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That’s probably the ballgame

Wednesday, Sep 2, 2015

* Monique…


Without GOP votes, the Democrats can’t move the bill forward. And the 15-day clock expires this week.

That’s a Rauner win, in case you’re keeping score.

- Posted by Rich Miller        

601 Comments
  1. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:26 pm:

    Coward


  2. - BeenThereB4 - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:27 pm:

    The first line on his “Contact” link (http://www.repkendunkin.com/contact.htm) is “I and my staff are here for you.”

    Apparently not.


  3. - Austin Blvd - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:27 pm:

    Call the bill.


  4. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:28 pm:

    +1

    - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:26 pm:
    Coward


  5. - Say It Ain't So!! - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:28 pm:

    Can it be called for a vote next week?


  6. - Huh? - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:28 pm:

    Excused absence?


  7. - Tournaround Agenda - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:28 pm:

    Unbelievable.


  8. - Robert the 1st - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:29 pm:

    Madigan’s plan from the get go. Let Rauner do the heavy lifting and get labor to rally around Democrats from their “attempt” to stop Rauner.


  9. - Been There - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:29 pm:

    ===Rep. Ken Dunkin is absent and says he won’t be coming this week.===
    Our rule is whenever Ken tells you he is going to do something, plan for him to do the opposite. We don’t even bother putting a notation on the roll call for him.


  10. - COPN - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:29 pm:

    Is it an overstatement to say this will be one of the top three plot twists of this overtime session?


  11. - 100 Miles West - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:29 pm:

    Which of Rauner’s vacation homes is Dunkin staying at?


  12. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:29 pm:

    Oh well.

    If Durkin would’ve held his powder, no statement was needed.


  13. - Robert the 1st - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:29 pm:

    “Can it be called for a vote next week?”
    Believe they have until tomorrow.


  14. - Anon - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:30 pm:

    I see a strike looming large now


  15. - The Dude Abides - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:31 pm:

    They only had 15 days from the day the Senate voted to Override, right? That was August 19 if I recall.


  16. - Horse w/ no name - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:31 pm:

    Dear AFSCME, time to look for a primary opponent for this spineless sellout


  17. - The Way I See It - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:32 pm:

    His FB page has him posing with kids in New York City for a tennis tournament.


  18. - Short Bus Rider - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:32 pm:

    Better luck next time Mikey


  19. - Just Me - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:32 pm:

    Rich, I forgot about the 15 day clock issue. Thanks for the reminder, but isn’t tomorrow (Thursday) still within the 15 day period?


  20. - Grand Avenue - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:32 pm:

    Here’s the map of Rep Dunkin’s district. If you have lived within these boundaries for the past 2 consecutive years and would like to be a State Representative, I can put you in contact with some unions who would love to write you 5-figure checks.


  21. - Grand Avenue - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:32 pm:

    http://www.elections.il.gov/Downloads/VotingInformation/PDF/2011Districts/2011RepDist5.pdf


  22. - 47th Ward - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:33 pm:

    Ken Dunkin chairs the House Higher Ed Approps committee. One key piece of the budget that still needs to be addressed is, yep, higher education. The Senate passed a MAP budget two weeks ago. Could Chairman Dunkin trouble himself by getting to Springfield to, I don’t know, maybe do his freaking job?

    Unless this is a set-up, Dunkin’s absence is inexcusable. He should be stripped of his chairmanship.


  23. - blue dog dem - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:33 pm:

    Let collective bargaining,the way it is intended to work, begin.


  24. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:33 pm:

    You’re my brother and I love you Fredo, but don’t ever take sides with anyone against the family ever again.


  25. - FraUD - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:33 pm:

    His constituents deserve to know where is and why he’s not fulfilling his duties! One day a week is so hard.


  26. - thunderspirit - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:34 pm:

    It’ll absolutely be a win for the Governor when the clock runs out.

    The optimist in me wonders if maybe this is the victory the Rauner administration needs to “save face” and move toward a budget deal. (The cynic in me is still laughing at the optimist in me.)


  27. - COPN - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:35 pm:

    Override on 8/19, House Calendar 8/20, AV deadline 9/4

    In terms of political maneuvering, Madigan didn’t have to enter it on 8/20, which would’ve bought another week of time, but then again I’m not sure Dunkin’s antics could’ve been predicted


  28. - Nick Name - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:35 pm:

    Unbelievable. Dear Lord.


  29. - phocion - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:36 pm:

    “Durkin. Dunkin. It’s all good.”
    -Bruce Rauner


  30. - Rod - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:36 pm:

    That is a big Rauner win as was the failure to override HB 3507 which would have maintained services for DCFS wards between the ages of 18-21.


  31. - Mason born - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:36 pm:

    Ok. Question to the audience. As I see it the pressure on Poe and other R’s just ratcheted way up. MJM puts 70 votes on it Poe’s no literally kills it. If it goes to strike Poe literally will wear the hat for voting for a strike for the makority of his district. While Durkin is threatening consequences putting most of your district out on strike is not without consequences. Anyone think Rauner will spend enough to overcome that mess.


