* I cannot believe I missed this poll from the Paul Simon Public Policy Institute last month. 48.8 percent of southern Illinoisans said Cook County should be separated from Illinois, while 39 percent were opposed…
There has been a proposal to have Cook County separated from the rest of Illinois and to form its own state. Would you strongly favor, favor, oppose, or strongly oppose this proposal?
Strongly favor 33.3%
Favor 15.5%
Oppose 21.0%
Strongly oppose 18.0%
Donʼt know 12.3%
* And the overwhelming majority of southern Illinoisans believes that their region is getting less than its fair share of state spending…
And what do you think about government spending in your area of the state? In terms of its share of state spending, do you think your part of the state gets more than its fair share, about the right amount, or less than its fair share of state spending?
More than its fair share 3.3%
About the right amount 13.3%
Less than its fair share 79.3%
Donʼt know 4.3%
* Institute analysis…
Charles Leonard, a visiting professor at the Institute who supervised the poll, said, “This notion that downstate Illinois somehow does not belong with Cook County is consistent with the results of our 2010 Southern Illinois poll, in which large numbers of respondents also expressed antipathy toward Chicago.”
The poll also showed voters in the Southern Illinois region do not believe they are getting their fair share of state government spending. Almost eight in 10 (79 percent) said Southern Illinois gets “less than its fair share,” while only 3 percent said the region gets “more than our fair share.” About one in eight (13 percent) said the area gets “about the right amount.”
John Jackson, a visiting professor at the Institute and one of the authors of the poll, said: “Given that many political leaders and others constantly complain about Chicago, and about how badly Southern Illinois is treated by the state, and that significant portions of the media in Southern Illinois routinely echo that complaint, the belief in a downtrodden Southern Illinois has become a part of the conventional wisdom in this region.
“The belief is so embedded in the political culture that it undoubtedly is a root cause of the dominant attitude toward Cook County reflected in this question,” Jackson continued.
* Southern Illinoisans may lean toward secession, but they’re definitely not traditionally conservative on economic issues…
Which of these statements comes closer to your own views – even if neither is exactly right?
Most rich people today are wealthy mainly because of their own hard work, ambition, or education. 31.3%
Most rich people today are wealthy mainly because they know the right people or were born into a wealthy family. 51.5%
Neither 1.5%
Both equally 12.8%
Donʼt know 3.0%
Do you feel that the distribution of money and wealth in this country today is fair, or do you feel that the money and wealth in this country should be more evenly distributed among a larger percentage of the people?
Fair now 30.5%
Should be more even 59.0%
Donʼt know 10.5%
Do you think the federal government should or should not pursue policies that try to reduce the gap between wealthy and less well-off Americans?
Should pursue 51.0%
Should not pursue 38.3%
Donʼt know 10.8%
* There’s also been a statistically significant shift on gay marriage/civil unions since the Institute’s last poll in 2010…
* Methodology…
The poll of 400 registered voters covered the 18 southernmost counties in Illinois: Alexander, Franklin, Gallatin, Hamilton, Hardin, Jackson, Jefferson, Johnson, Massac, Perry, Pope, Pulaski, Randolph, Saline, Union, Washington, White, and Williamson. Live phone interviews were conducted February 23-28. The sample of 400 has a margin of error of 4.9 percent at the 95 percent confidence level. This means that if we conducted the survey 100 times, in 95 of those instances, the result would be within plus or minus 4.9 percentage points from the results obtained here. We also included a special sample of cell phone users to ensure greater accuracy.
The poll was conducted by Issues & Answers of Virginia Beach, VA. It reports no Illinois political figures as clients. The poll was paid for with non-tax dollars from the Institute’s endowment fund.
- dave - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 10:49 am:
http://www.glamdring.org/modules/gallery/albums/misc/morans.jpg
- dave - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 10:52 am:
*** And the overwhelming majority of southern Illinoisans believes that their region is getting less than its fair share of state spending…**
This isn’t really surprising, yet it is still stunning. Such a disconnect from reality.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 10:55 am:
“What do you call ‘Illinois’ without ‘Chicago’?”
