Nope. Not helpful at all. But just the beginning of the angst directed at our governor. In case people like him don’t know……….lots of folks are struggling. His desire to make it even more difficult will not create a spirit of good will. Some might say there are more acceptable ways to direct that anger? Like what when you’re up against big money?
- William j Kelly - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 10:53 am:
And all the while rauner was thinking, ‘perfect, operation Scott walker superstar is ahead of schedule.’
Let’s see Rauner roll the actual campaign commercials — the one’s that are honest about the policy he’s trying to implement. The one’s where he argues for the complete dismantling and abolition of collective bargaining in Illinois.
That’s the real “You suck” to the middle-income earners. It’s not the middle finger, but I gotta admit: the middle finger is more honest and concise than the whiny, “Madigan is a bad guy. Help me” million dollar commercials.
That is exactly what Rauner wants and those labor guys are dumb enough to give it to him for free.
He wants the unions to boo him. He is begging for their scorn. He wants picketers at his events and outside his office. Do not give him what he wants. Instead of vitriol, ignore him or mock him. Make fun of him, but don’t make him a hero to his supporters.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:03 am:
I think it IS helpful.
These are white, suburban, middle class men. 30 years ago, they were Reagan Democrats, but now they lean pretty heavily Republican. Until the Republicans mess with their pay checks.
These are the people that elected Bruce Rauner, and his advisors have been telling him that if he just stays the course, They will love him for it. it is time he heard the truth.
- The Dude Abides - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:05 am:
I can understand their animosity, the Governor wants to substantially reduce their standard of living and would end collective bargaining for everyone in a minute if he could get away with it.
That said, this is embarrassingly poor behavior and reflects on all Union people when they act like that. It just engenders more anti Union feelings with the public when stuff like this is shown on TV. They are doing Rauner a favor when they act like that.
== People loved it when AFSCME did it to Quinn. ==
Yeah, but nobody really liked Quinn.
If they want to get the public behind them, the unions should come up with some clever mockery. Something portraying Rauner as an out of touch king, a judge sentencing the poor people to poverty / debtor’s jail, some authority figure throwing out the baby with the bath water, a banker foreclosing on the family farm, etc. Do all you can to subliminally reinforce the 1% message.
If you want to cut through, keep the message simple and funny.
They also had a lot of signs about saving the middle class. and were chanting against RTW so just focusing on the few that gave him the finger is silly. Working People in Illinois are showing their disgust for a Governor who has done nothing except try and break UNIONS!!
- Boone's is Back - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:06 am:
Rich are you sure those weren’t Tampa fans upon the return of the lightning?
===They will love him for it. it is time he heard the truth.===
I don’t disagree. I just think it’s dumb to give him the visual he wants. It is clear he wants to be the Illinois version of Scott Walker and the union demonstrators are helping give him what he wants.
The pro-union side can still organize and put the energy to good use. They just should not force angry public confrontations like this. Ridicule, not anger, will get the point across.
Reminds me of the knee-jerk vitriol coming from some State politics blog commenters these days. Wonder if some of them stretched their legs yesterday in Oak Forest…
===These are white, suburban, middle class men. 30 years ago, they were Reagan Democrats, but now they lean pretty heavily Republican. Until the Republicans mess with their pay checks.===
Wow, is this good.
This is why I’m with 150 and not with Rauner on these labor issues.
The Operating Engineers backed Republicans. I used “backed” because here in Illinois, you’d be hard pressed to find a GOP GA member willing to be embraced by 150, with Rauner looking on.
The Reagan Democrats that helped Thompson, Edgar, Judy Baar Topinka… they are not welcome by Rauner.
One major breaking difference between Republican and Raunerite; no open tent to Labor.
- Under Further Review - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:14 am:
The Scott Walker comparison is more than a trifle off base. Wisconsin also gave Walker support by sending more GOP legislators to Madison. Rauner is in a much more difficult position as the Democrats have solid majorities in the GA.
- Pot calling kettle - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:17 am:
One of the reasons they are so mad is that they feel like Rauner betrayed them. Many of them voted for Rauner, and now he has turned on them and they are really mad. (I know, he didn’t turn on them, they just heard what they wanted to in the run-up to the General Election.)
Rauner could have turned on them, betrayed them, whatever. You absolutely do not lose your cool like this when others like Rauner plead for demonstrations of this nature to help them.
- YDD - is On Point, but union workers, even betrayed Reagan Democrats absolutely can not help Rauner this way.
This is why Labor is “losing” the optics part of the discussion.
Not good PR. They should take a lesson from Rauner himself when he tells the union members that they don’t matter to him - and that he hates their guts. Its just that Rauner knows how to do it, maintaining good PR. The Rauner approach:
SMILE, Tell them they make too much money SMILE Tell them the are part of the evil, corrupt Madigan regime SMILE, tell them you want to take away their standard of living SMILE SOME MORE, politely badmouth them on everything you can think of. And it all looks good on the camera as long as he stays polite and keeps on smiling.
Highlights the problem when you gather a bunch of amateurs to protest. Where were the handlers enforcing some pre-determined message discipline?
Starting to get real concerned the Madigan/Cullerton brain trust is not playing chess, thinking three moves ahead, and instead has sat down to play poker with Rauner.
They had 200 to 300 people out there. Its not easy to keep that large of a group totally in line. Especially since they were from a whole bunch of different locals. There will always be a couple of knuckle heads in large groups. Its the law of numbers.
And its not like it was Jorge Ramirez or Mike Carrigan the one giving him the finger.
Political anger has its place - just look at how the Tea Party surged to prominence in 2010. Lots of town hall meetings where Congresspeople in swing districts were shouted down, chased out of meetings and generally set on the run.
I think the fact Rauner’s attacks have been so broad on labor that he is helping re-crystalize its power in places, especially outside Chicago (ie, those mobilizations on the Right To Work resolutions). He could have stuck to using contract negotiations to gut AFSCME and SEIU, and left the trades alone for this year. I mean, he does have a 4 year term, right?
Unfortunately the trade union folks can be undisciplined and frankly unruly. I’m frankly surprised they only gave the finger and booed him. As Rauner amps it up, his security detail is likely to get bigger. The Governor is wacking a wasp nest going after prevailing wage. The majority of the trades folks that I know voted for Rauner and are beyond livid feeling betrayed. That’s why looking at statistics of Rauner winning counties and districts is pretty foolish. The union members who voted for Rauner down South because of Quinns betrayal are regretting the mistake and are going about paying for their error. (going after him)
Curse words might offend some middle class sensibilities. However, Let’s not beat around the bush. Rauner is engaging in full-on class warfare. The wealthy elite in this country have a history of using tactics far worse than curse words. Trying to undermine the foundation of the working class and middle class is far worse than using curse words. I don’t see how using curse words is such a bad thing when you are trying to save your future.
Come to think of it, that might be a good idea for a pro-Union ad.
(Scene is a diner)
Person 1: “Those Unions, they’re all greedy.”
Person 2: “‘Those Unions’ are the ones that fix our plumbing, wire our homes, care for Grandma. package our food, build our cares, give us entertainment, keep us safe and more. They’re fighting the maintain a decent standard of living for everyone. Without ‘those unions’ this country would…” etc.
Under Further Review - the Scott Walker comparison is dead on. Rauner’s people want their Walker moment, but they just can’t find it. They are throwing issues out right and left hoping one will stick - like throwing spaghetti at a wall - but nothing is going the way they want. They’re frustrated and unfortunately, that means they will likely ratchet up the personal attacks because the substantive ones aren’t working.
You’d think a billionaire businessman would be a smarter negotiator.
=== Pot calling kettle - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:17 am:
One of the reasons they are so mad is that they feel like Rauner betrayed them. Many of them voted for Rauner, and now he has turned on them and they are really mad.===
I walked a lot of precincts in this past election. I keep hearing about all these folks who voted for Rauner. Sure coulda fooled me based on the clothing the opposition was wearing. But hey, if you say unions put Rauner over the top, I’m just gonna have to believe you. /s
These people are frustrated, angry, and afraid. They don’t know any other way of expressing themselves. It sucks and it’s just playing into Rauner’s hands.
PS. The Democrats and unions should take a screen shot of Rauner’s smug smile at the end of his commercial and use that to create anti-billionaire messaging.
I may not approve, but I do understand. I live down here. This area has been hammered, and union guys have had long dry spells without work. Things were finally starting to improve, and now major projects such as Iliana and the airport are tanking, and Rauner is openly attacking them. The rank and file are angry and scared. Like I said, I don’t approve, but I understand.
And I don’t see this in Rauner ads. You don’t want to show this - people will wonder why the white middle class is so angry. He won’t allow any deviation from his message.
- Formerly Known As... - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:40 am:
==These are white, suburban, middle class men. 30 years ago, they were Reagan Democrats==
These protesters are union members being attacked by Rauner, as they have been since the primaries more than a year ago. 30 years ago, Reagan broke the air traffic controllers union.
Respectfully, these individuals did not elect Rauner or reelect Reagan. They did everything they could to fight Rauner. If he sees ==white, suburban, middle class men== who are not union members protesting, then he would worry. But ==union members== are hardly Rauner’s ==base==, and this is what he wants.
