74 Comments - bored now - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 8:07 am: i love that movie! - Julie D - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 8:14 am: If any rally gets through to our reps in Springfield, *please* let it be this one. Raise taxes now. - Cindy Lou - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 8:16 am: Very cool. Mr. CL left hours ago (he drives himself) and the buses from our local have been on the way down since the rooster sounded off. I was feeling left out until I came to Rich’s this morning and see I get to glimpse it anyway. Thanks Mr. Miller, whether readers agree or disagree with what goes on in the state we can count on Rich to bring us the up to the minute news and keep us informed, good , bad or indifferent. Nobody does it like Rich! - wordslinger - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 8:32 am: Beautiful day for it. - Pam Harris (Josh's Mom) - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 8:54 am: Josh and I drove down yesterday from our quiet little village outside Chicago. We are scheduled to present testimony on HR720 at 2pm. (Bad timing, I know.) Thanks to Rich and livestreaming, we can stay safely tucked in our hotel on Adams Street until it’s time to make the 5 block walk to the Capitol building with a clear picture of the situation we are walking into. Thanks, Rich. Very cool! - collar observer - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 8:59 am: Amen Julie D - raise fair, responsible new revenue now! and crowds, don’t forget why you are there - go home and keep up the noise! - Montrose - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 9:07 am: If you use twitter, you can follow tweets from people at the rally via the #sosrally. - John Ruberry - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 9:10 am: Why aren’t these public servants working? - wordslinger - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 9:15 am: John, my guess is that they’re taking earned time off to participate in the process as citizens. Problem? - John Ruberry - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 9:18 am: Do it on Saturday. - squeezably soft - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 9:19 am: a group of tax eaters asking for higher taxes in the midst of a depression — to me it ludicrous! just as taxpayers complain about bloated bureaucracy — they should demand more review of the top dollar salaries paid to administrators of these so called “non-profits” - let the sunshine in! - Peggy SO-IL - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 9:21 am: I guess these teachers just proved their jobs can be cut. I say save or state from the teachers’ union and assorted beggars on hand today. - Dead Head - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 9:24 am: John, what’s the matter, don’t you get paid time off? Are you in a Union? Why not? If one doesn’t exist, start one. - John Ruberry - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 9:29 am: I do….but tens of thousands of state workers getting the same time period off? What a coincidence. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 9:30 am: John, they can be citizens on Saturday? Mighty nice of you, boss. As far as I can tell, everything is up and running today. - ABCBoy - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 9:33 am: John Bambenek’s Twitter & Facebook post: === It’s Rent-Seeker Day in Springfield. “What do we want? Free Stuff! When do we want it? NOW!” === - Brennan - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 9:34 am: It’s pretty easy to pack US Cellular field with the promise of free boos. The Capitol can’t be that different. - Belle - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 9:38 am: Pointless rally. Voters do not want a tax increase. - Plutocrat03 - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 9:39 am: In 2009, the union membership rate–the percent of wage and salary workers who were members of a union–was 12.3 percent, down .1% from 2008. There are more members of public service unions than there are private sector unions. Two observations. Membership has been on a downward slope for many years. Many of the jobs held by union members have moved away. Have the unions helped or hurt the job holders in those industries? Is it wise for the general public to be asked to continue to support raises and continue work rules that support expansion of union jobs when they themselves are earning less than before? - Ramsin - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 9:39 am: Every day is Rent-Seeker Day in Springfield for the state’s largest business associations and their swarm of lobbyists. - Montrose - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 9:40 am: *Pointless rally. Voters do not want a tax increase.