56 Comments - Amalia - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 12:06 pm: wondering if the State Senator will be consistent in questioning firearms with such pointed work. - Judgment Day - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 12:08 pm: Here’s a Trib article on use of Tasers: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-01-01/news/ct-met-taser-use-increases-20120101_1_tasers-electroshock-weapons-doubts-surface - Downstater - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 12:11 pm: =they appear to be used disproportionately against minorities.= What evidence you have to make this statement? - Judgment Day - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 12:15 pm: “….State Senator will be consistent in questioning firearms with such pointed work.” Looks to me as if that’s exactly what Sen. Duffy is doing. For guns (even in law enforcement), there are rules and procedures. For tasers, not so much - depends upon where you are located, and what rules and procedures are applied to tasers, if any. - Rich Miller - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 12:17 pm: ===What evidence you have to make this statement?=== Click the link and see for yourself. - Small Town Liberal - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 12:21 pm: - Click the link and see for yourself. - C’mon Rich, that proves nothing, everyone knows the Daily Herald is just a bleeding heart, commie rag. In all seriousness, 667 of the 710 people tasered by CPD last year were black. I have a hard time believing that’s just a coincidence. - Yossarian Lives - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 12:25 pm: Maybe there’s a logical argument for more restrictions on Tasers and fewer on guns. Or maybe this story just illustrates the impact on politicians of personal relationships and seeing past policies to people. Good for Sen. Duffy for getting outside his comfort zone. - Esteban - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 12:28 pm: They are, in many instances, lethal weapons and should be treated as such. - Formerly Known As... - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 12:31 pm: Tasers have killed people, just as guns have. Davis had some decent ideas. Duffy may as well. Improving police training and evaluating how these self defense weapons are being used could help prevent senseless deaths. Sad to hear about Duffy’s friend and the way he passed. From a separate report: “He was taken to Roseland Hospital, where he became aggressive, and officers Tasered him again, police said. A police source said medical personnel had given Coleman a sedative after he was Tasered at the hospital to calm him down. He was pronounced dead at the hospital at 5:47 p.m., according to the Cook County medical examiner’s office. Percy Coleman said his son was Tasered three times. The Cook County medical examiner’s office has not released autopsy results.” - Precinct Captain - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 12:32 pm: “The death of a friend he made on a quest to learn more about the needs of black communities has inspired a suburban state senator to look into authoring legislation regulating the use of Tasers.” The operative part is “on a quest to learn more about the needs of black communities.” Who would have thought that speaking to people, having sincere meetings with them, and listening to them would have been a way to change views or at least lead to unexpected ones. - youre-it - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 12:35 pm: Does the NRA represent TASER as a manufacturer? Or does NRA see TASER as a competitor to its gun manufacturers? - Precinct Captain - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 12:35 pm: @Small Town Liberal Your explanation for the “taser gap” is as credible as explanations for the “grass gap.” White people never act rowdy around the police. http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/chicago-marijuana-arrest-statistics/Content?oid=4198958 - Wensicia - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 12:35 pm: Concern for instruments not meant to kill is important. The need for more concern on who handles weapons that are meant to kill is also important. I’m for stricter guidelines and training for both. - wordslinger - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 12:36 pm: Can’t they dial those things down, if the idea is to subdue, presumably an unarmed person? - Precinct Captain - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 12:38 pm: Sorry STL, I re-read your comment and I see the jest. - USMCJanitor - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 12:49 pm: Taser use is complicated. In a firearm you know a projectile will speed out of the weapon and impact or pierce what the weapon was aimed out. Use of a gun is considered deadly force EVERY TIME. Even if it was a small gun (like a .22) fired at someone’s feet… even and impact at close range in that setup is very unlikely to cause death. But a taser. The problem there lies in how its sold. if it is SOLD and treated like a deadly weapon I have no problem requiring licensing and training just like a firearm. But generally tasers are either NOT regulated much or completely limited to law enforcement as a “less