65 Comments - AC - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 9:25 am: Not to mention trying to remove collective bargaining rights from large numbers of state employees. In many ways, he seems similar to Wisconsin’s governor, who also voices support for private unions. Hypocrisy is one of many traits shared by politicians from both parties. - Reality Check - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 9:31 am: This really bears repeating. “Quinn, of course, has ignored union contracts by canceling pay raises and attempting to close facilities and lay off workers. Saying you’re for collective bargaining doesn’t mean you’re actually for it.” Amen. - OneMan - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 9:32 am: AC at least the governor up north didn’t take the union money then jerk them over… Pat Quinn rhetoric != action - Global Purchasing - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 9:37 am: “90 percent of what they make in Illinois, they export to the world” 90 percent of what they ASSEMBLE in Illinois…. - TimB - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 9:42 am: Not to mention that Gov Quinn risks permanent banning from the blog for resorting to “bumper sticker talking points”!! - Jeff Park Mom - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 9:43 am: So ironic that his SoS will be about JOBS JOBS JOBS when as an employer he is all about LAYOFFS LAYOFFS LAYOFFS. He’s shuttering two state centers that provide needed services without a plan to replace those services, at the same time throwing about 600 people out of jobs where they “get a decent wage, get a decent health care plan and a decent retirement.” - zatoichi - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 9:48 am: Not to mention the vendors not being paid and community based human service providers with rates so low that they cannot afford to provide ‘a decent wage, get a decent health care plan and a decent retirement’ and stay in business. - Nieva - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 9:55 am: Best of both worlds for Pat, take the union money and screw them over. And they will still vote for him. - Plutocrat03 - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 9:57 am: At least Scott Walker was able to balance his state’s budget after changing the work rules. PQ changed the rules and still has a breathtaking budget deficit. - dupage dan - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 10:01 am: The image is powerful even if it is trite and hackneyed. Quinn really is the man behind the curtain, pleading with us to ignore that and look at the screen - the image, larger than life, of a strong, principled man holding firm to his beliefs and charging forth on his faithful steed, Rocinante. Oops, that’s Quixote, not Quinn. I’m mixing up my literary metaphors. Here is Quinn, “the Mighty Quinn” at the firing line. Ready, Aim, Falter. - KenMeyer - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 10:08 am: Gov. Quinn speaks of Caterpillar. Is he unaware of the Electro-Motive subsidiary of Cat’s current problems with the CAW up in Ontario? Or that Cat recently opened a decidedly NON-union Electro-Motive plant in, of all places….Muncie, INDIANA? - dupage dan - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 10:16 am: KenMeyer, Quinn is not a man who worries about those stubborn things called facts. Illinois will slide into ruin with this man in charge. Illinois is heading for a well known rocky reef - Quinn at the helm like the captain of an Italian cruise ship. - Downstate - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 10:19 am: Governor - feel free to attack the other states. But, when have you offered your own plan for getting us out of this mess? Right now your ship of state looks rudderless, as you criticize the other ship’s captains that are navigating the troubled waters, while you sit idle without a sail. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 10:30 am: “Illinois will slide into ruin with this man in charge.” What the heck do you mean “will?” Too late, it already has! - mark walker - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 10:35 am: Indiana is doing poorly this year on economics, with very mixed results on attracting/losing jobs. Mitch may be pushing his ideology too far with this move. It’s one thing to support unions generally while not fully meeting your obligations to a few specific unions in times of crisis — it’s entirely something else to attack them universally and permanently by statute. Our union leaders, while not happy, clearly know the difference. - slow down - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 10:36 am: I don’t see this attack on Quinn as fair at all. My understanding of Quinn’s efforts with respect to the puiblic employee unions was that Quinn didn’t have the appropriation from the GA to both provide the bargained for pay increases and employee salaries for the entire fiscal year. To suggest that his position in dealing with that scenario undermines his argument that “right to work” is poor public policy is ludicrous. - Wensicia - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 10:37 am: Quinn: “I encourage all public union employees that I plan to lay off to move to Indiana to find jobs. And thank you very much for your support and monetary contributions. Bye!” - Yellow Dog Democrat - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 10:40 am: O boy, the glass is always 5% empty with Pat Quinn, isn’t it? My grandfather was an AFSCME member with the state. My heart goes out to state workers, public servants who have seen their workloads skyrocket and have been demonized in the press. That said: You did not create the pension problems, but you must be part of any constructive solution. If you believe that closing state institutions puts clients in jeopardy, then put a solution on the table that will dedicate the resources necessary to make the transition possible. Corrections spending has quintupled in Illinois while