– Sure coulda fooled me based on the clothing the opposition was wearing.–
What in the world are you babbling about?
- Six Degrees of Separation - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:51 am:
Yeah, the South Suburbs are heavily Republican…
Anyone old enough to remember Congressman Ed Derwinski knows the former Republican nature of the south suburbs, straight out of William Whyte’s “The Organization Man” book of the late 1950’s. They don’t live in Flossmoor or Chicago Heights too much anymore, but Tinley, Mokena, Monee, Crete…
FKA, you’re kidding yourself if you think white union members didn’t vote for Rauner or re-elect Reagan.
Not to get into the whole fictional revisionism of PATCO again, but they didn’t even have the support of the pilots, stewardess or ground crew unions when they went on tneir illegal wildcat strike.
Reagan had no intention of “busting” PATCO, who endorsed him, or any anti-union agenda when he took office. It’s Scott Walker fantasy.
Sling, don’t be inane. The T shirts and stickers the opposing folks were wearing were all union identifiers, especially in the primary where they were promoting Dillard. In north DuPage, it’s not so common to see the unions actively campaigning. This past time, they were out there in an obvious way, UAW, teachers, trades, #150.
If you attended the memorial of Judy, you would have heard the jokes from the dias about Bruce Rauner showing up at their hall.
For several days I’ve read about all these union cats who supported Rauner. I’m sure there were some, but not large numbers. Look how they treat you when you don’t agree with them…you think anyone wants to go through that?
Their tactics are old school and they repulse indies. Even the indies who might agree with them get turned off. Case in point; this entry up top. No one wants to be associated with thugs but other thugs. This was very thuggish behavior.
I’m not defending their actions. But when someone like Rauner is threatening their jobs and financial security as they know it, tempers are going to flare. The union leaders need to come up with PR plans that have their members behaving in a better, more disciplined manner, if they want support from the general public.
Yeah, but then again. Our so-called ‘governor’ has been denigrating, demonizing and on a mission to destroy all the good Unions have done over decades. He wanted & brought that reaction on himself, the great unifier.
dais* sorry. (as to the jokes, I think Mr. Miller was one of those who relayed the irony of Rauner being in that location and how JBT did the impossible by getting him there)
Can those of you saying this was counterproductive and that they should have thought about their messaging really believe that? They are angry and afraid working class guys who want to tell this schmuck just what they think of him. When your emotions get going do you really think about messaging? I don’t think it hurts as much as you may believe. It shows that Rauner has some very high negatives with some people.
There are Union member regrets for those who supported Rauner. This past weekend I saw a friend - former teacher - who had voted for Rauner, as did her husband - a current cop. They wanted change. Now they very much regret their votes. They aren’t the only ones, I’m sure.
Guy, were the Rauner supporters you encountered wearing top hats, tails and monocles?
And those in opposition who were obviously union members due to their “clothing,” what were they wearing?
Carharrt? Harley tees?
Dude, you’re a laugh riot.
- Albany Park Patriot - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 12:03 pm:
Ain’t no victimhood like Republican victimhood. They spend a lot of money trying to generate these images-I hope the union folks are smarter than playing into their hands, no matter how hard it is.
===Exit polling conducted for The Associated Press and TV stations also showed that despite organized labor being Gov. Pat Quinn’s largest source of campaign funds, the Chicago Democrat wasn’t able to capitalize on the union vote as much as he might have wanted. He fell short of hopes in his hometown as well.
…
UNION VOTE
Organized labor spent millions on ads attacking Rauner and in donations to Quinn. But on Election Day, many union members and their families still cast their ballots for Rauner.
Thirty-two percent of voters were from union households. Quinn got 58 percent of their votes, compared with 41 percent for Rauner.===
” Unruly ” is mild - Historically , wage, hour and working condition issues generated outright violence by both Labor and Mgmt. Fighting Words generate Fights.
When you victimize the victimizer, he will finds support among the ignorant.
Bruce Rauner just spent about $100,000,000 to become a household name. He just spent a million to run ads this week. The worst thing in the world to someone like Bruce Rauner is to be IGNORED and IRRELEVENT.
Give him what he hates.
- Formerly Known As... - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 12:12 pm:
Wordslinger, maybe that comment should have been more specific.
PATCO members obviously did not vote to reelect Reagan after he broke their union in 1981. Would you vote for the man who broke your union and replaced you in your job while on strike?
As for Rauner, some white union members voted for Rauner. But not the ones who are showing up on a weekday at local RTW hearings or to protest his appearances. Those union members are more likely the politically aware ones who raised alarm over his anti-union message over one year ago or were crossing over in the primary to vote for Dillard over Rauner.
So what were we saying a few days ago on Capitol Fax when Rauner’s supporter was reflecting poorly on him?
- Because I said so... - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 12:30 pm:
It was really impressive to see hundreds of union members standing in the pouring rain for well over an hour waiting for Rauner who entered through the back door. There were even disabled adults and children out in the rain protesting.
Really ironic to listen to Rauner talk about helping the middle class while the middle class was right outside the room loudly protesting.
The Governor is attacking their livelihood. You can’t blame a few for not keeping their cool.
I’d urge the union folks to give the Governor all the legal grief you can and make every public appearance a suspenseful and unpleasant adventure. Yes, get after him 24/7. After all he’s coming for you..
Shows what a wonderful boss he really is. As head of the executive branch, these are his employees. Treat them better and this would not happen. Unfortunately, look at his track record of treating those under him in the private sector as a corporate raider…
- Formerly Known As... - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 1:15 pm:
==You can’t blame a few for not keeping their cool.==
You can’t. Rauner is attacking them, but if union leaders explain he wants this sort of behavior then it should stop. They won’t give him his Scott Walker moment.
I doubt that the union workers that were protesting in that manner were the state employees that work under the Governor, AFSCME, SEIU, etc. They were probably from the all the other unions. Say what you want about the unions, but they do stick together and they were not given thousands of dollars to do it!
X Ace makes a good point. Labor/management, labor/capital disputes in Illinois history have been known to go the full nine yards.
You had steelworkers and tneir families shot in the back by cops at a Memorial Day picnic on the South Side of Chicago. And they still haven’t found all the bodies of some of the strikebreakers at the coal mines in Little Egypt.
You’re talking about how folks put bread on the table. That’s combustible stuff.
Rauner cannot lose on this. Unions are a racket to support the leadership. The struggling person cannot relate anymore to the BA’s stuffing their faces at Il Vincinato while the rank and file can’t feed their families.
Yellow Dog Democrat you hit a grand-slam with that summation. I live in an area mixed with blue collar and white collar workers. This weekend while at a neighborhood event I could not believe the private industry union workers ripping the Gov. These are the same guys who have been voting Repub for the past 20 years and loudly boasting about it. Should be a fascinating summer.
I wasn’t wrong. Remember, I’ve been calling Rauner the GOP Blago from early on in the campaign; think I started after hearing him speak multiple times and hearing three different, and spun, speeches.
Unfortunately, others didn’t see through him before the election. I thought Rauner would be a disaster for the State … and it’s turning out that way. All of us are along for the ride on this 4 year slow motion trian wreck.
A Guy: Ok, here’s a challenge for you then, come down to Springfield and stand on the Capitol complex, then tell me exactly which people are union and which aren’t. Sheesh, talk about sweeping generalities.
- Union Protester - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 2:27 pm:
Maybe I missed it, but I didn’t see any middle fingers pressed anywhere. Makes an interesting story to say that it happened.
Wait until the pitchforks are raised and the tumbrils start rolling.
Change begins from the bottom up.
- Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 2:40 pm:
As OW says he doesn’t feel sorry for unions for not stopping Rauner, I feel the same in a way for union members who voted for Rauner and Scott Walker and are now upset because of right to work in Wisconsin and the attacks in Illinois.
Unions have had various successes lately: great showings at local government hearings, beating back right to work, the ISC pension victory and member unity events. Part of me says they should not sabotage their successes with actions such as those in this story.
The other part of me says that the governor and his billionare supporters, and others like them, have been trying to eradicate unions all over America, so being cursed at and flipped off are pretty minor by comparison. A war is being waged against unions by the super-rich, so what’s worse, some bad words/gestures or widespread and severe economic damage?
Speaking of this, an article is out today about a new front opened up by state government Republicans and the likes of Americans for Prosperity against unions: trying to get rid prevailing wage laws.
So again, in these anti-union contexts, swear words and gestures are relatively inoffensive to me.
I do think this unions do need to stay positive, so I’d much rather see them engage in positive activities, such as educating the public as to their value, and following the peaceful leads of great leaders like Martin Luther King, Jr.
The thing is, outside of folks who work in government and folks you know via politics how many union members to you know?
I suspect some of you know union members, to be honest I don’t think I do outside of some teachers and other government workers.
It is obvious the attitude of people about unions has changed, you may not like that but it is the truth. Hell, Michigan is a right to work state and they failed to recall Walker.
Blaming rich guys, isn’t going to change that. You need to convince people that unions they don’t belong to add value to their lives. Until that happens union members flipping off the governor play right into the idea that unions look out for their members only.
The one he is spending a million dollars on television trying to project? The ads he had a staff write up, edit, review, send to video production, edit, review and then copy and distribute to specific television stations?
