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This just in…

Thursday, Jul 9, 2015

* I’m told by the attorney general’s office that a St. Clair County judge just issued a verbal order authorizing the comptroller to begin processing employee payroll.

So, now we have two possibly conflicting judicial orders [ADDING: I’m not sure if they actually conflict because of how the appellate court ruled today, but I’m checking] and a bill that the governor is apparently vowing to veto.

Loving that clarity.

…Adding… The attorney general’s office says it will appeal.

…Adding More… Because the appellate court this morning declined to rule on paying state workers their full pay, the comptroller’s office believes it has to follow the St. Clair County judge’s ruling and will being processing payroll.

…Adding Still More… Despite the fact that unions filed the suit based on their collective bargaining contracts, the judge applied his ruling to all state employees, according to the comptroller’s office.

Quite the overreach.

The way I’m hearing it, the judge issued the verbal TRO and then the comptroller’s office jumped up and said it had no way of figuring out who was union and who wasn’t. So the judge said the union members have to be paid, and if you can’t figure it out, then pay everyone.

- Posted by Rich Miller        

165 Comments
  1. - Centennial - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:08 pm:

    Just when I thought it couldn’t get any worse…


  2. - Stu - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:10 pm:

    Pick your venue carefully and get the ruling you want?


  3. - Captain Illini - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:12 pm:

    Apparently Monty Hall will be exhumed to stand guard on door number 3, still unopened…


  4. - Grimm - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:12 pm:

    At this point, I’m about to shut my eyes and shout “Beetlejuice” three times…


  5. - Jorge - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:12 pm:

    Dios mio!


  6. - Norseman - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:13 pm:

    Ok, now we get to see how the supremes deal with the issue.


  7. - CharlieKratos - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:14 pm:

    Curiouser and curiouser. This is a deep rabbit hole, indeed.


  8. - Wensicia - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:15 pm:

    The timing really (banned word?). Rauner’s not going to look at anything from the GA concerning state worker pay now he thinks the court is on his side.


  9. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:15 pm:

    - RNUG -

    Two for two.

    Rauner will be costing Illinois more and more money in court…

    Ugh.


  10. - AC - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:16 pm:

    The state better be careful or they’ll end up violating a court order.


  11. - Charlie - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:16 pm:

    I hope it was Judge Kolker! He’s our hero!


  12. - downstate - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:16 pm:

    Forum shopping–it’s kinda like redistricting but for lawyers. The Great Karnak sees that this issue will be taken up by the IL Supreme Court in the not too distant future.


  13. - @crossroads - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:17 pm:

    Verbal!?! It must be in writing otherwise it’s meaningless.


  14. - Shark Sandwich - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:18 pm:

    Most states can’t say this about their budget process, but WE can! We have THREE branches of government, and we USE THEM ALL! Other states taxpayers just pay for a judicial branch to sit around for THEIR budgets!!


  15. - spanke - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:18 pm:

    The State won’t have to pay to Monty Hall exhumed his is still alive. WE can pay a state worker with the savings.


  16. - Macbeth - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:18 pm:

    At least Rauner is making the state attractive to lawyers. Too bad there’s not an intern program for all this.


  17. - Mama - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:19 pm:

    Did both judges rule on the same thing?


  18. - downstate - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:21 pm:

    Apologies, it’s Carnac the Magnificent


  19. - And I Approved This Message - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:21 pm:

    Rich - Just save yourself sometime and use the headline of the previous post,”Meanwhile, In Opposite Land,” for all future posts till we get a new governor.


  20. - Johnny Q. Suburban - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:21 pm:

    As the wide received Terrell Owens once said, “Getcha popcorn ready.”


  21. - Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:22 pm:

    You’d think the St. Clair judge would defer to the Order issued in the previously-filed case by the First District Appellate Court. I’ll be interested to read about the St. Clair judge’s background.


  22. - Formerly Known As... - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:22 pm:

    ==Pick your venue carefully and get the ruling you want?==

    Had the AG filed in Sangamon County instead of Cook County, this may have been 2-0 in favor of paying employees instead of a split.


  23. - Wordslinger - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:22 pm:

    This is going great…..


  24. - Sour Kraut - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:24 pm:

    Something something about #2 and a fan……


  25. - 4 percent - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:25 pm:

    Republicans and the Civil Justice League may have to revise the “judicial hellhole” designation now!


  26. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:28 pm:

    All of this… is easier… then actual governing?

    Umm….


  27. - Sickofit - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:29 pm:

    Coming soon to state employees mailbox– Another email from the governor


  28. - Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:31 pm:

    ==You’d think the St. Clair judge would defer to the Order issued in the previously-filed case by the First District Appellate Court. I’ll be interested to read about the St. Clair judge’s background.==

    The First District punted this specific question and this judge disagreed with that outcome, so why would he defer?


