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Wirepoints president speaks at secessionist convention

Tuesday, Nov 15, 2022 - Posted by Rich Miller

* Effingham Daily News

Following the recent midterm election, some Illinoisans still feel as though the state is neglecting their interests.

The nonprofit Illinois organization, New Illinois, held its second constitution convention this weekend at the Thelma Keller Convention Center in Effingham. The organization has expressed its intention to break away from Chicago and some of its surrounding areas and establish a new state called New Illinois.

One of the convention’s main speakers was Ted Dabrowski, who is president of Wirepoints Incorporated, a nonprofit that independently researches Illinois’ economy and links it to certain political policies.

Throughout his speech, Dabrowski shared several of the organization’s statistics, most of which centered on educational funding and other educational statistics of public schools.

* Center Square

“We don’t use the word secession because that’s not what this is, it’s legally something different,” said G.H. Merritt, chair of the nonpartisan organization New Illinois. “We are trying to form a new state, and we’re not trying to kick Chicago out of Illinois, we’re trying to kick ourselves out of Illinois.”

Only Congress has the power to create new states, but there has never been a formal agreement on how the process should take place.

Merritt said a driving force behind the expanding movement is that many southern Illinoisans want to be heard regarding issues that affect the state as a whole.

“You have this movement in Illinois, you have it in California, you have it in New York, you have it in Colorado, it’s because the people in the rural areas don’t have a meaningful voice in the government,” Merritt said.

She said a resolution is expected to be filed in January to begin the process.

       

109 Comments »
  1. - Ron Burgundy - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:00 am:

    -She said a resolution is expected to be filed in January to begin the process.-

    File whatever you want. The funny part about this, and yes the idea is funny, is that they think whatever bad statistics they come up with will get better from this stupid idea, instead of much worse without Chicago’s money.


  2. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:01 am:

    Harold Hill had to go town to town to get his marks.

    Same thing.

    How embarrassing is it for Ted Dabrowski to be speaking where such lunacy is celebrated.

    What’s next, birthday parties?


  3. - Ducky LaMoore - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:03 am:

    “Merritt said a driving force behind the expanding movement is that many southern Illinoisans want to be heard regarding issues that affect the state as a whole.”

    An area of the state that supported Rod Blagojevich and Bruce Rauner wants to know why we don’t listen to them? /s


  4. - vern - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:07 am:

    Sounds like they haven’t yet learned any lessons from the midterm. The kook welfare circuit continues apace.


  5. - Trap - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:07 am:

    “We’ve learned nothing.” Sincerely, Effingham


  6. - Dysfunction Junction - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:08 am:

    There are already two methods of achieving your goal, Ted. They are called “Remax” and “U-Haul.” Indiana state line is only an hour from Effingham. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.


  7. - Riversidian - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:10 am:

    Don’t make me tap the map again…

    https://capitolfax.com/2022/11/10/despite-darren-bailey-dropping-the-idea-a-handful-of-people-still-want-to-secede-from-illinois/


  8. - Pundent - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:10 am:

    =people in the rural areas don’t have a meaningful voice in the government=

    Sure they do. What they object to is their minority status and inability to impose their personal values and beliefs on others. Their energy would be far better placed on moving to a state that’s more aligned with their views. There are several to choose from.


  9. - Bruce( no not him) - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:11 am:

    Might just be easier to move to another state, than to create your own.


  10. - The Opinions Bureau - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:14 am:

    “The proposed borderline would also give New Illinois access to Lake Michigan, which Mulch said will help the new state’s economy.”

    Funny how that would work out. Can’t wait for them to learn about the Great Lakes Compact.


  11. - Anyone Remember - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:14 am:

    ” … it’s because the people in the rural areas don’t have a meaningful voice in the government … .”

    What part of “one man one vote” don’t they understand? Or do they support the late Sen. Dirksen’s opposition to Reynolds v. Sims?


  12. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:14 am:

    - Riversidian -

    Huh? Yeah. Ok…

    Rural America is dying. It’s sad, but true.

    Rural America can’t keep their own children in Rural America.

