45 Comments - paddyrollingstone - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 1:19 pm: Did the Republicans pay American money for this advice from Rove? Talk about banality: (1) don’t bloody up each other in a primary; (2)if you want change, vote for Republicans; and (3)get candidates who can appeal to the suburbs. What a genius. - Billy Dennis - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 1:22 pm: They spew out “DC talking points” because IT WORKS. Voters are stupid. They, by and large, don’t read newspapers. They don’t read blogs. They latch onto sound bites that tell them what they want to hear. No wonder the Founding Fathers went to great lengths to limit the power of the mob. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 1:24 pm: Spin isn’t the topic here, Billy. I don’t like it because it’s stupid, and I can ban it because it’s my blog. lol - paddyrollingstone - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 1:25 pm: Rich, sorry but I couldn’t resist. For a long time Rove was thought to be a brilliant political strategist. I never quite bought into that but I thought that this quote shows his genius is largely overstated; this is Rove on Obama: “Even if you never met him, you know this guy. He’s the guy at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini and a cigarette that stands against the wall and makes snide comments about everyone.” I mean is there anyone who believes that this quote is in any way accurate? - Willie Stark - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 1:27 pm: I would hope that the reporter might have noted that the same day Rove was attending a Republican fundraiser here in Illinois, he was also defying a Congressional subpoena to appear before the House Judiciary Committee to testify about his role in the U.S. Attorney firings. So, that’s how Illinois Republicans get themselves back to power and credibility? Have a guy who is defying the law keynote a fundraiser for them? That is evidence there is still plenty of rot in the Republican ranks, however much they carry on about the Dems. - Weeders - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 1:28 pm: Why do we have to blame one party for this mess we are in? Is this a who is to blame game? Lets stop this finger pointing and lets get things done. - carbon deforestation - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 1:40 pm: I think the robocalls into Biggert and Kirk’s districts won’t do much, but I think they are symbolic. They are a warning shot to the “moderates” in the GOP. It is to say - look, you better vote for some stuff or I’ll keep hammering you, specifically you. I think the Obama people have learned their lesson that they need to fight hard to defend and promote the stimulus bill, and this is part of that. - Heartless Libertarian - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 1:40 pm: Unfortunately, there is nothing Republicans can say to get back into power… people just have to watch the Democrats screw up big time for a few more years…. And it appears that they are well on their way. - Adam Smith - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 1:41 pm: A lot of factors have lined up against the GOP for a while in Illinois. George Ryan, the right wing jihadists killing moderates, GWB, the war, bad strategy (like failing to cultivate a farm team), etc. While he may have detractors, the numbers consistently show Edgar has been the most popular pol in Illinois in a generation and he set the state’s record for a reelection. It would seem that a GOPer in his mold could certainly be successful. Also, some of the insitutional advantages of the party in power are a bit lessened with more scrutiny and transparency, (not enough, but more than there was.) Certainly Kirk, and even the more conservative Roskam have broader appeal than most recent GOP candidates. Kirk could take the first big step for his party if he runs for the Senate. But he may not want to put up with the viciousness of his party’s right wingers. The GOP still has to identify AND PROMOTE new candidates rather than just defering to a bunch of rich white men downtown. - Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 1:51 pm: “The people are looking closely at the quality of candidates you put forward,” Rove said. “You better not claw yourselves up and bloody yourselves up and cut yourselves up in a primary.” Not like when Rove helped elect President Clueless by shredding John McCain with scurrilous racial attacks. I’m betting that the national attacks by Republicans and the likes of Lou Dobbs did NOT help Republicans in the suburbs, and the damage will take years and a Latino on the GOP presidential ticket to reverse. The important question in the Rovian call for a Truce is: what’s in it for the socially conservative wing of the GOP? They aren’t in it for the patronage. They aren’t motivated by taxes. Why is it in their self-interest to elect a moderate GOP governor? The last time they did that, George Ryan vetoed a ban on publicly-funded abortions and pushed to protect gays and lesbians from discrimination. Asking the pro-life, pro-gun, anti-gay rights crowd to support a Republican like Mark Kirk is just as irrational as asking the pro-choice, pro-gun control, pro-gay rights crowd to support a Democrat like Paul Mangieri. And equally doomed. As for Rove, I’ve never met him. Maybe he is a genius, but I don’t see it. He took Bush from 90% approval ratings in the months after 9/11 to the lowest ratings of any President ever, and