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Rauner will form new PAC to “protect” legislators who stand with him

Friday, Dec 6, 2013 - Posted by Rich Miller

* Bruce Rauner was asked this week how he would deal with the General Assembly. His response…

“We’re gonna raise a PAC, we’re gonna raise a fund dedicated to the state Legislature, members of both parties who take the tough votes. We’ve gotta protect the members who take tough votes.

“Right now, Madigan controls the Legislature from his little pot of cash. It isn’t that much money. And he runs the whole state government out of that pot.

“We need a pro-business, pro-growth, pro-limited government, pro-tax reduction PAC down there in Springfield working with the Legislature for those who take tough votes.”

Rod Blagojevich tried to do a similar thing with a new PAC (Move Illinois Forward) and failed. But Blagojevich was raising money from his fellow Democrats, who didn’t want to step on Madigan’s toes. The Republican Rauner won’t be facing a reticent crowd, and he’s so rich that he can always put lots money in himself.

Thoughts?

Full interview here…

       

82 Comments
  1. - OneMan - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:00 am:

    Well if he wants to ‘beat’ Madigan one logical step is to act a bit more like Madigan and having a PAC (one that he even self funds) may not be a bad idea.


  2. - Michelle Flaherty - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:01 am:

    Hahahah. I’d forgotten about Blago’s MILF PAC.
    Good times.


  3. - Downstate dem - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:02 am:

    This could have an effect and will help in some competitive races. Madigan does not have overwhelming funds.


  4. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:08 am:

    One side - very commendable, love the “oh yeah, well I have your back” loyalty. You dance with the guy who brung ya, and I am all about that.

    One side - just because you defend those who agree with your utter hypocrisy, it is utter hypocrisy all the same. When claiming politicians are “owned” by special interests, and you are not a politician, and you use those tools you think are wrong, you get “called” on it.

    One side - If I were Brady, Dillard, and Rutherford, I would say, “Is this like when Bruce Rauner advocates for Pension Business, or giving monies to Rich Daley or Rahm Emanuel?”

    Last side - Once you are “bought”, you stay “bought”, just watch the Bruce Rauner ads if you don’t know that.

    I know I’m not the only one.., with mixed emotions.


  5. - yo - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:09 am:

    the “MILF PAC.” that is awesome. Lol.

    ahhh, I see now, the best way to change government is simply with more money! what percent of gdp are we spending on politics now anyway? more money flooding the system is going to make things better… I am just sure of it. /snark.


  6. - jimk849 - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:09 am:

    More of the same. Rauner is saying “he who has the most money has the most power


  7. - Chicago Cynic - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:10 am:

    Buying off ILGA members, or at least putting them on long-term lease, is not novel, though I’ve never seen it done by a would be governor. Frankly, the implications are kind of chilling, even here. And as Rich pointed out, Rod failed because he couldn’t raise real dough to do it. Rauner has no such restriction.


  8. - walkinfool - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:10 am:

    Well, if you’re committed to buying government you might as well be open about it.


  9. - Downstater - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:12 am:

    Smart move by Rauner. Some additional money in some races could help Republicans win some races. Put hundreds of thousands of dollars in some of these races is a big deal and smart strategy.


  10. - SAP - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:13 am:

    Dillard voted Rauner’s way on pension bill. Does he get cash?


  11. - wordslinger - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:15 am:

    Very candid.

    –“We’re gonna raise a PAC, we’re gonna raise a fund dedicated to the state Legislature, members of both parties who take the tough votes. We’ve gotta protect the members who take tough votes.–

    By tough votes, I’m assuming he means “votes my way.”

    How is this not explicitly quid pro quo? Vote my way, and you’ll get cash?


  12. - The Captain - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:15 am:

    Rod was advised in 02/03 to put money together and spend it on creating allies in the House and Senate, he still had about $3m leftover after the 02 campaign and he didn’t take anyone’s advice. He was a prolific fundraiser (much of which he raised legally) but he was also really, really selfish. By the time he finally relented and created MILF he had already alienated some of his potential allies and he still didn’t spread all that much money around. The whole thing was maybe $200k total and this is a guy who raised around $50m for his two gubernatorial campaigns.

    Rauner’s idea around a strategy isn’t necessarily a bad one but he’d have to commit to it better than Blagojevich’s half hearted effort.