A Guy: Ok, here’s a challenge for you then, come down to Springfield and stand on the Capitol complex, then tell me exactly which people are union and which aren’t. Sheesh, talk about sweeping generalities.===
I’ll meet you at lunch time when there’s a planned rally. I’ll point them out to you.
I’m talking about people canvassing, which they have every right to do. If you’re in the Sierra Club, you wear their stuff, UAW, same, IEA, same. They’re not trying to hide.
I just keep hearing about all the union support for Rauner here. I’m saying, I just didn’t see it. Exit polling says it occurred (union families- whatever the heck you need to qualify to be in that group)
I’d say those folks are not identifying themselves as union folks first. OR, they are in conflict with their union. If that’s the case, I suspect they still are.
But I’ve read here that Rauner has been the great uniter for union folks and they’re stronger than ever.
I suspect the truth lies in there somewhere. They don’t like each other very much, that’s for sure.
The exit polling in November 2014 had 32% of those voting claim they are from Union households.
About 1 in 3. One in three voters. That’s pretty significant, arguably, and Rauner getting 41% of that 1 in 3 in a subgroup Quinn possibly should run up totals in, it was impactful.
How the Unions go about educating their members or controlling the voters’ bloc in the State House and State Senate races gets very intense.
Thanks - GOM -, yes, I have zero sympathy for the Unions. They had their chances, and these are the consequences.
How the union workers decide to react and be impactful will decide how important they will be in all these races. Acting as described in this Post is not helping.
===I’d say those folks are not identifying themselves as union folks first. OR, they are in conflict with their union. If that’s the case, I suspect they still are.===
Whaaa?
They were asked if they lived in a union household. Yes or no.
Look, spinning yourself to ignore what others see in statistics, that don’t meet your imaginary world, isn’t our fault.
===The exit polling in November 2014 had 32% of those voting claim they are from Union households.===
Asking people on the way out of the polls who/what they voted for. Foolproof. Especially after an over-polled season like last one.
Union Households= someone in the household is/was in a union.
If what you’re peddlin’ here is true, the unions have much, much greater problems internally than they have with Rauner. If he’s resonating with them at a 1 in 3 clip, these are not happy campers.
An effective narrative is rarely spontaneous, it is built out over time.
== == the idea that unions look out for their members only==
Isn’t that sort of what they are supposed to do? ====
Yep, totally. The thing is you can do that and make others think it is in their best interest as well. Because when it comes down to it, most people think, in general, what is best for them.
Do I think the teachers union is about making it so my kids have the best teachers or is it about protecting the couple of teachers they have had over the years who should be in a different line of work.
If more people saw unions as a positive for them, more of them would be in unions and the “risks” of right to work, even if it was in place would be reduced.
We know lots of union members but many people may not realize it. The guy at church who maintains the church’s HVAC systems in his spare time - steamfitters. Neighbor who’s an electrician - IBEW. Family - iron worker.
And this doesn’t include government workers you may know, like your kid’s teachers or the cop down the block.
Guy, exit polls may not be foolproof, but I suspect they have a wee bit more validity than walking around your block, drawing conclusions on how people are dressed and then applying that “knowledge” on a statewide basis.
== If what you’re peddlin’ here is true, the unions have much, much greater problems internally than they have with Rauner. ==
Not necessarily. Central / southern Illinois there were quite a few union-friendly GOP. We even have fiscally conservative Dems. Both groups got fooled by Rauner when he went dark about unions in the general.
- Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 4:06 pm:
“Both groups got fooled by Rauner when he went dark about unions in the general.”
That’s how governors like Rauner, Walker and Snyder operate. Go dark in general election campaigns, say it’s not a priority, then when the moment is right, pass RTW.
===but I suspect they have a wee bit more validity than walking around your block, drawing conclusions on how people are dressed and then applying that “knowledge” on a statewide basis.===
Gee Sling, the App we were using was a wee bit more sophisticated than that and my mom permitted me to go beyond my block this time. The App had statewide results tabulated, not just the few thousand crumby interviews I did on porches.
Willy, if one of my children is a teacher, am I a Union household? I’ll wait.
RNUG, I know you to be a decent chap. How many of those folks are in the union by strong choice down yonder? The state pushed that process with many state employees.
== How many of those folks are in the union by strong choice down yonder? ==
All the ones I mentioned live in Springfield / Sangamon County and do NOT work for the State / Country / City, unless you want to count the teachers and police, which I specifically noted worked for government.
It would have been way too easy to list all my friends who are AFSCME / SURS / TRS members … so I didn’t include them.
I also used to live in a coal mining town; almost that entire town was union, except for the guy who owned the beer distributorship.
As I have noted before, I grew up with one side of the family being blue collar union members and the other side being small business / shopkeepers … which probably gives me a bit better perspective about both sides than a lot of people have.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 5:06 pm:
Thanks Anon 2:12 and all the rest.
My dad was one of these guys when he was still alive. When you come after a guy’s paycheck, the way Bruce Rauner is, you are coming after his wife, his kids, his house, his dreams.
So yeah, you are gonna get the bird and a lot of angry words.
And frankly, since Rauner doesn’t read newspapers, mainly goes out to meet with business groups or in otherwise controlled events, I think he has become isolated from the people he thinks he is fighting for.
If he had been at all of those townhall meetings on his RTW proposal, we would have passed a budget by now.
And as far as playing into his hands: an SEIU protest, and AFSCME protest, a confrontation with the Chicago Teachers Union would be playing into his hands.
But white suburban men? Sprinklerfitters may not all go to mass every Sunday, but they coach little league, they attend high school football games, they own homes, mow their lawn and pay their taxes, although they complain about them.
I would be willing to bet it was the union construction workers and prison guards whom did the honors of harassing the gov., and not the state workers.
“I would be willing to bet it was the union construction workers and prison guards whom did the honors of harassing the gov., and not the state workers.”
Prison guards ARE state workers and the majority of the protesters at this event were skilled union tradesmen, not public sector employees.
Nice generalization of your bogeyman, uncouth union thugs.
Rauner talks about going to Wisconsin, Indiana and Texas - all at the expense of the tax payer - to get jobs back. It doesn’t work that way.
Companies do not just pack up and move because you reform a law. Companies take years to plan a budget. They look at everything before making the decision. Then they can spend a year or longer looking for a destination. Then a year or two longer to get the destination up to snuff. By this time Rauner is out of job and these jobs still have not moved to Illinois.
People cannot continue to remain uninformed. You cannot just rely on what someone says.
Amazon is pulling out of Arizona and Kansas, both “right to work” states because they have bad transportation operations. They want to move to better transportation options.
IBM has let go half of its force in Iowa after 6 years of moving there because they are unskilled. The employees never bothered to get the skills to grow with the technology. Now IBM wants to hire 5700 HB-1 Visa workers, mainly from student visa workers - all who will work for less wages but higher skill level. Iowa is a right to work state and don’t think for one minute that a company won’t do that to each of us. Matter of fact, a right to work state, they could let you go even if you have all the skills, for someone who will accept less.
I am not a union employee and never have been. But I do understand what the unions do present for those of us, who aren’t. They make things better. Do I agree with everything they do? No. Am I naive to think that the top honchos are just regular joes? NO. I am old enough to have lived through and know exactly who Jimmy Hoffa is and NO I do not know where he is buried.
Yes I do believe that at times they get greedy, when it is best to pass, like the soon to be fight with CPS and Chicago Teachers. But that is more of a personality issue than a monetary one.
-YDD-, I understand exactly what you are saying. I have both iron workers and coal miners in various branches of the family tree. Those guys didn’t take kindly to anyone who threatened their livelihood.
The thing is, outside of folks who work in government and folks you know via politics how many union members to you know?
I suspect some of you know union members, to be honest I don’t think I do outside of some teachers and other government workers.
It is obvious the attitude of people about unions has changed, you may not like that but it is the truth. Hell, Michigan is a right to work state and they failed to recall Walker.
Blaming rich guys, isn’t going to change that. You need to convince people that unions they don’t belong to add value to their lives. Until that happens union members flipping off the governor play right into the idea that unions look out for their members only.==
One Man, I think you are playing the 10 card when you are holding the Ace. You know more union workers than you want to let onto. Your local fire, police, municipal, postal, grocery clerk, teacher, electrician, plumber, virtually every aspect of some type of construction has union workers.
As for Michigan not recalling Walker, it would have been feat if they had. Now Wisconsin on the other hand barely lost the recall Walker election. Sometimes people read a win as an overwhelming win when it is just a few votes difference.
Oh I live in the South Suburban Mayor conference area and the issue never even made it to the news. I first heard and read about his appearance here.
== 144 comments and not one idea or answer to the problems this state is facing…just air ==
Simple math - even after either Rauner’s or the GA’s cuts, the state needs revenue.
Want ideas of how to get said revenue? Use Google; there have been plenty of ideas discussed here the past years by people who know what they are talking about, including a former budget director.
Rauner wants his turnaround agenda - several of his issues have had deals on the table but without the anti-union poison pills. Again, use Google. It’s been discussed here. He didn’t work it; he didn’t have his floor leaders ask for amendments; he didn’t even introduce his bills in a timely fashion or at all. Just means Rauner doesn’t want reform or improvement; means he just wants to destroy unions.