he brought the GOP Congress, GOP governors, and GOP statehouses down with him. If Karl Rove were a quarterback, even the Bears would have canned him. - Levois - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 1:51 pm: Rove makes sense. I always thought that the way Republicans can bust each other up it’s all about who’s more Republican than the other. Or who’s more conservative. Who cares what particular ideology you are if you’re very committed to the principles of the party you’re supposed to represent. - Louis G. Atsaves - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 1:54 pm: Those robocalls follow on the heels of various local letters to the editor in local papers complaining about Kirk’s vote against the stimulus package and some other recent votes. One prolific letter writer in particular favors Democratic partisanship and castigates anyone who votes against the Democratic party line on issues. To him, government only works well when one party dominates. I guess Obama’s attempts at bipartisanship give that author heartburn. Being a moderate in both major parties is difficult. The problem I see with hammering moderates like Kirk and Biggert on such votes is that it may actually force them away from voting with Democrats on certain issues, instead of forcing them to vote with Democrats. In Kirk’s case, conservatives freak out when he votes against bills they like. Certain Democrats in the 10th then freak out when he votes against bills Obama supports. Maybe that one should be a question of the day for Rich. Are “moderates” in both parties endangered species? - ConservativeVeteran - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 1:57 pm: Many moderate republican politicians win because they and their voters are fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Many of the voters of Kirk’s and Biggert’s districts voted for them because those voters support low tax rates and low spending. The robocalls won’t cause those voters to argue with their congressmen and/or vote for Democrats. Adam, I agree that the GOP needs to identify and promote new candidates. I hope that, in the 2009 elections, more conservatives will win races for township offices, mayor, and town trustee, so that many of those candidates will run for higher offices, in 2010 and ‘12. - Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 1:58 pm: Adam Smith - Don’t hold your breath on Kirk for Senate. Conservatives are much more forgiving on moderate Congressmen. In Illinois, they’ll even tolerate a moderate candidate for Governor from time-to-time. But the Republicans haven’t elected a moderate to the U.S. Senate since women got the right to vote. And unlike Jack Ryan, who was able to pander to both conservatives and liberals because he had no record, Mark Kirk has a LONG record of supporting abortion rights, gun control, and other liberal issues. In fact, the National Abortion Rights Action League gives Kirk a 100% pro-choice voting record. Conservatives are talking about taking Arlen Specter OUT in Pennsylvania; they sure as hell aren’t going to allow another liberal Republican to take his place in voting for Supreme Court Justices and federal judges. - Pat collins - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 2:05 pm: But the Republicans haven’t elected a moderate to the U.S. Senate since women got the right to vote. Charles Percy, right wing icon? The message has been ignored, particularly by the right. The fact that these words are coming from the darling of the right wing Well. Can you say “Bob K”? I dont think Rove is such a darling these days, if he ever was. So, it’s ok when Rosemary M takes out Penny Pullen, but its NOT ok if a conservative takes out a moderate? Sorry, I dont’ choose to play that game. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 2:06 pm: ===I dont think Rove is such a darling these days, if he ever was.=== How revisionist of you. - Pat collins - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 2:07 pm: To state it plainly, in my opinion, Moderates started the GOP war here. If Christine R wants to make peace, I am willing to listen. But she ought to make the first move. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 2:13 pm: ===Moderates started the GOP war here.=== You’re on a revisionist roll here. When, exactly, did the war start? I look back at the primary campaign that Roeser ran against Edgar or even Steve Baer’s campaign as the approximate beginning of the “modern” war. - carbon deforestation - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 2:16 pm: Conservatives want to take out the moderates in a primary? Again? Please! Be my guest. - Partisan Dem - Larry Mullholland - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 2:22 pm: Rove is correct. But it’s not rocket science. The conservitive right wing in Illinois would prefer to lose a race with a conservative, than win with a moderate Repub candidate in Illinois. Unless and Until the right excepts that a conservative right winger cannot win and has not won statewide in Illinois for a long time it will not change. The democrats will continue to win no matter how many people are indicted without a moderate on the ticket. - Louis Howe - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 2:23 pm: A few years ago former Gov. Jim Edgar lectured at Harvard— his topic was “How to get appointed Secretary of State and have a great political career.” Somehow, I doubt whether Edgar’s political expertise is transferable. - Adam Smith - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 2:33 pm: Rich is absolutely right. Illinois had a solid moderate GOP wing with people like Railsback, Anderson (although he wigged out), Martin, McClory, Percy, Thompson, Oglivie and others. They weren’t perfect, but they were certainly better than high tax, high spending, pro-union, pro-trial lawyer, anti-free trade, pro-regulation, soft on crime, weak defense Democrats. In 1994, Baer and Roeser tried to oust one of the state’s most popular governors ever because all because of abortion. (I don’t want to hear the crap from the right wingers, that is ALL it was about.) And that was the beginning of the end of a competitive Illinois. The GOP began to lose suburban voters and have been barely competitive statewide since. In a two party system you had better be willing to be flexible or be forever relegated to the margins of politics. - Pat collins - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 2:33 pm: You’re on a revisionist roll here Not intentionally. I already mentioned the 1992 Mulligan Pullen primary. I could also add Lee Daniels and his sponsorship of people like Pat Reid Linder (who recently extended PP’s hold on that seat) in a district that would easily elected someone far to the right of her. How many Senate districts had someone like Chris Lauzen and yet two moderates in their house seats? Apart from improving Sen. Percy’s voting record, YDD has it right: I have no real interest in electing people like Ryan or Topinka, at least not when the house is full or PRL clones. I don’t see T Cross changing that, we will see about Chris R. - Shore - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 2:37 pm: As a Republican I like Karl Rove for saving us from Al Gore and John Kerry, but it’s hard for me to swallow anything that comes from him, Hastert, DeLay or any of the other swine that really took down our party the last few years. http://www.nationaljournal.com/njmagazine/nj_20081122_1504.php Ron Brownstein at the national journal has done a lot of great writing on this, including a column this week about how the GOP has been killed over the last 2 decades among suburban voters with college degrees. We need a positive agenda that makes our conservatism relevant, until we get it here, we are stuck. - EmptySuitParade - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 2:55 pm: WOW first the guy who needed about 20 votes to get elected headed of the national circular firing squad and Rove in IL in less than one week. That should really boost the troops Ha Ha Good luck …Keep it up - Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 3:12 pm: Pat - Correctly if I’m wrong, but was Chuck Percy ever a supporter of legalized abortion, gun control or gay rights? If so, I’ll put him in the “liberal” category… I’m with you — an unapologetic ideologue. I like Mike Madigan, but I’m a reformer and a liberal, not just a Democrat, which is why I supported Vallas over Rod, Obama over Hynes, Alexi over Mangieri, Reilly over Natarus. If conservatives were smart, they’d take over the Reform Party, and either sit back and watch the GOP starve for votes or beat the crap out of them until they come back to their senses. I had NO reservations about voting for the Green Party candidate, Rich Whitney, over Rod. - Railfan - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 3:13 pm: Shore @ 2:37: Oh, yes. Thank God he saved us from Al Gore and John Kerry. We’re so much better off today because those guys weren’t elected. Why, if we had been crazy enough to have done THAT, they would have begun a war of choice by invading a country that didn’t attack us on Sept. 11, 2001, while letting those who were responsible escape; they would have subverted and betrayed our fundamental liberties and the rule of law (how about that subpoena, Karl?), and shamed us before the world; they would have ignored overwhelming scientific evidence that global warming is a human-caused event and persecuted those scientists who disagreed; they would have let Wall Street rape and pillage our economy; they would have fiddled while New Orleans drowned; etc. We’re living in Karl’s world. And now, if you don’t mind too terribly much, President Obama has to clean up the mess. - Abe Lincoln - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 3:13 pm: Yellow Dog Democrat - It’s hilarious to continue seeing Democrats say Kirk is to moderate for Illinois conservatives. Case in point: he just stood up to Obama by voting no on the stimulus. These DCCC calls are actually giving him more creditability with his base. As Kirk continues the message of integrity and fiscal conservatism he will do a lot better with Republicans and the average voter. - clj - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 3:25 pm: I doubt the IL GOP can have much success in the next election if they say the same talking points some of the “leading” statewide candidates were using last night. “Mr. Rove, tell George Bush that he’s still my President and the I appreciate all that he did the last eight years…” (to loud applause) If you were there you know who said it. This is the type of rhetoric that will not work at someone’s door to sway their vote. Only once have I ever been asked to sit a voters kitchen table. Sure it was to the base, but that is essentially the problem! Get a real message people want to hear and believe. - Adam Smith - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 3:38 pm: YDD, consider yourself corrected. Percy supported abortion rights and some gun control. And