  13. - 47th Ward - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:19 am:

    Money is certainly a big factor in getting people elected or re-elected to the General Assembly, but it isn’t the only thing. For all of Rauner’s money, he has yet to show that he knows how to spend it effectively. Say what you will about the House Democratic Majority operation, but those cats know how to win elections.

    Rauner can tap Bill Griffin for plenty of dough, but he won’t be able to compete with the intangibles that Madigan’s operation brings to the table.


  14. - too obvious - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:19 am:

    The latest desperate Hail Mary from Buyout Bruce.


  15. - Linus - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:19 am:

    Oddly enough, in recent days, I haven’t been able to shake the nagging observation that Rauner and Blago increasingly seem to have an awful lot in common with each other. Subtract the obvious differences in personal wealth, (nominal?) party affiliation, etc, and you still find some very similar characteristics in terms of overall, my-way-or-the-highway approach to politics and maybe more.

    And yes, to echo others above: the “MILF PAC” reminder provides the Laugh Of The Day. Thanks for the memories!


  16. - OneMan - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:21 am:

    How is this not explicitly quid pro quo? Vote my way, and you’ll get cash?

    How is that really different than most PACs?


  17. - Obamas Puppy - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:25 am:

    If this guys intentions were in doubt the amount of money he is willing to spend on this venture should give anyone pause.


  18. - Norseman - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:27 am:

    It’s good to be a one-percenter!


  19. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:27 am:

    ===How is that really different than most PACs?===

    Not that many PACs are literally purchasing their own 2 Caucuses, and then tells everyone? “I’m buying my own 2 Caucuses!”

    Once you commit millions to hypocrisy, it is difficult to find the point a hypocrite decides his/her hypocrisy is not worth faking the integrity (code for CASH).


  20. - Johnny Q. Suburban - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:28 am:

    How do you know this is the internet: Simple. Bruce Rauner was just called a psychopath for forming a PAC.


  21. - McLean Farmboy - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:29 am:

    I had a conversation just the other day about how similar Rauner and Blagojevich are.
    Rod was the quintessential example of what happens when the son-in-law inherits the family business. As an up and comer, Rod was never called to task for the small mistakes he made. Getting corrected when you make small mistakes is where we learn how to not make big ones as we advance to larger responsibilities. Unfortunately, he never learned lessons from small mistakes and we saw what happened when the father-in-law could not, or would not, bail him out.
    Bruce has much the same problem. What this last week has demonstrated quite dramatically is that not all executive experience is equivalent. He does not have executive experience in the sense of running a business and answering to shareholders, customers, and the like. His seems to be a dictatorial role running a venture capital firm in a very real “my way or the highway” sort of philosophy. He never had to learn how to manage people effectively, or even compromise. The latest PAC is just more from him trying to buy his way into power, or more snarkily, his way seems to be to throw money around and buy whatever friends and allies he needs to get his way.
    In the case of both of these guys, petulance is not a trait that works well in governing. It is the art of compromise that is the foundation of governance in a democracy.


  22. - wordslinger - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:31 am:

    –Smart move by Rauner. Some additional money in some races could help Republicans win some races.–

    I thought that’s what Reform PAC was supposed to do. He and his wife both kicked in $10,500 for that. Plus, he’s kicked in a lot in the past to the leader’s House GOP committee.

    According to Rauner’s own words, as governor, he’d be bankrolling a new PAC that would “protect” (reward) those who take “tough votes” (vote his way), both Democrats and Republicans.


  23. - econ prof - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:33 am:

    Smart move by Rauner. A few downstate Dems can’t be happy with this.


  24. - OneMan - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:34 am:

    Really,
    You don’t think Madigan uses funds at his disposal (in both primaries and general elections) to help those who are going to vote in general the way he wants (or even tells) them to vote?

    I mean I get a lot of you don’t like Bruce, but fundamentally what is the difference besides it is being started by a guy? Do you really think people who give big money to either of the parties do it out of the goodness of their heart?

    To borrow a line from the Godfather “Who is being naive here Kay?”


  25. - PoolGuy - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:36 am:

    the outsider playing the insider again. oh I’ll just dump millions of dollars into a PAC to fund and re-elect people that will pass my bills and do what I say.

    and how is this different from what he perceives Madigan do be doing all along? more of the say is a good thing???


