The back and forth continues
Thursday, Sep 3, 2009 - Posted by Rich Miller
* The Quinn campaign is continuing to bash Dan Hynes’ tax and budget proposals…
[John Kupper] of the Quinn campaign dismissed Hynes’ ideas as playing politics. “In a very real sense, this is a proposal that was put together for the benefit of a political campaign and not a serious effort to address the state’s fiscal problems,” he said. “It’s a lot of rehashed proposals that came right out of the political playbook 101. The question is better addressed to Dan Hynes as to how he is going to enact these things, since he’s pretty much been on the sidelines as these budget issues have been debated.”
But if you take a look at Hynes’ entire plan, and not rely on media soundbites, it’s not bad at all. Read the whole thing.
Political? Yes, of course. Serious? Well, it’s at least as serious as Quinn’s budget plans, which pretty much all failed.
* Hynes has a calculator on his campaign website to compare what your taxes would be with his income tax proposal, which, he claims “puts the Middle Class first, with Gov. Quinn’s proposal.
*Taxes may vary based on an individual’s ability to qualify for certain exemptions and credits.
Here’s the basic outline, but keep in mind that the higher tax rates only apply to income above the minimums below…
Household income –
under $200,000 would stay at the 3 percent income tax rate.
between $200,000 and $300,000 would be taxed at 3.5 percent
between $300,000 and $500,000 would be taxed at 5.5 percent
between $500,000 and $1 million would be taxed at 7 percent
over $1 million would be taxed at 7.5 percent
* There’s been a lot of discussion about how “boring” Hynes is and how that may be an advantage in a year when voters could be tired of flashy, dishonest, incompetent leaders. Kristen McQueary notes that this is not a new schtick for the Hynes family…
Perhaps Hynes can mimic a television commercial his father used during his 1987 run for Chicago mayor. In it, Tom Hynes talked about his reputation as boring. The camera panned to his family where Dan Hynes, then a University of Notre Dame student, pretended to be sleeping.
* Meanwhile, Gov. Quinn is “acting gubernatorial” by cutting a very big ribbon today. From the governor’s public schedule…
Governor Pat Quinn will join local, state and federal officials to break ground on a transportation hub in Joliet.
WHO: Governor Quinn. U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, U.S. Rep. Debbie Halvorson (D-Crete), Joseph Szabo, Administrator, Federal Railroad Administration, Sen. A.J. Wilhelmi (D-Joliet), Larry Walsh, Will County Executive, Jim Young, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Union Pacific Corporation. Michael Mullen, Chief Executive Officer, CenterPoint Properties
That capital bill is a political goldmine. But it has its downsides. From a Pantagraph editorial…
Hey, we just found an easy place to cut $40 million from the state’s capital budget.
It’s the $40 million allocated to build a branch of Chicago State University on the west side of Chicago — money that was not even requested by the university. That “surprise” doesn’t give us a lot of confidence in the rest of the budget.
* Related…
* Luechtefeld sees hope for Illinois GOP after Blago scandal
* Hynes plan: Let voters decide tax on new income tax structure
* Quinn Gives Hynes a Harsh Welcome to Governor’s Race
* Comptroller Dan Hynes launches bid to be governor
- A Moderate's Moderate - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 11:18 am:
I think this “Where was Dan Hynes during the budget battle” is a good argument. It bolsters Quinn’s position by showing he wasnt a shrinking violet and helps deflect a little of the leadership attacks Hynes has been lobbing. That being said, Hynes’ attacks of flip-flopping have momentum of their own with lots of articles citing the criticism about the governor. Not many articles asking where Hynes was during the budget debate.
- CircularFiringSquad - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 11:20 am:
Actually west side legislators have talked about a Chicago State campus for some time….Guess Pantagraphh might be trying to preserve ISU goldmine.
Luetenfeld is a hoot. Blasts Blagoof ( don’t we all) and then sez his $31 billion capital plan was a great achievement. Sounds like great bipartisan cooperation Senator Dave. Kinda hard to rip Quinn and Madigan for that one.
- dave - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 11:23 am:
Political? Yes, of course. Serious? Well, it’s at least as serious as Quinn’s budget plans, which pretty much all failed.
