Three metro-east legislators want the suspension of all state funding and contracts for the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, also known as ACORN.
State Rep. Ron Stephens, R-Highland, and Sens. Dave Luechtefeld, R-Okawville, and Kyle McCarter, R-Lebanon, have sent a letter to Gov. Pat Quinn, asking that the attorney general’s office conduct an investigation of ACORN before the group receives any more state funding. […]
“In light of the multiple news reports exposing ACORN’s questionable behavior, as well as video evidence showing ACORN employees offering tax assistance to open brothels and tips on how to launder money into a congressional campaign account, Illinois government needs to take a good, long look at the business it does with this organization,” Stephens said. “We need to see what this group is really up to and whether or not any contracts and connections they have with the state are worthy of the use of public money.”
Stephens said the organization has received grants from various state agencies. Stephens said he and some other legislators are still gathering information on how much money the organization has received.
At issue are a series of secretly filmed videos at ACORN offices in Baltimore, Washington, D.C., and New York City showing employees answering questions from a pair of 20-somethings posing as a prostitute and pimp (actually they’re an amateur filmmaker/MBA student and a college journalism student). The duo sought advice on how to get help buying a home in which to run a sex ring for underage girls from El Salvador, all while dodging taxes on the whole illicit endeavor. Boy, did they get lessons in how to lie and cheat.
You’re not a hooker, but a “freelance performing artist” on loan documents, the girl is told in Baltimore. In Washington, she’s advised to set up a fake company and become an “independent consultant” for it. Bury your profits in the back yard, you don’t have to pay taxes. Claim the teen sex slaves as dependents for the tax credit.
* Sens. Dick Durbin and Roland Burris were among just seven US Senators voting “No” on a bill to cut off certain ACORN funding. Burris showed he’s still spry when a Fox News reporter tried to get his reaction. The video shows just as much about Burris as it does about Fox…
Sen. Dick Durbin explains that ACORN has helped more than 100,000 families obtain homes. Sen. Roland Burris… says he didn’t want to pass judgment based on “a few isolated incidents.”
But Jackson said she agreed with Illinois’ two current senators who were among a handful of senators who voted against a proposal to strip the controversial community organizing group ACORN of federal funding.
* As always with cable TV meltdowns, you have to take a look behind the hype. And at least some of the hype is just that, apparently…
But when the Press-Enterprise newspaper caught up with ACORN employee Tresa Kaelke, she told the newspaper she was messing with the filmmakers and making it all up.
“They were clearly playing with me," she said "I decided to shock them as much as they were shocking me." Reports the newspaper: "Since she claimed on the video to have killed her husband, two San Bernardino police homicide detectives interviewed her at the office Tuesday. Police said they have been in contact with Kaelke's former husbands and the homicide claims do not appear accurate.
In Philadelphia, Neil Herrmann, ACORN’s lead organizer there, said the couple was kicked out after talking to a counselor “for a few minutes.” They called to set up an appointment the day before the visit.
“At first when the counselor came,” she wasn’t going to take them back,” Herrmann said. “But they had made an appointment. When he mentioned the 13-year-old girls, they were asked to leave.”
O’Keefe disputed Herrmann’s account, saying “we talked to them for more than a few minutes.”
ACORN emailed a copy of a Philadelphia police report dated July 24 to The Post to verify its account that police were called and the couple was shown the door. O’Keefe is named on the report.
Still, there are some very real problems with at least local branches of that group. I’d like to see if any of the legislators have any proof or allegations of Illinois wrongdoing, however.
* Related…
* ACORN Announces Major Steps to Address Issues Raised by Videos
* Florida may do battle with ACORN - The state of Florida could take its own action against ACORN, a legislative leader said Thursday, as the firestorm over revelations about the group’s activities grew in intensity.
* Louisiana governor bans state contracts with ACORN
* ACORN backlash expected to have few effects on Sacramento branch
* Schwarzenegger Urges Attorney General to Investigate ACORN
* ACORN vows to keep fighting after video controversy: The Midwest director of ACORN flew into Detroit on Wednesday, vowing to continue the group’s advocacy despite a white-hot controversy over a video showing two employees telling a couple posing as a prostitute and pimp how to cheat on taxes.
91 Comments
- Small Town Liberal - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 10:21 am:
I know this isn’t really an Illinois issue, but are we going to end contracts with Blackwater for alleged killing of innocent civilians? Or how about KBR for doing shoddy work resulting in American soldiers being electrocuted? I’m not excusing these former ACORN employee’s behavior, but why is ACORN held to a higher standard than our military contractors? Oh wait, they register poor people to vote, nevermind.
Can’t defend the indefensible. Acorn obviously has some fundamental problems within its management. The problem is that once all this funding is pulled, the group is going to die. Despite this controversy, they do an awful lot of good work for the poor.
I see a reconstitution of the group and name change in their future.
I think I saw the federales had given them $55 million over 15 years. Not exactly AIG money, but enough to keep the Fox types outraged. Whether or not ACORN is federally funded, I think the Republic is safe.
It’ll be interesting to see what the state’s into them for.
Why didn’t those same legislators make demands about the Blackwater camp in Illinois?
Blackwater has killed innocent people while continuing to take in much more government money than ACORN.
PS - ACORN has many different functions. A lot of the gov’t grants go to ACORN’s work for helping low-income people with home ownership. I don’t see how preventing low-income citizens from getting help with purchasing a home is a “fundamental problem”.
RxRon Must have been on a real toot yesterday.
BTW while the ever amusing Belleville News D failed to mention it. I checked and cannot seem to locate any state dough going to the Association of Community Organization for Reform NOW.
A small point that should not disrupt Rx Ron’s rant
Word, Minnestota’s GOP governor Pawlenty (possible 2012 Pres. candidate) just fired off a letter to his state agencies demanding (”Demanding I say!”) that all state funding for ACORN in Minnesota be immediately halted.
…There is no state funding for ACORN in Minnesota.
It’ll be interesting to see if the story is similar here in Illinois. Maybe there are some state-administered Federal grants…
But bottom line is it seems like hypocritical grand-standing by the GOP given that ACORN receives relatively small funding from the Feds whereas groups like Halliburton, Blackwater (Xe), etc. have been literally given much more and done much worse with that money — including electrocuting our soldiers with faulty barracks wiring, feeding GIs rancid meat, and more.
I try to avoid standard talking points Rich, but you’ve got to admit it’s a good point. Acorn has huge problems, but they are being held to a different standard.
Many more examples of the conservatives’ hypocrisy where those came from Rich.
Back to Illinois now.
- State Sen. Clay Davis - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 10:37 am:
$55 mil over 15 years is chump change. I mean seriously, low-income housing is not exactly a power base or lucrative business.
I’m interested to see where this strategy leads for R’s and why they’re bothering. Is it just to attack Obama’s community organizing roots? Attack the weak link in the coalition?
Capt. Fax:
Whaz wrong with Talking BlackWater?
They were the kind of community organizers that warmed the heard ot the Czar Rove/Cheney war machine right?
We have taped evidence that more than a few ACORN offices across the US violated federal laws. Trying to defend the indefensible act of child prostitution by fingerpointing is simply unacceptable. Saying that since another organization is rumored to have broken laws yet recieve federal funds, misses the entire point here.
ACORN is now acknowledging what is being reported. ACORN itself knew about these issues before they were reported. ACORN themselves has been forced into doing an investigation after they denied all the allegations.
These basic facts have caused the swift reactions we have witnessed in the US Congress. The current US Congress is sypathetic to ACORN, yet voted the way they did based on the facts clearly shown. They did not want to discontinue funding ACORN if there was room for suspicion. There is none. They are clearly corrupt.
You have to take a stand here. They have crossed the line. They deserve the consequences of their actions. This isn’t a conservative attack, or a Fox News story when US Congresspeople from all ideological viewpoints, both pro and con, say enough is enough.
Can the politics. The case is closed. It is there.
Rich-
Joe Conason has done some very good columns on ACORN.
