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Tribune: Rigging claim not true
Tuesday, Mar 23, 2010 - Posted by Rich Miller * Chicago Republican state Rep. candidate Scott Tucker has been getting a whole lot of mileage out of the red-light camera issue. Tucker, who’s up against Ann Williams in the November general, has been featured several times in Chicago and national media blasting the cameras as unsafe. No problem with that, of course. That’s just good politics. People generally don’t like red-light cameras, so it’s a great issue, even though his rhetoric has often been way over the top…
More than a bit much, but it’s in keeping with his tea party-like appeal. * The real problem is with Tucker’s oft-repeated claim that he has timed several red-light camera intersections and believes Chicago is rigging the system…
The yellow lights are supposed to last three seconds, but Tucker claims the city is not telling the truth, and that the alleged timing change has resulted in more red-light tickets and more accidents. The Chicago Tribune did the due diligence and clocked 70 Chicago red-light cameras. All came in at 3 seconds or longer. They took apart a control box to see how difficult it would be to reprogram the lights. Not easy at all. In fact, the lights are programmed to revert to flashing red if the yellow light time meanders lower than 2.8 seconds. Also, the 3-second yellow light has been the standard in Chicago for 50 years, according to the article. And then there’s this…
Not exactly a “trap,” as has been claimed. And why are yellow lights longer in the suburbs? This makes logical sense…
Anyway, it’s fine to hate the cameras. There are plenty of good reasons. But let’s try to stick to the facts from now on.
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- Small Town Liberal - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 11:00 am:
The hunger thing is totally true. I used to blow red lights all the time in Chicago when I was craving a chalupa. Now I wait while my stomach growls.
- Lefty Lefty - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 11:08 am:
Is there a standard for these things? I got snapped by the 25th Avenue Ike entrance camera a couple of weeks ago. I have not received a ticket, but it could be coming any day.
I was sitting in the intersection to make a left onto the little street leading to the westbound entrance ramp. I waited to turn and then the light turned red as I was turning. That’s legal, right?
Anyway, do the powers-that-be only give tickets for running a solid red? Or do they also ticket for entering an intersection when it’s yellow? Are you OK if you get through the whole intersection before it turns red? Is there any consistency? If one of the CapFax legal experts know the answer, I would deeply appreciate the input.
- train111 - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 11:10 am:
Since when have facts been a deterent to a good tea party rant?
train111
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 11:13 am:
The left-turn thing probably bothers me more than anything else.
In Chicago, the tradition on busy streets without left-turn green arrows is that three cars get to turn left once the light changes to red. The first turner is really the only “legal” one, however. The other two aren’t typically (or, I think, shouldn’t legally be) in the intersection when the light turns to red. They would get a ticket.
But if you stop this three-car turn tradition, it’ll seriously back up traffic on streets that don’t have left-turn lanes, or even on some that do.
- David Ormsby - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 11:15 am:
The tea party types will just run over inconvenient facts that put ‘liberty’ at risk.
- Lincoln Parker - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 11:18 am:
Lefty Lefty, they review all the footage before issuing a ticket to make sure a violation actually occurred. Just because you saw a flash doesn’t mean you violated the law. If you were already in the intersection before it turned red, I think you are OK. Also, they are pretty quick to mail out those tickets, so if you haven’t gotten it yet, you are probably in the clear.
I live in Chicago, park on the street and drive frequently, I haven’t received a red light ticket and have gotten 1 parking ticket in the last 4 years which was dismissed because it was invalid. There are some people who like to make a lot of noise that make it sound like if you drive into the city you’re going to get a ticket. Its easy to not get a ticket if you don’t run red lights and check signs before you park.
- dupage dan - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 11:20 am:
Is that 3 turn left on a red light thing like the old lawn chairs dibs on shoveled parking spot?
- Lincoln Parker - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 11:29 am:
Rich, agree on the left turn thing. Though every intersection I’ve seen with a camera has dedicated left turn lanes. Though if they keep adding more, I’m sure that won’t be the case.
- George - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 11:30 am:
I think during Rush Hour the allowance is 4 cars.
The 5th car is only acceptable in the case of it being a taxi.
Police cars can turn at any time.
- Lefty Lefty - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 11:47 am:
Glad to hear I should be in the clear. Seeing that flash is only slightly less disturbing than “lookin’ into my mirror and seein’ a po-leece car!” (HT David Crosby)
Still wondering about the speed-up-at-the-yellow-light-and-clear-the-intersection scenario. I’ve heard the entrance into the intersection on yellow, not red, will ding you.
When I got home after that Bellwood episode I hopped online and learned that Bellwood makes $60-70K a month from that one camera. These things aren’t going away.
- Lincoln Parker - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 12:51 pm:
State law treats a yellow light exactly the same as a green light, it is just a warning a red is coming. If people were getting tickets entering on yellow, there would be a lot of noise about it. I think the biggest problem is people getting tickets a fraction of a second after it turns red, which is their complaint for longer yellows. The argument is also that people are speeding up on yellows to make it through, which is making the intersections less safe, not more safe as supporters claim.
- Rob N - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 1:06 pm:
Shorter synopsis on the tea party:
“[If X is] not true, [X has] tea party appeal.”
