* As subscribers were told this morning, the four tops met with the governor this afternoon. The Tribune has some MJM quotes…
“We had a very pleasant discussion,” said House Speaker Michael Madigan, D-Chicago. “The governor simply said that he’s got some tough medicine to deliver tomorrow. He understands that some people will not be happy, but he’s committed to reforming the finances of the state. And he has a program and an agenda to accomplish that.” […]
Madigan said he doesn’t expect the governor to propose ways to raise new revenue but does anticipate at Rauner push for large spending reductions. Madigan indicated Rauner was in store for a tough fight on that front.
“I said 10 days ago, I don’t think you can cut your way out of the problem,” Madigan said. “I think you need some additional revenue, and that’ll be my position tomorrow.”
Speaker Madigan is scheduled to hold a press conference at 1:15 tomorrow afternoon, shortly after Rauner’s budget address.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 4:46 pm:
===Speaker Madigan is scheduled to hold a press conference at 1:15 tomorrow afternoon, shortly after Rauner’s budget address.===
Just as important for Rauner is what MJM is going to say about his Co-Equal role he shares with Cullerton, to what Rauner is going to say the General Assembly.
This is MJM talking to you, Governor. You both need not talk past each other.
The number for MJM is 13. Today. Up to how you, Governor Rauner, as to how many more MJM, and Cullerton too, will want to bring to help get agreed to budget business done.
Fascinating theatre going on.
- 47th Ward - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 4:51 pm:
===“I think you need some additional revenue, and that’ll be my position tomorrow.”===
And the next day. And the next day. And the next…
- How Ironic - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 4:51 pm:
@OW,
Hope Rauner avoided the whole “I’ve got 10 votes I need a yes on, or there’s going to be (Bleeping) problems” speech with Madigan.
- anon. - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 4:52 pm:
I don’t think you can cut your way out of the problem,” Madigan said.
Maybe not, but there’s no way out without cuts and abjuring new spending.
- Norseman - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 4:54 pm:
Normally, legislative staffs would get a briefing around this time to help them prepare their members for the speech. I remember the appropriations staffers working through the night to present analyses of the different parts of the budget request. I’m not sure whether this task will be especially harder for them this year or less difficult because their might not be a lot of state government left in the Gov’s proposal. (Presuming that Rauner’s people provide such a briefing. Given Nuding’s role, I assumed they would do the briefing.)
Like Willy said, with one minor modification:
Fascinat’n theatre going on.
- archimedes - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 4:55 pm:
Who wants to bet there will be a speech, but a delay of any release of a proposed budget specifying the actual amounts?
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 4:58 pm:
- How Ironic -,
For fun, MJM’s response?
“I don’t work for you, Governor. You may want to remember that.”
“Governor, my votes to help you or not, you’ll be fine”
“You’ll be back, Governor, they always come back.”
“You keep saying this word…’problem’…I don’t think it means what you think it means.”
It’s “Sonny versus Michael”.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 5:01 pm:
===Like Willy said, with one minor modification:
Fascinat’n theatre going on.===
My apologies.
You seem to have captured the moment far better than me.
- Roamin' Numeral - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 5:02 pm:
We need additional revenue.
- Wordslinger - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 5:05 pm:
Is Rauner doing a media budget briefing tonight, embargoed until tomorrow? Budget books floating around yet?
- Wensicia - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 5:12 pm:
My concern, will Rauner continue to fund the state’s contribution to the pensions that Quinn dutifully paid while he was in office?
- AC - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 5:14 pm:
Just because he promised specifics doesn’t mean the “Pound of Cure” budget will actually deliver them. I’d point to recent examples for why I think he won’t actually deliver what he’s required to. He is the CEO, not the head of one of the coequal branches of government, so requirements apply to other people. I hope for the sake of Illinous that I’m wrong…
- Tim Snopes - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 5:16 pm:
Rauner proposes cuts.
Madigan proposes new revenues.
This is what Rauner wants. Dems remain the bad guys.
- The Dude Abides - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 5:28 pm:
The message the Democrats need to get out is that even the 5% tax rate was, for most people, a lower rate than most of our bordering states. Obviously the 3.75% rate won’t come close to being adequate, even with large budget cuts.
