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Question of the day

Tuesday, Aug 5, 2014

* Gov. Quinn, speaking about Bruce Rauner, et al…


* The Question: Is the governor becoming desperate by attacking his opponent’s patriotism or should he continue with this line of assault? Take the poll and then explain your answer in comments, please.


survey solutions

- Posted by Rich Miller        


49 Comments
  1. - mcb - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 2:38 pm:

    There should be a choice that says “Looks desperate but it’s his best angle so keep hitting”


  2. - A guy... - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 2:40 pm:

    Actually a little surprised here. Then I noticed only 13 voted so far. It’s doesn’t just look desperate. It is.


  3. - OneMan - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 2:41 pm:

    I worked for a European corporation in a US operation (they purchased the US company I worked for) does that make me un-American.

    Also

    Then he should insist that the state have no investments in overseas companies or assets including those foreign government bonds, right Pat?


  4. - Norseman - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 2:43 pm:

    I like MCB’s alternative answer.


  5. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 2:43 pm:

    This is like a right-brain, left-brain kind of question. My rational, adult, middle class, college educated, professional self say he needs to give it a rest. Running for public office is the very definition of patriotic. Enough already.

    But the political brain in me says he can get some cheap mileage out of this line of attack. Not so much by questioning Rauner’s patriotism, but questioning his ethics, even though the Cayman’s bamking stuff is perfectly legal, the bar ought to be higher, yada, yada yada.

    Rauner has some vulnerability on the tax issue. Questioning his patriotism misses the target and is just dumb. Quinn sometimes runs his mouth faster than his brain. This is one of those times.


  6. - Bogey Golfer - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 2:44 pm:

    Voted he should stop. Nearly all of us have an IRA, 401K, et al that has some investment vehicle that invests in oversees. A few of us own International Stock Funds. Does that mean we are unpatriotic? Wonder if PQ where all his money is invested….


  7. - Bogey Golfer - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 2:45 pm:

    Insert ‘knows’ after PQ. BTW, just heard Walgreen’s is staying put.


  8. - Concerned Voter - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 2:45 pm:

    It’s totally desperate but what else does he have. Having been successful in business is un-American is his next line of attack.

    I’m waiting for PQ to suggest that anyone who is investing in the stock market sector of “emerging markets” or bonds in a foreign company to be unpatriotic also.


  9. - Bogart - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 2:48 pm:

    Walgreen’s stock just crashed on news it won’t invert. Patriotic or stupid? I suspect the shareholders might have an opinion.


  10. - Archiesmom - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 2:48 pm:

    As much as we say we hate them, negative ads work. This isn’t desperate, it’s SOP. And you know if Rauner is negative (a la ‘Headlines’), Quinn has to use everything he’s got and follow the path. We can expect a whole lot more from both.


  11. - Robert the Bruce - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 2:49 pm:

    Quinn should stop questioning Rauner’s patriotism. It also implies Quinn believes that paying more in taxes is patriotic, which can’t be a good line of attack.

    But Quinn absolutely should keep attacking Rauner’s tax dodging.


  12. - Concerned Voter - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 2:54 pm:

    BTW Illinois invests in in foreign bonds, I guess Illinois is un-patriotic.???

    http://www.ijreview.com/2014/07/160282-democratic-nominee-illinois-state-treasurer-support-divestment-israel/


  13. - VanillaMan - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 2:55 pm:

    Quinn is the incumbent who hasn’t been reminding voters why they should vote for him again. This won’t help the Governor reconnect with his 2010 voters. Demonizing Rauner looks like demonizing coming from the guy who is supposed to be our state’s leader.

    Quinn looks like a sweaty mess desperate about losing his job to this political amateur. Hull lost, Gidwitz lost, we’ve got a long list of loser millionaires from both parties. These guys lose because they face competent incumbents who connect with voters through their confident leadership. Quinn’s polling demonstrates that this governor doesn’t get it.

    What Rauner has to do is demand that Quinn apologize for suggesting that he isn’t an honorable American. Quinn is overreaching.

    If Quinn had been showing and reminding voters who supported him in 2010, that they made the right choice and can make that choice again this November, then Quinn could benefit from Rauner’s bad press. But he hasn’t, so he won’t.

    Why is this election about who is worse? Why is the incumbent running as though he is the challenger? Instead of having a reelection here, we have two challengers this time around. We have one candidate challenging voters to elect him so that Springfield gets shaken up and changed, and we have a candidate challenging voters to elect him so that he can stick it to rich people.

    Neither is telling us how Illinois will be a better place if they are elected. It is a disgusting and cynical election being watched by a disgusted and cynical electorate. No one is going to win if no one acts like a winner, will they?


  14. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 2:57 pm:

    Terribly desperate, brilliant politics(?)

    Why?

    ===Not so much by questioning Rauner’s patriotism, but questioning his ethics, even though the Cayman’s bamking stuff is perfectly legal, the bar ought to be higher, yada, yada yada.===

    I am afraid if we shared bar stools, it would be a long night, in the best way…

    Voted “desperate”, because sheepishly, it’s in the sweet spot - 47th Ward - described .