    You’re aggrieved, I know I get it, what they seemingly don’t get is they are the past, and unless they evolve… the old angry white rural will dissolve


  13. - Rabid - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:14 am:

    Kick yourself out of Illinois, get your kicks on route 66


  14. - Kippax Blue - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:15 am:

    And take Brown County and the Tracys with you


  15. - P. - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:15 am:

    They getting enough work writing for the Chicago City Wire and Cook County Journal?


  16. - Norseman - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:15 am:

    A lot of political operatives are making hay by playing off of the counterfactual feelings of people.


  17. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:15 am:

    Ted Dabrowski goes to Effingham. If the people won’t follow you, then you have to follow the people wherever you can find them.

    The stupid makes my head hurt.


  18. - TheInvisibleMan - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:18 am:

    Just tell these people we created a new state for them already. It’s not like they are going to be smart enough to figure it out.

    They want to be told lies to make them feel better. Why stop now?


  19. - Sir Reel - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:19 am:

    What about people in the rural areas who like things the way they are? Do they get to form their own micro mini states? I can see it now, every property owner gets their own state.


  20. - Techie - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:19 am:

    @Pundent

    “=people in the rural areas don’t have a meaningful voice in the government=

    Sure they do. What they object to is their minority status and inability to impose their personal values and beliefs on others. Their energy would be far better placed on moving to a state that’s more aligned with their views. There are several to choose from.”

    Nailed it. They have as much of a voice as they have people. And the irony is that Pritzker seems to be paying a fair amount of attention to rural areas, at least inasmuch as building and repairing infrastructure.


  21. - OneMan - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:20 am:

    Out of curiosity, since they like to use the state map and how counties voted, can we give them state pension debt using square miles to divide things?


  22. - Demoralized - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:20 am:

    These people have a fundamental misunderstanding of democracy.


  23. - Cheswick - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:21 am:

    They can ask, but it’s not gonna happen. In the meantime, to keep them occupied, tell them get in line behind Washington DC and Puerto Rico. They can try to form a camaraderie with them. (As if that would ever happen.)


  24. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:23 am:

    ===people in the rural areas don’t have a meaningful voice in the government===

    They have the powerhouse “Eastern Bloc”

    They’re a juggernaut, a force in the GA, “nothing happens in Illinois until the Eastern Bloc has their say”, amirite?


  25. - Lynn S. - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:30 am:

    @OneMan:

    If they don’t like your proposal to divide pension debt by number of road miles, would you be willing to work with me on a proposal to divide pension debt by acres of land?


  26. - Groucho - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:31 am:

    “New Illinois” is a terrible name. They need to work on that.


  27. - Bruce( no not him) - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:32 am:

    ===Do they get to form their own micro mini states?===
    You get a state, you get a state, everyone gets a state.
    Thanks, Oprah


  28. - Lincoln Lad - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:37 am:

    On another, but similar track - states like Wyoming and South Dakota have fewer residents than DuPage County, yet they each get two senators. Talk about unfair… and that’s just one county in Illinois… there are likely a hundred or two more across the country.


  29. - Dirty Red - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:39 am:

    Ted Dabrowski? V.P. of Policy during the budget impasse despite not understanding how appropriations and vouchering works, Ted Dabrowski?

    This tracks.


  30. - Jerry - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:42 am:

    Downstate Illinois gets a lot of help from Chicago. Look at the Prison Industrial Complex. Good jobs with good benefits. The incarcerated DO count as part of the population.


  31. - Chicago 20 - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:43 am:

    - “New Illinois” is a terrible name. They need to work on that.”

    How about Poor Illinois?


  32. - Bruce( no not him) - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:43 am:

    === The proposed borderline would also give New Illinois access to Lake Michigan, ===
    This confuses me. My map looks like pretty much the border to Lake Michigan is in Cook County and Lake County.
    Are they going to annex Gary, Indiana?


  33. - Give Me A Break - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:47 am:

    “people in the rural areas don’t have a meaningful voice in the government”

    So the Effingham County Board and City Government are made up of outsiders? Did they let Cook County residents win offices and govern them from Chicago?


  34. - Just Me 2 - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:49 am:

    They want to be “heard”? Don’t they have legislators who can speak for them? Maybe their legislators should spend more time working and less time yelling and being social media influencers.