“Alabama, Mississippi, Indiana, …”
Would be nice if both sides would see the need of each other, and both sides realize together, they make Illinois great.
- wordslinger - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 10:56 am:
–Less than its fair share 79.3%–
That’s just bizarre. Talk about a culture of entitlement.
- Plutocrat03 - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 10:56 am:
Dave…
I’m not sure what the antipathy to the Moran family comes from, but there it is…..
- dave - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 11:03 am:
**Would be nice if both sides would see the need of each other, and both sides realize together, they make Illinois great. **
Funny, but I don’t see Chicago/Cook County asking for separation from the rest of the state.
- MrJM - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 11:04 am:
They still bitter that Illinois didn’t split in two during the Civil War?
– MrJM
- PublicServant - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 11:04 am:
It’s just a ploy to charge all those Cook County kids Out-of_state Tuition at U of I. You know, the kids the republicans don’t want to let vote in Champaign County…
- AlphaBettor - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 11:09 am:
Meanwhile, a strong plurality of Chicagoans are unaware that their state shares a border with Kentucky.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 11:10 am:
===Funny, but I don’t see Chicago/Cook County asking for separation from the rest of the state.===
I guess you are right!
Chicago and Cook never complain about “downstate” …
- AlphaBettor - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 11:15 am:
Oswego, Chicago and Cook County never THINK about Downstate. We’re much more likely to visit Wisconsin or Michigan than Southern Illinois.
- Lakeview - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 11:15 am:
Let them go. Seriously, I get so tired of the whining.
- Aldyth - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 11:21 am:
As a loyal citizen of Forgottonia, I understand the feeling that folks in the rest of Illinois have that the Chicago metro area is the two ton gorilla sitting in the northeastern corner of the state. There are very real cultural differences. Legislation that is important to the folks outside of the Chicago area gets blocked because of the power concentrated in 20% of land mass of Illinois.
I used to live in the Chicago Metro area and I know how easy it is to think in terms that the rest of the state is unsophisticated and rigid in its thinking. There is plenty of rigid thinking on both sides. As long as the folks south of Kankakee and west of Aurora feel that they are utterly disrespected and disregarded by the powers that be in Chicago, this kind of attitude will continue.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 11:21 am:
===Chicago and Cook County never THINK about Downstate.===
Never? Never. So … Never?
I guess that I-55 Corridor and Interstate must be pretty bare about now …and I-57 the same … Yep, wasted pavement there.
- Sunshine - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 11:32 am:
Maybe it’s that those in Southern Illinois are just embarrassed about the Cubs?
- In 630 - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 11:33 am:
===the power concentrated in 20% of land mass of Illinois.===
How dare power be concentrated in populated areas!
- Skeeter - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 11:34 am:
The only time I even think of downstate is when I need to go there and end up dealing with some Chicago-hating judge. Downstate lawyers can come to Chicago and be treated with respect, but that doesn’t happen in the reverse.
I’m another Chicago resident who would be pleased to let downstate leave. They don’t add anything of value and they whine too much. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
- Deep South - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 11:36 am:
I’m a long time resident of Southern Illinois and can tell you that I’ve met many people in this region who have never been to Chicago and have no desire to go there. They have, however, been to places like St. Louis, Nashville and Memphis. Yes, we do share a border with Missouri and Kentucky, which I would believe that my “upstate” neighbors are probably unaware of. But the disdain for Chicago would probably be quenched with a little education. Some “show me the money” lessons would go along way in convincing some folks that Chicago is an asset to the entire state. BTW, don’t even think about making us pay for a new Wrigley Field.
- Skeeter - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 11:39 am:
DP, I love that last line. Don’t make you pay for Wrigley? Yeah, but keeping taking my money to pay for your roads and your teacher pensions.
Can’t you at least say thank you?
- jk - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 11:39 am:
Dave,
That’s because Cook County doesn’t realize there is a state below I-80.
