35 Comments - Candy Dogood - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 9:06 am: I guess we’re at the point where the GOP primary is going to come down to who can most convincingly say the dumbest and socially irresponsible things. - OneMan - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 9:08 am: == It simply is not ethical to mandate vaccinations, FDA approved or otherwise. == Dude, I may have only gotten a B in the ethics class I took in college but it would seem the ethical thing to do would be to take action that has the greatest public benefit, not the action of personal convenience. I mean, using this logic, “since there is a low risk to me” I shouldn’t have to bring my garbage to the curb, I could get hit by a car, and it’s ok just to stockpile it in my yard, it may create a public health risk, but my personal inconvenience of getting hit by a car. Does he think no-smoking areas are ethical? - Cheryl44 - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 9:12 am: I know a reputable doctor isn’t going to talk about patient recorfs, but I wouldn’t be surprised at least half the well known anti-vaxxers have had the shots. - Larry Bowa Jr. - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 9:17 am: The cowardice of suburban school boards and superintendents in the face of criticism from the dumbest 20% of their parent population is something to behold. We could do the correct and obvious thing and require masks for unvaccinated kids, but instead let’s play roulette with the health of kids under 12, because Tammy from facebook said masks make you overdose on CO2 and also Tucker said on the white power hour last night that the vaccine is a conspiracy. Utterly pathetic. - Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 9:20 am: The COVID misinformation is so dangerous. Some Fox News hosts like Hannity thankfully are supporting vaccinations. A very troubling stat: According to a Gallup poll, Republican support for science dropped almost 30 points since 1975. This is what we have to contend with, and it’s promoted by prominent people, like the Florida governor who builds his campaign around attacking Dr. Fauci. - Too cute by half - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 9:28 am: Counter proposal: These people don’t want forced immunization, they say their immune systems are strong enough or it’s fake. How about forced exposure? - Lynn S. - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 9:31 am: Slight comfort for counties with low vax rates: they tend to have low populations. Huge concern for the rest of us: How far are those citizens going to travel, leaving COVID infections in their wake? Something Darren Bailey and his ilk should be grateful for: this started after the census started accepting forms. If COVID-19 had hit two years sooner, all those counties would have even lower counts than they are currently showing. (Somewhat devilish thought: perhaps the lack of census participation in those places was the Good Lord’s way of making sure the census count would line up with what their population is going to be, in 5-10 years time and COVID is closer to being over.) - Fav Human - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 9:50 am: The question is, what vaccine did those people get? It happened in Thailand too, but they all had Sinovac. So far even Sputnik seems better. - Illdoc - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 9:54 am: Yes, assuming 95 percent effectiveness then 5 percent will get potentially become ill. ( but hopefully less severe). BUT if everyone got the vaccine the virus would die out because the disease would not be able to transmit effectively - truthteller - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 10:09 am: I have zero problem with darwinism working its job on the ignorant as they own the outcome, not I. - Jocko - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 10:19 am: At what point are insurance providers (and Medicare) going to start limiting payouts for someone who contracts a preventable illness? I recall reading about a ‘reformed’ anti-vaxxer from Georgia getting a double lung transplant and thought “Who’s picking up his tab?” - ZC - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 10:20 am: Mandatory university mandates are a good thing, because a fair number of 18-23s aren’t so much anti-vaccination, as they are “eh, I’m not getting sick and dying from this thing” and real cases of long COVID aside, on the margins (so far) they’re mostly right. Their primary risk is to others, not to themselves. So just force them to get their shots, to access the full on-campus experience, and a lot of them will do it. There are, of course, exceptions. But to combat this thing, at this stage, you need a combination of carrots and sticks. - illinifan - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 10:38 am: 18-23 years have always been in the “it won’t be me” mode. Thus all the programs at school about drinking at driving and smashed cars in front of HS during prom. With this virus, we don’t have the luxury of time to get the message out. More mandates are needed but they need to be made by employers and business owners about who can access services. The level of distrust of the government and science in the Republican Party is at epic proportions and government mandates will just gin up more opposition. - 61820 - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 10:38 am: There is no meaningful sense in which the U of I mandate is a mandate. Anyone who chooses not to get vaccinated just has to continue to participate in the on-campus testing program. Policies prevent anyone from asking anyone about their vaccinations status. - Roadrager - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 10:46 am: ==Some Fox News hosts like Hannity thankfully are supporting vaccinations.