You can’t try to get your agenda passed if you won’t even participate in the legislative process.
144 comments and not one idea or answer to the problems this state is facing…just air==
What real issues are we facing? Under funded pension plan that was caused to due under funded payments for decades that have now come to balloon payments. Something that cannot be reformed because of our state constitution.
So what has Rauner planned to fix the issue? Cut spending unless we change laws to fit his desires, which is lower everything and bust unions. That still won’t change the compensation laws in our constitution.
Rauner got elected under the pretense of “freezing” property taxes. I spoke out for 2 years about this. Very few people listened. NO one is going to get property taxes frozen because the only property taxes that our legislators can freeze are state property taxes, and we don’t have state property taxes.
But people relied on just what was said and never bothered to research. Now this is what we are stuck with and people still just want to rely on what is said.
He didn’t work it; he didn’t have his floor leaders ask for amendments; he didn’t even introduce his bills in a timely fashion or at all. ==
Exactly. He had Radogno rewrite some bills that had already been on the table and read three times, thus to bypass committees and put to a vote 2 weeks ago.
During the Capitol protests in Wisconsin in 2011 when Fox News couldn’t find thuggy looking union guys in a heated argument, they just used footage from some place with palm trees. Inflatable palm trees became common at the protests.
I think it’s also important to understand that unions don’t get to pick who is in their bargaining unit. This is not to say some unions couldn’t do a better job developing their membership.
Also, exit polls have big problems. Union hating right-wingers have every reason to say they are from a union household and voted for Rauner / Walker.
All that said, I think Oswego Willy is correct. Rauner wants heated conflict like in Wisconsin. As long as the Dems hold the legislature, it’s not like Wisconsin was in 2011.
One local news station in Chicago played the ad in their coverage followed by the same ad at the break. A good counter ad with a much small run would probably pick up a lot of free media.
144 comments and not one idea or answer to the problems this state is facing…just air”
Rauner, we are not talking about sully ruins in this stream. We are talking about you being booed by your paid anti-Union thugs pretending to be union guys. We have talked about solutions in many other streams.
I am happy that you are reading this blog, maybe you will learn something and grow out of your shell.
- so... - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 10:50 am:
Classy folks…
- Dave Dahl - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 10:51 am:
Cue Dandy Don Meredith: just saying Rauner is Number One …
- Snucka - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 10:51 am:
Unfortunate, but he has pretty much been doing/saying the same thing to them for 18 months.
- Tough Guy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 10:52 am:
Guess you reap what you sow.
- AnonymousOne - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 10:52 am:
Nope. Not helpful at all. But just the beginning of the angst directed at our governor. In case people like him don’t know……….lots of folks are struggling. His desire to make it even more difficult will not create a spirit of good will. Some might say there are more acceptable ways to direct that anger? Like what when you’re up against big money?
- William j Kelly - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 10:53 am:
And all the while rauner was thinking, ‘perfect, operation Scott walker superstar is ahead of schedule.’
- Frenchie Mendoza - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 10:54 am:
Let’s see Rauner roll the actual campaign commercials — the one’s that are honest about the policy he’s trying to implement. The one’s where he argues for the complete dismantling and abolition of collective bargaining in Illinois.
That’s the real “You suck” to the middle-income earners. It’s not the middle finger, but I gotta admit: the middle finger is more honest and concise than the whiny, “Madigan is a bad guy. Help me” million dollar commercials.
- 47th Ward - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 10:54 am:
That is exactly what Rauner wants and those labor guys are dumb enough to give it to him for free.
He wants the unions to boo him. He is begging for their scorn. He wants picketers at his events and outside his office. Do not give him what he wants. Instead of vitriol, ignore him or mock him. Make fun of him, but don’t make him a hero to his supporters.
Can’t anybody play this game?
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 10:55 am:
I guess Rauner can count him as a “minus”.
BTW, you are playing into Rauner’s hands with “actions” such as those. Congratulations, you’re not helping.
- Ahoy! - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 10:55 am:
Not surprising at all…
- Austin Blvd - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 10:58 am:
People loved it when AFSCME did it to Quinn.
- RNUG - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 10:59 am:
Union members playing into Rauner’s hands.
All he’s doing is collecting video for future ads to show the tax paying public how the unions refuse to help turn the State around.
As -47th Ward- notes, the unions don’t know how to play this game. It’s a Public Relations war, and these are losing actions.
- A guy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:02 am:
Unfortunately…it’s what they do.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:03 am:
I think it IS helpful.
These are white, suburban, middle class men. 30 years ago, they were Reagan Democrats, but now they lean pretty heavily Republican. Until the Republicans mess with their pay checks.
These are the people that elected Bruce Rauner, and his advisors have been telling him that if he just stays the course, They will love him for it. it is time he heard the truth.
- The Dude Abides - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:05 am:
I can understand their animosity, the Governor wants to substantially reduce their standard of living and would end collective bargaining for everyone in a minute if he could get away with it.
That said, this is embarrassingly poor behavior and reflects on all Union people when they act like that. It just engenders more anti Union feelings with the public when stuff like this is shown on TV. They are doing Rauner a favor when they act like that.
- RNUG - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:05 am:
== People loved it when AFSCME did it to Quinn. ==
Yeah, but nobody really liked Quinn.
If they want to get the public behind them, the unions should come up with some clever mockery. Something portraying Rauner as an out of touch king, a judge sentencing the poor people to poverty / debtor’s jail, some authority figure throwing out the baby with the bath water, a banker foreclosing on the family farm, etc. Do all you can to subliminally reinforce the 1% message.
If you want to cut through, keep the message simple and funny.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:06 am:
I don’t think dropping your ings is all that classy!
- chiagr - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:06 am:
They also had a lot of signs about saving the middle class. and were chanting against RTW so just focusing on the few that gave him the finger is silly. Working People in Illinois are showing their disgust for a Governor who has done nothing except try and break UNIONS!!
- Boone's is Back - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:06 am:
Rich are you sure those weren’t Tampa fans upon the return of the lightning?
- 47th Ward - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:08 am:
===They will love him for it. it is time he heard the truth.===
I don’t disagree. I just think it’s dumb to give him the visual he wants. It is clear he wants to be the Illinois version of Scott Walker and the union demonstrators are helping give him what he wants.
The pro-union side can still organize and put the energy to good use. They just should not force angry public confrontations like this. Ridicule, not anger, will get the point across.
- chiagr - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:08 am:
Where are the pics of all the peaceful Union protesters from yesterday? there were plenty taken by the newspapers and featured online.
- Makes Sense - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:08 am:
Sorry to offend, Rich. Let me be more diplomatic:
Reminds me of the knee-jerk vitriol coming from some State politics blog commenters these days. Wonder if some of them stretched their legs yesterday in Oak Forest…
- Nick Danger - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:08 am:
Freedom of speech and expression. Gotta love it no matter who you root for.
- Frenchie Mendoza - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:08 am:
Since when has American political opposition stayed silent?
This idea of “playing into Rauner’s game” is nonsense. Maybe the union is as fringe as Rauner is fringe — but so what?
Rauner’s not staying silent — why should labor? What, million dollar campaign commercials when there’s no campaign is somehow more classy?
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:09 am:
chiagr, did I miss something or did you just answer your own question?
- Cassiopeia - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:10 am:
Were they wearing printed t-shirts and signs? That’s a sure example of spontaneity
These union “protestors” just provided some more film footage for the future PR campaign which they will lose if they keep this up.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:10 am:
===These are white, suburban, middle class men. 30 years ago, they were Reagan Democrats, but now they lean pretty heavily Republican. Until the Republicans mess with their pay checks.===
Wow, is this good.
This is why I’m with 150 and not with Rauner on these labor issues.
The Operating Engineers backed Republicans. I used “backed” because here in Illinois, you’d be hard pressed to find a GOP GA member willing to be embraced by 150, with Rauner looking on.
The Reagan Democrats that helped Thompson, Edgar, Judy Baar Topinka… they are not welcome by Rauner.
One major breaking difference between Republican and Raunerite; no open tent to Labor.
- Juan MacLean - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:13 am:
To be fair, he started it.
- William - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:14 am:
Typical unions.
- Under Further Review - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:14 am:
The Scott Walker comparison is more than a trifle off base. Wisconsin also gave Walker support by sending more GOP legislators to Madison. Rauner is in a much more difficult position as the Democrats have solid majorities in the GA.
- Wordslinger - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:16 am:
Not cool. No excuse. Hurts your cause.
- Peoria Guy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:17 am:
Gotta love those unions. All class.
- Pot calling kettle - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:17 am:
One of the reasons they are so mad is that they feel like Rauner betrayed them. Many of them voted for Rauner, and now he has turned on them and they are really mad. (I know, he didn’t turn on them, they just heard what they wanted to in the run-up to the General Election.)
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:20 am:
Rauner could have turned on them, betrayed them, whatever. You absolutely do not lose your cool like this when others like Rauner plead for demonstrations of this nature to help them.
- YDD - is On Point, but union workers, even betrayed Reagan Democrats absolutely can not help Rauner this way.
This is why Labor is “losing” the optics part of the discussion.