  29. - Macbeth - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:32 pm:

    Either pay or shut down the state.

    But don’t ask employees to work if there’s no chance of pay.

    This ruling is good.

    If legislators take pay when state employees can’t — that’s a big problem. We’re watching.


  30. - Macbeth - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:33 pm:

    BTW — no budget until Thanksgiving.

    Rauner will budget (and spam) via EO and court order.

    Watch.


  31. - The Unknown Poster - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:33 pm:

    I love it when a plan comes together.


  32. - Norseman - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:33 pm:

    Looking for Illinois lawyers to correct or verify, but it’s my understanding that the circuit court is not bound by rulings in another appellate district. If the appellate court in its own district had ruled, then that would be different.


  33. - non-partisan - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:33 pm:

    Lisa Madigan to appeal the decision to pay Illinois employees. Conflict of interest?


  34. - AC - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:34 pm:

    If Rauner has another up day like this, he will replace Charles Mound as the highest point in the state.

    Let’s test more legal theories. It’s been 180 years since the Toledo war, which means it’s time to mobilize the guard and take Evansville, Indiana.


  35. - Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:36 pm:

    ==Looking for Illinois lawyers to correct or verify, but it’s my understanding that the circuit court is not bound by rulings in another appellate district.==

    Generally correct


  36. - Tom Joad - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:36 pm:

    I would’t rely on a decision by the comptroller. She is all over the place on what to do.


  37. - Mama - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:36 pm:

    What happens now?


  38. - Purple Bear - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:37 pm:

    Macbeth: It’s not true that there’s “no chance of pay.” It’s just that your paycheck will be delayed. In fact, your paycheck is already delayed under the ordinary course of things: You work June 1st and don’t get paid on June 1st for that day’s work. Then you work on June 2nd and don’t get paid on the 2nd for that day’s work. You have to wait two weeks to get paid.


  39. - Menard Guy - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:37 pm:

    I believe Cook and St. Clair are two different issues. Cook county was an argument that CMS cannot determine who is covered under the federal labor law re: minimum wage, therefore they wanted to pay everyone. The judge said no. I believe St. Clair is a union issue, that wages are negotiated, therefore they must be paid. The sad thing is, all of this is a NON issue. Payroll has to be met at some point, and the money is sitting there. Why in the world is Lisa Madigan appealing this decision?? Why don’t both sides do what the judge says, make it a non issue, and get back to the budget fight!!


  40. - Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:38 pm:

    ==
    What happens now?==

    I would say that Unless appellate courts act rather quickly and overrule, employees should get paychecks this month


  41. - Honeybear - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:38 pm:

    Okay, I am so sorry. I lost track of the flip flops of this day. What side are we tilted towards now? Paid or not Paid?


  42. - Wordslinger - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:39 pm:

    Verbal order? Man, they knew where to shop, lol.


  43. - Menard Guy - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:41 pm:

    It is a verbal order that will be followed up with a written order. Nothing mysterious about it.


  44. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:41 pm:

    ===Man, they knew where to shop, lol. ===

    Haven’t confirmed, but hear he’s up for retention next year.


  45. - Ducky LaMoore - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:42 pm:

    Who needs a budget when you’ve got the right judge?!


  46. - thunderspirit - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:42 pm:

    === The way I’m hearing it, the judge issued the verbal TRO and then the comptroller’s office jumped up and said it had no way of figuring out who was union and who wasn’t. So the judge said the union members have to be paid, and if you can’t figure it out, then pay everyone. ===

    Saying that makes even less sense than Central Management Services saying that they can’t figure out who is FLSA in a timely fashion. I’m positive that Comptroller Munger’s office isn’t on the same 1970s DOS-based system (yes, you read that correctly) that CMS is on.


  47. - Michael Westen - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:43 pm:

    How could the Comptroller’s office not know who is in a union? Aren’t union dues deducted from union members paychecks? That would seem to be a good place to start.


  48. - Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:43 pm:

    ==Why in the world is Lisa Madigan appealing this decision?==

    Exactly. I thought her whole thinking was that “she was told not to come back” to court, and knew this couldn’t be ruled again. It was. But she seems to want to push the issue when she now has a clear choice to let it lye


  49. - dawn - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:44 pm:

    Still doesn’t help the GA. They still took a bad vote for Rauner either way (i hope everyone gets paid, btw).


  50. - anon - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:44 pm:

    God bless Judge Lechien, and Co-counsel CJ Baricevic who is running against Mike Bost!