== For about 20 seconds last night. What he did in the segments preceding and following those 20 seconds, and what he said to a larger audience on the radio earlier in the day, are something quite different. - JS Mill - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 10:49 am: =The cowardice of suburban school boards and superintendents in the face of criticism from the dumbest 20% of their parent population is something to behold.= I would be interested in seeing where you have the data to support your 20% assertion. More likely you pulled a number out of thin air. It isn’t cowardice, it is reflective of the state guidance that no longer mandates mask wearing and recommends it. Many of these “cowards” had their families threatened for following state guidance last year. Maybe you should try that. Since you are so brave, run for school board of go to college and get a teaching degree, then go get a masters degree so you can be an administrator, then go get an advanced degree or doctorate so you can be a superintendent. Then you can get paid to be abused by the general public, school boards, and have the safety of your family threatened. It is a blast. Should everyone that is not vaccinated in a school wear a mask? Yes, without a doubt and that is what people are being told to do. But mandating it is a completely different ballgame and you cannot fix stupid. The legal guidance we received is that we cannot require proof of vaccination from students. We have to bargain it to require it from staff. So yeah, it is as simple as calling people names. - TheInvisibleMan - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 11:02 am: === ‘We’re getting kids their freedom back’ === Short skirts and midriffs for every teenager in school who wants them. Wait… no. not like that. - Joe Bidenopolous - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 11:12 am: ===I have zero problem with darwinism working its job on the ignorant as they own the outcome, not I.== I’m somewhat sympathetic, but what of the immunocompromised, the allergic, and the children who cannot be vaccinated? We just say “oh well” and let them get it? I have kids under 12. I also have a colleague who has a 3 year old who spent three months in the hospital with COVID, so maybe I’m just not as cavalier about it as you are - Dee Lay - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 11:16 am: ==JS MILL== “It isn’t cowardice, it is reflective of the state guidance that no longer mandates mask wearing and recommends it.” Elementary School Districts are making masks optional where kids are not able to be vaccinated: https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2021/07/16/barrington-school-district-220-mask-policy/ Its cowardice or stupidity. ==61820== “Policies prevent anyone from asking anyone about their vaccinations status.” That’s not how HIPAA/disclosure works and U of I mandates vaccines for other diseases already so…. why not covid again? - Responsa - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 11:44 am: Odds are that the significant numbers of individuals in Chicagoland’s minority communities who are continuing to resist vaccination (and are impacting vaccination percentages) are not all Foxnews and Hannity listeners. Closing so many of the mass immunization sites seems incongruous when cases are rising again and might actually serve as a catalyst to pursuade hold-outs. - Pundent - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 11:46 am: I do worry about those that are unable to get the vaccine due to age or other health conditions. But we have to realize that for the other holdouts simply telling them to get a vaccine isn’t going to work. This is a group of individuals that is more intent on making a political statement than acknowledging science or considering their role in protecting society. Maybe we should consider a system whereby an otherwise healthy unvaccinated adult who contracts Covid pays a large portion of their medical costs. Maybe instead of the media reporting on their obstinance they can start covering their funerals? We have to move from commenting on behavior to showing the consequences that arise from it. - 61820 - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 11:48 am: ==Dee Lay== I know that’s not how HIPAA works, but that’s what the policy is. This is not HIPAA. This is university policy. U of I employees are not allowed to ask anyone (other employees, students) about vaccine status. Lots of information is linked to here: https://covid19.illinois.edu/vaccines-for-covid-19/ The most likely reason why U of I is not actually mandating the vaccine is that it is still under EUA and they were waiting for IBHE or Gov to take the lead. It will be interesting to see if this latest announcement changes policy, but at this point it is almost too late to actually require students to be vaccinated before classes start. - JS Mill - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 11:54 am: =Its cowardice or stupidity.