  35. - Paddyrollingstone - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:49 am:

    To paraphrase Montgomery C. Burns:

    Whoa, slow down there maestro. There’s a NEW Illinois?”


  36. - Stormsw7706 - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:53 am:

    Does he mean the welfare state south of I-70 that currently exists ? He might be better of trying to count each vote south of I-70 as 500 votes. Still wouldn’t change anything. If they did leave maybe the real State of Illinois could close Choate and build a new facility. Finally, I love this state and am proud we are finally on the right track. Just move. You won’t be missed


  37. - Roadrager - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:53 am:

    ==“We are trying to form a new state, and we’re not trying to kick Chicago out of Illinois, we’re trying to kick ourselves out of Illinois.”==

    Go on then, git.

    Anyone have an image of this “New Illinois” map proposal? Because it sounds hilarious.


  38. - Homebody - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:55 am:

    If it weren’t for the fact that it would further make the US Senate even more anti-democratic, I’d say let them go.


  39. - JoanP - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:56 am:

    @ Bruce( no not him) -

    According to their website, they want all counties other than Cook to be part of New Illinois.

    They should probably rename their proposed state “Fantasyland”.


  40. - 48th Ward Heel - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:57 am:

    ===The proposed borderline would also give New Illinois access to Lake Michigan, which Mulch said will help the new state’s economy.===

    Hoo boy, where to start with this?

    Given the results of the most recent election, good luck getting Lake County to go along with this, and even if you did are you sure you want that ~700,000 population voting in your pumpkin republic? If you think they’re blue up there now wait till they’re openly being used as a cash cow for Coles County and paying state-line tolls on the Edens.

    And if you kick out Chicago, you lose direct control over the Illinois Waterway’s points of access to the Great Lakes, which you may remember as the entire point of Chicago being included in Illinois when it became a state. At least you’d still be getting that sweet fed funding for the Naval Station Great Lakes.


  41. - Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:57 am:

    These people should try to benefit from big federal and state bipartisan infrastructure investments in their areas, instead of whining. Don’t they want a state that invests in them? Do they want to live in dirt just to spite those they despise?

    This is a better time for the state because the financial situation has improved, big investments, funded budgets, etc. May downstate prosper, despite the haters.


  42. - Cool Papa Bell - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:58 am:

    =Dabrowski shared several of the organization’s statistics, most of which centered on educational funding and other educational statistics of public schools.=

    Didn’t Bailey want to send less money to schools?


  43. - Jocko - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:59 am:

    ==New Illinois, held its second constitution convention this weekend==

    If you want to have a Hunger Games/Divergent cosplay, just label it as such.


  44. - Lucky Pierre - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 10:01 am:

    When JB was a candidate he promised to veto a map drawn by politicians that would be partisan and disenfranchise the minority party.

    Sounds like a fundamental misunderstanding of democracy letting politicians pick their voters instead of the other way around.

    He broke his word to these people who are venting their frustration just like a democrats would if the shoe was on the other foot .

    See Wisconsin Democrats foot stomping but Wisconsin Republicans made no such promise for fair maps

    They also lost two Republican congressmen

    https://apnews.com/article/census-2020-voting-rights-government-and-politics-8c6cd4a7d855215db5f141abb6ce43f4


  45. - Suburbanon - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 10:10 am:

    Have we forgotten Forgottonia!


  46. - Cheswick - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 10:12 am:

    Groucho, here is a suggested name: New Jeisy


  47. - vern - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 10:13 am:

    === hey want all counties other than Cook to be part of New Illinois===

    That would still be a pretty blue-leaning state I think. Lake, Blupage, Kane, Will, Rock Island, Champaign, Peoria and Winnebago counties aren’t quite what these clowns think they are.


  48. - MisterJayEm - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 10:14 am:

    ““New Illinois” is a terrible name. They need to work on that.”

    Illibama.

    – MrJM


  49. - We’ll See - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 10:15 am:

    == “New Illinois” is a terrible name. They need to work on that.==

    Since their proposed 51st state will be south of Illinois (for the most part) it should be called Southern Illinois. — folks in central and western Illinois will love it. /s


  50. - Costanza - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 10:17 am:

    I swear this was a Family Guy episode…


  51. - No Mas - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 10:20 am:

    Oddly, Ted and Wirepoints are held by the many media outlets to be economic authorities, developing policies that are good for the state. But when you pull the curtain away, it is clear they are nothing more than political hacks, or worse, paid from partisan funding to create chaos and to tear up our state.


