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Reaction rolls in to concealed carry ruling

Tuesday, Dec 11, 2012

* Attorney General Lisa Madigan…

“The court gave 180 days before its decision will be returned to the lower court
to be implemented. As our office reviews what legal steps can be taken, that
time period enables the legislature to consider whether it wants to take
action.”

* Second Amendment Foundation…

The Second Amendment Foundation has won a huge victory for the right to bear arms outside the home, with a ruling in the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals that declares the right to self-defense is “broader than the right to have a gun in one’s home.”

The case of Moore v. Madigan, with Judge Richards Posner writing for the majority, gives the Illinois legislature 180 days to craft a new gun law that will impose reasonable limitations, consistent with the public safety and the Second Amendment…on the carrying of guns in public.”

“We are very happy with Judge Posner’s majority opinion,” said SAF founder and Executive Vice President Alan M. Gottlieb. “This is a victory for Illinois citizens who have been long denied a right recognized in the other 49 states; to have the means necessary for self-defense outside the home.

“In the broader sense,” he added, “this ruling affirms that the right to keep and bear arms, itself, extends beyond the boundary of one’s front door. This is a huge victory for the Second Amendment.”

“The Second Amendment,” Judge Posner writes, “states in its entirety that ‘a well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.’ The right to ‘bear’ as distinct from the right to ‘keep’ arms is unlikely to refer to the home. To speak of ‘bearing’ arms within one’s home would at all times have been an awkward usage. A right to bear arms thus implies a right to carry a loaded gun outside the home.

Later, Judge Posner adds, “To confine the right to be armed to the home is to divorce the Second Amendment from the right of self-defense described in Heller and McDonald.”

“That the court will give Illinois lawmakers six months to craft a law allowing carry outside the home recognizes that the right to bear arms means what it says,” Gottlieb concluded. “The ball is now in the Legislature’s court, and we eagerly wait to see how well they can live up to their responsibility.”

* Illinois State Rifle Association…

URGENT ALERT – YOUR IMMEDIATE ACTION REQUIRED

7TH CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS DIRECTS ILLINOIS GENERAL ASSEMBLY TO PASS CONCEALED CARRY BILL

BOTTOM LINE UP FRONT:

The 7th Circuit Court of Appeals has rendered a decision in the Shepard/Moore v. Madigan case that states that Illinois’ ban on concealed carry is unconstitutional. The court further directs the legislature to pass a concealed carry bill within 180 days. Although the announcement of this court ruling would appear to be good news for self-defense advocates, it is really nothing more than the first volley in what will be a heated battle to preserve and protect our gun rights. The gun control movement, headed by Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan, will be introducing a concealed carry bill of their own for the sole purpose of satisfying the court order. Madigan’s bill is sure to be a sham that will be so restrictive and impractical that only very few Illinois citizens would even qualify for a carry permit – most citizens would remain unprotected from criminals. Information obtained from within the Madigan organization indicates that the anti-gunners will piggyback an “assault weapons” ban and other onerous gun control legislation on the concealed carry bill. In order to prevent Madigan from hijacking concealed carry, Illinois gun owners need to step up and let their voices be heard on this issue.

HERE IS WHAT YOU NEED TO DO TO GET A GOOD CONCEALED CARRY BILL PASSED:

1. Contact your State Representative and State Senator. Politely advise them that you are a law-abiding firearm owner and that you support the court of appeals decision in the Shepard case. Politely advise them that you want them to vote against any sham concealed carry bill that Lisa Madigan will try to push. Politely tell them that you want them to vote for HB 148, the Family and Personal Protection Act. Advise them that you will not support any concealed carry bill that contains provisions that would discourage the average citizen from seeking a carry permit such as exorbitant fees, impossible training requirements, or excessive red tape. Advise them that you will only support a “clean” concealed carry bill that does not try to sneak through gun control schemes. If you do not know who your State Representative and/or State Senator is, please visit the Illinois State Board of Elections website link here.