- RNUG - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 5:31 pm:
== will Rauner continue to fund the state’s contribution to the pensions that Quinn dutifully paid while he was in office? ==
My guess is not at the same level Quinn did; probably a lot lower level. We’ll hopefully find out tomorrow.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 5:38 pm:
===My guess is not at the same level Quinn did; probably a lot lower level.===
- RNUG -, I think your guess, is a really good guess. Can’t see same funding. Another shot across the bow to state employees.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 5:49 pm:
My bet is on the Millionaire’s Tax.
- RNUG - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 5:51 pm:
- Oswego Willy -
It’s more logic than guess. It’s the only large pot of money in the budget that can be diverted without offending any special interest groups except State employees / retirees …
- Andy S. - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 5:52 pm:
If Rauner does cut back on pension funding, the only silver lining I see is that he has to show his hand now, before the ISC delivers its ruling. Maybe that will nudge the justices to decide that the pensions are now impaired and order the state to adhere to the funding requests of the pension systems, much as the New York courts did in the 1990s in a similar situation.
- walker - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 5:55 pm:
Rauner might declare the ramp unworkable, and will cut pension funding to where it would be with no catch up.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 5:57 pm:
===It’s more logic than guess.===
Agree with that too.
Your logic on “offending” is where I was walking my thought around the barn. Rauner has been on state employees fit quite sometime, like since day one. Might as well stay with the group you’ve been attacking instead of adding more “enemies” if he can avoid it.
I’m picking up what you’re laying down, I’m just not as direct, and I don’t have your cache to say it.
- RNUG - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 6:02 pm:
== will nudge the justices ==
The funding method is not the point before the court. The issue is reduction of presumably protected benefits. It would be a huge reach for the IL SC to actually order specific funding based on the facts before it in the SB-1 appeal. But the court could write an opinion that invites an IFT type lawsuit which the court could then use to reverse their previous rulings on funding levels.
- Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 6:04 pm:
Greg Hinz has an article about a CTBA report, which states that the wealthiest will get the biggest break from the expiration of the income tax increase. The CTBA report says that tax relief that will benefit the wealthy doesn’t stimulate much economic growth (as we have seen in other states and have discussed ad nauseum).
Here is the CTBA article with the link to its report:
http://www.ctbaonline.org/reports/issue-brief-tax-relief-phase-down-personal-income-tax-disproportionately-goes-illinois%E2%80%99
The voters wanted a millionaire surcharge. Democrats have good grounds to push for it. As we saw here recently on Capitol Fax, and as the Civic Federation’s Laurence Msall reiterated yesterday, the millionaire surcharge is not part of the organization’s tax policy recommendation. It should be. No way in Hades should Democrats not include it in a budget package, and no way should we pass a solely regressive tax package that includes a bunch of sales taxes on services. When mentioning cuts to the poorest, it’s the moral thing to do, to require the wealthiest to pay more than others.
- Wordslinger - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 6:09 pm:
I can’t see how he could possibly short pension contributions.
Coupled with the rollback of the income tax and the likely upcoming ruling by fhe Supremes, I think that would precipitate an immediate downgrade — and one squarely on his shoulders.
I’d bet on a POB before shorting the contribution. Rating agencies love POBs.
- PublicServant - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 6:10 pm:
Quinn worked with the ramp Walker, so it’s not unworkable and it’s the law now.
Andy S, I’m with you on that outcome. I think it’s 50/50 since the state is arguing police powers.
The democrats won’t be the bad guys if they ride to the rescue of the little people in this state who Rauner is about to crush with his ideologically-based program cuts by responsibly raising revenues to cover needed state programs.
On a lighter note, I call drinking game on Rauner’s use of a form of the word fundamental tomorrow.
- Former Merit Comp Slave - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 6:11 pm:
Buying my popcorn in bulk now
- Bluecollargal - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 6:18 pm:
A budget is a statement of our values and priorities.
- Wensicia - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 6:19 pm:
I kinda feel the attacks on union workers are a lead on how he’ll view future funding of the pensions and, of course, I agree with RNUG’s educated opinion. OW, too!
- DuPage Dave - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 6:33 pm:
Tomorrow’s agency budget briefings are likely to lack specific numbers. At least my agency is still waiting on numbers.
