* Rev. Sen. James Meeks has a well-known mouth problem. The problem is he continually inserts his foot into his mouth, particularly on the subject of race. From Fox Chicago…
On Wednesday, Chicago mayoral candidate James Meeks said that only African-Americans should be able to participate in affirmative action programs– and that Hispanics, Asians, and women should be excluded. Later, he tried to clarify his remarks.
Speaking to a candidates’ forum Wednesday on black-oriented WVON radio, the South Side state senator said it’s unacceptable that the share of city contracts going to African-American-owned businesses has shrunk in recent years.
“I think that the word ‘minority,’ from our standpoint, should mean African-American,” Meeks said. “I don’t think women, Asians and Hispanics should be able to use that title. That’s why our numbers cannot improve, because we use women, Asians and Hispanics, who are not people of color, who are not people who have been discriminated against. We fought for these laws based on discrimination. Now, groups that have not been discriminated against are the chief beneficiaries.” […]
Later on Wednesday night, Meeks attempted to clarify his earlier statement, and said that he would remove from City Hall affirmative action set-aside only businesses owned by “white women.”
Video…
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“People need those protections that are afforded in that term and the programs that go along with them. I think we need a broader set of protections, not a narrower set of protections,” Gery Chico said.
“I think what is needed is a greater outreach effort to make sure that we have qualified businesses who can contract,” Miguel del Valle said.
“I think the whole point of the set-asides is to integrate and bring people into our economy who had previously been excluded and that includes women and African Americans and Hispanics. There’s a whole list of people,” Carol Moseley Braun said.
* 3 black Chicago mayoral candidates agree on little
* Mayoral hopefuls enlisting help from corporate, civic worlds: “I just accepted this responsibility a week and a half ago,” said Willie Wilson, an entrepreneur and former McDonald’s franchisee, who is volunteering as U.S. Rep. Danny Davis’ finance chairman. “By the end of next week, I should have my arms around this thing.”
I’d like to see Sen. Meeks define what a ‘Minority’ is, because I can’t imagine under any definition how Hispanics and Asians would apply. I suppose this means gay owned buisnesses would go out the door too, but that shouldn’t suprise anybody
“The government should provide equal opportunity, not equal outcomes.”
That’s exactly what affirmanitive action programs are in place to do
- Joe from Joliet - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:23 am:
… a broader set …
I think what Chico means is:
“Why restrict those views to only the City of Chicago? Vote for me and the Rev/Sen can bring his attitude to the entire state of Illinois.”
Agree with Cincinnatus. Set-asides and % participation requirements have not worked to mainstream the targeted businesses. In trade-based industries, I’d expect that opening union apprentice participation would be more effective in the long run.
Setting aside the the policy issue of, um, set asides, you wonder sometimes if Meeks is crazy like a fox.
It seems to me it’s a raw appeal to perceived black anger in a crowded field including other black candidates. A nasty, dangerous game in a diverse city, especially in hard economic times — but maybe he thinks it gets him to the runoff where he can be the anti-Rahm, reverse course and start selling the “gospel” of unity.
Still, it’s hard to believe you can have the title “Reverend” in front of your name and peddle this stuff.
If Meeks argued that *all* setasides be eliminated, he may have a policy position with some legs, that would distinguish him from all the other candidates. By instead trying to limit protectionism to his core voting block, he comes across only a self-serving buffoon. LOL
“It seems to me it’s a raw appeal to perceived black anger in a crowded field including other black candidates. A nasty, dangerous game in a diverse city, especially in hard economic times — but maybe he thinks it gets him to the runoff where he can be the anti-Rahm, reverse course and start selling the “gospel” of unity.”
The Reverend Meeks is absolutely correct. Our minds must work the same. Because my ancestry is Irish-Catholic. And when they came over in the 1700s, they lived in Maryland. After the Whiskey Rebellion, they were forced to the south, where there were no jobs to be found… mainly because of slavery. They took our jobs! So, I think the Reverend Meeks owes me for his people taking the jobs of my people hundreds of years ago. I am now under-privileged in 2010 and it is all his fault.
So, Reverend Meeks wants to educate the populace on who has and hasn’t experienced discrimination? Apparently, he hasn’t been paying attention to the real world.
There’s an old saying that politics is a game of addition. Meeks seems to be trying to build a coalition through a game of subtraction. I don’t ever remember seeing that done successfully before.
Well, I suppose as the country becomes more diverse we will see more squabbling over who gets minority set-asides, affirmative action preference and other,similar assistance based on “minority” status. They have become another way of getting ahead in the game. That wasn’t the original intent of course, but sweeping social policies frequently have unintended consequences.
And it seems unlikely that our cowering politicians would have the courage to end minority set-asides.
Anyway, the Rev’s statements simply reinforce my
belief that Rahm will be the next mayor of Chicago. The rest is all noise and craziness.
Admittedly, I don’t know what the statistics are historically for the percentage of women that vote in Chicago. However, is it safe to assume that Senator Meeks just alienated a very large voting block when he says it is OK for women to be discriminated against?
- Phineas J. Whoopee - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:40 am:
I’m sure their is some bizzare political strategy occuring here but I don’t think the Rev realizes how far up on the “ick” meter he is going.
Meeks is doing even more poorly than I thought he would. Any over/under on if he cracks 10%. If he can’t even run a city campaign, he has no chance at the many statewide campaigns he has been rumored for in the past.
In Chicago a large part of what we pay our taxes for is this kind of political entertainment.
- He Makes Ryan Look Like a Saint - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:48 am:
Does anyone have the breakdown of the population of Chicago/Cook County? It would really be interesting to see who is the real “Minority”.
- Living in Oklahoma - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:51 am:
Its funny watching people say idiotic things. Of course Affirmative action on its face is ridiculous, but whatever. Just another example of how Illinois is god awful.
- Grandson of Man - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:52 am:
So women (for one) were not discriminated against, Sen. Meeks? What a joke. Mr. Meeks, if you’re reading this blog, please stop pandering to your constituents.
It is my understanding that there is no single “ethnic” group in Chicago that commands a 50% voting majority. I believe it can be seen as almost thirds. 1/3 white, 1/3 hispanic and 1/3 black, or thereabouts. Scooby is dead on in stating that politics is a game of addition. Where is Meeks gonna get his majority? It seems clear that, at this point, he wants to garner the most votes of the AA community and try to spin his statements later. He did a little of that later by saying that white women should not be included in the “minority set aside” group.
Gov’t should insure, not provide, equal opportunity as a starting point. Minority set asides insure a type of outcome in a bidding process. It means some folk who are qualified and have the lowest bid won’t win the contract. Unfair. If the bidding process is truly fair, no one gets a leg up. If you are a minority owned company and post the lowest bid, you win. No one should know the ethnic make up of the bidder. Those who know how to game the system are getting around the process. It doesn’t work. End it.
- Phineas J. Whoopee - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:53 am:
BTW, is anyone challenging Meeks to be on the ballot? I’m sure his signatures wouldn’t be accepted at an identity theft anonymous meeting.
===Minority set asides insure a type of outcome in a bidding process. ===
As opposed to the good ol’ white boy network? Have you ever been to Chicago?
- paddyrollingstone - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:55 am:
Niles Township - I’d go a step further - he has no chance to move up - State or Countywide. The only tthing he could move up to would be a seat in Congress. That might work for him - he would be like Jesse Jr - who is stuck in a job he cannot lose and a job from which he cannot move up. Meeks is a major disapointment from a political junkie’s perspective. Except he is interesting.
