The mother of all poison pills
Thursday, Jul 9, 2015 - Posted by Rich Miller
* From Gov. Bruce Rauner’s pension reform bill…
Prohibited subjects of bargaining.
(a) A public employer and a labor organization may not bargain over, and no collective bargaining agreement entered into, renewed, or extended on or after the effective date of
this amendatory Act of the 99th General Assembly may include,
provisions related to the following prohibited subjects of collective bargaining:
(1) Employee pensions, including the impact or
implementation of changes to employee pensions, including
the Employee Consideration Pension Transition Program as
set forth in Section 30 of the Personnel Code.
(2) Wages, including any form of compensation including salaries, overtime compensation, vacations,
holidays, and any fringe benefits, including the impact or
implementation of changes to the same; except nothing in
this Section 7.6 will prohibit the employer from electing
to bargain collectively over employer-provided health insurance.
(3) Hours of work, including work schedules, shift
schedules, overtime hours, compensatory time, and lunch periods, including the impact or implementation of changes
to the same.
(4) Matters of employee tenure, including the impact of
employee tenure or time in service on the employer’s
exercise of authority including, but not limited to, any
consideration the employer must give to the tenure of
employees adversely affected by the employer’s exercise of management’s right to conduct a layoff.
Sheesh.
- Small Town Girl - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:40 am:
What is left?
- historic66 - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:42 am:
One word: delusional.
- Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:43 am:
Can we keep our water fountains?
- Concerned - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:43 am:
In other words, “employees shall have no rights.” There, I save lots of language.
- PublicServant - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:43 am:
And yet he calls it a pension bill…and while the true pension parts of the bill are unconstitutional, the non-pension, union-gutting parts, make the bill a non-starter.
- Here We Go Again - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:44 am:
Two words come to mind…..Obsession…..and DOA
This bill is a non-starter
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:44 am:
Thank goodness Rauner only dislikes Union Bosses and not Unions, otherwise this could be even worse…
- 47th Ward - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:45 am:
He said this was the same language Cullerton, Preckwinkle and Emanuel agreed to, so I assume he hoped no one would actually read it before voting for it.
- Homer J. Quinn - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:45 am:
…and you will work without pay until you agree to these terms.
- Piasa - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:46 am:
Love of God, why does the man keep bashing his head against that brick wall? Why? We’ve come up with so many theories on this blog. With each new theory, I think “oh that makes sense, that explains it”. Then something like this comes out and I again go “what”? It’s starting to feel like that scene from Monty Pythons Holy Grail “She’s a witch! Burn her!” Then a new theory comes along to cast doubt.
- does he get it at all - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:46 am:
He does not understand collective bargaining. I would love to see AFSCME’S snarky counterproposal…
- Nickname #2 - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:47 am:
Notice the qualifier, ” except nothing in this Section 7.6 will prohibit the employer from electing to bargain collectively over employer-provided health insurance.”
The employer can elect to bargain, but the union would have no such election or right.
- Roamin' Numeral - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:48 am:
He left out:
(5) Matters of corporal punishment, or an employer’s right to physically abuse an employee for sub-par work performance, or because said employer just feels like it.
- Secret Square - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:48 am:
“What is left”?
Maybe (just maybe) health insurance:
“except, nothing in this Section 7.6 will prohibit the employer from electing to bargain collectively over employer-provided health insurance.”
- VanillaMan - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:48 am:
What Rauner has done here is put into writing why the GA has to pass SB 1229 over his objections. This governor is not negotiating. He seems to have no experience in compromising. Union contract talks are failing because of this administration’s failure to understand, respect or learn what is a normal, traditional and vital part of governing.
It seems that Rauner’s staff is filled with people who don’t know what unions do. Perhaps I can suggest that when their helicopter parents contact them throughout the day to see what they are wearing, eating, thinking, or doing - that Rauner’s staffers ask their mommies and daddies how unions work.
Dysfunction is not an option. This kind of proposal isn’t a proposal. What the Governor has clearly done is make clear to everyone, that he cannot be a serious leader.
Rauner has just made a perfect case for SB 1229. Regardless of party, he has demonstrated that he just can’t do the job.
Embarrassing
- Anon221 - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:48 am:
This is what the superstars have been crafting?!?!
- CharlieKratos - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:49 am:
I’d have a lot more words than just “delusional”, but Rich’s pesky filter won’t let any of them through.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:49 am:
Let me be very clear;
If you are in ANY Union, any… and it comes time to choose… to vote… to make a decision on your representation in the General Assembly come March 2016, and then November 2016… and you believe that a candidate “supported” by Bruce Rauner won’t be “green” on language like this come 2017, you deserve no sympathy.
Bruce Rauner is laying his cards on the table. There should be no… no misunderstanding…
Rauner wants to destroy collective bargaining. There is zero ambiguity.
Vote accordingly.
- Wondering - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:51 am:
I’m good with this.
- Beatgrunt - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:51 am:
There is no way this bill would pass and based on recent caselaw it is clearly unconstitutional. Rauner is just wasting everyone’s time with this folly. He needs to start acting like a real govenor.
- Slippin' Jimmy - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:52 am:
Furthermore, and in Conclusion-”The Beatings will continue until Morale Greatly Improves”…That is all!
- Joe M - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:52 am:
Walker did these things in Wisconsin (with Republican majorities). I guess Rauner doesn’t want to be out-Walkered.
- walker - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:53 am:
So this isn’t just a pension bill, it’s also a crush the unions bill. Remember there’s also the muni bankruptcy piece hidden in there as well, in case none of it works.
Not only has Rauner Team insisted on some Turnaround items before agreeing to a budget, but they stick the items in other bills. You want pension “reform” you got to take the Turnaround items as well.
- thunderspirit - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:53 am:
Reminds me of the Bruce Willis scene from Fifth Element, where he shoots everyone and asks, “Anyone else wanna ‘negotiate’?”
- Gargamel - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:53 am:
Piasa: There is but one single theory that holds consistent weight: Complete lack of experience. He has no idea how any of this words and is utterly surprised when it fails - over and over.
- Suburban Dad - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:53 am:
Hey, you know, the Governor has a mandate from 50.27% of the voters, so you had to figure this sort of sweeping change was going to be advanced.
- Arsenal - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:54 am:
I’m not sure I even understand *why* he’s doing this. Word’s “trying to impress the Kochs” theory makes the most sense, but even there, if they ain’t impressed by now, knocking your approval rating down to the low 30s ain’t gonna do it.
- Tournaround Agenda - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:54 am:
* The above does not apply to superstars.
- VanillaMan - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:55 am:
Rauner’s plan isn’t a “turnaround” - it is a “burn-it-down”.
- Scholar athlete - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:57 am:
Rauner is not a serious person. End of discussion. A plutocrat in the governor’s office is heard to mutter, “Let them eat cake.”
- Obamas Puppy - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:57 am:
So you can be paid but don’t get sick, retire, be unfairly terminated, or go on vacation. Just be thankful you have a job and do expect to have any say in your own future - oh unless you can cut a deal with the Governor.
- Luggie - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:00 am:
These proposed prohibited subjects of bargaining are presented with warmest regards.
- AC - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:01 am:
It’s as if Rauner clearly doesn’t understand how to properly craft a trojan horse. Hiding a poison pill in a pension diminishing bill is like placing the soldiers inside, and outside the trojan horse at the gates. It entirely defies logic and common sense.