* With the exception of the kids going down to Springfield today, I am pretty certain these 15,000 individuals going to the rally are voters. - A.B, - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 9:45 am: Raise taxes? Are you nuts? This bloated government can’t responsibly manage what they have, why the heck would we give them more of our hard earned money in a recessionary economy, which has Illinois trailing behind the rest of the nation job creation? The way to raise funds is with a pro-business climate and strong economy. When these two come together, the dollars flow into the government coffers. This means more jobs (more payroll taxes), more commerce (more sales taxes), more businesses (more property taxes), and a ton of other hidden or less commonly known taxes and fees. More taxes drive more businesses our of the state, followed by the workers and ultimately the tax revenues dry up rapidly…but the upkeep of the infrastructure remains. - Secret Square - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 9:48 am: John, would you be equally disapproving of, say, a state employee or public school teacher who took their OWN personal or vacation time during the work week to attend a Tea Party, a 9/12 rally, a 2nd Amendment rally, or the National March for Life? Would you consider that wrong, or would you admire them for sacrificing vacation/personal time they COULD have saved for pleasure or family business in order to stand up for a “conservative” cause? I personally don’t agree with the aim of this rally, but no matter who they work for, if they use THEIR OWN vacation or personal time to attend, they have every right to be there. - VanillaMan - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 9:52 am: Some critics are confused here. They are thinking that “indentured” servants are rallying, not “public” servants. They hear the word “servant”, and immediately think that these people have no rights, except to serve them at all times. - dupage dan - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 9:56 am: It has been posited that the state can not grow itself out of this fiscal mess. That increased taxes are the only way. Tough sell right now. In another post there is reference to Radogno looking for specifics in regards to cuts that were promised. We all know PQ is great for the announcement of some important thing (cuts, canoes and courage) but has the tendency to flip on one thing and flop on another. Let’s see what hardcore cuts have been promised and enacted before ANY discussion of tax increases. What PQ gives, he says he takes away and then gives back when someone whines. What a stalwart leader we have, no? Those who think that this union get together will have much impact should note Rich’s statements about the history of such events. Lots of noise - not much result. Good organizers look to identifying new ways of applying pressure to the power structure to secure concessions. Mass marches may make the marchers feel good but is not as effective as in the past. - ABCBoy - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 9:56 am: === Membership has been on a downward slope for many years. Many of the jobs held by union members have moved away. Have the unions helped or hurt the job holders in those industries? === Historically, labor advocates and more specifically unions have a problem of being too effective for their own good. Basic human rights policies such as eliminating sweat-shops and child labor laws have been adopted as federal laws. So too with minimum wages and safety regulations such as OSHA and health inspections. There is a diminishing rationale for joining a labor union. Talk to the rank-and-file as opposed to the union leaders. Choking the goose that lays the golden eggs… === I am pretty certain these 15,000 individuals going to the rally are voters. === And how many of them belong to interest groups that survive by the teat of state government contracts? Plus, there’s another 7.3 million that aren’t showing up. I’m not sure the 15,000 is necessarily representative of the Illinois citizentry at-large. Look, I lived in Michigan for a good chunk of my life before moving here. Illinois is going down the exact same path. The only thing that’s saving Illinois from Michigan’s fate in the short-term is Illinois’ relatively diversified economy and that Chicago is a more functioning city than Detroit. But this is happening in spite of, not because of, the current path we’re on. If we keep walking down it, we’re going to be the next Michigan in another 15 years. - John Ruberry - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 9:57 am: I took a day off from work to attend the Rockford rally (Funny, why didn’t Rich cover the one in Springield?). There was no phony “grass roots” coaltion compelling me to attend. Besides, I’m not on the public payroll, so yours is a spurious argument. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 9:58 am: ===Funny, why didn’t Rich cover the one in Springield?=== Y’all bring 15,000 people to town and I’ll cover it, dude. - Montrose - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 9:59 am: *(Funny, why didn’t Rich cover the one in Springield?)* I am sure if that rally had 15,000 people as well, he would have. - dupage dan - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 10:02 am: BTW, John tries to obscure the issue with his predictable response to people excersising their right to free speech. While I think it is an ill-conceived activity that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t happen or that people just oughta stay at their desks and shut up. Whenever these events come around there is someone who posts that the state employees should not be doing this - they are employees of the state and are somehow ditching their responsibilities. As tired and boring as the march. Everyone to their places now - ready, set, act! - Cindy Lou - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 10:05 am: I’m still trying to take in the thought that John thinks public servants only work Monday through Friday :-0 - How Ironic - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 10:06 am: The sounds of buses arriving is intermingling with the sounds of music playing. It’s going to be a loud long day. - ABCBoy - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 10:08 am: === While I think it is an ill-conceived activity that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t happen