  32. - walker - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:36 pm:

    Hope he and his are well.

    Other possibilities abound: For self? For Rauner? For MJM? To save the GOP caucus members from a vote? Part of final budget deal making?


  33. - Anon - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:36 pm:

    Rauner won’t bargain or beg fairly that’s the prob. 500% ins increase. Come on. Really


  34. - Slick Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:37 pm:

    What a coward. Is there anything worse than hiding?


  35. - Union Man - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:37 pm:

    Dereliction of Duty on Dunkin’s part. He is to Illinois workers of all races what Bowe Bergdahl was to soldiers in Afghanistan.
    DISGUSTING


  36. - Albany Park Patriot - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:37 pm:

    Funny that this is Rauner’s biggest achievement of the session-not having a veto overridden.


  37. - AuH2O - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:38 pm:

    Hooray! It feels great to be a conservative in Illinois…FINALLY!!!


  38. - Norseman - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:38 pm:

    Yes. With the threat to the members of the Rauner caucus Dunkin’s absence is the nail in this coffin.


  39. - walker - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:38 pm:

    Avoiding this vote is not a case of “voting his district” versus the Speaker. Take that off the table.


  40. - A guy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:38 pm:

    He may have saved another 3-4 members on his side some trouble here by absorbing the blow. Many GOPers aren’t the only ones sighing with relief on the floor.


  41. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:38 pm:

    The Labor Movement…

    Madigan knows you can’t go to Rauner…

    Rauner knows… you’re a paper tiger at best…

    That’s why this is the ball game.

    AFSCME, you can “thank” the 40% of voters that claimed to be from Union households and voted for Rauner anyway.

    Might as well strike, make Rauner a hero, and quicken your demise


  42. - Rahm'sMiddleFinger - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:38 pm:

    Wanna bet Dunkin doesn’t run again? Where he goes to work next, and who is paying him will be very telling.


  43. - nixit71 - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:39 pm:

    @Grand Avenue - Looking at those boundaries, I would question why we need a district that is only 2 blocks wide in some areas. #gerrymandered2death


  44. - Huh? - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:39 pm:

    Unless you have personal knowledge why Rep. Dunkin is absent, back off. For all we know, he is dealing with a family emergency.


  45. - Casual observer - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:39 pm:

    I hear he was spotted hiking the apalachian trail.


  46. - Beat The Clock - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:39 pm:

    It’s only Wednesday. Stay tuned…


  47. - Rock and Roll - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:39 pm:

    It’s like the House of Cards series…..Frank Underwood wins again. But Frank, the Karma bus is filling up fast…and about to arrive at your front door. Stay tuned.


  48. - burbanite - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:39 pm:

    Call it for a vote.


  49. - Time to watch Dunkin's D2s - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:40 pm:

    Why am I not surprised that this is Ken Dunkin. Anyone care to take a microscope to his D2s and his philanthropic pet projects?


  50. - Pacman - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:40 pm:

    Call it for a vote and let’s see where everyone stands. Maybe Poe will vote his district. Don’t let it expire without a vote make people stand up and be counted.


  51. - burbanite - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:41 pm:

    -Unless you have personal knowledge why Rep. Dunkin is absent, back off. For all we know, he is dealing with a family emergency.-

    I actually know my rep. is dealing with a family emergency and still made it down for the vote.


  52. - hisgirlfriday - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:41 pm:

    as brian mackey noted on twitter, this is a guy who missed the blago impeachment vote to go on a cruise.


  53. - Anon - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:41 pm:

    Rauner claimed to want the override to fail so he could have the opportunity to negotiate in good faith - something he has yet to do. I have no doubt, however, that he will see this not as a challenge to negotiate fairly but as a mandate to crush the unions and implement his turn back agenda. This is a sad day for Illinois, its workers, and the people for whom they care and provide services.


  54. - Team Sleep - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:41 pm:

    Union - that’s a little much, don’t you think?!

    If we’re to take him at his word - and if he wasn’t able to make it back because of a previous commitment - then perhaps Speaker Madigan and his leadership team and staff should’ve ensured this move was an ironclad guarantee instead of something that could b e left up to people’s scheduling conflicts and/or commitments.


  55. - Mazesaid - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:42 pm:

    If someone disrespected you for years, took you for granted, relocated your job, tried to get you fired, and just pain old disrespected you in a racial way, then asked you to cancel your family trip to help them out, how would you respond?


  56. - Troy Bien - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:42 pm:

    This is delicious. Rauner should walk out of his office and into the Rotunda with a one page summary of the compensation and benefits that will be paid to AFSCME members.


  57. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:42 pm:

    That’s one for the tax payers!


  58. - A Jack - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:43 pm:

    Well Dunkin, when the poor in your district don’t get help because the state is on strike, or because the budget stalemate continues, remember the blame is on you.


  59. - A guy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:43 pm:

    It may be a win, if that’s possible. It’s not nearly as big of a win as a loss would be a really big loss.

    Time to get to the table and hammer out something that no one likes but everyone can live with. It’s the best we can hope for.