This line from his most recent piece sums it up:
“Perhaps the congressional investigation now demanded by some Republican politicians would be a useful exercise, if conducted impartially. A fair investigation might begin to dispel some of the wild mythology promoted by right-wing media outlets.”
How many people’s fertilizer detectors are going off by this video? Really, how plausible is it? I do not find it plausible. Yes, the literal content is there, but does it make sense in the real world?
If we had video of Blackwater officials telling their people to deliberatly cause deaths, then perhaps you can compare. We have ACORN on video, in more than a few locations, a more than a few people, deliberatly fomenting the sexual crime of child prostitution.
If such a video of Blackwater existed - they’d be history. So, I’m going to even debate the point some bloggers are attempting to make - I am pointing out that comparing ACORN’s situation to Blackwater’s isn’t a decent comparison.
Come up with a better one, please.
- Small Town Liberal - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 10:57 am:
- They did not want to discontinue funding ACORN if there was room for suspicion. There is none. They are clearly corrupt. -
Thats some logic there. So politicians never cut ties with anything just because it is recieving negative press and could be damaging? I guess you have a pretty high opinion of the integrity of our current Congress.
Rich, if you do some digging you may find that ACORN no longer exists in Illinois. The most recent date I can find is 2005. So it appears these Republican attack dogs may be barking at the wind, just like in Minnesota.
The actions of a few individual employees of a large organization should not determine the fate of the entire organization. ACORN does not have an official policy defending child prostitution, pimps, tax evasion, or any of the other ridiculous accusations. “…more than a few ACORN offices…” didn’t violate any laws. Three employees were illegally taped giving less than savory advice to walk in strangers. Their stupidity on the heavily edited tapes should not determine ACORN’s fitness to receive federal or state grants. Go ahead and investigate, provide oversight and demand accountability, but a couple of unverified tapes by right wing nuts should not be the deciding factor on anything. The US Congress was pandering with their votes to defund them without investigating and I am ashamed of them.
And if the ACORN response that their members were joking with these people (even if dark humor) who were so clearly over-the-top prove true … now who needs to “can the politics”?
Moreover, the organizations I mentioned are not “rumored” to have done something bad. The evidence of their faulty wiring and random gunfire into a crowd of innocents is right there, six feet under the ground.
How can you so easily dismiss the deaths of US soldiers or innocent women and children as mere “rumors”, Vanilla, even while ignoring the very real possibility that the ACORN matter is in fact isolated and perhaps even taken out of context (given how quickly the conservatives spread their own talking points on the issue)?
Returning this to Illinois — have these 3 Republicans offered any evidence of state funding AND any evidence of wrong-doing in relation to the hypothetical funding?
Rich is right.
If you will be trying to claim some kind of moral equivalence with Blackwater - you are wasting your time. If you want to protect the innocents, then how could you protect an organization that helps criminals get child prostitutes? Ridiculous.
And I am obviously not alone or even ideological here - nearly the entire freakin’ US Congress went from embracing ACORN to throwing them out the window. That doesn’t happen without reason.
You want to think it is just politics? Of course you would, wouldn’t you? After all, that is all ACORN ever was, wasn’t it? A political group funded by political friends. Naturally, when they had to stand up for what it is they do in the real world - their political friends would run. So there was really nothing there - there, to begin with.
We have a real need for an ACORN organization. Now start building a real one that isn’t committing voter fraud, is having groups within their organization arrested, and a real one that doesn’t help those who sexually abuse our children. OK?
Nobody sexually abused any children and you know it. Are you auditioning for FOX News? If you keep lying over and over again maybe somebody will believe it. Just throw it against the wall and see what sticks. Typical.
The public revelations about faux voter registrations in several states which came through ACORN, coupled with allegations that certain ACORN offices may have facilitated mortgage fraud, coupled with the current scandal have given some taxpayers and apparently a lot of people in government the heebie jeebies. My gut tells me that the census bureau would not have cut bait– and both houses of congress would not have voted as quickly, forcefully and bi-partisanly as they just did– if there were not serious additional suspected or already known (and perhaps soon to be made public or prosecuted) issues within ACORN. Still, if like bad apples some corrupt state ACORN operations have ruined it for other states’ ACORN operations which ARE clean and doing good work, it is too bad.
Vanilla
Don’t we have video of BlackWater blowing up folks? Does that count becuase they were part of the Czar Rove/Cheney Holy War on Terrorism.
Two wrongs don’t make a right
But it does demonstrate all sides have their mopes
ACORNs involvement with the CRA and CITICORP in the San Diego area is also of concern. While it can be debated that giving loans to illegal aliens wasn’t the cause of the housing bust, looking closer at the loans and the financial status of the borrowers indicates that bad loans were being given out to many who would never be eligible for loans with a more responsible lender. Corruption or just foolishness? Since ACORN isn’t at risk if the loans go bad where are the checks and balances here? ACORN got a lot of ’splainin to do. Time to reform the reformers.
Acorn should clean up its act. The videos speak volumns about the character of the employees and the lack of oversight by management.
My experience with representatives of ACORN in ST. Louis is they will do what they are told, as long as they get paid. There is little principled conviction for doing what is best for poor poeople.
It’s my understanding that there are currently no active ACORN chapters in Illinois, and no paid ACORN organizing staff. The office on W. Montrose has been shuttered for over a year.
Rich - there was quite a bit of coverage here in the Metro East last election cycle of voter registration fraud allegations involving ACORN workers. There has been at least one indictment involving an East St. Louis resident who filed false registrations in St. Louis. I am sure that is what is driving the Repub interest in this area.
Vanilla Man: “And I am obviously not alone or even ideological here - nearly the entire freakin’ US Congress went from embracing ACORN to throwing them out the window. That doesn’t happen without reason.”
Or at least without media-induced frenzy aimed at a target that doesn’t have the clout to protect itself…
–It’s my understanding that there are currently no active ACORN chapters in Illinois, and no paid ACORN organizing staff. The office on W. Montrose has been shuttered for over a year.–
We’re saved!
State Sen. Clay Davis: It took me a couple of minutes to place your handle. Very funny — however, I’m not sure that’s the persona you want to take to defend a group like ACORN!
=Or at least without media-induced frenzy aimed at a target that doesn’t have the clout to protect itself=
Do you really expect us to believe that ACORN never had any clout? Really?
Well, their clout left the building for a reason. You can’t defend the indefensible. Even with the hyperbole reduced to a mere fraction what we see, hear and read is appalling.
EC, one of the problems with this voter registration stuff is that when a group does voter registration it is required by law to hand over all the registration applications. That’s to make sure that a group won’t register somebody and toss the form out - so the individual thinks she’s registered and really isn’t.
In other words, a group pays for each voter registration, some people are crooks and do it for the cash and make up names, but the groups can’t hold back Mickey Mouse’s card because that would be illegal.
In ACORN’s case in other states, this has been used as proof that ACORN is corrupt, when it probably isn’t.
El Conquistador and others, several of the allegations involving voter registration fraud (not vote fraud) came as a result of freelancers which were contracted by ACORN to register voters. ACORN was apparently paying some of these folks per newly registered voter which led to the freelancers getting greedy and filing false registrations.
ACORN has the responsibility to provide better oversight of even freelancers, but it’s not exactly like ACORN was purposefully setting out to get Mickey Mouse and Batman registered to vote.
But, as others have noticed, perhaps because the group can be so easily connected to Pres. Obama conservatives have been busy using any instance of impropriety by anything related to ACORN, real or imagined, as a blunt instrument with which to swing wildly at partisan opponents.
Don’t shoot the messenger Rich! I’m just saying that media coverage is probably what got those R’s in this region worked up when ACORN hit the headlines again.
Some posit that the voter fraud issue can be addressed by requiring people to present valid id when voting. I just read, however, that a Judge has struck down Indianas strict law re id because the state doesn’t require id for absentee voting. What I do understand is that ACORN learned of some of these problems and self reported. At least they may have gotten that one right.
Rob, I used it too (at the top of the comments) and I assure you, no right wing talking points will ever come from this keyboard, other than for mocking purposes. It’s an obvious phrase in this circumstance.