It would be more serious if he actually addressed what he would do about the budget now rather in than in two years when the State may finally have the authority to institute a progressive income tax.
Hynes’ plan simply doesn’t address the current budget issues. It may address the plans down the road, if he can get both a ballot initiative and a tax bill passed, but the help from that is a long ways away.
- cassandra - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 11:24 am:
I continue to be surprised at Quinn and Co’s obsession with taxing the middle class to get the additional money necessary (we’re told-it’s still fuzzy on the details) to keep running state government. It wouldn’t take much tweaking to made his proposed tax much less regressive. But he’s sticking to his regressive proposal like glue. Why is it so important to hit up folks who are barely paying the bills.
I can understand differences in opinion on how the money, once obtained, should be allocated, but Quinn’s obvious lack of interest in the economic lives of ordinary middle class workers suggests that he really isn’t very interested in the welfare of a large portion of the electorate.
- Rich Miller - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 11:29 am:
===It would be more serious if he actually addressed what he would do about the budget now rather in than in two years===
Actually, he does. Go read the thing.
- wordslinger - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 11:32 am:
I’d forgotten that Tom Hynes ran for mayor in 1987.
That was a wild one. First, Harold beat Byrne in a close Dem primary. Then, Hynes and Fast Eddie, running on third party tickets, carved each other up but good before the general. Hynes made noise by claiming Fast Eddie had met and gotten the support Joe Ferriola, the Outfit boss. A few days later, Hynes dropped out.
- A Moderate's Moderate - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 11:33 am:
“But he’s sticking to his regressive proposal like glue. Why is it so important to hit up folks who are barely paying the bills.”
Cassandra, if you remember Quinn’s original proposal included exemptions and EITC increases that many dems later made him give up because of the lost revenue. And maybe you should revisit the Illinois Constitution because we have a non-graduated income tax thus any tax will hurt the lower and middle class the most. You can argue he has compromised on his proposal but you cant argue that he has been for a regressive tax (he opposed the gas tax for the very same reason).
- wordslinger - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 11:35 am:
Isn’t John Kupper from Axelrod’s old crew? They used to be tight with Quinn.
- siriusly - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 11:35 am:
I personally like Hynes plan. Everyone knows progressive is better. I also think he’s plenty serious. Quinn can get into trouble real fast if he starts calling Hynes political and gimmicky - he’s the one who campaigned with Blago for 6 years.
- VanillaMan - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 11:45 am:
Illinois’ Lost Decade
Since Comptroller Dan Hynes was first elected to statewide office in Illinois, the State has experienced a marked decline in every fiscal measurement regarding it’s economic health. The Comptroller issued warnings and concerns regarding this declining situation throughout his decade-long time in office. Yet the decline continued, didn’t it?
Why? The Comptroller’s own political party, composed of his own Chicago neighbors didn’t care what Dan Hynes’ said. The Comptroller’s endorced 2002 Gubernatorial candidate was elected, also didn’t care what Dan Hynes’ said. The relationship between the Democrat governor and his fellow Democrat comptroller degraded into a shouting match, because the Governor didn’t care what the Comptroller said, and when Rod Blagojevich stood up to Dan Hynes - Hynes folded.
Now, the comptroller who has been ignored during Illinois’ Lost Decade of economic growth and government services, wants to become governor. The man who backed down when confronted by Rod Blagojevich when their views collided, now wants us to know that he was right all along, or something like that.
But hold on sir! We need a real leader. Not another guy who wants to climb the political ladder because he itches for promotion. Not another guy who watched and failed during Illinois’ Lost Decade. The comptroller who now wants to be governor was ignored by his own party , by a government lead by his own party that is filled with his own Chicago neighbors.
Mr. Hynes has proven any ability to lead Illinois, and he has failed repeatedly throughout Illinois’ Lost Decade.
Thanks Dan - but no.
- VanillaMan - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 11:45 am:
I didn’t mean that to be bolded! Go ahead and delete it!
- The Doc - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 11:53 am:
I also like Hynes’ plan, at least on paper. The casino portion of it is troubling, and considering the reaction to video poker, it’s difficult to see how there will be enough political will to greatly expand gambling by creating at least 2 more casinos in the Chicago area.