than lethal” option. Though tasers can kill, and improper application of the weapons can do serious damage. They should be treated like any other person on person weapon but often aren’t. - USMCJanitor - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 1:01 pm: Rich, you stated: “Just call me stunned that a pro 2nd Amendment guy like Duffy would be willing to impose such restrictions on what the police deem to be a self-defense weapon.” Just because you are pro 2nd amendment doesnt mean you dont want training for people. Its like saying since you’re pro second amendment you dont want police training on handguns, or rifles, or how to handcuff… Deploying tasers is often used to subdue a subject, and lots of times works just fine. But there are deaths and police aren’t as afraid to use it since its not considered deadly force. People that are not pro-2A often just assume Pro-2A people are raving lunatics that want no controls, training, regs at all. Showing your bias there a hair? - Judgment Day - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 1:15 pm: “Can’t they dial those things down, if the idea is to subdue, presumably an unarmed person?” Doesn’t look like it. Tasers are battery operated, and function kind of like an electrical pulse weapon. Here’s a wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser Besides, from a LE standpoint, that would be one added step in an already stressful situation. What happens if they accidentally dial it up? IMO, just make LE rules the same - gun use vrs. taser use. - Ahoy! - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 1:24 pm: It does make a lot of sense to ensure police (and anyone else who operates a taser) have just as much training with a taser as they would a gun. In essence, they can both do the same thing, kill someone, and should be treated as a weapon. - Blowback - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 1:36 pm: In Illinois Tasers are treated the same as firearms under the Criminal Code. I haven’t figured out yet how to “unload” a taser for carry in a case, but I’m sure it will involve a trip to the ER. - Skeeter - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 1:53 pm: Too bad that Duffy wasn’t friends with 500 people from Chicago. But in any case, the idea that there is some consistency between consistently opposing gun regulations and now support Taser regulations is a joke. Any argument made to one can be applied to the other. This seems to go to a deeper problem in Springfield though. Nobody requires that our leaders act in a coherent manner. Duffy will take these positions and get re-elected. Why give anything any thought? The voters don’t care. - Mark - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 2:05 pm: One potential hurdle in getting tasers treated as fully-lethal is that the academy requires everyone to get tazed. I’m not suggesting I have a solution - simply pointing out that it’s hard to tell cops, on one hand “You need to treat each taser deployment as a potentially-lethal use of force”, while on the other telling them “Being tazed is mostly safe, and a requirement for your employment.” - Obamas Puppy - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 2:05 pm: The reason is that there is no NTA (National Taser Association). - Just Observing - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 2:06 pm: I don’t see his positions as irrational. There does seem to be an issue of otherwise law abiding citizens (in this case police officers) possibly overusing tasers . The numbers of otherwise law abiding citizens shooting people when its not needed is pretty limited. - Endangered Moderate Species - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 2:09 pm: -the idea that there is some consistency between consistently opposing gun regulations and now support Taser regulations- Skeeter- You are building a straw man. Making sure that law enforcement is specially trained in the use of their weapons is not the same as restricting gun ownership. This is like correlating stronger driver’s training laws with regulations on car ownership. - Liandro - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 2:11 pm: I agree with Sen. Duffy, and have long held that tasers are used too easily, at times, by some law enforcement. I am also a huge supporter of the 2nd Amendment, and of concealed carry in particular. I have no idea why regulating taser use within the law enforcement community is incongruent with the 2nd Amendment. We don’t let government run around beating or shooting people wantonly, do we? Why would using a taser be any different? As many above have mentioned, law enforcement takes (or should take the use of any weapon very seriously. Huge social problems have began when preocedures are violated. So yes, scrutiny should be put on law enforcement use of tasers. These are potentially dangerous weapons being used by government agencies on citizens. - Skeeter - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 2:17 pm: Endangered: “We need to look at stricter guidelines and training regarding the use and power of these weapons.” Take Taser out of that, put handgun in, and see how Duffy responds. - Blowback - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 2:19 pm: The autopsy of Coleman