- Skeptic - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:20 am:
“Instead of vitriol, ignore him or mock him. Make fun of him, but don’t make him a hero to his supporters.” and vote Democratic.
- Joe M - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:21 am:
Not good PR. They should take a lesson from Rauner himself when he tells the union members that they don’t matter to him - and that he hates their guts. Its just that Rauner knows how to do it, maintaining good PR. The Rauner approach:
SMILE, Tell them they make too much money SMILE Tell them the are part of the evil, corrupt Madigan regime SMILE, tell them you want to take away their standard of living SMILE SOME MORE, politely badmouth them on everything you can think of. And it all looks good on the camera as long as he stays polite and keeps on smiling.
- ChrisB - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:22 am:
@YDD
–These are white, suburban, middle class men. 30 years ago, they were Reagan Democrats, but now they lean pretty heavily Republican.–
Yeah, the South Suburbs are heavily Republican…
- Skeptic - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:22 am:
“Gotta love those unions. All class.” Thank you for painting me with your broad brush. (yes that was sarcasm.)
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:24 am:
===Yeah, the South Suburbs are heavily Republican===
Overall, no. But the “white” parts still lean that way.
- A guy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:24 am:
When NYPD was upset with DeBlasio (for very good reason!) They turned their backs to him very publicly.
If you act like a thug, you’re going to be viewed as a thug.
Both images have durable staying power.
- Tourés Latte - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:24 am:
Highlights the problem when you gather a bunch of amateurs to protest. Where were the handlers enforcing some pre-determined message discipline?
Starting to get real concerned the Madigan/Cullerton brain trust is not playing chess, thinking three moves ahead, and instead has sat down to play poker with Rauner.
- Been There - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:25 am:
They had 200 to 300 people out there. Its not easy to keep that large of a group totally in line. Especially since they were from a whole bunch of different locals. There will always be a couple of knuckle heads in large groups. Its the law of numbers.
And its not like it was Jorge Ramirez or Mike Carrigan the one giving him the finger.
- Century Club - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:25 am:
Political anger has its place - just look at how the Tea Party surged to prominence in 2010. Lots of town hall meetings where Congresspeople in swing districts were shouted down, chased out of meetings and generally set on the run.
I think the fact Rauner’s attacks have been so broad on labor that he is helping re-crystalize its power in places, especially outside Chicago (ie, those mobilizations on the Right To Work resolutions). He could have stuck to using contract negotiations to gut AFSCME and SEIU, and left the trades alone for this year. I mean, he does have a 4 year term, right?
- Team Sleep - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:26 am:
Rich - I believe ChrisB was being sarcastic.
This is just like what happened last week in Decatur. One of Rauner’s supporters and a childcare provider got into a shouting match.
No one wins when this happens.
- D.P.Gumby - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:26 am:
Reminds me of a certain Republican House member during the State of the Union…except NOT.
- Honeybear - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:27 am:
Unfortunately the trade union folks can be undisciplined and frankly unruly. I’m frankly surprised they only gave the finger and booed him. As Rauner amps it up, his security detail is likely to get bigger. The Governor is wacking a wasp nest going after prevailing wage. The majority of the trades folks that I know voted for Rauner and are beyond livid feeling betrayed. That’s why looking at statistics of Rauner winning counties and districts is pretty foolish. The union members who voted for Rauner down South because of Quinns betrayal are regretting the mistake and are going about paying for their error. (going after him)
- siriusly - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:27 am:
It’s the exact same thing Rauner is doing to Madigan. I see nothing wrong with that approach.
- Scamp640 - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:28 am:
Curse words might offend some middle class sensibilities. However, Let’s not beat around the bush. Rauner is engaging in full-on class warfare. The wealthy elite in this country have a history of using tactics far worse than curse words. Trying to undermine the foundation of the working class and middle class is far worse than using curse words. I don’t see how using curse words is such a bad thing when you are trying to save your future.
- Skeptic - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:28 am:
Come to think of it, that might be a good idea for a pro-Union ad.
(Scene is a diner)
Person 1: “Those Unions, they’re all greedy.”
Person 2: “‘Those Unions’ are the ones that fix our plumbing, wire our homes, care for Grandma. package our food, build our cares, give us entertainment, keep us safe and more. They’re fighting the maintain a decent standard of living for everyone. Without ‘those unions’ this country would…” etc.
- Suburbanon - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:30 am:
Under Further Review - the Scott Walker comparison is dead on. Rauner’s people want their Walker moment, but they just can’t find it. They are throwing issues out right and left hoping one will stick - like throwing spaghetti at a wall - but nothing is going the way they want. They’re frustrated and unfortunately, that means they will likely ratchet up the personal attacks because the substantive ones aren’t working.
You’d think a billionaire businessman would be a smarter negotiator.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:30 am:
===good idea for a pro-Union ad.===
With what money?
- A guy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:31 am:
=== Pot calling kettle - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:17 am:
One of the reasons they are so mad is that they feel like Rauner betrayed them. Many of them voted for Rauner, and now he has turned on them and they are really mad.===
I walked a lot of precincts in this past election. I keep hearing about all these folks who voted for Rauner. Sure coulda fooled me based on the clothing the opposition was wearing. But hey, if you say unions put Rauner over the top, I’m just gonna have to believe you. /s
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:32 am:
===But hey, if you say unions put Rauner over the top, I’m just gonna have to believe you===
Check the exit polling.
- Skeptic - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:32 am:
“With what money?” There you go bursting my bubble with reality.
- CharlieKratos - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:32 am:
These people are frustrated, angry, and afraid. They don’t know any other way of expressing themselves. It sucks and it’s just playing into Rauner’s hands.
- Suburbanon - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:33 am:
PS. The Democrats and unions should take a screen shot of Rauner’s smug smile at the end of his commercial and use that to create anti-billionaire messaging.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:33 am:
===Unfortunately the trade union folks can be undisciplined and frankly unruly.===
As opposed to (insert any group painted unfairly by zealots)…
Yikes.
- Tibicen - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:34 am:
It’s too bad that no one had access to a smart phone and made a video of this behavior. /s
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:35 am:
- A Guy -,
There’s plenty out there on Unions and Rauner’s percentage of their voters.
- Archiesmom - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:37 am:
I may not approve, but I do understand. I live down here. This area has been hammered, and union guys have had long dry spells without work. Things were finally starting to improve, and now major projects such as Iliana and the airport are tanking, and Rauner is openly attacking them. The rank and file are angry and scared. Like I said, I don’t approve, but I understand.
And I don’t see this in Rauner ads. You don’t want to show this - people will wonder why the white middle class is so angry. He won’t allow any deviation from his message.
- Georg Sande - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:37 am:
This is truly wonderful news and I am certain the Gov and his team are thrilled. #SeeWisconsinExamples
- Obamas Puppy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:37 am:
You know what is not helpful? Hypocrisy, demonizing and pitting one group of people against another - that is not “helpful”.
- Nick Name - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:38 am:
When your opponent has $50 million in slush funds and you don’t, the middle finger is mighty handy.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:38 am:
- Georg Sande -
How so? Please explain. Thanks.
- Formerly Known As... - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:40 am:
==These are white, suburban, middle class men. 30 years ago, they were Reagan Democrats==
These protesters are union members being attacked by Rauner, as they have been since the primaries more than a year ago. 30 years ago, Reagan broke the air traffic controllers union.
Respectfully, these individuals did not elect Rauner or reelect Reagan. They did everything they could to fight Rauner. If he sees ==white, suburban, middle class men== who are not union members protesting, then he would worry. But ==union members== are hardly Rauner’s ==base==, and this is what he wants.
- Wordslinger - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:42 am:
– Sure coulda fooled me based on the clothing the opposition was wearing.–
What in the world are you babbling about?
- Six Degrees of Separation - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:51 am:
Yeah, the South Suburbs are heavily Republican…
Anyone old enough to remember Congressman Ed Derwinski knows the former Republican nature of the south suburbs, straight out of William Whyte’s “The Organization Man” book of the late 1950’s. They don’t live in Flossmoor or Chicago Heights too much anymore, but Tinley, Mokena, Monee, Crete…
- Wordslinger - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:53 am:
FKA, you’re kidding yourself if you think white union members didn’t vote for Rauner or re-elect Reagan.
Not to get into the whole fictional revisionism of PATCO again, but they didn’t even have the support of the pilots, stewardess or ground crew unions when they went on tneir illegal wildcat strike.
Reagan had no intention of “busting” PATCO, who endorsed him, or any anti-union agenda when he took office. It’s Scott Walker fantasy.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:54 am:
The upcoming ads should be interesting. Paid for by Sam Zell - Isn’t that the same guy that ran the Tribune into bankruptcy at no real cost to him.
- A guy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:54 am:
Sling, don’t be inane. The T shirts and stickers the opposing folks were wearing were all union identifiers, especially in the primary where they were promoting Dillard. In north DuPage, it’s not so common to see the unions actively campaigning. This past time, they were out there in an obvious way, UAW, teachers, trades, #150.
If you attended the memorial of Judy, you would have heard the jokes from the dias about Bruce Rauner showing up at their hall.
