* From a recent Illinois State Rifle Association “special alert”…
The second subcategory of gun control’s true believers can be described generally as victims of violence. This subcategory encompasses a wide range of persons to include families of murder victims as well as first hand survivors of violence. Whereas the vast majority of victims of violence do their best to recover and get on with their lives, there is a minority who allow their grief to turn into seething bitterness. Rather than make a positive contribution to prevent future violence, they embark on divisive, hate-filled campaigns against lawful firearm owners.
These victims of violence are ideal advocates for the abolishment of private firearm ownership. On the surface, they are vulnerable and weepy-eyed. But, below the surface, they are boiling over with hatred for people who own guns. That deep hatred fuels their drive to do whatever it takes to punish lawful gun owners.
These victims of violence are all about payback, and the payback they seek won’t be meted out to the criminals by whom they were victimized. No, the objects of their ire are the tens of millions of hunters, sportsmen and target shooters who responsibly exercise their right to keep and bear arms. These victims of violence claim that their campaign for domestic disarmament has the best interests of the public at heart. Chances are, these people couldn’t care less if others suffer the same fate as theirs. In fact, additional acts of violence only serve to justify their calls for the abolishment of private firearm ownership.
These people love the limelight. That is why they reside in the top positions in the Illinois gun control movement. That is why they take every opportunity to get in front of the cameras, tell their stories, and then mercilessly bash law-abiding firearm owners.
The most effective way to deal with these people is to meet them head-on. When they have a public meeting, the audience needs to be flooded with firearm owners. When they have a media event, the media needs to see more gun guys than anti-gunners. We need to confront them at every turn and vigorously defend the constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms.
Like pacifists, debating these people is pointless. They have dedicated their lives to destroying the 2nd Amendment. They cannot be reasoned with. They cannot be educated.
- soccermom - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 9:51 am:
Yeah, I know lots of people who would willingly sacrifice those that they love the most in order to get 15 minutes of fame. Those lucky, lucky Newtown parents…
Is someone hacking the ISRA email list? I assume this is a massive dirty trick by anti-gun activists who are trying to make the ISRA look horrible.
- Chris - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 9:53 am:
“Is someone hacking the ISRA email list?”
Nah, the ISRA leadership is just populated by Manchurian Candidates who have been ‘activated’.
- Namaste - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 9:55 am:
Wow. The callousness is stunning. reinforces the belief that ISRA folks care about nothing except their fanatical love of guns.
- wordslinger - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 9:57 am:
A valuable lesson in social anthropology. Thank you, doctors.
I’m wondering: is there any “sub-category” that can be educated or reasoned with? Just who are these folks that they claim they’ve been making all those compromises with on conceal-carry?
I’d be fascinated to read the authors’ description of their “sub-category.”
- G. Willickers - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 9:57 am:
The general public will never even know these sorts of official communications are being publicized…
Thus, ISRA (and NRA, and GOA, etc.) continue to produce them ad nauseum.
- Ray del Camino - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 9:59 am:
Some sympathy–anywhere–for moms and dads whose babies were slaughtered in their school by a psycho with an assault weapon? Anywhere?
Have you ever once heard a Newtown parent advocate for the “abolishment [sic] of private firearm ownership”? Even once?
These guys are so over the top–at what point do they begin to hurt their own cause?
As a lawful gun-owner, I don’t feel as though I am having a hate-filled campaign waged against me. Does anyone? Really?
- Anonymous - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:01 am:
Most anti-gun people direct their ire towards guns, not law-abiding gun owners. They are upset with gun manufacturers, who put greater and greater firepower into the marketplace and channel money to their mouthpieces in the NRA, ISRA, etc. They are upset with gun store owners who turn a blind eye to shenanigans with straw purchasers. They are upset with gun shows where sales are made without background checks. With respect to gunowners, the only ire directed towards them is if (1) they’re careless with their guns or (2) they support the gun manufacturers, gun shop owners and gun show sellers in their extreme positions.
- Liberty_First - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:03 am:
Rich only seems to see the world through political eyes.