stated “inconclusive”. He died shortly after being sedated while in police custody. There isn’t a bit of evidence that the Taser killed him. Speaking as a paramedic - Taser deaths are usually due to a cardiac event after the shock is delivered. The condition Coleman presented is referred to as “Excited Delirium” and can be brought on by a number of factors, including the use of substances like PCP. (I AM NOT SUGGESTING THIS IS THE CASE.) In my, admittedly uninformed, opinion if the Taser caused the death it would have resulted in a sudden collapse followed by a missing pulse and no breathing. The news articles clearly state he was tased twice, continued to persist and he was sedated. Does any of that have anything to do with the discussion at hand? Actually.. no.. I yield the floor. - Small Town Liberal - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 2:21 pm: - is incongruent with the 2nd Amendment. - You’re missing the point. Do you see Duffy or the NRA pushing for ANY new guidelines or restrictions regarding firearms? No, you don’t. - civil - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 2:25 pm: Well intentioned but misguided. Taser regulation is much like “gun control” a band-aid over a scab of poverty, hopelessness and criminal recidivism in certain geographic locations. Social reform. Bootstrap programs. Tools for a demographic to free themselves. Freedom from the plague of violence in their community. That path is difficult. Attack at the source. Our leaders have a record of band-aids rather than real fixes. - USMCJanitor - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 2:31 pm: Small town, there are 20,000 laws on the books nationwide on guns. In Illinois with regards to firearms there are plenty of laws about everything like: transport when hunting transport when not hunting purchasing, gun shows, selling, lethal use of force laws, storage in the home, range usage, etc, etc, etc I guess if a politician is pro 2A then he can never ask that there be training and rules around deployment of ANY weapon the police have huh? what about the choke holds that were all big in the 80’s and 90’s? I worked as a SD county sheriff’s deputy for a bit in california and we all and to be re-trained after departments starting banning choke holds because too many citizens (guilty or not) were being hurt or killed by them… So if a politician wanted more training on when and how to properly apply the choke hold was it useless to hear it from him because he may be Pro-2A? You antis will look for anything to try to show hypocrisy even stretching to this point where someone is pointing out that the citizens are the ones harmed here… Puuulllleeeeezzzzeeee.. - Todd - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 2:32 pm: Tasers re considered less than lethal force and so get treated differently. But there seems to be a body of evidense that says they are more lethal than the PR campaigns suggest. So there is/have been calls for more guidelines on the use of them. USMC is right that the minute you employ a firearm,mit is considered deadly force. No i don’t do work for taser. As i recall, their lobbyist once upon a time was a guy named John wyma and was the one that mucked up the FOID card act with tasers. - wordslinger - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 2:32 pm: –If the south side has three to four times as many police as the north side guess what you will have more police encounters on the south side. This will lead to more tickets, weed arrests and taser uses.– I don’t think I’ve ever seen it suggested that there are that many more police officers on the South and West Sides. Redeployment of police has been notoriously difficult in Chicago. The Sun-Times had a story last week. http://www.suntimes.com/17223801-761/rahm-emanuels-police-deployment-shuffle.html - OneMan - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 2:33 pm: The question in part is, how much death are we willing to accept in part to enable law enforcement to bring people under control with less risk to law enforcement that the ability to use something that can ‘take someone down’ in a less lethal way than a firearm and with lower risk to law enforcement than a direct physical confrontation. - wordslinger - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 2:34 pm: Janitor, just because someone asks a question you don’t like doesn’t prove bias. Believe it or not, someone can even disagree with you and arrive at that position honestly. Not everyone is out to get you. - Fed up - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 2:39 pm: The disparity in taser use among racial groups mirrors the murder rates among racial groups. The high crime neighborhoods in the city have a much larger contingent of police ( and are screaming for more) these areas are largely minority so these area have a more frequent encounter with police. The result is more tickets, more weed arrests, more encounters that end in taser use. Also many of these areas have younger less experienced police, more training is always a good thing, but tasers are popular because using night sticks and fists result in more injuries to the offender and the officer. - USMCJanitor - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 2:40 pm: word, its