- dave - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 11:03 am:
**Would be nice if both sides would see the need of each other, and both sides realize together, they make Illinois great. **
Funny, but I don’t see Chicago/Cook County asking for separation from the rest of the state.
- Deep South - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 11:47 am:
===Yeah, but keeping taking my money to pay for your roads and your teacher pensions. Can’t you at least say thank you?====
Skeeter, you old socialist!
In my post I did acknowledge that Chicago is an asset to the entire state. I do understand where the money comes from.
But you seem to want a “thank you” in the form of state funding for a new Wrigley Field. Is that right?
- OldSmoky2 - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 11:49 am:
I was curious to actually see the revenue breakdown. According to the Illinois Department of Revenue, Chicago and Cook County had 40.49% of the state’s population and paid 42.5% of the state income taxes generated in 2008. Downstate had 32.5% of the state’s population and generated just 25.7% of the income tax revenues. And Chicago’s collar counties had 24.3% of the population and paid 31.8% of the income tax revenues. I guess the collar counties could have an argument on that basis if anyone does; on the other hand, if the state were to split, they’d be way better off financially going with Chicago than Downstate. How Downstate would make up for the loss of Chicago metro gas tax revenues to support road upkeep is beyond me. And we haven’t even gone into how much federal tax revenue from the Chicago area ends up Downstate to support infrastructure, Medicare, Medicaid, education, etc.
Of course, this is a pipedream that’ll never happen. Does anyone seriously think Republicans want to create two new U.S. Senate seats for Chicago?
- jk - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 11:58 am:
So OldSmoky2,
Are you gonna send all your criminals and mentally ill people to Lake County instead of Downstate prisons and facilities? Services like that are the reason the money is disproportionately located Downstate.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 12:00 pm:
===As long as the folks south of Kankakee and west of Aurora feel that they are utterly disrespected and disregarded by the powers that be in Chicago, this kind of attitude will continue. ===
So, your fee-fees are hurt and that’s whose problem?
Please. You pay less taxes per capita and get more state money per capita. Stop whining already.
- CircularFiringSquad - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 12:01 pm:
Sounds like Gomer and the other poll respondents need some more book learning to better understand the taxes paid v. taxes used stats
BTW who would they guard in their fancy prisons in Chi/Cook Split?
BTW-2 would Aurora or Naperville by the new capitol of South IL.? or do you prefer North Kentucky?
- Anonymous - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 12:04 pm:
I have heard that after Navy Pier, Wrigkey Field is the second biggest tourist draw. Tourists spend money and pay sales taxes.
- D.P. Gumby - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 12:05 pm:
Peeps! Read the poll…it’s the 18 southern most counties…that doesn’t include UofI nor Forgottonia. More interesting demographic info would be how many of the 400 respondents have ever been to Chicago and how often. Also, what type, if any, contacts do they have w/ Chicago. Otherwise, this is just like the name-recognition polls in political campaigns.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 12:06 pm:
===As long as the folks south of Kankakee and west of Aurora feel that they are utterly disrespected and disregarded by the powers that be in Chicago, this kind of attitude will continue. ===
Oh, I know this one … kids call this the “Hold my breath and turn blue until someone says I am special” tactic.
What’s next, throwing your apple slices and tippy cups? Monetary allocations indicate that you pay less and get more … with Chicago.
- Aldyth - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 12:13 pm:
*bangs head on desk*
So much for trying to state what my neighbors feel about the Chicago metro area and have people listen.
“So, your fee-fees are hurt and that’s whose problem?
Please. You pay less taxes per capita and get more state money per capita. Stop whining already.”
Rich, I was neither whining nor were fees anywhere in my thinking. And yes, I understand why my neighbors feel that their opinions are disregarded and disrespected. As a former long-time resident of the Chicago metro area, I tried to explain why my neighbors feel the way they do. In return, I got disregarded and disrespected, and a verbal spanking from you.