= You need to look in the mirror, you will see all you want. For the second and final time- the state guidance and that comes from CDC and ILDPH is that masks are recommended and they also use the word “should” but it is not a mandate and they also recommend a layered approach. So maybe your gripe is with the ISBE. Schools are following them. - Jocko - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 12:12 pm: ==The most likely reason why U of I is not actually mandating the vaccine== I think UIUC (and other schools) are waiting to see how the lawsuit against IU plays out. https://tinyurl.com/3s4kv2yv - Illdoc - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 12:19 pm: IU won in federal court - Amurica - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 12:40 pm: That’s great IBHE is strongly encouraging the vaccine. However , does it really mean anything? There’s no mandate or enforcement behind it. Just reinforcing what the state has been pushing already. - Manchester - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 12:46 pm: Something to consider is that the current guidance may change again depending on how bad of a surge we get from the Delta variant and the continuing resistance to vaccines that is fueling Delta. Covid will continue to evolve and the vaccine resistance fuels the rise of new variants, any one of which could be one that gets past the vaccines. The Covidiots could easily be our undoing. - thisjustinagain - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 12:48 pm: Yes, Virginia, you CAN be ORDERED to be vaccinated; see the 1905 Supreme Court Jacobson v. Mass. ruling on the subject, where Massachusetts ordered smallpox vaccinations, and SCOTUS held they can be mandatory to stop an epidemic/pandemic. Still good law today, and cited in several cases upholding various laws and orders issued by states. But the politicians and the agencies are too afraid of losing votes and dealing with lawsuits to ORDER vaccinations and masks, so we’ll be fighting Covid for years, and losing more lives to this stupidity. - Leap Day William - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 1:18 pm: == Policies prevent anyone from asking anyone about their vaccinations status. == All students and staff at UI are required to use an app that is used to grant/deny building access which literally displays their vaccination status when it is used, but okay. - 61820 - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 1:26 pm: ==Leap Day William== No. The app shows whether you are cleared enter buildings, which can happen either if you are vaccinated or if you have a recent negative test in the system. There is a screen that shows whether a person is vaccinated, but students are instructed not to show that screen, and instructors are told not to ask to see it. Here is the relevant policy. https://covid19.illinois.edu/on-campus/on-campus-instructors/ “ To protect their private health information, you will not know which students are vaccinated. However, to implement COVID-related guidelines and policies affecting university operations, instructional faculty members may ask students in the classroom to show their Building Access Status in the Safer Illinois app or the Boarding Pass. If the status is “Granted” that means the student is compliant with the university’s COVID-19 policies–that is, the student either has had a university-approved COVID-19 vaccine or is in compliance with the on-campus COVID-19 testing program for unvaccinated students. Students should share only the Building Access Screen, which shows compliance without specifying whether it was through COVID-19 vaccination or regular on-campus testing. To protect personal health information, this screen does not say if a person is vaccinated or not. No university official, including faculty, may ask students why they are not vaccinated or any other questions seeking personal health information. ” - 61820 - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 1:31 pm: ==Leap Day William== The relevant policy is here, under “How will I know if my students are vaccinated.” Instructors are allowed only to ask for/look at the screen that says if building access is granted, which could be because the student has a recent negative test. They are not allowed to look at the screen that shows vaccine status. But okay. https://covid19.illinois.edu/on-campus/on-campus-instructors/ - thoughts matter - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 3:44 pm: I’m old enough to remember lining up for sugar cube polio vaccinations and smallpox vaccinations at school. I don’t remember bringing permission slips for those. For all the blustering about this vaccine, how is it different than any other vaccine that you are required to get to attend school or a required TB test for college ( which I had to do)? How is it different than vaccines before people can legally immigrate to the USA? It’s no more of a mandate than those, don’t take it / find a different job, homeschool or stay off the public transportation. Your choice - DuPage Saint - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 4:19 pm: Although the Republicans have a poor go get vaccinated record it is really not only Republican areas that are lagging. I am surprised how many need to still be vaccinated in Chicago and other major cities and it cannot all be because of lack of opportunity. i fear this is going to get a heck of a lot worse before it gets better. - The Dude - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 4:46 pm: I’m reading the comments. Might as well say this.”The government knows best. The government has the solution. The government is optimal for society. For the greater good.” What your witnessing is individual freedom being bled away. Your grandchildren will love the authoritarian society we created. Do you not realize how broken government is and how its bleeding into society. No mandates, incentives and education but no mandates. - Proud Papa Bear - Tuesday, Jul 20, 21 @ 7:58 pm: “ What your witnessing is individual freedom being bled away. Your grandchildren will love the authoritarian society we created.” Stripping away women’s rights to do what they need with their own bodies. Stripping away parents’ right to give their trans kids medically necessary treatments. Stripping away people’s rights to vote. Yes, the Republicans certainly are bleeding away our freedoms. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.