the crime rate hasn’t changed one bit — you can’t claim to be for social justice while defending a system that at best warehouses people with drug addiction and, at worst, basically sends them to college to get a degree in Career Criminal. It’s not AFSCME’s fault the pension system wasn’t funded. It’s not AFSCME’s fault that state government relied on outmoded facilities spending to prop up downstate economies, instead of providing solid economic development that would attract the jobs of the future. None of it is AFSCME’s fault, but AFSCME does have a vested interest in being part of the solution. - Jimbo - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 10:50 am: Collective bargaining in the private sector is fundamentally different from collective bargaining in the public sector. - Stateline - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 10:58 am: “Right to Work law” and the issue regarding the State providing or not providing funding to support bargaining agreements with State employes are two very different issues. PQ has his faults, but piling on with this comparison is not an apples to apples analogy. - RMWStanford - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 11:16 am: Governor Quinn is for unions expect when it is incontinent for him to be - Secret Square - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 11:26 am: “Saying you’re for collective bargaining doesn’t mean you’re actually for it.” Reminds me of this classic dialogue from “This Is Spinal Tap”: David St. Hubbins: We say, “Love your brother.” We don’t say it really, but… Nigel Tufnel: We don’t literally say it. David St. Hubbins: No, we don’t say it. Nigel Tufnel: We don’t really, literally mean it. David St. Hubbins: No, we don’t believe it either, but… Nigel Tufnel: But we’re not racists. David St. Hubbins: But that message should be clear, anyway. Nigel Tufnel: We’re anything but racists. - dupage dan - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 11:32 am: slow down, It’s the totality of these issues that most here are responding to, I think. Quinn is very good at painting a clear picture of failure on the part of someone else but the picture of his efforts in Illinois is quite muddy. Since he doesn’t appear to have any over-all plan for dealing with the horrific crisis that continues to unfold here it just seems as tho he bounces from one fire to another - makes some statement that appears to solidify a position, takes a few phone calls from those in opposition to his statement and then he backs away from the original position or changes his mind entirely. You may have noticed that if you were awake and paying attention these past several years. - Shock & Awww(e) - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 11:38 am: I’m torn in deciding whether PQ is being a hypocrite or just locked in a constant state of mass mental confusion. Leaning towards the latter. - KenMeyer - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 11:49 am: mark walker; In what areas is… “Indiana is doing poorly this year on economics” …at least relative to the other “rust belt” states? Last I looked, the state had fractionally better unemployment numbers than adjacent states, and had a budget surplus to boot. What neighboring state[s] is/are doing better? - OneMan - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 12:09 pm: I don’t see this attack on Quinn as fair at all. My understanding of Quinn’s efforts with respect to the puiblic employee unions was that Quinn didn’t have the appropriation from the GA to both provide the bargained for pay increases and employee salaries for the entire fiscal year. But when given the option to fight for those folks (he could have vetoed the budget or at least been more out front in pushing to get that money in the budget). He didn’t do either. So therefore no raises. It is easy for him to defend unions, but when he had the chance to expend political capital to try and help those folks, he decided not to. So how is not having a labor contract that much different than having an employer who says ‘I can’t afford to pay you what the contract says but I really, really wish I could but I am not going to do much to try and change the fact I don’t have enough to pay you’ - scurvydog - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 12:21 pm: Jimbo, I think you are dead on. When unions achieve a strangle hold on private businesses, they can either move or go out of business. State and local governments can do neither. - He Makes Ryan Look Like a Saint - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 12:25 pm: Is he going to mention that he just pulled a large number of PSA’s out of the union after they were put in? - mokenavince - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 12:43 pm: Jimbo and scurvydog hit it out of the park. Unions belong in private business. - Pelon - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 12:52 pm: - “But when given the option to fight for those folks (he could have vetoed the budget or at least been more out front in pushing to get that money in the budget).” He also lost his appropriation excuse at the end of the year when the legislature agreed to increase the appropriations. Since then, they’ve posted numerous jobs in the agencies which supposedly don’t have enough appropriations for raises. If they don’t have money for raises, how can they pay new employee salaries? - Peggy R/Southern - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 12:57 pm: I dire say at this site, RTW is bad public policy at all. It reduces the power of the union bosses and increases the rights of the individual worker. Public organized labor is different. There are not profits to share with labor, just taking from taxpayers. As for Quinn, I think I agree w/the commenter that noted that Walker in WI obtained legislation for limiting bargaining rights and balanced his budget, too. I recall reading some reports that some local school districts found themselves with more cash as well. - dupage