- Small Town Liberal - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:46 am:
- In other words, a group pays for each voter registration, some people are crooks and do it for the cash and make up names, but the groups can’t hold back Mickey Mouse’s card because that would be illegal. -
Rich is exactly right. Its not like those made up names are going to go vote. I can understand that we don’t want tax dollars going to these people for making up fake voters, but the argument stops there. Any attempt to accuse ACORN of fixing an election with voter fraud is unfounded.
I know CC. Tough to relay a joke through the comment postings…
Although I would offer that rather than defending the indefensible focusing on what may just be some jokes made in really poor taste and some self-admitted voter registration inconsistencies is a way to at least take any sort of attention away from the indefensible.
It’s literally a smoke-and-mirrors means of avoiding defending the indefensible, as VM illustrates twice above.
What is the metric used to measure “success” with ACORN receiving state subsidy?
ACORN has many active corporations in Illinois. I don’t know if any of them are receiving funding from the State of Illinois. They are.
active
ACORN Housing Corporation, Inc.
ACORN Affordable Loans, LLC
The ACORN Institute
inactive/revoked
Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now
ACORN Housing of Illinois
Citizens Services, Inc.
I don’t know why these legislators do not have specific data to cite if they want to cut off funding.
Apparently Fox News conducted a three hour interview with ACORN founder Wade Rathke. Rathke was forced to step down from ACORN last summer as the revelation of his role in covering up his brother Dale’s embezzlement emerged. Rathke apparently tells FNC that before he stepped down he encouraged ACORN to get out of the “voter registration” business.
This is the area where ACORN has produced its worst press nationally. But it is also where they produced their best press locally in Illinois. Barack Obama steered that effort in 1992 with Project Vote.
P&P you should not have had to produce an identification. Matching your signature to the signature with your registration file should suffice (the big book or box of cards the election judges have).
The rational behind not requiring id is that it amounts to a poll tax since drivers licenses and state id cards cost a fee to obtain.
In Indiana, nuns were turned away last year because they didn’t have id cards.
ACORN has some problems. Congress voted. There are hundreds of more important issues facing the country that need attention. This is the smallest one. Why all the noise about ACORN? Why is the GOP so focued on this?
I hope Congress moves on to more pressing business. I’m sure Fox News won’t.
Rich and Rob: ACORN has admitted that they have paid canvassers to register voters using quotas to measure “pass or fail” employment standards. In other words, the canvassers are paid by the hour, but ACORN establishes their own metric quota in order to test if the employee is working or not.
Here’s a link to a story about ACORN’s political director in Nevada who just plead guilty. http://is.gd/3q2ag
I agree with 47th Ward. Activist Republicans seem stuck in a groove picking hot button issues and working them to death. They also seem to be less concerned with facts than appearances, exhibit A, the “pimp” video.
=The rational behind not requiring id is that it amounts to a poll tax since drivers licenses and state id cards cost a fee to obtain.=
The State will presently give a free photo ID to people over the age of 65 or persons with a disability. I’m certain another exemption can be provided if there are others unable to afford the $5, $10, or $20.
Brennan starts to point out some of the problems with this discussion. ACORN as discussed by most people isn’t one entity. ACORN is primarily two organizations nationally. One is the housing corporation which is the one that receives most of the tax funds for tasks such as mortgage counseling. They do great work. In fact, they are an excellent resource against predatory lending and probably reduced the problems from the housing bust.
ACORN Housing is not implicated in any of the accusations and again is the primary beneficiary of any tax dollars in most locations. It would be a shame if they are cut off.
ACORN not housing has been undergoing a fairly radical leadership change that started in 2008 after numerous management problems. Mostly their problems are that of incompetence.
Saint Louis ACORN–an incompetent bunch of nitwits as I’ve ever seen, has consistently not monitored their voter registration workers and until they changed their local leadership, had numerous scandals of ACORN workers turning in false voting applications. These false applications aren’t designed to get fake voters on the rolls, they are designed to get the canvassers extra pay. Mickey Mouse isn’t voting regardless of whether a voter registration application is turned in or not. More recently the Saint Louis branch has worked with the St. Louis City Board of Elections to monitor their canvassers better and when someone does violate the law, work with the Board to prosecute the fraud. It’s a good sign and has been relatively successful in 2008.
Overall the organization is undergoing a complete transformation from a fairly inept organization it had devolved into a black hole of incompetence. They have made some initial promising changes at the national level, but obviously there are still local branches that are problems. Mostly ACORN isn’t funded by tax dollars despite all of the bizarre claims. They receive tax dollars for things like some outreach programs usually promoting federal programs and some services like the tax preparation and financial literacy work.
Would it be reasonable to defund them? Probably not in the sense that any bill banning a particular government contractor is a bad idea. Accountability legislation should be targeted to all government contractors and that is where the Blackwater comparison comes in. Blackwater has wrongly billed the government, been involved in illegal weapons trafficking in the US, and is currently under investigation for murder and other violations. The point, to me, is that with the accounting violations alone they are defrauding taxpayers far more than ACORN so why isn’t there a more general outrage at government contractors defrauding taxpayers. ACORN in some cases clearly needs to be held accountable, but it’s not rational to go after them and not fraud as a whole and starting with them is silly since their level of funding is very small compared to many contractors known to have committed the same or worse violations.
@ Rich Miller With all due respect, the recording does not tell you when the phone was disconnected. It could have been yesterday for all we know. As for the group leaving the state last year, I would note that the WGN Community Calendar, updated within the last six months if not more recently, details forclosure assistance available via Acorn’s Chicago office.
Or at least without media-induced frenzy aimed at a target that doesn’t have the clout to protect itself…
You mean that one story that appeared in the NYT over the past week? Charlie Gibson? You mean Pelosi? Or the one story that appeared on CBS? The formerly mainstream media ignored this until they couldn’t. ACORN has a lot of supporters, and often deservedly so. But instead of news, our enlightened journos tried to bury this because they wanted to.
ArchPundit: It is my understanding that the tapes were all made at ACORN Housing Corporation, Inc offices.
I think this is the bigger problem with ACORN. They have multiple not for profits that receive funding from federal, state, and county authorities. Some funds go to ACORN, some to ACORN Housing Corp, Inc, and some to The ACORN Institute.
Realistically, I don’t know how governments adequately monitor their grants. Not that this is a new dilemma, but it is going to be a bigger issue with just about every Treasury reporting lower revenues. People are going to start asking what they get for their tax money.
Local papers appear to be reaching out to the competent ACORN staff members that do not reflect the incendiary language of the ACORN CEO Bertha Lewis. These staffers answer questions and promote the organizations efforts. Ms. Lewis has taken to the airwaves to say ludicrous things such as “we’ve seen this behavior before. They used to lynch us” as she told Mark Thompson of the “Make it Plain” radio show on the Sirius Left channel. And ACORN is under attack because “it serves the black and brown community”.
It’s my understanding that ACORN seeks to meet the needs of ALL Americans that live in poverty. Wade Rathke may have screwed up, but his tone is far more inviting than that of Ms. Lewis.
ACORN’s problems are so bad that there is a group of dissidents that still believe in the best work of ACORN. They’re known as the “ACORN Eight”. Some of them of former Board members. One is a whistle blower named Anita Moncrief.
The NY Times reporter Stephanie Strom was reportedly working on a full story last October, but her coverage went dark after receiving instructions from her editors. It was soon thereafter that the McCain campaign started running attack ads on Obama for his relationship with ACORN in Illinois.
GCC: As ArchPundit says above in his pretty accurate post, ACORN Housing Corp. and ACORN are distinct entities. AHC came out of ACORN 15+ years ago, and kept an affiliation for several years, but now has completely separate governance, finances, and operations. It is a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organization - which ACORN never was - and one of the most widely respected housing counseling groups in Chicago and in the country. I can only hope that people as smart as the readers of CF will not continue to confuse the two.
===ArchPundit: It is my understanding that the tapes were all made at ACORN Housing Corporation, Inc offices.
No, though I was off–they were made at both.
It’s a fairly significant distinction between the two though. While they obviously have similar origins, the embezzlement and nearly all of the controversial issues with voting registration is with ACORN and not ACORN Housing.
