45 Comments - Not it - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 9:49 am: Someone is also passing petitions in my Chicago neighborhood for a term limit amendment. Looked like a professional. - Anon - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 9:49 am: A push poll? Now that’s amateurism at it’s finest. - Joe Biden Was Here - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 9:52 am: The permanent campaign continues. - JS Mill - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 9:56 am: Manar is not under the control of Madigan and, in fact, has worked across the isle some on this very issue. Trover is showing his colors and they are yellow. - Madison - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:02 am: Manar complaining about this billl without readying an amendment of his own when and if the bill makes it’s way to the Senate only validates Rauners claims, and insinuates he has not done so because he lacks permission. Andy works hard, and I really believe he means well, but is you a Senator in your own right. Fix It the inequity if you believe it exists. - Madison - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:03 am: ” you are” - Frenchie Mendoza - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:03 am: I’m sure others will disagree, but this idea that everyone who disagrees with Rauner — even a little bit — is “under Madigan’s control” will get old pretty quickly. I know, I know — this is meat for the rabid folks that eat it up — but Trover’s incessant whining (and that’s what it is — to me, at least) brings to mind three ideas: (a) that Rauner (by extension) is whining, (b) that Rauner is really not in control despite being Governor and that (c) if you’re not under Madigan, you’re under Rauner — which for the folks in my circle — is far worse than any Madigan/Cullerton/Machine juggernaut. To me (and I’m probably in the minority here) but this is like a Shakespearean play where the main character is oddly ineffectual despite all the apparent trappings of power. The real hero is the quiet, smart guy that causes the main character to fall apart Lear-like. Trover, Schrimpf: they’re the dual Fools, telling the king what he wants to hear. - Arsenal - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:06 am: Manar is another one of those “Just take ‘Yes’ for an answer!” guys. He’s dead serious on school reform, and will give a lot to get it. Besides, lobbing grenades at a Senator who isn’t up again for 4 years is just a waste of time and energy. - facts are stubborn things - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:06 am: high property taxes are a consequence of a poor state funding system for education. It is a part of our structural deficit problem in Illinois. Seems to me like property taxes only go up if duly elected officials vote to do so. Seems like the voters have a way right now of stopping property tax increase…..vote the folks out. Until Illinois updates and improves it’s taxation system to capture the changing nation and growth in our economy — we will be arguing over these things. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:08 am: People are circulating petitions in Daley Plaza “to eliminate gerrymandering”. Same lady asked me twice while sitting in the plaza. - slow down - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:08 am: When you start hurling insults at principled people like Andy Manar, you quickly lose credibility with anyone actually paying attention. How do they expect to actually achieve compromise if they won’t engage someone thoughtful and smart like Manar? - Tom Joad - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:08 am: Making a deal to trade off a local tax freeze for an increase in school funding should include the elimination of bonuses for retiring teachers and administration, including any payments from local sources. - VanillaMan - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:08 am: Manar is correct. What he is warning Illinoisans about is a legitimate concern. The Governor has found political support by telling citizens that they can have a property tax freeze AND better educational funding. Its a lie because they are tied together. If citizens are made aware that they can’t have both, then Governor Rauner’s drive to freeze property taxes stalls. - facts are stubborn things - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:09 am: The pension system and property taxes are a way that Illinois has put off the need to deal with our structural deficit. We continue to want services beyond what our tax system will support. - Nick Name - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:14 am: Trover, on Manar’s call for school funding reform: “Rather than finding excuses to block a property tax freeze, we urge Madigan-Cullerton Democrats like Andy Manar to support a property tax freeze and work with Governor Rauner to increase funding to public education.” Holy cripes. Isn’t increasing funding to public education what school funding reform IS? Jeez! - Tommydanger - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:16 am: And people were also polled on the question: “Would you like to have your cake and eat it too?” - Wensicia - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:19 am: Why doesn’t Trover explain how Rauner will increase education funding with a freeze on all revenue sources? Is there a private billionaires fund put