- Charlatan Heston - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:06 am:
Rich, Wow just wow. Where do you get this stuff? I belong to ISRA and don’t receive it nor do I see it on their site.
- anon sequitor - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:07 am:
I second the above.
- anon sequitor - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:07 am:
Oops, Charlatan got in before me.
I second anonymous 1001
- Chavez-respecting Obamist - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:08 am:
These people are making me re-think my stance towards gun laws. I’m getting closer to becoming a gun-grabber with every special alert they put out. I don’t see why I have to be reasonable if they’re not going to be.
- Rich Miller - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:09 am:
===Where do you get this stuff?===
From: isranotices@isra.org
Subject: ISRA Friday Quick Quip 04-26-2013
Date: April 26, 2013 8:05:15 PM CDT
To: capitolfax@aol.com
Reply-To: isranotices@isra.org
- HenryVK - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:09 am:
It really is time for the Todd and the NRA to stand up and oppose these statements by the ISRA.
The ISRA is doing more for gun control than the Brady Campaign. Every time I read one of the ISRA’s angry blasts, I want to tell my state rep. to support all conceivable gun control measures, since we need to keep hands out of the insane people of the ISRA.
- Grandson of Man - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:11 am:
Don’t these people realize that many who want gun reform support the Second Amendment and are gun owners, or like me, aspiring gun owners? They’re nihilists. You can’t have freedom without responsibility.
So they want to flood anti-gun meetings, but the vast majority of Americans support responsible background checks. In my case, I don’t have the illusion that background checks will prevent every gun homicide or crime, but if some lives can be saved, it’s more than worth it.
The Newtown kids and adults were mowed down in a matter of minutes with I believe over a hundred rounds, and the ISRA is saying that their grief is superficial? I will never re-join this organization.
- morrocco_mole - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:14 am:
Unfortunately, the ISRA and other gun rights groups - as well as our politicians - spend little time discussing the *actual* problem here, which is not gun violence. Gun violence is a symptom of the actual problem: a black market for drugs, which, let’s be honest, is government-caused. Prohibition did not work with alcohol and will never work with drugs. Drug users have mental health issues that need addressing, not prison sentences. People will always find ways to get drugs, legal or not. Laws establishing mandatory minimums for use and trafficking drive the cost of drugs way up beyond their production value. *This* is why gang bangers need guns - illegal guns - in order to protect their territory.
The “War on Drugs” is now over 40 years old and there has never been a dip in usage or availability. We spend billions on it to no avail. A private prison and law enforcement industry has grown up around drug prohibition that actually spends millions on lobbying for laws that put more and more people in prison each year. We are approaching the scale of Stalin’s gulags at this point. And for what?
If you were a doctor and you treated the symptoms instead of the disease all of your patients would be dead. This is exactly how the fight over “gun violence” is playing out. We have non-solutions from everyone.
- RealityR-Us - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:17 am:
I could not disagree with Ray del Camino more. Gun owners are a persecuted minority.
The events in Conn. last year have given the haters an occasion to come out into the open.
- MrJM - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:17 am:
Gun proponents, your cause has been hijacked by twisted perverts.
– MrJM
- Chicago Cynic - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:18 am:
Wow. I’m practically speechless as this is just astonishing, even for these nutjobs. How could any human being listen to the Newtown (or Aurora, etc.) parents with their heartfelt grief and conclude that they are “hate-filled” folks who want to “abolish private firearm ownership.” It just defies my capacity as a human being to comprehend such rage and delusion.
Even more sad is that these people actually have political power. Wow.
- Chicago Cynic - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:19 am:
RealityR-US, are you trying to be funny or do you actually mean those words?
- Lil Squeezy - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:20 am:
For any reporter out there looking for a story, I think this falls under the “good one” sub-category. State Rifle Association Says Victims Love the Limelight. Or ISRA: Victims Couldn'’t Care Less About Others”
Sounds like an Onion article. One Victim said, “I just love all of the attention I have received since my child was murdered! OMG, I hope I don’t look fat on camera!!! Lols” Another victim, “Yeah I like being on TV. It’s really the only reason I am advocating for background checks. I could care less if others suffer the same fate as me.”