  52. - Stuck in Celliniland - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 10:29 am:

    ==Are they going to annex Gary, Indiana?==

    The new state should also be required to invade Missouri and annex St. Louis. Since both “old” and “new” Illinoisans seem to consider STL as an honorary part of Illinois.


  53. - DuPage Guy - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 10:32 am:

    From the FAQ on the New Illinois website about why they want everything but Cook County rather than just Downstate,

    “We have been told by financial experts that, by itself, the southern 1/3 of the counties would not be viable as a state in terms of population and economy. Including as much of the state as possible gives the state split movement the best chance of success. If all 101 counties outside of Cook join the new state, it would have a population and an economy exceeding that of Indiana.”

    Even they realize they can’t sustain themselves.


  54. - P. - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 10:35 am:

    Frothing right wingers by day, happy to provide the mandatory sober “both sides” perspective to legitimate news outlets by night.


  55. - Suburban Mom - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 10:41 am:

    ===“New Illinois” is a terrible name. They need to work on that.===

    “IlliNEW” is right there


  56. - Ron Burgundy - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 10:52 am:

    -“We have been told by financial experts that, by itself, the southern 1/3 of the counties would not be viable as a state in terms of population and economy.”-

    Have they been told that the rest of the state doesn’t want anything to do with them?


  57. - Dysfunction Junction - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 11:05 am:

    They have no idea what the collar counties think of this thinking. I grew up there, I do. Heck, I live in Sangamon now and I don’t think I could find five people here that would want to be part of Illibamiana. Who exactly is the target audience for this drivel?


  58. - TJ - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 11:06 am:

    Anyone that wants to split up Illinois can bite me.


  59. - Friendly Bob Adams - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 11:09 am:

    At least Forgottonia had a clever name. And the map sorta kinda looked like a smaller version of Illinois.

    These current guys don’t have a clue. They will of course soon be forgotten.


  60. - Cable Line Beer Gardener - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 11:15 am:

    that they held the convention in F-ing ham is priceless.


  61. - Politix - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 11:22 am:

    =people in the rural areas don’t have a meaningful voice in the government=

    Do rural folks not have legislative representation? Stop the whining. Get engaged. Elect people who know how to be effective.


  62. - SOIL M - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 11:27 am:

    This is, once again a ridiculous distraction that is brought to you by grifters. Wasting time and money on something that will never happen helps no one. But it’s easier to get people to sit around and whine about things they don’t like than it is to get them to work to improve on those things.
    Try putting your time and effort into something that will actually have some positive effect on your community.


  63. - Excitable Boy - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 11:27 am:

    - Illibama. -

    I think Illissippi would be more fitting.


  64. - Pundent - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 11:39 am:

    =This is a better time for the state because the financial situation has improved, big investments, funded budgets, etc. May downstate prosper, despite the haters.=

    A very astute observation. These are economically challenged areas and the trend is not their friend. This may be their last chance to reverse their fortunes and the state may finally be in a position to provide some meaningful support. But if their elected officials do nothing but feed their grievances and stoke hatred over “Chicago values” time will simply march on without them.


  65. - Demoralized - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 11:39 am:

    And also, LP, what in the world does a “gerrymandered” map have to do with the Democrats winning all - yes all - statewide offices. You’ve never addressed that issue. Again, do better (though I doubt you can).


  66. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 11:40 am:

    ===When JB was a candidate he promised to veto a map drawn by politicians that would be partisan and disenfranchise the minority party.

    Sounds like a fundamental misunderstanding of democracy letting politicians pick their voters instead of the other way around.===

    Is this why you supported Darren Bailey?

    The voters still elected Pritzker, so there’s that too.


  67. - AFSCME Steward - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 11:44 am:

    Demoralized

    A statewide count is completely different from gerrymandering. The Democrats control of the house, senate & U.S. house seats does not fairly represent the people in rural parts of Illinois. That is why they are angry & is a major factor in driving extremism.