  51. - Roamin' Numeral - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:45 pm:

    “We can always use a good judge.” - Michael Corleone


  52. - Menard Guy - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:45 pm:

    Michael, you give way too much credit to the state computer systems. Ha! But for the SOS systems, which are top-notch because of all the personal info, the others are complete junk. And yes, I think you will still find DOS based systems out there.


  53. - Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:45 pm:

    I think the Cook judge addressed the contract issues.

    I haven’t seen the union and Comptroller’s appeal papers, but if the appellate court had wanted to issue a restraining order, it would have found a way.


  54. - AC - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:48 pm:

    ==she now has a clear choice to let it lye==

    That’s basic


  55. - Southern Illinois Hoopdee - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:53 pm:

    Menard Guy, what OS are the SOS systems based on?

    DOS systems though? Yikes.


  56. - Amuzing Myself - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:54 pm:

    So much for the cushy Comptroller appointment…


  57. - State Engineer - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:55 pm:

    Great so checks go out then the Supremes decide that nope and we are back to square one. Yippy skippy.


  58. - burbanite - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:55 pm:

    I don’t think the AG has a choice but to appeal it, b/c it sounds like it is an unconstitutional ruling. It will get to the Supremes at some point.


  59. - Motambe - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:57 pm:

    Illinois may rank near the bottom in some categories, but our budget-making process has to be the most entertaining! #1 in Constitutional Crisis Theater!


  60. - Been There - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 4:57 pm:

    How can having a contract trump the constitution? Heck, why does the GA bother going through the whole appropriation process every year if all the state has to do is contract everything out? And don’t all those human service agencies have a contract with the state? I’m not a lawyer but this ruling seems strange (besides where is comes out of).


  61. - Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:00 pm:

    some state agencies pay their employees in advance. Ex. Attorney General office.


  62. - Frank from Chicago - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:00 pm:

    No, appellate court decisions are binding on every court in the state, regardless of appellate district.

    From the Illinois Supreme Court in Delgado v. Board of Election Commissioners, 224 Ill. 2d 481, 487-88 (2007):

    We recognize that it is “fundamental in Illinois that the decisions of an appellate court are binding on all circuit courts regardless of locale.”   People v. Harris, 123 Ill.2d 113, 128, 122 Ill.Dec. 76, 526 N.E.2d 335 (1988).   The notion that circuit courts are bound only by the appellate court decisions from their own district is a relic of the pre-1964 Illinois Constitution of 1870 and has been expressly disavowed by our court.   See People v. Layhew, 139 Ill.2d 476, 489, 151 Ill.Dec. 570, 564 N.E.2d 1232 (1990).   Until this court says otherwise, an appellate court’s decision must therefore be followed regardless of the appellate court’s district.   See People v. Harris, 123 Ill.2d at 129, 122 Ill.Dec. 76, 526 N.E.2d 335. -


  63. - Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:01 pm:

    You get paid, you get paid, everybody gets paid!


  64. - State worker - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:03 pm:

    I LOLed at several comments here. Thank you.

    Especially Rich’s “Loving that clarity.”


  65. - TROOPER - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:05 pm:

    My Father used to say “Son, you work harder trying to get out of work, than it would take to get the work done”

    Governor, you have wasted more time and resources since you were elected than it would take to simply do the job.

    How many items does your administration have in court so far?????


  66. - Norseman - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:07 pm:

    I guess I qualify for relic status. Thank you Frank from Chicago.


  67. - Macbeth - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:11 pm:

    No budget.

    Governing by EO and court order. This has been Rauner’s plan all along.


  68. - Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:13 pm:

    ==I don’t think the AG has a choice but to appeal it==

    She absolutely has that choice


  69. - Union Man - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:14 pm:

    As I recall Edgar ran a surplus and had a rainy day fund and Republican Gov Ryan spent WAY more than he should haveand started this path


  70. - redeft - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:14 pm:

    Norseman–actually the Illinois Appellate Court is different from the federal Circuit Courts of Appeals. There is only one appellate court in Illinois, which is divided into districts. In the federal system, each Circuit is a separate court. So, theoretically, each appellate ruling is binding on trial courts in other districts and should also be given stare decisis effect in other appellate districts. http://via.library.depaul.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2475&context=law-review


  71. - Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:16 pm:

    ==
    As I recall Edgar ran a surplus and had a rainy day fund==

    Easy to do when you don’t pay into pension system


  72. - Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:18 pm:

    Be interested to see the written Order. If it’s based on the union contracts, what happens when the agreement for some of those contracts expires at the end of the month?


  73. - Anonymous retiree - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:20 pm:

    Has anyone checked to see if the AG’s office submitted their payroll for the 15th?