I come here often, because there is a lot of intelligence and savvy here about what is happenning in Illinois. I will continue to come here for the same reason. Today, you aren’t listening. You are better people than this.
- Skeeter - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 12:19 pm:
“But you seem to want a “thank you” in the form of state funding for a new Wrigley Field. Is that right?”
Actually, if we are going to waste money on sports, we should put that money towards developing something interesting like bringing F1 to Chicago. Doing so would turn foreign attention to Chicago and would help us with investment. If the Ricketts wants to improve their toy, they can pay for it. Unless you are going to add 40,000 seats, the improvements are not going to do much for revenue for the rest of us.
But in answer to your question, more spending is not my request. My request is that you do what your mommy taught you and say thanks when somebody gives you a gift like, for instance, roads and teacher pensions. Time for downstaters to act like big boys, for a change.
- silverback - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 12:23 pm:
Chicago, if you feel the need to belittle Southern Illinois I would think you would be happy to be rid of us. Why would you want to continue to be associated with us? I personally would agree to double my state income tax obligation to be rid of Chicago.
- OldSmoky2 - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 12:41 pm:
“Are you gonna send all your criminals and mentally ill people to Lake County instead of Downstate prisons and facilities? Services like that are the reason the money is disproportionately located Downstate.”
Uh, jk, one, I cited tax revenues, and Downstaters pay less per capita than folks in the Chicago area.
Two, the Cook County Jail, located in Chicago, is the largest in the country.
Three, anytime anyone proposes closing or consolidating expensive state prisons Downstate to save money, where do the loudest objections come from? That would be from Downstate, where counties see building new prisons as a way to create jobs. To wit, here’s the McLeansboro Times-Leader, March 1, 2012, on Gov. Quinn’s proposal to close Tamms:
“Closing Tamms, one of the state’s newest prisons, will put about 300 people out of work in Alexander County.
I don’t know if the governor’s been to Alexander County lately, but if he had, he’d know Tamms is one of the biggest employers in the area. If it’s closed, the 300 people he wants to fire aren’t going to have an easy time finding new jobs. The unemployment rate in Alexander County is already 12.1 percent.”
- Aaron - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 12:42 pm:
The Southern Illinoisans want out? Let ‘em out.
Of course, I don’t how they expect to fill places like Tamms that provide jobs they covet so much. It’ll just become dilapidated and decrepit in their tax-free utopia. Of course, with no taxes you would think every business would like to move there, but they wouldn’t because there wouldn’t be the same access to human capital.
- Deep South - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 12:51 pm:
===My request is that you do what your mommy taught you and say thanks when somebody gives you a gift like, for instance, roads and teacher pensions. Time for downstaters to act like big boys, for a change.===
A gift? Do you think you’re the only one who pays taxes? I guess your Mommy didn’t teach you not to whine so much. I would guess I probably pay way more in motor fuel taxes that you do…given the long distances between destinations out here in rural Illinois. And did you say “thanks” to your downstate neighbors for housing all your criminals? I thought not. You see it is a two way street.
- ZC - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 12:53 pm:
As a Cook County resident, I did take a tour of Southern IL a few years back and had a blast. Visited the burial mounds near St Louis, got a corn dog, fed a white tiger and saw a fantastic gospel concert at the DuQuoin State Fair, hiked the Little Grand Canyon and went up Bald Knob, posed with Superman and marveled at the Garden of the Gods. DownState rocks and I would be sorry to see it go… Chicagoans who tourist up to Wisconsin or don’t get any further South than Starved Rock are missing out on a lot of beautiful attractions. I wish there were an easier faster way to get public transport from the top of the state down to the top, you’ might see more tourism dollars going South as more Cook Countiers understood in particular how beautiful the Shawnee is. Might promote more intrastate cultural understanding too. We’re not as different from each other as we think we are ( while recognizing, it’s not quite the same culture down South).
- lincoln's beard - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 1:03 pm:
Bah, let the Butternuts and Copperheads leave. Let them join Kentucky and Missouri. Cairo and Cape Girardeau aren’t strategically important anymore, and those were the only reasons we wanted to keep the secessionist regions of Illinois around anyway.