And as someone who has done evaluation of government contractors, I could not agree more than there isn’t enough effective evaluation.
The ACORN Housing work though has been evaluated and evaluated fairly well in several locations and found to be a strong program. Nearly a decade ago, teh federal government imposed a stronger line of demarcation between the two agencies to ensure the feds weren’t funding political activities and it is probably the best thing that happened to ACORN Housing.
Also, as you kind of allude, ACORN Housing’s leadership has been far more accepting of responsibility for the videos than ACORN not Housing which did it’s typical rant.
This isn’t just a few employees gone wild. We now have videotaped evidence of ACORN employees in multiple locations across the country assisting people in setting up brothels for teenaged hookers. In the videos I saw, none of the employees appeared to be surprised that they received such a question. Frankly, I wonder if this doesn’t warrant RICO charges. I don’t think we can trust them with additional funds until they prove they are worthy. We don’t have extra money to fund criminal activities.
The defense that I was just stringing them along, I believe, has been tried by quite a few politicians and others indicted–I have yet to see it being terribly successful.
The key to this story is that O’Keefe and Giles were acting pursuant to declaring income derived from unlawful acts as legitimate income in order to create a paper trail with the IRS to obtain mortgage financing.
So far, we now know that they were kicked out and report in only one of the offices that ACORN CEO Bertha Lewis claims they were kicked out of. That was Philadelphia. In Baltimore, DC, Brooklyn, San Bernardino, and San Diego this proposal did not induce a rejection from the ACORN employees.
This is gotcha political info-tainment gone wild my friends. After someone informs our Illinois legisatos (sic) that Illinois ACORN is out of business, maybe we can tell Congress that Bills of Attainder are expressly forbidden by the Constitution.
Again, why on earth are there 75 comments on this ridiculous subject? What is it about ACORN that makes people so crazy?
Actually O’Keefe was thrown out in LA, Philly, and another New York office and the San Bernadino was obviously a put on by the employee. Certainly not a great track record at the offices, but also not universal.
Perhaps you should direct your question to the over 350 congressional representatives (including doznes of democrats) in DC who have voted to cease funding of ACORN. They don’t share your skepticism.
Nadler is probably right. The House Democrats really didn’t use any mechanism to block the amendment. Maybe they knew what Nadler knows.
=Actually O’Keefe was thrown out in LA, Philly, and another New York office and the San Bernadino was obviously a put on by the employee.=
ArchPundit: Can you link me to a source that confirms the LA and the New York information? All I’ve seen is statements from Bertha Lewis with this information and she really has almost no credibility in the accuracy department at all at this point.
Avid reader but first time poster. How many people work for ACORN and shouldn’t one first determine the degree of the corruption before terminating funding.It seems many large operations have incompetent employees or worse. Blackwater is an example but Congress itself has been populated with not an insignificant number of felons and morally challenged members from both parties.(Duke Cunningham, William Jefferson, Mark Foley, our own Rosty etc.) To be consistent shouldn’t the folks in DC be voting to defund themselves?
The reality that ACORN is facing is just that, reality. Politics is a tough business, frequently unfair. Accusations are tossed w/little backing and the receiving end often are not afforded an opportunity to rebut. We see that increasingly from the left in this country. The pendulum seems to be swinging, however. When I see the left wring its’ collective hands when this is happening to conservatives I’ll know we may be moving into a new realm. This stuff with ACORN is really only indicative of a deep fear many people feel now that they see what direction this country is headed. Frankly, I don’t have much pity for many - after all they enthusiastically voted for the current POTUS even tho he was quite up front about his politics and where he planned on taking this country. Too bad few were listening/reading/watching.
If you read through these posts, the danger to the President politically becomes clearer - and that is not right.
We have too many other problems to handle without this becoming a stumbling block. That is why I am glad the Congress has acted quickly here. And that is why each state has to resolve how they wish to handle this as soon as possible too. Doing nothing is an option for the lazy in this situation - but it is an option. It appears that each government will make a decision through their own due time, but the biggie seems to be defused.
Let’s move on!
Unless these legislators have some kind of evidence regarding this state - let it go!
AA has had the feeling for awhile, and more so since the birth of viral video, that the chances are fairly good that pranksters with video cameras could go just about anywhere in an organization and either find someone doing stupid or talk them into saying something stupid on tape. Look how many public officials do it without any “help.” (Hellooo, Mayor Daley.)
I think the ACORN situation is more like a political version of MTV’s “Punk’d” than investigative journalism.
VM talks in circles, “We have too many other problems to handle without this becoming a stumbling block. That is why I am glad the Congress has acted quickly here. And that is why each state has to resolve how they wish to handle this as soon as possible too.”
So it’s a problem because…
- conservatives posing as stereotypical “bad” characters went in, told some tall tales, and creatively edited some videos
- they then promoted those videos widely through conservative media, thereby generating “controversy”
- said videos and manufactured controversy is then covered by the traditional media
- said coverage on traditional media of the controversy covered on conservative media which was manufactured by conservative imposters then leads to political hand-wringing and head-scratching
- before all this manufactured controversy and traditional media coverage of conservative media coverage can become a stumbling block “Congress acts quickly”
- said quick Congressional action leads to Republicans at various state levels across the country to continue to pontificate upon the manufactured controversy even though many (if not most) of said states do not even fund the activities at the root of the latest controversy manufactured by conservatives and promoted in the conservative media
- and Vanilla Man posts that there is some sort of danger to the President given all continued grandstanding even after the quick action as a result of wanting to avoid stumbling blocks created by the coverage of the coverage of the manufactured controversy
The far right is waging a political war of attrition on the Obama administration. It ought to be obvious. The amazing thing is the number of people willing to get worked up over these spurious issues. It really is tiresome having the national political dialog constantly garbaged up with nonsense claims.
Haven’t been to PSB in a while Bren. Not sure what PSB has to do with your assertion that something “can be provided” but your lack of evidence to back up your claim.
Is this where tell you to, ‘Go back to Illinois Review’?
–
Tobor says, “I agree, who ever heard of showing someone how to avoid taxes, the nerve of some people.”
Just ask a CPA — or a tax attorney.
–
Bobs yer says, “So this is what a “community organizer” does.”
Rob N, I think what my friend VanMan was doing there in the last post or two was what one might call in its politically correct form “reverse urination.”
Pretty good article in today’s LA Times linked below has some info on Chicago ACORN and when/how offices are being shut down. Also it details some local resignations to protest ACORN national office problems. Considering the interest in this topic on CAP Fax, it’s worth a read. http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-acorn19-2009sep19,0,6183518.story
- Small Town Liberal - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 10:21 am:
I know this isn’t really an Illinois issue, but are we going to end contracts with Blackwater for alleged killing of innocent civilians? Or how about KBR for doing shoddy work resulting in American soldiers being electrocuted? I’m not excusing these former ACORN employee’s behavior, but why is ACORN held to a higher standard than our military contractors? Oh wait, they register poor people to vote, nevermind.
- Chicago Cynic - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 10:22 am:
Can’t defend the indefensible. Acorn obviously has some fundamental problems within its management. The problem is that once all this funding is pulled, the group is going to die. Despite this controversy, they do an awful lot of good work for the poor.
I see a reconstitution of the group and name change in their future.
- wordslinger - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 10:22 am:
Yeah, they’ve got some issues.
I think I saw the federales had given them $55 million over 15 years. Not exactly AIG money, but enough to keep the Fox types outraged. Whether or not ACORN is federally funded, I think the Republic is safe.
It’ll be interesting to see what the state’s into them for.
- Rob_N - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 10:28 am:
Why didn’t those same legislators make demands about the Blackwater camp in Illinois?
Blackwater has killed innocent people while continuing to take in much more government money than ACORN.
PS - ACORN has many different functions. A lot of the gov’t grants go to ACORN’s work for helping low-income people with home ownership. I don’t see how preventing low-income citizens from getting help with purchasing a home is a “fundamental problem”.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 10:32 am:
Is Blackwater the new Left talking point about this subject?