- ILPundit - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:01 am:
My god, I hope Madigan and Cullerton put this on the board.
- Homer J. Quinn - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:01 am:
hypothetically, if he got everything on his turnaround agenda, what would he do for the rest of his term? scott walker is trying to eliminate weekends with an amendment that allows workers to “voluntarily” work seven days a week. how can we trust that isn’t on rauner’s agenda for 2016 or 2017?
- Norseman - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:01 am:
You missed the clause that allows the union to negotiate on when the office Christmas party is held and on how many casual Fridays they can have.
- the old man - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:01 am:
Dear Guv: I missed the part where you made child labor legal again and the provision calling for a mandatory 16 hour work day.
- Almost the Weekend - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:02 am:
It’s apparent everyone in Rauner’s circle is too afraid to tell him no. Seems to be a common theme amongst government staff in the past four administrations.
- DoubleD - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:02 am:
Did I miss something?…when did Potter, a warped, frustrated old-man become our Gov? Maybe now the vast majority of us who do most of the working, living, and dying in Illinois will vote out this radical agenda and ANYONE who takes his money…you know the money made off of an honest person’s back.
Hey Brucie…while your fightin for us can we a least be allowed to suffer your reign in 3 decent rooms and a clean bath?
- Langhorne - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:02 am:
In an attempt at snark, i was going to say the only thing left was bargaining over parking, but fringe benefits are also excluded.
- Stones - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:03 am:
Sure, that has a GREAT chance of passage.
- Tournaround Agenda - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:03 am:
His idea of compromise seems to be demanding the same thing over and over until Democrats capitulate entirely.
- Bemused - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:04 am:
Perfect example of usefulness of the term “Bargain in good faith”.
- Anon - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:04 am:
As long as he is pleasing the one percent he’ll be happy. The rest of us can eat cake!
I think the goal is to climb the Forbe’s list.
- Cassandra - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:05 am:
This seems entirely predictable to me. It is unlikely to fly here in blue Illinois right now, but long term, here and across the country, not sure how these types of initiatives are going. Given conditions in the private sector workforce in the US, including the growing freeelance cohort, and the shrinking of the labor union sector, there may not be massive public support for pushback. The feds seem to be pushing minimum wage, sick pay, child care and access to defined comp, but not necessarily the kinds of protections offered by traditional union membership.
- walker - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:05 am:
VMan: Great fan of your comments, and read them carefully. You’ve got talent beyond the words. Just noticed though, that sometimes you argue that “they” are just too old to understand, and sometimes just too young.
- see the forest - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:05 am:
So why even organize? Rauner’s visceral hatred of working people grows more obvious with each passing day.
- Educated in the Suburbs - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:06 am:
Intelligent observers of CapFax, at what point does the legislature start passing some kind of veto-proof budget or related measures? I’m becoming curious if that will be a tool they use.
- Elo Kiddies - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:07 am:
Could the legislature run this as a standalone bill? Maybe the Republicans would call it a sham and vote present, but if it’s so central to the governor’s core beliefs, maybe it needs an up or down vote in order for the budget debate to proceed.
- Facts are Stubborn Things - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:07 am:
Wow! Plays perfectly into MJM narrative of Rauner must operate in moderation and the not the extreme. Solutions are and will be found in moderation and by reasonable people.
- Lefty Lefty - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:07 am:
Also don’t forget (as our leaders often do) about the single subject rule in our constitution. Municipal bankruptcy, pensions, and collective bargaining don’t seem to me to be related. I don’t think the courts would allow this to stand as law.
- x ace - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:10 am:
Response to German Demand for Surrender
To The German Commander:
NUTS !
The American Commander.
- Former Federal Prosecutor - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:11 am:
State employees already have some of the most lucrative benefit packages imaginable. Where in the private sector do entry level employees get 10 vacation days, 3 personal days, accumulate a sick day per month, get 15 paid holidays off, have pensions with a 3% COLA, consider “full-time” work 37.5 hours, and on and on and on? God forbid somebody say enough is enough and freeze benefits right where they are. Apparently that’s akin to serving dog food in the lunch room, chaining the doors shut, and resurrecting child labor. Hysterical, in both senses of that word.
- The Colossus of Roads - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:12 am:
Amazing. Where did he get this language, China? We waited six months for this. It will never see the light of day.
- Hit or Miss - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:12 am:
I wonder how many Republican members of the GA will vote for this proposal? How much will passage of these policies into law help Republican candidates get elected, or re-elected, during the next election?
- Chicago Hack - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:14 am:
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
- Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:14 am:
When one challenges another, one should focus on the other and stop entertaining the crowd after entering the ring:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zLRvUhyh2ok&feature=youtu.be
- Joe M - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:16 am:
I’m guessing a few months ago, he would have issued this as an executive order. But finally someone must have told him he has to put his ideas in a bill form where everyone can read it. I’m not sure though that he yet realizes that it would have to have hearings that his staff would have to attend - and then be passed by both chambers of the General Assembly. And then even in the unlikely event that happened, it would have to hold up in court. At the rate he is going, I’m not sure he will ever learn all of that.
- RetiredStateEmployee - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:19 am:
Robber Barron
“By the late 1800s, the term was typically applied to businessmen who used what were considered to be exploitative practices to amass their wealth. These practices included exerting control over national resources, accruing high levels of government influence, paying extremely low wages, squashing competition by acquiring competitors in order to create monopolies and eventually raise prices, and schemes to sell stock at inflated prices to unsuspecting investors in a manner which would eventually destroy the company for which the stock was issued and impoverish investors.” Wikipedia
If we are not careful, we are about to repeat history. This cancer on our government must be expelled.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:19 am:
===…at what point does the legislature start passing some kind of veto-proof budget or related measures? I’m becoming curious if that will be a tool they use.===
That won’t happen. Rauner needs to own it. No bailing out Rauner. The Governor’s presser yesterday was more about Rauner and his Crew realizing they own the Veto, the non paying of state workers, all of it. Blaming MJM, that’s all they have.
No way does the GA bail out Rauner just to do it. No way.
- Anon - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:20 am:
Ah. So he lied about what’s in his bill. That’s pretty much his M.O., “I want a property tax freeze — but it also needs to do something that has nothing to do with property tax.”
“I won’t sign an unbalanced budget — but I won’t introduce a balanced one.”
Great guy. I’m guessing the world of hedge fund management didn’t prepare him for co-equal branches of government, and people that actually read, question, and reject ridiculousness.
- Facts are Stubborn Things - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:20 am:
A good name for Rauner’s pension proposal would be the “diminishment and impairment act”.
- Facts are Stubborn Things - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:25 am:
@- Former Federal Prosecutor - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:11 am:
Pensions are off limits…it is called the rule of law as recently confirmed by the ISC. On other benefits, that is called contract negotiations and it is well underway. It will be through this contract negotiations that Rauner has his best opportunity to make an impact, but must resist over playing his hand. I think the recent teamster agreement is a good template.
- Centennial - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:25 am:
Not sure what everyone is worked up about. He is who we thought he was.
Let him have the Repub leaders file and put that one up for a vote. Please. I would love to see the roll call. Nice clean line in the sand: bus v. them.
- @MisterJayEm - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:26 am:
– MrJM
- Centennial - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:26 am:
Ugh. Meant us not bus…
- Facts are Stubborn Things - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:29 am:
State employees not getting paid supports MJM’s hand. The more pain there is the harder it will be for Rauner to hold to his “turn around agenda” demand before there is a budget. He will have to accept large cuts or agree to revenue without reforms.