- Downstater - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 11:58 am:
Hynes plan will appeal to the populist, but it will fail as high income taxpayers shift income to avoid state taxes or move out of the state.
This failed theory of increase progressive tax rates has been proven wrong time and time again.
Cut spending, change pension plan benefits, and reduce state employee benefit programs.
- wordslinger - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 11:59 am:
–the State has experienced a marked decline in every fiscal measurement regarding it’s economic health–
What does that even mean? Fiscal measurement?
In a global economy, a state office holder, or state government for that matter, means bupkis. I guess you believe Dillard is going to wave his magic wand and “create jobs” by cutting “red tape.”
- 4 percent - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 12:05 pm:
It would be nice if it works. Enter $500,000 and see the tax bills…then enter $500,100 which should be a new tax rate. It still uses the old rate which makes Hynes plan still look better.
Plus there needs to be an acknowlegdment that 80 percent of businesses pay at the individual rate so this is a hike on businesses and consumers.
- cassandra - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 12:19 pm:
Moderate–
In what way did the folks in his own party force him to give up the more regressive aspects of his tax increase? Did they tie him up in his chair and cut off his phones?
Part of his job is to make the case–not back off whenever somebody raises an objection. Oh wait, he does that all the time.
- Rich Miller - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 12:24 pm:
===It would be nice if it works.===
It may not be calibrated for that low of a change. I entered 501K - just for practice, of course - and it worked.
- dupage dan - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 12:44 pm:
The whole democratic party stood by in the “lost decade” and presided over the “hole” mess. Dan Hynes could possibly claim his office had minimal power to counteract RodB and the steam roller that was the legislature controlled by MJM and Senate boss Emil Jones. However, he can’t claim independence from the mess either. The party in power when the s#!+ hits the fan is tossed out. That’s the physics of politics.
- Scooby - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 12:45 pm:
That calculator is somewhat disingenuous. The Quinn plan provided significant increases in the exemptions that the Hynes calcualtor doesn’t factor in. Instead they provide a disclaimer that “taxes may vary based on an individual’s ability to qualify for certain exemptions and credits”. So the Quinn plan for a $60,000 family has a farily significant difference in the amount of tax for a family of 5 versus a family of 2, and both numbers would be different than what the Hynes calculator says it is.
- PalosParkBob - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 12:57 pm:
What a great idea Hynes has for Illinois!
Illinois currently ranks 48th among the states in economic environment, and we have double digit unemployment.
This is despite having one of the highest number of college educated workers in the nation and incredible agricultural, water, university, and transportation resources that should make us one of the most attractive places to build and grow a business.
The vast majority of new jobs in our service industry economy come from small businesses with entrepreneurs in the income brackets that Hynes wants to punish for working hard and being successful.
Drive out those who create wealth and jobs for the common folk to fund an ever increasing entitlement and patronage driven public sector.
Sounds like an “on message” Dem plan to me!
- A Moderate's Moderate - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 1:01 pm:
Cassandra, you are right no one “forced” him to give up his proposal. It was his choice to compromise with the leaders. However, you didnt counter my criticism to your comment. In fact, you argued against yourself. How can you say Quinn changes his mind all the time AND still argue he is “sticking to his regressive proposals like glue.”
His initial budget proposal was not regressive. Doubling the exemption and EITC credits is not regressive. In fact, if you can find another way under our current constitution to make the income tax more progressive than Quinn’s initial proposal i think you should run for Governor too.
It’s true Quinn can be criticized for changing his position but wouldnt he be called “stubborn” or “bull-headed” like Blago if he didnt?
- Eastside - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 1:13 pm:
Calculator wasn’t working for me either. I entered in $600,000 in income and it showed the 7% rate for Hynes’ plan. However, the amount of the tax was only $27,500 which is only a 4.58% tax, not a 7% tax. A 7% tax would be $42k on $600k of income. Just an observation….unless I’m missing something.
- Rich Miller - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 1:15 pm:
===Calculator wasn’t working for me either===
Please, pay attention. The higher rates don’t apply to all income. They only apply to income above a certain level, like 200K, etc.
Again, pay attention. It’s not that difficult.
