Fun with numbers
Wednesday, Nov 1, 2017 - Posted by Rich Miller
* Tribune…
Carrying signs that read “Babies Before Bezos,” about two dozen union workers called on Mayor Rahm Emanuel and Gov. Bruce Rauner to spend more on child care subsidies, citing $2 billion in incentives dangled to lure Amazon to Chicago.
The Service Employees International Healthcare union on Wednesday used the high-profile Amazon HQ2 bid to draw a distinction between what they said is elected officials’ willingness to empty the bank to court company CEO Jeff Bezos while many Chicago families can’t afford care for their young children.
“This decision by our elected officials to give $2 billion in city, state and county tax incentives to Amazon shows this is not a matter of money,” said Brynn Seibert, director of the union’s child care division, said the money is there. “It’s a matter of choice.” […]
Chicago’s bid for Amazon to build its second headquarters in the city included what sources said was $1.32 billion in EDGE tax credits and $172.5 million in sales tax and utility tax exemptions from the state; $61.4 million in property tax discounts from Cook County and Chicago; and $450 million in to-be-determined infrastructure spending from the Illinois Department of Transportation, Chicago Department of Transportation, Chicago Transit Authority and other agencies.
Except for the infrastructure stuff, which would likely be bonded over time, they’re not talking about dedicating $2 billion out of existing revenues each and every year to HQ2. It’s reducing what Amazon would pay the government if they moved here over a period of years.
* Sun-Times…
“$2 billion would provide affordable child care for every single child, every single working family in the Chicago metro area,” Seibert said. “We want to see our leaders express the same willingness to invest in children and invest in families that they’re showing in investing in corporations like Amazon. … This is not a matter of money. It’s a matter of choice.” […]
Rauner’s spokesperson Patty Schuh made no apologies for the $2.25 billion Amazon incentive package; the high-stakes competition has produced more than 220 offers.
“We are competing with other regions and other states to land a major economic development project that puts people to work,” Schuh said Wednesday. “The more people who go to work, the more people who are available to pay [taxes] to fund our core priorities.”
- Shemp - Wednesday, Nov 1, 17 @ 3:03 pm:
“Except for the infrastructure stuff, which would likely be bonded over time, they’re not talking about dedicating $2 billion out of existing revenues each and every year to HQ2. It’s reducing what Amazon would pay the government if they moved here over a period of years.”
Inconvenient facts. Same premise behind TIF. Just easier to dog something and not think second level.
- Revolver - Wednesday, Nov 1, 17 @ 3:05 pm:
“Babies Before Bezos”
Did Mary Flowers become the new SEIU head?
- Commonsense in Illinois - Wednesday, Nov 1, 17 @ 3:09 pm:
Isn’t it refreshing to have Patty commenting with civil and factual content?
- City Zen - Wednesday, Nov 1, 17 @ 3:16 pm:
SEIU has their hands full with Scott Courtney and Caleb Jennings sexual harassment allegations. Or maybe hostile work environments come after Bezos.
- Amalia - Wednesday, Nov 1, 17 @ 3:16 pm:
“Babies before Bezos” jeez. like we can’t do both things. such a tiring way to appeal to the needs of small people, get the interest of parents…especially the moms squad activists who frame everything in that way…no one is ignoring kids because they are trying to create jobs, lots of jobs. unless, of course you don’t care that your kid grows up to get a job. (snark intended.)
- Perrid - Wednesday, Nov 1, 17 @ 3:21 pm:
Like Rich says, the state technically isn’t “giving” money to Amazon, it’s agreeing not to collect money. Where SEIU wants the government to write a bigger check. I personally agree that the government should write a bigger check for child care, but it’s a false equivalence. Also there’s the question of, is the state really losing anything by giving the tax breaks? If Amazon doesn’t come to IL the IL gets nothing. Someone that’s spent a lot more time than I have on this topic would have to answer that question.
- cannon649 - Wednesday, Nov 1, 17 @ 3:25 pm:
$150 billion plus in unfunded liabilities
Priorities?
- Economics 101 - Wednesday, Nov 1, 17 @ 3:29 pm:
The SEIU’s of the world depend on public ignorance of basic economics. As Perrid notes, its about not collecting money that currently doesn’t exist and trading the non-existent revenue for jobs and all the impacts of jobs–including growth, sales taxes, etc., which in turn can be used for such things as, yes, child care.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Nov 1, 17 @ 3:30 pm:
The protest will be dismissed. Our pursuit of Amazon will continue. So much hope and energy will be going into this. Lots of competition too.
- City Zen - Wednesday, Nov 1, 17 @ 3:33 pm:
==$150 billion plus in unfunded liabilities==
Pensions
Predate
Prime
- BullMoose - Wednesday, Nov 1, 17 @ 3:33 pm:
- Amalia “jeez. like we can’t do both things” -
Rauner says we can’t. Just proposed $60 million in child care cuts. He’s got money tax breaks for corporations, but not for working parents.
Parents can’t work at Amazon if they can’t afford the child care.
