114 Comments - A guy - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:39 am: Measured and rational. - Doofman - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:40 am: I’d love to see some data on public opinion of campaign/political ads in general (not specific to candidate or content). I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find that they’re even less popular than Speaker Madigan, especially 18 months from the next general election. - South of Sherman - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:40 am: Some people will profit from the poisoned atmosphere at the Capitol, politically or otherwise. Others will suffer from that poisoned atmosphere. If you’re in the former category, then I think you would see these ads as “benign.” If you’re in the latter category, I suspect it looks much different. - wowsers - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:42 am: I wish Sandack would give an example of the Governor trying to negotiate, besides the amount of money he plans to contribute to the politicians HE controls. If you believe the members who were in the closed door meetings, there was no negotiation, but take it or leave it. Bradley puts Rauners bill on the board and the GOP members vote no or present. What is Rauner negotiating and with whom is he negotiating? - RunBikeSwim - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:42 am: Of course - IPI is all in on the ads. Their money master says to be. BVR wants “structural reforms” before he signs a budget. Structural reforms mean more profits for corporations and his buddies who helped him get elected. So much for shaking up Springfield and the status quo - sounds like Blago is back. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:44 am: ===He (Tillman) said that for decades unions have used their money to direct policies set in place by Democrats.=== Did I miss Ads, in the June after a November election by Democrats? If I have, my bad. ===“They’ve liked having monopoly control of the narrative. Now they’ve got a competitor and I think it’s going to be good for the people of Illinois,” he (Tillman) said.=== The narrative seems to be; “Help me, ’cause I’m workin’, but failin’ to convince people that my Agenda is passable in this make up of a General Assembly, and please, don’t be blamin’ me for my cuts.” Actually, Rep. Ron Sandack sounded the most rational and of all quoted, including a quite thoughtful Sen. Matt Murphy. The reality for me? Not one explained how this moves negotiations further. It’s different, possibly odd/strange, benign, even a taking over an alleged false narrative. Ok, you did it, now what? - John A Logan - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:46 am: Rauner is learning a big job, and learning it on the fly. The man is an ideologue, and needs to realize that as the Rolling Stones said “you can’t always get what you want.” However, this overtime session and the tension in government that exists will be healthy for the state in the long run. B.R. is making some silly mistakes, but the opposing messaging should sharpen the politics on all sides. - Phil - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:46 am: The Democrats have had “monopoly control of the narrative” according to Tillman? Hardly. They’ve had monopoly control of the government, but the Trib editorial board has had more control over the media “narrative” than Madigan’s press shop. Despite that, the Dems didn’t lose a single member of the House, even as Rauner was winning at the top of the ticket. That’s why we’re in a stalemate…Rauner and Madigan both can lay claim to electoral mandates. - AC - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:48 am: ==I think== When your own supporters have to speculate about the intent of your ad campaign, I question the effectiveness of that campaign. - Wordslinger - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:48 am: It’s finally happened — after decades glued to cable TV news programs, some peoples’ brains have turned to mush. They’ve become incapable of even beginning to discuss the issues involved. Take a look at the comments above — it’s all meaningless TV sound bites and personality comments. I read an AP story this morning that said Democrats and the governor are battling over the budget. Huh? Since when? The governor hasn’t said “boo” about his unbalanced budget since he introduced it four months ago, nor have any GOP legislators. Those budget books are dusty doorstops, never opened, never to be referred to again. What battles? As far as I can tell, there’s been nothing of substance going on at all. The governor stays in his Blago Bunker and lobs a few grenades out every once in a while. That’s it. - Arsenal - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:48 am: ==Did I miss Ads, in the June after a November election by Democrats?== The Speaker has already done some mailers. That being said, this is just silly: ==“For the first time, the people of Illinois are going to hear another point of view,”== “Madigan sux!” is not a new point of view. - slow down - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:48 am: It’s as if Rauner and company haven’t been paying attention to how Madigan operates over the course of all these years. Attacking Madigan and questioning his character and ethics is not going to make him more likely to compromise. Just the opposite. Yet Rauner and company seem intent to double down on this strategy. Incredibly shortsighted. - Michelle Flaherty - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:49 am: You know if I had an extra $20 million sitting around, campaign ads would be the first thing I’d spend it on. I’m usually skeptical about politicians, but I find myself so connected to this new governor. He really reflects my priorities and views. - Sir Reel - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:50 am: Yes, people elected a Republican Governor. They also elected an overwhelming majority of Democrats to the General Assembly. Maybe that suggests they want the 2 sides to meet in the middle. How foolish of me. They want Rauner’s agenda 100%. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:51 am: - Arsenal - point taken. Let me rephrase; “Did I miss a million-dollar television Ad blitz, in the June after a November election by Democrats?” - Muscular - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:52 am: Some of the structural reforms save money for the taxpayer. With lower taxes, living is more affordable and people will stay in Illinois rather than move away. With fewer residents, Illinois has fewer people to tax and spread the cost of government. Bruce Rauner is the only advocate for the taxpayer in Springfield. - Ben Franklin - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:53 am: Voters know there are two sides to a story, and a millionaire, who himself proposed a phony budget, fools no one with his deceit, except those who want to be fooled. - Langhorne - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:53 am: ===Madigan has “been resistant to that so far, and I think the ads are an effort to try to persuade the people around this state to remind the speaker that they elected a governor to help change the direction of the state and they want (Madigan’s) participation instead of his intransigence,” Murphy said.=== Um, matt, voters elected not-pat-quinn, but how many dems did the public dump in favor of repubs? Not a mandate. You know it takes 30/60 votes, and now 36/71. Public opinion will not move madigan. - Arsenal - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:53 am: OW- Yeah, and I think that eventually, a large enough difference in degree becomes a difference in kind. That’s what’s going on here. Plus, I can’t recall a June ad blitz that’s quite so useless. - Skeptic - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:54 am: “that they elected a governor to help change the direction of the state” True indeed. Except that the opposite of Quinn isn’t necessarily Rauner. - downstate commissioner - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:54 am: Saw the ad for the first time last night, and again this morning. I saw them them as attack ads. On the other hand, I realize that to me, Rauner’s name is now always attached to a bunch of descriptive words that would get me banned on this forum. As such, my opinions of his ads are probably of no value… - hisgirlfriday - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:54 am: If the ads are an effort to get the people to contact Madigan to tell him to work with Rauner why no contact info? Because they’re worried the ads are too weak to actually prompt average voters to action? - Gooner - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:54 am: Sandack was close when he described the ads as “benign.” I would go with “meaningless” or “easy to ignore” or “a waste”, but benign works too. - The Dude Abides - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:54 am: Sen. Murphy and other GOP members keep saying that Madigan and other Dems need to accept the will of the people which was expressed in the last election and that the election gave Rauner a mandate for change. Most of the sticking points with Democrats are bills which contain poison anti Union pills. There is no mandate for this, the folks that voted for Rauner didn’t vote for him because of his anti Union message. Let me refresh the memory of those who may disagree. Rauner expressed some anti Union rhetoric leading up to the Primary. Once he won the primary there was no anti Union message at all from him during the General Election campaign. If there is such widespread support for these anti Union initiatives, then why no mention of them by Rauner during his campaign leading up to he General election? - Jimmy CrackCorn - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:54 am: ==For the first time, the people of Illinois are going to hear another point of view…They’ve liked having monopoly control of the narrative. Now they’ve got a competitor and I think it’s going to be good for the people of Illinois,” he said== Oh the poor oligarchs in this State. It’s nice to see things are looking up for them. Forget the fact that they were able to accumulate their wealth because of decades of artificially low flat taxes… no one ever listened to them. Forget that the economic recovery has been disproportionately limited to the wealthiest. As Ken Griffin said, the rich should have MORE of an influence on policy. So, just deal with poors and the union workers that serve you. Its time for the IPI to talk… nay SCREAM. - Arsenal - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:56 am: ==Bruce Rauner is the only advocate for the taxpayer in Springfield.== Bruce Rauner will raise taxes. He’s even *said* he will raise taxes. This whole argument is over whether or not GA Dems have to slit their own throats before he does it. But he will do it, and he’s told you he will do it. - Gooner - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:56 am: Regarding Sandack’s comment about negotiation — Republicans won’t even vote for Rauner’s agenda. Rauner suggests it and it doesn’t have their votes. It is tough to negotiate with people who don’t vote for what they say they want. - phocion - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:56 am: Sir Reel, again. The legislative “super majority” is a fiction. It is a gerrymandered map created by the Democrats after Pat Quinn squeaked into victory in 2010. The people did not elect an overwhelming majority of Democrats to the General Assembly. The Democrats chose their voters, not the other way around. One more time, look at the actual votes for legislators and you will find an even number of votes for Democratic candidates as for Republicans throughout the state. And yes, Rauner has budged quite a bit. Madigan refuses to negotiate. People are not angry with Rauner. They are furious with Madigan - and he is wearing the jacket for this. - From the Stateline - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:56 am: To use his own words, the voters elected BVR to shake up Springfield; he doesn’t get to come back six months later and whine to them that the other kids aren’t playing nice. To put it in a business metaphor, the voters are BVR’s “boss,” and they don’t want to hear excuses. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:57 am: - Muscular -, if you’d like to do the math with your talking points, no one will stop you. Also note - Muscular -, Rauner will have to sign a revenue increase that will probably be larger than the tax savings, ’cause, well, there’s a $3 billion hole out there… - G'Kar - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:57 am: Yes, the majority of voters voted for change. But it was change at the top they supported. And I suspect most did want to see change in the way Illinois operated. However, I strongly suggest many, if not most of those who voted for Rauner do not support many parts of his agenda. - LizPhairTax - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:58 am: I am going to give this the serious level of analysis it deserves: Remember the ad where Diana hated Bruce’s ugly shirt, but they joked about it and it really humanized them and reminded us that they were just like us? This one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqzFaWpDLOI Well, Bruce has another one just like it that he uses when he’s out and about. It pops up at :22 in the new ad. That’s about all I learned. You think he bought every shirt in the store? - South of Sherman - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:58 am: “Attacking Madigan and questioning his character and ethics is not going to make him more likely to compromise. Just the opposite. Yet Rauner and company seem intent to double down on this strategy. Incredibly shortsighted.” Or perhaps that was the intent all along…? - Honeybear - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:58 am: “For the first time”?….wow..really Mr. Tillman? (total snark) I did not know that we’d only been hearing one point of view! I had no idea! You mean that Arizona Bob and A Guy have been on my side all along? warm fuzzies…warm fuzzies……group hug. - Etown - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:58 am: Rauner still can stake the high ground which is what he is doing the with these ads. 9 out of 10 people could care less and haven’t been paying attention to what is going on in Disneyland aka Springfield so I think Rauner will score some point with these ads even if they aren’t all that effective - Arsenal - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:00 am: ==It is a gerrymandered map created by the Democrats after Pat Quinn squeaked into victory in 2010.== As discussed earlier on this blog, Rauner won 15/39 Senate Dem districts. - Tommydanger - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:01 am: Muscular: How is your formula working in Kansas? - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:01 am: - phocion -, MJM won majorities 4 out of 5 times with a GOP drawn map. You’re welcome. It’s the micro versus the macro. - walker - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:02 am: When Matt Murphy et al try to defend tepid, directionless ads, as “benign”, they are really stretching to find something positive to say. What is this — a cherry bomb to warn that some RPGs might be on the way? If you’re going to attack, do it with some strength and precision. If you’re not, don’t bother. A “benign” attack ad … LOL! Rauner is often a half-measures kind of guy. - the Other Anonymous - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:02 am: “Will” of the people is easily misread. I thonkbtge will of the people in November was to replace Quinn with a Governor who would raise minimum wage, defend voting rights, and tax millionaires. It’s the onkyvway to read an election that Rauner won and so did a supermajority of Democrats with those three (progressive) issues overwhelmingly approved. - Gooner - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:02 am: Etown, Let’s say you are right. Let’s say 5% of voters are swayed. Or even 10%. So what? Is that going to flip a vote for the budget? Is it going to flip a seat in 2016? So what’s the point? - Jack Stephens - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:04 am: @muscular: Bruce said shared sacrifice. Since he has 50 million more reasons to sacrifice than me…..he can sacrifice more. Did you know with the income tax cut (that he asked for) he pockets about $14,000.00 a week? Most importantly he was elected to govern, not produce Popeil Pocket Fisherman commercials a la the Dan Akroyd parody on SNL. He feels he cannot do,the job he can always resign. I’m unimpressed with his arrogance. - kimocat - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:05 am: Hey Muscular — which taxpayers are you talking about? Last time I looked, teachers, state workers, electricians, plumbers, prison guards, firemen and police officers were all taxpayers. But you and BVR want to “save” the taxpayers of this state by cutting the wages and benefits of these middle class taxpayers to do it. So it just goes back to which taxpayers you are talking about. BVR is all about saving the 1 percenters from taxation and reducing Illinois’ middle class to a more desperate and appreciative work