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Dart vows “blanket” objections to “thousands” of concealed carry applicants

Tuesday, Dec 17, 2013

* Fox 32

Illinoisans can begin applying next month for the state’s first-ever permits to carry concealed firearms. But the Cook County Sheriff complains to FOX 32 News that the system to screen those applicants is full of holes. Unless the system is fixed, Sheriff Tom Dart says he’s prepared to take extraordinary action to prevent permits from being granted to anyone with a serious arrest record.

FOX 32 has learned that Sheriff Dart sent a letter to the director of the Illinois State Police announcing his “blanket objection” to granting a concealed carry permit to anyone who’s been arrested even once in the last seven years for domestic violence, a gang-related crime or illegal gun possession. Even if they haven’t been convicted, Dart says, those charges are “red flags” that need to be pursued. […]

“I gotta imagine we’ll be objecting to hundreds, easily thousands of people,” Dart told FOX 32’s Mike Flannery. “What we’re gonna have is this massive influx of the applications. And they’re gonna be given out. And we’re just left holding the bag when the inevitable bad thing will happen. It happens in other states. And in other states they also have people who are armed who stop crimes. It happens both ways, I understand that. But when the inevitable bad thing happens, people will say, ‘Why wasn’t this person caught?’”

The law sets up a concealed carry board that is supposed to act on local police objections within 90 days. Dart will be jamming that system for sure.

The NRA’s Todd Vandermyde said that Dart’s intention to object to absolutely everyone with a prior gun arrest doesn’t make sense since the state’s public carry laws were declared unconstitutional.

Sheriff Dart’s letter to the State Police is here.

* Meanwhile

Suburban police say it’s a frequent scenario: They’re called to respond to a tense situation at a house and don’t know if anyone inside is licensed to own a gun.

Bloomingdale Police Officer Levi McGhee warns a driver about speeding. McGhee, like many officers, believes having better access to FOID information would make police safer during such stops.

That information is held by the Illinois State Police, but the list of the state’s 1.6 million Firearm Owner Identification cardholders isn’t shared with local police.

Police often don’t have that clue to whether a gun might be in the house until the encounter is nearly over. Only after they’ve got a person’s name can they check it against the state’s list.

Some police officials say that’s a key shortcoming of the state law. They would prefer to have that information available ahead of traffic stops and calls to quell domestic disputes.

- Posted by Rich Miller        


35 Comments
  1. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 11:40 am:

    How does Dart figure there will be “thousands” of applications for those with that kind of arrest history?

    I wouldn’t be too sure.

    –The NRA’s Todd Vandermyde said that Dart’s intention to object to absolutely everyone with a prior gun arrest doesn’t make sense since the state’s public carry laws were declared unconstitutional.–

    That dog don’t hunt. The blanket prohibition in state law was ruled unconstitutional. That’s not a free pass for everyone, in all circumstances, who was arrested in the past for carrying a gun in public.


  2. - walkinfool - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 11:55 am:

    Dart just loves the spotlight, and the grandiose statement for the press.

    He must have tired of not being the center of attention, after Toni P. ate his lunch.


  3. - Todd - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 11:57 am:

    Word– lets take shawn gowder as an example. He was arrested and convicted under safe neighborhoods. A Felony for carrying a gun to protect himself. After the court tossed that law in 2000 he conviction was reduced to a class A misdomeanor. He had to sue Chicago to get his CFP because they wpuld not let anyone with a gun conviction get a permit to own. The court agreed with Shawn, and the city had to issue the CFP somthe issue has been litigated and Dart is outsode of the law.

    But he doesn’t like the law and he wants to re-write it or make up his own rules.

    He wants to make blanket objections just for an arrest and not even a conviction. So how isnthis fair?

    The 7th CA says you have a right to carry a gun for selfdefense. And the 7th district cpurt has found that Chicago could not deny a permit for a misdameanor. So he is put on a limb and he can go fly a kite.

    On top of that, I don’t think he spent any time talking to the speaker or the bill sponsors about the bill. Absent as usual


  4. - 2nd Amendment Guy - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 11:59 am:

    People who possess firearms illegally are more likely to use them against police. Police should approach every situation assuming the individual they encounter is armed. Giving local police access to FOID information will not make police safer and will only cause police to discriminate against lawful gun owners (consciously or subconsciously).