aside to take care of it? The “Madigan-Cullerton” rant is juvenile and already old. - Team Sleep - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:22 am: Arsenal - maybe, but I’m of the belief that Senator Manar has higher aspirations. So lobbing a few choice words at him isn’t a surprise. Nick - there are people who don’t believe that to be a correlation. Will people revist the Meeks plan? After all - he’s now top dog at ISBE. His plan IS the compromise between Governor Rauner’s and Senator Manar’s proposals. - Juice - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:24 am: Last year, $27 billion in property taxes were collected. $16 billion was for school districts (and another billion for Community Colleges). Yet the administration throws another temper tantrum when it is suggested that somehow how the adequacy and equity of education funding should be part of the conversation on property tax relief? I think they need to take a nap for a couple of days before marching off for their next battle in the pointless war. - Arsenal - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:28 am: @ Team Sleep- maybe not surprising, but still not useful, unless Team Rauner thinks Manar is gonna run for Governor in ‘18 (which seems like quite a step for State Senator). And even then, timing is everything… - A guy - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:29 am: Perhaps Andy should make a visit to the suburban collar counties. It would be just like the Rauner appearances except everyone would be booing and no one would be cheering. His version of reform isn’t what they’re after. Cause it ain’t reform. - Juice - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:36 am: A guy, now who is promising to keep the status quo? You do realize there’s actual data out there that demonstrates how inequitable our education funding system is, correct? Does the Governor have any interest in having a conversation about that, when 60% of property taxes are for education? Or is he only interested in campaigning, because reading a number on a poll is a heckuva lot easier than learning facts or y’know, reading. - Bluefish - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:36 am: A guy - If Sen. Manar came to my suburban collar county school district we’d give him a standing ovation. - Team Sleep - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:36 am: Arsenal - look at what Governor Rauner put out yesterday. It reminded me of a “war room” board in an NFL front office. Pros and cons on every prospect and every angle. Same goes for the legislature. Governor Rauner truly believes that he’s playing the long game - and not just on legislation and the budget. He knows who they’ll target when he’s up for reelection. Senator Manar could decide to run for Congress or an open statewide seat (if there even is one). I’m sure that Governor Rauner has considered this - especially since Senator Manar is basically the Dems point person on school funding reform. I noted yesterday that Rauner’s people will now have a hand in recruiting candidates, and salvos like that prove that he will be intimately involved. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:37 am: I signed a gerrymandering petition in front of the post office a couple days ago. When I asked the fellow with the petition who was behind the drive, he told me he didn’t know. I asked him who he had gotten the petitions from, and he said he didn’t know. All he seemed to know was a .org website that he said I should look at. I wonder why anyone would ask for signatures and not know who they were working for. Why did I sign it? Because I’m curious about the followup. - Arsenal - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:43 am: @ Team Sleep- Yeah, but Rauner shouldn’t care if Manar runs for Congress, or one of the statewides (besides maybe Comptroller). In fact, he should welcome that development, ’cause it’ll open up a winnable seat for him. Softening him up “just in case” he runs for those things is actually counter-productive for Rauner. - JS Mill - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:44 am: =Manar complaining about this billl without readying an amendment of his own= Actually, Manar is the sponsor of two different bills related to a new education funding formula. One he co-sponsors with Barickman. SB 1 simply reshuffles the diminished pie that exists today. The other bill, sponsored with Barickman would lead to the creation of an evidenced based funding sustem for schools. - anon - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:49 am: Second highest real estate taxes in the nation, they go up every year, and the school district gets 58% of that tax bill. Learn to manage money—please! - walker - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:50 am: Well, if you’re going to formally tie anything to a property tax freeze bill, (which you shouldn’t,) then Manar’s school funding is certainly more germane than Rauner’s prevailing wage. This myth common among Republicans, that everything and everyone on the Dem side is under Madigan’s control, is becoming very destructive to Rauner’s agenda. Madigan can definitely pump the water, and bring the horses to the well on his timing, but he simply cannot or usually chooses not to make them drink. What Rauner might be having a hard time learning, is that legislatures represent their districts, and just making a deal with Madigan or Cullerton has its limits. It’s democracy vs. business deals. A great deal of the power remains with constituents. - Demoralized - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:53 am: == His version of reform isn’t what they’re after. Cause it ain’t reform.