  26. - PoolGuy - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:37 am:

    “to be doing all along” and “more of the same”
    ugh…


  27. - wordslinger - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:40 am:

    –You don’t think Madigan uses funds at his disposal (in both primaries and general elections) to help those who are going to vote in general the way he wants (or even tells) them to vote?–

    He’s not talking in a general way. He’s talking about specific “tough votes” and the rewards that will come for voting his way.

    He’s being explicit, not general. It’s candid, but I’m not certain it’s wise.


  28. - walkinfool - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:41 am:

    Wonder if he’s gonna file this PAC as a “primarily” charitable organization, to avoid taxes and to keep ultimate donors confidential.

    No, that would be tax fraud. And Yes, it is what a lot of super-PACs have done in the last five years.

    Unfortunately, now the IRS is now afraid to look at any of these cases.


  29. - PoolGuy - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:42 am:

    also “We need a pro-business, pro-growth, pro-limited government, pro-tax reduction PAC down there in Springfield”?

    i thought this “PAC” already existed, i.e. the Illinois Republican Party…


  30. - Demoralized - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:42 am:

    ==Bruce Rauner was just called a psychopath for forming a PAC. =

    I don’t think that’s the case at all. I think it’s a legitimate observation to note the similarities in the actions and rhetoric of Rauner compared to Blagojevich. While I doubt Rauner is psychologically at all like Blagojevich, it’s a bit scary to think the same bad movie could get a re-play in terms of how Rauner might impact state government. Blagojevich made a mess of it. Rauner seems to be on that same path.


  31. - foster brooks - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:43 am:

    Rauners in tune with Illinois, he can “buy” his way. Lol


  32. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:44 am:

    - OneMan -,

    So you advocate utter hypocrisy that walks and talks like a duck, but claims not to be a duck? Ok, now I know, thanks.

    The major differences is that MJM and all the others who do what Rauner is trying, never claim they are outsiders to this, and never did Michael Corleone claim Vito was an outsider.

    “This *cough* is the life *cough* we chose”

    If you ignore that fundamental part - OneMan- than the ethics will be lost one you.


  33. - Out Here In The Middle - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:47 am:

    In the Soviet Union, capitalism triumphed over communism. In this country, capitalism triumphed over democracy.

    Fran Lebowitz


  34. - too obvious - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:52 am:

    So a “tough vote” in Buyout Bruce’s mind is voting AGAINST pension reform? Ridiculous.

    Rauner’s campaign looks clumsier than the Lee Harvey Oswald prison transfer.


  35. - hisgirlfriday - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:52 am:

    There’s something interesting to me about how many of the same people who don’t think the government having more money can solve societal problems think that the answer to every political problem is to throw more money at it.

    Also noticed Rauner reported another Crown family infusion


  36. - OneMan - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 11:55 am:

    So the difference between being an “outsider” vs and “insider” makes the ethics fundamentally different?

    I don’t see how that changes the ethics man. But lets break that down…

    Does anyone think that the influence of the financial resources of the Democratic party fund controlled by various entities do not influence how people vote on things?

    If you don’t, then are you saying that a party using it’s resources to influence how members of the party vote on legislation (by making those resources available or unavailable) is ethically different than an entity that says basically…

    “Hey if you vote to really modify the state pension system in a way that is going to piss a lot of folks off, but that we agree with we will have your back” is wrong?

    I get it, some of you wouldn’t toss Bruce a life-ring if he was drowning but come on, it’s unethical vs ethical based on a label (insider, outsider, Republican, Democrat, whatever) is silly on it’s face.

    Or to put it another way, if (Insert entity against pension reform that cuts benefits here) said to someone “You know, we know a NO vote on this pension deal is going to hurt the money you are going to get from the XYZ entity, don’t worry we have your back” is that unethical?


  37. - GA Watcher - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 12:03 pm:

    I think it might be more effective for Mr. Rauner to organize a group of his financially successful friends to pay down the State’s structural deficit. It may be more effective than his PAC concept.


  38. - Mighty M. Mouse - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 12:06 pm:

    ===I think it’s a legitimate observation to note the similarities in the actions and rhetoric of Rauner compared to Blagojevich.===

    Thanks, Demoralized.

    My point exactly.


  39. - anon - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 12:13 pm:

    Rauner=Blago. Let’s make that a campaign issue


  40. - Norseman - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 12:14 pm:

    === I think it might be more effective for Mr. Rauner to organize a group of his financially successful friends to pay down the State’s structural deficit. It may be more effective than his PAC concept. ===

    Legalized bribes are cheaper!