I’ve heard black legislators say this in committee meetings at the Capitol before. I was testifying at a committee hearing one time for a major state agency budget and Rep. Monique Davis asked about our minority hiring and headcount. When we started to respond and were talking about hispanics, asians, women, etc., she interrupted and said she didn’t care about those and that minorities were african americans. I think what Sen. Meeks said is probably a view that is held by more african americans than people think.
It’s time for Meeks to drop out. The more he speaks the more he cannot gain the broad support he needs and the more his reputration suffers among many who previously had high regard for him. Candidates should take a lesson from Toni Preckwinkle’s successful and essentially “raceless” campaign. That’s what most voters these days expect, and are looking for in candidates. Ditch the divisive identity politics and work for solutions.
I have been to Chicago. I have been to alot of places. Life isn’t fair no matter where you go. No doubt about it. If you’all think that a minority set aside process fixes those problems remember who administers it. The same people who run the show already. The minority set aside process is just as flawed and corrupt as the rest of the system. No one should be surprised by that. I’m not.
Regardless of the general merits of affirmative action, I’m not sure how replacing one set of privileged machine insiders with privileged machine insiders of a different race really accomplishes much.
- Pot calling kettle - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 11:14 am:
In politics you can try to build a coalition based on affinities or cut out a group based on differences. Meeks is clearly trying to do the latter, which might work in a gerrymandered legislative district. But, in a city as diverse as Chicago, it’s difficult to see how slicing out a small chunk of the electorate can get him anywhere close to the mayor’s office.
Time for me to stop reading stories about February. They are too painful. One of these guys (sorry JBT — you have no chance) is going to be Mayor? We can’t do better than this?
With regard to Meeks specifically — why is anybody shocked? There has been a significant history of black leadership showing signs of racism since at least the late 1970s. Somehow though there does not seem to be any outrage.
The Rev Meeks is speaking a rather unpopular truth.
AA is supposed to benefit those who were historically LEGALLY discriminated against in the past. Now it so happens that laws passed 1964~1968 made such things illegal.
It also happens that the vast majority (90%+) of hispanics and asians arrived in the US AFTER those laws were passed.
So, they were not hurt as were blacks. So why SHOULD they benefit?
And what prevents the US from becoming Malaysia? There, the numerically dominant Malays limit college access to the minority Chinese, and also contracts. No legal discrimination, just they want “equal outcomes” and after some 40 years they are still at it.
Pat Collins, that is not true. Affirmative action was mandated by President Kennedy in 1961 “to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin.” The quota system and minority owned buisnesses were instituted under Nixon in 1969 and 1971, and applied to all minorities, not just African Americans.
@Pat Collins “It also happens that the vast majority (90%+) of hispanics and asians arrived in the US AFTER those laws were passed.”
Really? Who says? Check your facts sir. You can start with Mexican-Americans and their roots in what are now California, Arizona, Texas, etc. And then Puerto Ricans, see Spanish American War…something about 1899…and then, STOP YOURSELF!
–If they really want to help minorities, why don’t they create a program to aid conservative Republicans in getting contracts in Chicago.–
Are you serious? You must be under the impression that Daley is a liberal Democrat. Who do you think runs those law firms, investment banks, financial consulting firms, and other businesses at the trough of pinstripe patronage?
Thanks for reminding me that Nixon implemented this horrific program. Nixon’s grasp of the economy was atrocious, wage-price controls also comes to mind.
Kennedy had it right, no discrimination for anyone.
The Rev. Meeks has never been a white woman so how would he know if they are a group that has been discrminated against? Perhaps he should look at the statistics that clearly show women ingeneral (regardless of race) receive less pay for the same jobs as their male counterparts.
@Pat Collins- Hispanics and Asians have lived in this country for over 150 years. For example, Japanese Americans were put in internment camps during WWII, solely based on their ethnicity. Other Asian Americans also have many stories to share throughout history that occurred before 1960 and through the present. It is not true that 90%+ of the Hispanic and APA population came to the U.S. after 1965.
This is coming from a white male. There is no doubt in my mind that blacks, Hispanics, Asians and women have all been and still are discriminated against. It has diminished greatly over the last 50 years but the bigotry is still out there. Anybody who thinks there is no “good ol’ white boy network” still out there should spend more time on the golf course listening to the jokes being told. All those groups end up spending time as the punch line. You can’t tell me those same people telling the jokes don’t lean toward giving the jobs and contracts to one of their own.
Meeks is wrong but it is difficult to quantify percentages for such intangible discretion’s. Affirmative Actions may have many flaws but I think there have been many benefits. The number of minority contractors is way higher than it use to be.
- El Conquistador - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 11:51 am:
What Senator Meeks said (as usual) is horrifically wrong. There is, however, a small nugget of truth that he failed to mine with his rabid comments. The affirmative action provision for women is easier to manipulate than it is for other classifications. How many businesses are incorporated in a wife’s name specifically to take advantage of affirmative action in contracting?
Meeks has a valid point, but the politics of it are horrible for him.
The difficulty with affirmative action problems is that they do tend to spread - African-Americans, Latinos from a wide range of backgrounds / ethnicities, Asians, Native Americans, women, gays / lesbians… Pretty soon we are talking well over 60, 70% of the U.S. population, as “minorities.” The bigger the coalition you label as “minority,” the more political sway you have. But the less coherent the concept becomes.
I think it’s true, though it’s controversial I know to say it, that African-Americans and Native Americans have an absolutely distinctive, horrific experience of discrimination / oppression in the U.S. context. No other group matches them, though of course others have suffered greatly.
For example, Latinos have absolutely been discriminated against in the U.S., and continue to be so today. But they weren’t brought here in chains, sold at whipping posts and had to watch their women legally raped by white men for decades. Their experience in the 20th century (very roughly generalizing) is somewhat more similar to the experience of the Irish immigrants in the 19th century, or Eastern Europeans in the early 20th. And no one to my knowledge is calling for open hiring procedures for Irishmen in Chicago.
So actually, I might be open to the idea that affirmative action programs should take special account of the discrimination against African-Americans and Native Americans. However, the politics again of this are awful, and as a politician, Meeks just stepped into the hornet’s nest with his comments. You have to tread extremely cautiously here, as a public figure.
- 32nd Ward Roscoe Village - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 12:07 pm:
“[white] women…are not people who have been discriminated against.” Doesn’t the Reverend watch MAD MEN?
According to a September 2010 Bureau of Labor Statistics study, the wage gap has shrunk to 83% as a result of economic conditions (men have been harder hit than women in this recession), more women entering traditional “male” professions, and women within a profession moving up the food chain within their company. Young women are actually now outperforming their male counterparts. While there is no doubt that past discrimination started women at a large gap, they are making up that gap at an ever increasing rate within the last decade. The wage gap disparity should disappear (using a linear projection) within a generation. This conclusion is made using a direct comparison of wages in the same job, none of this is based on the “comparable job category” nonsense.
RE: Black/White Pay Gap
Here the situation is much worse. The US Census Bureau study from July 2010 shows a narrowing of the gap between Blacks and Whites, but it still stands at an atrocious 58%. As bad as this is, the gap in household income is an equally bad 60%. So, blacks are making less per capita, and on a household basis. The household basis is mainly attributed to the lack of two-adult families.
Now, will set-asides improve the Women/Man gap situation? Probably not since this gap is closing on its own and will take less than a generation to equilibrate.