in 1984, the last time he ran, gay rights were nowhere on the political radar screen. - Speaking at Will - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 3:46 pm: Honestly, Republicans in Illinois are dead. They have no heartbeat, and there are no political doctors (aka Rove) who can yell “clear” and shock this party back to life. When Madigan picked up house seats in 06, when everyone knew that Rod was dirty, I knew the jig was up. It wont matter if we have 10 more Rod Blagojevich governors. The everyday voter in Illinois is going to vote Democratic. The only way this state is going to change is when it finally collapses under the weight of its own bureaucratic gluttony. Only when the entire system breaks, will people realize that its time to deviate from the failed policies of the Illinois Democratic Party. So we can Mark Kirk this, or Peter Roskum that, Jim Edgar here and Karl Rove there, at the end of the day Republicans are DOA in Illinois. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 3:47 pm: Adam Smith is correct. - Dudeman - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 4:10 pm: Karl Rove is conservative? He is an architect of political strategy that has severly hurt national Republicans as well as local. The only conservative prinicple Rove used was national defense. His boss was not a fiscal conservative, look at their actions. Unity is overated if you get less than 50% of what you want. I’m looking for a fiscal conservative and that would meet half of my political hopes. IL machine politics wins elections, but it makes alot of people feel disenfranchised. Ego Sentio. - GOPvotecounter - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 4:16 pm: The GOP is where it is because of the GOP voters! some got tired of Thompson and his joining with the Chicago Democrats. If the GOP base were like Democrats winning would be the only thing people cared about but that is not what they want. They want to be able to trust their party to stand up for what they say they believe in. In 1998 supposedly 2 pro life pro gun conservatives were elected Ryan and Fitgerald. When the base found out Ryan was a Thompson retred the fight started. Thats what this has been about. Soon the Democrats will have to go through the same thing. After being in power for 27 years the GOP was corrupt. Nationally the party left Illinois behind, the fight has been between the new people who want to call themselves Republicans and the old ones who didn’t want the new people in the party. The old ones thought “why change what was working”? The new conservatives didn’t want just power but for the party to stand for something. That may sound goofy to some but for grassroots people who cared about their issue they didn’t care about power. The old days are gone as you can see by the reaction of the voters with the Blago debacle. Ham handed political bosses are or will be a thing of the past and the Dems will soon go through the same thing the GOP did. The next Governor will be a Republican and we could win the Senate seat as well. The dem’s are running the country like the 1930’s the problem is too many people are in the markets and invest, a us against them retoric will backfire. - Pat Collins - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 4:27 pm: Peter F was strong pro life, somewhat weak on guns. - GOPvotecounter - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 4:30 pm: Pat The dem’s beat him to death with the conceal carry law he sponsored!!! And his stand on pro life even for Rape and incest. Both are as far right as you can get and he won! - VanillaMan - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 4:36 pm: Illinois is not a conservative state and hasn’t been since 1929. Republicans that have been elected since that time had to connect with Illinois voters without using conservative language. Or, like Dirksen, proved himself to a point where voters chose him knowing he was a solid conservative. The Reagan Revolution went around Illinois. Thompson’s supporters saw him as an anecdote to Reagan. The Revolution came as a surprise to moderate Repubicans like the Illinois GOPers, because they were out of the Percy-Thompson-Anderson mold, Ford-Rockefeller Republicans, not the Reagan mold. Thompson not only predates Reagan - he outlasted him, ensuring that the Illinois GOP was innoculated from the conservative sweep most of America experienced. What we have been seeing since that time is the remnants of this group dropping out of existence. Topinka was the last of this group. This leaves us with two camps in the GOP circle - one that wishes to reflect what the national GOP supported, and the other who claims that it is too late to catch up with this political movement, and that Illinois wouldn’t have accepted the Reagan Revolution anyway. But the fact is, Illinois didn’t experience the Revolution, so it doesn’t have a foundation from which to draw conservative support. The Illinois GOP cannot point towards conservative successes from which to draw voter understanding - because it never happened here. So, does the GOP continue with a moderate Republican approach? Or, does it try to finally kickstart a 25 year old political movement? We see a split, and both camps have reasons to support their views. Considering how backwards the GOP has been in Illinois over the past thirty years, perhaps they should catch the political pendulum as it returns to a new conservative movement, and not chase short term political gains over the next decade. There is a huge