2. Pass this alert along to your family and friends. Encourage them to contact their representatives as well.

3. Post this alert to any and all internet blogs or bulletin boards to which you may belong.

* Sen. John Sullivan…

“I am extremely pleased with today’s decision and could not agree more that the time has come for Illinois to join the 49 other states where it’s legal to carry a gun for self-defense in a public place,” Sen. Sullivan said. “I look forward to working with my colleagues to draft a law that finally respects Illinoisans’ Second Amendment rights and makes our state a safer place for law-abiding citizens.”

Illinois law currently prohibits carrying a loaded weapon outside one’s own home, with exceptions for hunters, law enforcement officers and a few other types of individuals. Following the United States Supreme Court’s lead, the appeals court in a 2-1 decision declared that the right to bear arms includes a right to self-defense and that people need to defend themselves and their families in a variety of settings, not just in their homes. The court suggested some restrictions would still be permissible but unequivocally stated that Illinois may no longer remain the last hold-out in the nationwide movement to allow concealed carry.

* Sen. Bill Brady…

“The court’s welcome ruling today is a recognition that law-abiding citizens in Illinois have a right to defend and protect themselves, just as the citizens of the 49 other states do. In today’s society, men and women should have an opportunity to be as safe on the streets as they are in their own homes.”

“I have consistently supported measures to allow our citizens to carry concealed weapons and will work with my colleagues in the legislature to write a responsible law that meets that goal as well as to provide for safe enforcement of it. I would hope that all Illinois officials use their energy to craft a concealed carry law with appropriate safeguards that will make Illinois the model for implementation of concealed carry laws, rather than using those resources to appeal today’s ruling.”

* Congressman Joe Walsh…

“This ruling is a victory for Illinois residents and will give them the constitutional right to defend themselves, as has been established in every other state in the country,” Walsh said. “Illinois has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country and yet crime rates have soared, including a 49% jump in shootings in Chicago this past November. The right to possess and carry weapons is enshrined in our Constitution, and I am glad that this has been recognized by the Federal Courts.”

Walsh has been on the front lines of the Second Amendment debate. In June, Walsh and three other Members of the Illinois delegation sent a letter to Governor Pat Quinn urging him to give residents their constitutional right to protect and defend themselves.

“I respect the right of gun ownership, and I will remain steadfast in protecting all Americans’ Second Amendment right to bear arms.”

* State Rep. Jason Barickman…

“This court decision reinforces what many of us downstate have advocated for years; that our Second Amendment rights do not simply disappear when we step outside our home,” said Rep. Barickman. “I would hope that this opinion paves the way for a vote on a conceal carry measure during the upcoming lame duck session that will commence January 3rd.”

* From the Daily Herald

Lawmakers like state Sen. Terry Link, who vehemently opposed concealed carry, are already asking Attorney General Lisa Madigan to appeal.

“First of all, I hope they appeal it,” Link, a Waukegan Democrat, said. “Let’s get a true ruling on it.”

Supporters of concealed carry, though, say the other side might be hesitant to appeal because a U.S. Supreme Court ruling on Illinois’ case could loosen other states’ restrictions nationwide.

State Rep. Ed Sullivan, a Mundelein Republican, called the ruling “historic” and said now the sides have to negotiate what kinds of fees, training and restrictions a concealed carry law in Illinois should include.

“Those of us that support the 2nd Amendment are glad this came down, finally,” Sullivan said.

* AP

House Majority Leader Barbara Flynn Currie, a longtime gun control advocate, said she hoped the state would appeal the ruling. But Currie also said lawmakers must “get cracking” on how to respond to the ruling and begin parsing its key points.

Currie, D-Chicago, said that “justices surely do not mean that we would have to have wide-open” laws in Illinois. She said Illinois must now look at what other states are doing, such as disallowing guns in day-care centers and other locations.

“If we need to change the law, let us at least craft a law that is very severely constrained and narrowly tailored so that we don’t invite guns out of control on each of our city’s streets,” Currie said. “I don’t want people out of control wandering the streets with guns that are out of control.”