More interesting are the root causes of the Black/White gap. Is it a result of discrimination, or the inequality of the qualifications of the individuals. This gap concerns me much more than the Women/Men gap. I doubt job set-asides are the answer. These plans just rob the tax payers and governments of revenues that could better be directed into areas improving the qualifications of blacks. There are several social/family structure problems that also need to be addressed.
And this is the area that Rev. Meeks should focus on.
Why is it ok for Mr. Meeks to make racist comments and not get shouted down by all of the other candidates? Why is it ok for an african american politician to be racist?
If Mr. Emanual or any other white candidate for mayor were to make similar comments, the person would be drawn, quartered and hanged by ALL of the other candidates in the mayoral contest.
Maybe Meeks strategy is to combine the Black vote and the conservative vote to get into the two person mayoral run-off. Then again, that would give him more credit for thinking before he speaks than he deserves.
Meeks is an expert when it comes to firing up his base. Its all show business and its gonna keep getting better and better. Maybe Jr has cut off the money and this is the Rev’s way of getting free media.
To wordslingers point, if Meeks made the runoff, whites would be so afraid that we would relive the 1983 election. In this case, it wouldn’t be Bernie Elton who benefits, but rather the other candidate to make the runoff.
This was a brainless thing for Meeks to do. I don’t buy the crazy like a fox theory. More like just crazy.
I am not AA, but IMO, the AA community should tell the three AA Mayoral candiates to exit the race, they are not their best nor the brightest by a long shot, they are an embarassment…does Rahm represent all white folks in this race? Does Del Valle represent all Hispanics?
This is 2010 isn’t it?
Get over yourselves Meeks, Braun, and Davis!
No one ordained you to run but yourself!
There is no doubt in my mind that blacks, Hispanics, Asians and women have all been and still are discriminated against.
————————–
OK, but so have the Jews and they seem be doing pretty well without affirmative action. At some point affirmative action simply breeds government reliance rather than private sector ingenuity.
The state set-aside program general applies to “disadvantaged” business (DBE) that can be owned by minorities and/or women who fall below specific income levels. The City program has no income limits and splits its set-asides into Minority Owned Business (MBE) and Women Owned Businesses (WBE). State professional contracts general require 20-30% goals for DBE’s while Chicago contracts split 25% MBE and 5% WBE. The lion’s share of City Set-asides already go to MBE’s not WBE’s so changing the forumla for set-asides is not a solutions to Meed’s percieved problem.
The state and city set-aside programs general follow some version of a federal program. My biggest problem with them their refusal to follow fed guidelines and even consider set-asides for Veteran owned businesses, specifically businesses owned by veterans who were wounded in the line of duty. All things being equal, preference for tax-payer funded contracts should go to those service-disabled vets first.
Your post triggered a thought in my mind. How about no set-asides, low bidder only. If tied, preference given to disabled vets to acknowledge their sacrifice for the country. Other than that no preferences allowed. Is that fair?
This discussion is the best example of why the government should get out of the business of picking winners and losers.
Can anyone say with a straight face that there are no white men in this country who have had few or no opportunities in their lives? There are numerous examples of so called minorities seeking special treatment when they are already well off.
When you classify AAs, Hispanics, Asians and women as being superior in the hiring process by government edict, are you not then discriminating against who is left?
Statements like Rev. Meeks made would be denounced by all if the minority names were changed around.
It is time to put away the blather and allow merit and the best qualified low bidders to get on with what needs doing regardless of gender or race.
We live in one of the most segregated cities in America. Discrimination has not ended just because we are in 2010. When we live in a more desegregated city, then we can talk about eliminating the affirmative action programs. I also think people generally think affirmative action is solely race based, and forget that white women are the biggest beneficiaries of the program, simply because their population is larger than the others.
It is not true that 90%+ of the Hispanic and APA population came to the U.S. after 1965. (and similar sentiments from two others)
It’s actually quite trivial to prove I am more right than wrong. I never said there were NO asians/hispanics. Just that their population growth was driven by immigration. Especially Asian, since they have less than replacement birth rate. Hispanic growth is about equal immigration and post 1970 immigrant’s birth rates. http://www.census.gov/population/www/pop-profile/natproj.html
==Maybe Meeks strategy is to combine the Black vote and the conservative vote==
I’m just guessing here. You don’t know, or talk to many Conservatives do you?
- Grandson of Man - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 3:54 pm:
It’s not surprising that Rev. Meeks would want AA only for African Americans, since he wants only legally-recognized heterosexual partnerships. Gay people have had to endure legal discrimination, but Sen. Meeks doesn’t see the similarity between gays and African Americans, and neither does many of his constituents/church members.
Willie Wilson is a great guy who has done a lot for the community. I hate to see him involve himself in this mess. I hope he didn’t give Danny any money.
A true shame that such racism exists, particularly in those who get elected. Meeks is part of the problem.
- Ain't No Justice - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 5:53 pm:
Meeks does it again! I wish I could make as much $$ as my male counterpart. What makes him think that “they” are the only minority. The USA is a melting pot…HELLO?
How about we just get rid of all set asides and base the decisions, “where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.”
I agree with the remarks that Meeks seems to feel free to be a racist and others would not get away with it. It’s tiresome and he will only create more wedges and discrimination for those he would claim to represent.
Also…I share the sentiment of other women posters. I would love to make as much money as many younger, inexperienced men (with less education) and who have less responsibilty. Keep talking Meeks…While I have no “horse” in this race, I know I do not want you. Oh yeah, this is the same “minister” who invited Cohen (another good male role model) to his church to campaign. (I wonder if there was a contribution in it for him?)
Friends,I studies sociology as an undergrad and grad student. The discussion thus far has neglected to mention the notion of white skin privilege (WSP). I am not a defender of Rev. Meeks, but I think his suggestion that white women not be included as a minority group may have a lot to do with the fact that post the Women’s Revolution, white women have benefitted from affirmative action more than any other group, as someone else pointed out. And let’s not forget that Affirmative Action was originally intended for African Americans, as an attempt to level the playing field and make amends for historical injustices and inequalities that unfairly denied African Americans professional and educational opportunities.
The fact that white women have benefitted more from affirmative action likely stems from the fact that in their case their skin color affords them certain advantages in spite of their gender. It is unfortunate, but true that white men tend to favor white women in professional and educational settings and that there is an underlying assumption on the part of many white men and white women that white women are naturally somehow the heirs apparent to opportunities for advancement that were once exclusively enjoyed by white men. Just look at people in positions of authority. The positions are still dominated by white males, but with white women clearly in second place. The white male is still in a position to pick who he wants and where he wants them. When white women, who follow in the foot steps of white men get into positions of power, they tend to pick and promote other white women.
WSP can also be granted to white Hispanics and Asians, who have fair skin complexions, as white people may feel more comfortable with them and favor them more as “preferred minorities” over African Americans. For example, in the legal profession more African American attorneys have felt the sting of the recession and have been displaced from law firms at a disproportionate rate in comparison to Hispanic and Asian attorneys.
Admittedly it may not be the case in all regions of the U.S. that white Hispanics and Asians are favored more because in California for example, Asians are more likely to be outspoken on subjects of race and ethnicity than Asians in Illinois. There they will talk about discrimination, and they tend to point out that very rarely are they considered for leadership positions e.g., CEO etc., but tend to be relegated to 2nd or 3rd tier leadership positions. Of course there is a larger percentage of persons of Asian descent on the West Coast and so that may be why they experience greater prejudice and discrimination than anywhere else in the country.