- The Dude Abides - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 6:33 pm:
I heard Rauner say just last week on TV that he wants to fully fund the pension payments. I don’t remember now what group he was speaking to. Of course last October he said that “right to work” wouldn’t be a big item on his agenda so you never know.
- Jorge - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 6:45 pm:
Dupage, I hear the same about other agencies and I think you are correct on lacking specifics. There will most likely be a patchwork budget. Some tax hikes, cuts meaning less state workers, and as Slinger dutifully noted a bond offering.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 6:52 pm:
Snopes and Dude:
Democrats are not going to hold the Governor’s budget hostage.
For a refresher course on how Madigan filets his steaks, see
The “Gross Receipts tax.”
- Wordslinger - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 7:08 pm:
Seriously, no numbers?
Not much of a budget address then, is it?
If he wasn’t ready to go, he should have asked for an extension.
This is the real job, the one he wanted, and time’s a wasting. He’s known since the night of Nov. 4, more than three months ago, that this was the heavy lift.
Get on with it, already.
- PublicServant - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 7:11 pm:
RNUG, one thing I was hoping for from the court in their upcoming ruling on SB1, assuming you’re right and they don’t outright order the state to make the actuarially required pension payments, would be guidence to the state employees/retirees as to the filing of a lawsuit where the ISC would be in a position to order the payments. This guidence would be in juxtaposition to the hoped for guidence to the state as to exactly what they can get away with in terms of theft of contractual, constitutionally-protected benefits.
- Rod - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 7:26 pm:
If the Civic Federation believes there needs to be revenue in the mix and not just cuts, then Governor Rauner’s position is untenable. I would like to believe that Governor Rauner is just playing this out to see how big the cuts can be, before he agress to any type of tax increases.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 7:28 pm:
A friend of mine who works with my wife for the State thinks that Rauner will ask for a 22% salary cut across the board including no step increases. My wife doesn’t get any more step increases since she is a long time State worker.
I have been telling her that it is time to leave. I believe that she can do better in the private sector like myself. She comes home stressed every day. It is hard on our marriage. Don’t get me wrong, I love and support her but the bashing of State workers is very hard for her. The working conditions have gotten worse for her and everyone else there.
- Enviro - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 7:29 pm:
Madigan has the right idea concerning additional revenue needed to reform the finances of Illinois.
Illinois needs a progressive state income taxes as other states have to pay for state services.
Some examples:
Iowa the state income tax rates
on income over $30,300 — 6.80%
on income over $68,175 — 8.98%.
Missouri the state income tax rates
on income over $9001 — 6%.
Kentucky the state income tax rates
on income over $5000 — 5%
on income over $75,000 — 6%
In Wisconsin the state income tax rates
on income over $21,820 — 6.27%
on income over $240,190 — 7.65%.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 7:38 pm:
- Enviro -,
Sounds good.
Now, about that pesky Constitution…
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 7:40 pm:
I forgot to say that he will also raise the health care premiums but she gets that thru me, Thank God.
- Jeff Trigg - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 7:48 pm:
Willy, is it the Constitution that is pesky, or pesky voters who might reject this income tax amendment on the ballot? Its easy enough for the GA to put it on the ballot, so why haven’t they yet?
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 7:53 pm:
- Jeff Trigg -,
It’s pesky, ’cause we need answers, say, by May-ish…June.
I don’t think this income tax thingy will be up and running by then.
The politics of the “why”…isn’t superceding the “how”.
- Enviro - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 7:54 pm:
We may never have a progressive state income tax in Illinois ( as they do in so many other states) but we could have a 5% or 6% state income tax until the over due bills are paid, and a tax on services.
- PublicServant - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 8:10 pm:
Jeff, Rauner’s budget will make voters understand that revenues are needed to fund necessary programs. When they realize that a progressive tax will mean that most will be paying much less than they would under a flat tax while raising necessary revenues and leaving most with more money to spend in this demand-starved economy, I think they’ll vote for a progressive tax amendment in sufficient numbers to pass it.
- good cop bad cop - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 9:10 pm:
Reminds me the show property brothers when people get the sticker shock in reverse. Show them something crazy and the big cuts look like less compared to the gigantic cuts. Japanese management style. When a fork lift driver creates an error claim huge damages then when the damage is calculated it comes in at less. Superiors are happy it didn’t cost as much as it originally did.