* Greg Hinz

I’d look for an appeal to the Supremes. Meanwhile, the majority opinion indicated that Illinois might be able to require only “open carry” weapons — weapons carried, say, in an open holster. Just like in Dodge City.

That will be good for holster makers. And, just like in Dodge, for hearse and coffin manufacturers, too.

- Posted by Rich Miller        


55 Comments
  1. - amalia - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 3:33 pm:

    you know how conservatives are always complaining about judicial activism? wonder if that applies now.


  2. - wishbone - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 3:35 pm:

    Oh happy day! Rahm and Pat Quinn and all the other hypocritical Illinois pols who surround themselves and their families with armed security, and then deny that same right to the masses are foaming at the mouth over this common sense decision. They will do everything in their power to maintain their monopoly on self protection.


  3. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 3:35 pm:

    –“I am extremely pleased with today’s decision and could not agree more that the time has come for Illinois to join the 49 other states where it’s legal to carry a gun for self-defense in a public place,” Sen. Sullivan said.–

    Seriously, how hard is it to get this right? Is it that complex.

    The 49 states are quite different on this issue.


  4. - Skeeter - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 3:36 pm:

    Joe Walsh sounds more calm and rational than Greg Hinz.

    That’s a first.

    Of course, it is probably a first that Walsh has sounded more calm and rational than anybody.


  5. - IMHO - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 3:40 pm:

    Wordslinger -

    Yes, they are, but Illinois is the only state with no provision for the general public to carry a concealed weapon in a public place. The generalization is certainly warranted. Of course we could go the NYC route and give out very few permits, but that’s still legally very different from what we have on the books now.


  6. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 3:45 pm:

    Not sure why Joe Walsh’s two cents was included, since he won’t be voting on any Illinois legislation. I guess the equally relevant Judy Biggert and Don Manzullo didn’t return the call fast enough.

    Who cares what Joe Walsh thinks about, well, anything?


  7. - CircularFiringSquad - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 3:47 pm:

    The @aers are all tough guys they should like a shiny new holster hanging off their Carharts….Along with a shiny sticker that sez they got lots of insurance….


  8. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 3:54 pm:

    –Yes, they are, but Illinois is the only state with no provision for the general public to carry a concealed weapon in a public place. The generalization is certainly warranted.–

    That’s certainly not the case in New Jersey, Maryland and Hawaii. They are so restrictive as to basically make them no-issue.

    And I wouldn’t assume you can pack anywhere in NYC, Boston, LA, San Francisco or other big cities in Cally.

    Lot of general public there.

    It’s complicated, which why the “49 state” argument strikes me as willfully dishonest.


  9. - Crime Fighter - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 3:59 pm:

    ==”Who cares what Joe Walsh thinks about, well, anything?”==

    Maybe the point is that the door is open for angry crackpots like Walsh to pack.


  10. - RSW - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 4:01 pm:

    Rep. Phelps had a decent bill. HB 148. Rich, what is the status of task force established by House Resolution introduced by Rep. Ford?


  11. - Slick Willy - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 4:04 pm:

    “I don’t want people out of control wandering the streets with guns that are out of control.”

    As if anyone does - pro gun or not. No hyperbole there Barb.


  12. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 4:25 pm:

    47, don’t you think the heir of Washington and Adams, the great revolutionary Joe, deserves a sendoff for his amazing contributions to his country?

    From Joe’s last town hall meeting, according to the Trib:

    –“Our country is going through a revolution,” said Walsh, his voice rising to a shout. “Our freedom is at risk of being lost. If that happens, we’ll have government take over everything and take what you have.”

    –Walsh spoke nostalgically of an America he described as much more self-sufficient and independent than today. Back then, he said, people cared for the elderly and the unemployed without government assistance.–

    “That’s the America I believe in,” Walsh said. “We were stronger 80 years ago.”–

    Gee, 80 years ago, 1932… I wonder what he’s talking about?

    So long, Joe. Take your ignorant nostalgia for a time that never existed….