  41. - Snucka - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 12:16 pm:

    Today, Rauner became the largest contributor to the Term Limits PAC with a $250,000 check.

    Since February 28 (when Rauner started his campaign fund), the Rauners have made over $1.6 million in contributions to various committees. Ken Griffin has donated about $400,000 in that time. Rauner’s campaign reported $594,000 on hand as of 9/30 and has raised $2.7 million since then.

    For some perspective, Madigan’s three main campaign funds reported $3 million on hand as of 9/30 and raised a total of $1.6 million since then.


  42. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 12:20 pm:

    Morale of the Story?

    Egos are expensive, Egos with a lack of ethics, real expensive, and buying integrity, is off the charts expensive.


  43. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 12:23 pm:

    - 47th Ward -

    Spot on. Can not put a real price on “know how” and talent in your task.

    - OneMan -,

    What’s next, you going to say Hyman Roth was just a retired businessman living on a modest pension too? lol


  44. - circularfiringsquad - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 12:32 pm:

    For the record Blagoof is a sociopath
    FarmerBrucey’s new pay to play gambit should be interesting. Wonder if he will disclose the funders or just go the dark money route like IPI and BGA?
    Will the term limit scam exempt the lawmakers he is able to “buy”? Where is GManJim when we need him?


  45. - Mighty M. Mouse - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 12:50 pm:

    ===For the record Blagoof is a sociopath===

    Dr. Robert Hare is probably the world’s leading authority on psycopathy. Following is what he said about the difference between psychopathy and sociopathy — that they’re really the same thing:

    “Hare noted in a 1999 popular science book that sociopathy and psychopathy are often used interchangeably, but in some cases the term sociopathy is preferred because it is less likely than is psychopathy to be confused with psychosis, whereas in other cases which term is used may “reflect the user’s views on the origins and determinates of the disorder”. Hare contended that the term sociopathy is preferred by those that see the causes as due to social factors and early environment, and the term psychopathy preferred by those who believe that there are psychological, biological, and genetic factors involved in addition to environmental factors.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy


  46. - rcg - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 12:54 pm:

    First, buy the governors race…then buy the house and senate…isn’t money a wonderful thing


  47. - Hyperbolic Chamber - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 1:03 pm:

    The idiocy of Rauner’s statement is that:
    a) he apparently thinks he’ll be able to buy Dem votes; b) he thinks he’ll HAVE to buy Repub votes; and c) he just confirmed every assumption Joe Sixpack will have about him: He’s an ultra-rich guy who has will not only try to buy the governorship and buy a change to the Constitution, but he’ll try buy the legislature, too. Then all he’ll need is to do is buy 4 Supreme Court seats and he’ll corner the market on Illinois government.


  48. - Hyperbolic Chamber - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 1:04 pm:

    Sorry, reg. You beat me to the punch.


  49. - MrJM - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 1:06 pm:

    I’ll admit that The Gilded Age of Baron Carhartt has been entertaining so far, but I’m starting to doubt that has a happy ending.

    – MrJM


  50. - Joe Chavez Ptak - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 1:21 pm:

    The Democrats and liberals/progressives/socialists who post here are seeing what a REAL LEADER is willing to do to end the corruption and oppression the Madigan junta forces on the Illinois TAXPAYERS.

    Way to go MR. BRUCE RAUNER…you know the source of the real problems, and most of all you know how to fight back for us.

    You will be our next governor and the sooner the better!


  51. - Anonymous - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 1:28 pm:

    It won’t matter long anyways, because if Rauner cuts the cost of government the way he’s talking, the only ones who will be able to afford to run for office will be the rich.


  52. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 1:31 pm:

    ===The Democrats and liberals/progressives/socialists who post here are seeing what a REAL LEADER is willing to do to end the corruption and oppression the Madigan junta forces on the Illinois TAXPAYERS.===

    You mean by being THE utter hypocrite of the Cycle, running against exactly what this advocates for!

    “Bruce Rauner - Ethics and Integrity… Optional!” lol

    - Joe Chavez Ptak -, you crack me up!


  53. - Walter Mitty - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 1:32 pm:

    In this country, you gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the government.
    -Tony Montana

    Yes, I know it’s women…But it was my first thought…. Credit the fact instead of going small, slight ad change, if some donations goto Dems for tough votes that define courage to the masses and NOT just his view… Game change. If he is smart enough to do that. I know he is bashed on here for great reasons, but didn’t this just cause a ripple to MJM?