For several days I’ve read about all these union cats who supported Rauner. I’m sure there were some, but not large numbers. Look how they treat you when you don’t agree with them…you think anyone wants to go through that?
Their tactics are old school and they repulse indies. Even the indies who might agree with them get turned off. Case in point; this entry up top. No one wants to be associated with thugs but other thugs. This was very thuggish behavior.
- Joe M - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:55 am:
I’m not defending their actions. But when someone like Rauner is threatening their jobs and financial security as they know it, tempers are going to flare. The union leaders need to come up with PR plans that have their members behaving in a better, more disciplined manner, if they want support from the general public.
- sal-says - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:55 am:
Yeah, but then again. Our so-called ‘governor’ has been denigrating, demonizing and on a mission to destroy all the good Unions have done over decades. He wanted & brought that reaction on himself, the great unifier.
- A guy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:56 am:
dais* sorry. (as to the jokes, I think Mr. Miller was one of those who relayed the irony of Rauner being in that location and how JBT did the impossible by getting him there)
- A guy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:58 am:
Joe M. Bingo. Don’t look like the mob. well said.
- dzipio - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:58 am:
Can those of you saying this was counterproductive and that they should have thought about their messaging really believe that? They are angry and afraid working class guys who want to tell this schmuck just what they think of him. When your emotions get going do you really think about messaging? I don’t think it hurts as much as you may believe. It shows that Rauner has some very high negatives with some people.
- Archiesmom - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:59 am:
There are Union member regrets for those who supported Rauner. This past weekend I saw a friend - former teacher - who had voted for Rauner, as did her husband - a current cop. They wanted change. Now they very much regret their votes. They aren’t the only ones, I’m sure.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 11:59 am:
===I’m sure there were some, but not large numbers.===
What do you nasd this assumption on? Is your exit polling different?
How about statistics? Use the search key…
- vole - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 12:00 pm:
AKA asymmetric warfare.
- Wordslinger - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 12:02 pm:
Guy, were the Rauner supporters you encountered wearing top hats, tails and monocles?
And those in opposition who were obviously union members due to their “clothing,” what were they wearing?
Carharrt? Harley tees?
Dude, you’re a laugh riot.
- Albany Park Patriot - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 12:03 pm:
Ain’t no victimhood like Republican victimhood. They spend a lot of money trying to generate these images-I hope the union folks are smarter than playing into their hands, no matter how hard it is.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 12:05 pm:
I’ll help you, - A Guy -;
AP
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/nov/7/rauner-appealed-to-independents-some-democrats/?page=all
===Exit polling conducted for The Associated Press and TV stations also showed that despite organized labor being Gov. Pat Quinn’s largest source of campaign funds, the Chicago Democrat wasn’t able to capitalize on the union vote as much as he might have wanted. He fell short of hopes in his hometown as well.
…
UNION VOTE
Organized labor spent millions on ads attacking Rauner and in donations to Quinn. But on Election Day, many union members and their families still cast their ballots for Rauner.
Thirty-two percent of voters were from union households. Quinn got 58 percent of their votes, compared with 41 percent for Rauner.===
Hmm. Thoughts - A Guy -?
- x ace - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 12:08 pm:
” Unruly ” is mild - Historically , wage, hour and working condition issues generated outright violence by both Labor and Mgmt. Fighting Words generate Fights.
- walker - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 12:09 pm:
Scott Walker’s recent foreign policy statement: I beat 100,000 union members, I can defeat ISIS.
Never underestimate the power of being anti-union in some political circles.
- Mokenavince - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 12:10 pm:
Not a good way to win friends and influence people.
- VanillaMan - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 12:10 pm:
When you victimize the victimizer, he will finds support among the ignorant.
Bruce Rauner just spent about $100,000,000 to become a household name. He just spent a million to run ads this week. The worst thing in the world to someone like Bruce Rauner is to be IGNORED and IRRELEVENT.
Give him what he hates.
- Formerly Known As... - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 12:12 pm:
Wordslinger, maybe that comment should have been more specific.
PATCO members obviously did not vote to reelect Reagan after he broke their union in 1981. Would you vote for the man who broke your union and replaced you in your job while on strike?
As for Rauner, some white union members voted for Rauner. But not the ones who are showing up on a weekday at local RTW hearings or to protest his appearances. Those union members are more likely the politically aware ones who raised alarm over his anti-union message over one year ago or were crossing over in the primary to vote for Dillard over Rauner.
- foster brooks - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 12:23 pm:
RE:rauner wanting to be scott walker….nobody would know who scott walker was if he had a Democrat general Assembly
- northsider - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 12:23 pm:
Better to turn their backs on him. It’s a shaming gesture, and it’s polite enough that non-union sympathizers could join in.
- Carhartt Representative - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 12:23 pm:
So what were we saying a few days ago on Capitol Fax when Rauner’s supporter was reflecting poorly on him?
- Because I said so... - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 12:30 pm:
It was really impressive to see hundreds of union members standing in the pouring rain for well over an hour waiting for Rauner who entered through the back door. There were even disabled adults and children out in the rain protesting.
Really ironic to listen to Rauner talk about helping the middle class while the middle class was right outside the room loudly protesting.
The Governor is attacking their livelihood. You can’t blame a few for not keeping their cool.
- nixit71 - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 12:31 pm:
In reviewing the protest pictures, I see something else the unions seem to be against…diversity.
2 females (one pictured multiple times), 2 African American males, and a whole lotta white guys.
- Mouthy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 12:38 pm:
I’d urge the union folks to give the Governor all the legal grief you can and make every public appearance a suspenseful and unpleasant adventure. Yes, get after him 24/7. After all he’s coming for you..
- Gus - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 12:39 pm:
Rauner expects union goons to act like union goons. And they are.
Outside of teachers, steel workers, and state employees, unions have about a 5% approval rating. They’re fighting a losing battle here.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 12:43 pm:
===Outside of teachers, steel workers, and state employees, unions have about a 5% approval rating. They’re fighting a losing battle here.===
Ok, that maybe true (5%?) do you have a poll indicating that?
Further, nearly 1/3 (32%) of voters in 2014 were considered in Union households…
Dismissing about a 1/3 of those actually voting; do that at your own risk.
- foster brooks - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 12:45 pm:
Give him the finger or throw a stack of papers up in the air like mike bost
- ash - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 1:13 pm:
Shows what a wonderful boss he really is. As head of the executive branch, these are his employees. Treat them better and this would not happen. Unfortunately, look at his track record of treating those under him in the private sector as a corporate raider…
- Formerly Known As... - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 1:15 pm:
==You can’t blame a few for not keeping their cool.==
You can’t. Rauner is attacking them, but if union leaders explain he wants this sort of behavior then it should stop. They won’t give him his Scott Walker moment.
- Challengerrt - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 1:24 pm:
I doubt that the union workers that were protesting in that manner were the state employees that work under the Governor, AFSCME, SEIU, etc. They were probably from the all the other unions. Say what you want about the unions, but they do stick together and they were not given thousands of dollars to do it!
- Demoralized - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 1:37 pm:
Maybe they were just saying he was #1.
- forwhatitsworth - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 1:45 pm:
=== Yeah, but nobody really liked Quinn.===
49% of the people voting in the last election preferred Quinn over Rauner!
- AnonymousOne - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 1:57 pm:
When you have money and power you don’t need swear words to get what you want. Smiling nicely while twisting the knife might look classier but is it?
- Wordslinger - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 1:59 pm:
X Ace makes a good point. Labor/management, labor/capital disputes in Illinois history have been known to go the full nine yards.
You had steelworkers and tneir families shot in the back by cops at a Memorial Day picnic on the South Side of Chicago. And they still haven’t found all the bodies of some of the strikebreakers at the coal mines in Little Egypt.
You’re talking about how folks put bread on the table. That’s combustible stuff.
- RNUG - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 2:07 pm:
== 49% of the people voting in the last election preferred Quinn over Rauner! ==
I was one of the 49%. Doesn’t mean I liked him, just that he was the best of two bad choices.
- GUNR - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 2:09 pm:
How does it feel to be wrong RNUG?
- Joe Hill - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 2:09 pm:
Rauner cannot lose on this. Unions are a racket to support the leadership. The struggling person cannot relate anymore to the BA’s stuffing their faces at Il Vincinato while the rank and file can’t feed their families.
- RNUG - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 2:11 pm:
== Labor/management, labor/capital disputes in Illinois history have been known to go the full nine yards. ==
Yep. Let’s not forget the southern Illinois coal mines wars. Not only fights between management and labor but between Progressive and United.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 2:12 pm:
Yellow Dog Democrat you hit a grand-slam with that summation. I live in an area mixed with blue collar and white collar workers. This weekend while at a neighborhood event I could not believe the private industry union workers ripping the Gov. These are the same guys who have been voting Repub for the past 20 years and loudly boasting about it. Should be a fascinating summer.
- Anon - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 2:14 pm:
Evidently these folks never read Alinksy…
- RNUG - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 2:15 pm:
== How does it feel to be wrong RNUG? ==
I wasn’t wrong. Remember, I’ve been calling Rauner the GOP Blago from early on in the campaign; think I started after hearing him speak multiple times and hearing three different, and spun, speeches.