  68. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 11:46 am:

    ===Democrats winning all - yes all - statewide offices. You’ve never addressed that issue.===

    - LP - is dishonest to analysis, as much as - LP - is dishonest to the support to Bailey and Trump.

    … and yet, if you read - LP -, you know he supports Bailey and Trump… but is wholly embarrassed to outright admit it.


  69. - Demoralized - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 11:46 am:

    ==does not fairly represent the people in rural parts of Illinois.==

    Cry me a river. We elect representatives to represent people, not areas. The majority of those people want Democrats elected apparently. What these people want is to whine and take their ball and go home because they can’t get what they want through the ballot box. If they don’t like it they are free to move somewhere else.


  70. - Excitable Boy - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 11:49 am:

    - See Wisconsin Democrats foot stomping -

    Does that mean we can trade Effingham for Madison? I’m all for that.

    Or is it just more generic whataboutism from the most chronic whiner to have ever posted on this blog? I feel bad for whatever republican signs your paycheck, you bring nothing to the table.


  71. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 11:49 am:

    ===The Democrats control of the house, senate & U.S. house seats does not fairly represent the people in rural parts of Illinois.===

    … and yet… the maps meet the Voting Rights Act asks, according to the Court.

    Weird.


  72. - AFSCME Steward - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 11:56 am:

    Demoralized

    You are wrong. The Democrats gerrymandered all of the districts in Illinois to increase the number of seats they have & dilute GOP voices. Period. That is why rural residents want to leave. This is why gerrymandering should be illegal. People in each area of the state should have their voices equally heard. Illinois might be a blue state, but it is not 12 of 15 U.S. house seats blue. The districts were drawn to create super majorities for the Democrats even though Democrats are not a super majority in the state. We a new constitutional amendment like Ohio has that requires districts to be drawn based on past election numbers.


  73. - JS Mill - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 11:57 am:

    ==people in the rural areas don’t have a meaningful voice in the government==

    =When JB was a candidate he promised to veto a map drawn by politicians that would be partisan and disenfranchise the minority party.=

    =The Democrats control of the house, senate & U.S. house seats does not fairly represent the people in rural parts of Illinois. That is why they are angry & is a major factor in driving extremism.=

    I live in rural Illinois and my voice is definitely not heard…by my local, house, and senate electeds. They whine and cry about about mostly imagined grievances, when I share my view point (which is often different than theirs and focused on getting things dones versus wasting time complaining) I am dismissed out of hand. Ok, thems the brakes. I love living in the country so I accept it and do what I can at the ballot box.

    The bleating about the map is sad. The “map” is not unfair. It is a map, and if you want to get elected, appeal to most of the voters if not all.

    LP’s one note tuba that now only plays a tunes about the maps tells you he is not to be taken seriously. Excuses, and finger pointing rather than actually listening to the overwhelming majority of voters. Sad indeed.


  74. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 11:58 am:

    ===People in each area of the state should have their voices equally heard===

    Explain the Voting Rights Act


  75. - AFSCME Steward - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 11:58 am:

    OW

    You are right. I am troubled that the courts have mostly refused to address this issue. With computer technology, gerrymandering is easier than ever.

    “and yet… the maps meet the Voting Rights Act asks, according to the Court.”

    Weird.


  76. - Demoralized - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:00 pm:

    ==That is why rural residents want to leave. ==

    Bye.


  77. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:02 pm:

    ===I am troubled that the courts have mostly refused to address this issue.===

    The courts are actually fine with gerrymandering.

    The sliver to how far is the oddity.

    The Illinois maps met the VRA.


  78. - AFSCME Steward - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:03 pm:

    OW
    The voting rights act is not what this is about. Gerrymandering is a deliberate attempt by one party to seize control over more districts than they are entitled to. The voters always have the final say, but when districts are unfairly drawn, the vote is not reflective of the population as a whole.

    “Explain the Voting Rights Act


  79. - York - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:05 pm:

    lol. Still baffled as to how Wirepoints qualifies as a 501c3.


  80. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:05 pm:

    ===The voting rights act is not what this is about.===

    How can it not be?

    Taking seats to make them more old angry and white the map will need to disenfranchise minorities, as Republicans don’t attract minority voters to form their majorities.


  81. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:07 pm:

    The only reason the GOP has had presidents in the white house in the last three decades is the electoral college aka the rural voice.