- Arsenal - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:29 am:
==Where in the private sector do entry level employees get 10 vacation days, 3 personal days, accumulate a sick day per month, get 15 paid holidays off, have pensions with a 3% COLA, consider “full-time” work 37.5 hours, and on and on and on?==
I’m old enough to remember when a maxim of Republican/Conservative politicians was “You don’t make the poor rich by making the rich poor.”
==God forbid somebody say enough is enough and freeze benefits right where they are.==
That’s not what this proposal does, this proposal says unions can’t even bargain about their benefits. If you think no future Administration would take advantage of this to ROLL BACK benefits, I’ve got a lovely bridge to sell you.
- Wordslinger - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:33 am:
I guess this explains why he didnt have time to AV those approp bills to ensure state employees got paid.
- VanillaMan - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:35 am:
Just noticed though, that sometimes you argue that “they” are just too old to understand, and sometimes just too young.
Governor’s staffs are filled with youngsters. The GA is filled with oldsters. When considering the many problems we are witnessing in the Mansion, youth and this helicoptered generation are at work. When considering the many problems we are witnessing in the Capitol, oldsters from the Boomer generation are at work.
We just might be seeing the basic problem of an age gap between the GA and the Mansion, as well as a party gap.
We have a gubernatorial staff more comfortable with social media than human interaction under the Dome. The Governor’s staff is disrespectful of governmental procedures. They continually fail to win votes for their ideas. When they are sidelined by GA politics, the Governor’s staff gets petty, amateur, unprofessional and nasty to men and women who are political veterans and have earned their places in government. Rauner’s kiddo’s don’t appreciate these people, these traditions or these institutions.
The Governor’s staffers aren’t conservatives - they are post-graduates with career paths, and Rauner is the horse they rode into their careers upon. They see a White House office cubicle in their future with Rauner. They don’t care what he is espousing beyond making him a political winner, and winning a new resume paragraph in return.
Perhaps this is one of the many reasons we are seeing a complete meltdown between the Dome and the Mansion. Millennial generation meets Boomers.
- Luggie - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:36 am:
The governor’s ill advised attempt at a shock and awe campaign is showing no signs of letting up.
- TwoFeetThick - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:37 am:
@FFP
You forgot to mention the lower than private sector pay that non-superstar state employees typically earn. All those benefits you so breathlessly rattled off are intended to help balance that lower pay out and allow the state to have a chance at attracting competent people to join, and stay with, its workforce.
Do you seriously think people with Master’s and Doctorate degrees, not to mention JDs, are going to work for minimum wage and no benefits? You get what you pay for. Sheesh.
- $10 Lid - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:37 am:
What cracker is this same that deafe our eares with this abundance of superfluous breath? - Bill
- Tha missin g - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:38 am:
Hey Former Fed Pro
The only people that have better bennifits than state workers are FEDERAL workers.
Pot meet kettle.
- Triple fat - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:40 am:
Mason Born and Formerly Known as - See what I mean about SB 1 could’ve been worse… All State Employees should quit backstabbing Speaker Madigan and support him during this tumultuous time. Ever heard the expression, “The enemy of my enemy is my friend? Wise up fellow workers the Speaker is our friend.
- A CapFax Reader - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:42 am:
Not a “lack of experience,” not that staffers don’t speak up to the Gov - this is the Koch agenda, like water on a stone since the 70’s corporate approach. Recall in order to be a true ALEC-ite office-holder, you pledge your allegiance in writing - no tax hikes, etc. AND, This Is What These Individuals BELIEVE. Trying to make sense of these things is futile - I did say this is what they believe, right? Think of it as the affirmation that’s taped to the bathroom mirror each morning - this is what we believe…….period. No need to fry the brain trying to find another reason. BELIEVE.
- Juvenal - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:42 am:
Move that straight to the floor for committee of the whole and let’s have a roll call.
- TwoFeetThick - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:45 am:
=== the Speaker is our friend ===
I’ve never been a huge fan of the Speaker. But now, as during the Blago days, I thank God every day that he’s there.
- A Jack - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:48 am:
This bill is pretty clear evidence that the governor is not negotiating in good faith, but rather delaying negotiations until he can gut bargaining rights.
And his “stabilize pay for five years” in the bill is obviously a hollow promise in light of the fact that he can’t even deliver on the current fiscal year
- AnonymousOne - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:48 am:
I’m embarrassed that one in such a prominent spot of “leadership” shows so little respect for those who make our economy run (by actually working and spending and paying those taxes) and actual hatred. It speaks to some kind of sickness.
- A CapFax Reader - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:52 am:
What Triple Fat said to state employees. Before it’s too late. Wise up - in your own interest. This is what you got, those who voted for Rauner. More interested in stamping your feet and pouting at the ballot box re Quinn. How’s that working for you now???? I’ve been saying - ya ain’t seen nothin’ yet, and here is part of it. Yes, only part of it. And those of you counting on plum jobs because you have some Sangamon Co Repub tie from 15 years ago - that’s ancient history. You’re just a widget in the boat with all the rest of the state employees, trades people in the path of the Turnaround. Count the ticks of the clock until the next gubernatorial term begins..tick tock. Meanwhile, work toward replacing Rauner at the ballot box while the clock ticks.
- Tommydanger - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:52 am:
What’s missing?
I guess you can still bargain over where the vending machines will be located(but not the price of the items inside).
- AnonymousOne - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:52 am:
FFP–Don’t know who you know but I know quite a few people working in the private sector who get perks public employees can only dream of and will never ever get. And I know lots of these people. Guess it’s who you hang out with, eh?
- anon - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:54 am:
Extreme to say the least.
I don’t have a problem with some reasonable changes (number of holidays, bumping to 40 hours/week, etc..). But, not to the extreme that he is pushing for. And to try and take the ability to negotiate those items completely, like others have said, what’s left??
One thing I’m not quite sure I understand. Much of his tactics have been based on divide and conquer. These extreme positions/demands encourage solidarity like never before.
- Tommydanger - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:54 am:
Forget Salems.
You can take Bruce out of the boardrooms but, you can’t take the boardrooms out of Bruce.
- X-prof - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:56 am:
BVR: Bringin’ indentured servitude to a new millenium!
The presser and the 500 pages of pension reform are all about scoring points with low-information voters and wearing down the other side. No bill like this will ever reach the governor’s desk.
- Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:59 am:
My governor is redefining public servant
- Former Federal Prosecutor - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:01 am:
@Tha Missing G - “The only people that have better bennifits [sic] than state workers are FEDERAL workers.”
Surprisingly absent from those superior benefits is the privilege to bargain for benefits or pay. The vast majority of Federal employees enjoy no such right.
- noon time drink - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:03 am:
Does any one other than public union members care about the union? I sure don’t and I don’t know any one cares. Cut all their benefits for all I care. I work in the private sector and I don’t have:
1) Gold plated insurance
2) Lucrative pensions
3) the ability to file grievances
4) collective bargaining
Out here in the real world most of us are just trying to get by while the unions milked the public treasury. It’s gone on way too long and everyone who votes for Rauner knows it. That’s why no outside of the unions feels any sympathy for state workers or their union.