I like this guy more and more and more. Obviously he’s right. you can’t discriminate on the basis of race, sex, religion. 14th Amendment, folks. The ‘payback for discrimination’ argument is a crock in Cook County. Daley used it to build his big majority using our money. Now he’s gone, time for this to go too. This ongoing discrimination is ripe for a Shakman-like case. Maybe I’ll file the sucker.
If the State R’s have any brains, they’ll wait for this election to end then solicit Meeks into the Party. He wants vouchers (I do too), but his current party can’t do it because of union support. He opposes civil unions on principle, his current party despises him for it. I think the guy’s got real character. I wonder if the State R’s still have enough to lure him in.
Park, the Republicans in Illinois and nationally have made it clear that they are not interested in African Americans as candidates or a base. Meeks going Republican would be foolhardy on his part. Republicans haven’t really extended a hand toward him other than in superficial ways.
If he were Hispanic, the Republicans would have swooped him up by now.
Yes Rich. I wish we could just get rid of all set aside programs. I wish we were in a place where it did not matter if you are a man, woman, Caucasian, African-American, Hispanic, Asian/Pacific Islander, Tall, Short, Disabled, Skinny, Obese, Gay, Lesbian, Transgendered. That all that mattered was if you could accomplish the goal of a job, that you could be judged on that. Not like the games that go on.
all the banter about the good Sen. becoming a GOP, remember according to some hes the next head of Push. How come Jesse Sr. isn’t doing a photo op ? HA
@ BF…..actually…. and here’s an ugly filp side truth, the same truth that we are faced with today. men of color, and recent immigrants, voted in higher percentages than white men against the suffrage referendum. as for whether white men support white women, we could write a whole dissertation on young white men who did not support Hillary. they spent their time on line savaging her. the sexism was astounding.
This reminds me of a scene I witnessed in Wal-Mart. Two individuals using the Wal-Mart motorized scooters got into a traffic jam in front of the Velveeta display and started shouting that the other needed to move their scooter. Neither individual believed that they were capable of stepping out of their motorized shopping scooter, just as they had when they walked from their parked cars into the store. Neither wanted the other to know that they could get up and move on their own accord, under their own power. Both clung to their perceived mobility situation in order to out guilt the other.
What we have here are people clinging to their public shortcomings in order to enjoy the comforts provided without costs by the rest of us and arguing over who has the greatest shortcomings.
I say we demand Meeks immediate resignation from the Senate for making this comment!! Fair is Fair
- Steve Pampagana - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 9:50 pm:
Many WBE (Women Businesses) are fronts for white men–that is a fact proven with case after case and many businesses and families I know. It is a mechanism to get contracts and favortism.
There has been discrimination against women and Sen Meeks was probably insensetive and impolite BUT the fact that white women get the biggest part of the affirmative action contracting pie that means that there is an issue–especially if they are fronting for their husband. Also the life of an average Black or Hispanic man is still more difficult than the average white woman even if you just measure that in the United States. White woman are people of privilege and wealth on the whole understanding their are white women in poverty etc. White woman benefit from their husbands and fathers wealth and work that sometimes ignores communities with people of color in them. Slave Masters had white wives who lived privileged lives. The lives of investment bankers, bankers etc are priviliged.
There are other forms of discrimination against women and different roles some of which are forced and unnecessary.
The other part of the Affirmative Action debate that Sen Meeks got right is the political and corrupt nature of contracting. If you get Victor Reyes as your lobbyist or you are part of UNO than that helps particular Hispanic businesses and families connected to a certain clique but does not help the community as a whole. Daley has given contracts to his friends (as did Rod Blago) like the Duffs who were minority fronts and corrupt and just bad people. Most Hispanics don’t benefit from the handful of politically connected contractors.
What about Filipinos? We get grouped in with either Hispanics because of our Spanish names or Asians.
The same names end up on Chicago and Illinois contracts. Maybe because they are suited to do it and others are not and maybe they are qualified and do a good job–but Mike Tadin, Freddie Barbara, McDonough, Walsh etc or the lawyers they use like Mike Daley or the insurance they buy from John Daley or the few minorities like Victor Reyes, Dominic Delgaldo, Juan Ochoa doling out contracts (which break the law) under Rod.
This is a complicated issue and a way to spur discussion and debate. Sen Meeks was not sensitive in what he said and wrong in part but also brought out a truth about affirmative action that needs to be addressed.
The original theory was that African-Americans had unique problems due to the cultural legacy of slavery. In order to garner political support, preferences were then expanded to just about everyone except white males.
Personally, I’m not convinced set-asides are right for anyone in 2010… but if they are, the best case is for African-Americans descended from slaves (as opposed to recent Caribbean or African immigrants), and there is less logic for all the other groups.
And to the extent that the program is spread so thin, whatever good it could do for African-Americans gets diluted.
- The REAL Anonymous fka Anonymous - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 11:55 pm:
=You don’t know, or talk to many Conservatives do you?=
Hmmm…please define “Conservative” for me–or at least be kind enough to set the context for your comment, Responsa.
- Cheryl44 - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:18 am:
You know what? Who cares what he thinks. He’s not going to be mayor.
- Emanuel Collective - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:18 am:
I’d like to see Sen. Meeks define what a ‘Minority’ is, because I can’t imagine under any definition how Hispanics and Asians would apply. I suppose this means gay owned buisnesses would go out the door too, but that shouldn’t suprise anybody
- Cincinnatus - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:18 am:
Rev. Meeks is almost right. Set asides should be eliminated for ALL groups. The government should provide equal opportunity, not equal outcomes.
- Emanuel Collective - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:23 am:
“The government should provide equal opportunity, not equal outcomes.”
That’s exactly what affirmanitive action programs are in place to do
- Joe from Joliet - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:23 am:
… a broader set …
I think what Chico means is:
“Why restrict those views to only the City of Chicago? Vote for me and the Rev/Sen can bring his attitude to the entire state of Illinois.”
- just sayin' - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:24 am:
Meeks should call Burt Odelson at the Emanuel hearing and tell him to throw in the towel. It’s over for Meeks.
- hawksfan - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:25 am:
That won’t be the last time he backtracks on comments he makes. At least he keeps things interesting.
- cleavon little - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:25 am:
great! now i can’t get blazing saddles outta my head
- JustaJoe - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:25 am:
Agree with Cincinnatus. Set-asides and % participation requirements have not worked to mainstream the targeted businesses. In trade-based industries, I’d expect that opening union apprentice participation would be more effective in the long run.
- wordslinger - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:26 am:
Setting aside the the policy issue of, um, set asides, you wonder sometimes if Meeks is crazy like a fox.
It seems to me it’s a raw appeal to perceived black anger in a crowded field including other black candidates. A nasty, dangerous game in a diverse city, especially in hard economic times — but maybe he thinks it gets him to the runoff where he can be the anti-Rahm, reverse course and start selling the “gospel” of unity.
Still, it’s hard to believe you can have the title “Reverend” in front of your name and peddle this stuff.
- Anonymous - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:28 am:
If Meeks argued that *all* setasides be eliminated, he may have a policy position with some legs, that would distinguish him from all the other candidates. By instead trying to limit protectionism to his core voting block, he comes across only a self-serving buffoon. LOL
- Emanuel Collective - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:29 am:
“It seems to me it’s a raw appeal to perceived black anger in a crowded field including other black candidates. A nasty, dangerous game in a diverse city, especially in hard economic times — but maybe he thinks it gets him to the runoff where he can be the anti-Rahm, reverse course and start selling the “gospel” of unity.”