  5. - G.I.Joe - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 12:03 pm:

    Even if police officers know a person does not have a FOID card, they can’t ASS U ME they don’t have a gun. The only thing about knowing if a person has a FOID card is they are law-abiding citizens and therefore somewhat less likely to break the law.


  6. - A guy... - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 12:19 pm:

    There’s an earned media opportunity here for 3 GOP candidates running for Governor. What do you hear? Crickets. Yikes. Nothing pulls together nearly all the GOP and nearly every Dem out of the metro area like this issue. If you can’t buy commercials, at least get yourself quoted on the Lay up issues.


  7. - Formerly Known As... - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 12:29 pm:

    Ugh.

    Instead of focusing on persistent overcrowding, manpower shortages, racial bias in the penal system, truth-in-sentencing for violent offenders or the recent gun crime parolees who served less than 50% of their sentence before shooting police officers, Dart focuses on… jamming the concealed carry system?

    Nice use of resources there. Way to focus on the most important stuff.


  8. - Formerly Known As... - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 12:35 pm:

    === illegal gun possession ===

    Especially ironic if the reason you were busted for “illegal gun possession” in the first place was Illinois’ previously unconstitutional “gun possession” laws.


  9. - Logic not emotion - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 12:38 pm:

    Having officers relying upon whether a person holds a FOID card to infer whether they are dangerous is asinine for multiple reasons.

    • First: FOID and CCW license holders are certainly not the people who would typically pose any danger to a law enforcement officer and absolutely not to a greater danger. Statistics support that CCW license holders are much more law abiding than the general population. The ones officers need to be on alert for are the ones who obtained their gun illegally and would never get licensed anyway.

    • Second: Prudence dictates that officers assume that everyone is a crazed killer until their assessment / judgment indicates otherwise. I once had a funeral home owner try to convince me to force a hospital to notify him anytime anyone died known to have HIV or Hepatitis. My response was to effect that he should always assume the deceased had something transmittable and always utilize universal precautions. Whether you are an officer or a mortician, you’re foolish if you don’t always take appropriate precautions for a worst case scenario.

    The online only issue is a legitimate problem to many of the same people for whom the extraordinarily high total cost of obtaining a permit in Illinois is – the older, more impoverished individuals. Ironically, these are the same ones who probably need the protection the most.

    Formerly Known As… That IS especially ironic!


  10. - Downstate GOP voter - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 12:42 pm:

    I think that it is better to error on the side of caution when my life is on the line. For a person who could become ‘collateral damage’ from the actions of a CC permit holder, a wait to be sure who is receiving a permit is the preferable thing to do.

    Also, in addition to checking for past felonies, anyone applying for a concealed carry permit should be checked for orders of protection. This is another “red flag” in my mind.


  11. - Just Observing - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 12:57 pm:

    I agree with others above that those with a CC permit or FOID are a lesser threat. Moreover, having FOID does not mean you are carrying and does not even mean you own a gun. I have a FOID, but do not even own a gun.


  12. - FormerParatrooper - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 1:06 pm:

    From Darts statement I take it that if you are accused of a crime and not convicted, he feels you are still guilty?


  13. - John - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 1:08 pm:

    Vandermyde and NRA supplied the UNLIMITED state and federal privacy waiver in Rep. Phelps carry bill in 2011 when it failed to pass, and the language was identical in Phelps HB183 carry bill which passed this summer:

    “a waiver of the applicant’s privacy and confidentiality rights and privileges under all federal and state laws,…”

    The State Police or the unelected carry Review Board will be able to get into bank account & IRS returns with this language. Or anything else they want to. Key legal word being ALL records.

    In 2011 when Vandermyde gave the Chiefs of Police Duty to Inform with criminal penalties, Orland Park Police Chief Tim McCarthy was president. McCarthy was a secret service agent who was shot by John Hinckley during the attempt on President Reagans’ life. McCarthy does press conferences with Jim & Sarah Brady, of the Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

    Since Vandermyde has shown that he is willing to “cross the aisle” and work with the anti-gun Chiefs of Police to sell out the interests of NRA members, Sheriff Dart should just approach him and the NRA and cut a deal.