  54. - olddog - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 1:34 pm:

    @ Joe Chavez Ptak 1:21

    Been trolling much lately?


  55. - Joe Chavez Ptak - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 1:40 pm:

    Oswego Willy when you have the stones to identify who you really are…you are a meaningless person. This applies to the rest of the cowards here who hide behind childish/girlish names. I laugh at you…you have no clue what it means to be an American


  56. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 1:43 pm:

    ===…MR. BRUCE RAUNER…you know the source of the real problems…===

    I am sure all 9 houses have mirrors, so this makes total sense!


  57. - Ahoy! - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 1:46 pm:

    1. he would still have to deal with the map
    2. I’m not sure Rauner’s positions are going to be all that popular no matter how much money he throws around.
    3. Is Rauner just a rich Blagojevich?


  58. - Joe Chavez Ptak - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 1:54 pm:

    This website is a bit disappointing Mr. Rich Miller, I was hoping to find a much more balanced and informative source of politics in Illinois.

    I’m new here but, I normally don’t participate much with sites that allow “anonymous” comments. This is why the “Illinois Review” is equally unimpressive to me. They do however have been improving in this regard.

    If Americans are not willing to stand up and step forward as individuals, demanding the best from our “representatives”, by letting them know who they are…they will never respect us, let alone fear us. Have a good day…and thank you for your efforts to inform the public.


  59. - Anonymous - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 2:02 pm:

    The most interesting part of Rauner’s campaign has been that he has openly drawn a line in the sand against the Speaker - and the Speaker seems to have taken notice.

    People say Rauner is just another Rich guy who doesn’t get government/politics. Whether he is or not, I’m sure he is going to learn a lot real soon.


  60. - MrJM - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 2:03 pm:

    I laugh at you…you have no clue what it means to be an American

    And your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.

    – MrJM


  61. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 2:04 pm:

    - Joe Chavez Ptak -,

    I guess secret ballot is un-American too? You must identify yourself to vote for or against Payton Prep Clouter.

    I hope - Joe Chavez Ptak - didn’t leave because he ran out of Dopey talking points.


  62. - Anonymous - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 2:09 pm:

    === I’m new here but, I normally don’t participate much with sites that allow “anonymous” comments. This is why the “Illinois Review” is equally unimpressive to me. They do however have been improving in this regard. ===

    Maybe some people do not want to have their identities known because people can abuse that information. I don’t know if I’d want this kind of information about myself floating out there:

    http://barringtonvotes.com/profile/JoeChavezPtak


  63. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 2:12 pm:

    First of all Rich makes the rules, we try to follow them, k? Second of all, if I’m going to reveal myself, it’s not gonna be because of a guy like that!

    Posting here moves pretty fast. If you don’t stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.


  64. - Joe Chavez Ptak - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 2:23 pm:

    BTW, Mr. Miller, I do appreciate the fact that comments do not have to be approved before they are posted here…unlike the Illinois Review. That is something that I also find deplorable. Hope you attract more courageous and real American men and women to participate in your site. I have copied some of your articles to my Facebook page where I do most of my communicating with people all across the nation. Again…have a good day/weekend. God bless.


  65. - Robert the Bruce - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 2:59 pm:

    Joe Chavez Ptak, I always appreciate it when people use their real names. But for many, it isn’t about courage; sometimes some of us have jobs that preclude us from using real names.


  66. - Anonymous - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 3:03 pm:

    =It’s candid, but I’m not certain it’s wise. =

    Shades of Ross Perot and why so many who agreed with him wouldn’t vote for him. They were afraid his mouth would start the next world war.


  67. - Curious - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 3:04 pm:

    So… Mr. Rauner will be backing those who voted with the unions’ position on the pension bill? Figure that one out.


  68. - Anonymous - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 3:05 pm:

    And, BTW, Mr. Joe Chavez Ptak: If you’re Anonymous 2:09, trying to get yourself some PR, please do it under your own handle. You often make the general Anon community look bad.


  69. - Anonymous - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 3:08 pm:

    =They do however have been improving in this regard.=

    Really, “Mr. America?” And how’s that?


  70. - low level - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 3:08 pm:

    Where are all the campaign finance reformers? Canary? Shaw?
    (Bueller??)