- Bubs - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 1:28 pm:
I am a bit put off by the double talk in his plan. He decries a $10.5 billion hole next year (and I am fearful that figure may be low), and proposes all these cuts and savings, yet also states that he would “limit” spending growth to expected revenue projections. So he is cutting on one hand, yet projecting “reasonable” spending increases on the other? That makes little sense, but it is a political campaign document.
The state budget has grown PLENTY in the last 8 or 9 years, something like 30%. There is a gigantic pension deficit that is not going away, despite the best efforts of a range of gutless politicians to ignore it. We need to go to a zero growth budget, and throw all new revenue in the maw of the black hole the state government has created.
- LisleMike - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 1:29 pm:
Can someone explain how it is paying my “fair share” to pay a higher percentage tax because I make more money per year? Do I drive on roads more than those earning less? Do I use social services more than those earning less? Do I “take” more from government because I earn more?
If we are talking “fair” why do government employees get raises when we are stagnant or at reduced pay or taking furlough time? The whole idea of progressive taxes stinks from a logical standpoint, whomever is proposing it.
- DuPage Dem - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 1:48 pm:
Where was Hynes when Quinn pushed for the income tax referendum in 2004? Quinn was out on his own pushing for a hike to make the system fairer. It never went anywhere cause no one was brave enough to stick their neck out with him, including Hynes. It seems awfully (politically) convenient for Johnny Come Lately to come out for it now.
- Rich Miller - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 1:49 pm:
===It seems awfully (politically) convenient for Johnny Come Lately to come out for it now. ===
How so? The political climate for Democrats was far more favorable in 2004 than it is now. Far.
- Eastside - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 1:50 pm:
I said I might be missing something and I was. I usually trust Hynes on #’s. However, the website with the calculator really ought to make that more clear. Because all it has is 7%=27500. And that’s just not right. Presentation could use an improvement. It’s not that difficult.
- Okay Then... - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 1:51 pm:
VM–
I am not sure you are being fair to Hynes. He did more than perhaps most in retrospect, even if he did not go all the way and go for the jugular. I’m sure you know that the Dems operate on a Don’t Make No Waves system. So, is it possible that he was told to back off? The Speaker has said time and again how he let Rod run in 2006 because he did not want the Repubs to regain power. Just sayin’.
Moderate–
Pat Quinn is not going to be able to shake the flip-flopping thing and he has no one to blame but himself for that. Speaking of what’s sticking to whom and what isn’t, was Pat Quinn’s poll results from yesterday from a recycled poll? Some of it seemed like the Rasmussen poll from a couple of weeks ago, as well as polling conducted earlier this year circa late January or early February. The recent Rasmussen poll had Quinn looking good for the most part, but being in serious trouble on his push for the tax increase. It was interesting that the media did not put much stock in yesterday’s polling data released by the Quinn Campaign. Again, just sayin,’ ya know.
- steve schnorf - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 1:51 pm:
LM, since so many of our taxes are flat regardless of income (eg, sales, soc security, etc., it would be very hard for someone in Illinois earning $200,00, or even $100,000 to pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than a person earning say, $30 or 40,000.
- Niles Township - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 2:11 pm:
It was interesting that the media did not put much stock in yesterday’s polling data released by the Quinn Campaign.
——————–
Channel 2 not only mentioned the poll, but had a whole graphic up showing the percentages, on its 6 pm news.
- VanillaMan - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 2:13 pm:
VM–
I am not sure you are being fair to Hynes.
No. I am not. He is running for governor, and if he expects fairness, he is in the wrong business, isn’t he?
What would you have done if you were comptroller during Illinois’ Lost Decade? Would you have done what Dan Hynes did? Or would you have tried to be effective in steering political discussions and policy making, within your own political party ruling Illinois, or would you just call it a day at 5PM each night - then run as an “I told you so” candidate?
Dan Hynes’ situation is similar to the situation facing all Illinois Democrats. They expect everyone to help put out the fires they started, ignored and fed - then they want us all to just forget about it. Blame it on their governor being somehow “crazy” or something - an aberration that has no reflection on them.
Hynes and his ilk want us to just keep electing them as though they have no accountability, no responsibility, and no power to have any impact during the previous Lost Decade…
well, if Dan Hynes wants us to think this, then we shall accommodate him…but those are no qualifications for being a governor. Especially a governor that will face the clean-up awaiting whoever goes into Springfield.