  14. - Demoralized - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 1:13 pm:

    ==The 7th CA says you have a right to carry a gun for selfdefense==

    That doesn’t mean no restrictions. But I get your point.


  15. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 1:13 pm:

    – McCarthy was a secret service agent who was shot by John Hinckley during the attempt on President Reagans’ life. –

    That’s some kind of disqualifier in your mind? How’s that?


  16. - Demoralized - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 1:14 pm:

    @John:

    I see you’re back again with your kooky gun rhetoric. You do your side no good, my friend.


  17. - wowsers - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 1:25 pm:

    ==The State Police or the unelected carry Review Board will be able to get into bank account & IRS returns with this language. Or anything else they want to. Key legal word being ALL records.==

    Not even remotely accurate.


  18. - Pete - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 1:36 pm:

    I think Dart wants a reason to search your car during a traffic stop.

    If you come up on the local database as a gun owner after they run your plates, they can then suggest that you may have been involved in a nearby shooting. Then they can justify a search as reasonable during a traffic stop.

    I agree with “Just Observing”.
    I don’t think it’s a stretch to imagine an officer pulling a driver over, approaching with their gun drawn, searching the driver and vehicle until convinced that there is no gun in the vehicle or on the person, before issuing a citation for rear tail light being out.


  19. - Formerly Known As... - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 2:10 pm:

    Thanks @Logic not emotion.

    You also make a good point concerning actual FOID and CCW applicants. Those applicants are highly unlikely to be the gang members responsible for a majority of the gun-related homicides in Illinois.


  20. - NW Illinois Dem - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 2:33 pm:

    Tom Dart, once again, shows he’s not a doormat for the NRA — unlike just about every legislator I know.


  21. - Logic not emotion - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 2:48 pm:

    NW ID: I can only say “Thank Goodness” for those legislators with the wisdom and fortitude to support the NRA on many issues.


  22. - NW Illinois Dem - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 2:51 pm:

    “We’re not handing out balloons or party favors to people. Shouldn’t we slow down and take a look at this?”

    Great Dart quote that sums the situation up - calling for common sense and public safety.


  23. - Leave a Light on George - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 2:52 pm:

    It’s Illinois. What did you expect? Elected officials to follow the law-constitution?


  24. - RonOglesby - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 3:05 pm:

    @NW Illinois Dem
    —Great Dart quote that sums the situation up - calling for common sense and public safety—

    so what is your suggestion? We have one of the more involved background check setups for the Illinois CCW. Objections from local LEOs EVEN IF YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN CONVICTED OF ANYTHING.

    Dart is trying to toss out blanket objections.


  25. - John - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 3:44 pm:

    “Some police officials say that’s a key shortcoming of the state law. They would prefer to have that information available ahead of traffic stops and calls to quell domestic disputes.”

    I’m sure the cops would, so they can perform expanded searches and rack up some gun arrests for their department scoreboards. Here we go, expanded Duty to Inform on steroids
    now.

    After having the US Federal Court hand them victory on a platter, the dynamic duo of Rep. Phelps and his Rasputin Vandermyde just could not help themselves from placing Duty to Inform into the carry law. These two are supposedly the pro-gun guys!

    Then we have principled black caucus Reps. like Chris Welch questioning Chicago police superintendent McCarthy about the dangers of DTI in the House judiciary hearing on concealed carry held in Chicago. Reps. LaShawn Ford and Will Davis debated the “pro-gun” sponsor Phelps about DTI and profiling in floor debate in Springfield, and Phelps refuses to take it out of his bill!

    Talk about strange bedfellows! The only people in IL who can’t smell a rat in this deal are the NRA rubes.

    Of course the cops want to know who has a FOID. For the police bureaucracy, information is control. Forget about innocent until proven guilty, and the right to remain silent.


  26. - John - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 3:51 pm:

    wordslinger- just some background on Tim McCarthy for those that don’t know that he is currently the Chief of Orland Park in the Chicago area now.