  74. - walker - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:22 pm:

    Is that the Comptroller’s response to any judges order? “Our systems won’t let us do that.” The FLSA thing might not be done perfectly already, but couldn’t possibly take more than a month to comply. This claim is even more absurd.

    Come on now. If you can withhold and pay union fees by individual, from their paychecks, you obviously have already identified union members in your payroll system.

    What is the penalty for making a false factual claim to a judge, to avoid compliance with an order?


  75. - DuPage Don - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:22 pm:

    The casualties are adding up for the participants in the 2018 election cycle!


  76. - West Side the Best Side - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:31 pm:

    The only exception to the one appellate court is if there are differing opinions from different districts. The trial courts have to follow the appellate opinion from the district they are in. If, as in Cook, there are differing opinions from different divisions within the district, then the judges have a choice. As far as the effect of differing rulings on a state-wide agency if they both deal with the exact issues - looks like coin flipping time.


  77. - Nieva - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:33 pm:

    Speaking of computer systems, IDOT still does it’s bills from the yards on a system that was first used in the late 80s. The yards tried windows once and decided the old system was better.


  78. - Archiesmom - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:33 pm:

    With respect to appellate jurisdiction, that can get complicated. The Cook County order goes to the First District on appeal. The St. Clair order goes to the Fifth. Both those Circuits are theoretically bound by either district of the Appellate Court, but the First and Fifth Districts of the AC are free to disagree with each other. Happens all the time.


  79. - Formerly Known As... - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:34 pm:

    ==She absolutely has that choice==

    As she has established by her prior actions.

    Declining to appeal this ruling and allowing workers to get paid would weaken Speaker Madigan’s leverage in his standoff with Governor Rauner, and vice versa. Whether she considers any of that in making her choice, only she knows.


  80. - PublicServant - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:34 pm:

    How does the judge feel about the Confederate flag controversy? Just wondering?


  81. - Macbeth - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:35 pm:

    The only thing that matters are any legislators that take a check when employees *can’t* get a check.


  82. - Archiesmom - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:35 pm:

    Westsider and I obviously crossed posts.


  83. - Anon - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:36 pm:

    Has anyone wondered whether the comptroller guy at the court perjured himself by saying we can’t figure out who’s union and who’s not


  84. - Macbeth - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:44 pm:

    If I were a legislator, I’d be looking how to “un direct deposit” my check. I know from where I work — if any legislators, GOP or D take a check when workers can’t get paid, they’ve lost many, many votes.


  85. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:46 pm:

    ===they’ve lost many, many votes===

    It’s July, 2015.

    Take a breath.


  86. - Macbeth - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:48 pm:

    Won’t forget this one.


  87. - He makes Ryan look like a saint - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:48 pm:

    The old if dad says no ask mom trick…..works every time!!!! Lol


  88. - Hank - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:50 pm:

    If the Comptroller’s office can’t figure out who is union or non-union, how was it ever going to set aside fair share fees from those who opting out of joining a union?


  89. - Wensicia - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:00 pm:

    Seems to me if the fair share workers are also under the protection of the union contract, they should be included anyway.


  90. - anon - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:11 pm:

    I can’t imagine that they can’t determine who is in the union and who isn’t. A few years back, when they removed a bunch of PSA’s from the union, payroll had to be updated. They probably just removed a code from that person’s record in the payroll system. You can’t tell me that you can’t use those codes that take out fair share or full dues to filter the union employees and the non-union ones.


  91. - Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:19 pm:


    - Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:16 pm:

    ==
    As I recall Edgar ran a surplus and had a rainy day fund==

    Easy to do when you don’t pay into pension system”

    THANK YOU, exactly what I was thinking


  92. - Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:23 pm:

    “- Rich Miller - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 5:46 pm:

    ===they’ve lost many, many votes===

    It’s July, 2015.

    Take a breath.”

    Rich, I actually agree with you. I was BIG TIME waiting to vote Against Quinn in 2011, 2012, and 2013. When the fall of 2014 came around, the ran to the polls to vote for Quinn and against Rauner.

    Rich as you know, it always depends who they are running against. We are a LONG way away from 2018.

    Please let’s just concentrate on 2015 and not 2018 or even 2016.

    We need action now and not politics.


  93. - Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:25 pm:

    Sorry Rich, I meant to say that I REALLY agree with you that I really strongly agree with you for the reasons that I stated above.


  94. - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:28 pm:

    Unions prove time and again their importance to their members. How many court cases have the unions won, and grievances, that involve huge issues? How would individuals have the resources to fight legal battles and to get legislation passed as effectively as unions? No wonder some want to divide and conquer unions, and cripple them or wipe them out.

