I think something just froze over
Monday, Dec 1, 2014 - Posted by Rich Miller
* From a January 5, 2014 Bloomington Pantagraph editorial…
Fundamentally, Quinn’s approach rests on the assumption that the state has a revenue problem. But that’s not the case. The state’s biggest financial problem is a lack of spending discipline.
There is no reason to give the state additional revenue, and Quinn’s approach ignores the fact that taxpayers are already paying more.
The governor needs to understand that adding taxes — no matter how popular it may sound — is a failed strategy.
* From a June 1 Bloomington Pantagraph editorial…
We have heard many of the Democrats say consistently that it’s impossible to cut the budget enough to make up for the lower tax revenues caused by rolling back the tax rates. But then we get another story, like the one by Springfield Bureau Chief Kurt Erickson, that millions of dollars have been spent in Medicaid payments to dead people. The savings are there; the General Assembly just needs to look for them.
OK, those were not payments to dead people. Those were payments to providers, but whatever. That’s not the point here.
* From the Bloomington Pantagraph’s endorsement of Bruce Rauner…
But the job-killing income tax and an anti-business sentiment that prevails in state government has harmed the state’s economy.
* Guess what happened after their guy won the governor’s race? From a November 30, 2014 Pantagraph editorial…
For the short term, reductions in spending and increases in revenues are the only practical solutions to the state’s budget problems.
All emphasis added for obvious reasons.
- Wordslinger - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 9:53 am:
It’s sad that someone can rise through the ranks of an old-line Illinois newspaper and be so ignorant to think that Medicaid payments go to enrolles.
- Anyone Remember - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 9:54 am:
Perhaps they heard from their readers who work at ISU?
- RNUG - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 9:57 am:
Rich, re the June story you should have also noted that most Medicaid money is federal pass-thru with just a small state match, ergo, most the savings would not have been available for other state spending.
- nothin's easy... - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 9:58 am:
And the print press wonders why subscriptions decrease monthly…
- Judgment Day - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 9:59 am:
To paraphrase the late Sen. Everett Dirksen:
“You have to stick to your principles.
And your first principle should be flexibility”.
- RNUG - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 10:00 am:
As far as the newspaper’s U-turn, I expect the main stream media’s “new” storyline is / will be Illinois on it’s way to recovery with just a bit of direction from Rauner.
- RNUG - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 10:02 am:
… and now I’ll be expecting the Cubs to win the World Series in 2015 !
- anon - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 10:03 am:
The conservative position on new revenues changed as soon as their interest changed. We will see the same happen among GOP legislators, including some who have taken the Norquist anti-tax pledge.
- Nonplussed - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 10:04 am:
==And the print press wonders why subscriptions decrease monthly…==
Newspapers aren’t going away. Just the other day I was discussing this with my blacksmith…
- Gooner - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 10:13 am:
And the Thompson-ization of Illinois continues.
It won’t be too long before we start referring to “Big Bruce Rauner.”
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 10:26 am:
The consistency is that they seem to be consistent in backing the narrative that helps their chosen ones, even if it means being inconsistent in thought.
- Judgment Day - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 10:27 am:
“… and now I’ll be expecting the Cubs to win the World Series in 2015!”
——————
Too early. The Cubs will make some noise in 2015, maybe even .500 or a little better. Maybe (if they get Lester and a second tier pitcher in FA) even contend for a wild card spot (a real stretch).
But 2016/2017, watch out. The kids are coming into their own.
- RNUG - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 10:29 am:
- Judgment Day -
That’s what my son (the Red Sox fan) has been telling me …
- Rayne of Terror - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 10:31 am:
At what point does the Pantagraph stop putting scare quotes around “temporary” income tax increase?
- Aldyth - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 10:31 am:
There sure is a whole lot of magical thinking out there. If we all wish hard enough, click our heals together, and say “Deficit go away and lower our taxes”, we can make magic happen!!!
- Dirty Red - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 10:38 am:
We don’t call it The Slantagraph for nothing.
- SAP - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 10:46 am:
I think that the web domain name tankingforrauner.com is still available.
- Anonymous - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 10:52 am:
Have you read the Pantagraph lately? It can’t be considered a real newspaper. The content is largely wire service copy and any “editorial” if it can even be called that, looks like it’s been produced by a first year journalism student. Their comments are more of a reflection of what local journalism has become than shilling for Rauner.
- Arizona Bob - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 10:53 am:
Regarding the “new revenue” issue, the GA have not given any indication they’re concerned about cutting waste, duplication of services, and cutting the corrution and cronyism from state spending practices, but have chosen not to do so. I’ve enumerated what can be reformed or deferred in capital work many times before, and education and pension reform hasn’t even taken a first step towards constitutional cuts for new employees and future “double dippers”.