- Skeptic - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:04 am:
“Where in the private sector do entry level employees get 10 vacation days, 3 personal days, accumulate a sick day per month, get 15 paid holidays off, have pensions with a 3% COLA, consider “full-time” work 37.5 hours” Um…at all the private industry jobs I’ve ever had?
- X-prof - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:04 am:
Just received a robo call flaming the Dems in the GA and askin’ me to call and tell my rep to stop playing games and pass the gov’s agenda.
- Woodstock worker - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:06 am:
Ever since the “Turnaround agenda” fiasco (where most counties/ towns voted it down), the media and the Gov have avoided saying that he wants to weaken collective bargaining and implied that he dropped it from his priorities. This should make it clear - that is all he wants. Property tax relief doesn’t get snuck into every bill. Term limits doesn’t get snuck into every bill. Redistricting reform doesn’t get snuck into every bill. Workman’s comp reform doesn’t get snuck into every bill. Sigh….and so we wait.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:06 am:
===That’s why no outside of the unions feels any sympathy for state workers or their union.===
- noon time drink -,
If you “believe” that, why do ya think Rauner ran away from his Union bashing right after the Primary?
You think on that.
- noon time drink - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:06 am:
Rauners not being foiled, or being played, being amatuerish. He’s playing all of the democrats. You’d be foolish and remiss to so easily dismiss rauner. The winds of change in this state are not in the union’s favor. It’s happening all across the country.
- Allen D - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:07 am:
The words still come to mind Illinois State workers are the highest paid in the USA and the state is the poorest run establishment in the USA… this has to be turned around… I don’t mean that we need to be the least paid workers in the USA but I am willing to take a cut as I have said when he was running for office… there is nothing here that he didn’t say when he was running for the position before he was elected. It is time we thought more about others and the State than we do ourselves.
- Skeptic - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:08 am:
“get 15 paid holidays off,” Plus your inaccuracies hobble your argument.
- Norseman - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:08 am:
=== It speaks to some kind of sickness. ===
No, it’s called greed.
- Former Federal Prosecutor - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:08 am:
Skeptic @ 11:04am:
Right. Let’s get the laugh meter out on that one and see how high it goes.
- Juvenal - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:10 am:
Anonymous 10:59-
Henceforth you shall be known as “public indentured servants.”
- noon time drink - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:11 am:
oswego willy, Maybe whaetever echo chamber you live, the state unions are a huge priority, but in my circles, no one cares about unions, no one gives two pennies if they have collective bargaining or 3% COLA’s or lavish time off. The gravy train is over, and the only ones who haven’t realized it yet are the union. I”m not trying to bash unions, nothing I’ve said is insulting, but it’s just the way it is. The winds of change are here and they’re here to stay.
- Purple Bear - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:11 am:
FFP:
===State employees already have some of the most lucrative benefit packages imaginable. … et cetera===
First of all, my private-sector equivalents doing exactly the same job I do (and at roughly the same hours; I often work way more than 8 hours per day) earn 3x the pay.
Second, my sister-in-law got 3 months of paid maternity leave shortly after she joined her new private employer.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:12 am:
===there is nothing here that he didn’t say when he was running for the position before he was elected===
After the Primary, can you point to where this Union afevda was discussed? Thanks.
===Rauners not being foiled, or being played, being amatuerish. He’s playing all of the democrats. You’d be foolish and remiss to so easily dismiss rauner.===
Ok, make your case, how is Rauner succeeding in the shutdown Rauner created. Go ahead.
===The winds of change in this state are not in the union’s favor. It’s happening all across the country.===
Ok, then it should be easy to walk me through 71 and 36 votes in the General Assembly… winds of change and all…
- Rich Miller - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:12 am:
===I”m not trying to bash unions,===
lol
- Robert the 1st - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:14 am:
Skeptic
” “full-time” work 37.5 hours” Um…at all the private industry jobs I’ve ever had?”
be honest, where have you ever heard of anyone being paid overtime before 40 hours in either private or public work outside the state of IL?
- noon time drink - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:14 am:
“First of all, my private-sector equivalents doing exactly the same job I do (and at roughly the same hours; I often work way more than 8 hours per day) earn 3x the pay.
Second, my sister-in-law got 3 months of paid maternity leave shortly after she joined her new private employer. ”
That’s all anecdotal evidence and you can compare any two jobs and say that the private sector job is better. But few people actually believe that. The pension alone is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars in retirement, if not more.
What’s my 3% employer match worth? Hahaha
- Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:14 am:
not happening
- Juvenal - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:14 am:
Allen D:
Team Rauner surrendered that argument when they started hiring folks at $250,000 a year.
You can’t argue state employees are overpaid while handing out $250,000 paychecks for jobs that didnt even exist before you took office, nor demand pension reforms while sweetening the pension of your handpicked Education exec.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:15 am:
===The gravy train is over, and the only ones who haven’t realized it yet are the union. I”m not trying to bash unions, nothing I’ve said is insulting,===
LOL.
“Gravy Train”.
Do you even understand how words… work?
Again, Rauner ran away from Union bashing in the General Election. Why?
- Juice - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:15 am:
Also to Former Federal Prosecutor, entry level state employees no longer get a pension with a 3% COLA. That was done away with 5 years ago.
- Skeptic - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:16 am:
noon time drink: Well, back atcha. I hope you lose your job or get your pay slashed and have to pay twice for health insurance. Or have to work 70 or 80 hours a week. Or have to use your MBA to scrub toilets. Because no one really cares about you either. (snark)
I was being snarky, but that illustrates the problem. We all should care about each other. We’re in this together. As soon as we get away from the “Us” and “Them” we’ll be closer to a solution.
- Norseman - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:17 am:
=== My governor is redefining public servant ===
Yep, his definition is, with the exception of individuals hired by the governor, a person who works for government who has no rights, is given no respect and must receive salary and benefits worse than anything comparable to the private sector.
- Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:17 am:
I think of the Nicholson/Cruise scene, and I say, “IF the reforms you are demanding be passed are going to revitalize our economy, providing more taxpayers, and are going to save municipalities so much money you can take away part of their state aid and freeze their property taxes, then WHY would those now-thriving municipalities need to file bankruptcy?”
- noon time drink - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:17 am:
“Ok, make your case, how is Rauner succeeding in the shutdown Rauner created. Go ahead.’
The point that is missed is that everyone who elected Rauner expected this to happen. It’s no surprise. Few people outside of the IL gravy train or dole care if the government shuts down. And none of them are blaming Rauner.
- Skeptic - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:19 am:
Robert: Merit comp employees don’t get paid for overtime. And you’re making a false comparison saying “less than 40 hours” when you should be saying “less than a regular work week.”
- noon time drink - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:20 am:
” As soon as we get away from the “Us” and “Them” we’ll be closer to a solution. ”
Yes, but it is US vs Them. That’s exactly how the unions and state employees see it. It’s them vs the tax payer who actually foots the bill for this. And if you don’t think that Rauner’s election was a tax payer revolt, you’ve got a lot to learn about the disdain a lot of the tax payers feel for the state government.
- walker - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:21 am:
VMan: You might have something there with the “Boomers v. Helicoptered Youngsters” mentalities — fun to consider for a bit.
But not much more than with the “Liberal v. Conservative” or traditional “Democratic v. Republican” labels. None of these glosses seem to inform us very well about what actually happens in Illinois politics. That’s why out-of-staters, and political trainees from national PACs and “Institutes” don’t seem to get us very well.
- Skeptic - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:23 am:
noon time: You’re a troll who would be well served by reading the archives of this blog.