- Aldyth - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:21 am:
When you live in a universe where all communication takes place in a closed loop, you’re going to get pretty egocentric over time. Only information from the chosen few has credibility and anything that conflicts with it must be disregarded. No wonder this group comes across as paranoid and dysfunctional, with no room to be reasoned with.
- Tequila Mockingbird - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:24 am:
Morroco, its nice to see your true comments here and I agree. What a pleasant contrast to the usual spewing here whenever guns are the topic.
- Demoralized - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:25 am:
I love that line: “these people love the limelight.” Pot, meet kettle. The ISRA certainly doesn’t love the limelight. The ISRA might have more credibility if they didn’t constantly put out nonsense like this. If they think it helps their cause other than with people who already believe the kind of looney stuff they put out in these statements they are sorely mistaken. Disagree with the ISRA and you hate the 2nd Amendment. I love rational people. Too bad the ISRA doesn’t fit that category. They aren’t even in the rational universe.
- Colossus - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:26 am:
“Listen, and understand. (The gun control movement) is out there. It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.”
And if your name is Sarah Connor and you own a gun, you might as well give up right now.
- wordslinger - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:26 am:
–The events in Conn. last year have given the haters an occasion to come out into the open.–
“The events?” What was it, a track meet? A film festival? An art show?
Certainly, when discussing the ISRAs learned and highly descriptive exposition on political sub-categories you could be a little more specific.
Like “haters.” You used that. Very categorical and specific.
- Amalia - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:26 am:
@Henry VK, yup.
though side by side, what would the differences be in the positions of the ISRA and the NRA on Illinois matters? the only difference is the tactics, right? so Todd looks reasonable by comparison but not actually different on the issues.
- Rich Miller - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:31 am:
===The events in Conn. last year have given the haters an occasion to come out into the open===
As clearly shown by ISRA’s own words.
- HenryVK - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:32 am:
Yes Amalia, I think the one significant difference is tactics.
But that is huge. You have people like me who do not own guns and who do not want guns, but due to libertarian leanings would still support gun rights. When Todd talks, I listen because he’s usually pretty calm.
But given that I don’t own guns and don’t want to, when I hear the ISRA talk I really want to go the opposite way.
How they present the issue makes a huge difference.
- Cincinnatus - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:33 am:
If “these people” were the advocates that use the unfortunate victims of illegal gun violence as props, the ISRA would be much less vulnerable to criticism.
Alas…
- hisgirlfriday - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:35 am:
The second subcategory of gun anarchy’s true believers can be described generally as radicals of resentment. This subcategory encompasses a wide range of persons to include employees of gun manufacturers as well as first hand perpetrators of violence. While the vast majority of gun owners do their best to enjoy firearms safely and responsibly as just one part of their lives, there is a minority who allow their fear to turn into seething paranoia. Rather than make a positive contribution to promote responsible freedom, they embark on divisive, hate-filled campaigns against people of differing viewpoints.
- train111 - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:35 am:
morroco_mole is right on the money here.
We have all these hyperventilated emails out of the NRA and the ISRA and then the same from the anti-gun crowd and in the end it is all for nothing.
Whether we have concealed carry,or don’t have concealed carry in Illinois and Chicago, in the end it will amount to nothing. It will not effect crime in any way, despite how any of the ‘true believers’ on either side may doctor the statistics. It will have no effect because it does nothing to address any of the actual issues. The drug trade and the easy money made from it are probably the biggest ones in Chicago. Concealed carry does nothing to address it.
- Will Caskey - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:39 am:
Again, I applaud this. This is the logical conclusion of the gun lobby’s raison d’etre, namely their strong feelings re gun ownership are more important than other people dying.
More honesty, less diplomacy please.
- Greatplainser - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:40 am:
Maybe the ISRA’s grand strategy is to get people to debate them, not gun issues. Seems to be working.
- Darienite - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:40 am:
Yesterday, I voted I didn’t think the head of the IRSA should resign. Can I change my answer?