the “gotcha” that is implied that is sickening. - JoeVerdeal - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 2:48 pm: The difficulty with Tasers and “stun gun” weapons is that they are sometimes used more liberally because they are considered to be “non-lethal.” The abusive use of Tasers by law enforcement suggests that a standard should be set for training for their use. Until the requisite training is received by law enforcement personnel, they should not be allowed to carry these weapons. It is amazing how powerful these electric weapons are. I have had a couple of jolts from one. Frankly, I am much more comfortable around conventional handguns than I am being around a person who is armed with a Taser or a stun gun. - Small Town Liberal - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 2:49 pm: - You antis will look for anything - Not sure what you mean by “antis”, I’m a gun owner and personally don’t really care much about the issue. It is just strange to see a strong NRA backer proposing any new guidelines for a weapon because of the potential lethality of it. If he was proposing any new guidelines on firearms he would be crucified by the NRA right now. That’s all I’m trying to say. - wordslinger - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 2:56 pm: –The result is more tickets, more weed arrests, more encounters that end in taser use– I think they just ticket for weed now, don’t they? And I don’t know if anyone with a head full of weed is going to start taking swings at cops, anyway. - Fed up - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 2:56 pm: Word, Yes their are easily that many more officers patrolling high crime areas ( mostly south and west sides). You have to count officers working in the districts and all the specialized units sent to the districts plus the officers working those districts on their days off for overtime. Many so called low crime districts don’t have enough officer assigned to man all their assigned beats. It is a tough juggling act to try and balance the manpower needs of the different communities. - Fed up - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 3:01 pm: Word they only ticket for weed if the offender has an ID. And like for voting it is often just to difficult to get an ID. I do agree that most people who are under the influence of just weed are not overly violent. Yet any encounter with the police raises stress levels and can result in crazy behavior. People flip out over parking tickets much less the thought of getting handcuffs put on. - OneMan - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 3:13 pm: I think they just ticket for weed now, don’t they? And I don’t know if anyone with a head full of weed is going to start taking swings at cops, anyway. Worked security in college in a dorm, the stoners were never a problem, it was the drunks. The stoners were more entertaining, once had a dude empty 12 pockets (I started counting) to find his ID, made my night. - CircularFiringSquad - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 3:20 pm: Sen DandyDan must really be said since it took him nearly two months to utter the first peep on the problem…waasn’t this the mutt who wanted to utlaw redlight cameras? Or was that another braintruster? - Demoralized - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 3:33 pm: I was threatened with a taser once by a cop and there was no particular reason that the taser should have ever been removed from it’s holster. I think it’s more of an issue of training for law enforcement. They shouldn’t be used as a weapon unless absolutely necessary - kind of like the use of deadly force with a firearm. It shouldn’t be a tool they grab for simply because somebody might be giving them some lip. If you have that many anger issues maybe you shouldn’t be in law enforcement. - Bob - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 3:41 pm: Tasers are less than lethal weapons. But some agency’s allow officers to use tasers, routinely. Some police use them say, when you don’t get out of the vehicle quick enough. They are used when a civilian does not obey the orders of the officers. Officers are not allowed to beat people anymore but, can now use a tazer. There needs to be restrictions on thier use and for every use of a tazer a written report should be filed with the states attorney. I work in Law enforcement,and am sorry to say but I see the tazer being abused. If an officer can use his tazer without restriction on anyone, I see this as use of excessive force. The use of the tazer should be limited to self defense only. - Jim - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 3:46 pm: No mystery. he just does not want to use abusive use of Tasers, not at all inconsistent with supporting the Second Amendment. - Jim - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 3:48 pm: No mystery. he just does not want to see abusive use of Tasers, not at all inconsistent with supporting the Second Amendment. - Bill of Rights - Monday, Feb 4, 13 @ 4:04 pm: I’ve never heard that the NRA or its supporters have ever been in favor of unbridled police force. In fact, if you polled NRA members, their trust of law enforcement is probably less than the general population. Not only is Duffy’s position not