The patented Fast Eddie maneuver.
- Scooby - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:31 am:
@cleavon little, thanks for the laugh
- Heartless Libertarian - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:33 am:
The Reverend Meeks is absolutely correct. Our minds must work the same. Because my ancestry is Irish-Catholic. And when they came over in the 1700s, they lived in Maryland. After the Whiskey Rebellion, they were forced to the south, where there were no jobs to be found… mainly because of slavery. They took our jobs! So, I think the Reverend Meeks owes me for his people taking the jobs of my people hundreds of years ago. I am now under-privileged in 2010 and it is all his fault.
- Aldyth - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:33 am:
So, Reverend Meeks wants to educate the populace on who has and hasn’t experienced discrimination? Apparently, he hasn’t been paying attention to the real world.
- Scooby - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:33 am:
There’s an old saying that politics is a game of addition. Meeks seems to be trying to build a coalition through a game of subtraction. I don’t ever remember seeing that done successfully before.
- cassandra - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:36 am:
Well, I suppose as the country becomes more diverse we will see more squabbling over who gets minority set-asides, affirmative action preference and other,similar assistance based on “minority” status. They have become another way of getting ahead in the game. That wasn’t the original intent of course, but sweeping social policies frequently have unintended consequences.
And it seems unlikely that our cowering politicians would have the courage to end minority set-asides.
Anyway, the Rev’s statements simply reinforce my
belief that Rahm will be the next mayor of Chicago. The rest is all noise and craziness.
- Seriously??? - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:39 am:
Admittedly, I don’t know what the statistics are historically for the percentage of women that vote in Chicago. However, is it safe to assume that Senator Meeks just alienated a very large voting block when he says it is OK for women to be discriminated against?
- Phineas J. Whoopee - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:40 am:
I’m sure their is some bizzare political strategy occuring here but I don’t think the Rev realizes how far up on the “ick” meter he is going.
- Leroy - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:41 am:
Well, at least he didn’t say they were going to burn in hell….that’s kind of an improvement….
- Niles Township - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:42 am:
Meeks is doing even more poorly than I thought he would. Any over/under on if he cracks 10%. If he can’t even run a city campaign, he has no chance at the many statewide campaigns he has been rumored for in the past.
- been there - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:48 am:
In Chicago a large part of what we pay our taxes for is this kind of political entertainment.
- He Makes Ryan Look Like a Saint - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:48 am:
Does anyone have the breakdown of the population of Chicago/Cook County? It would really be interesting to see who is the real “Minority”.
- Living in Oklahoma - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:51 am:
Its funny watching people say idiotic things. Of course Affirmative action on its face is ridiculous, but whatever. Just another example of how Illinois is god awful.
- Grandson of Man - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:52 am:
So women (for one) were not discriminated against, Sen. Meeks? What a joke. Mr. Meeks, if you’re reading this blog, please stop pandering to your constituents.
- dupage dan - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:52 am:
It is my understanding that there is no single “ethnic” group in Chicago that commands a 50% voting majority. I believe it can be seen as almost thirds. 1/3 white, 1/3 hispanic and 1/3 black, or thereabouts. Scooby is dead on in stating that politics is a game of addition. Where is Meeks gonna get his majority? It seems clear that, at this point, he wants to garner the most votes of the AA community and try to spin his statements later. He did a little of that later by saying that white women should not be included in the “minority set aside” group.
Gov’t should insure, not provide, equal opportunity as a starting point. Minority set asides insure a type of outcome in a bidding process. It means some folk who are qualified and have the lowest bid won’t win the contract. Unfair. If the bidding process is truly fair, no one gets a leg up. If you are a minority owned company and post the lowest bid, you win. No one should know the ethnic make up of the bidder. Those who know how to game the system are getting around the process. It doesn’t work. End it.
- Phineas J. Whoopee - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:53 am:
BTW, is anyone challenging Meeks to be on the ballot? I’m sure his signatures wouldn’t be accepted at an identity theft anonymous meeting.
- Rich Miller - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:53 am:
===Minority set asides insure a type of outcome in a bidding process. ===
As opposed to the good ol’ white boy network? Have you ever been to Chicago?
- paddyrollingstone - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:55 am:
Niles Township - I’d go a step further - he has no chance to move up - State or Countywide. The only tthing he could move up to would be a seat in Congress. That might work for him - he would be like Jesse Jr - who is stuck in a job he cannot lose and a job from which he cannot move up. Meeks is a major disapointment from a political junkie’s perspective. Except he is interesting.
- Demoralized - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:55 am:
I’ve heard black legislators say this in committee meetings at the Capitol before. I was testifying at a committee hearing one time for a major state agency budget and Rep. Monique Davis asked about our minority hiring and headcount. When we started to respond and were talking about hispanics, asians, women, etc., she interrupted and said she didn’t care about those and that minorities were african americans. I think what Sen. Meeks said is probably a view that is held by more african americans than people think.
- Emanuel Collective - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:56 am:
“If the bidding process is truly fair, no one gets a leg up.”
1.Doing buisness in Chicago isn’t fair
2.Society isn’t fair
Want to take a guess which groups of people those two factors work against the most?
- really? - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:59 am:
comically he now he makes Hollywood Henderson look sane
- Responsa - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 11:00 am:
It’s time for Meeks to drop out. The more he speaks the more he cannot gain the broad support he needs and the more his reputration suffers among many who previously had high regard for him. Candidates should take a lesson from Toni Preckwinkle’s successful and essentially “raceless” campaign. That’s what most voters these days expect, and are looking for in candidates. Ditch the divisive identity politics and work for solutions.
- amalia - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 11:04 am:
Hey Reverend, African American men have had the right to vote in Illinois decades longer than any woman. Bite me.
- dupage dan - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 11:09 am:
Rich,
I have been to Chicago. I have been to alot of places. Life isn’t fair no matter where you go. No doubt about it. If you’all think that a minority set aside process fixes those problems remember who administers it. The same people who run the show already. The minority set aside process is just as flawed and corrupt as the rest of the system. No one should be surprised by that. I’m not.
- Anonymous - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 11:13 am:
Regardless of the general merits of affirmative action, I’m not sure how replacing one set of privileged machine insiders with privileged machine insiders of a different race really accomplishes much.
- Pot calling kettle - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 11:14 am:
In politics you can try to build a coalition based on affinities or cut out a group based on differences. Meeks is clearly trying to do the latter, which might work in a gerrymandered legislative district. But, in a city as diverse as Chicago, it’s difficult to see how slicing out a small chunk of the electorate can get him anywhere close to the mayor’s office.
- Skeeter - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 11:18 am:
Time for me to stop reading stories about February. They are too painful. One of these guys (sorry JBT — you have no chance) is going to be Mayor? We can’t do better than this?
With regard to Meeks specifically — why is anybody shocked? There has been a significant history of black leadership showing signs of racism since at least the late 1970s. Somehow though there does not seem to be any outrage.
At what point are people going stand up to it?
- Pat collins - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 11:18 am:
The Rev Meeks is speaking a rather unpopular truth.
AA is supposed to benefit those who were historically LEGALLY discriminated against in the past. Now it so happens that laws passed 1964~1968 made such things illegal.