dan - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 1:11 pm: YDD, As a state employee myself I have seen the head count go down and the workload go up. I am fully aware that our actions have not caused the financial problems. I also agree that even tho we are not the cause we must, along with all other citizens, agree to some changes in so that our fiscal house can be put in order. That means some pain will be visited upon undeserving folk. I have written here that I am aware of that need and in am ready to make the sacrifices. As the great Canadian philosopher, Red Green, once said, “we’re all in this together”. - Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 1:12 pm: Ronald Reagan, one of Scott Walker’s political idols, of all people, said that there can be no freedom without collective bargaining. Reagan did not qualify collective bargaining in the speech snippet I saw, meaning he did not say one group can have it while another can’t. If Reagan believed what he said, he would have no choice but to call Walker a fascist. As far as unions having a stranglehold on government, what about rich corporate donors, who can pour billions into campaigns? Isn’t this another “stranglehold” on government? - Knome Sane - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 1:16 pm: I am curious: Is the “right to work for less” better or worse than the “right to be unemployed”? - ah HA - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 1:22 pm: Kudos on that last statement Rich - 3 beers to Springfield - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 1:34 pm: Cat’s newest plants are in right-to-work states. - dupage dan - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 1:37 pm: Grandson of Man, How can you explain, then, that Reagan (your champion of collective bargaining) fired the entire striking staff of the air traffic controllers who were members of PATCO, a union? We can go back and forth all day about people who support unions/collective bargaining and those who don’t. At the end we can pick a winner to that debate. The Prize? To wake up the next day with the same problems we have today. Assign blame all you want. Call people fascists. What does that get you? It’s like p!$$!#& in your pants in a dark suit. It may give you a warm feeling but nobody will notice. - Not Surprised - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 1:52 pm: Last time I checked a low paying job still paid more than no job. - Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 1:53 pm: du page, Reagan may have fired union workers, but he didn’t eliminate collective bargaining. Why did Reagan equate collective bargaining to freedom? I didn’t call people fascists, but if Reagan was stopped right after he made his collective bargaining speech and was told that some state government stripped collective bargaining rights, would he have approved it? He would have been “on the spot,” risking great hypocrisy, if he would have said he didn’t. - Bitterman - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 1:54 pm: Quinn, as Rich points out, is trying to have his cake and eat it too. The larger problem, in the case of public collective bargaining, is that those sitting at the bargaining table have the ability to contribute hundreds of thousands of dollars to the campaign of the person on the other side of the bargaining table. How has that ever made any sense and how can it continue? - lars - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 1:56 pm: Anyone who thinks that RTW means more individual rights for workers is either out of their mind or just poorly informed. Facts are that highly unionized sectors create a better quality of life for all workers. Geez, the rest of the industrialized world knows this? This is the case in the US, too. Gee, go live in Missisippi. Wages and benefits decline for all working people when unionization declines. Quinn is out of control and a hypocrite of massive proportion as is most of the Illinois GA. Anyone that takes for granted Social Security, time off, the weekend, sick time, holiday pay, overtime pay– for crying out loud has no clue about their own American labor union history. When the State wants to close institutions and advertise for services on Craig’s list, which they are doing, you know it is time to outsource the Governor’s job to China. - Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 1:58 pm: ==The larger problem, in the case of public collective bargaining, is that those sitting at the bargaining table have the ability to contribute hundreds of thousands of dollars to the campaign of the person on the other side of the bargaining table. How has that ever made any sense and how can it continue?== Hundreds of thousands of dollars are nothing compared to superPAC’s. What about rich corporate donors who can contribute billions to squash “little” people who gain strength by pooling their interests in the form of a union? - Jim - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 2:02 pm: History lesson is in order. PATCO members violated their no-strike pledge. Reagan warned them to come back within a specified period of time, and many of them did not. So he did what he had clearly told them he would do. They fired themselves. That was on them, not on Reagan. - Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 2:05 pm: lars, I will trot out the old dog I posted here the other day. I looked personal incomes of right to work states and other states from year 2010 and compared them to year 1990. Now I won’t pretend these statistics tell the whole story, but they at least show that in non right to work states, incomes are higher. Incomes also grew more in 20 years in non right to work states. The source of the data is the U.S. Department of Commerce, bureau of economic analysis. - Bitterman - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 2:15 pm: GoM, I’m not a fan of super PACs. That was not my argument. You might want to re-read. It is wrong for an elected official to bargain