force. I don’t know how the Rauner people can even say things like they are standing up for the middle class when it is so obvious a bald-faced lie. - Frenchie Mendoza - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:05 am: BTW — I think a more effective ad for the Ds — at least a counter-ad (although I know the Ds have said they’re not going to advertise on TV) is to ask why your GOP elected officials *aren’t voting* on legislation. - Juice - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:06 am: phocion, what is Madigan supposed to negotiate over? He said he thinks there needs to be a balanced budget. The Governor introduced a budget that was out of whack by billions of dollars. When he demonstrates that he is actually capable of balancing the budget without revenue, (which would extend beyond cutting non-GRF items that are doing nothing to actually close the gap) then maybe he’ll get the Dems attention. But right now it’s just a bunch of anti-union populist nonsense coming out of the second floor. Wake me up when he actually demonstrates an interest in governing. - Ambrose Chase - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:07 am: If you have to explain the raison d’etre for your ads, how good can they be? - Muscular - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:07 am: Yes, BVR has acknowledged that some kind of short term tax increase may be necessary. However, democrats will need to agree on reforms or face the possibility of a government shutdown and severe budget cuts. Their constituency is tax consumers so they are vulnerable to this leverage. - nona - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:07 am: Will any reporter ask Murphy or Sandack exactly which of the governor’s proposals would balance the FY16 budget? It certainly wouldn’t be a term limits proposal that would go on the ballot in Nov. ‘16. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:11 am: === Their constituency is tax consumers so they are vulnerable to this leverage.=== Heaven forbid you need a cop or a fireman, or are you taking your own garbage to a dump, or, are you getting your own water from your own well… are you traveling on gravel, non-man-made roads all day too? You’d be surprised who are tax consumers. - Amused - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:11 am: As the bible says, “it’s easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven”. The governor should be more interested in answering to this calling rather than his rich friends and learn to compromise for the benefit of all. Stop treating people as an income/expense item. If you have all this money to burn, then actually help people. - Norseman - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:12 am: === “It’s understandable the speaker would not like the ads because they tell the truth about what he and the legislators he controls are up to in Springfield — protecting the political class at the expense of the middle class,” said Rauner spokesman Lance Trover. […] === “Truth,” Lance your office can’t handle the truth. - Arsenal - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:13 am: ==Yes, BVR has acknowledged that some kind of short term tax increase may be necessary.== Then either he’s not “looking out for taxpayers”, or he’s not the “only” one doing so. ==However, democrats will need to agree on reforms== Reforms that have nothing to do with the budget, and are all about punishing Democrats for being Democrats… ==or face the possibility of a government shutdown and severe budget cuts== I doubt that Rauner holding the gun to his own head is that effective of a threat. ==Their constituency is tax consumers so they are vulnerable to this leverage.== *Everyone’s* constituency is “tax consumers”. You and I are both tax consumers. - Michael Westen - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:13 am: “For the first time, the people of Illinois are going to hear another point of view,” As with many things that come from Tillman and IPI, this is patently absurd. For the past two election cycles (or more), Republicans have spent millions and millions of dollars, both statewide and district to district, with virtually only one message: “Fire Madigan.” There may be more money behind it this time, but it is the same message. Hardly “the first time.” While they have driven up Madigan’s negatives, if the strategy was to win House and Senate seats, then that strategy has failed miserably. I’m predicting that more of the same will result in more of the same-failure. - Muscular - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:19 am: @Jack, I refuse to engage in class envy. I will say though that Bruce Rauner is a tax payer, one of the state’s largest, and not a tax consumer. He did not request a tax cut. Democrats had a temporary tax increase that he asked to let expire so he could develop a budget with reduced spending and appropriate revenues. - nona - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:21 am: Speaking of mandates, ask Murphy and Sandack when candidate Rauner told general election voters that his top priority is to emasculate unions? If he never said it, then he can’t claim a mandate for it. The fact is when he was asked about unions, candidate BR said that unions would NOT be a priority. So he is actually going against his mandate. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:23 am: ===I refuse to engage in class envy. I will say though that Bruce Rauner is a tax payer, one of the state’s largest, and not a tax consumer.=== Ugh… Rauner clouted his Daughter, his denied Daughter into a public school, paid for by taxes. Seems like a tax consumer to me. Further… Rauner is taking his own garbage to a dump, or, is getting his own water from his own well… Rauner is traveling on gravel, non-man-made roads all day too? This isn’t dorm room. This isn’t sophomore year of college. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:23 am: ==and not a tax consumer== I don’t even know what that means. If you mean he’s not a user of government services then you are full of it. We all are. - Jack Stephens - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:24 am: @muscular: Bruce is not a tax consumer? Really? Funny I drove through Winnetka recently and noticed nice paved roads, schools, a police car and a fire station! Why I’ve even eaten at the McDonalds in Winnetka and they collected a sales tax on my transaction. - phocion - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:26 am: OW - I am well aware of Speaker Madigan’s longevity as de facto head of state. And Illinois has fared so well under his benevolent stewardship. In my post, however, I was referring to the continued boasts of “supermajorities” under the current map that was drawn by the Democrats. Whether Madigan would be Speaker following an election using a map that was drawn by a non-partisan panel is purely speculative. - forwhatitsworth - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:26 am: === “They’ve liked having monopoly control of the narrative. Now they’ve got a competitor and I think it’s going to be good for the people of Illinois,” he said.=== Which people are Tillman talking about? - nona - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:29 am: Muscular So we agree that Rauner got what he wanted when the tax rate dropped. Now it is his responsibility to propose a balanced budget which he has not yet done. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:29 am: ===OW - I am well aware of Speaker Madigan’s longevity as de facto head of state.=== (Sigh) another victim heard from… ===I was referring to the continued boasts of “supermajorities” under the current map that was drawn by the Democrats=== MJM had the gavel with a GOP Map. Four times over. Your point has no point. - Juvenal - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:31 am: If Rauner wanted to send a message that he was willing to work things out or go to the mat, he could have just picked up the phone. Rauner isn’t trying to send a message to Madigan and Democrats. He is trying to send a message to voters. The message unfortunately is “I’m the Hog with the Big ones.” And the more he acts like Boss Hogg, the more Madigan and Cullerton look like Bo and Luke Duke. You know: they’ve been in trouble with the law since the day they was born, but they’re really just a couple of good old boys. Does that make Rich Uncle Jesse? I dunno. But read Matt Deitrich’s take on it over at Reboot Illinois, and its clear that there is a lot less enthusiasm for Rauner’s approach than he would like. - Mama - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:33 am: - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:11 am: You should add teachers to your list. Parents get livid when school doesn’t open. - Arsenal - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:33 am: == I will say though that Bruce Rauner is a tax payer, one of the state’s largest, and not a tax consumer.== Then you will be wrong. He absolutely drives on paved roads, enjoys police and fire protection, benefits from public schools, etc., etc., etc. Everyone is a tax consumer. ==He did not request a tax cut. Democrats had a temporary tax increase that he asked to let expire so he could develop a budget with reduced spending and appropriate revenues.== And then admitted that it couldn’t be done and said he’d hike taxes, but only after Democrats slit their own throats. BTW, “He didn’t ask for a tax cut, he just asked that higher taxes not be extended” is a distinction without a difference. - Michael Westen - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:35 am: “I will say though that Bruce Rauner is a tax payer, one of the state’s largest, and not a tax consumer.”=== Please. How many tens of millions (or hundreds) of taxpayer dollars did Rauner and his company make from the pension funds? Strictly speaking, Rauner has probably made exponentially more from taxpayer money than the law firms of Madigan and Cullerton combined. This is yet another straw man argument set up by Rauner and his drones. - Arsenal - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:35 am: ==Whether Madigan would be Speaker following an election using a map that was drawn by a non-partisan panel is purely speculative.== Then whether Republicans could win such an election is speculative, too, and all this talk of the “illegitimacy” of the Dems’ win is misplaced. - Juice - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:35 am: OW, you forgot to add to the list the millions of dollars the Governor was paid to invest money on behalf of the pension systems. Or the nursing homes he owned that received funding from Medicare and Medicaid. That was consuming tax dollars. Or how about that Charter school with his name plastered on it, I’m pretty sure they are receiving taxpayer dollars. Or that time he tried to claim three homestead exemption. Pretty sure he was “consuming” tax dollars then? - Anonymous - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:37 am: I like Googner: “Republicans won’t even vote for Rauner’s agenda. Rauner suggests it and it doesn’t have their votes…It is tough to negotiate with people who don’t vote for what they say they want.“ - VanillaMan - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:38 am: Look at the ad. It is pitiful. He is giving us excuses for not accomplishing anything. He doesn’t have to do this. He doesn’t have to wreck our state to prove a point. He could have just governed. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:39 am: i.e. Gooner - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:39 am: I want to formally apologize to - mama -, - Juice -, et al., for forgetting the oh so many ways Rauner is a tax consumer. I was blinded by how Rauner’s lack of tax consumption that I just plain missed these layup examples. Maybe, just maybe, Rauner consumes taxes. My bad. Thanks to all for the help! - Mama - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:41 am: The voters did not elect Rauner to do what he has been doing since elected. When Rauner was asked about his agenda for IL, he said, “people won’t like it.” He was right, we don’t like it! He never gave the voters a list of his “Turnaround agenda”. His Turnaround agenda is not why he was elected. - phocion - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:42 am: OW- I have attempted to be civil. Denigrating someone who disagrees with you or has a different point of view is rude and reflects poorly upon you and your arguments. You may choose to cherry pick what I have stated, but such dishonest debate is beneath me, and I will not engage. But I will resort to your tactics if that is the only language you seem to understand: Your tiresome and incessant Rauner bashing, defense of Speaker Madigan and the status quo, all the while claiming to be a Republican are laughable and pathetic. Good day, sir. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:44 am: - phocion -, you can refute and stay engaged. Your choice. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:51 am: phocion: Please come back! You’re a great sidekick straight man for OW. - Joe M - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:52 am: ==With lower taxes, living is more affordable and people will stay in Illinois rather than move away.== If anyone thinks that Rauner will get through this with lower taxes, they are going to be in for a big suprise. As mentioned, even his draconian budget is at least $3 billion short. In the end, he will be signing off on bill for increased taxes. - Mama - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:55 am: Rauner was elected for one reason - to fix IL’s budget problem. Nothing on his “turnaround” list will fix the budget hole. The Tea Party’s List is being used to hold the Dems hostage. - Wordslinger - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:56 am: The GOP spin doctors say this ad is “benign,” but “the tenor could change” as time continues. First, like Walk, I’m fascinated by the concept of a “benign” negative political ad with no call to action. That’s groundbreaking stuff. So too, though, is the idea of ratcheting up “the tenor” of the spots as time goes on. Is that how negative political advertising works? You start slowly with weak sauce and then eventually bring out the big guns? And the consumers of the ads are supposed to follow and memory-bank this progression til its crescendo and then act? That’s how advertising works? If that’s the plan, somebody sold the governor’s peeps a bill of goods and is in for a dream score. - Jack Stephens - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:57 am: I’d really like to refute the idea that people choose to live based solely on the taxes they pay. There many reasons people choose where they live….going to college, if your in the armed forces, perhaps you move to take care of a sick relative, the climate, accessibility to,fresh water. But if you think taxes are the sole reason please come join us in the real world. Thank you. - The Way I See It - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:59 am: I guess I agree with the guy from IPI that it’s good when people hear multiple points of view. Probably first time I have ever said that. Problem with what is being done is that people are being given less than complete information about what the facts and alternatives are … and that’s not good at all. Cutting “waste” sounds great until you discover what that means in practice. - Jack Stephens - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:59 am: * where they live….. - A guy - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:59 am: == Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 10:44 am: - phocion -, you can refute and stay engaged. Your choice.=== Willy, having other points of view is very good for business around here. Be nicer. Not everyone adjusts to you as gracefully as me-lol. - Skeptic - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 11:02 am: “He did not request a tax cut.” Ah…good old Raunerlogic 101: Where keeping the tax rate the same was an “increase.” If it walks like a tax cut and quacks like a tax cut, it is a tax cut. - Cuddly - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 11:04 am: “Nice” + “A guy” = Nice? Hmmmm… - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 11:04 am: - A Guy -, Well I hope your adjusting was comfortable… You ever straighten out if your daughter the teacher was in your household? - vole - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 11:04 am: I’d sure like to see some structuring. Like structuring a series of meetings and negotiations between Rauner and the dems to finally do some real work on the budget. And some structuring of Rauner’s work schedule to include such instead of him hop scotching around the state to propagandize to folks who already agree with him. More fun than work I guess. About time Rauner showed us the beef. - walker - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 11:09 am: ==Whether Madigan would be Speaker following an election using a map that was drawn by a non-partisan panel is purely speculative.