- 47th Ward - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:44 am:
The purpose of e-mails like this is simple: keep the members engaged, fearful and poised for action. It’s part of an indoctrination campaign that is borderline brainwashing. It is designed to ensure a large and growing group that will respond to pleas for money and political action. It is religious dogma and serves to create a sense of group identity, an “us versus them” mentality. It is predicated on fear and the myth that gun control is a necessary first step that will result in the abolition of gun rights.
And on those points, it is very well done. It is also so over-the-top and paranoid that it practically invites insurrection and potentially violent reaction to maintain the status quo of easy access to firearms with almost no accountability.
And on this point, it is very dangerous.
- wordslinger - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:46 am:
–If “these people” were the advocates that use the unfortunate victims of illegal gun violence as props, the ISRA would be much less vulnerable to criticism.–
Props. What nasty BS.
The victims who choose to tell their story and advocate their position in public do just that — choose.
No one forces them to do so.
You just don’t want to see them or hear what they have to say about these massacres — or “the events” as some like to call them.
- Rufus - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:48 am:
OMG! Let me get this straight, you or a member of your family is a victim of violence and you develop a deep hatred of any one with a gun (or knife, or stick).
Wow! Beem me up Scotty.
- RNUG - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:50 am:
It’s not just the drugs, even they are partially a symphtom of a larger problem. It’s the whole societal breakdown that has occurred. Lack of jobs, lack of parenting, poor schools, lack of respect for the law, etc. which all contribute to the creation of gangs that need funding.
We can argue over why this has occurred, and even the possible solutions, but I think we can all agree the current solutions aren’t working.
The guns are simply a tool, nothing more or less.
The 2A defenders are viewing this through a prism of government distrust. Given the constitutional abuses by both political parties over the past decades, there is a reason for people to have that viewpoint.
- OneMan - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:51 am:
I guess the thing I am missing here is ‘why’. Why go after these folks? Why complain about them to your list? Do you think a member of the ISRA is going to be influenced by them?
The key to convincing people, is to convince them fundamentally that your argument is correct, not that the other guy’s argument is wrong or comes from the wrong place.
But questioning the motivation of others because of where they are coming from all the more so when it would appear to people that their motivation comes from personal tragedy seems ignorant and useless.
At the end of the day guys, I suspect you are trying to convince people like me (who are generally suspicious of gun control) why the limitation on magazine size and why background checks are an unfair limit on freedom.
If that is your goal, complaining about your critics is not the way to do it.
- Anon - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 10:56 am:
Argh for the love of god!
I said it yesterday. I’m an NRA member and avid gun rights supporter.
But there is a RIGHT way and a WRONG way to go about this. Discussing how proposed reforms WOULD NOT have prevented tragedies is the right way. Delving deep and attacking the families of victims is the WRONG way.
- 47th Ward - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 11:10 am:
All the world’s indeed a stage,
And we are merely players,
Performers and portrayers,
Each another’s audience
Outside the gilded cage.
- Wensicia - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 11:11 am:
“..they are boiling over with hatred for people who own guns.”
I think we can see where the hatred is coming from and it’s not the victims or their families.
- Lil Squeezy - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 11:36 am:
I was just on their website and found this gem:
One Rampage Too Many - Police Superintendent Garry McCarthy Has To Go
From the release:”The ISRA has been cautioning folks against making Chicago a leisure time destination for a few years now,” continued Pearson. “Unless you’re the kind of person who wants to be terrorized, beaten, raped or robbed, then you should definitely find another place to vacation.”
There has to be true believers who advocate for Chicago Tourism. Now lets not get out of hand here. The IRSA would never say that true believers want you to be raped. No, the IRSA wouldn’t say that. But they would say true believers advocating for Chicago Tourism ‘couldn’t care less” if you were raped. See the difference.
- Skeptic - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 11:39 am:
“All the world’s indeed a stage. . .”
Rich: The other day you asked for suggestions on how to maintain the intellectual quality of this blog…I’ll bet “Quoting Shakespeare” wasn’t among the suggestions you anticipated. Best. Blog. Ever. Thanks 47th!