Let’s move along from that please.
- CircularFiringSquad - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 10:32 am:
RxRon Must have been on a real toot yesterday.
BTW while the ever amusing Belleville News D failed to mention it. I checked and cannot seem to locate any state dough going to the Association of Community Organization for Reform NOW.
A small point that should not disrupt Rx Ron’s rant
- Rob_N - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 10:32 am:
Word, Minnestota’s GOP governor Pawlenty (possible 2012 Pres. candidate) just fired off a letter to his state agencies demanding (”Demanding I say!”) that all state funding for ACORN in Minnesota be immediately halted.
…There is no state funding for ACORN in Minnesota.
It’ll be interesting to see if the story is similar here in Illinois. Maybe there are some state-administered Federal grants…
But bottom line is it seems like hypocritical grand-standing by the GOP given that ACORN receives relatively small funding from the Feds whereas groups like Halliburton, Blackwater (Xe), etc. have been literally given much more and done much worse with that money — including electrocuting our soldiers with faulty barracks wiring, feeding GIs rancid meat, and more.
- Chicago Cynic - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 10:34 am:
I try to avoid standard talking points Rich, but you’ve got to admit it’s a good point. Acorn has huge problems, but they are being held to a different standard.
- Anon - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 10:35 am:
DHS was contacted yesterday and asked for all ACORN contracts with DHS. They have none.
- Rob_N - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 10:35 am:
Many more examples of the conservatives’ hypocrisy where those came from Rich.
Back to Illinois now.
- State Sen. Clay Davis - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 10:37 am:
$55 mil over 15 years is chump change. I mean seriously, low-income housing is not exactly a power base or lucrative business.
I’m interested to see where this strategy leads for R’s and why they’re bothering. Is it just to attack Obama’s community organizing roots? Attack the weak link in the coalition?
- CircularFiringSquad - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 10:38 am:
Capt. Fax:
Whaz wrong with Talking BlackWater?
They were the kind of community organizers that warmed the heard ot the Czar Rove/Cheney war machine right?
- VanillaMan - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 10:39 am:
We have taped evidence that more than a few ACORN offices across the US violated federal laws. Trying to defend the indefensible act of child prostitution by fingerpointing is simply unacceptable. Saying that since another organization is rumored to have broken laws yet recieve federal funds, misses the entire point here.
ACORN is now acknowledging what is being reported. ACORN itself knew about these issues before they were reported. ACORN themselves has been forced into doing an investigation after they denied all the allegations.
These basic facts have caused the swift reactions we have witnessed in the US Congress. The current US Congress is sypathetic to ACORN, yet voted the way they did based on the facts clearly shown. They did not want to discontinue funding ACORN if there was room for suspicion. There is none. They are clearly corrupt.
You have to take a stand here. They have crossed the line. They deserve the consequences of their actions. This isn’t a conservative attack, or a Fox News story when US Congresspeople from all ideological viewpoints, both pro and con, say enough is enough.
Can the politics. The case is closed. It is there.
- wndycty - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 10:41 am:
Rich-
Joe Conason has done some very good columns on ACORN.
This line from his most recent piece sums it up:
“Perhaps the congressional investigation now demanded by some Republican politicians would be a useful exercise, if conducted impartially. A fair investigation might begin to dispel some of the wild mythology promoted by right-wing media outlets.”
http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2009/09/18/acorn/
- perplexed & perturbed - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 10:43 am:
How many people’s fertilizer detectors are going off by this video? Really, how plausible is it? I do not find it plausible. Yes, the literal content is there, but does it make sense in the real world?
- Bill Brasky - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 10:45 am:
They are an approved group for the Illinois Housing Development Authority.
- Hmmm - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 10:47 am:
Aka - demands for national attention by 3 representatives we have never heard of.
- VanillaMan - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 10:53 am:
Regarding these Blackwater comparisons…
If we had video of Blackwater officials telling their people to deliberatly cause deaths, then perhaps you can compare. We have ACORN on video, in more than a few locations, a more than a few people, deliberatly fomenting the sexual crime of child prostitution.
If such a video of Blackwater existed - they’d be history. So, I’m going to even debate the point some bloggers are attempting to make - I am pointing out that comparing ACORN’s situation to Blackwater’s isn’t a decent comparison.
Come up with a better one, please.
- Small Town Liberal - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 10:57 am:
- They did not want to discontinue funding ACORN if there was room for suspicion. There is none. They are clearly corrupt. -
Thats some logic there. So politicians never cut ties with anything just because it is recieving negative press and could be damaging? I guess you have a pretty high opinion of the integrity of our current Congress.
- Get the Facts - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 10:59 am:
Rich, if you do some digging you may find that ACORN no longer exists in Illinois. The most recent date I can find is 2005. So it appears these Republican attack dogs may be barking at the wind, just like in Minnesota.
- Bill - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:01 am:
The actions of a few individual employees of a large organization should not determine the fate of the entire organization. ACORN does not have an official policy defending child prostitution, pimps, tax evasion, or any of the other ridiculous accusations. “…more than a few ACORN offices…” didn’t violate any laws. Three employees were illegally taped giving less than savory advice to walk in strangers. Their stupidity on the heavily edited tapes should not determine ACORN’s fitness to receive federal or state grants. Go ahead and investigate, provide oversight and demand accountability, but a couple of unverified tapes by right wing nuts should not be the deciding factor on anything. The US Congress was pandering with their votes to defund them without investigating and I am ashamed of them.
- Rob_N - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:02 am:
Vanilla,
And if the ACORN response that their members were joking with these people (even if dark humor) who were so clearly over-the-top prove true … now who needs to “can the politics”?
Moreover, the organizations I mentioned are not “rumored” to have done something bad. The evidence of their faulty wiring and random gunfire into a crowd of innocents is right there, six feet under the ground.
How can you so easily dismiss the deaths of US soldiers or innocent women and children as mere “rumors”, Vanilla, even while ignoring the very real possibility that the ACORN matter is in fact isolated and perhaps even taken out of context (given how quickly the conservatives spread their own talking points on the issue)?
Returning this to Illinois — have these 3 Republicans offered any evidence of state funding AND any evidence of wrong-doing in relation to the hypothetical funding?
- GoldCoastConservative - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:07 am:
@ Get the Facts…Acorn’s website lists an office in Chicago on W. Montrose.
- VanillaMan - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:09 am:
Rich is right.
If you will be trying to claim some kind of moral equivalence with Blackwater - you are wasting your time. If you want to protect the innocents, then how could you protect an organization that helps criminals get child prostitutes? Ridiculous.
And I am obviously not alone or even ideological here - nearly the entire freakin’ US Congress went from embracing ACORN to throwing them out the window. That doesn’t happen without reason.
You want to think it is just politics? Of course you would, wouldn’t you? After all, that is all ACORN ever was, wasn’t it? A political group funded by political friends. Naturally, when they had to stand up for what it is they do in the real world - their political friends would run. So there was really nothing there - there, to begin with.
We have a real need for an ACORN organization. Now start building a real one that isn’t committing voter fraud, is having groups within their organization arrested, and a real one that doesn’t help those who sexually abuse our children. OK?
- Bill - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:13 am:
Nobody sexually abused any children and you know it. Are you auditioning for FOX News? If you keep lying over and over again maybe somebody will believe it. Just throw it against the wall and see what sticks. Typical.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:17 am:
Bill is right, VM. Stop with the hyperbole, please.
- Responsa - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:18 am:
The public revelations about faux voter registrations in several states which came through ACORN, coupled with allegations that certain ACORN offices may have facilitated mortgage fraud, coupled with the current scandal have given some taxpayers and apparently a lot of people in government the heebie jeebies. My gut tells me that the census bureau would not have cut bait– and both houses of congress would not have voted as quickly, forcefully and bi-partisanly as they just did– if there were not serious additional suspected or already known (and perhaps soon to be made public or prosecuted) issues within ACORN. Still, if like bad apples some corrupt state ACORN operations have ruined it for other states’ ACORN operations which ARE clean and doing good work, it is too bad.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:20 am:
GoldCoastConservative, that Chicago ACORN number you noticed is disconnected. Why didn’t you call it before commenting here?