    .. and your hateful rejection of the historically unprecedented advances in freedom, liberty and wealth that, since 1932, our grandparents and parents gave all for, not just for those of us in the United States, but all over the world…

    and get a job.


  13. - RSW - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 4:25 pm:

    Lived in Colorado when shall issue concealed carry passed. After it was over nothing happened and people moved on to other issues. All the fears never cqame to pass.


  14. - Moe - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 4:32 pm:

    “I don’t want people out of control wandering the streets with guns that are out of control.”

    Better stay out of the west and south sides of CHicago, Barb…it’s pretty rough there.


  15. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 4:34 pm:

    –Lived in Colorado when shall issue concealed carry passed. After it was over nothing happened and people moved on to other issues. All the fears never cqame to pass.–

    Hey, have you seen that “Dark Knight Rises” movie yet? I hear it’s playing at the Century 16 in Aurora.


  16. - chuddery - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 4:35 pm:

    Maybe someone can point out what I’m missing but how does this ruling require concealed carry? Posner strikes down the whole law unless the GA comes up with a better one. I get the political arguments but legally he doesn’t seem to hold that concealed carry is a 2nd Amdt. right.

    In rejecting the state’s justification he notes that “a state may be able to require “open carry”—that is,require persons who carry a gun in public to carry it in plain view rather than concealed.”


  17. - Anon - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 4:38 pm:

    Seriously, Greg Hinz seems to be unaware of the recent Supreme Court jurisprudence on this subject. Forty-nine states have already enacted some form of concealed carry laws, subject to reasonable limits.

    Memo to opponents of hand gun ownership for private citizens: Judge Posner previously ruled in favor of Illinois hand gun ordinances as enacted by Chicago and Oak Park. His new opinion reverses his previous judicial opinions on the same subject and recognizes that the US Supreme Court has already indicated its position on this topic. Another appeal would be costly and fruitless. Chicago has spent millions trying to deny citizens the right to legal gun ownership. If Illinois wants to waste more money, have at it.


  18. - Rod - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 4:40 pm:

    I thought Greg Hinz’s position that the 7th decision would require Illinois to allow open carry is totally absurd. I just read Judge Posner’s decision and could find no basis at all in it that it required Illinois to allow open carry of hand guns in non-hunting situations.

    I hope that the Illinois State Rifle Association is wrong and the Attorney General develops legislation on concealed carry that has extensive training requirements, limits the number of rounds in clips, background checks, has legal but fairly high fees attached to it, bans all cities and villiages from imposing additional restrictions beyond what the GA adopts, and has serious restrictions on the areas concealed firearms can be carried. If she develops legislation that is purposely too restrictive, and the GA approves it, it will get struck down too. I think an appeal to the US Supreme Court is a waste of time, Posner based his decision on prior Supreme Court rulings.

    This is a reality we have to live with especially up here in Chicago.


  19. - Ken_in_Aurora - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 4:42 pm:

    “Hey, have you seen that “Dark Knight Rises” movie yet? I hear it’s playing at the Century 16 in Aurora.”

    Disingenuous, word - IIRC James Holmes was not a CCW licensee. Or do you plan on pinning all blame for any gun crime on legal CCW holders? I thought you were better than that.


  20. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 4:44 pm:

    wordslinger - “–Lived in Colorado when shall issue concealed carry passed. After it was over nothing happened and people moved on to other issues. All the fears never cqame to pass.–

    Hey, have you seen that “Dark Knight Rises” movie yet? I hear it’s playing at the Century 16 in Aurora.”

    Did the shooter in that incident have a concealed carry license? Did that incident have anything to do with concealed carry? Did that incident occur because of the concealed carry law in Colorado? If not, then what is your point?


  21. - Cheryl44 - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 5:02 pm:

    Where exactly can you carry in the average CC state? Most places of business would ban them, I would think. So you can have a gun at home, you can have one in your car, I would guess gunshops and firing ranges wouldn’t mind. If I were religious I would want my place of worship to ban guns. I don’t think where I work will allow them in, I can’t imagine being able to take one into a store or even on a bus or L train.