- Rod - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 11:45 am:
Rich I have not yet received the ISRA special alert titled “The True Believers” and I am a member. But I have to assume its real and it seems real crazy too. Just for the record I formally wrote to Rich Pearson about the commentary that Lil Squeezy just referenced.
I have to admit I am a little rattled by what has been coming out of the ISRA in the last couple of days. I am not a pacifist and I support 2nd amendment rights, but these blasts seem out of control.
- Bill F. - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 11:45 am:
Count me among the lawful, responsible gun owners who do not think the world is out to get me. This is absurdity with a terribly callous edge. But worse, it feeds a dangerous mania among those who take this as gospel, rather than with a grain of salt.
This isn’t advocating your position, it’s being hyperbolic and irresponsible.
- Amalia - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 12:00 pm:
@HenryVK, despite Todd’s reasonable demeanor, his positions are the same as those of the ISRA, which means the other side can use the ISRA comments against the positions. and it makes discussion of the entire topic unpleasant and unproductive. what the ISRA also does is incite and inspire more heavy purchases of guns. it’s really not just about supporting rights. it’s about supporting an industry.
- 47th Ward - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 12:01 pm:
===it’s really not just about supporting rights. it’s about supporting an industry.===
Ding ding ding! We have a winner. Well said Amalia.
- Property Owner - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 12:05 pm:
“Whereas the vast majority of victims of violence do their best to recover and get on with their lives, there is a minority who allow their grief to turn into seething bitterness.”
The position of the ISRA reminds me of two cases in Illinois’ past. Back in the 1980’s it was the fight over required auto insurance for all drivers. More recently it was the fight over tort reform in cases of medical malpractice. In both cases some people would not just get over what they went thru, such as the cost of an auto accident for which they received no restitution, and “get on with their lives.”
I can understand that some of those who are victims of gun violence might become bitter after the loss of a friend or relative or the pain and suffering of their own injury both in physical terms and financial terms. The ISRA, however, appears not to understand this.
- Joe Bidenopolous - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 12:11 pm:
Morocco - +1
47th Said - “The purpose of e-mails like this is simple…It is predicated on fear and the myth…”
Couldn’t possibly agree more. The hyperbolic missives are a cynical design started by Wayne LaPierre way back when to bolster fundraising and grass roots activity. There is a sucker born every minute, and PT Barnum would’ve happily welcomed all of the people who fall for the ISRA’s lines.
Amalia is spot on as well that the rhetoric is designed to prop up an industry.
For my part, I own many firearms, support the 2nd Amendment and am not worried one whit about any of the proposals out there. ISRA leadership is cynically intelligent in callously appealing to people’s inner crazy, but those people’s crazy is exactly what scares the heck out of me. They’re nuts - N-V-T-S nuts!
- HenryVK - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 12:22 pm:
Amelia,
I think reasonable people can disagree on the actual policy positions taken by the NRA and the ISRA.
Where there is no room for reasonable disagreement is on the topic that the ISRA is behaving in an obnoxious behavior and is harming the policy-based arguments of the NRA and Todd.
As I noted above, it is time for Todd to step up and denounce the ISRA. Otherwise, their behavior is going to tarnish his efforts.
- Cincinnatus - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 12:29 pm:
The final arbiters of any legislative advocacy are its members and ultimately the voters, and perhaps not, just possibly, for your consideration, just as a thought, not bloggers, and certainly from those on the opposite side of the issue.
The ISRA, as any other group, rises and falls on the tides of its members and voters, but it is certainly fun to watch the many ISRA threads Rich posts.
- Amalia - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 12:39 pm:
@47th ward, thanks. I don’t want to shut down the manufacture of guns, but the personal firearms industrial complex needs to be taken down a few notches.
- Lil Squeezy - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 12:43 pm:
We regulate the sale of certain cough medicines in this state. There are restrictions on the amount. There are no background checks, but there is a record of the transaction. Most people use these products lawfully. It’s frustrating, but meth addiction is a terrible thing. These restrictions do not stop meth production, but they make it harder to manufacture and hopefully the restrictions along with pr campaigns are helping. I am under no false hope that meth addiction will cease to exist. But I am happy to help, even if you see me frustrated as I wait in line.