or that people just oughta stay at their desks and shut up. Whenever these events come around there is someone who posts that the state employees should not be doing this - they are employees of the state and are somehow ditching their responsibilities. As tired and boring as the march. Everyone to their places now - ready, set, act! === Exactly. Just to be clear, my point wasn’t that citizens–including public employees or quasi-public employees–ought not have the right to protest. They have every right to do it, and as long as they aren’t doing it on the state’s dime, then fine. My point was that the 15,000–although large–isn’t representative of the electorate. One could make larger arguments that it doesn’t matter. That simply organizing 15,000 to show up can translate into political power such as grassroots efforts, fundraising, etc. Although as others have said, simply mustering the 15,000 for a public display in and of itself will have little effect. - Peggy SO-IL - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 10:09 am: Are children being taken out of school also today to be used as props? Did school district buses bring them to SPFLD? At school district expense? The MD [that’s Maryland] teachers union did that a few years back and the schools offered some public service credit for it. That didn’t go over well with the public. I don’t begrudge the teachers’ rights to take a vacation day to protest, but this is all a staged union agenda. Unions have outlived their usefulness in the US. Further, these folks need to be realistic. There is no money! How dare they try to squeeze the taxpayers for more in these trying times. And yes, a bunch of public trough beggar groups are in on this event as well. The public should not let itself be fooled. - John Ruberry - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 10:12 am: I work weekends a lot. But fewer state employees work on Saturday. Fact. For instance, teachers? Also, to Rich’s point about 15,000 at today’s rally. How are they getting there? Chartered buses for the most part. The Tea Party Express rally had just three buses–for speakers and staff. Two thousand ppl showed up in Springfield to attend the TPX–and got there by driving there or taking mass transit. It’s all a matter of perspective. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 10:15 am: OK, enough, John. You’ve made your points, several times. It’s getting old. Stop trolling. - John Ruberry - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 10:17 am: Hey Rich, a hit’s a hit. - RightGirl - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 10:52 am: The early crowds look like the Acorn masses from years ago, just different color t-shirts. - TJ - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 10:52 am: ==“Tomorrow’s rally will show there’s a lot of people in Illinois, a great majority, that don’t want draconian cuts in education,” Quinn said of [today’s] rally.== hmm….. a few thousand protesters who want a tax increase versus likely a few hundred thousand voters who absolutely don’t want a tax increase. Sorry….. even though it’d hurt me, I’m in support of a tax increase, but it ain’t going to happen. - Say WHAT? - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 11:00 am: Constituents says: NO TAX INCREASE! NOT NOW. THINGS ARE HARD ENOUGH. TELL STATE TO CUT AND TIGHTEN BELT - LIKE WE HAVE TO DURING THESE TIMES. Union employees say: Increase taxes - don’t cut ME! No bias here - strickly what I am hearing from both sides. - Pingu - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 11:14 am: Anyone having luck with the video feed? I get about a half-second of video and music (Message in a Bottle by The Police?) and then freeze up. - Jimbo - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 11:22 am: ==The Tea Party Express= John, look into who funds that. The Koch Brothers. You cannot be that uninformed. There are Tea parties that are not, but the Tea Party Express is totally astroturf dude. - Fed up - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 11:22 am: From the looks of the crowd the Gov’s early prison release program is in full swing. 15,000 alleged visitors to springpatch and a total $27.38 in economic activity by the visitors. - Living in Oklahoma - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 11:24 am: Instead of a Tax Increase I propose a “Telethon” of sorts for the State of Illinois. Public Television from all across the state could carry it. The State could ask big name entertainers from Illinois to answer the phones, and perform over the course of maybe 2 weeks. 24 hours a day and 7 days a week. Pictures could be shown of the great state parks, testimony from State Workers could be aired about how important their jobs are, and the impact they have on the poor and elderly. Maybe even Jerry Lewis could host a segment of the show just for a nice finishing flair. If Blago really cares about the people he would volunteer to dress up as a clown and be subjected to a “dunk Tank”, $10 per throw, that could raise millions. I am only half kidding. - Plutocrat03 - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 11:30 am: If we are to quibble about who is funding the Tea Party Express, why don’t we see who pays for the bus charters for every large Springfield rally? - Secret Square - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 11:38 am: “I propose a Telethon of sorts for the State of Illinois” There is a movie from the late 70s called “Americathon” that is based on a somewhat similar premise — the U.S. has gone bankrupt so the president (played by John Ritter) holds a celebrity telethon to