It also happens that the vast majority (90%+) of hispanics and asians arrived in the US AFTER those laws were passed.
So, they were not hurt as were blacks. So why SHOULD they benefit?
And what prevents the US from becoming Malaysia? There, the numerically dominant Malays limit college access to the minority Chinese, and also contracts. No legal discrimination, just they want “equal outcomes” and after some 40 years they are still at it.
- boocoo - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 11:24 am:
If they really want to help minorities, why don’t they create a program to aid conservative Republicans in getting contracts in Chicago.
- Emanuel Collective - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 11:26 am:
Pat Collins, that is not true. Affirmative action was mandated by President Kennedy in 1961 “to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin.” The quota system and minority owned buisnesses were instituted under Nixon in 1969 and 1971, and applied to all minorities, not just African Americans.
- GetOverIt - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 11:27 am:
@Pat Collins “It also happens that the vast majority (90%+) of hispanics and asians arrived in the US AFTER those laws were passed.”
Really? Who says? Check your facts sir. You can start with Mexican-Americans and their roots in what are now California, Arizona, Texas, etc. And then Puerto Ricans, see Spanish American War…something about 1899…and then, STOP YOURSELF!
- wordslinger - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 11:28 am:
–If they really want to help minorities, why don’t they create a program to aid conservative Republicans in getting contracts in Chicago.–
Are you serious? You must be under the impression that Daley is a liberal Democrat. Who do you think runs those law firms, investment banks, financial consulting firms, and other businesses at the trough of pinstripe patronage?
- GetOverIt - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 11:30 am:
@Wordslinger:
She Gone! Right, a “Chicago Democrat” is nothing more than a liberal Republican…
- Reality - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 11:33 am:
Meeks=Jesse Jackson-Al Sharpton WANNABE
- Rich Miller - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 11:36 am:
boocoo, I’m pretty sure you were being sarcastic, but are you saying you were born that way?
- Cincinnatus - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 11:36 am:
Emanuel Collective,
Thanks for reminding me that Nixon implemented this horrific program. Nixon’s grasp of the economy was atrocious, wage-price controls also comes to mind.
Kennedy had it right, no discrimination for anyone.
- Fed-Up - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 11:37 am:
The Rev. Meeks has never been a white woman so how would he know if they are a group that has been discrminated against? Perhaps he should look at the statistics that clearly show women ingeneral (regardless of race) receive less pay for the same jobs as their male counterparts.
- Democratic Voter - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 11:41 am:
@Pat Collins- Hispanics and Asians have lived in this country for over 150 years. For example, Japanese Americans were put in internment camps during WWII, solely based on their ethnicity. Other Asian Americans also have many stories to share throughout history that occurred before 1960 and through the present. It is not true that 90%+ of the Hispanic and APA population came to the U.S. after 1965.
- Been There - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 11:42 am:
This is coming from a white male. There is no doubt in my mind that blacks, Hispanics, Asians and women have all been and still are discriminated against. It has diminished greatly over the last 50 years but the bigotry is still out there. Anybody who thinks there is no “good ol’ white boy network” still out there should spend more time on the golf course listening to the jokes being told. All those groups end up spending time as the punch line. You can’t tell me those same people telling the jokes don’t lean toward giving the jobs and contracts to one of their own.
Meeks is wrong but it is difficult to quantify percentages for such intangible discretion’s. Affirmative Actions may have many flaws but I think there have been many benefits. The number of minority contractors is way higher than it use to be.
- El Conquistador - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 11:51 am:
What Senator Meeks said (as usual) is horrifically wrong. There is, however, a small nugget of truth that he failed to mine with his rabid comments. The affirmative action provision for women is easier to manipulate than it is for other classifications. How many businesses are incorporated in a wife’s name specifically to take advantage of affirmative action in contracting?
- Seriously??? - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 11:51 am:
Please note that the affirmative action law from 1961 doesn’t include gender. (as described by Emanuel Collective)
- ZC - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 12:04 pm:
Meeks has a valid point, but the politics of it are horrible for him.
The difficulty with affirmative action problems is that they do tend to spread - African-Americans, Latinos from a wide range of backgrounds / ethnicities, Asians, Native Americans, women, gays / lesbians… Pretty soon we are talking well over 60, 70% of the U.S. population, as “minorities.” The bigger the coalition you label as “minority,” the more political sway you have. But the less coherent the concept becomes.
I think it’s true, though it’s controversial I know to say it, that African-Americans and Native Americans have an absolutely distinctive, horrific experience of discrimination / oppression in the U.S. context. No other group matches them, though of course others have suffered greatly.
For example, Latinos have absolutely been discriminated against in the U.S., and continue to be so today. But they weren’t brought here in chains, sold at whipping posts and had to watch their women legally raped by white men for decades. Their experience in the 20th century (very roughly generalizing) is somewhat more similar to the experience of the Irish immigrants in the 19th century, or Eastern Europeans in the early 20th. And no one to my knowledge is calling for open hiring procedures for Irishmen in Chicago.
So actually, I might be open to the idea that affirmative action programs should take special account of the discrimination against African-Americans and Native Americans. However, the politics again of this are awful, and as a politician, Meeks just stepped into the hornet’s nest with his comments. You have to tread extremely cautiously here, as a public figure.
- 32nd Ward Roscoe Village - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 12:07 pm:
“[white] women…are not people who have been discriminated against.” Doesn’t the Reverend watch MAD MEN?
- Cincinnatus - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 12:09 pm:
RE: Women/Men Pay Gap
According to a September 2010 Bureau of Labor Statistics study, the wage gap has shrunk to 83% as a result of economic conditions (men have been harder hit than women in this recession), more women entering traditional “male” professions, and women within a profession moving up the food chain within their company. Young women are actually now outperforming their male counterparts. While there is no doubt that past discrimination started women at a large gap, they are making up that gap at an ever increasing rate within the last decade. The wage gap disparity should disappear (using a linear projection) within a generation. This conclusion is made using a direct comparison of wages in the same job, none of this is based on the “comparable job category” nonsense.
RE: Black/White Pay Gap
Here the situation is much worse. The US Census Bureau study from July 2010 shows a narrowing of the gap between Blacks and Whites, but it still stands at an atrocious 58%. As bad as this is, the gap in household income is an equally bad 60%. So, blacks are making less per capita, and on a household basis. The household basis is mainly attributed to the lack of two-adult families.
Now, will set-asides improve the Women/Man gap situation? Probably not since this gap is closing on its own and will take less than a generation to equilibrate.
More interesting are the root causes of the Black/White gap. Is it a result of discrimination, or the inequality of the qualifications of the individuals. This gap concerns me much more than the Women/Men gap. I doubt job set-asides are the answer. These plans just rob the tax payers and governments of revenues that could better be directed into areas improving the qualifications of blacks. There are several social/family structure problems that also need to be addressed.
And this is the area that Rev. Meeks should focus on.
- Not Involved - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 12:10 pm:
If Meeks is all Rahm has to worry about this should be over pretty early election night. He wonders why he isn’t taken seriously.
- Emanuel Collective - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 12:23 pm:
Seriously: President Johnson extended the affirmative action mandate to include women in 1964
- MrJM - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 12:33 pm:
wordslinger: ‘Still, it’s hard to believe you can have the title “Reverend” in front of your name and peddle this stuff.’
Are you kidding? That’s the only way you can get away with doing time after time after time after…
– RevMrJM
- MrJM - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 12:34 pm:
“doing it”
The Right Reverend MrJM, DD (hon.)