  15. - Come one man! - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 2:58 pm:

    Umm this ‘merica. Love it or leave it. These colors don’t run.


  16. - Jimmy CrackCorn - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 2:58 pm:

    Hit away. Take it one step further. Gov. Quinn’s track record on Veteran issues is pretty rock solid. The tax dodge may not effect IL revenue, but at federal level the line to Defense, VA is even more clear. And just look at how well the VA is working for our veterans.


  17. - Peoria guy - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 3:00 pm:

    Both candidates are embarrassing themselves.


  18. - Bogart - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 3:01 pm:

    Archiesmom - there is a qualitative difference between attacking someone’s policies as Rauner does to Quinn, and attacking someone’s personal legal business practices. I believe a lot of voters will get turned off by Quinn’s attacks. He can do better than the greedy, self serving rich man attacks. Rauner’s retort is easy… “yea, I know how to make money and legally protect what I’ve made, and I want to bring that to the job.”


  19. - Makandadawg - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 3:02 pm:

    My patriotism is better than your patriotism. I hate that argument but it probably works.


  20. - dupage dan - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 3:03 pm:

    Underneath the façade of a calm milquetoast exterior beats the heart of a partisan fighter.

    I said he should stop it but not because it looks desperate. I wouldn’t call it desperation since it is SOP for Quinn. But I don’t think it will work in this election. Quinn needs a makeover it he hopes to win. The fatigue in the electorate is not necessarily his fault but it doesn’t matter anymore.


  21. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 3:03 pm:

    ===if we shared bar stools, it would be a long night, in the best way…===

    We’d pretty much solve all of the world’s before last call Willy.


  22. - Jimmy - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 3:06 pm:

    Rauner should not have run for Governor if he didn’t want to pay taxes like a regular voter in Illinois.

    Rauner’s wealth - and how he hides it off shore - puts him out of touch with 99.9999% of Illinois voters. Quinn needs to pound him - just like Obama pounded Romney - on this issue to win.

    Quinn needs to blame Rauner’s tax avoidance strategy for tax increases, tuition increases, education cuts, potholes, environmental problems, etc.

    Pound, pound pound away and when Rauner starts to claim “class warfare” pound even harder because it’s working (and point out how Rauner daily engages in class warfare via tax avoidance).

    Quinn is just the guy to execute this type of attack.


  23. - Louis G. Atsaves - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 3:07 pm:

    I voted desperate and he should stop. As a Republican, I probably should have voted for him to continue the “unpatriotic” stuff as it is so over the top it should backfire on him and diverts attention from the Cayman Island line of attack. But then again, diverting attention from financial mismanagement of government seems to be a Democratic campaign specialty. (snark!)


  24. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 3:07 pm:

    *problems*


  25. - Steve - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 3:07 pm:

    Pat Quinn: investment capital just isn’t that into you and your state of Illinois. The truth hurts.


  26. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 3:13 pm:

    I didn’t vote. I don’t know if it’s desperate, but it is zero-sum-game politics, which has been going on since Adams versus Jefferson, which set the early bar for rough politics.

    Having said that, I recoil at anyone who would question another’s patriotism. He should stop for the reason being that he doesn’t have to choose to go in the gutter as dozens of American politicians have done from Jump Street.


  27. - AC - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 3:16 pm:

    Negatively works, it’s been proven to be effective, even when people say it doesn’t. Not only should Quinn use this line of attack, he needs to find others, and they need to be condensed into one liners, oversimplified sound bytes that get picked up by WBBM and other news outlets in frequent rotation. Quinn needs to compare and contrast himself with Rauner by continually pointing out how Quinn is a man of the people, and Rauner is a billionaire with Cayman island investments, even if that is oversimplified and would insult the intelligence of people on this website. We aren’t representative, even those of us who are occasional posters are policy nerds compared to most people.


  28. - Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 3:20 pm:

    “Pat Quinn: investment capital just isn’t that into you and your state of Illinois. The truth hurts.”

    Rauner could stay in Illinois and gulp down management fees from TRS pensions, slam public unions and government workers but think Illinois is not worthy of his investment money? What a joke.

    I voted that Quinn should keep hitting away at this issue. His using Illinois public pensions to increase his wealth is even more reason to hit away. This relates to corporate inversion.

    Before some of you go continue to weep for the super-wealthy and corporations, check out this graph showing the reduction of the effective corporate tax rate over the last 60+ years.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Effective_Corporate_Tax_Rate_1947-2011_v2.jpg

    Plus, Quinn is an underdog. He has pretty much nothing to lose, as he is expected to lose in November. That can free him up, make him looser, just like a sports team who’s not expected to win but is not so uptight and plays looser.


  29. - Anonymoiis - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 3:25 pm:

    ==Walgreen’s stock just crashed on news it won’t invert. Patriotic or stupid? I suspect the shareholders might have an opinion.==

    This. It needs repeated.