- Wordslinger - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:24 am:
NTD, I take you haven’t received “superstar” status yet?
- East Central Illinois - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:25 am:
@ Noon Time Drink
Are you serious? Do you not realize that teachers all across this state belong to unions? And you don’t think anyone cares about that?? Seriously, go have another drink and fall off the bar stool.
- Chicago Cynic - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:25 am:
My GOP friends who are not steeped in the ways of Springfield keep asking me why I think the governor runs a serious risk of blowing his advantage through overreach. We now have the perfect, easy to understand example. It’s one even the Trib should be able to get…if they wanted to.
- Omega Man - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:26 am:
Rauner only wants to “Destroy All Monsters” (MLM & Unions)
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:27 am:
===Yes, but it is US vs Them.===
Congratulations on your Troll staus. You earned it.
We will stay off your lawn, and stop feeding you.
- noon time drink - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:28 am:
“noon time: You’re a troll who would be well served by reading the archives of this blog. ”
I’m not a troll. the echo chamber in here is deafening.
I have an opposing point of view that just so happened to elect rauner.
If you don’t like opposing points of view, so be it. I just happen to find the current situation in springfield interesting. I dont’ work for the state, or even get involved in politics other than the eleections. I actually stopped voting when I lived in chicago because there wasn’t any real choice on the ballet, even in the primaries, there were no challengers on the ballots and most candidates ran unopposed.
and that’s the heart of the problem, is that springfield has been unopposed for so long, that even suggesting something different is called “trolling”.
Adios
- Triple fat - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:29 am:
Noon time drink - BooHOO!!! You don’t have gold plated insurance - neither do we. You don’t have a lucrative pension - I wouldn’t call what I will receive lucrative. The other Problems that you have… Do something about your situation… Pull yourself up by you own bootstraps and Join a Union… Instead of preoccupying yourself with all that we have EARNED do something that makes a difference in your life and quit trying to destroy what Unions have accomplished. Your coveting what we have is just unseemly
- noon time drink - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:31 am:
“Congratulations on your Troll staus. You earned it.”
Wow, suggesting an alternative point of view shared by a large percentage of the state makes me a troll? No wonder Illinois is the way it is when the discussion of politics results in personal attacks of ‘troll’ by suggesting that the level of support that unions think they have among the citizens is actually nowhere near what they believe it is.
I’m done here. GO ahead and live in your echochamber, but that’s not going to stop the winds of change.
- Person 8 - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:31 am:
Noon time, sounds like you need to unionize and get better benifits.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:31 am:
Do. Not. Feed. Trolls.
- Homer J. Quinn - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:32 am:
“Adios” — noon time drink
I think you mean:
“Best!
ck”
- Me too - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:33 am:
I wonder what NTD’s boss thinks about him drinking on his lunch hour. I know most government employees don’t get that kind of perk lol.
- Earnest - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:35 am:
“Friends, Illinoisans and Countrymen: I am not here to bash Unions. I am here to praise them.”
- cez - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:35 am:
Noon time drink : Please put down the martini.If there is a stop to state services ,that effects everyone..from commuters on state highways to elder spouses trying to get home health care for their Ill spouses,..to abused wives being able to be housed in state funded shelters,to the disabled receiving medicaid.
- A CapFax Reader - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:39 am:
Yes, look across the country and see what is happening to wages, benefits, even availability of jobs with benefits. The question is - what do we want our society to look like? We can’t get from here to there without creating a framework for the future - together. This attitude of this worker has more than I do, so let’s take it away from them - in no way helps he who is making the complaint get to a similar job or benefits. If you agree with that take-away approach, you are joining the Trend and bolstering it. Just what the ALEC-ites want to see. Another worker commiting mutiny toward their own working class group and thinking that will somehow benefit their own lives - clue - what they take away from the worker that “has” today doesn’t go to you tomorrow - it goes to the Big Haves - with multiple B’s like Billions - and that takeaway $ gets stashed overseas and leaves the initial aggrieved worker to pay even more taxes in place of the Haves money that fled. Nice plan there.
- The Captain - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:42 am:
10 run function ZEALOTRY
20 GOTO 10
- Andy S. - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:43 am:
Triple Fat, about SB 1 could have been worse, and we should all support the Speaker: could have been worse for whom? Certainly not for retirees like myself. SB 1 cut the present value of my pension by 20%. What is going on currently has no impact on me at all, because SURS has enough money on hand to pay benefits (even with no budget and no state contributions) for at least the next 7 years.
Btw, Madigan and Cullerton have no one to blame but themselves for the current mess. With just a tad of courage they could have muscled through a permanent extension of the 5% income tax in the lame duck period between the November gubernatorial election and Rauner’s inauguration, but they didn’t, and now the entire state is paying the price.
- Streator Curmudgeon - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:44 am:
Wouldn’t this bill be unconstitutional under the 13th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution?
- Greyhound - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:46 am:
Why not just put this bill up as is? If no changes were made, what would be the Republicans’ reason for not voting yes? You might expect a few Union friendly republicans to even vote no. Madigan probably couldn’t pass this garbage if he wanted to.
- Cassandra - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:52 am:
Well, I certainly agree with noon time that many if not most citizens aren’t very interested in the intricacies of the current state budget crisis. Were they ever? Plus, some unit of Illinois govt is always in a budget crisis. An increasing percentage of the nation’s workers don’t have the kinds of benefits unionized public workers do, so it all seems kind of exotic.
I don’t blame anybody for this. Citizens are not evil because they are not rising up and demanding that politicians safeguard union protections in perpetuity. Unions aren’t evil for trying to hang on to them. It’s what it is.
- Skeptic - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:56 am:
The Captain:
15 FOR I = 1 To NUMBER_OF_TALKING_POINTS
16 PRINT TALKINGPOINT(I)
17 NEXT I
- cdog - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:57 am:
Sounds like a definition of “slave.” Maybe we can pass this at the federal level too and eliminate any recourse. /s
- illinifan - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 12:01 pm:
former federal prosecutor….there are private sector employers who have better packages…I know people who were able to retire from private sector jobs (AT &T, US Steel etc) who left at age 50 with pensions and fully paid for health care. If they went to work elsewhere no one said they were leaching off the system. There are other jobs where the employer makes the full contribution to the employees 401K up to 20% of their salary each year, there are other employers who have 35 hour work weeks. There are employers who contribute to their employees college educations. Each employer is different and it is important to ask about these things before agreeing to be hired. Just because you decided to hire on at a place with less benefits don’t envy people who made other choices in their lives and possibly a better choice than you made.
- The Captain - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 12:01 pm:
@ Skeptic, that’s great.
- northshore cynic - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 12:09 pm:
A not so great man once said
Lincoln would be rolling over in his grave if he read this.
Doesn’t this contradict the Emancipation Proclamation?
- Grandson of Man - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 12:11 pm:
I tried to post before but it didn’t take. If upon this post multiple comments of mine appear, I apologize.
Here goes again:
I commend Madigan for standing against Rauner’s trickle-down agenda, and the lie that stripping bargaining rights over wages and benefits from thousands of government employees will bring prosperity.
I thought Rauner moved away from union-stripping and reduced his agenda to just a few items. Nope. He’s sneaky, just like other union-busting Republicans, who pass anti-union bills after not running on them, and who pass bills late at night.