Unfortunately, others didn’t see through him before the election. I thought Rauner would be a disaster for the State … and it’s turning out that way. All of us are along for the ride on this 4 year slow motion trian wreck.
- olddog - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 2:16 pm:
GUNR 2:09 pm === How does it feel to be wrong RNUG? ===
I can’t speak for anybody else, but poor old Pat Quinn’s beginning to look pretty good by comparison.
- A guy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 2:20 pm:
And yes Sling, Union members wear their T-Shirts or coats or stickers/pins identifying them as union members. Is that really a shock to you?
Sometimes the decals on the vehicles give it away a bit too. Being purposely goofy is unbecoming.
- Skeptic - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 2:21 pm:
GUNR 2:09 pm === How does it feel to be wrong RNUG? ===
I didn’t like Quinn, but he didn’t scare me like Rauner did/does.
- Skeptic - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 2:23 pm:
A Guy: Ok, here’s a challenge for you then, come down to Springfield and stand on the Capitol complex, then tell me exactly which people are union and which aren’t. Sheesh, talk about sweeping generalities.
- Union Protester - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 2:27 pm:
Maybe I missed it, but I didn’t see any middle fingers pressed anywhere. Makes an interesting story to say that it happened.
- Old Timer - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 2:30 pm:
How pathetic
- See the forest - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 2:34 pm:
Wait until the pitchforks are raised and the tumbrils start rolling.
Change begins from the bottom up.
- Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 2:40 pm:
As OW says he doesn’t feel sorry for unions for not stopping Rauner, I feel the same in a way for union members who voted for Rauner and Scott Walker and are now upset because of right to work in Wisconsin and the attacks in Illinois.
Unions have had various successes lately: great showings at local government hearings, beating back right to work, the ISC pension victory and member unity events. Part of me says they should not sabotage their successes with actions such as those in this story.
The other part of me says that the governor and his billionare supporters, and others like them, have been trying to eradicate unions all over America, so being cursed at and flipped off are pretty minor by comparison. A war is being waged against unions by the super-rich, so what’s worse, some bad words/gestures or widespread and severe economic damage?
Speaking of this, an article is out today about a new front opened up by state government Republicans and the likes of Americans for Prosperity against unions: trying to get rid prevailing wage laws.
So again, in these anti-union contexts, swear words and gestures are relatively inoffensive to me.
I do think this unions do need to stay positive, so I’d much rather see them engage in positive activities, such as educating the public as to their value, and following the peaceful leads of great leaders like Martin Luther King, Jr.
This is my position: stay positive and peaceful.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 2:41 pm:
- GUNR - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 2:09 pm:
How does it feel to be wrong RNUG?
You are one small man who is not worthy to post on the same blog as RNUG.
I am always greatful for RUNG’s comments.
- Wordslinger - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 2:51 pm:
– Were they wearing printed t-shirts and signs? That’s a sure example of spontaneity.–
I’m struggling mightily to discern a point here.
Is “spontaneity” some sort of sign of virtue or sincerity? They’re organized. So what?
And you’d be amazed at the high-tech t-shirt and sign printing processes that have emerged since the 1940s. It truly is a world of wonders.
- OneMan - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 3:01 pm:
It plays to his narrative…
The thing is, outside of folks who work in government and folks you know via politics how many union members to you know?
I suspect some of you know union members, to be honest I don’t think I do outside of some teachers and other government workers.
It is obvious the attitude of people about unions has changed, you may not like that but it is the truth. Hell, Michigan is a right to work state and they failed to recall Walker.
Blaming rich guys, isn’t going to change that. You need to convince people that unions they don’t belong to add value to their lives. Until that happens union members flipping off the governor play right into the idea that unions look out for their members only.
- VanillaMan - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 3:11 pm:
It plays to his narrative…
The one he is spending a million dollars on television trying to project? The ads he had a staff write up, edit, review, send to video production, edit, review and then copy and distribute to specific television stations?
Talk about lacking spontaneity!
- Demoralized - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 3:11 pm:
== the idea that unions look out for their members only==
Isn’t that sort of what they are supposed to do?
- A guy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 3:12 pm:
==- Skeptic - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 2:23 pm:
A Guy: Ok, here’s a challenge for you then, come down to Springfield and stand on the Capitol complex, then tell me exactly which people are union and which aren’t. Sheesh, talk about sweeping generalities.===
I’ll meet you at lunch time when there’s a planned rally. I’ll point them out to you.
I’m talking about people canvassing, which they have every right to do. If you’re in the Sierra Club, you wear their stuff, UAW, same, IEA, same. They’re not trying to hide.
I just keep hearing about all the union support for Rauner here. I’m saying, I just didn’t see it. Exit polling says it occurred (union families- whatever the heck you need to qualify to be in that group)
I’d say those folks are not identifying themselves as union folks first. OR, they are in conflict with their union. If that’s the case, I suspect they still are.
But I’ve read here that Rauner has been the great uniter for union folks and they’re stronger than ever.
I suspect the truth lies in there somewhere. They don’t like each other very much, that’s for sure.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 3:12 pm:
- OneMan -,
My SD308 friend. Much respect.
The exit polling in November 2014 had 32% of those voting claim they are from Union households.
About 1 in 3. One in three voters. That’s pretty significant, arguably, and Rauner getting 41% of that 1 in 3 in a subgroup Quinn possibly should run up totals in, it was impactful.
How the Unions go about educating their members or controlling the voters’ bloc in the State House and State Senate races gets very intense.
Thanks - GOM -, yes, I have zero sympathy for the Unions. They had their chances, and these are the consequences.
How the union workers decide to react and be impactful will decide how important they will be in all these races. Acting as described in this Post is not helping.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 3:17 pm:
===I’d say those folks are not identifying themselves as union folks first. OR, they are in conflict with their union. If that’s the case, I suspect they still are.===
Whaaa?
They were asked if they lived in a union household. Yes or no.
Look, spinning yourself to ignore what others see in statistics, that don’t meet your imaginary world, isn’t our fault.
C’mon, at least try to be intellectually honest.
- A guy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 3:19 pm:
===The exit polling in November 2014 had 32% of those voting claim they are from Union households.===
Asking people on the way out of the polls who/what they voted for. Foolproof. Especially after an over-polled season like last one.
Union Households= someone in the household is/was in a union.
If what you’re peddlin’ here is true, the unions have much, much greater problems internally than they have with Rauner. If he’s resonating with them at a 1 in 3 clip, these are not happy campers.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 3:22 pm:
===If what you’re peddlin’ here is true, the unions have much, much greater problems internally than they have with Rauner.===
They voted against their better selves, now they feel the cinsequences.
===If he’s resonating with them at a 1 in 3 clip, these are not happy campers.===
How did all that RTW go in the towns, townships, cities, and counties?
- OneMan - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 3:26 pm:
==Talk about lacking spontaneity!==
An effective narrative is rarely spontaneous, it is built out over time.
== == the idea that unions look out for their members only==
Isn’t that sort of what they are supposed to do? ====
Yep, totally. The thing is you can do that and make others think it is in their best interest as well. Because when it comes down to it, most people think, in general, what is best for them.
Do I think the teachers union is about making it so my kids have the best teachers or is it about protecting the couple of teachers they have had over the years who should be in a different line of work.
If more people saw unions as a positive for them, more of them would be in unions and the “risks” of right to work, even if it was in place would be reduced.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 3:37 pm:
===If he’s resonating with them at a 1 in 3 clip, these are not happy campers.===
Actually, Rauner was “resonating” with 2 in every 5 (41%) of one in every three (32%) of those claiming to be from Union households.
Please keep up.
- RNUG - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 3:40 pm:
== I suspect some of you know union members ==
We know lots of union members but many people may not realize it. The guy at church who maintains the church’s HVAC systems in his spare time - steamfitters. Neighbor who’s an electrician - IBEW. Family - iron worker.
And this doesn’t include government workers you may know, like your kid’s teachers or the cop down the block.
- Wordslinger - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 3:44 pm:
Guy, exit polls may not be foolproof, but I suspect they have a wee bit more validity than walking around your block, drawing conclusions on how people are dressed and then applying that “knowledge” on a statewide basis.
Dude, you’re killing today!
- RNUG - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 3:45 pm:
== If what you’re peddlin’ here is true, the unions have much, much greater problems internally than they have with Rauner. ==
Not necessarily. Central / southern Illinois there were quite a few union-friendly GOP. We even have fiscally conservative Dems. Both groups got fooled by Rauner when he went dark about unions in the general.
- Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 4:06 pm:
“Both groups got fooled by Rauner when he went dark about unions in the general.”
That’s how governors like Rauner, Walker and Snyder operate. Go dark in general election campaigns, say it’s not a priority, then when the moment is right, pass RTW.
- A guy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 4:38 pm:
===but I suspect they have a wee bit more validity than walking around your block, drawing conclusions on how people are dressed and then applying that “knowledge” on a statewide basis.===
Gee Sling, the App we were using was a wee bit more sophisticated than that and my mom permitted me to go beyond my block this time. The App had statewide results tabulated, not just the few thousand crumby interviews I did on porches.
Willy, if one of my children is a teacher, am I a Union household? I’ll wait.
- A guy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 4:41 pm:
=== then when the moment is right, pass RTW.===
I keep missing stuff. When did it pass here?