Until we see this, there’s no reason to believe that a tax increase or extension will do anything but perpetuate the patronage and cronyism. We tried “trusting” the GA and gave them two years to get their act together and live within their statutory means. They refused to do so. Let them stew in their mess and be forcee to cut what they’re giving away to their political buddies now.
- Marty Funkhouser - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 10:59 am:
Most downstate newspaper editorial pages are an embarrassment. The Pantagraph, the Southern Illinoisan and the Herald & Review don’t have editorial page editors, so their editors or managing editors are left writing the editorials, which they spend a small fraction of their time on given other demands on them, such as figuring out where to cut next at the direction of their rapacious corporate owner, Lee Enterprises. They don’t make phone calls or do any independent reporting, resulting in the populist claptrap Rich highlighted above. Most downstate editors lazily took it on faith that the “Chicago Democratic machine” is the state’s problem and that once Rauner was in, everything would be wine and roses. I’m surprised The Pantagraph finally considered the budget math. Of course, they didn’t bother until it was Bloomington-Normal’s ox that was going to be gored. A month too late, I guess.
- anon - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 11:17 am:
AZ Bob may not realize it, but the Pantagraph just gave its blessing for a tax hike, now that a Republican will be governor. Bob’s disagreement is with the conservative editors and perhaps with Rauner, if he comes to the same conclusion as his endorsers.
- JS Mill - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 11:26 am:
While I agree with anon@10:52, the Pantagraph has a history of doing a little schilling for their guys. Whether they understand it or not (me thinks not)a reduction in revenue of $4 billion or more will hit central and southern Illinois even harder than it will the northeast section of our state. We just don’t have the economic juice down here to offset the reductions and expect the “growth” to take over.
- circularfiringsquad - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 11:28 am:
So when the Big P as we like to call does the Thompson-Edgar double cross you know we have crossed into never never land
Go Mitt Go
- Smitty Irving - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 11:28 am:
Arizona Bob -
The 1990 edition of Neil Hartigan called - he wants his 1990 campaign materials back.
- in the know - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 11:30 am:
consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.
- UIC Guy - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 11:31 am:
’short-term’ here means ‘until a Democrat is next elected Gov.’, right?
I expect something similar on the national level: continued (and quote mistaken) screams about the deficit until a Republican is elected Pres., and then back to Dick Cheney’s dictum: ‘the deficit doesn’t matter’.
- DuPage - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 11:34 am:
@Arizona Bob10:53=constitutional cuts for… future “double dippers”.=
Exactly how does a “double dipper” cost more then anyone else doing the job? If someone is retired, they get their pension. If they take another job, they get paid for doing that job. If someone else takes the job, the state pays them. Meanwhile, the retiree sits at home and gets paid his pension. The state pays out the same total amount, and gets a much less experienced employee. Please explain how that will save the state money.
- anon - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 11:36 am:
It has always been true in the USA that principles in politics are adopted and abandoned when convenient.
It’s only a few pols who stick to their principles, even when circumstances change and it is no longer advantageous to do so. Some of them are featured in JFK’s Profiles in Courage. As Paul Green reminds us, however, all of the Profiles lost the next election.
- Grandson of Man - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 11:37 am:
No mention of “pro-business” reform to go along with a tax increase by the Pantagraph editorial board? Isn’t an upcoming tax increase a “job killer?”
I look forward to the government sessions that will produce our new revenue. I’m curious to see what the legislative package will look like, as far as revenue and “pro-business” reforms that Rauner said he wants.
- vole - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 11:48 am:
Hey, Republicans have shown repeatedly they can’t win elections or govern effectively on one curmudgeonly face. When they get tired of losing their two faces reappear. The twin city Pantagraph captures it perfectly. The happy pappy pump will be primed.
- steve schnorf - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 12:10 pm:
DuPage, don’t confuse Bob with linear reasoning. I don’t think his mind works that way
- Anonymous - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 12:17 pm:
Ah yes, the Pantagraph has not been locally owned for a number of years. The editorials reflect their out of town owner biases. If it weren’t for the local news and sports I would not subscribe.
- Arizona Bob - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 12:18 pm:
@ DuPage:
=Exactly how does a “double dipper” cost more then anyone else doing the job?=
Here’s how, DuPage. When a public employee decides to work until the age of 65, he/she keeps working and doesn’t draw pension until 65. When they “retire” at age 55, they often receive full public penions from that age on, as well a a second salry for doing a similar job in another public job.