- Huh? - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 12:38 pm:
Aahh racism, gotta love it.
Why is it ok for Mr. Meeks to make racist comments and not get shouted down by all of the other candidates? Why is it ok for an african american politician to be racist?
If Mr. Emanual or any other white candidate for mayor were to make similar comments, the person would be drawn, quartered and hanged by ALL of the other candidates in the mayoral contest.
- Seriously??? - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 12:41 pm:
Thanks for the clarification. Sorry for my ignorance.
- Anonymous - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 12:46 pm:
Here’s a quick look at black, white and hispanic distribution in Cook County with a little map view. http://www.chicagobusiness.com/downloads/2006MFDemographics.pdf
- Anonymous - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 12:48 pm:
Sorry, … those were growth rates in population and not total population.
- John Parnell - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 12:53 pm:
Maybe Meeks strategy is to combine the Black vote and the conservative vote to get into the two person mayoral run-off. Then again, that would give him more credit for thinking before he speaks than he deserves.
- Bill - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 1:27 pm:
Meeks is an expert when it comes to firing up his base. Its all show business and its gonna keep getting better and better. Maybe Jr has cut off the money and this is the Rev’s way of getting free media.
- Hickory - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 1:27 pm:
Someone, please tell the Rev that black is not a color.
- Anon - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 1:51 pm:
To wordslingers point, if Meeks made the runoff, whites would be so afraid that we would relive the 1983 election. In this case, it wouldn’t be Bernie Elton who benefits, but rather the other candidate to make the runoff.
This was a brainless thing for Meeks to do. I don’t buy the crazy like a fox theory. More like just crazy.
- Loop Lady - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 1:52 pm:
I am not AA, but IMO, the AA community should tell the three AA Mayoral candiates to exit the race, they are not their best nor the brightest by a long shot, they are an embarassment…does Rahm represent all white folks in this race? Does Del Valle represent all Hispanics?
This is 2010 isn’t it?
Get over yourselves Meeks, Braun, and Davis!
No one ordained you to run but yourself!
- Niles Township - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 1:54 pm:
There is no doubt in my mind that blacks, Hispanics, Asians and women have all been and still are discriminated against.
————————–
OK, but so have the Jews and they seem be doing pretty well without affirmative action. At some point affirmative action simply breeds government reliance rather than private sector ingenuity.
- 10th Indy - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 1:58 pm:
The state set-aside program general applies to “disadvantaged” business (DBE) that can be owned by minorities and/or women who fall below specific income levels. The City program has no income limits and splits its set-asides into Minority Owned Business (MBE) and Women Owned Businesses (WBE). State professional contracts general require 20-30% goals for DBE’s while Chicago contracts split 25% MBE and 5% WBE. The lion’s share of City Set-asides already go to MBE’s not WBE’s so changing the forumla for set-asides is not a solutions to Meed’s percieved problem.
The state and city set-aside programs general follow some version of a federal program. My biggest problem with them their refusal to follow fed guidelines and even consider set-asides for Veteran owned businesses, specifically businesses owned by veterans who were wounded in the line of duty. All things being equal, preference for tax-payer funded contracts should go to those service-disabled vets first.
- Cincinnatus - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 2:06 pm:
10th,
Your post triggered a thought in my mind. How about no set-asides, low bidder only. If tied, preference given to disabled vets to acknowledge their sacrifice for the country. Other than that no preferences allowed. Is that fair?
- Plutocrat03 - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 2:12 pm:
This discussion is the best example of why the government should get out of the business of picking winners and losers.
Can anyone say with a straight face that there are no white men in this country who have had few or no opportunities in their lives? There are numerous examples of so called minorities seeking special treatment when they are already well off.
When you classify AAs, Hispanics, Asians and women as being superior in the hiring process by government edict, are you not then discriminating against who is left?
Statements like Rev. Meeks made would be denounced by all if the minority names were changed around.
It is time to put away the blather and allow merit and the best qualified low bidders to get on with what needs doing regardless of gender or race.
- Democratic Voter - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 3:16 pm:
We live in one of the most segregated cities in America. Discrimination has not ended just because we are in 2010. When we live in a more desegregated city, then we can talk about eliminating the affirmative action programs. I also think people generally think affirmative action is solely race based, and forget that white women are the biggest beneficiaries of the program, simply because their population is larger than the others.
- Pat Collins - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 3:17 pm:
It is not true that 90%+ of the Hispanic and APA population came to the U.S. after 1965. (and similar sentiments from two others)
It’s actually quite trivial to prove I am more right than wrong. I never said there were NO asians/hispanics. Just that their population growth was driven by immigration. Especially Asian, since they have less than replacement birth rate. Hispanic growth is about equal immigration and post 1970 immigrant’s birth rates.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/pop-profile/natproj.html
http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/censr-4.pdf
- Responsa - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 3:47 pm:
==Maybe Meeks strategy is to combine the Black vote and the conservative vote==
I’m just guessing here. You don’t know, or talk to many Conservatives do you?
- Grandson of Man - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 3:54 pm:
It’s not surprising that Rev. Meeks would want AA only for African Americans, since he wants only legally-recognized heterosexual partnerships. Gay people have had to endure legal discrimination, but Sen. Meeks doesn’t see the similarity between gays and African Americans, and neither does many of his constituents/church members.
- Eagle Eye - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 3:55 pm:
Meeks - Wrong Again and this time taking on the “white women!”
- amalia - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 4:22 pm:
@ el conquistador 11:51 a.m. oh yeah the women they are most easily manipulated…..please…..
- jt - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 4:41 pm:
Will the vouchers be for blacks only?
- Bill - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 4:50 pm:
Willie Wilson is a great guy who has done a lot for the community. I hate to see him involve himself in this mess. I hope he didn’t give Danny any money.
- flyonthewall - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 5:05 pm:
A true shame that such racism exists, particularly in those who get elected. Meeks is part of the problem.
- Ain't No Justice - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 5:53 pm:
Meeks does it again! I wish I could make as much $$ as my male counterpart. What makes him think that “they” are the only minority. The USA is a melting pot…HELLO?
- Concerned Voter - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 5:56 pm:
How about we just get rid of all set asides and base the decisions, “where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.”
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkihaveadream.htm
- selena - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 5:59 pm:
I agree with the remarks that Meeks seems to feel free to be a racist and others would not get away with it. It’s tiresome and he will only create more wedges and discrimination for those he would claim to represent.
- Rich Miller - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 6:01 pm:
CV, you quote MLK Jr. in your anti affirmative action comment? Really?
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 6:06 pm:
File this one under “Not Ready for Prime Time.”
Meeks idea was ill-formed and his statement ill-advised.
Most voters disagree with him, but that’s not really the point. The point is that his campaign message is completely undisciplined.
The two most dangerous interviews you can do are with a hostile audience or an uber-friendly audience: many things can go wrong and there’s NO upside.
- selena - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 6:07 pm:
Also…I share the sentiment of other women posters. I would love to make as much money as many younger, inexperienced men (with less education) and who have less responsibilty. Keep talking Meeks…While I have no “horse” in this race, I know I do not want you. Oh yeah, this is the same “minister” who invited Cohen (another good male role model) to his church to campaign. (I wonder if there was a contribution in it for him?)