== Not to those who have studied it, and the geographic distribution of party loyalties. A “neutral” map, if such is possible, might switch 3 or 4 House seats. It might reduce the majority to below supermajority — but it wouldn’t impact who would be the Speaker. To win against Madigan, you need to focus more on other factors. The “unfair map” is a comforting distraction for those who would be victims, at this point. If the party numbers were much closer in the legislature, it would not be. BTW, I support mapping reform, simply to remove that distraction. - Michael Westen - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 11:10 am: -phocion- “Denigrating someone who disagrees with you or has a different point of view is rude and reflects poorly upon you and your arguments.” Isn’t phocion the guy defending the Rauner ads which denigrate “someone who disagrees” with Rauner? Apparently denigrating only “reflects poorly” on anyone who disagrees with him/her. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 11:12 am: ===A “neutral” map, if such is possible, might switch 3 or 4 House seats=== Or it could go the other way. Remember how Madigan dealt with a GOP map in the 90s? BTW, I fully agree we need remap reform. Fully. Always have. - phocion - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 11:14 am: Walker, please provide a source/cite to back up your claim that a neutral map would have the impact you state in your post. - Obamas Puppy - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 11:19 am: Ah so Mr. Tillman money is ok in politics? Is that only money from Billionaires that is ok, or just the money from middle class working families that is “corrupt”? Careful tripping on the hypocrisy wire. - burbanite - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 11:23 am: If Rauner really wants to get his message across he should do it the old fashioned frugal way, go on tv and do an interview. But he doesn’t want to do that, he doesn’t want to answer questions or give specifics. Other than the turnaround agenda, which has nothing to do with the budget, what is the plan? what does he want? where are the answers he said he would give after the election on how to fix the budget? No where, its the other guy… - Anonymous - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 12:22 pm: Instead of everyone pointing fingers and trash talking. They need to come up with a plan that has a bit of give and take. With all their clout, they need to get off those high horses and work together before there is nothing left to Illinois and would be considered all of their faults. Stop whining like babies. If we stop giving out freebies such as pens, rulers, etc. Cut back on travel expenses and bring some of that work in house it saves money. Also all the ones retiring look over the specs of there position if any possibility down grade the titles before posting the position. All of these items save money not only for the people but the government a well. The state is an institution not a private business. Everything needs to be looked at in a certain way. If a hospital is falling apart don’t ignore come up with a solution, just like these prisons. - Leo the Lion - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 12:31 pm: Good posting, Rich. Too many juvenile comments. - phocion - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 12:52 pm: Michael Westen. You say ==Isn’t phocion the guy defending the Rauner ads which denigrate “someone who disagrees” with Rauner?== Actually, I have not opined one way or another regarding the Rauner ads. I don’t know that an ad suggesting that a long-time powerful politician is bad for Illinois is denigrating that politician. Nor would I say that Madigan’s attack ads against Republicans earlier in the session that criticized their votes denigrated those targeted elected officials. I’m not defending or advocating on behalf of either of these ads. I was merely noting that a prolific commenter on this board does sometimes denigrate others here with whom he disagrees. I sometimes do fall into that trap because it is easy. It is my hope that his and the discourse of others here rises above that level. Not because it is easy, as JFK said, but because it is hard. - Michael Westen - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 1:14 pm: Phocion all I can say is wow! You may be the only person in Illinois that doesn’t believe that Rauner is “denigrating” Madigan, or is at least trying to. Rauner certainly isn’t complimenting the Speaker. As far as your inability to grasp that an “independent” map would likely have little impact on the Speakership is mind-boggling. The Speaker and his team have been running circles around Republicans for decades, no matter who draws the map. It brings to mind what the late Bum Phillips said about Hall of Fame coach Don Shula, “He can take his’n and beat your’n and take your’n and beat his’n.” An “independent” map is another in a long-line of phony reform proposals that will not produce the pie in the sky results promised-anyone remember the “Cutback Amendment?” - phocion - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 1:21 pm: Michael Westen, If an independent map wouldn’t change the outcome, why do the Speaker and Senate President refuse to allow it to come to a vote? - Michael Westen - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 1:41 pm: phocion, I don’t speak for Speaker Madigan or President Cullerton. But who would be Speaker under an independent map really isn’t complicated. It has been pointed out to you several times already. When the map was drawn by the Speaker’s opponents, he was still the Speaker four out of five times. So, if the Speaker and his team can win handily with a map drawn by opponents, why would you think they couldn’t win with an “independent” map? - phocion - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 2:11 pm: All good Michael Westen. I know you don’t speak for Madigan and Cullerton. But it appears beyond