RNUG, I know you to be a decent chap. How many of those folks are in the union by strong choice down yonder? The state pushed that process with many state employees.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 4:43 pm:
===Willy, if one of my children is a teacher, am I a Union household? I’ll wait.===
Your daughter live with you?
Did she vote for Rauner?
- W.S. Wolcott - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 4:45 pm:
The motto for the near future should be, “Be Seen in Green, and don’t say anything Mean.” Consider yourself advised, and be guided accordingly.
- Levois - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 4:49 pm:
So helpful it makes great copy for newspapers and the opposition. Makes the unions look so angry they’re out of control.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 4:52 pm:
===How many of those folks are in the union by strong choice down yonder? The state pushed that process with many state employees.===
More employees are leaving “fair share” and joining the Unions since Rauner took the oath.
You have to be a gag or just intellectually dishonest here?
You don’t know, now, what constitutes a “household”, and we’ve all discussed Union membership growing in state agencies.
- RNUG - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 4:55 pm:
== How many of those folks are in the union by strong choice down yonder? ==
All the ones I mentioned live in Springfield / Sangamon County and do NOT work for the State / Country / City, unless you want to count the teachers and police, which I specifically noted worked for government.
It would have been way too easy to list all my friends who are AFSCME / SURS / TRS members … so I didn’t include them.
I also used to live in a coal mining town; almost that entire town was union, except for the guy who owned the beer distributorship.
As I have noted before, I grew up with one side of the family being blue collar union members and the other side being small business / shopkeepers … which probably gives me a bit better perspective about both sides than a lot of people have.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 5:06 pm:
Thanks Anon 2:12 and all the rest.
My dad was one of these guys when he was still alive. When you come after a guy’s paycheck, the way Bruce Rauner is, you are coming after his wife, his kids, his house, his dreams.
So yeah, you are gonna get the bird and a lot of angry words.
And frankly, since Rauner doesn’t read newspapers, mainly goes out to meet with business groups or in otherwise controlled events, I think he has become isolated from the people he thinks he is fighting for.
If he had been at all of those townhall meetings on his RTW proposal, we would have passed a budget by now.
And as far as playing into his hands: an SEIU protest, and AFSCME protest, a confrontation with the Chicago Teachers Union would be playing into his hands.
But white suburban men? Sprinklerfitters may not all go to mass every Sunday, but they coach little league, they attend high school football games, they own homes, mow their lawn and pay their taxes, although they complain about them.
These guys are Joe the Plumber.
- Mama - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 5:37 pm:
I would be willing to bet it was the union construction workers and prison guards whom did the honors of harassing the gov., and not the state workers.
- Bulldog58 - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 6:02 pm:
“I would be willing to bet it was the union construction workers and prison guards whom did the honors of harassing the gov., and not the state workers.”
Prison guards ARE state workers and the majority of the protesters at this event were skilled union tradesmen, not public sector employees.
Nice generalization of your bogeyman, uncouth union thugs.
- Kelly Speaks - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 6:07 pm:
Rauner talks about going to Wisconsin, Indiana and Texas - all at the expense of the tax payer - to get jobs back. It doesn’t work that way.
Companies do not just pack up and move because you reform a law. Companies take years to plan a budget. They look at everything before making the decision. Then they can spend a year or longer looking for a destination. Then a year or two longer to get the destination up to snuff. By this time Rauner is out of job and these jobs still have not moved to Illinois.
People cannot continue to remain uninformed. You cannot just rely on what someone says.
Amazon is pulling out of Arizona and Kansas, both “right to work” states because they have bad transportation operations. They want to move to better transportation options.
IBM has let go half of its force in Iowa after 6 years of moving there because they are unskilled. The employees never bothered to get the skills to grow with the technology. Now IBM wants to hire 5700 HB-1 Visa workers, mainly from student visa workers - all who will work for less wages but higher skill level. Iowa is a right to work state and don’t think for one minute that a company won’t do that to each of us. Matter of fact, a right to work state, they could let you go even if you have all the skills, for someone who will accept less.
I am not a union employee and never have been. But I do understand what the unions do present for those of us, who aren’t. They make things better. Do I agree with everything they do? No. Am I naive to think that the top honchos are just regular joes? NO. I am old enough to have lived through and know exactly who Jimmy Hoffa is and NO I do not know where he is buried.
Yes I do believe that at times they get greedy, when it is best to pass, like the soon to be fight with CPS and Chicago Teachers. But that is more of a personality issue than a monetary one.
- RNUG - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 6:16 pm:
-YDD-, I understand exactly what you are saying. I have both iron workers and coal miners in various branches of the family tree. Those guys didn’t take kindly to anyone who threatened their livelihood.
- bullet - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 6:25 pm:
144 comments and not one idea or answer to the problems this state is facing…just air
- Kelly Speaks - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 6:31 pm:
==- OneMan - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 3:01 pm:
It plays to his narrative…
The thing is, outside of folks who work in government and folks you know via politics how many union members to you know?
I suspect some of you know union members, to be honest I don’t think I do outside of some teachers and other government workers.
It is obvious the attitude of people about unions has changed, you may not like that but it is the truth. Hell, Michigan is a right to work state and they failed to recall Walker.
Blaming rich guys, isn’t going to change that. You need to convince people that unions they don’t belong to add value to their lives. Until that happens union members flipping off the governor play right into the idea that unions look out for their members only.==
One Man, I think you are playing the 10 card when you are holding the Ace. You know more union workers than you want to let onto. Your local fire, police, municipal, postal, grocery clerk, teacher, electrician, plumber, virtually every aspect of some type of construction has union workers.
As for Michigan not recalling Walker, it would have been feat if they had. Now Wisconsin on the other hand barely lost the recall Walker election. Sometimes people read a win as an overwhelming win when it is just a few votes difference.
Oh I live in the South Suburban Mayor conference area and the issue never even made it to the news. I first heard and read about his appearance here.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 6:31 pm:
- bullet -,
Try “Governor’s Office, 207 State House, Springfield”
Report back some good news. Thanks.
- RNUG - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 6:36 pm:
== 144 comments and not one idea or answer to the problems this state is facing…just air ==
Simple math - even after either Rauner’s or the GA’s cuts, the state needs revenue.
Want ideas of how to get said revenue? Use Google; there have been plenty of ideas discussed here the past years by people who know what they are talking about, including a former budget director.
Rauner wants his turnaround agenda - several of his issues have had deals on the table but without the anti-union poison pills. Again, use Google. It’s been discussed here. He didn’t work it; he didn’t have his floor leaders ask for amendments; he didn’t even introduce his bills in a timely fashion or at all. Just means Rauner doesn’t want reform or improvement; means he just wants to destroy unions.
You can’t try to get your agenda passed if you won’t even participate in the legislative process.
- Kelly Speaks - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 6:36 pm:
==- bullet - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 6:25 pm:
144 comments and not one idea or answer to the problems this state is facing…just air==
What real issues are we facing? Under funded pension plan that was caused to due under funded payments for decades that have now come to balloon payments. Something that cannot be reformed because of our state constitution.
So what has Rauner planned to fix the issue? Cut spending unless we change laws to fit his desires, which is lower everything and bust unions. That still won’t change the compensation laws in our constitution.
Rauner got elected under the pretense of “freezing” property taxes. I spoke out for 2 years about this. Very few people listened. NO one is going to get property taxes frozen because the only property taxes that our legislators can freeze are state property taxes, and we don’t have state property taxes.
But people relied on just what was said and never bothered to research. Now this is what we are stuck with and people still just want to rely on what is said.
- Kelly Speaks - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 6:39 pm:
- RNUG -
He didn’t work it; he didn’t have his floor leaders ask for amendments; he didn’t even introduce his bills in a timely fashion or at all. ==
Exactly. He had Radogno rewrite some bills that had already been on the table and read three times, thus to bypass committees and put to a vote 2 weeks ago.
- jknell - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 7:20 pm:
During the Capitol protests in Wisconsin in 2011 when Fox News couldn’t find thuggy looking union guys in a heated argument, they just used footage from some place with palm trees. Inflatable palm trees became common at the protests.
I think it’s also important to understand that unions don’t get to pick who is in their bargaining unit. This is not to say some unions couldn’t do a better job developing their membership.
Also, exit polls have big problems. Union hating right-wingers have every reason to say they are from a union household and voted for Rauner / Walker.
All that said, I think Oswego Willy is correct. Rauner wants heated conflict like in Wisconsin. As long as the Dems hold the legislature, it’s not like Wisconsin was in 2011.
One local news station in Chicago played the ad in their coverage followed by the same ad at the break. A good counter ad with a much small run would probably pick up a lot of free media.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 7:59 pm:
“- bullet - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 6:25 pm:
144 comments and not one idea or answer to the problems this state is facing…just air”
Rauner, we are not talking about sully ruins in this stream. We are talking about you being booed by your paid anti-Union thugs pretending to be union guys. We have talked about solutions in many other streams.
I am happy that you are reading this blog, maybe you will learn something and grow out of your shell.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Jun 16, 15 @ 8:02 pm:
Sully ruins should be solutions.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Jun 17, 15 @ 9:35 am:
When does an outsider become an insider?