The Wisconsin GOP/Scott Walker recently tried to sneakily “gut” their open records law. They got caught. It caused a backlash, so they backed off. The Koch worms wanted to slither around in undemocratic darkness and do their plutocratic funders’ bidding while blocking citizens and the public from knowing what they’re doing.
- Anon - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 12:14 pm:
== Few people outside of the IL gravy train or dole care if the government shuts down. And none of them are blaming Rauner. ===
Are you effing kidding? I have an autistic child and I care a LOT if his services are available.
We are both professionals with professional salaries - his therapies are still unaffordable without state help (and we pay for a LOT. We’re shorting our retirement.) I assume you’d rather he grow up to be a contributing, taxpaying member of society rather than someone who has to live in a care home for the next 50 years, which is the outcome if we DON’T get the services and therapies we need for him.
But maybe you consider us and him “on the dole.”
- LTSW - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 12:24 pm:
Except for #3, I think those provisions apply to federal workers. They cannot negotiate pay or benefits or pensions.
- Triple fat - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 12:36 pm:
Rich could you please email me what I did wrong when I was trying to answer Andy’s question?
- StateWorker - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 12:45 pm:
WOW, I don’t even know where to start, although I would really LOVE to address ntd and ffp I don’t think this is the proper platform for me to let them know what I really think. I have worked for the state for 30 years. I worked my way up from a temporary employee, to support staff, to professional over the years, and I also went to school part-time to earn the degree that would help me do that. We gave colas up years and years ago, in the last seven years I have had one raise, we have a union but it isn’t AFSCME. I will never get to the top salary because of all the freezes we have had. I am now seriously contemplating retiring three years earlier than I wanted to simply because I don’t want to lose the benefits I worked for thirty years to achieve. I have paid my share of the pension all the years, and played by the rules but at the end of the day it really doesn’t seem to matter. Oh, and a final note, please REMEMBER STATE EMPLOYEES ARE TAXPAYERS TOO. I will never understand the misconception that we don’t pay taxes!
- Arsenal - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 12:46 pm:
==That’s all anecdotal evidence==
Sez the guy going on and on about how HE doesn’t care about unions and HIS FRIENDS don’t care about unions, and so unions shouldn’t fight to get the best deal they can.
- Arsenal - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 12:51 pm:
== It’s them vs the tax payer who actually foots the bill for this.==
State workers pay taxes. Non-state workers rely on state services.
You do know that Bruce Rauner disagrees with you on all this, right? I mean, he’s out there telling everyone who’ll listen that he wants state employees to get paid. He’s working for the leeches now! THEY GOT TO HIM! THE CALLS ARE COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE!
- Jake From Elwood - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 12:52 pm:
Very entertaining thread.
But back to reality.
Does anyone think this bill has any scintilla of hope of passage (other than noon time drinker)?
It is surely DOA.
In a couple of years, I feel like we will look back at this as the precise moment where the friendlier TV Rauner pulled off his mask to reveal his truer, darker intentions for our state and its hard-working employees.
I am really starting to second-guess my vote for Bruce Rauner, even if it was really a vote against Pat Quinn more than anything.
Sigh.
- Me too - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 1:01 pm:
I’m not just now seeing Rauner for what he is. I saw it all along. My vote against Pat Quinn was the one for Dillard in the primary. When I was stuck to choose between Quinn and Rauner, I chose Quinn. Off the cuff anti union and shutdown comments early in the campaign told me all I needed to know about Bruce. He said those things before he got “on message”. They were his true beliefs, and as Rich has pointed out, he’s a true believer in his anti-union trickle down agenda.
- CEA - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 1:03 pm:
Prediction: Not happenin’.
- Triple fat - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 1:06 pm:
Andy - to answer your question ( and please keep in mind this answer is very toned down) a great deal of thought went into the crafting of SB1. It was designed so those who were receiving modest benefits would be least affected. People receiving a larger benefit would be impacted more. Why? Because just like a graduated income tax… Those making more are better able to afford it. I can understand your feeling that this is not I was promised. I would also like to point out that just because the Governor’s plan doesn’t affect you personally, does not make it a better reform than SB1. Especially since SB1was found unconstitutional. If the Governer’s proposal becomes law I for one would gladly give up 20 percent in its stead. We all need to stick together and not fall into their trap of pitting one faction against the other. We are all in this together and united we will win.
PS Rich - thank you for toning my rhetoric down.
- Wordslinger - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 1:07 pm:
Was the only purpose of this whale to make it look like they’re doing some work?
- Enviro - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 1:11 pm:
We can read the truth about the turnaround agenda in this pension reform bill. This bill reminds me of a dystopian society in which people are unhappy, oppressed, and live in fear.
Definition of DYSTOPIA: an imaginary place where people lead dehumanized and often fearful lives
- Just Me - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 1:11 pm:
C’mon, Rich. This isn’t a poison pill, this is an opening negotiation stance. We all know that when trying to pass legislation you start with the “extreme” and then you negotiate down.
- Tournaround Agenda - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 1:17 pm:
Just Me, it’s the same “opening negotiating stance” he’s been pushing for months. Seems to me we’d be past that by now.
- Peregrine48 - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 1:31 pm:
To the many commenter that like to claim how much better state workers have it than the private sector… Do some research before spouting off, will you?
My wife just moved from state to private. Similar poition, similar hours. Medical coverage is far better, started with 15 days paid vacation, salary within 3% of her state salary, a 401k which, had she had it for the same 23 years she had with state, would be worth far more than the pension SHE paid over $400 per month for, and more. She had other, better, offers, but chose this one for personal reasons.
Anyone that truly believes that a man with over $500 million really has any concern for the working man really needs to look at his history and how is word only seems to be good from one press conference to the next. Unfortunately, the so-called facts he spouts off are no more accurate than the claims that the moon is made of cheese.
Do some research and stop believing what you’re told or read just because the news publishes it. Everybody has an agenda, and only a truly informed person will understand what that agenda may be.
- Buzzie - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 1:40 pm:
And the Republican legislators are in lock step with the Govenor why? When will they recognize that Ilinois is stil a “blue” state and that the past election was NOT pro-Rauner but anti-Quinn?
- Politix - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 1:44 pm:
Hilarious thread. Trollers be trollin.
- TRH - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 1:45 pm:
@FFP I keep seeing a lot lately referring to our 37.5 hour work week as a state employee perk. When I started 26 years ago I was told that a few years earlier we worked 40 hours but it was reduced to 37.5 to save the state money. Probably a trade-off for no lay-offs or something. Like any other employee getting his hours cut and pay reduced as a result to save employer money. Now decades later it’s viewed as an employee perk. Implying we work 37.5 but paid for 40. Personally I’d love to go back to 40, I could use the increase in pay. Of course, I’m sure we’d be expected to do it for the same pay.
- Roscoe Tom - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 2:01 pm:
What do you expect from a guy who thinks he bought the State and should be able to play with his purchase as he sees fit?
- DANgO - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 2:05 pm:
The “put the squeeze on ‘em”. Everybody take out your pitchforks!
- Mason born - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 2:11 pm:
Triple fat
Let me be clear. To the extent MJM is a countering force to this kind of crud yes happy he is there. However as SB1 shows he is not above throwing people under the bus if it suits him. Pensions were the most sacrosanct of worker benefits. AFSCME worked with Cullerton to reach a compromise MJM tossed it and went with a much more draconian sb1 over the fiercest of union objections. My point is actually quite simple. MJM has his priorities if his priorities line up with your needs your good the second they don’t your dirt. Appreciate the breaking affect he is having right now but don’t count on him.
