28 Comments - illinoised - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 12:22 pm: But Msall hit the nail on the head regarding the real reason people are leaving. - IllinoisBoi - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 12:23 pm: “Hard to quantify, Walstrum says.” It’s hard to quantify an insignificant amount. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 12:25 pm: ===Msall: people aren’t leaving bc of taxes, going where they can predict and have confidence in what their government is going to provide.=== This. All types of “leaving Illinois” for many reasons, but a stronger mitigating factor is uncertainty in the state’s government functions then the taxes for the state to run those functions. - Norseman - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 12:34 pm: === Manar asks Fed economist if he can quantify what growth would arise from governor’s turnaround agenda. Hard to quantify, Walstrum says. === As Word has pointed asked so frequently, what is the ROI for TA? Walstrum can’t identify it. Rauner can’t identify it, but he’s willing to greatly increase state debt, damage social service agencies and higher education, harm many lives in the name of a plan with dubious benefits. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 12:53 pm: What can be quantified is the number of people who have lost their jobs, the number of businesses that have gone under and the overall negative economic impact and lost economic opportunity of the governor reneging on contracts and borrowing billions from state vendors to barely cover the daily nut. I’d suggest the Democrats get on it. What are you waiting for? - Truthteller - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 12:55 pm: Rauner’s statements have as much a relationship to reality as do Trump’s tweets. - A Jack - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 1:01 pm: Is Rauner now going to claim that the Fed works for Madigan? - Arock - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 1:20 pm: I don’t know about the first statement as all the bad budgets in the past have given us a $100+ billion budget deficit and $5 billion in overdue bills when Rauner first came into office and that doesn’t even figure in the unfunded insurance obligation for retirees. - Lucky Pierre - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 1:24 pm: The usual suspects pinning all of the blame for outward migration on Governor Rauner have it all wrong. Illinois has been one of the leaders in outward migration long before Rauner was elected Chicago was 6th worst in 200 largest metros for outward migration in 2012 https://www.forbes.com/pictures/mli45lmhg/4-chicago-ill/#75dddf6d75f2 https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illinois%C2%92-high-tax-environment-causes-historical-out-migration/ Could it be the dubious honor of leading the nation in distrust of our state government ? http://www.gallup.com/poll/189281/illinois-residents-least-confident-state-government.aspx - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 1:25 pm: - Arock - So any governor not having a budget for an entire seated General Assembly and working to continue that non-budget record has had no effect? Hmm. That’s what your argument solids like… - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 1:27 pm: ===The usual suspects pinning all of the blame for outward migration on Governor Rauner have it all wrong.=== The only way your drivel here makes sense is if you advocate that having no budgets two years running has had no economic impact on Illinois or its image. You can’t make that case, so there’s that… - walker - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 1:42 pm: Msall’s staff produces accurate numbers, and he knows how to interpret them. - Lucky Pierre - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 1:49 pm: The usual drivel would be no change to the unbalanced budgets Illinois has had for the past 15 years. The usual drivel would be no reform of state government the usual drivel would be no change to our business environment which has caused record outmigration and high unemployment The usual drivel would be no government consolidation which causes our property taxes to out highest in the nation OW you have been advocating for Rauner to just follow the Pat Quinn policy of total capitulation to the Speaker that caused him to be second most unpopular Governor and caused Rauner’s election. Why have we had no budgets? Speaker Madigan and Senator Cullerton could not come to an agreement among Supermajority Democrats but in your eyes the failure to compromise is on the Governor The Governor can’t compromise with democrats until they compromise among themselves. Seems pretty basic - Downstate Illinois - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 1:52 pm: If Illinois government is smaller than the state average it’s probably because we rely on local funding to do more. In other words the chart is useless. A better comparison would be to chart a combination of state and local government expenditures as a share of the Gross State Product and compare that to the average state/local combined expenditures. Of course one shouldn’t expect the Senate Democrats to play fair, not when a partisan point can be made. Though they really should campaign on the issue that state government isn’t big enough. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 2:00 pm: ===The usual drivel would be no change to the unbalanced budgets Illinois has had for the past 15 years=== No, we’re talking about today. Today-Today. Right now. You have no case with no budgets. ===The usual drivel would be no reform of state government=== 60 and 30. Same as it ever was. Do you remember the GHR quote about governors? Governors drive the bus. ===you have been advocating for Rauner to just follow the Pat Quinn policy of total capitulation to the Speaker that caused him to be second most unpopular Governor and caused Rauner’s election.