    This is an example of how public unions are more than just vehicles of political opinion, as the anti-union petitioners in the upcoming SCOTUS fair share case contend. Unions tend to the business of their members, and that transcends politics. Workers want to get paid for their work. There is nothing political about that.


  95. - Let'sMovetoTexas - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:31 pm:

    Madigans are costing taxpayers more and more in Court. At least Lisa’s ‘independence’ has been exposed as a lie. Meanwhile the Dem House minons slavishly follow their Speaker/Godfather over the cliff. In my office, Rauner is deemed a courageous reformer!


  96. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:37 pm:

    - Let’sMovetoTexas -,

    I haven’t a clue what you’re trying to say, but I’m always amused by how you get every Raunerbot buzz word in, including the new ones of the day.

    I’m excited for you.


  97. - Mason born - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:39 pm:

    Letsmove

    Takes two to tango even in TX.


  98. - Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:41 pm:

    “- Let’sMovetoTexas - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:31 pm:”

    That is because you work for Rauner “ck” superstar.


  99. - Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:43 pm:

    “- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:37 pm:”

    👍 OW


  100. - Let'sMovetoTexas - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:44 pm:

    Oswego: Can you read English? Should I start posting in Spanish? I don’t know for certain what a Raunerbot is, but I know I am not one. My office really thinks Rauner is on to something good, and many are normally Dems. I thought all the state retirees and employees who blog here ( many on state time) should know that the perception in the taxpaying world is quite different!


  101. - Defeated - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:49 pm:

    Let’sMove - um, state employees ARE taxpayers.


  102. - Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:51 pm:

    “- Let’sMovetoTexas - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:44 pm:”

    You enjoy hurting good people.


  103. - Out There - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:54 pm:

    Letsmove…It looks like your “office” all suffers from delusions of significance. Ask people outside of your “office” if they understand the importance of government functions or lack thereof.


  104. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:54 pm:

    - Let’sMovetoTexas -

    ===I thought all the state retirees and employees who blog here ( many on state time) should know that the perception in the taxpaying world is quite different!===

    That’s fun, the exclamation mark is thrilling.

    So, what was it you said…

    ===Madigans are costing taxpayers more and more in Court. At least Lisa’s ‘independence’ has been exposed as a lie. Meanwhile the Dem House minons slavishly follow their Speaker/Godfather over the cliff. In my office, Rauner is deemed a courageous reformer!===

    Again the exclamation mark, so I know you’re serious.

    I guess your office speaks Raunerbot gibberish? Your intra-office memos must be compelling…


  105. - park - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:59 pm:

    so we’ve got a tame cook county judge (where no one get to the bench without the OK of MJM and Ed Burke) versus a downstate judge up for retention.

    Time for the AG to provide a few details on the “2007 and 2009 judge” story that’s being solely relied on to support her position. I do no believe that a decent judge would say “this is legally wrong but I’ll let you get away with it this time, just don’t ever come to me again with this”. The story has holes you could drive a truck through. It smells….give me the facts and the basis for going before the court. Otherwise, the AG’s position looks really political and cold as heck toward State employees.

    Hope this goes to the Illinois Supreme Court for a ruling. Cuz’ what I’ve heard so far is a crock.


  106. - DuPage Dave - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 6:59 pm:

    If you need any help packing in for you move to Texas, please let me know.


  107. - Rufus - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 7:01 pm:

    @Let’sMovetoTexas — go ahead …. Don’t let the door hit you.


  108. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 7:09 pm:

    - park -,

    Hit the “search” key here, Rich covered it this week; 2007, 2009…

    It’s a good read.


  109. - Norm DaPlume - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 7:13 pm:

    The comptroller’s office doesn’t maintain personnel records for all state employees so there was no misleading of the court here.


  110. - A Jack - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 7:17 pm:

    Three digit bargaining unit code on every payroll record.


  111. - Macbeth - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 7:23 pm:

    Hey, here’s an idea. How about a judge actually says, “Look, if you can’t pay workers, then workers can’t work.”

    That’s the real ruling — the one that a common sense judge should issue.

    No budget for checks? Then shut down the offices.


  112. - Austin Blvd - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 7:25 pm:

    “…And the judge said “pay up” at a make believe trial and said “supper’s waitin’ at home and I’ve got to get to it…”


  113. - Rat Race? What's that?? - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 7:51 pm:

    Wow, the democrats here really are flustered. I rather enjoy seeing that for a change. Look at how you all jump on LetsMoveToTexas like a bunch of mindless thugs.

    I’d say Rauner is succeeding in shaking things up. Lol!


  114. - Kevin - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 7:52 pm:

    You wanted us to continue working so we did and so we need to be paid


  115. - Jorge - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 7:58 pm:

    LMTT, Raunerstan has yet to be established. Which means Texas is the perfect place for you.