raise money. Given all the Hollywood interest in remaking old movies and TV series from the 60s, 70s and 80s I’d think this would be ripe for a remake… - Say WHAT? - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 11:49 am: Rich, the live link does not work. - Jaybee - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 11:55 am: A moderator at the livestream site has confirmed that the live feed is down. Apparently they were trying to use a cell card to transmit, and - shockingly - the cell phone traffic out there is interfering. They say they’ll be posting the video later. - Cindy Lou - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 11:58 am: The yellow papers handed out this morning were chant sheets, I bet they’d hand one to Barton if he ask. - shore - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 12:14 pm: the video is not working so I can’t hear liberal activists complaining about how the liberal leadership they elected isn’t spending more liberally on their behalf. - truckertom - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 12:16 pm: Great post-great comments did you see about the live link post? thanks for the open spot,truckertom - Squideshi - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 12:19 pm: ==I work weekends a lot. But fewer state employees work on Saturday. Fact. For instance, teachers?== I can’t let that go. If you don’t think teachers work on Saturdays, you know nothing about the teaching profession. Not only do teachers work longer hours than the average employee during the school year–coming early and staying after for extracurricular activities–they’re also at home creating lesson plans, grading papers, and doing a wealth of other work-related activities. People think teachers get the summers off, but they make up that time during the school year. - Really?? - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 12:22 pm: Just I thought, the heavy union presence takes away from the human services message. There are plenty of state funded human services that do not utilize union workers. Not to mention the people that recieve these services are completely being left out of the discussion. 1000s of children, elderly and disabled individuals will now be without much needed services because of budget cuts. I don’t think these rallies do much in terms of changing legislators’ minds about voting…but you are missing the need argument for having human services funded. It should about the recipients of the services, not the providers. - Vote Quimby! - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 12:23 pm: Really!? A cell-phone feed? Really!?? - Jimbo - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 12:29 pm: I’m with you Plutocrat. The thing is that I know that SEIU and AFSCME paid for these, but John has no clue who paid for his. Also, Unions are controlled by members, not two dudes with a ton of cash. kthxbye - Montrose - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 12:29 pm: *Just I thought, the heavy union presence takes away from the human services message.* Agreed. A huge chunk of people attending the rally are those being impacted, but that is getting lost in the heavy union presence/control. It is unfortunate. Pushing the human services component to the fore makes for a much more sympathetic argument, but I think the unions have a real hard time getting their head around that. - Fed up - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 2:11 pm: “Unions are controlled by members”. Ahh to be young and naive again. Remember your vote counts you can make a Differance. - overtaxed - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 2:23 pm: What are they chanting? “SOS”? “Save Our Selves!” - 2010 - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 2:31 pm: Impressive turnout, however, everyone demonstrating could easily have their unions bosses cut their own salaries, move out of Chicago to pay less rent, and stop printing so much propaganda, therefore, lower union dues so the workers could have more money. But union management won’t do that. They want power, expense accounts, etc. so union dues continue to be collected. Part of the state’s problem is that the politicians are afraid to say “no” to the unions, therefore, we have to have bloated budgets, salaries, pensions, etc. funded by taxpayers and given to them. Enough already. - Quinn T. Sential - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 2:32 pm: This Just In……… Is the language included in SA 001 to SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT SC0120; scaling back the tenure of licensure from 10 years to 5 years agreed upon language, or is HARMON doing an end around on this issue? http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocTypeID=SJRCA&DocNum=120&GAID=10&SessionID=76&LegID=53241 - Plutocrat03 - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 2:43 pm: Would thes be the same union members who flit around in their corporate jet and enjoying multcourse gourmet dinners (paid for by the union treasury) while considering the next round of benefits the rank and file need? In some cases the union leadersip is just another boss to deal with. - Conservative Veteran - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 3:20 pm: My wife and I can barely pay our current state income taxes, and, in April, she was laid off from her job as a church secretary, since the church had financial problems. I don’t know anyone who wants to pay higher state income tax rates. - Winslow - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 3:58 pm: The state can cut all the waste it should and belt tighten until it