=== No I haven’t, and if you can show that, do so. I can show where I support Jim Edgar’s AND Geo. Ryan’s assessment where Rauner is failing and why and the hostages versus 60 and 30. I can show YOU that all day. Again, you continue to think you have points, but you throw things out there that are provably wrong. ===Speaker Madigan and Senator Cullerton could not come to an agreement among Supermajority Democrats but in your eyes the failure to compromise is on the Governor=== (Insert GHR quote on governor’s leading and the working to pass what’s possible) It’s like you learn nothing daily, or you are literally here, regardless of fact or honest thought, and regurgitate refutable points in hopes no one notices. ===The Governor can’t compromise with democrats until they compromise among themselves. Seems pretty basic=== Tell that to Leader Radogno… Hmm. That all you have to defect. Nothing substantive or honest to process? Oh, sorry… ===The usual drivel would be no government consolidation which causes our property taxes to out highest in the nation=== What the ROI on that and how will that help budgetarily, with real numbers. “No, I’ll wait, thanks.” - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 2:02 pm: ===Tell that to Leader Radogno=== I’d buy a ticket to that event. - thechampaignlife - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 2:34 pm: ===chart a combination of state and local government expenditure=== Am I missing something or is that not exactly what the chart shows? - Maximus - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 3:03 pm: It would seem according to the IL Senate Democrats there is no problem other than Rauner. So once he loses the election in 2018 everyone will stop leaving Illinois and Moodys will rate Illnois debt above junk level? Who wants to wager neither of those things will happen? - VanillaMan - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 3:07 pm: Rauner is our Kevorkian governor who keeps telling us that we should stop trying, and embrace our doom so that we can all happily meet in bankruptsy heaven. - Anon - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 3:45 pm: So state and local taxes in Illinois consistently represent a smaller share of state GDP than the national average. Yet in his budget address, the Governor claimed that Illinois has the nation’s fifth highest tax burden. CTBA called him on that whopper at the time. - Anon - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 3:48 pm: Pierre is right about one thing. Illinois has been a net exporter of people for some time. The trend did not start in 2003. The Land of Lincoln has been losing congressional seats for half a century. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 4:25 pm: ===It would seem according to the IL Senate Democrats there is no problem other than Rauner.=== You can make the case Leader Radogno would agree with the IL Senate Democrats…. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 4:28 pm: Looking at the Twitter feed…… am I hallucinating? –IL House Democrats@HouseDemsIL Gov. Rauner’s unbalanced budget creates billions in new debt, denying future funding for programs Illinoisans rely on. #DoTheJob 3:39 PM - 22 Mar 2017– Did the carrier pigeons finally die? - wordslinger - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 4:34 pm: Speaking of quotable: –Did you know President Abraham Lincoln was a Republican? President Trump apparently thinks most people don’t. “Great president,” Trump said Tuesday night at a fundraising dinner for House Republicans. “Most people don’t even know he was a Republican. Right? Does anyone know? A lot of people don’t know that. We have to build that up a little more.” Trump then suggested using a political action committee to run advertisements letting people know that Lincoln was a member of his party.– https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/03/22/trump-most-people-dont-know-president-lincoln-was-a-republican/?utm_term=.f82bcc65cc0a - VanillaMan - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 6:14 pm: A state doesn’t lose congressional seats because of population loss. It loses congressional seats in order to have a proportional representation within Congress among all states. - Me too - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 6:19 pm: Rauners has a plan. It just isn’t a good one. We may be fined either way, but I’d rather try something else. - Rabid - Wednesday, Mar 22, 17 @ 8:37 pm: Its hard to believe the turnaround agenda savings - @MisterJayEm - Thursday, Mar 23, 17 @ 8:20 am: “OW you have been advocating for Rauner to just follow the Pat Quinn policy of total capitulation to the Speaker that caused him to be second most unpopular Governor and caused Rauner’s election.” When I suggested that you abandon your patented straw-man arguments, LP, I didn’t mean you should stoop to spouting bald-faced falsehoods. I know that Bruce Rauner’s record leaves you with very little material with which to make an argument for his time in office, but you would have a much better chance making such an argument if you hadn’t spent the last two years stripping yourself of any personal credibility whatsoever. That’s the thing about making logical arguments pseudonymously: you have no personal authority. The merit of your arguments is based solely on 1) the objective facts, and 2) the credibility you build by engaging with the group in an honest & logical manner. That’s it. Those are your only tools. And you can’t improve the ugly facts of Bruce Rauner’s tenure by throwing away your personal credibility. My sincere advice? I’d suggest that you take steps to repair your credibility (logic & honesty) and then work to preserve your credibility (again, logic & honesty). That advice applies to everyone who posts here, including me. All the best, etc., – MrJM Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.