Whether it’s their misplaced myopia on Obama’s birthplace or religion, their firm belief in the existence of Nazi-like “death panels” in healthcare reform, or even their urban myth of an upcoming Federal ban on fishing of all things the tea partiers are quickly becoming the definition “crazy”.
- Brennan - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 1:10 pm:
“Lack of health insurance is causing accidents, hunger, evictions, and foreclosures in Illinois.”
There. I fixed applied Health Care for America Now facts.
- Brennan - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 1:24 pm:
One car turning left at the end of the light is serious comedy in Chicago.
Someone should run for alderman on that issue alone. They would win.
Just about every driver in Chicago everyday gets compromised by one of the city’s six corner intersections.
- VanillaMan - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 3:28 pm:
This is not about the Tea Party, so stop slamming your neighbors and insulting them.
This guy’s claim is ridiculous once he goes beyond the safety issue. Everyone, even the voters who so many leftist have labeled as dim-witted Tea Party activists, know this.
His claim that there exists some conspiracy regarding the timing of lights, needs to be disproven before you laugh at it. We’ve seen and heard more amazing things than that. I seem to recall hearing that a governor tried to sell a US Senate seat. Since that seems to be true, let’s not just jump and smear every charge until proven otherwise.
I don’t want to believe that someone or other is manipulating the red lights in order to collect fines, but it doesn’t mean I shouldn’t investigate the charge first.
Now, that said, I believe that any savvy candidate capable of making the red light cameras a campaign issue, has a winning issue. This kind of populism goes way back. Citizens don’t want to be hassled. Elected offices are filled with candidates who rode a similar bandwagon into political success.
The Goo-Goos who want to believe in a mythical benign government that is using these cameras only to promote public safety are just as delusional as the silly charges this candidate has made.
Pick your religion.
- Rob N - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 3:59 pm:
Vanilla, a Harris poll just came out that shows a quarter (24%!) of Republicans think Obama is the anti-Christ.
Granted, even more Republicans think that he’s a foreign-born Muslim (he’s neither), but the anti-Christ?
So, yes, I and likely millions of other Americans will continue to make fun of goofballs and liars.
Calling a spade a spade is not insulting to the spade.
PS - The point of the Trib article Rich links to is, in fact, to disprove this particular goofball’s specific conspiracy theory related to red light cameras… And disprove it Ma Trib did.
- aaronsinger - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 6:23 pm:
No, not every intersection with a camera has a left-turn signal. A friend was the ‘lead car’ waiting to turn left, turned as the light was going red, and was ticketed. And lost the appeal.
Also, my sister got ticketed for turning right on a red, she had photo proof that there was no no turn on red sign at that intersection [Ashland and I think Montrose], she stopped to wait and turn, and still lost her appeal.
Though I live in the city, I’m glad I don’t drive much. When I do, I don’t pull into intersections to turn left, nor do I turn right on red anymore, for exactly these reasons.
- Anon in BB - Tuesday, Mar 23, 10 @ 11:42 pm:
I got nailed by one of these things in January. Nothing in the notice said anything about appealing based on road conditions. I was very near the intersection and made a judgement call based on the fact there was a sheen on the road and it was very cold. I felt I wouldn’t be able to stop in time and would end up skidding into the intersection. But they don’t take that into account.
We had these things in Bolingbrook for a very short time, like six months. They are gone now. Why? The mayor got nailed by one of them. Shortly after, poof, they were turned off and then dismantled.
- Scameras! - Wednesday, Mar 24, 10 @ 9:34 am:
Tucker didn’t lie. The video evidence was posted to Youtube in December 2009.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njbG6Yeg3s0
- Burton Kent - Wednesday, Mar 24, 10 @ 1:54 pm:
What does that Tucker guy have to say for himself? It does seem like a good cause - I know I’m far more likely to jam on my brakes at an intersection now and get rear ended because there’s no leeway.
As for speed limits being lower in Chicago, that’s not true. The intersections shown in the video I saw are 40mph, not 30.
- Tricia - Wednesday, Mar 24, 10 @ 2:12 pm:
I’m with Tucker on this. I don’t dare even go through a YELLOW light anymore. Of course, this leads to many people honking their horns at you. One guy actually got out of his car and tried to open my door. I feared for my life. I think I’m just going to plan my route around these lights.
- Steve - Wednesday, Mar 24, 10 @ 4:03 pm:
I’m also with Scott Tucker on this. The red light cameras have nothing to do with safety - they’ve simply been installed to generate revenue. Does anyone believe otherwise?
I appreciate Tucker’s over-the-top rhetoric on the issue because he’s borrowing from (and practically parodying) the playbook of Chicago style politics. I’m just sorry Scott hasn’t found any children and people in neck braces and/or wheelchairs to stand behind him at press conferences.
- 47th Ward - Wednesday, Mar 24, 10 @ 8:46 pm:
===The red light cameras have nothing to do with safety - they’ve simply been installed to generate revenue.===
So what? Consider it a tax on bad drivers, a user fee, whatever. Smokers, drinkers and gamblers can’t pay every tax, the pain must be spread around to other social pariahs.