== It is if you’re a poorer district. I don’t exactly feel sorry for some of the more affluent suburban schools. But, there isn’t anybody that’s going to be happy with any reform unless it holds everyone harmless, in which case it isn’t reform. - WhatYouSaidFrenchie - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:54 am: Manar is not even a little bit under Madigan/Cullerton control. He cares about education and makes a very good point. If the governor is allowed to freeze property taxes without a mechanism for making it up through other state sources, he will have the power to starve public education and open the door wide for privatization, and noboby wants that … except the governor. - JS Mill - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:57 am: =Second highest real estate taxes in the nation, they go up every year, and the school district gets 58% of that tax bill.= Right, schools exist in a bubble protected from things like inflation. An, 80% of a schools operating expense is salary and benefits. Not sure if you have insurance or pay for it, but health insurance costs have been rising at a double digit clip for some time, even with employees footing a portion of the expense. People alos have the expectation of a raise every now and then, it can also be good for the economy when wages rise above the rate of inflation versus just keeping up (our salaries have not kept up with inflation since we have not been giving many raises). That is just for starters, but really good, informed comment. /snark. - A guy - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 10:59 am: B-fish, I don’t know what district that is, but if that’s true, you should invite him out there. Juice, Being for the status quo isn’t my position. Manar’s approach is even further from my position. I’d suggest there might be an alternative. - X-prof - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 11:01 am: == He has to run the Bad Opera for his donors before he signs the tax increase.== I think Rauner and his donors could be quite content with a tax increase, as long as it mostly involves raising or extending the sales tax, the most regressive Illinois tax. They most want to avoid increasing the income tax. Rauner said he wants the income tax back down at 3%. If these negotiations ever get around to discussing increased tax revenue, I see another phase of the battle over how to do it. Extending or raising the sales tax will only make the IL tax system even more regressive than it is — a win for Rauner. It’s not clear that Madigan has a problem with that either. But every middle income taxpayer should object. Despite the ISC decision, neither side seems interested in addressing the pension debt. - X-prof - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 11:02 am: Oops, wrong topic. Sorry. - anon - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 11:07 am: JSMill—-How do you like it when new subdivisions and new commercial development pops up in areas? Why should my real estate taxes continue to go up when values are stagnant or declining? Like I said, 58% of that tax bill goes to the school district. And it increases every year. What if my pay doesn’t go up? What if other expenses of mine go up? I’m not obligated to insure you get a pay raise and health insurance coverage. Definitely not snark. - A guy - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 11:36 am: There must be some economy of scale when more people move into a district through housing development, but I don’t think it’s ever been looked at that way. More kids = more $ per student. Old economic models definitely have an effect on this. - Rod - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 11:48 am: The reason Governor Rauner’s team is “summarily dismissive” of Sentor Manar’s discussion of reforming school funding is relatively simple. He has his own solution, or at least part of a solution. That solution in part is every school board would have the power to block collective bargaining for any pay increase, either through changes to the pay schedule or as a result of accumulated years of service, in excess of the amount specified by that local Board of Education. The local Board of Education could prohibit collective bargaining related to the provision of any health insurance, including the payment of premiums, the extent of coverage, or the identity of the insurer. With those and other provisions in place the Governor believes costs could be sufficiently reduced as to make the question of education funding reform less critical. Senator Manar I suspect opposes those provisions, as I do. But these are the reason why Governor Rauner’s people are dismissive of the funding reform concepts. Senator Manar should not talk around the issue the Governor has thrown in his and Democrats faces, which is cutting the benefits and wages of educational employees in Illinois as a big part of a solution to the funding issues the Senator correctly raises. The problem is that there are school district Boards in Sen Manar’s Senate district 48 that would likely welcome the chance to have this level of authority over those employees compensation bargaining