  71. - Small Town Liberal - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 3:10 pm:

    - who hide behind childish/girlish names. -

    Because real Americans aren’t girls, eh Joe?


  72. - PoolGuy - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 3:15 pm:

    Hey Joe, you want it to be more “balanced” and “informative” here?

    so because Dems and liberals are actually allowed to post on this site, and hold opinions opposite your own, that means it’s biased and unbalanced?


  73. - walkinfool - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 3:18 pm:

    Joe P: Good that you paid a visit. Please note Rich’s rules below in red. They make for a good site.

    Since you are new here, I would point out that interested commenters of all political stripes and parties regularly appear here, and we try to be respectful of each other. That includes never claiming that someone is not a “true American” because of their stated views.

    The patriotism of all here, forms the basis of our interest in political commentary in the first place. Many of us here have fought for this country, and served her in various ways.

    Calling fellow American citizens “un-American”, isn’t helpful to a free exchange.

    We also avoid rhetorical “yelling” in all caps, seeing it as equally disrespectful.


  74. - LisleMike - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 3:22 pm:

    Am I missing something? Isn’t cousin Brucie for terms limits? If you have a limited term, isn’t THAT the vehicle that allows you to vote your conscience without reprisal from your electorate?
    Seems a bit two faced to me…You can only have “X” number of years, but stick with me and I’ll set you free!!!!(for a price)


  75. - Ruby - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 3:43 pm:

    According to Merriam Webster
    The Full Definition of BRIBE:
    1. money or favor given or promised in order to influence the judgment or conduct of a person in a position of trust
    2. something that serves to induce or influence

    And from Wikipedia:

    Bribery is an act of giving money or gift giving that alters the behavior of the recipient. Bribery constitutes a crime and is defined by Black’s Law Dictionary as the offering, giving, receiving, or soliciting of any item of value to influence the actions of an official or other person in charge of a public or legal duty.


  76. - Anonymous - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 3:43 pm:

    =If you have a limited term, isn’t THAT the vehicle that allows you to vote your conscience without reprisal from your electorate?=

    While I believe I understand the issue that he’s trying to resolve, it seems to be an extremely odd way of doing it. It doesn’t seem to be much of a solution, but rather an escalation.

    And one that could be perceived as extremely disenfranchsing, making one wonder whether that’s the intent as he’s being touted as such a brilliant businessman. If his disenfrachising the voters is not his intent, he probably needs some coaching in communications because he’s definitely sending the wrong messages.


  77. - low level - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 4:33 pm:

    “he probably needs some coaching in communications because he’s definitely sending the wrong messages.”
    Right on.
    The only thing I’d add perhaps is coaching in rational thinking. Or history.


  78. - Joe Chavez Ptak - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 5:09 pm:

    Since Mr. Miller does not believe in the 2nd Amendment…and chooses to delete some of my comments, I will no longer participate here.


  79. - Joe Chavez Ptak - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 5:09 pm:

    Meant 1st Amendment.


  80. - olddog - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 5:23 pm:

    I think Anonymous 2:09 had the wrong link about Joe “Chavez” Ptak. Maybe s/he meant to …

    http://norauner.com/2013/10/06/screw-the-republican-party-says-rahmner-supporter/


  81. - Richard Tanner - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 5:46 pm:

    Joe P: As a former combat Tanker of the Viet Nam war whose Father was a B-17 bomber crewman in WWII I wonder what makes you the judge of what a true American is. I`m guessing by the way you talk that old five deferment Dick Cheney would rank real high on your list. Unlike walkinfool I`m not a real nice guy so you and I won`t see eye to eye. In the sprit of the season however I will wish you a Merry Christmas anyway. Just don`t bank too much on your buddy Brucie getting elected. p.s. I have never met Oswego Willy but he is a fine contributor to this blog. You on the other hand along with Bruce remind me of what Rudyard Kipling called the lunatic fringe.


  82. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Dec 6, 13 @ 6:17 pm:

    - Richard Tanner -,

    First and foremost, thank you for your service, and your family’s service as well. I know I can’t thank veterans enough for the selfless service for our country and my family.

    Also, thank you for the very kind words. Rich has built a great community here, I am just glad I get to hang out here, so thanks.

    We can disagree here without being disagreeable, and everyone gets called “out”, it just seems as though se forget that whenever someone they support gets called on some Dopiness.

    Have a good weekend - Richard Tanner -, thanks for having my 6.

    OW.


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