  82. - AFSCME Steward - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:12 pm:

    OW

    The issue isn’t racial. It is how the boundaries are being drawn. The districts are being created in a manner that virtually assures Democratic victories. They are being created to dilute GOP representation. Districts should be created by a neutral party that takes into account all of the requirements in the Voting Rights Act. Illinois isn’t the only state doing in. It’s happening in many states, some by the GOP. Gerrymandering needs to end. Districts should not be created by those that have a vested interest in the election’s outcome.


  83. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:16 pm:

    ===The issue isn’t racial.===

    That’s utterly delusional, LOL

    “She-Caw-Go” in Eastern Bloc-land is racial.

    ===Districts should be created by a neutral party that takes into account all of the requirements in the Voting Rights Act. ===

    Pass a bill

    The VRA was specifically designed for representation that would be diluted, party notwithstanding, as (a) minority group(s) fought the first maps, and their own party.


  84. - New Day - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:18 pm:

    This is an awesome idea for those of us in Northern IL. Taxes would drop. Services would be better. It’s great. And Mississippi would love it because they’d no longer be the poorest state in the nation. Win Win.


  85. - New Day - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:19 pm:

    So can we stop paying any attention to Ted now?


  86. - AFSCME Steward - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:19 pm:

    OW
    The problem is the courts have become more & more politicized. Here in Cook County, we were bombarded with continuous ads for Supreme Court Justices. The candidates were espousing political opinions on issues that might come before the court. Look at what the U.S. Supreme Court has become. I often wonder what James Madison would think of our courts today. There is more & more personal political opinion & less and less jurisprudence.

    “The courts are actually fine with gerrymandering.

    The sliver to how far is the oddity.

    The Illinois maps met the VRA.”


  87. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:24 pm:

    ===Gerrymandering needs to end===

    And for that you’re gonna need a different US Supreme Court or a change to the US Constitution.

    Right now, you can’t convince Democrats to do remap reform when the reforms in D states probably cost the party control of the US House when GOP states went to the extreme on their maps (like Illinois did).

    If Rauner had been even a halfway decent governor, he might’ve been reelected and would’ve vetoed the maps and that might’ve stuck. I dunno. But this ain’t a sophomore dorm.

    Focus on what can be done. Stop supporting candidates who make your party’s situation even worse. Only 15 percent of Republican primary voters supported the lone non-Trump candidate, despite $62 million spent by his campaign. 15 percent. $439 a vote.


  88. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:28 pm:

    ===I often wonder what James Madison would think of our courts today===

    I think James Madison was a slave owner.

    He’d likely think minority representation isn’t white land owners… or women

    Try again.


  89. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:29 pm:

    ===The problem is the courts have become more & more politicized===

    Five justices said during their confirmation hearings that Roe was settled law.

    “Anything else”?


  90. - AFSCME Steward - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:32 pm:

    Rich

    I’m not a GOP, I’m an independent. I have only voted for 1 Republican in the last 3 elections. I normally split my ticket. The GOP extremism has driven me away. I want a fairer system so that I have better choices. I fully understand the Dems desire to keep control & the increasing politically motivated court system, both in the state & the U.S. But, if no one speaks up, nothing changes.


  91. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:35 pm:

    ===I fully understand the Dems desire to keep control & the increasing politically motivated court system, both in the state & the U.S.===

    Didn’t you just “both sides” this in an above comment?

    Lemme find it…


  92. - ArchPundit - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:36 pm:

    ==nly Congress has the power to create new states, but there has never been a formal agreement on how the process should take place.

    The state being altered has a say as well. The Constitution thing these people always talk about has the details.


  93. - AFSCME Steward - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:36 pm:

    OW
    My very point. They were appointed, not to uphold the law, but to change it. The courts have become more & more a super legislative body & less judicial. This is not what the courts were supposed to be. It is being done by both parties.

    “Five justices said during their confirmation hearings that Roe was settled law.

    “Anything else”?”


  94. - JS Mill - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:38 pm:

    =the increasing politically motivated court system=

    Spoiler alert, the courts have ALWAYS been political.