ability. An example is Taylorville CUSD 3 which has close to an average salary for teachers of $50,000, if it could lower that to $45,000 it would generate about $770,000 in savings. While Taylorville has a positive cash balance it has proposed eliminating positions and proposed out other cost savings to the amount of about $500,000. I think there is good reason to avoid compensation reductions for teachers in terms of quality, especially in southern Illinois which already has reduced salary levels for teachers based on the cost of living. But Senator Manar is talking around what the Governor is actually proposing and instead talking up his proposal which in two different variants has failed to pass the Assembly. - Lahkonysm - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 11:55 am: So we want to cut funding to wducation because we dont have the money; and push the costs of education mote to the locals. We also want the locals to pick up the teacher retirement expenses increasing their operational expenses. But we then want to freeze property taxes whacking off the locals ability to fix the budget holes being passed downwards. Seems a bit odd to pass budget holes on to others so the State doesnt have to find ways to fill them… And the. Prohibit those you are passing the budget holes too from being able to raise taxes to deal with the mess being handed to you. On a side note how is a property tax freeze smaller governemnt? That is purely big givernment to take an action that binds the locals. The locals are answerable to their voters…. It seems local communities should keep the right to say if they want to pay more in property taxes for education or water, or police etc….. And the State should stau out of it. The locals dont need big brother state telling them how to manage their assesments…. Thats why they have local elections and local leaders answerable to the local voters. - Arizona Bob - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 12:20 pm: =A guy - If Sen. Manar came to my suburban collar county school district we’d give him a standing ovation= until they found out how much of their kids education funding was going to be shifted to Manar’s rural districts and Chicago from suburban taxpayers pocketbooks…. - Arizona Bob - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 12:38 pm: @JS MILLS =Right, schools exist in a bubble protected from things like inflation. An, 80% of a schools operating expense is salary and benefits.= And who exactly inflates those salaries and benefits, JS? It’s YOUR school board, NOT the state. A district should be able to control its costs to its revenues, and the only way to do that is to prohibit teacher strikes. I assume that you support that prohibition? =but health insurance costs have been rising at a double digit clip for some time, even with employees footing a portion of the expense.= My gosh, you expect your employees to pay a PORTION of health insurance costs? Most private sector programs have employees footing 40-60% of the total premiums. How much do they pay in your district, JS? In my old Illinois district we taxpayers picked up 93% of their gold plated premiums, and any refunds for lower than funded use went ENTIRELY to benefit the staff, NOT to defray taxpayer or student fee cost. =People also have the expectation of a raise every now and then, it can also be good for the economy when wages rise above the rate of inflation versus just keeping up (our salaries have not kept up with inflation since we have not been giving many raises).= I guess they don’t teach economics in education programs anymore. Salary and benefit increases can only be justified by increasing profits (schools don’t have this), increases in productivity achieved through providing better student outcomes with greater numbers of students, or making those working around you more productive and efficient. How many of your top end salary teachers are REQUIRED to have bigger class sizes? How much more productivity do you demand in return for step increases and schedule increases? What REQUIREMENT do you have that higher compensated employees get greater school improvement responsibilities? Tell us how your staff with advanced degrees in education have much better student outcomes than those who don’t to justify their substantially higher cost. =That is just for starters, but really good, informed comment. /snark.= Ditto - anon - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 1:56 pm: A little sense of entitlement, seems to me! - wrangler - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 5:09 pm: Republicans shame on you! Vote present! Because you are afraid it will be used against you for voting against property tax freeze. There won’t be a Republican elected in 2016. I guess if he doesn’t beat you with his war chest in the primary the Dems will lick your bones in the general! Better start standing up to Rauner or your fate is sealed!! - Mama - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 8:05 pm: What is Dr James Meeks education plan? - siriusly - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 7:45 am: “- Mama - Tuesday, Jun 9, 15 @ 8:05 pm: What is Dr James Meeks education plan?” HA! I think he will take a bus of kids from his church and lead a protest outside of a rich school. Meeks is good on symbolism no actual plan - just like his boss Rauner. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.