If these guys don’t think I’m being fair - just wait until this time next year. They’ll be looking back at these comments like they are kisses from the mouths of innocent babes.
- Rich Miller - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 2:17 pm:
===the media did not put much stock in yesterday’s polling data ===
Media outlets by tradition in this state usually only run their own polls. They even ignore independent polls. It’s a weird habit.
- Okay Then... - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 2:25 pm:
Yeah but, the media ran with the Rasmussen poll from a couple of weeks ago.
- 3 beers to springfield - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 2:30 pm:
Iowa has a graduated income tax between 3.5 and 9% compared to Illinois’straight 3%. Residential growth in the Iowa Quad Cities has far outpaced residential growth in the Illinois Quad Cities. Income tax rate is far down the list of considerations when choosing a place to live compared to quality of schools, property tax rate (much higher in Illinois because of all the EAV exemptions the state has bestowed and exponential increases in pension payments for fire and police), and confidence in state government (I trust I don’t have to explain that one).
- Okay Then... - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 3:00 pm:
VM–
You clearly have a beef with Hynes. Personal? I’m not 100 percent in love with his budget proposal either. Actually, I would like to see a republican win the governor’s office. Too much of one thing is not good.
NT–
You got me there. I stand corrected. I don’t watch channel 2, but does anybody really? Robert Feder of the Sun-Times is no more, so I don’t know what Channel 2’s most recent ratings look like in all fairness.
Hynes did not get bashed by the newspaper editorialists for his campaign kick-off proposal, at least not yet anyway. I guess if it had been so bad he would have? Maybe they are still digesting it all and will have something by the end of week or weekend? To all of my republican friends, taxes are going to have to be raised, sorry. The fiscal crisis is too huge to simply cut our way out.
- wordslinger - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 3:02 pm:
Hynes got buried on the TV news in Chicago. It was all Olympics.
- VanillaMan - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 3:22 pm:
VM–
You clearly have a beef with Hynes.
Ummm - beef!
If Hynes was beef, he’d be too scrawny for steaks. That is why I’m doing what I can to turn him into hamburger.
I appreciate every person who runs for office. They tie a target on their backs and then crow like a demented rooster in order to get attention. It is our duty to wake up and aim for that target, right?
We all have a steak in this! (pun intended!) So every statewide candidate has to gather as much support from the center as possible before there are too many arrows in their target.
Dan Hynes wants to be governor. I want to ask him, “OH YEAH?! Wher’ve you been buddy?” He wants to paint himself as the guy whose is now showing up to my house to give me CPR after sitting in the ambulance for the past ten years!
I’m doing my job as a voter, imo.
- Niles Township - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 3:37 pm:
wordslinger - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 3:02 pm:
Hynes got buried on the TV news in Chicago. It was all Olympics.
—————————–
WS: As I posted yesterday, it was amateur hour for Hynes to stage his announcement on the day that the Olympic report was coming out. It was not a sceret as to when the report was to be made public. I think Channel 5 had at least 2 commercial breaks before they breifly mentioned Hynes on the 10 pm.
- Rubbernecker - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 4:21 pm:
VM –
I seem to recall Dan Hynes being one of the most vocal critics of Blagojevich. He lambasted him for his ill-fated Rx purchase and was always warning the state of its impending fiscal crisis. To rewrite your analogy, he was like the doctor who told you to eat better and exercise before your heart attack put you in the ambulance.
- VanillaMan - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 4:25 pm:
To rewrite your analogy, he was like the doctor who told you to eat better and exercise before your heart attack put you in the ambulance.
Yeah - I can agree with that! But would that qualify the doctor to marry your wife?
- DuPage Dem - Thursday, Sep 3, 09 @ 5:51 pm:
It just seems like this is clearly a political move, given that Quinn supported this measure in the past and currently has put forth the only solution to our fiscal crisis. Now here comes Hynes, in one of the few strong positions he’s taken in his political career, reframing an old plan as a solution, when in fact it’s not a solution to the current problem. I’m skeptical he’s going to be able to communicate it as a bold leadership move.