As for SB1 that was the opposite of fiscal responsibility that was walking out of the restaurant without paying and swiping the tip of all the tables on your way out. The so called high earners were simply larger creditors who had much more money and potential earning potential tied up in the debt he wanted to abandon.
I wish you luck. Just remember if MJM is guarding you flank it’s only secure as long as it is convenient for him. He is the very definition of politician.
- Wordslinger - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 2:27 pm:
Mason, the obvious unconstitutionality of SB1, as described in the Supreme’s unanimous decision, leads me to believe that it was simply a tactic to get the issue off the table before the election and get a definitive ruling on the issue going forward.
Ty and the Tribbies were happy with it, then the Supremes brought the hammer down after the election. So it worked.
- Qui Tam - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 2:32 pm:
noon time drink - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:03 am:
=”Out here in the real world most of us are just trying to get by while the unions milked the public treasury. It’s gone on way too long and everyone who votes for Rauner knows it. That’s why no outside of the unions feels any sympathy for state workers or their union.”=
So are you saying that cutting private sector worker pay & benefits has been a good idea that should be replicated?
Your Raunerite “creators” and corporations as people have amassed huge amounts of wealth and have gleaned double-digit pay and profit increases each year they cut you out. These are the ones you side with against working folks?
Why?
- Mason born - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 2:34 pm:
Word
You may be correct. Probably are in that it cleared up or should have cleared up the issues. I would still consider the Speaker an ally of convenience mainly his convenience.
I actually had hoped for a semi sucsesfull term for Rauner amd Madigan. Potentially two equals with diferent perspectives can reach greater solutions. Sadly it appears the gov. is a one trick pony who failed basic civics.
- Wisconsin Democrat - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 2:42 pm:
Scott Walker sends his regards.
- TRH - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 2:45 pm:
Three guys are sitting at a table. A public sector worker, a private sector worker, and a CEO. In the center of the table is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO reaches over and grabs eleven of the cookies. The public worker grabs the last cookie leaving only crumbs on the plate.
The CEO looks at the private sector worker and asks “Aren’t you angry that the public sector worker has a cookie while you have only crumbs? Been this way for years, aren’t you tired and fed up with it? You should hate that spoiled public sector worker for this. Want me to do something about it?”.
The private sector worker, assuming the CEO will take that cookie and split it between them answers “HELL YES!!”.
So the CEO reaches over and snatches the cookie from the public sector worker leaving only crumbs. Looks at them both and says “There, I fixed it. Now you’re equal. Now let’s all prosper.”
The CEO has systematically taken your cookie from you, private sector worker, over the last three decades. Now you resent me because I still have mine. Rather than demanding I give up my cookie you should be fighting to take your cookie back.
- Robert Lincoln - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 3:01 pm:
@FFP:
Federal prosecutors start at GS11, $50-65 thousand
After 6 months GS 12, 60-78 thousand
after 12 months, GS 13, 71-93 thousand
Benefits:
13 vacation days, 13 days sick, 10 paid holidays,
health care, life insurance.
You left to be a private attorney.
Tell your story walking
- AnonymousOne - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 3:13 pm:
TRH, great story, great message. But I thought
- Emily Booth - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 3:15 pm:
I was in the union off and on over the years depending on my position. And, while I had mixed feelings about the union, I will always be grateful they renegotiated the pension from 30% to 50% of pay. That meant more to me than anything.
Mr. Rauner wants that chair we sit in to be very, very hard.
- Allen D - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 3:16 pm:
@TRH addition to the story~~~
Small business owner walks up sorry guys the state takes from us all the time, here is another dozen for the two of you, eat up boys.
- Robert the 1st - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 3:16 pm:
TRH- “Now you resent me because I still have mine.” No, if people resent state employees it’s because their union is always lobbying to hike taxes. It wasn’t the CEOs chanting “Raise the taxes” in Springfield. That 2% hike might not seemed like much to you after you “best deal in the nation” 13% raise along with COLAs and semi-auto promotions. But that’s 2% less for your neighbor’s 401k, just hoping to retire at 67.
- AnonymousOne - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 3:19 pm:
OOps….hit send too early. Saying that TRH has a great message and all working people should be standing up for their rights and wages, not just public workers. Isn’t this exactly how unionization began? Owners taking all profits and leaving workers with crumbs and 7 day work weeks? Despite the negativity toward unions by some, they are the only force keeping owners from reverting back to those days and we sure do seem to be headed back that way. All workers should be concerned about where this is all headed.
- Percival - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 3:23 pm:
Even I don’t get this one.
- dupage dan - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 3:45 pm:
=== - LTSW - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 12:24 pm:
Except for #3, I think those provisions apply to federal workers. They cannot negotiate pay or benefits or pensions ===
This is some of the logic Walker used - with success - when he pushed his legislation thru the Wisc legislature. I also note this comment (and there were a couple others that were similar) are essentially ignored by the Illuminati here on CapFax - whether they be unabashed liberal democrats or the “my party” republicans. Illinois state gov’t employees (again - the disclaimer - I am a 25 year union state employee) enjoy more bargaining rights powers than do many other states and, yes, even the vaunted federal gov’t. And yet folks flock to these coveted jobs because even in their limited scope, have some perks that have some real value. Our health insurance has been declared throughout the whole era of the ACA as “Gold Standard”, our paid sick days, vacation days, personal days, state holidays, 4 day work week, comp time, overtime - all these things add up to value. Not necessarily easily identified as such but if one were to monetize these benefits, our income and benefits result in a decent standard of living. The “Middle Class”, we are told, are under attack by those who would reduce them to poverty. Well, who do you think is paying for the state employees middle class lifestyle? The rich? (uh, no - we are bombarded daily with proof they pay little in taxes). The poor? (uh, no, they apparently don’t make enough to owe any taxes). Nope, it’s the middle class private citizen who is paying for our salaries and our generous benefits. A tax increase will be needed to repair our pension program - paid for by private citizen middle class taxpayers. The list goes on.
But this remains clear. Illinois gov’t employees have more rights under bargaining agreements than do federal employees. Wisc Gov Walker proved that this was not only true, but that it should be done in Wisconsin. He succeeded. The savings have helped the state but have not unduly harmed state employees.
- AnonymousOne - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 3:56 pm:
So why don’t middle class workers (instead of ripping each other apart, private V. public) demand that those who can afford to pay more….DO SO? I’m sure those in the upper class (if they were to read some of the comments on this site, and pay attention to some stories in the media) get belly laughs at us tearing each other to shreds while they get off scott-free. Are we that dumb?
- kimocat - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:08 pm:
I wondered for awhile if the long-term philosophy behind these proposals — like Rauner’s and Walker’s — was A. To eliminate campaign funding for Democrats by destroying unions financially, or B. To create a compliant and desperate work force by final elimination of middle class jobs with decent salaries and benefits, or C. All of the above. I think C. Those of you that want these outcomes, by all means, vote for your favorite plutocrats, I’m sure they’ll throw you a few crumbs on the way to the bank if you bow and scrape enough.
- CharlieKratos - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:11 pm:
“A tax increase will be needed to repair our pension program - paid for by private citizen middle class taxpayers.”