- Amalia - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 12:49 pm:
@HenryVK, I do agree with you, although I have been chastised on this site in the past few days for expressing the sentiment that it’s time for Todd to chastise the ISRA for these awful statements.
- 47th Ward - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 12:59 pm:
===I don’t want to shut down the manufacture of guns,===
Nor do I Amalia, but exposing the relationship between some pro-gun advocacy groups and the multi-billion dollar firearms industry would be welcome in this debate.
- Amalia - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 1:16 pm:
@47th ward, let’s roll!
- Cincinnatus - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 1:32 pm:
“It’s also worth pointing out that all of those corporate donations — excluding the magazine advertising — have been a mere drop in the bucket compared to the NRA’s entire budget.”
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/12/whom-does-the-nra-really-speak-for/266373/
- wordslinger - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 1:45 pm:
Good link, Cincy. How about an excerpt:
– In his tell-all memoir, Ricochet: Confessions of a Gun Lobbyist, former NRA operative and consultant Richard Feldman argued that the group had degenerated into “a cynical, mercenary political cult,” that was “obsessed with wielding power while relentlessly squeezing contributions from its members.” Manipulating the fears of impassioned gun owners helped keep their wallets open, and helped to fund the rich pay packages for executives like LaPierre, who pocketed nearly $1 million in 2010.
In an interview, Feldman, who now runs the Independent Firearms Owners Association, said that over the last 20 years, the NRA had indeed “taken on the mantle for protecting the gun industry,” such as when it successfully lobbied for a 2005 law that protected firearms manufacturers from civil suits by gun makers or their families. But he said the group’s staunchly anti-gun control stances also reflected the sincere priorities of its most impassioned members, including both big and small donors.
“The people who are most concerned about gun rights are the most doctrinaire and ideological in their approach to the issue,” Feldman said. “As an organization you can have four million members, but that doesn’t mean all members are equal. The members you have to worry about are the ones who contribute.”–
The NRAs and ISRAs keep the gun industry happy by spreading a dystopian world view that everyone is out to get you. 300 million privately owned firearms, but the gubmint is coming to get them. So keep buying.
It would be easier for the government to confiscate every privately owned car. There are fewer of them, they’re big and easy to spot and you can just hook them up.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/12/whom-does-the-nra-really-speak-for/266373/
- Grandson of Man - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 1:50 pm:
If medical marijuana passes, patients will have to be fingerprinted and get background checks, and they’ll have to verify their doctor-patient relationships. But to some who think that expanding background checks for firearms is sacrilegious, very ill people going through strict regulations to get their medical marijuana is still not enough to protect society and should not be allowed. I find that highly ironic.
- Mason born - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 1:53 pm:
Henry
I don’t think Todd denouncing the ISRA will have any affect on the ISRA. Only the members of the organization or potentially the parent organization taking official action (NRA) has any potential at changing them. I have contacted the Membership individuals and informed them i will be a former member if this kind of idiocy is not resolved.
- Tommydanger - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 1:56 pm:
–They cannot be reasoned with. They cannot be educated.–
Said the pot calling the kettle black.
- Original Rambler - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 1:56 pm:
47th ward 10:44 is spot on. I’m on the gun control side of the debate who has come around to accepting concealed carry. These ISRA missives make me want to write a check to a sensible gun control group to balance out the fanaticism of the ISRA and NRA. (If only I knew one.) Are we stuck with zealots on both sides of this issue?
- countyline - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 1:56 pm:
“personal firearms industrial complex” - that’s funny. And just what do you feel are reasonable restrictions ?
- HenryVK - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 2:00 pm:
Mason Born,
I agree that being denounced by Todd will not change the behavior of the ISRA. The ISRA people have gone off the deep end.
However, Todd needs to do it to advance the NRA’s cause. Right now he’s making rational arguments but the ISRA’s ranting is hurting his position.
Saying “I don’t approve of those people” allows Todd to make some progress among moderates.
- NW Illinois - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 2:06 pm:
The ISRA staff should all be fired.
- Chris - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 2:10 pm:
“Are we stuck with zealots on both sides of this issue? ”
Yep.