  95. - AFSCME Steward - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:39 pm:

    OW

    You have this idea that I am a MAGA Republican. I am not. I did not vote for a single GOP candidate in any race. I am an independent that is fed up with both sides.


  96. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:40 pm:

    ===They were appointed, not to uphold the law, but to change it.===

    They are strict constitutionalists, yet they said they believed Roe was settled law.

    I can’t help Illinois voters don’t believe a Republican running for ILSC is pro-choice… “vote accordingly”

    Women don’t trust Republicans with women’s health issues.

    What, now “the voters got it wrong”… that’s very Madison, “these folks shouldn’t be able to vote at all”


  97. - AFSCME Steward - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:40 pm:

    JS Mill
    Not to the extent they are now

    “Spoiler alert, the courts have ALWAYS been political.”


  98. - Jibba - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:41 pm:

    Personally I think Dixienois is a great name, but this downstater wants to go with Cook, thank you.

    Everywhere in the US do we have situations where there is a sizable minority who gets shut out of most representation, at some level of government (local, state, federal). I’ve lived through it, so until the USSC changes on gerrymandering, deal with it. You just can’t split the states up into enough pieces to satisfy everyone.


  99. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:43 pm:

    ===You have this idea===

    No I don’t.

    You want old angry white disenfranchised rural voters to have a say, and yet this map meets the criteria of the VRA which seemingly disenfranchised Republicans because in reality how many “minority-majority” districts can old angry white rural folks see as “the same” to them?

    I read fine.

    Thanks.


  100. - ArchPundit - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:43 pm:

    We may be able to end gerrymandering through federal law–depending on what the Court would then do (remember Congress can restrict the Court’s ability to review laws). AFSCME Steward, by voting Dem is doing the best thing federally to end gerrymandering. A Dem majority is likely to include restrictions on gerrymandering in a voting rights bill.

    One minor quibble about state legislative seats–the Illinois legislature could end gerrymandering for those while allowing US House gerrymandering to continue until there is a nationwide solution.


  101. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:46 pm:

    ===the Illinois legislature could end gerrymandering for those===

    60-30-1.

    Let’s move along.


  102. - AFSCME Steward - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:49 pm:

    OW

    I do not want “angry old white voters” to have their fair say. I want all of Illinois to be fairly represented. If they were, maybe the extremism wouldn’t exist, or be lessened. If seats weren’t safe, maybe more moderate candidates would emerge. Right now, there are few moderates anywhere. They have been replaced by extreme voices from each party. Nothing gets done because everyone is screaming at each other. Compromise has become a swear word. Gerrymandering is a big part of the problem.


  103. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:51 pm:

    - AFSCME Steward -

    I’ve moved on, as our host asked.

    Thanks.


  104. - OW - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:52 pm:

    Good having a debate


  105. - ArchPundit - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:54 pm:

    ==Let’s move along.

    I don’t have any expectation they will, but I think the criticism of Dems on this issue at the state level is fair. It’s fixable by them and they aren’t putting the national party at risk by unilateral disarmament. The only potential cost would be the supermajority though it might still be close with ‘fair’ maps.


  106. - ArchPundit - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 12:55 pm:

    Sorry, I continued it–I had a thought that was bugging me and misread what Rich said.


  107. - Not Your Gramma - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 5:31 pm:

    No voice for rural folks? I thought that’s what the Senate was…


  108. - Former Wheaton Resident Living in CA - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:18 pm:

    Well, isn’t Mississippi or Alabama there for these folks to migrate to?
    There are many still politically conservative former Confederate states to choose from.


  109. - Former Wheaton Resident Living in CA - Tuesday, Nov 15, 22 @ 9:34 pm:

    The problem with these folks is that let’s say the State of Illinois was able to attract a major semiconductor corporation like Intel to build their $20 billion fabs in a chronically economically depressed area like southern Illinois to lift up their local economy, tens of thousands of far more educated people will move into the local area from within the US and abroad that essentially the area will get politically taken over by Democratic Party leaning new residents.
    Just for the record, Ohio got the Intel fabs.
    I doubt the local conservative white people have the right attitude to work in cleanrooms even if Intel pays $70K / year.
    Basically, they want wealth for nothing.
    They are descendents of uneducated peasants from Europe (via American South) complaining about the modern world.
    They should get over it.


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