gamble on Obama’s Supersize Government Approach that may bankrupt the US and be rejected by voters. If he flops as big as Carter did, the conservative may have an opening. Remember it took a Carter administration to justify the risk voters took in electing Reagan in 1980. A Obama fiasco could usher in another. - Ghost - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 4:38 pm: Republicans in IL need a strong leader internally to pull them together; then tey can concentrate on building a slate. They need a modern Illinois version of newt gingrich - T.J. - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 4:43 pm: “Conservatives are talking about taking Arlen Specter OUT in Pennsylvania; they sure as hell aren’t going to allow another liberal Republican to take his place in voting for Supreme Court Justices and federal judges.” Arlen Specter was the first to encourage Larry Craig and Roland Burris to stay in the Senate. Let me know when Mark Kirk does something stupid like that. - Mongo - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 4:48 pm: It was sad to watch the nw suburban R’s try to hard to get revenge against Paul Froelich for switching. So they backed a candidate that couldn’t win. Find a moderate! Find a moderate! Then help them raise funds to fight the incumbent in Froelich’s race, Crespo’s race, and so forth. - MikeintheSuburbs - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 5:09 pm: I am of the opinion that Motor Voter is more responsible for the Repub decline in this state than the Ryan scandals, although the latter certainly accelerated the process. Illinois was always a bellweather state and we had Repub govs continuously from Dan Walker until 2002. It took a few years for Motor Voter to take effect as people’s licenses were good for several years but between 1996 and 2002 is when we saw the shift. Now we are a solid Blue state nationally. I suspect that the larger number of hispanic voters who moved into the state and got drivers’ licenses made Illinois’s move toward the Dem side more pronounced than other states all of whom also saw Motor Voter go into effect. You may remember that Illinois under the Repulblican control in the mid 90’s actually tried to thwart the federal law and the state had to be sued. They knew what they were doing. I think the playing field has moved substantially as a result, and I don’t see it going back absent a Democratic debacle at the national level. - Joe - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 6:08 pm: IMHO, Until the GOP is a true “big tent” where you don’t have to pass an abortion litnus test they’ll just have to sit on the sidelines. I’m tired of “born agains” who spend like drunken sailors. - Honest Abe - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 6:56 pm: Nice snark, Rich! Karl Rove had a record of winning elections with a less than perfect candidate in George W. Bush. The Republican brand was damaged in Illinois before W. made it to Washington. The GOP has not carried the state in a presidential race in twenty years which was long before Rove achieved prominence. Obviously, Rove DOES deserve the blame for promoting and maintaining the career of the none too popular Robert Kjellander as head of the Illinois Republican Committee. - Bruno Behrend - Tuesday, Feb 24, 09 @ 11:11 pm: Rich, While I’ve been arguing that Rove was overrated for quite a while, Edgar’s model has been more of a failure here in Illinois than not. Like it or not, the last two statewides to win here ran as conservatives. Now, maybe that can’t happen again, maybe it it can, but pardon us conservatives if we don’t rush to take the advice of has-beens like Edgar, Thompson & Topinka. My view of many of the cynical and jaundiced lefties here on CapFax is that they view anyone even slightly to the right of Gavin Newsome as a “right-wing nutjob,” so pardon me if I take their prognostications with a grain of salt. Republicans in Illinois have some simple choices. They might believe the echo chamber, which tells them that “only a moderate can win.” (moderate being some one who is very far to the left socially, and afraid to even propose a spending cut) OTOH, they might think that their party has “moderated” itself into oblivion with weak leaders, a total lack of ideas, and lead by a bunch of pension seeking patronage hacks. For my part, I think YDD nailed it re: conservatives having no reason to support such so-called “moderates.” It’s much more fun watching the Blago/Burris show and last year’s “chamber wars.” While I understand the “conventional wisdom” here on CapFax sees it differently, the fact is that most social conservatives I know are less interested in “litmus tests” than they are in having a seat at the table. The ILL GOP leadership here in IL has no interest in even talking to us. Their view is that we should shut up, vote, and write checks. While the Dems have the luxury of their coalition hanging together on election day so they can fight over the spoils later, many of us on the right have no interest in such patronage, and therefore no interest in helping the failing and flailing party built by Thompson, Edgar, and their job/contract-seeking progeny. - T.J. - Wednesday, Feb 25, 09 @ 10:51 am: “The ILL GOP leadership here in IL has no interest in even talking to us. Their view is that we should shut up, vote, and write checks.” I have noticed that here. Thirty years of fighting the stereotype this is a country club, all down the drain. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.