    So where do these people carry? This is not snark, I’m serious.


  22. - Ahoy! - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 5:02 pm:

    If the court is ok with Illinois limiting where concealed carry can take place, then are they essentially saying you don’t have the “right” to protect yourself in all circumstances such as at a daycare/school/park. It seems like you either have the legal “right” to protect yourself outside of the home or you do not. It seems there is a creation of legal hypocrisy. I hate to say it should probably be all or nothing at all, but this is the legal conundrum the Appeals Court has created.

    Disclaimer - I’m personally against concealed carry, I don’t think people need to be walking around with hidden weapons.


  23. - Cheryl44 - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 5:03 pm:

    Edit–I would not want guns in my place of worship, if I had one.


  24. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 5:07 pm:

    You don’t have a place of worship?


  25. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 5:09 pm:

    Just kidding Cheryl.

    Alcohol is legal but colleges ban it in the dorms. You better believe there will be a push to exempt colleges. My guess is that there will be a lot of support for carving out big exceptions to the carry law. Despite Todd’s present roll call, today’s ruling changes everything and ISRA will be starting from scratch on this bill.


  26. - Ken_in_Aurora - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 5:20 pm:

    “So where do these people carry? This is not snark, I’m serious.”

    Cheryl, many states allow retailers and other property owners to prohibit CCW on their premises by posting. What has happened in other states (TX and WI come to mind) is that most retailers choose not to post and still others start by posting but later back down under pressure from their customers. Of course some remain no-carry zones. In most cases carry in a posted location not otherwise prohibited by law will simply result in being asked to leave, with a violation only coming if the CCW refuses or causes problems.

    Enlightened property owners do not automatically assume legally carried firearms are bad and their owners worse.


  27. - Anon* - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 5:28 pm:

    Word,
    I agree with you on most things, but your comment about the Colorado shooter is out of line. He did not have a CCW. The theatre he attacked had a policy of not allowing firearms on the premises, though. How’d that work out? If his rifle hadn’t jammed he would have killed everyone in that theatre, and nobody in there would have any reasonable means of defending themselves.


  28. - The third rail - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 6:02 pm:

    @47th Ward: Entertainment value?


  29. - Where's Mike? - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 6:32 pm:

    to Cheryl44:

    I am a 55 year resident of Illinois (my entire life) and currently have a conceal carry permit (from Utah as a non-resident of Utah) which allows me to legally conceal carry in 29 states that honor or recognize Utah permits. All of the states that border Illinois recognize and honor my permit. As soon as I cross the Illinois/Missouri state line, I take my pistol out of its’ case and put a clip in. I carry concealed in St. Louis almost everywhere I go with the exception of where they are illegal or posted as not allowed, such as sports stadiums, St. Louis Zoo, bars, etc. You can carry in restaurants that serve alcohol as long as alcohol sales are not the primary business.

    I have piece of mind when traveling in St. Louis knowing I have a better means of protecting myself in the event of a car jacking attempt or robbery. If you’ve ever traveled outside the state of Illinois, you’ve most likely stood in line next to an armed citizen at some point in time.


  30. - dang - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 7:09 pm:

    Hence the problem “where’s Mike”. You describe a world where since one guy has one, you gotta have one too. Sort of like the nuclear arms race.


  31. - dang - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 7:16 pm:

    However. The genie is out of the bottle. Guns have swept across the country and the world many times over. So give everybody a gun. That is the only solution. Mutually assured destruction is
    the only deterrent.


  32. - Just Observing - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 7:37 pm:

    == “First of all, I hope they appeal it,” Link, a Waukegan Democrat, said. “Let’s get a true ruling on it.” ===

    So if the courts rule against Link’s policy positions it’s not a true ruling, but if they rule in favor of his policy positions it is.


  33. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 7:40 pm:

    I wonder if Posner is trying to put Scalia in a trick bag, taking “Heller” and “McDonald” and making them more of an argument for open carry rather than conceal carry.