- CircularFiringSquad - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:21 am:
Vanilla
Don’t we have video of BlackWater blowing up folks? Does that count becuase they were part of the Czar Rove/Cheney Holy War on Terrorism.
Two wrongs don’t make a right
But it does demonstrate all sides have their mopes
- dupage dan - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:22 am:
ACORNs involvement with the CRA and CITICORP in the San Diego area is also of concern. While it can be debated that giving loans to illegal aliens wasn’t the cause of the housing bust, looking closer at the loans and the financial status of the borrowers indicates that bad loans were being given out to many who would never be eligible for loans with a more responsible lender. Corruption or just foolishness? Since ACORN isn’t at risk if the loans go bad where are the checks and balances here? ACORN got a lot of ’splainin to do. Time to reform the reformers.
- Downstater - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:22 am:
Acorn should clean up its act. The videos speak volumns about the character of the employees and the lack of oversight by management.
My experience with representatives of ACORN in ST. Louis is they will do what they are told, as long as they get paid. There is little principled conviction for doing what is best for poor poeople.
- erstwhilesteve - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:23 am:
It’s my understanding that there are currently no active ACORN chapters in Illinois, and no paid ACORN organizing staff. The office on W. Montrose has been shuttered for over a year.
- El Conquistador - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:26 am:
Rich - there was quite a bit of coverage here in the Metro East last election cycle of voter registration fraud allegations involving ACORN workers. There has been at least one indictment involving an East St. Louis resident who filed false registrations in St. Louis. I am sure that is what is driving the Repub interest in this area.
- erstwhilesteve - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:27 am:
Vanilla Man: “And I am obviously not alone or even ideological here - nearly the entire freakin’ US Congress went from embracing ACORN to throwing them out the window. That doesn’t happen without reason.”
Or at least without media-induced frenzy aimed at a target that doesn’t have the clout to protect itself…
- wordslinger - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:31 am:
–It’s my understanding that there are currently no active ACORN chapters in Illinois, and no paid ACORN organizing staff. The office on W. Montrose has been shuttered for over a year.–
We’re saved!
State Sen. Clay Davis: It took me a couple of minutes to place your handle. Very funny — however, I’m not sure that’s the persona you want to take to defend a group like ACORN!
- dupage dan - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:31 am:
erstwhilesteve,
=Or at least without media-induced frenzy aimed at a target that doesn’t have the clout to protect itself=
Do you really expect us to believe that ACORN never had any clout? Really?
Well, their clout left the building for a reason. You can’t defend the indefensible. Even with the hyperbole reduced to a mere fraction what we see, hear and read is appalling.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:32 am:
EC, one of the problems with this voter registration stuff is that when a group does voter registration it is required by law to hand over all the registration applications. That’s to make sure that a group won’t register somebody and toss the form out - so the individual thinks she’s registered and really isn’t.
In other words, a group pays for each voter registration, some people are crooks and do it for the cash and make up names, but the groups can’t hold back Mickey Mouse’s card because that would be illegal.
In ACORN’s case in other states, this has been used as proof that ACORN is corrupt, when it probably isn’t.
- Rob_N - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:35 am:
El Conquistador and others, several of the allegations involving voter registration fraud (not vote fraud) came as a result of freelancers which were contracted by ACORN to register voters. ACORN was apparently paying some of these folks per newly registered voter which led to the freelancers getting greedy and filing false registrations.
ACORN has the responsibility to provide better oversight of even freelancers, but it’s not exactly like ACORN was purposefully setting out to get Mickey Mouse and Batman registered to vote.
But, as others have noticed, perhaps because the group can be so easily connected to Pres. Obama conservatives have been busy using any instance of impropriety by anything related to ACORN, real or imagined, as a blunt instrument with which to swing wildly at partisan opponents.
- El Conquistador - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:35 am:
Don’t shoot the messenger Rich! I’m just saying that media coverage is probably what got those R’s in this region worked up when ACORN hit the headlines again.
- Rob_N - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:37 am:
“You can’t defend the indefensible.”
Dupage Dan and Vanilla Man have both used this term now … and Rich asks me about talking points?
- dupage dan - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:39 am:
Some posit that the voter fraud issue can be addressed by requiring people to present valid id when voting. I just read, however, that a Judge has struck down Indianas strict law re id because the state doesn’t require id for absentee voting. What I do understand is that ACORN learned of some of these problems and self reported. At least they may have gotten that one right.
- Chicago Cynic - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:44 am:
Rob, I used it too (at the top of the comments) and I assure you, no right wing talking points will ever come from this keyboard, other than for mocking purposes. It’s an obvious phrase in this circumstance.
- Small Town Liberal - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:46 am:
- In other words, a group pays for each voter registration, some people are crooks and do it for the cash and make up names, but the groups can’t hold back Mickey Mouse’s card because that would be illegal. -
Rich is exactly right. Its not like those made up names are going to go vote. I can understand that we don’t want tax dollars going to these people for making up fake voters, but the argument stops there. Any attempt to accuse ACORN of fixing an election with voter fraud is unfounded.
- dupage dan - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:51 am:
Rob,
Yeah, what CC said.
- perplexed & perturbed - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:52 am:
What is the current law in Illinois regarding identification at the polling place? I was carded in the November election (in Bridgeport, no less).
- Rob_N - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:54 am:
I know CC. Tough to relay a joke through the comment postings…
Although I would offer that rather than defending the indefensible focusing on what may just be some jokes made in really poor taste and some self-admitted voter registration inconsistencies is a way to at least take any sort of attention away from the indefensible.
It’s literally a smoke-and-mirrors means of avoiding defending the indefensible, as VM illustrates twice above.
- Brennan - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:57 am:
What is the metric used to measure “success” with ACORN receiving state subsidy?
ACORN has many active corporations in Illinois. I don’t know if any of them are receiving funding from the State of Illinois. They are.
active
ACORN Housing Corporation, Inc.
ACORN Affordable Loans, LLC
The ACORN Institute
inactive/revoked
Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now
ACORN Housing of Illinois
Citizens Services, Inc.
I don’t know why these legislators do not have specific data to cite if they want to cut off funding.
Apparently Fox News conducted a three hour interview with ACORN founder Wade Rathke. Rathke was forced to step down from ACORN last summer as the revelation of his role in covering up his brother Dale’s embezzlement emerged. Rathke apparently tells FNC that before he stepped down he encouraged ACORN to get out of the “voter registration” business.
This is the area where ACORN has produced its worst press nationally. But it is also where they produced their best press locally in Illinois. Barack Obama steered that effort in 1992 with Project Vote.
- Brennan - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:59 am:
=What is the current law in Illinois regarding identification at the polling place? I was carded in the November election (in Bridgeport, no less).=
Was this your first time voting in Illinois in that precinct?
- Rob_N - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 12:01 pm:
P&P you should not have had to produce an identification. Matching your signature to the signature with your registration file should suffice (the big book or box of cards the election judges have).
The rational behind not requiring id is that it amounts to a poll tax since drivers licenses and state id cards cost a fee to obtain.
In Indiana, nuns were turned away last year because they didn’t have id cards.
- 47th Ward - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 12:02 pm:
ACORN has some problems. Congress voted. There are hundreds of more important issues facing the country that need attention. This is the smallest one. Why all the noise about ACORN? Why is the GOP so focued on this?
I hope Congress moves on to more pressing business. I’m sure Fox News won’t.
- Brennan - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 12:06 pm:
Rich and Rob: ACORN has admitted that they have paid canvassers to register voters using quotas to measure “pass or fail” employment standards. In other words, the canvassers are paid by the hour, but ACORN establishes their own metric quota in order to test if the employee is working or not.
Here’s a link to a story about ACORN’s political director in Nevada who just plead guilty.
http://is.gd/3q2ag
- Rob_N - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 12:09 pm:
Brennan, Thanks for the clarification.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 12:10 pm:
Brennan, that’s one state. And in that state, there’s a crime against “compensation for registration of voters.” That’s not the case here.