- good cop bad cop - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 9:17 pm:
Really anything to avoid a tax on those who gained the most. How horrible it must have been to become a billionaire living in Winnetka. I wonder how many 20 dollar watches and Carhartt jackets it will take to kick start the IL economy while the free ride continues.
- Soccertease - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 9:21 pm:
RNUG,Word, et.al.: Isn’t anything less than the actuarially required contribution technically underfunding the pension? It’s been discussed by many that ideally we want to be 100% funded but something less (70-80%) is OK. So why wouldn’t Rauner fund the pension systems at a lesser amount? I also don’t think it’s a blow to state employees if he does this - at least he’s funding at an acceptable level.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 9:25 pm:
Maybe Madigan and Cullerton could layout specifically how we got into this mess (since they were both here for a long time). Then the Governor could simply take a 180 degree course of what they have done in the past and fix this mess!
Of course, that would be to simple. Funny how those that created this debacle can never seem to be held accountable or offer a solution on how to get the State out of what they have created.
- Kasparov - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 9:27 pm:
The Illinois constitution prohibits a progressive direct tax but it doesn’t prevent a “progressive” tax credit.
With the proper actuarial diligence (outside my paygrade) taxpayers could get a credit towards Illinois tax liabilities equal to a percentage of the payroll tax they pay.
In 2012, for example, that was 6.2% of wages up to an annual wage maximum of $110,100 for social security. After $110,100 you stop paying such payroll taxes–AND–rich folks paid in capital gains, “carried interest” and stock options pay little to no payroll taxes at all.
Vee-ola!
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 9:52 pm:
- Kasparov - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 9:27 pm:
Won’t Work
- kizzo - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 10:14 pm:
==Kasparov== Interesting concept, but wouldn’t a tax credit system like that only make the system “progressive” by lowering the taxes on the people making less enough to be eligible for the credit? Less revenue overall.
I think House and Senate Dems are looking to increase revenue with the tax by increasing the rates on higher income folks and as much of the middle income folks they can get away with.
- Mama - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 10:16 pm:
- archimedes - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 4:55 pm:
==Who wants to bet there will be a speech, but a delay of any release of a proposed budget specifying the actual amounts? ==
I bet you are correct since Rauner does not like the public to know what he plans to do. He like surprise attacks.
- Mama - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 10:24 pm:
The above should read “likes surprise attacks” not like. Sorry
- Kasparov - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 10:32 pm:
==kizzo @10:14pm==
Just as a back of the napkin example–
If the tax rates were raised to 9% and everyone gets a tax credit of 6% for the first $100k they earned:
Louis Winthorpe III earning $200k would pay 3% on the first 100k plus 9% of $100k;
Billy Ray Valentine earning $50,000 would pay 3%; and,
Randolph Duke earning $1M would pay 3% on the first 100k and 9% on the remaining $900k.
- Harry - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 11:45 pm:
Re pension funding. The situation is different than in the mid-70s when the court refused to find a funding obligation in the Constitution, because now there is a statutory requirement. Question may be who, if anyone, has standing to sue to enforce that law.
- Jorge - Tuesday, Feb 17, 15 @ 11:52 pm:
I’m just hoping in the name of science everyone who analyzes this speech calls Dingo.
- Scott Walker - Wednesday, Feb 18, 15 @ 10:45 am:
Hello everybody, today is the day. I see panic is taking over the comments. Well I am here to tell you that it always hurts at first. Then once you recover it will hurt again. But hey, the cuts your are about to hear in a few hours will be awesome. I am preparing for my new workforce from Illinois once everybody flees up here. O’boy it will go downhill from here folks. Weakening of the unions, no minimum wage, no benefits, and anything else my buddy can come up with to put more hurt on the working class of Illinois. Don’t worry I have plenty of low paying jobs with no benefits. There awesome to if I failed to mention that too. Yea, Illinois will have less money for colleges cause Bruce almighty is going to strip it all away. Don’t worr because I have no college degree and that did not stop me becoming a great governor. Then he will push all the states problems to the local level. This is how I solved the red state of WIS issues. It was a great idea because I remedied the states problems pushing down to the local level. Boy it worked here. Well good luck today folkes of Illinois and get some aspirin cause you’ll need after today. Sincerely your favor red state gov who will be running for president.