- Da Big Bad Wolf - Wednesday, Nov 1, 17 @ 3:41 pm:
Yes, I’ve been hearing that arguement ad nauseam. “Its money that didn’t exist before.” Guess what else doesn’t exist before? Amazon employees using the roads, the libraries, the police, the court system, the forest preserves, the snow plows, the minutemen, DCFS workers, social worker, etc. They will consume things that the taxes will pay for. If they get these things at a discount, you better believe everyone else will have to pay more.
- Amalia - Wednesday, Nov 1, 17 @ 3:48 pm:
who says Rauner will be in charge?
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Nov 1, 17 @ 3:51 pm:
Let’s see Da Big Bad—I pay taxes and I don’t use a social worker, DCFS workers, the minutemen, the forest preserve, the court system, and a whole bunch more. My real estate taxes pay for all of that.
Do I get a refund??
- Phil King - Wednesday, Nov 1, 17 @ 3:52 pm:
Without the incentives, they don’t come here.
$2 billion is a fraction of their tax liability.
These folks are welcome to take whatever fraction of $0 they want if Amazon doesn’t come.
- Bull Moose - Wednesday, Nov 1, 17 @ 3:53 pm:
- they’re not talking about dedicating $2 billion out of existing revenues each and every year to HQ2. It’s reducing what Amazon would pay the government if they moved here over a period of years. -
A penny saved is a penny earned. If state leaders want to forgo $2 billion in revenue, they could just as easily borrow that $2 billion to pay for child care, which by the way has tremendous economic benefits for the state.
- Phil King - Wednesday, Nov 1, 17 @ 3:55 pm:
==If state leaders want to forgo $2 billion in revenue==
Again, they’re not forgoing $2 billion in revenue.
They’re gaining whatever portion remains.
Without the package, there is no Amazon.
You’re trying to tax $0 in profits.
- Curl of the Burl - Wednesday, Nov 1, 17 @ 3:58 pm:
Bull - my guess would be that employees at AHQ2 would make enough $$$ to pay for childcare (or at least pay for most of their childcare costs). These are not mere warehouse jobs.
- California Guy - Wednesday, Nov 1, 17 @ 5:11 pm:
That’s how State AND local economic development works now. Big (for the most part) companies get lured in with tax deductions or other financial incentives to pad the bottom line.
The only way for one state to stop it is to convince other states to also stop - which probably won’t happen.
- Ron - Wednesday, Nov 1, 17 @ 5:33 pm:
Wow, these protestors aren’t the brightest. The state is not giving a dime through the proposal. It’s a tax break. A break on taxes that won’t exist if Amazon doesn’t show up anyway.
- Bull Moose - Wednesday, Nov 1, 17 @ 7:56 pm:
- Curl - I wouldn’t be so sure. Child care is now more expensive that in-state college tuition. Sometimes upper and middle income families are worse off because they get no subsidy at all. Universal child care would take a load off for working parents. As the article states, EVERY working parent in the Chicago Metro area could get affordable child care with the $2 billion that they’d let Amazon not pay. That would help the lawyer, programmer, you name it. It wouldn’t just be “for the poor.”
- Blue dog dem - Wednesday, Nov 1, 17 @ 8:15 pm:
How come ya’ll aremt fighting for tax breaks for the tens of thousands of small businesses that are already here in Illinois. You know, the ones who have paid for our roads and schools. You know the small retail shops that Amazon runs out of business. Yup, keep raising the taxes on existing business, but give the competetive advantage to some new company. If you true conservatives and pure progressives think this is just or fair, then old Blue outlived his time on this earth.
- Loopy Lou - Wednesday, Nov 1, 17 @ 9:17 pm:
This is a very unique opportunity. Amazon is an entity we want and need in Illinois, and the positive impact would be significant. Frankly I don’t think the $2B will get it done but I hope the benefits Illinois, and Chicago in particular, offer will be enough.
After losing much of our corporate identity over the last few decades, Amazon would symbolize that Chicago is on the rebound. Other businesses could follow suit. We need something to cheer about.
Hopefully it goes our way.
- Blue dog dem - Wednesday, Nov 1, 17 @ 9:22 pm:
Amazon is an entity I dont want. Unless they come in.paying the same taxes as everyone else.
- Da Big Bad Wolf - Thursday, Nov 2, 17 @ 7:41 am:
Let’s see, anonymous, I don’t want to pay the United States to be the world’s policeman. Do I get a refund? In what country do taxpayers get to pick and choose what their taxes pay for? Cafeteriastan?
- Da Big Bad Wolf - Thursday, Nov 2, 17 @ 7:48 am:
==Wow. These protestors aren’t the brightest.==
Brighter than all the commentors with their condescending remarks about how the state is only not collecting taxes not taking out of current revenues. When Amazon wants the roads cleared of snow who pay for that? When a burgler breaks into their offices who pays for the cops, courts, prison guards, bailiffs, judges,etc?. If they get these things at a discount who pays the difference?
- Wumpus - Thursday, Nov 2, 17 @ 8:58 am:
Stop taxing people so much so we can afford to not have both parents work. Government is responsible for child care now?
- Da Big Bad Wolf - Friday, Nov 3, 17 @ 6:51 am:
==Stop taxing people so much so we can afford to not have both parents work.=
You are thinking about the Eisenhower era, when families had one breadwinner? Check out the taxes the rich paid and get back to me.