  116. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 8:00 pm:

    - Rat Race? What’s that?? -

    I’m a Republican, not a Raunerite.

    BTW, what impresses you more about the governor, the no budget thingy, the eventual raising of taxes signed by the governor, or his Carhartt?

    Take your time…


  117. - Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 8:02 pm:

    “- Rat Race? What’s that?? - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 7:51 pm:

    Wow, the democrats here really are flustered. I rather enjoy seeing that for a change. Look at how you all jump on LetsMoveToTexas like a bunch of mindless thugs.

    I’d say Rauner is succeeding in shaking things up. Lol!”

    You are clueless or just a heartless mean person.

    Maybe you should not be paid on time. Get a clue and by the way, I am not a Democrat.

    I am a TRUE independent so don’t assume bub.


  118. - Rat Race? What's that?? - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 8:12 pm:

    What I see are thugs here who will beat anyone down mob-style if they express an unpopular opinion. Interestimg watching it go on and on. Do as you please, obviously, just know what you look like.


  119. - Defeated - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 8:18 pm:

    Rat Face, if LMTT is going to insult folks and take great pleasure in their suffering, of course those people are going to fight back. It’s possible to express an opposing position without deliberately insulting people.


  120. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 8:19 pm:

    - Rat Race? What’s that?? -

    Don’t be a victim, if you have a point, make it, drive-by “Go Rauner!” silliness isn’t making much of a point…


  121. - DimBulbTester - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 8:23 pm:

    Comptroller Munger, I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the people who have dues or fair share amounts collected from their checks are probably the ones in union positions.
    Remember, the governor had you keeping two sets of books for those people so he could withhold the fair share money from the union.
    You didn’t have any trouble identifying them then.


  122. - park - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 8:25 pm:

    Chill, Rat, you’ll get used to it. You probably disagree with them on 5% of the issues, they’re OK on the rest. I work with lots of D’s and we’re on the same track expect for the one day every 2 years where we totally disagree.

    OW: No, I haven’t seen enough facts, and I’m not real happy with lines being fed to this blog by the AG’s people. Sorry Rich.

    There are all sorts of bases for paying workers 100% for work they’ve already performed. All sorts of contract law involved, and the US constitution’s contract clause comes into play where the State is a part to an employment contract, union or otherwise. I’m too tired to do a brief on it, suffice to say this needs to go to the Illinois S.Ct. for a full review. Best way to do that is continue pay using the St. Clair Cty. decision while the Court does a full analysis on the issue. I’m just afraid the AG is political, not legal, on this issue. It happens.


  123. - All the answers - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 8:25 pm:

    Seems to me that the St. Clair decision is an extremely weak legal position. Did the court ask for proof that the Comptroller couldn’t figure out whose who? I agree with the comment above - then how can Rauner expect union fair share fees to be set aside and determined by this same reasoning? Another weak argument legally speaking: that this ruling somehow applies to all state employees. If this is all Team Rauner is hanging their hat on - I hope they have plenty more hot air to BS their way through the next few months because this court ruling doesn’t stand up legally speaking.


  124. - Anonymous - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 8:26 pm:

    No, Rat, not unpopular opinions, just poorly articulated ones.


  125. - Mason born - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 8:26 pm:

    Rat race

    If you’re going to post an oppinion here you ought to be willing to defend it and if defending it upsets you well. . There is always the newspaper comment section.


  126. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 8:28 pm:

    - park -,

    Good luck in your search.


  127. - Anon - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 8:31 pm:

    both sides are spinning their wheels and making political theater while not actually doing the real work that needs to be done.
    i want state employees to be paid because that is the fair and right thing. if r cared about paying state employees he would have line
    item-ed instead of trashing the entire budget.


  128. - All the answers - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 8:38 pm:

    Anon - I agree.


  129. - State Employee Here - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 8:47 pm:

    Macbeth - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 7:23 pm:
    No budget for checks? Then shut down the offices.

    I agree! Maybe the whole state should shut down their offices, except for essential employees who will be paid $7.25 an hour per Federal law. See if public opinion changes when people can’t get their business done and EVERYONE is affected. I was told I had to come into work - it was business as usual. Now … sorry no pay but you can take out a loan. Close those offices down and lets see how quick this gets fixed. If I’m not going to get paid indefinitely, let me sit home and look for another job!!!


  130. - park - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:02 pm:

    OW: Thanks. Peace.


  131. - Motivation? - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:10 pm:

    Park, if you’re concerned about the AG’s motivation, let me share some information from Comptroller Munger’s appearance on a Springfield radio program this morning. Lisa Madigan was asked by the Comptrollers office to file the law suit because she (the comptroller) can only distribute funds if she has an appropriation or a court order.