If they stayed at the original job, about 10 years of “early” pension would not need to have been paid.
This is a big deal. In education, for example, a high school teacher can retire at close to their actual salary due to “end of career spiking”, then go teach at a JC or university for a full salary until they become vested in the pension program.
At most suburban high schools, it is not unusual for a teacher to make over $100K, and get close to that in pensions. In absolute numbers (ignoring time value of money), that’s about $1 million in unfair and unecessary handouts for the ten years of “second” teaching career. After the 10 year vesting at the JC and university, the teacher makes a second pension they wouldn’t have gotten had they just stayed at the first job. Even if that second pension is only $20K per year at age 65, 15 years of that payout comes to well over $300K when the 3% annual adjustment and time value of money is considered.
The service the public received from the teacher through 65 is the same either way, it’s just with the “double dipping” the taxpayers are stuck with over $1.3 million in additional payouts for this single employee.
If you don’t think that’s a big deal, retake accounting 101.
- Nearly Normal - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 12:20 pm:
Anonymous at 12:17 is mine.
- Bigtwich - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 12:33 pm:
“Truth does not come to all witnesses in naked simplicity. It is likely to come to the biased or interested witness as the image of a rod comes to the beholder through the water, bent and distorted by his bias or interest.” Justice Sam Ervin, State v. Hart, 80 S.E.2d 901 (1954)
- DuPage Dave - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 12:38 pm:
I can’t wait to see what the Raunerites (Rauneristas?) decide is waste and fraud in the state budget. They talk as if that’s a separate line item.
- Demoralized - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 12:40 pm:
== that’s about $1 million in unfair and unecessary handouts for the ten years of “second” teaching career.==
How exactly is it unfair? And how is it a handout?
As Schnorf said, your logic leaves something to be desired.
- former southerner - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 12:47 pm:
The main reason for looking at the Pantagraph these days is for the unintentional entertainment value coming from the clueless comments posted to various stories. Most are hilarious while some are scarier than anything penned by Stephen King. Jesse Fell would not be proud of how his “child” grew up.
- DuPage - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 12:53 pm:
@Arizona Bob12:18
Bob, you left out of the explanation one employee being retired and then AN ADDITIONAL employee doing the job. Add that in and it comes out about the same. You also forgot that early retirees get a reduced pension in most cases.
- Arthur Andersen - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 1:19 pm:
AZ Bob, how many times does that really happen? I’m considerably more familiar with retirement and pension matters than you, and I can say unequivocally that the last thing most K-12 educators are thinking about after 30-34 years of service is hopping back into the pond for 10 more years at age 55 or more. By the way, from TRS’ real world data, average teacher pensions remain around $50k and the average retiree is 58 with 29 years of service.
So do us a favor and shut your pie hole with your ancient irrelevant anecdotal nonsense.
- Anonymous - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 1:44 pm:
In addition to your retirement statistics, Arthur Andersen, it cannot be stressed enough that teachers receive TRS benefits and NOTHING else. Even if they worked at social security paying jobs (as most do) and have earned enough credits to collect, their benefit is often reduced to dollars a day. In terms of additional retirement savings, unless you’re speaking of the highest paying districts, most teachers don’t make enough to live on while working, send their kids to college AND have savings in retirement. The one and only source of financial income in retirement is TRS, to which they contributed almost 10% from every paycheck. Period.
- ex-ISU - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 1:53 pm:
AZ Bob, as a double dipping retiree, I strongly suspect that you don’t have an accurate picture of double dipping retirees and the rules that apply to them. I retired and collect my SURS pension. I also teach part time for the state. The pension laws limit the amount that I teach and earn. The state pays nothing into the pension system (they are not even supposed to pay into the system in this situation) for me and I will see no benefit increase because of the extra teaching. I am paid slightly less on a per course basis now than before I retired. The university does not have to pay a health care premium for me as it is already an earned benefit through my membership in the pension system. The net result is that I am approximately 15% cheaper per course than someone with a similar experience level who chose not to retire. The state incurs no additional pension liability by hiring me and it fulfills a short term need by the university.
You should love the no additional pension liability!
And my pension is smaller because I choose to retire in May as opposed to working a couple of more years.
- Arizona Bob - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 2:08 pm:
@ex ISU
Sounds like you’re adjunct faculty in retirement. I’ve done that as well. It amy work out that working adjunct cost more than it helped in your case.
Some in that situation are more finacially ambitious. I know one guest columnist for the Daily Southtown who retired from CPS after becoming fully vested, went on to teach English at College of DuPage and I believe he earned a SURS pension there, and now he’s paid for “Emeritus” teaching and lecturing.