- Mason born - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 2:19 pm:
HenryVK
For the politics of it yes Todd denouncing this kind of crap helps him and all gun owners. I agree there.
However i want to remedy the idiocy that started this in the ISRA. The people that write this crap need to get their walking papers. On Rich’s question yesterday i said Paterson shouldn’t resign unless he is responsible for sending the crap or approving it’s release. At this point if he hasn’t realized how Stupid this crap makes the entire organization then he needs to hit bricks.
- Mason born - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 2:21 pm:
Original
I’m not sure if it’s that we are stuck with Zealots on both sides or whether the Zealots simply scream the loudest and attract the most media attention.
- and1 - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 2:25 pm:
They’re coming to take me away, a ha. They’re coming to take me away.
- Amalia - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 2:28 pm:
@countyline, limits on magazine sizes, may issue for carry regulations are two current topics I favor. and I certainly don’t find the personal firearms industrial complex amusing.
- AFSCME Steward - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 2:35 pm:
Realityr-US
Just guessing. You failed you’re background check. Correct >
“I could not disagree with Ray del Camino more. Gun owners are a persecuted minority.
The events in Conn. last year have given the haters an occasion to come out into the open.”
- Ghost - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 3:01 pm:
So creat an alleged fear based argument you atribute to your opponents, and counter it with a rabid, fear based emotional appeal to stem it?
I think we have a new logical sylogism… Argument absurdist ad hominem
- countyline - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 3:10 pm:
Magazine limits are an unreasonable restriction and won’t stop anything, and “may issue” is basically the same as “no issue”, and you know it. The only people that will get permits under may issue are the politically connected - are you OK with that, or just so naive that you believe may issue would be fairly administered state-wide ?
- Amalia - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 3:17 pm:
um, what?!?
- HenryVK - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 3:19 pm:
County,
We are trying to figure out how your post concerns making rude comments about victims of violent crime.
- wordslinger - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 3:30 pm:
The ISRA has been in business a long time.
It’s silly to think that they don’t know what they are saying, what they are doing, or that their views and world outlook do not reflect and resonate with their membership.
Keep that in mind when considering their public policy positions.
- Ghost - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 3:31 pm:
Word, I just like that people think our Government is that organized…
in deference to the gun lobby, some of the most peaceful places on earth are the ones where the population enjoys unrestricted access to and use of guns.
Take the middle east for example…
- countyline - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 3:39 pm:
Henry - that works both ways, but I’ll play.
I agree that some of the bulletins that come from ISRA are a little bit over the top, but the same can be said for the other side. There is plenty of hate for law-abiding gun owners coming from the Brady Campaign, VPC, and Hollywood just to name a few - very hypocritical of the latter given the money they make peddling violence. Whether its an election or a legislative issue, both sides go to extremes to rev up their base - I’m not condoning it, that’s just the way it is.
I find it somewhat offensive that people like Obama and other left-leaning politicians are using the Newtown families as props to get their way on gun control - though thankfully they have failed at the federal level and in Illinois so far. Adam Lanza in no way represents the average gun owner, and the Newtown tragedy in no way represents typical gun crime, so why hold them up as examples (other than to take an unfair emotional advantage to get what you’ve always wanted, in Obama’s case).
- HenryVK - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 3:42 pm:
County,
You seem like you are wound a bit tight.
You may not be the best example for gun owners.
By the way, can you point out where “people like Obama” ever insulted the victims of a tragedy. Because I can’t think of a single incident where did so.
- Rich Miller - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 3:42 pm:
===bulletins that come from ISRA are a little bit over the top===
You gotta be kidding me.
===but the same can be said for the other side===
OK, show me an Illinois gun control group that does this sort of thing. I get their stuff, too, and I haven’t seen it. Maybe I’m missing something.
- Deep South - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 3:51 pm:
” can you point out where “people like Obama” ever insulted the victims of a tragedy
Wanna bet County sez Begghazi?
- Ahoy! - Friday, May 10, 13 @ 4:11 pm:
The NRA and the ISRA are just becoming fringe groups that are out of touch with 90% of society (at least 90%).