    So, while her boss, the gov., was expending precious state resources on his “somebody is trying to stop you from being paid, but I’m fightin’ for ya” tour, Munger sat quietly knowing that Lisa Madigan was acting on her behalf.

    Everything in this town is political, but it isn’t the AG I’d be wondering about this time.


  132. - Call Me Crazy - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:18 pm:

    State employees must feel like pinadas by now. What a shame. I think the overwhelming majority of them are conscientious people who perform important jobs many of is take for granted.
    I am all for the St. Clair County judges decision. I am struck, though, by the fact that lead counsel for the unions may have been CJ Baricevic; who happens to be running as a Democrat against US Congressman Bost and who also happens to be the son of John Baricevic, the Democratic chief judge in St. Clair County who, as it turns out, is running for retention himself next year.


  133. - The Dude Abides - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:25 pm:

    Well at least with this issue likely ending up at the ISC this issue will finally be resolved without any confusion in the future… just like the pension issue. LOL.


  134. - VanillaMan - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:30 pm:

    This is no way to run a government. Thanks Governor Rauner for being so bad at your job we have to get judges to do it.


  135. - Union Man - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:31 pm:

    Although I love Texas, it has one of the worse child poverty rates in the nation.


  136. - Pawnee - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:42 pm:

    If the St. Clair Co. judge’s ruling does not distinguish between union and non-union workers, would it also include independent contractors who work full-time for the state? I’m curious where they fall in this. Anyone know?


  137. - Yellow Dog Democrat - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 9:45 pm:

    Union: it isn’t just the child poverty rates in Texas that are abysmal. 1 in 5 women live in poverty and 1 in 4 people with disabilities.


  138. - Tucker - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:26 pm:

    Contract law does not trump constitutional law. Something stinks.

    L Madigan’s job, which she does very well, is to protect the constitution.

    Rat, you might be happier in the Tribune comment section. Yes, your man is shaking things up…like cutting off services to old people, people dependent on medical services and threating folks livelihoods but how does that contribute to a public good? Do you know what public good means?

    It makes me sick to think about the time, money and energy we are spending on this BS.

    And what V. Man said at 9:30.


  139. - RNUG - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:29 pm:

    == Rauner will budget (and spam) via EO ==

    Rauner can’t budget by EO without the GA passing an appropriation first.


  140. - RNUG - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:34 pm:

    == don’t all those human service agencies have a contract with the state? ==

    Unless the State has changed the basic state contract boilerplate, there is a clause in there stating the contract is void if the funds are not appropriated.


  141. - RNUG - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 10:38 pm:

    == Is that the Comptroller’s response to any judges order? “Our systems won’t let us do that.” ==

    If they are still using the payroll systems I’m familiar with, the agency prepares all the deductions, adjustments, etc. and just sends the final format to the Comptroller. In other words, it used to be the Comptroller just recorded it and cut the check.


  142. - Tucker - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:02 pm:

    Correct RNUG. In the meantime, those agencies, administered and staffed by highly qualified and caring professionals, are trying to help clients understand why Susie/Tyrone/LaKisha/johnnie won’t be there next week to help with changing adult diapers/cleaning ventilator tubes/wash sheets for bed wetting traumatized children or God forbid, help those kids with their trauma.

    My fear is that G. Rauner and his circle of advisors are so rich that they have absolutely no understanding of these struggles.


  143. - aghhh - Thursday, Jul 9, 15 @ 11:25 pm:

    Everyone here understands that lawyers *must* forum shop, right? Lawyers have an obligation to zealously represent their clients; if a different forum might give you a leg up, your duty as a lawyer is to pursue that venue.


  144. - Motivation? - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 6:39 am:

    So the Comptroller could simply instruct each agency to only send check information for those employees who have union related deductions. This would allow her to adhere strictly to the judges ruling.
    Everyone thinks that all state employees should be paid for the work that they do. But if the judges ruling was specific to employees with a contract (ie union employees), and as Comptroller Munger said yesterday, she “needs an appropriation or a court order” to distribute state funds, then she doesn’t have authorization to issue payments to non-union employees.


  145. - efudd - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 7:44 am:

    While I still reserve opinion on Ms. Munger and the job she is doing as Comptroller, those who think, as a payroll issue, she can simply do this or that, are beyond clueless.


  146. - Arizona Bob - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 7:50 am:

    @OW

    =I’m a Republican, not a Raunerite.=

    Surrrre you’re a Republican, OW. I can tell by the way you oppose tax increases, support limited government, and the way you always take the side of the people when government and the people’s interests conflict. (HEAVY snark here)

    I suspect that you’re an “Edgar” Republican, which is essentially indistinguishable from Madigan and Cullerton’s Democratic goals, with a touch of good ol’ SOS, Kjellander and Cellini corruption thrown in….