- perplexed & perturbed - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 12:11 pm:
I agree with 47th Ward. Activist Republicans seem stuck in a groove picking hot button issues and working them to death. They also seem to be less concerned with facts than appearances, exhibit A, the “pimp” video.
- Brennan - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 12:12 pm:
=The rational behind not requiring id is that it amounts to a poll tax since drivers licenses and state id cards cost a fee to obtain.=
The State will presently give a free photo ID to people over the age of 65 or persons with a disability. I’m certain another exemption can be provided if there are others unable to afford the $5, $10, or $20.
- Brennan - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 12:28 pm:
=And in that state, there’s a crime against “compensation for registration of voters.”=
That’s inaccurate. You can compensate employees in voter registration drives in Nevada. You just cannot compensate them “per registration”.
- Quinn T. Sential - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 12:28 pm:
“Three state legislatos ”
Are they like the capito version of SpaghettiO’s?
- Okay Then... - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 12:29 pm:
LMAO redux…and the ACORN = just “a few bad apples…” theory express rolls on. g f o r m!
- ArchPundit - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 12:35 pm:
Brennan starts to point out some of the problems with this discussion. ACORN as discussed by most people isn’t one entity. ACORN is primarily two organizations nationally. One is the housing corporation which is the one that receives most of the tax funds for tasks such as mortgage counseling. They do great work. In fact, they are an excellent resource against predatory lending and probably reduced the problems from the housing bust.
ACORN Housing is not implicated in any of the accusations and again is the primary beneficiary of any tax dollars in most locations. It would be a shame if they are cut off.
ACORN not housing has been undergoing a fairly radical leadership change that started in 2008 after numerous management problems. Mostly their problems are that of incompetence.
Saint Louis ACORN–an incompetent bunch of nitwits as I’ve ever seen, has consistently not monitored their voter registration workers and until they changed their local leadership, had numerous scandals of ACORN workers turning in false voting applications. These false applications aren’t designed to get fake voters on the rolls, they are designed to get the canvassers extra pay. Mickey Mouse isn’t voting regardless of whether a voter registration application is turned in or not. More recently the Saint Louis branch has worked with the St. Louis City Board of Elections to monitor their canvassers better and when someone does violate the law, work with the Board to prosecute the fraud. It’s a good sign and has been relatively successful in 2008.
Overall the organization is undergoing a complete transformation from a fairly inept organization it had devolved into a black hole of incompetence. They have made some initial promising changes at the national level, but obviously there are still local branches that are problems. Mostly ACORN isn’t funded by tax dollars despite all of the bizarre claims. They receive tax dollars for things like some outreach programs usually promoting federal programs and some services like the tax preparation and financial literacy work.
Would it be reasonable to defund them? Probably not in the sense that any bill banning a particular government contractor is a bad idea. Accountability legislation should be targeted to all government contractors and that is where the Blackwater comparison comes in. Blackwater has wrongly billed the government, been involved in illegal weapons trafficking in the US, and is currently under investigation for murder and other violations. The point, to me, is that with the accounting violations alone they are defrauding taxpayers far more than ACORN so why isn’t there a more general outrage at government contractors defrauding taxpayers. ACORN in some cases clearly needs to be held accountable, but it’s not rational to go after them and not fraud as a whole and starting with them is silly since their level of funding is very small compared to many contractors known to have committed the same or worse violations.
- GoldCoastConservative - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 12:44 pm:
@ Rich Miller With all due respect, the recording does not tell you when the phone was disconnected. It could have been yesterday for all we know. As for the group leaving the state last year, I would note that the WGN Community Calendar, updated within the last six months if not more recently, details forclosure assistance available via Acorn’s Chicago office.
- ArchPundit - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 12:50 pm:
GCC—As I mentioned, ACORN Housing is a separate entity from ACORN.
- VanillaMan - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 12:50 pm:
Or at least without media-induced frenzy aimed at a target that doesn’t have the clout to protect itself…
You mean that one story that appeared in the NYT over the past week? Charlie Gibson? You mean Pelosi? Or the one story that appeared on CBS? The formerly mainstream media ignored this until they couldn’t. ACORN has a lot of supporters, and often deservedly so. But instead of news, our enlightened journos tried to bury this because they wanted to.
- Brennan - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 12:50 pm:
ArchPundit: It is my understanding that the tapes were all made at ACORN Housing Corporation, Inc offices.
I think this is the bigger problem with ACORN. They have multiple not for profits that receive funding from federal, state, and county authorities. Some funds go to ACORN, some to ACORN Housing Corp, Inc, and some to The ACORN Institute.
Realistically, I don’t know how governments adequately monitor their grants. Not that this is a new dilemma, but it is going to be a bigger issue with just about every Treasury reporting lower revenues. People are going to start asking what they get for their tax money.
Local papers appear to be reaching out to the competent ACORN staff members that do not reflect the incendiary language of the ACORN CEO Bertha Lewis. These staffers answer questions and promote the organizations efforts. Ms. Lewis has taken to the airwaves to say ludicrous things such as “we’ve seen this behavior before. They used to lynch us” as she told Mark Thompson of the “Make it Plain” radio show on the Sirius Left channel. And ACORN is under attack because “it serves the black and brown community”.
It’s my understanding that ACORN seeks to meet the needs of ALL Americans that live in poverty. Wade Rathke may have screwed up, but his tone is far more inviting than that of Ms. Lewis.
- Brennan - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 12:55 pm:
ACORN’s problems are so bad that there is a group of dissidents that still believe in the best work of ACORN. They’re known as the “ACORN Eight”. Some of them of former Board members. One is a whistle blower named Anita Moncrief.
The NY Times reporter Stephanie Strom was reportedly working on a full story last October, but her coverage went dark after receiving instructions from her editors. It was soon thereafter that the McCain campaign started running attack ads on Obama for his relationship with ACORN in Illinois.
- erstwhilesteve - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 12:57 pm:
GCC: As ArchPundit says above in his pretty accurate post, ACORN Housing Corp. and ACORN are distinct entities. AHC came out of ACORN 15+ years ago, and kept an affiliation for several years, but now has completely separate governance, finances, and operations. It is a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organization - which ACORN never was - and one of the most widely respected housing counseling groups in Chicago and in the country. I can only hope that people as smart as the readers of CF will not continue to confuse the two.
- dupage dan - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 1:01 pm:
VM,
That’s not clout. That’s objective, journalistic ostriching.
- ArchPundit - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 1:10 pm:
===ArchPundit: It is my understanding that the tapes were all made at ACORN Housing Corporation, Inc offices.
No, though I was off–they were made at both.
It’s a fairly significant distinction between the two though. While they obviously have similar origins, the embezzlement and nearly all of the controversial issues with voting registration is with ACORN and not ACORN Housing.
And as someone who has done evaluation of government contractors, I could not agree more than there isn’t enough effective evaluation.
The ACORN Housing work though has been evaluated and evaluated fairly well in several locations and found to be a strong program. Nearly a decade ago, teh federal government imposed a stronger line of demarcation between the two agencies to ensure the feds weren’t funding political activities and it is probably the best thing that happened to ACORN Housing.
Also, as you kind of allude, ACORN Housing’s leadership has been far more accepting of responsibility for the videos than ACORN not Housing which did it’s typical rant.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 1:10 pm:
===@ Rich Miller With all due respect, the recording does not tell you when the phone was disconnected.===
Illinois ACORN was dissolved last year.
Stop it.
- True Observer - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 1:35 pm:
“It’s my understanding that there are currently no active ACORN chapters in Illinois…”
They moved to the White House.
- Rob_N - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 1:40 pm:
Brennan says, “The State will presently give a free photo ID to people over the age of 65 or persons with a disability.”
That’s great if you’re over 65 or disabled and want to vote.
What if you’re literally too poor and want to vote? You’re just outta luck?
Brennan also says, “I’m certain another exemption can be provided if there are others unable to afford the $5, $10, or $20.”
You don’t sound so certain to me since you offer no evidence to back up your claim that other exemptions exist.
- Brennan - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 1:44 pm:
Rob_N: Don’t be silly. What do you think “can be provided” means?