He really knows how to work the system. Liverla Democrat, of course!
- Arizona Bob - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 2:16 pm:
@DuPage
=Add that in and it comes out about the same.=
Not really. If the retiree continues to work in their original job, the pension isn’t paid out and another employee need not be hired to replace them. There are, of course, scenarios where it’s revenue neutral, like when they’re not replaced.
Of course, only a “non-linear” thinker could figure this out, including time value of money and compounding, so that would clearly be beyond Arthur Anderson’s ken.
- illinifan - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 2:32 pm:
Az Bob….I had a number of employees who worked for me with the state who had retired from private industry. They had received huge “sweetners” to retire, were collecting pensions and were now working under SERS. When they fully retired in their 60’s they would have their private pension, full Social Security and their state pensions….oh my goodness they are triple dipping…no one complains about them.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 2:39 pm:
Rich -
It’s gonna get a lot colder this winter.
The gymnastics from the Daily Herald and Mothership will be a sight to behold.
- walker - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 3:22 pm:
Watching Mother Trib and the DH shift positions, I get the impression that different people at each paper pen the editorials, with differing opinions. If there’s a reaction by others on some board, it is apparently “whatever.”
My problem is when they base an argument on “facts” which are in direct conflict with their own reporters’ stories. Don’t they even read their own papers?
- Anyone Remember - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 3:30 pm:
walker -
“Don’t they even read their own papers?”
No.
- Algonquin J. Calhoun - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 3:55 pm:
“In the know” @11:30.
I’m not quite sure of the reason for your quote - was it to defend the newspapers’ backsliding on the need for more revenue?
If you truly *are* “in the know,” you should get your quotes correct. Emerson said “a *foolish* consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds”
- Enviro - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 4:24 pm:
(10:55 am)
?? pension reform hasn’t even taken a first step towards constitutional cuts for new employees ??
There have been two big steps toward funding state pensions since Quinn has been governor:
1. The Illinois GA passed the 2011 pension reform bill, making constitutional pension cuts for new state employees.
2. Illinois state pension payments have been made every year since Quinn has been governor.
- Arthur Andersen - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 5:07 pm:
Bob, don’t tell me you support forcing people to work beyond their desired, legal retirement date? That’s good for morale and the quality of work product.
Oh, and for being such a genius, you are obviously unaware of the actuarial formula benefit available in TRS and SURS. If someone wants to work an extraordinarily long career, that will put the time value of money and compounding to work for them and pay them more than the formula benefit.
Outside of your hypothetical world, how often does a teacher retire and is not replaced in her classroom? Answer: Almost never. TRS statistics (I know you don’t like facts, sorry) show continued slow growth in full-time active teachers, refuting the myth of a “double-dipping” epidemic. More interestingly, for the first time in decades, average full-time active teacher salaries decreased almost 4% according to data reported to TRS.
I’m sure you will raise a glass to that last one.
- Mr. B.A. - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 5:36 pm:
Arthur:
In the last five years the large suburban district has hired about ten new teachers, at least 15 have been let go and about 20 have retired. Hence, most of those gone have not been replaced. P.E. And Social Science class sizes are through the roof, and elective departments are dropping like flies…
- Wordslinger - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 6:25 pm:
Walker, Big Brain Bruce and his sidekick Statehouse Chick are superficial ideologues who can’t be bothered by facts. Or reading.
- Arthur Andersen - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 7:29 pm:
Mr. B.A. I have no reason to doubt what you report about your local district-I’ve heard similar stories here in Central IL. I’m simply reporting the hard, statewide data that drive the pension funding requirements and which directly contradict Arizona Bob’s frequent trolling on this site.
- Kasich Walker, Jr. - Monday, Dec 1, 14 @ 10:53 pm:
It would be amazing if Rauner took cannabis legalization seriously enough to send exploratory groups to visit Washingtom, Colorado, and Oregon.
- Late to the Party - Tuesday, Dec 2, 14 @ 6:22 am:
Arizona Bob continues to think that people who get a public pension should not retire until the day before they die. This time his argument is wrapped in “double dipping” scenarios, but it is the same line he has spouted time and again.
Reducing an earned retirement benefit cannot be done. Move on.
- Demoralized - Tuesday, Dec 2, 14 @ 8:01 am:
Bob:
Don’t try to compete with Schnorf or Arthur Anderson when it comes to brains. You’ll lose every time.
You come here with the same old tired talking points. Get new ones and preferably new ones that sound halfway intelligent.
As Arthur Anderson said, shut your pie hole because all of us are tired of hearing your garbage.