salaries and benefits with those whom he/she hopes to gain campaing funds from. Yes? - Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 2:27 pm: Bitterman, It’s as wrong for unions to contribute to politicians and sit across the table from them as it is for anyone to contribute cash to politicians and expect anything for it, in my opinion. - dupage dan - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 2:47 pm: GofM, Reagan didn’t end collective bargaining but his firing of all the PATCO workers meant the distinction was lost on most union supporters. My point was then, and now, when all is said and done the problems remain. Winning any arguement will get you precisely……nothing. The solution(s) will be painful and the faster we get past the parsing of blaming arguement and get on with the repairing of our fiscal house the better. - dupage dan - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 2:52 pm: Jim, As I said to GofM, it matters little exactly what happened (although your recounting is accurate). What matters is the perception. Reagan was viewed as a union buster from that time on. By both supporters and detractors. Donating to politicians has been viewed as a part of free speech by the SCOTUS. How it gets done is another matter. Expecting an outcome from the donation is wrong. How do we get past that? How do we prevent abuses? - Shock & Awww(e) - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 3:12 pm: Bitterman, you strike on a related point I’ve heard mentioned in multiple recent conversations. The conversants and their unions worked on behalf of and donated to Gov. Quinn. While not so naive as to believe everything he promised on the trail, they negotiated and reached specific agreements with him. Those agreements are now being used as “toilet paper” in the words of one. It’s twisted enough to casual observers that one party at the bargaining table can hold such great influence over the electoral future of their negotiating counterpart. It’s even more twisted to dedicated public servants that the Gov. feels comfortable essentially ignoring agreements he negotiated. Perhaps he feels it’s OK because IL political control has become so lopsided, with one party so closely aligned with unions as the other essentially ignores them. Who knows? Regardless, all some people see now is that he gives his word, issues a supportive comment or two, then pins blame on the General Assembly and makes excuses after he doesn’t even try to deliver. At least in WI, IN, etc. they’re making collective bargaining changes through the legislative process. In IL, we’re making collective bargaining changes according to PQ’s whim. - Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 3:27 pm: du page, I agree with you on working together to fix the budget mess–quickly. I would also like to see long-held rights remain intact. I think the budget mess is so big that unionized employees don’t need to be demonized in order to convince people how serious the problem is. - dupage dan - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 3:37 pm: GofM, As a state employee, used to being demonized in various places, I agree that targeting one group to the exclusion of others won’t resolve anything. It is tempting to do so, however, since identifying a target as the bad guy is an oft-times useful short term strategy. But has been said here many times - you could fire the entire state work force and make little headway on this collosal budget hole. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 3:53 pm: “But has been said here many times - you could fire the entire state work force and make little headway on this collosal budget hole.” And yet, amazingly, Quinn keeps finding the room for pandering tax givebacks for his special interests! That dude is like a Mathemagician! WOW! - tired of politics - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 3:57 pm: Plutocrat03,, Do you really believe Scott Walker slayed a $3+ billion deficit without accounting tricks? According to GAAP guidelines Wisconsin still has a $3+ billion deficit. - Ken Meyer - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 4:14 pm: One might mention that not being opposed to “collective bargaining” does NOT mean that you have an obligation to reach an agreement with those “bargaining collectively”. A bunch of rag pickers gathered together at my car, trying to “wash” my windshield while I’m waiting for a light may have the right to “bargain collectively” - a right which I support. That doesn’t mean, however, that I’m going to agree to give them a dime. - Anon - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 4:16 pm: Can someone help me understand exactly why unions oppose laws that make it optional for employees to pay dues? I guess I’m confused abou this because if members value the union and the services provided, shouldn’t they gladly agree to pay the dues without a law requiring them to do so? - dupage dan - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 4:54 pm: Hey, tired, I think I speak for many when I say we would love to have that 3 bill deficit that Wisconsin has. - dupage dan - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 4:56 pm: @ Anon 4:16pm, =shouldn’t they gladly agree to pay the dues without a law requiring them to do so?= No more than you would gladly pay taxes. Let’s face it - people naturally want something for nothing. In situations where dues were not collected by the employer, union receipts went down. - AC - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 5:03 pm: Anon: Far too many would take advantage of the obligation that unions have to represent everyone. There would be more support for making dues optional if there wasn’t an unfunded mandate for the union to provide services. - Anon - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 5:07 pm: So then, for the unions, it’s more about the money to support their organizations than it is any noble crusade for workers’ rights? - park - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 7:29 pm: I just can’t get beyond the idea “Quinn mocks”. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 8:26 pm: Oh yeah Caterpillar is doing so well that it just signed a deal to export some manufacturing to Wisconsin. Ironically the company’s name is Exodus and they are touting 300 jobs being created over the next few years. Only problem is that’s not Illinois and who the heck knows if the expectations will be met. With regard to all the UAW hype. I challenge the readers to research what the starting wages are for a UAW employee at Ford since Ford added three shifts at an Illinois plant. Hint: It’s not your fathers UAW anymore. Starting wages have gone from a living wage to a poverty scale shovel-ready wage of about $15/hour that will qualify your family for the food stamp program. I’m sick of this political rhetoric. The Chicago mayor wants people to be retrained in welding. HA..why are people blowing money on university degrees. The Illinois Governor is bragging about adding much-needed sewer worker jobs — Why are people blowing money on college degrees? Big news about the Chrysler plant created “much-needed jobs” in Belvidere and that’s touted in the press. Nevertheless what is not said is that the jobs are part-time temporary shovel-ready-like jobs that qualify you for food stamps AND because they are part-time temporary jobs they are being used to undermine the UAW. Think people. Question EVERYTHING. The things that you really want to hear and want to believe are where you’re most venerable because it plays to your emotions. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 8:59 pm: Not Surprised - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 1:52 pm: Last time I checked a low paying job still paid more than no job. ———————- Supply and demand baby. If the job doesn’t pay a living wage you withhold your labor until it does. The market forces rule. What’s the ultimate goal here anyways? To have a slave labor University educated workforce with six-figure student loan debts that will keep people living as indentured servants for the next 40 years of their life ending up with no savings in their retirements only to be blamed later as living beyond their means? Good luck with that plan. It’s failing as I write this. If our work is not increasing our standard of living what’s the point? We’ve been spending centuries to improve efficiencies and increase production. When is enough, enough. It’s mathematically impossible to grow these numbers year after year after year. Aren’t we there yet? Why are we locked into a 40 hour work week if the goal is for everyone to have a job — just eliminate that 40 hour mindset and the problem is fixed — everyone will have a job working 20 hours for example. Create more of those investment banking jobs that don’t produce anything of lasting value. I call them virtual jobs. Take a piece of paper and put a signature on it and that gives that paper value. Nothing has to be mined, manufactured, transported, inventoried. Hardly any raw materials consumed or real labor involved. Then create more jobs to count and track the number of papers you’re creating and create more jobs where people can place bets on whether the terms and conditions on those pieces of paper will ever be fulfilled. Then create more paper to serve as insurance polices if they don’t. Create more jobs to rate the safety of that paper. There..you just created a lot of work and much-needed jobs. To what end? The above describes the latest housing/mortgage/CDO investment fraud bubble that the politicians refuse to prosecute. It did create a lot of busy work jobs we can certainly say that — so how’s everyone’s standard of living looking because of it? - Plutocrat03 - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 9:25 pm: Do I believe….? Teachers have been hired back, smaller classrooms exist, school budgets are balanced…… sounds like a good start. And for the record, collective bargaining was limited - not eliminated. Some really hinky practices were stopped. - Yellow Dog Democrat - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 11:00 pm: @du page dan - I believe you represent the prevailing view of most public employees. Atleast in their calmer moments. That said, I think its also fair to call out the GOP, Tribune editorial board, various public policy “think” tanks, and blogophytes who on a weekly if not daily basis are throwing gasoline on an already potentially incendiary situation. Resolving our state’s long term financial challenges will require a frank conversation about goals, values, and priorities. It will require calm, lengthy negotiation. And you don’t negotiate by press release or in the editorial pages…that’s where you dig into your entrenched position. So, we would be much better off if everyone who says they want budget reform to start acting like they want budget reforms, instead of creating an environment that is toxic to reform. On another point, if workers are going to be asked to make sacrifices, all the folks doing the asking ought to say what they are willing to put on the table. I haven’t heard the illinois chamber or its members say they’re willing to give up $300 million a year in tax breaks. I havent heard Kim Maisch and the NFIB say that there is a middle ground on taxing services, I haven’t heard IRMA say that maybe we dont need to subsidize walmart so heavily through the retailers reimbursement for sales tax. Anyone demanding cuts in worker’s benefits who isnt willing to put his own money on the table to solve the problem should be politely told that the Hypocrites Anonymous meeting is in the basement of the Howlett Building…just follow the tunnel but get there early, the room fills up quick. PS That goes double for the newspapers and their taxpayer subsidies. - Gregor - Wednesday, Feb 1, 12 @ 11:21 pm: Indiana is not that cool… their legislature passed a creationist science mandate in their senate this past week, I heard. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.