- BF - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 6:45 pm:
Friends,I studies sociology as an undergrad and grad student. The discussion thus far has neglected to mention the notion of white skin privilege (WSP). I am not a defender of Rev. Meeks, but I think his suggestion that white women not be included as a minority group may have a lot to do with the fact that post the Women’s Revolution, white women have benefitted from affirmative action more than any other group, as someone else pointed out. And let’s not forget that Affirmative Action was originally intended for African Americans, as an attempt to level the playing field and make amends for historical injustices and inequalities that unfairly denied African Americans professional and educational opportunities.
The fact that white women have benefitted more from affirmative action likely stems from the fact that in their case their skin color affords them certain advantages in spite of their gender. It is unfortunate, but true that white men tend to favor white women in professional and educational settings and that there is an underlying assumption on the part of many white men and white women that white women are naturally somehow the heirs apparent to opportunities for advancement that were once exclusively enjoyed by white men. Just look at people in positions of authority. The positions are still dominated by white males, but with white women clearly in second place. The white male is still in a position to pick who he wants and where he wants them. When white women, who follow in the foot steps of white men get into positions of power, they tend to pick and promote other white women.
WSP can also be granted to white Hispanics and Asians, who have fair skin complexions, as white people may feel more comfortable with them and favor them more as “preferred minorities” over African Americans. For example, in the legal profession more African American attorneys have felt the sting of the recession and have been displaced from law firms at a disproportionate rate in comparison to Hispanic and Asian attorneys.
Admittedly it may not be the case in all regions of the U.S. that white Hispanics and Asians are favored more because in California for example, Asians are more likely to be outspoken on subjects of race and ethnicity than Asians in Illinois. There they will talk about discrimination, and they tend to point out that very rarely are they considered for leadership positions e.g., CEO etc., but tend to be relegated to 2nd or 3rd tier leadership positions. Of course there is a larger percentage of persons of Asian descent on the West Coast and so that may be why they experience greater prejudice and discrimination than anywhere else in the country.
White Skin Privilege
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege
- Park - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 7:03 pm:
I like this guy more and more and more. Obviously he’s right. you can’t discriminate on the basis of race, sex, religion. 14th Amendment, folks. The ‘payback for discrimination’ argument is a crock in Cook County. Daley used it to build his big majority using our money. Now he’s gone, time for this to go too. This ongoing discrimination is ripe for a Shakman-like case. Maybe I’ll file the sucker.
If the State R’s have any brains, they’ll wait for this election to end then solicit Meeks into the Party. He wants vouchers (I do too), but his current party can’t do it because of union support. He opposes civil unions on principle, his current party despises him for it. I think the guy’s got real character. I wonder if the State R’s still have enough to lure him in.
- BF - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 7:03 pm:
In the first sentence I meant studied.
- BF - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 7:24 pm:
Park, the Republicans in Illinois and nationally have made it clear that they are not interested in African Americans as candidates or a base. Meeks going Republican would be foolhardy on his part. Republicans haven’t really extended a hand toward him other than in superficial ways.
If he were Hispanic, the Republicans would have swooped him up by now.
- Concerned Voter - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 8:09 pm:
Yes Rich. I wish we could just get rid of all set aside programs. I wish we were in a place where it did not matter if you are a man, woman, Caucasian, African-American, Hispanic, Asian/Pacific Islander, Tall, Short, Disabled, Skinny, Obese, Gay, Lesbian, Transgendered. That all that mattered was if you could accomplish the goal of a job, that you could be judged on that. Not like the games that go on.
- railrat - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 8:48 pm:
all the banter about the good Sen. becoming a GOP, remember according to some hes the next head of Push. How come Jesse Sr. isn’t doing a photo op ? HA
- amalia - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 9:00 pm:
@ BF…..actually…. and here’s an ugly filp side truth, the same truth that we are faced with today. men of color, and recent immigrants, voted in higher percentages than white men against the suffrage referendum. as for whether white men support white women, we could write a whole dissertation on young white men who did not support Hillary. they spent their time on line savaging her. the sexism was astounding.
- VanillaMan - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 9:30 pm:
This reminds me of a scene I witnessed in Wal-Mart. Two individuals using the Wal-Mart motorized scooters got into a traffic jam in front of the Velveeta display and started shouting that the other needed to move their scooter. Neither individual believed that they were capable of stepping out of their motorized shopping scooter, just as they had when they walked from their parked cars into the store. Neither wanted the other to know that they could get up and move on their own accord, under their own power. Both clung to their perceived mobility situation in order to out guilt the other.
What we have here are people clinging to their public shortcomings in order to enjoy the comforts provided without costs by the rest of us and arguing over who has the greatest shortcomings.
Sick.
- Zoble21 - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 9:35 pm:
I say we demand Meeks immediate resignation from the Senate for making this comment!! Fair is Fair
- Steve Pampagana - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 9:50 pm:
Many WBE (Women Businesses) are fronts for white men–that is a fact proven with case after case and many businesses and families I know. It is a mechanism to get contracts and favortism.
There has been discrimination against women and Sen Meeks was probably insensetive and impolite BUT the fact that white women get the biggest part of the affirmative action contracting pie that means that there is an issue–especially if they are fronting for their husband. Also the life of an average Black or Hispanic man is still more difficult than the average white woman even if you just measure that in the United States. White woman are people of privilege and wealth on the whole understanding their are white women in poverty etc. White woman benefit from their husbands and fathers wealth and work that sometimes ignores communities with people of color in them. Slave Masters had white wives who lived privileged lives. The lives of investment bankers, bankers etc are priviliged.
There are other forms of discrimination against women and different roles some of which are forced and unnecessary.
The other part of the Affirmative Action debate that Sen Meeks got right is the political and corrupt nature of contracting. If you get Victor Reyes as your lobbyist or you are part of UNO than that helps particular Hispanic businesses and families connected to a certain clique but does not help the community as a whole. Daley has given contracts to his friends (as did Rod Blago) like the Duffs who were minority fronts and corrupt and just bad people. Most Hispanics don’t benefit from the handful of politically connected contractors.
What about Filipinos? We get grouped in with either Hispanics because of our Spanish names or Asians.
The same names end up on Chicago and Illinois contracts. Maybe because they are suited to do it and others are not and maybe they are qualified and do a good job–but Mike Tadin, Freddie Barbara, McDonough, Walsh etc or the lawyers they use like Mike Daley or the insurance they buy from John Daley or the few minorities like Victor Reyes, Dominic Delgaldo, Juan Ochoa doling out contracts (which break the law) under Rod.
This is a complicated issue and a way to spur discussion and debate. Sen Meeks was not sensitive in what he said and wrong in part but also brought out a truth about affirmative action that needs to be addressed.
- Marty - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 10:02 pm:
The original theory was that African-Americans had unique problems due to the cultural legacy of slavery. In order to garner political support, preferences were then expanded to just about everyone except white males.
Personally, I’m not convinced set-asides are right for anyone in 2010… but if they are, the best case is for African-Americans descended from slaves (as opposed to recent Caribbean or African immigrants), and there is less logic for all the other groups.
And to the extent that the program is spread so thin, whatever good it could do for African-Americans gets diluted.
- The REAL Anonymous fka Anonymous - Thursday, Dec 16, 10 @ 11:55 pm:
=You don’t know, or talk to many Conservatives do you?=
Hmmm…please define “Conservative” for me–or at least be kind enough to set the context for your comment, Responsa.
- Robert Hiyane - Friday, Dec 17, 10 @ 2:21 am:
American “Indians” had the most discrimination and were victims of genocide.
My ancestors including relatives were put in Concentration camps here.