Wrong. ALL taxpayers, including state workers will be paying to repair the pension program, which is only right considering that ALL taxpayers benefited in one way or another from the artificially low 3% tax rate that was subsidized by money that SHOULD have gone to pension payments. How is this so hard to understand?
- CharlieKratos - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:14 pm:
Rich, are we allowed to discuss Bernie Sanders on here? Plutocracy in general? Or are we limited to just Illinois politics, though some could argue that whichever Dem gets the Big Seat in 2016 will influence Illinois considerably?
- Honeybear - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:24 pm:
FYI the 37.5 workweek is because we get 2 15 minute breaks a day. We just have our breaks built into our work week.
- Huh? - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:34 pm:
Honeybear the 37.5 hour week is because of the 1 hour lunch. When I was an IDOT construction RE, we had a 40 hour week because of a 1/2 lunch which coincided with the contractor’s lunch break.
I noticed that IDOT is going to have a blood drive on 7/21. I guess that means that the governor isn’t satisfied with just taking all of the rights and benefits that the unions have won in collective bargaining - now he wants our blood too.
- TRH - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:58 pm:
@Huh? & Honeybear Ok looks like I was misinformed so long ago as to the reason of 37.5. Thanks. But at least it clears up the misconception ( misleading?) of it being 2.5hour fleecing. Thanks again for clearing this up.
- Robert the 1st - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:07 pm:
I don’t think anyone is too worried about state employees working another 2.5 hours each week. The issue is, the state, which is broke, is paying time and a half at 37.5 instead of 40 like everywhere else.
- Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:39 pm:
=The issue is, the state, which is broke, is paying time and a half at 37.5 instead of 40 like everywhere else.=
Wrong. Those state employees who are a 37.5 hour work week schedule (I am one and not all state employees are)make straight time for the first 2.5 hours of overtime worked in a week. OT at time and a half does not start until 40 hours is reached.
- Robert the 1st - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:49 pm:
I apologize if that’s true. I was under the impression that overtime at 37.5 hours was a point of contention in the negotiations, along with sick, holiday, and vaca days counting towards overtime.
- Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:15 pm:
Not a problem. I’ve been a state employee for more than 19 years, and its always been that time and a half does not start until 40 hours ina week is reached, which is what is required by federal labor law. I’ve lost count of the number of people, including some state employees who were on a 40 hour schedule, who just assumed that OT started at 37.5 hours. By the way, in my agency, norml work schedule is 8:30 - 5:00, (8.5 hours) with a 1 hour unpaid lunch break.
- Triple fat - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:25 pm:
Mason born - you and I want the same outcome. We want to defeat Rauners extreme agenda… Listen to word slinger… I truly believe the Speaker is our friend… Who cares if our marriage is one of convenience? I don’t because right now I would appreciate his help. I hate to repeat myself but - the enemy of my enemy is my friend… Right now we should be supporting our friends - each other and the Speakers because right now - at this present time… Our interest converge… Embrace it. Support the Speaker… The moment our interests don’t align is the time to bad mouth and work against the speaker… Until then - we should offer him support.
- Triple fat - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:30 pm:
By the way Scott Walker is getting ready to sign a budget that eliminates The Living Wage and the Prevailing Wage, in Wisconsin… Sound familiar? The Speaker isn’t a member of ALEC. Just sayin
- milkman - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:42 pm:
For all of you that continue to push the line. “State workers have a better deal than private sector workers” . It took years for state workers to catch up with the private sector. Now because men and women such as Rauner and you have destroyed this country’s manufacturing base and run jobs out of this country and looted the private pensions. Now that you’ve destroyed most of the private unions we’re next in line.
- Triple fat - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:47 pm:
Du page Dan - well if you’re so willing to solve the budget crisis on your back… Just go ahead and offer to your boss that You DuPage Dan deserves a cut in salary… And you just go right ahead when figuring your cut all those thingies that add up in value when considering how much you want to give up… By the way any overtime needs to be pre-approved. I for one- have donated many hours to the State. But you go ahead and balance the budget on your back… Please leave my back out of your bargain.
- No Longer A Lurker - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 7:27 pm:
John Tilmon and Ralph Martie are having a spirited discussion on Chicago Tonight, WTTW right now. I believe the show is reposted on-line sometime later if you are interested in their views of Rauner’s pension plan.
- Rick - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 8:07 pm:
This is your Republican answer. I hope everyone who voted for him is Proud. Just like Walker up north, Bust the unions, make them work for an unlivable wage, no benefits, or pension. Give the tax breaks to big business and the millionaires. Remember, 2016, Not ONE Republican ever mentions UNIONS.
- Mason born - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 8:22 pm:
Triple fat
Good luck. I will continue to expect any flank secured by madugan to be vulnerable. The good news is he doesn’t give a good galdarn what either of us think.
Actually for you I think the budget showdown helps you. Particularly with the no lockout bill. It will take every dem vote to overcome the veto. Which coincidentally makes it a plum bargaining chip. The madder MJM stays at Rauner the better the chances of him whipping it hard out of spite.
- RNUG - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:14 pm:
== AFSCME worked with Cullerton to reach a compromise ==
That was just as unconstitutional as SB-1
- walker - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:56 pm:
To back up RNUG both Madigan and Cullerton plans were viewed as long shots legally, but not slam dunk losses. One rationale at the time was: if both are legal long shots, let’s go with the one that has the most fiscal impact and has a chance to substantially work on the numbers long term. Why take such a big risk on something that wouldn’t solve the problem even if it passed muster? Moot now. The court has spoken clearly.
- Mason born - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 5:39 am:
RNUG and Walker
Completely agree. My point was more to MJM being an ally of convenience. AFSCME needed his help but it was more convenient to do sb1. Which highlighted that any flank covered by MJM is only as good as long as it is expedient for him.
- VanillaMan - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 7:17 am:
My point was more to MJM being an ally of convenience.
If MJM wasn’t Speaker during the Ryan, Blagojevich, Quinn and now Rauner administrations - where would Illinois be? He isn’t a governor, so he cannot govern. What he has been forced to do over the past decade is run Illinois from the Speaker’s chair along with the Senate Majority leader. Running a state in that way, isn’t a good way to run a state.
Madigan has been around over 40 years. Do we have a 40 year rolling disaster in Illinois, or are we having a rolling disaster after Edgar left office?
MJM is an ally of convenience for everyone in Illinois. Those unhappy with state government, blame him for it because there hasn’t been a fully functioning governor in this state since Edgar.
The GOP has been moribund since then as well.
Illinois needs at least two functioning political parties, competent governing elected officials, and the return of a robust national US economy to pull us out of these dark days.
- Not Again - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 8:46 am:
Great Chicago Tonight debate on this issue yesterday.
http://chicagotonight.wttw.com/2015/07/09/analyzing-gov-rauners-latest-pension-plan
- Norseman - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 9:18 am:
Not Again, thanks for the link. Tillman got schooled by Martire. Shows once again that IPI is nothing but a right wing propaganda operation.
- Wordslinger - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 9:28 am:
Why would Tillman agree to appear with Martire? Way out of his league.
Why would the governor put Tillman out there to sell his “plan.” Is that the “friendly face” of the administration?
- PublicServant - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 9:36 am:
Arruza didn’t really pick up on Martire’s point about the plan being unconstitutional. He stated that unless the employee was given the right to decline the offer, and keep the current plan in place, then there was no consideration, only coercion. I’m taking away 10 things, or agree to become tier 2 and you might get one or two less things taken.