- cermak_rd - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 1:04 pm:
I guess I’d be curious to know why the 20% of folks not living in northern IL feel slighted when important legislation they want doesn’t see the light of day. What important legislation is this? If it isn’t something that would offend the 80% living up in the northern part of the state (i.e. abortion restrictions) I can’t imagine that it would be ignored.
Legislation that only affects farms and doesn’t have a negative impact on environment, labor laws, etc. usually does get passed, doesn’t it?
- Skeeter - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 1:04 pm:
Deep South,
It is my fault that you choose to live in an area where you need to drive more? Don’t blame me for your poor choices. It takes too long to drive and it costs too much? WAHHH!
And with regard to housing our inmates — we tried to close a few of those prisons, and how did you all respond? We would be thrilled to relieve you of that burden and create jobs in Chicago.
So yeah, you need to stop whining and say thanks.
- cermak_rd - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 1:05 pm:
And how much of this is just being angry that there aren’t enough votes in the non-northern region of the state to actually elect statewide pols?
- Going nuclear - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 1:42 pm:
=== And did you say “thanks” to your downstate neighbors for housing all your criminals? I thought not. ===
That argument doesn’t wash. I seem to remember downstate officials falling over themselves to land a correctional facility because it represented economic development and jobs for their community.
I live downstate and “get it” that some of my neighbors don’t like Chicago. It’s big, complex and full of people that are different. We seem to have a chip on our shoulder because most folks up north don’t pay much attention to us. On the other hand, we don’t exactly put out the welcome mat.
In the end, we all want the same things: a decent job, nice place to live and opportunities for a better life. Unfortunately, it’s easier these days to stress our differences than to work together to find common ground.
- champaigndweller - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 1:46 pm:
Not all of downstate is Southern Illinois. I would guess that a lot of people in the far southern counties have more in common with Kentucky and Missouri than the counties farther to the north. Having said that, I understand the notion of disrespect–and it doesn’t have anything to do with feelings or whining. I’m thinking of former governor Blago who couldn’t wait to get out of Springfield and quite a few members of his administration who referred to Springfield as “Springtucky”. That attitude doesn’t foster a lot of desire to work together.
- Anonymous - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 1:48 pm:
Sheila Simon and Rutherford are both Downstate.
- not applicable - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 3:02 pm:
As a Chicago resident, it would be an HONOR to detach from downstate IL.
- lincoln's beard - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 3:11 pm:
We have more in common with Missouri and Kentucky than with Chicago! We don’t like or want to visit Chicago! We despise your Chicago politicians!
How dare you compare us to Missouri and Kentucky! Why don’t Chicagoans ever visit us? Why don’t Chicago politicians want to work or live down here with us?
- Deep South - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 3:22 pm:
===It is my fault that you choose to live in an area where you need to drive more? Don’t blame me for your poor choices.===
Is it my fault you chose to live in Chicago and pay the taxes that fund the programs we can’t afford in the deep south? Talk about poor choices.
OK…lets talk about poor choices:
I’ll say thanks in the form of tax funds for Wrigley Field when the Cubs win the Series. You know when that’ll be? A cold day in Hell.
- Six Degrees of Separation - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 3:36 pm:
I guess that I-55 Corridor and Interstate must be pretty bare about now …and I-57 the same … Yep, wasted pavement there.
my guess - Just people and trucks passing through, few from Cook County except for the few who are visiting relatives in St. Louis and Memphis. And state legislators in session on I-55.
- Stateline - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 3:55 pm:
On Tuesday we fought with Wisconsin. On Thursday we fought with Indiana. Today we fight with ourselves. We all need to take a deep breath and relax.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 3:57 pm:
- Six Degrees of Separation -
I think you said it best … “my guess”
There is a lot going on there, besides passing through. That is NOT a guess.
- Cheswick - Friday, Apr 20, 12 @ 4:10 pm:
Well, they are the last Confederate State.