    Posner, the hardest working man in judge business, has been harshly critical of Scalia, most notably in a The New Republic review of Scalia’s gun and other opinions, entitled “The Incoherence of Antonin Scalia.”

    http://www.tnr.com/article/magazine/books-and-arts/106441/scalia-garner-reading-the-law-textual-originalism


  34. - Just The Way It Is One - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 7:55 pm:

    County distinction law/Statute, as applied in some other States, is the best way to go with this development–obviously, COOK County, and some others in Illinois, face uniquely more dangerous situations that can’t altogether be ignored, while simultaneously upholding 2nd Amendment rights…


  35. - amalia - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 7:57 pm:

    someone please enlighten me and tell me how the Oregon carry laws protected mall shoppers against tonight’s shooter. did the mall prohibit law abiding gun carry? do handguns work against those armed with the reported M15 or AR15 used? and, please, no nonsense about now is not the time to talk about guns and crime. when is the time to talk about guns and crime?


  36. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 8:01 pm:

    Off topic, but big news

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-illinois-supreme-court-rules-quinn-can-close-state-prisons-20121211,0,5841620.story


  37. - Logic not emotion - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 8:06 pm:

    It was the correct ruling.

    Agree that Word’s reference to dark knight was totally out of line. My understanding is that he didnt have permit and that theatre was only one posted. coincidence? probably not…


  38. - Six Degrees of Separation - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 8:06 pm:

    @Cheryl44, in my railroad days I worked with a guy who moonlighted as an auto reposessor, and he worked in a lot of rough neighborhoods. I’m pretty sure he (illegally) had a concealed weapon on his rounds of “business”.


  39. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 8:27 pm:

    LNE, if Holmes didn’t have a conceal carry permit, it was because he didn’t bother to jump through the hoops, not because he would have been denied.

    He bought all the weaponry legally. Is your argument that those applying for CCW permits should be held to a higher standard? Please explain.

    Also, you note that the theater barred those from carrying concealed weapons and say “coincidence?” Are you suggesting, as some have, this massacre would have been prevented if everyone in the theater had been packing?

    Is that an argument you want to make to the GA and public — be safe at the movies, bring your gun? Where the kids are?

    My initial reaction was to a poster that conceal-carry was a dead issue in Colorado. That opinion has no basis in reality.


  40. - The right time - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 8:56 pm:

    Amalia- how did the laws against murder protect the people in that mall in Oregon?


  41. - wishbone - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 9:09 pm:

    …COOK County, and some others in Illinois, face uniquely more dangerous situations that can’t altogether be ignored, while simultaneously upholding 2nd Amendment rights…”

    So people don’t have civil rights in Cook County that are available elsewhere in the state. The chances of that being upheld are exactly zero.


  42. - downstate commissioner - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 9:26 pm:

    This had to have come out late, based on the time of the first comment, but I am surprised that Todd (and Rich) haven’t made any comments. I do agree with several of the posters that this ruling could be a two-edged sword for proponents of concealed carry.
    While the simplest way for the legislature to deal with the legal mandate would be simply to accept the current bill out there, the anti-gunners probably will retain enough votes to force a stricter version as some kind of compromise. Lightbulb thought- what happens if the legislature doesn’t pass a bill? Do we automatically become a state like Vermont, which has no firearms-carry laws on their books? IL residnts can carry legally there now…


  43. - amalia - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 9:38 pm:

    @The Right time…get serious.


  44. - downstate commissioner - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 9:47 pm:

    Oops-clicked on capfax and this was the first article to come up, so some of my comments were answered before I asked them in the original article. (I wondered why so few comments…)


  45. - reformer - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 10:03 pm:

    I want to be the first to nominate Todd as lobbyist of the year. He jost won one of the biggest victorie sin memory.


  46. - western illinois - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 10:10 pm:

    Barbara Flynn Currie just said they(?) will write a law so restrictive that it will be like there was no loss(just on Ch 7)


  47. - Pot calling kettle - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 10:24 pm:

    Just because you feel safer does not mean that you are safer. It is just as likely that concealed carry would make someone packing less safe because they would be willing to go somewhere that is less safe.