I wonder if this carries any weight around here. Go back to Prairie State Blue.
- Champaign Dweller - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 2:08 pm:
This isn’t just a few employees gone wild. We now have videotaped evidence of ACORN employees in multiple locations across the country assisting people in setting up brothels for teenaged hookers. In the videos I saw, none of the employees appeared to be surprised that they received such a question. Frankly, I wonder if this doesn’t warrant RICO charges. I don’t think we can trust them with additional funds until they prove they are worthy. We don’t have extra money to fund criminal activities.
The defense that I was just stringing them along, I believe, has been tried by quite a few politicians and others indicted–I have yet to see it being terribly successful.
- Brennan - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 2:15 pm:
The key to this story is that O’Keefe and Giles were acting pursuant to declaring income derived from unlawful acts as legitimate income in order to create a paper trail with the IRS to obtain mortgage financing.
So far, we now know that they were kicked out and report in only one of the offices that ACORN CEO Bertha Lewis claims they were kicked out of. That was Philadelphia. In Baltimore, DC, Brooklyn, San Bernardino, and San Diego this proposal did not induce a rejection from the ACORN employees.
- dupage dan - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 2:32 pm:
Well, they got it right in 1 out of 6 cases. Do they expect us to cut ‘em slack on the other 5?
I wonder, how many more tapes are out there, ready for prime time viewing?
- 47th Ward - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 2:39 pm:
This is gotcha political info-tainment gone wild my friends. After someone informs our Illinois legisatos (sic) that Illinois ACORN is out of business, maybe we can tell Congress that Bills of Attainder are expressly forbidden by the Constitution.
Again, why on earth are there 75 comments on this ridiculous subject? What is it about ACORN that makes people so crazy?
- ArchPundit - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 2:46 pm:
Actually O’Keefe was thrown out in LA, Philly, and another New York office and the San Bernadino was obviously a put on by the employee. Certainly not a great track record at the offices, but also not universal.
- dupage dan - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 2:57 pm:
47th Ward,
Perhaps you should direct your question to the over 350 congressional representatives (including doznes of democrats) in DC who have voted to cease funding of ACORN. They don’t share your skepticism.
- 47th Ward - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 3:00 pm:
One of them does. He just happens to Chair the obscure Committee on the U.S. Constitution.
Google “Bills of Attainder” and learn a little something about revenge legislation.
- Rob_N - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 3:04 pm:
47th asks, “What is it about ACORN that makes people so crazy?”
Not all people, 47, just some.
- Brennan - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 3:12 pm:
Nadler is probably right. The House Democrats really didn’t use any mechanism to block the amendment. Maybe they knew what Nadler knows.
=Actually O’Keefe was thrown out in LA, Philly, and another New York office and the San Bernadino was obviously a put on by the employee.=
ArchPundit: Can you link me to a source that confirms the LA and the New York information? All I’ve seen is statements from Bertha Lewis with this information and she really has almost no credibility in the accuracy department at all at this point.
- Just Wondering - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 3:33 pm:
Avid reader but first time poster. How many people work for ACORN and shouldn’t one first determine the degree of the corruption before terminating funding.It seems many large operations have incompetent employees or worse. Blackwater is an example but Congress itself has been populated with not an insignificant number of felons and morally challenged members from both parties.(Duke Cunningham, William Jefferson, Mark Foley, our own Rosty etc.) To be consistent shouldn’t the folks in DC be voting to defund themselves?
- dupage dan - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 3:37 pm:
47th Ward,
Thank you for the tutorial.
The reality that ACORN is facing is just that, reality. Politics is a tough business, frequently unfair. Accusations are tossed w/little backing and the receiving end often are not afforded an opportunity to rebut. We see that increasingly from the left in this country. The pendulum seems to be swinging, however. When I see the left wring its’ collective hands when this is happening to conservatives I’ll know we may be moving into a new realm. This stuff with ACORN is really only indicative of a deep fear many people feel now that they see what direction this country is headed. Frankly, I don’t have much pity for many - after all they enthusiastically voted for the current POTUS even tho he was quite up front about his politics and where he planned on taking this country. Too bad few were listening/reading/watching.
They are now.
- VanillaMan - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 3:58 pm:
If you read through these posts, the danger to the President politically becomes clearer - and that is not right.
We have too many other problems to handle without this becoming a stumbling block. That is why I am glad the Congress has acted quickly here. And that is why each state has to resolve how they wish to handle this as soon as possible too. Doing nothing is an option for the lazy in this situation - but it is an option. It appears that each government will make a decision through their own due time, but the biggie seems to be defused.
Let’s move on!
Unless these legislators have some kind of evidence regarding this state - let it go!
- AA - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 4:39 pm:
AA has had the feeling for awhile, and more so since the birth of viral video, that the chances are fairly good that pranksters with video cameras could go just about anywhere in an organization and either find someone doing stupid or talk them into saying something stupid on tape. Look how many public officials do it without any “help.” (Hellooo, Mayor Daley.)
I think the ACORN situation is more like a political version of MTV’s “Punk’d” than investigative journalism.
- Rob_N - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 4:39 pm:
VM talks in circles, “We have too many other problems to handle without this becoming a stumbling block. That is why I am glad the Congress has acted quickly here. And that is why each state has to resolve how they wish to handle this as soon as possible too.”
So it’s a problem because…
- conservatives posing as stereotypical “bad” characters went in, told some tall tales, and creatively edited some videos
- they then promoted those videos widely through conservative media, thereby generating “controversy”
- said videos and manufactured controversy is then covered by the traditional media
- said coverage on traditional media of the controversy covered on conservative media which was manufactured by conservative imposters then leads to political hand-wringing and head-scratching
- before all this manufactured controversy and traditional media coverage of conservative media coverage can become a stumbling block “Congress acts quickly”
- said quick Congressional action leads to Republicans at various state levels across the country to continue to pontificate upon the manufactured controversy even though many (if not most) of said states do not even fund the activities at the root of the latest controversy manufactured by conservatives and promoted in the conservative media
- and Vanilla Man posts that there is some sort of danger to the President given all continued grandstanding even after the quick action as a result of wanting to avoid stumbling blocks created by the coverage of the coverage of the manufactured controversy
….Makes perfect sense to me, Van.
- Plutocrat03 - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 5:10 pm:
From a standpoint of prudence, it would make sense to review Acorn and it’s many associate who receive state $$$.
Audits of ongoing programs funded by public money are common. If there is a question, do an interim review and act on the results.
Suspending funding without specific wrongdoing makes no sense. Similary if wrongdoing is found, all legal remedies should be sought.
- perplexed & perturbed - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 6:16 pm:
The far right is waging a political war of attrition on the Obama administration. It ought to be obvious. The amazing thing is the number of people willing to get worked up over these spurious issues. It really is tiresome having the national political dialog constantly garbaged up with nonsense claims.
- Tobor - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 9:08 pm:
I agree, who ever heard of showing someone how to avoid taxes, the nerve of some people.
- Rob_N - Friday, Sep 18, 09 @ 11:14 pm:
Brennan says, “Go back to Prairie State Blue.”
Haven’t been to PSB in a while Bren. Not sure what PSB has to do with your assertion that something “can be provided” but your lack of evidence to back up your claim.
Is this where tell you to, ‘Go back to Illinois Review’?
–
Tobor says, “I agree, who ever heard of showing someone how to avoid taxes, the nerve of some people.”
Just ask a CPA — or a tax attorney.
–
Bobs yer says, “So this is what a “community organizer” does.”
Zzzz…
- AA - Saturday, Sep 19, 09 @ 11:34 am:
Rob N, I think what my friend VanMan was doing there in the last post or two was what one might call in its politically correct form “reverse urination.”
- Responsa - Saturday, Sep 19, 09 @ 3:06 pm:
Pretty good article in today’s LA Times linked below has some info on Chicago ACORN and when/how offices are being shut down. Also it details some local resignations to protest ACORN national office problems. Considering the interest in this topic on CAP Fax, it’s worth a read.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-acorn19-2009sep19,0,6183518.story