  147. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 7:56 am:

    - Arizona Bob -,

    Isn’t it a wee bit early in Arizona to be so angry?


  148. - Anonymous - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 8:15 am:

    Willie, it appears that A. Bob falls into the category of “angry, old, white guy”. LOL!


  149. - VanillaMan - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 8:15 am:

    I suspect that you’re an “Edgar” Republican, which is essentially indistinguishable from Madigan and Cullerton’s Democratic goals, with a touch of good ol’ SOS, Kjellander and Cellini corruption thrown in…

    I know Jim Edgar. Just saw him a couple of times last month. You obviously haven’t the slightest idea of what you are saying. You have forgotten a whole lot of history. You are bathing in ignorance and enjoying it.

    You are embarrassing yourself.

    OW has always been rabidly anti-Rauner to the point of sounding like he isn’t a Republican. I’ve called him out on this all last year. I never had to do it by insulting the last functioning Illinois governor.


  150. - Demoralized - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 8:29 am:

    @Arizona Bob:

    The only party you belong to is the “Arizona Bob” party.


  151. - Demoralized - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 8:29 am:

    ==You are bathing in ignorance and enjoying it.==

    He does that often


  152. - Georg Sande - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 8:34 am:

    –”OW has always been rabidly anti-Rauner to the point of sounding like he isn’t a Republican.” –

    He isn’t Republican. His “my party shtick” is beyond worn. So too his rabid hatred of all things Rauner. None of that is an insult. Rather readily apparent to anyone really paying attention in this space.


  153. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 8:38 am:

    Oh - Georg Sande -,

    - Arizona Bob - has a comedic flair to his anger, … you’re just angry. Smile, it’s a great start to a nice day.


  154. - Anonymous - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 8:52 am:

    “he isn’t a Republican.”

    Wow! The party of the big tent sure is welcoming to all!! I can see why the future is so bright for that party.


  155. - Nickname #2 - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 9:06 am:

    Before anyone says that the Democrats are just as bad, keep in mind that the policies pushed by today’s democrats are far less liberal than those from years back, while the republicans from the 70s and 80s would be democrats today. Reagan couldn’t win the GOP primary today.


  156. - PublicServant - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 9:06 am:

    Oh, he is a Republican. He’s just trying to stop the tent from being moved into the “Loyal to the Plutocrat” camp, and return it to the “Loyal to Voters” camp, home to many great statesman.


  157. - PublicServant - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 9:07 am:

    err statesmen and women. Sorry bout that.


  158. - A Jack - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 9:19 am:

    I used to be Republican myself, but the current union hating trip that the Republicans are on has left me with great distaste for that section of the party. They need to get back to their core values of attacking the poor and helpless, if they want my vote ever again.


  159. - Nickname #2 - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 9:20 am:

    (5 ILCS 70/1.04) (from Ch. 1, par. 1005)
    Sec. 1.04. Words importing the masculine gender may be applied to females.
    (Source: Laws 1945, p. 1717.)


  160. - AC - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 9:20 am:

    ==He’s just trying to stop the tent from being moved into the “Loyal to the Plutocrat” camp, and return it to the “Loyal to Voters” camp==

    Which is why he is attempting to move forward an agenda that he seemed to be ashamed of, especially in the general election. After all, voters who only take a casual interest in politics don’t deserve to have their interests represented.


  161. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 9:26 am:

    - AC -, with respect, you may want to reread…

    I always appreciate the support, thanks. In reality, the anger projection isn’t about me, they just need a channel to say it.


  162. - A Jack - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 9:35 am:

    There are 370, three digit local bargaining unit codes used to designate if someone is under union contract. For example, 085 is American Association of University Professors - EIU. No code, no contract, no pay.


  163. - SAP - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 9:38 am:

    =I never had to do it by insulting the last functioning Illinois governor=

    I would submit that George Ryan, warts and all, was the last functioning Illinois Governor.


  164. - DiRT - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 10:18 am:

    You can thank the Unions for making Madigan so powerful that we all pay the price. At least Rauner is trying to keep food on the table for my children. No Union-shilled Demorats are working on it.


  165. - anon - Friday, Jul 10, 15 @ 12:44 pm:

    r wants you to think he is trying to keep state employees paid. if he really cared about state employee pay, then he would have let that provision pass in the last budget and veto’ed the parts he didn’t like. or he would sign off on the amendment to the temp budget. but he would rather act through inaction and blame the dems.


Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.


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