  30. - Barry Aldridge - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 3:27 pm:

    Questioning his patriotism isn’t very useful in a State race. Instead the Governor should ask how Mr. Rauner moving his wealth overseas to avoid US taxes helps create jobs in Illinois. Then, ask a rhetorical question, like: “If he’ll flake out on the United States, what do you think he’ll do to the people of Illinois”


  31. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 3:38 pm:

    ===We’d pretty much solve all of the world’s before last call Willy.===

    Yeah, you’re probably right. Hope we would remember how we solved them the next morning.

    To the Question,

    This also is better done by surrogates, like a LG…

    “Good Cop - Bad Cop”, like Vallas at the beach.

    Just sayin’


  32. - Sunshine - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 3:41 pm:

    Looks desperate. Quinn should start showing what he has done to balance the budget, what he has done to help grow Illinois, and what he has done to buck the leadership at the State House and put our finances in order.

    Unfortunately Quinn isn’t measuring up and can’t tout his own record, so he must try to make an even greater demon out of Rauner.


  33. - Mason born - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 3:45 pm:

    It is desperation and he probably should stop. However he doesn’t have a fallback position. There is a point he can use to attack the Cayman islands and the rest but he needs to recalibrate and lose some of the crazy first. As others have pointed out if investing outside the U.S. is so bad why is the State of IL doing it?? Couldn’t quinn get his “friends” in the GA to limit state investemt overseas?


  34. - Gooner - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 3:53 pm:

    Voters like to think the other candidate hates America.

    This just plays into it.

    Do I wish candidates would behave better? Of course. But this seems to work so go with it.


  35. - Lefty Lefty - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 3:58 pm:

    Why does someone get to live, work, and prosper in this country and not have to pay taxes like me? Why does wealth mean the ability to negotiate your tax rate? Absolute BS.


  36. - Anonymoiis - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 4:07 pm:

    Are any of the overseas investments that require these Cayman accounts to the benefit of some State pension investments? My guess would be yes.


  37. - x ace - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 4:08 pm:

    It is UnAmerican ( of course , this voter’s still got an Oldsmobile)


  38. - Geronimo - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 4:12 pm:

    As a wealthy individual who wants to maximize returns on his investments he can do as he pleases, as long as it’s legal. Under the scrutiny of voters who want to believe that you have their best interests first and foremost in sight, not so sure the greed thing goes over so well. Just as we hold educators to higher standards, it’s fair to hold those working for us to different standards as well. Or should we not hold anyone to different standards?


  39. - bored now - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 4:22 pm:

    it’s not the crime, it’s the coverup…


  40. - zatoichi - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 4:40 pm:

    I do not want to live in this town, spend/invest my money locally, or work with the locals, but I want to be the town’s mayor and earn my living off the town’s opportunities. If you want to be a local leader, you need to show how you are a local.


  41. - kathryn - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 4:42 pm:

    Didn’t Quinn give Walgreens corp. big tax breaks. sort of like the pot calling the kettle black.


  42. - Pete - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 4:45 pm:

    Looks like desperation and he should stop.

    Illinois is constantly trying to attract global corporations. Where a company or individual keeps their money is not as important as where they create jobs.


  43. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 4:46 pm:

    We don’t have a President Romney!!!!

    It will work in BLUE Illinois.


  44. - lovecraft - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 4:52 pm:

    Hit away. Won’t make a difference, however. Barring being caught on video clubbing baby harp seals or having gay sex, Rauner will be our next governor. Quinn won’t be able to overcome the huge margin he will be beaten by in nearly all of Illinois’ counties.


  45. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 4:59 pm:

    - lovecraft -

    Hmmm…

    ===Hit away. Won’t make a difference, however. Barring being caught on video clubbing baby harp seals or ===

    Let’s stop right there for a second.

    Bad form, bad form…

    ===Rauner will be our next governor. Quinn won’t be able to overcome the huge margin he will be beaten by in nearly all of Illinois’ counties.===

    That is called a drive-by.

    August 5th and you are calling it as such? Yikes.


  46. - Wensicia - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 5:25 pm:

    I don’t think this is desperate or unfair. I imagine this will look pretty tame by November.


  47. - walker - Tuesday, Aug 5, 14 @ 5:25 pm:

    “As long as it’s legal” is not the highest standard for ethical or appropriate behavior in any arena. It’s the first rung. Every time I see the phrase, I wonder what is being glossed over.

    And we should hold our public servants to higher standards than we hold the average person, because their positions are an honor, and their responsibilities great.

    That’s a personal position.

    Politically these attacks can work now for Quinn. Later other things.

    The same goes for Rauner’s attacks on Quinn’s credibility. Even with Quinnocchio, they work to some extent.

    Do Rauner’s attacks on Quinn make Rauner look “desparate?” No? Then why ask the same about Quinn? The question only makes sense in the eyes of the already convinced.


  48. - ogger - Wednesday, Aug 6, 14 @ 3:12 am:

    I think it needs to be examined the loyalty of companies or people who accept the protection of the United States but then do not invest in it. It is not wrong to ask the question but I don’t think it should be used as a political football.


  49. - Springfield Northsider - Wednesday, Aug 6, 14 @ 6:03 am:

    After watching both the federal and state government mismanage our tax dollars, if I had substantial sums of $$$, I too would try to protect it than have it spent of worthless programs.


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