obvious their refusal to allow a vote on moving to independent maps says that they don’t share your confidence of maintaining their supermajority status under that scenario. - A guy - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 2:31 pm: MW, don’t kid yourself. An independent map would make a difference. Period. - Wordslinger - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 2:41 pm: Guy, MW pointed out that a GOP map didn’t make a difference in the House. Unlike you, he has facts to support his contention. - Michael Westen - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 2:59 pm: phocion, I don’t think anyone has argued that MJM would keep his supermajority, so that is another strawman argument. As Rich and others have said, it could likely result in a swing of 3-4 seats. This would not change the Speakership. Madigan and his team have consistently, year after year, cycle after cycle, no matter who draws the map, been infinitely better at recruiting, organizing, campaigning, strategizing, etc. (in other words, everything a campaign entails). History, and common sense suggest these advantages would not end with an “independent” map. - Precinct Captain - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 2:59 pm: ==- LizPhairTax - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:58 am:== I hope the “independent” Turnaround Illinois committee didn’t coordinate to get any old campaign footage. - A guy - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 3:06 pm: === Wordslinger - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 2:41 pm: Guy, MW pointed out that a GOP map didn’t make a difference in the House. Unlike you, he has facts to support his contention.=== And just like you, he can predict the future despite population changes and shifts. You two should get together and spend an afternoon telling each other how cool you are. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 4:50 pm: A guy I just call Shirley MacLaine. She gives me the scoop. - Michael Westen - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 5:01 pm: A Guy Population changes and shifts in Illinois in recent years has helped Democrats-African-American voters (90%+Democratic) moving from city to suburbs, Hispanics (70%+Democratic) moving virtually everywhere suburban. Thanks for helping make our argument for us. And, in politics, past performance is often indicative of future performance. - Chicago 20 - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 5:33 pm: Specifically what are Rauner’s “job creating reforms” that are in the ad? Study after study show “right to work” laws do not increase employment, so that can’t be it. University study after study show eliminating prevailing wage laws do not reduce the costs of projects, but they do reduce the income of the workers, which cuts the State’s tax revenue and kills economic growth, so that can’t be it. Eliminating workers comp will only drive up employers costs when the courts will decide every case, so that can’t be it. These are nonsensical ALEC ideals that are only for extending the budget crisis to a point when the public gets so fed up and accepts what ever Rauner shoves down our throats. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 5:45 pm: To the Map discussion; Right now, today, given what we know about the HDem Crew, abd their own history in running against Maps; Which Caucus would fare better with an “even” Map. Consider; Recruitment Understanding demographics Ground Game Mail Program Organization Depth of Leadership Experience Intangibles Make that checklist, then you have your answers of the Parties squaring off for the Chambers. The rest is just noise. There are no “fair” maps to judge, there are no examples of overall or micro district(s) The criteria above, and history, that’s all we have. - Kelly Speaks - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 5:55 pm: ==- phocion - Michael Westen, If an independent map wouldn’t change the outcome, why do the Speaker and Senate President refuse to allow it to come to a vote?== phocion, it is your lucky day.. First of all the legislators cannot redistrict our state. It is in our state constitution that AFTER the 10 federal census, states then map out legislative districts based on the federal census and the districts must be equally represented based on racial stats. What this means is Rauner will NEVER see a redistricted map in his governorship because the next census isn’t until 2020. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 5:57 pm: ===What this means is Rauner will NEVER see a redistricted map in his governorship because the next census isn’t until 2020. === And if he’s reelected in 2018??? Don’t be a moron. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 5:58 pm: - Kelly Sparks -, The governor elected in 2018… That governor… will sign the Map. If Rauner wins re-election, Rauner will, personally, be a huge player in the Map. - Kelly Speaks - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 5:58 pm: As for the television ads, they don’t explain anything, they just passive aggressively try to manipulate the population into believing that Madigan is holding everything up. Rauner’s agenda has absolutely nothing to do with the budget. He is just holding the budget as hostage, thus the Ted Cruz Jr move.. or Rand Paul filibuster.. Stunts, just stunts. Besides most people aren’t even going to see the ads because they are busy working. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 6:02 pm: ===Besides most people aren’t even going to see the ads because they are busy working.=== A million dollar Ad buy for a week, in the summer, sure buys a lot of air time. It will saturate enough, people will see it on accident. 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