    I strongly recommend listening to this program for some excellent backstory on guns in America. http://backstoryradio.org/straight-shot-guns-in-america-2/

    One interesting item: In the “wild west” folks typically had to leave their guns in the sheriff’s office when they came to town. Go figure.


  48. - western illinois - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 10:38 pm:

    Colbert had it on “If you are in one of the 50 CC states be careful”


  49. - Todd - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 10:38 pm:

    did nobody read the decision?


  50. - Pot calling kettle - Tuesday, Dec 11, 12 @ 11:38 pm:

    ==did nobody read the decision?==

    Sorry, Todd. It was choice of that or responding quickly. Reading such things thoroughly makes knee-jerk reactions and pontification so much more difficult.


  51. - Lucky than Good - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 1:47 am:

    chuddery — …..he notes that “a state may be able to require “open carry”….

    The original supreme court decisions that prompted all of this follow on litigation basically said that you can’t totally ban loaded carry outside the home. The supremes said it’s ok to restrict the carry to open OR concealed, but you can’t restrict both.

    Posner is simply reiterating that the legislature has a choice.


  52. - 45CCW - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 3:05 am:

    Word, the reason some say that p.o.s. chose that theater, instead of ones that were closer to his residence, was due to the fact that they banned guns, and he had less of a chance to be shot by a legally armed citizen. It’s about time Illinois allows law abiding citizens the rights they’re guaranteed by the Constitution. What if your freedom of speech or religion was only in the home, or if you had the proper permit you paid for?


  53. - Skeptic - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 8:06 am:

    “…the reason some say that p.o.s. chose that theater…” The old “Some believe that …” argument often used by pseudo-science and conspiracy theorists. That doesn’t prove that what you’re saying is wrong, but “some believe that” is not proof (or supporting evidence) of any sort. So from a critical thinking point of view, that whole line of argument has no merit.


  54. - Ken_in_Aurora - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 10:16 am:

    I think this is a spambot, Rich:

    - site empires - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 7:54 am:


  55. - titan - Wednesday, Dec 12, 12 @ 10:17 am:

    @Skeptic - the shooter there was nuts…goofy…crazy (call it what you want). He may have picked the particular theater because the Martians sent him coded messages telling him to, or the color scheme for the building’s decor offended him.
    But it is at least somewhat instructive that he passed up other placed to get to the essentially guaranteed unarmed victim “fish in a barrell” scenario.
    It is also instructive that a few of our recent campus or mall shooting events were ended before law enforcement responders arrived, by off duty police or CCW carriers retrieving their legal weapons from their vehicles.
    A well crafted CCW law could increase the public’s safety regarding these sorts of events.


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        * Instagram's spam purge reveals high-profile accounts with fake followers
        * Gresso Regal Black Edition made from titanium packs 5.0-inch screen
        * Exiles dares you to make your escape from an “alien” world
        * Ask the iTunes Guy: Missing ringtones and explicit radio

        * FBI: Sony hack was North Korea’s work
        * The Savvy Plan to Combat Malaria With Mobile Phones
        * FBI Says North Korea Responsible for Sony Hack (Updated)
        * T-Mobile Settles Government “Cramming” Charges for $90 Million
        * Deal Of The Day: 10% Off On PowerCube Original USB
        * Sony Pictures Hackers Demand “The Interview” Never Be Released
        * Elon Musk: Tesla battery swap now working in beta in California

        * Terrerobytes: Future of Cuban baseball complicated on both sides
        * White Sox sign George Kottaras to a minor league deal
        * Kottaras to join White Sox with Minor League deal
        * Loss of Draft picks viewed as good trade for White Sox
        * Windy City revival: Cubs, White Sox revamped for '15
        * ZiPS projections underscore White Sox's riskiest bets
        * AL Central looking like one powerhouse division

        ...............


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