  27. - Demoralized - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 3:55 pm:

    ==Duty to Inform==

    And that problem with that is?

    ==Of course the cops want to know who has a FOID==

    They already know that.

    ==Tim McCarthy==

    The guy took a bullet for Reagan. I don’t think I’ll question his integrity on the gun issue.


  28. - Rod - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 4:43 pm:

    I have liked very much the work Dart has been trying to do with prisoners with mental health problem in Cook County jail. But in all honesty I believe that Sheriff Dart’s letter to the State Police constitutes an abuse of the power granted to his office. These blanket objections will cost possibly many thousands of dollars and a waste of police time.


  29. - chemicalriverside - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 7:14 pm:

    I always thought police would assume anyone is armed and act accordingly. Isn’t that how they are trained?


  30. - Classico - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 7:25 pm:

    Democrats don’t like to follow the constitution or the law:
    -parental notification
    -concealed carry
    -Obamacare
    They know better.


  31. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 7:29 pm:

    Classico, as a Constitutional scholar, where do you see violations engineered by “Democrats” on these issues?


  32. - John - Tuesday, Dec 17, 13 @ 7:56 pm:

    chemicalriverside- yes, that is how cops are trained. Although police work is listed something like the eighth most dangerous occupation in America by the labor dept., way below lumberjack, the police unions like to whine about how hard their job is. That’s how the Chiefs of Police got DTI in Phelps carry bill.

    Many suburban Chicago cops without a college degree are paid between $50K to $100K per year. Boo hoo. It’s a job. If they don’t like it, they are free to quit. It’s not the military, where you get charged with desertion when you leave your post.

    So while the police unions scam the legislature into giving them DTI for “officer safety” take a look at all the laws cops are exempt from:

    Off duty cops in or out of their jurisdiction do not have to tell on-duty cops by law that they are police.

    Off duty cops do not have to tell on-duty cops that they are armed by law. No Duty to Inform there. If DTI is so important, why not?

    Retired cops carrying guns under the FEDERAL Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act do not have to tell on duty cops they are armed. The Brandon Phelps good old boy mentality has gone nationwide now and overrides state and local laws!

    But when Illinois emptied Death Row because of the systematic torture and setup of suspects by CPD detective Jon Burge and his midnight crew of detectives, the legislature had to force cops in IL to video homicide interrogations by passing a law. And the Chiefs of Police and every other police union opposed this.

    We should just trust the police, they are are friends. If the police want to know who has an FOID or carry license, then by all means lets give them everything they want. Vandermyde likes to puff up and talk tough to Sheriff Dart for his followers, but really he’s on the same side.


  33. - Crunch - Wednesday, Dec 18, 13 @ 8:29 am:

    Politicians like Dart is why term limits are important as a citizen of Cook County I will not be voting for him or any other democratic for years to come


  34. - John - Wednesday, Dec 18, 13 @ 10:44 pm:

    Vandermyde and the NRA like to pose as the legal advocates of Shawn Gowder against the Chicago machine. That plays well to the downstate gun rube voter base, who don’t know the history.

    Where was the NRA when Roderick Pritchett was arrested by CPD on a framed up UUW? NRA didn’t give him a dime. John Birch and the supporters of Concealed Carry, Inc. threw a fundraiser and put money in his pocket to hire a lawyer.

    Where was NRA & ISRA when Chris Morley got arrested for fanny pack carry? Nowhere to be seen. How about some help for John Horstman when DuPage County state’s attorney Joe Birkett put him in jail on $250,000 bond for fanny pack carry back in 2001? Richard Pearson was hiding out in his grain bin in Chatsworth, talking about how they were going to work quietly for gun owners in Springfield.

    These guys excel at losing and doing nothing. Now they think concealed carry was their idea.

    It’s going to be pretty hard to recruit decent plaintiffs like Otis McDonald after Vandermyde and Phelps threw him and everyone in IL under the bus with DTI in the carry bill.


  35. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Dec 18, 13 @ 11:50 pm:

    John, unlike the rest of Planet Earth, in Illinois and the United States, you can have all the guns you want.

    That thing between your legs ain’t going to get any bigger.


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