really hurts BUT taxes will still need to be raised. Those who don’t want a tax increase also don’t want to be assaulted by the drug addict who can’t get treatment because of cuts or have their car hit by the DUI driver who the police could not prevent because of budget cuts, or see our kids not get an adequate education because of cuts. Pay now or pay more later. - Taxmandan - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 3:59 pm: Not a lot of starving union members at this rally. At least they all got some exercise on a beautiful day. - Jimbo - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 4:08 pm: So weren’t those union members out there today. Union dollars spent on union members, hmmm. So, CEO’s get to use private jets and expense accounts, but not union presidents? SEIU is massive dude. Check wall street execs, and then tell me that union bosses are overcompensated. Again, my supposed naivete aside, I saw union members, sponsored by their union (through their dues), demonstrate for policy in their own interest. Sounds different than a bunch of jingoistic ‘limited gubment’ ‘freedum’ ‘lern to speke American’ ’soshalist’ slogans that are designed to do nothing but rile up the republican base. And before you say something about the spelling, note that a lot of signs at these tea parties are in fact, misspelled, and some are racist. http://chattahbox.com/us/2010/01/04/racist-tea-party-leader-cant-spell-the-n-word/ - Jimbo - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 4:11 pm: Winslow, I think they would like to see cuts in Education. At least the leadership would. Didn’t St. Ronnie want to abolish the Department of Education? - A.B, - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 4:13 pm: Winslow - that can be simply addressed with responsible spending. If we didn’t build entitlement programs and operated within the budget we have available on an annual basis, many of these problems would not exist. It would be much easier to downsize and grow government programs on an annualized basis. - 2010 - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 4:17 pm: @Winslow There are so many areas that can still be cut before you take away law enforcement dollars. That’s simply a tactic to scare people. Cut the bloated salaries and pensions, heck, cut the amount of days legislators are in session that would cut per diem, electric bills, and more, cut pension even more, etc. etc. Cut the double dipping - why should an elected official get two bloated pensions funded by the taxpayer? Cut that instead of a policeman. Illinois does not need a $50,000,000,000 budget. - 2010 - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 4:22 pm: @ Jimbo. I’m on a roll today. The difference between corpoarate CEOs and their jets compared to union bosses spending money is the fact that union bosses spew rhetoric of protecting the “working man” and ensuring he has rights and fair wages yet union bosses take the “working man’s” wages via “union dues” and buys porter house steaks, have high priced office buildings, big old Cadillacs, and high expense accounts. That’s wrong on so many levels. - Really?? - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 4:56 pm: The Responsible Budget Coalition isn’t made up of only unions. In fact, a majority of the organizations that make it up are NOT unions. However, the unions huge presence (and I know I already made this point) completely changed what should have been the message of the RBC. Having all those purple t-shirts and then having most of the speakers be union leaders completely changes what should have been the message. Human service cuts are hurting those Illinois citizens most in need: children, the elderly, the disabled to name a few. And that SHOULD have been the message of the rally today…not unions. - steve schnorf - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 7:50 pm: I know 2 or 3 of the union guys who spoke today pretty well. Anyone who says they spend their time traveling around in private jets eating gourmet meals at union expense doesn’t know what they are talking about or they are flat out liars. - 4 percent - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 10:19 pm: Steve- are you still on the board of the CBTA, s union-backed group? I know union leaders that had gourmet dinners and played golf every day during the union strikes in Decatur in the 90s. Agree they don’t take corporate jets but they have plenty of perks. I also agree that they don’t do it for the money but rather the cause generally. - Peggy SO-IL - Wednesday, Apr 21, 10 @ 11:05 pm: Oh,Jinkies. I hope Squedishi (?) is not arguing that non-teacher salaried professionals in a variety of fields go home at 5 pm most days and rarely work weekends. – Brady needs to channel NJ’s Chris Cristie. — SEIU is hardly the most sympathetic group of people these days. – The functioning of state govt is so bad (and subject to union power perhaps?) apparently that the State Police don’t seem to be able to fire at will a trooper whose horrible negligence resulted in the deaths of 2 sisters on I-64 near O’Fallon, IL. The ISP has to go through various procedures, while the trooper doesn’t appear to get it that he really was negligent and drove dangerously and killed the girls. - wordslinger - Thursday, Apr 22, 10 @ 10:35 am: –Brady needs to channel NJ’s Chris Cristie.– You can all put that away. Under each state’s respective constitutions, the office of New Jersey governor is far more powerful than Illinois governor. Brady could not take the executive actions that Christie has if he wanted to. 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