inconsistent, it’s entirely predictable. In the Bill of Rights we primarily have rights spelled out. But it’s noteworthy that it also has restrictions on law enforcement. - City Slicker - Tuesday, Feb 5, 13 @ 8:32 am: This gentleman has a friend killed by a Taser and wants to improve laws regarding their use. Again, the anti-gun crowd crows “Why isn’t he doing anything about guns”. That is not his point - its Tasers. So enough with the “We aren’t out to get your guns” agruement. You are every time you see a chance and are critizing a guy trying to improve a situation where there is very little oversight. - Blowback - Tuesday, Feb 5, 13 @ 9:11 am: — This gentleman has a friend killed by a Taser and wants to improve laws regarding their use. Again, the anti-gun crowd crows “Why isn’t he doing anything about guns”. That is not his point - its Tasers. So enough with the “We aren’t out to get your guns” agruement. You are every time you see a chance and are critizing a guy trying to improve a situation where there is very little oversight. — Ok there are a couple of false statements. He wasn’t “killed by a taser”. He died at the hospital after becoming combative and sedated. The autopsy did not show the taser killed him. Secondly - “very little oversight” If you read 720 ILCS/5 I posted above you will see that Tasers are regulated as “deadly weapons” and are subject to EVERY GUN LAW in Illinois just like firearms. This episode is political grandstanding. In Champaign we had a HUGE outcry from a social justice group when CPD asked to carry Tasers. They were painted as “torture” and “cruel”. Within months a tragic shooting happened where a young man was killed by an officer’s weapon. The same group erupted in protest about that. Having said that… I agree completely that Taser use should be subject to the same use-of-force policies as any other police weapon. To those who would suggest the Taser was deployed improperly I’d ask what other option do you think the police have when a subject erupts, beating a 69 year old woman, attacking hospital workers and endangering himself? It has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment. It’s all about hypocrisy and election rhetoric. Without Tasers the only remaining option is baton or gun. Which would be better? - Blowback - Tuesday, Feb 5, 13 @ 9:39 am: “Race, Ethnicity, and Policing: New and Essential Readings” by Rice and White - a comprehensive review of police actions and racial bias… This book, along with a number of studies (a cursory search of “taser” and “minorities” on scholar.google.com will bring up a number of peer-reviewed studies) have reviewed hundreds of TASER use incidents. Most research was focused on New York City. They found that TASER usage, while higher among blacks, was proportional to arrest rate. They don’t draw any conclusions except to say that the NY data does NOT indicate that TASERS are used more often on black suspects than white suspects. You can argue all day about why blacks are arrested more often. This is a valid question IMHO, however, that book along with several other studies I read indicate that the MEDIA tends to report more minority tasing incidents, but reviewing the arrest data and police reports show that TASERS are used equally among the race of suspects. The primary factor influencing TASER use was aggressive behavior on the part of the suspect. I believe every leg this initial statement in the article stands on is incorrect. I can only conclude it is political rhetoric. - Blowback - Tuesday, Feb 5, 13 @ 9:42 am: CLARIFICATION - by “higher among blacks” I mean the data showed 75% of TASER use by police was on black suspects, but that also corresponds with the rate of arrest of black suspects. The only conclusion stated is that TASERS are used on black/hispanic/white in the same proportion as arrests of black/hispanic/white. NOTHING ELSE is implied by the author or by me. - Blowback - Tuesday, Feb 5, 13 @ 9:53 am: “Very little oversight…” Special Order S03-02-02 / Chicago Police Department I reviewed the Taser policy of CPD and the procedure when a Taser is deployed is EXACTLY the same as a firearm discharge: Call a supervisor, call the paramedics, call the crime scene technicians, turn over the weapon for inspection, fill out the same report as a firearm discharge, complete an alcohol breath test, supervisor initiates a disciplinary investigation…. etc…. The oversight is the same - gun or Taser. - Skirmisher - Tuesday, Feb 5, 13 @ 10:08 am: Okay, I will take a shot at enlightening you. Cops have used a taser at least once in this town to kill an unarmed man, with no great consequences to them. Had the same cop pulled his pistol and popped this guy, even the all-powerful police union would have a hard time keeping him out of trouble. Tasers are now used by police like they used to use guns in the 1930s, except with a Get Out of Jail Free card. - Blowback - Tuesday, Feb 5, 13 @ 1:39 pm: @Skirmisher - If that was for me I’m not sure I understand. I’d love to respond in a meaningful way but I don’t get what you are saying. What town? What cops? What unarmed man? I understand if you are giving a rhetorical opinion and I certainly recognize your right to frustration. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.