  60. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:44 pm:

    “I’m a state worker and I’m voting for Rauner to send a message to Quinn… ”

    This… is the response to your message.


  61. - Anonyrick - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:44 pm:

    Is this the same guy who took a carribean cruise when there was a vote for Blagojevich’s impeachment?

    http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/157461


  62. - illinoised - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:44 pm:

    Brutus.


  63. - Time to watch Dunkin's D2s - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:45 pm:

    Anyone care to take a microscope to his D2s and philanthropic pet projects?


  64. - DuPage Don - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:46 pm:

    If true, a rare victory for common sense in Illinois!


  65. - JS Mill - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:46 pm:

    Interesting development.

    The GOP caucus move set the table to use the Rauner and the legislators he controls line like an anvil dropped on someones head, this takes the steam out of that opportunity.

    This round goes to the Governor.


  66. - Give Me A Break - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:47 pm:

    I saw him on a grassy knoll around 2:00.


  67. - Austin Blvd - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:47 pm:

    Hey A guy:
    Guess Dunkin didn’t get the secret hand signal.


  68. - Touré's Latte - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:49 pm:

    Let the Good Faithin’ begin!


  69. - walker - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:49 pm:

    Naively predicted that if no vote today, it means we’re getting close to a budget deal. Maybe hope will out.

    Broken clocks and all that.


  70. - Ghost - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:49 pm:

    The loser here is Cullerton and the Senate


  71. - Austin Blvd - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:51 pm:

    Memo to AFSCME:
    Remember when you chose to support GOP candidates despite the caucus that had been traditionally there for you?
    Remember when your members thought, wink, wink everything would be OK with Bruce at the helm?
    Remember when you protested in your green shirts and shouted at Quinn and Madigan and every other Democrat you could shout and spit at?
    Remember those days?
    Well, there’s always tomorrow.


  72. - A guy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:51 pm:

    Hey Austin, I bet he got the message loud and clear. Apparently he responded in a manner you disagree with, and the signalers disagree with.

    I don’t think this is any time to spike the ball or be ungracious. I think it’s time to demonstrate that this measure wasn’t necessary to solve a problem.


  73. - FatLady - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:51 pm:

    haven’t sung yet, we shall see after final tally.

    this bill wouldn’t ever have been proposed if Rauner had been even semi-sane on negotiating tactics and public rhetoric. reminds me of why so many merit comp folks stampede to be in unions, Blagojevich had been terribly unfair in his treatment of us for YEARS. bad faith begets drastic response.


  74. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:51 pm:

    If you are a Union member, and you blame Dunkin, or the Speaker, or whomever…

    Elections have consequences.

    AFSCME tried an end run, but really, after Rauner got 40% of Union household voters, it’s not like the Labor Movement really is all that unified.


  75. - nixit71 - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:52 pm:

    Then what exactly did AFSCME buy with that $2,000 contribution to Dunkin on 6/26/15?


  76. - Amalia - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:52 pm:

    Durkin Dunkin sounds like Drinkin’ Dunkin.


  77. - Ahoy! - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:53 pm:

    When I have my tin foil hat on, I wonder if this was not orchestrated and a major olive branch to Rauner. Either way, I hope that the two sides can now come together and work out solutions.


  78. - illinois - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:53 pm:

    I believe the losers continue to be the citizens of Illinois who suffer due to the Governor and General Assembly playing political games.


  79. - Kathryn - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:54 pm:

    Dear Huh? Try to keep up.No family emergency.Durkin had a trip planned and thought the House would be adjourned. That doesn’t excuse him from being absent. It is his job to be in attendance until House finishes its business & adjourns. He shirked his responsibility & should be voted out.


  80. - Norseman - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:55 pm:

    Poe is not going to risk being thrown out of the caucus. If anything, he’d take a big hit to his catering business. He did big business with old GOP functions. He’ll still want the business with the new owner of the party. If not so much for him, for his kids.


  81. - A guy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:55 pm:

    Memo to Austin:

    You have been uneasy allies forever with the Speaker and former Governor and the caucus in general. The bi-polar nature of AFSCME with support for members isn’t conducive to any mission. It just might be true, that some, even many, of your fellow members, simply don’t agree with you.


  82. - The Dude Abides - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:55 pm:

    Just a thought, If Madigan really wanted to override this veto don’t you think would have made sure that the bill would be called on a day that all his members were present? He could have called the bill last week but he waits until this week when one of his members is gone. A I reading too much into this?


  83. - Lincoln Lad - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:57 pm:

    A win for Cullerton all the same with labor, he did his part.
    A loss for MJM - but it’s just another demonstration he’s not who he used to be. Also, his support of labor was for convenience - lest we forget his failed pension reform efforts despite the Cullerton constitutional argument.
    Time for Rauner to broker a budget deal, hopefully with someone more interested in getting something done than in demonstrating his power (a power that is likely in major decline between now and 2016).


  84. - Caldwell - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:58 pm:

    ***I don’t think this is any time to spike the ball or be ungracious.***

    A Guy: We’ll I’ll be. I wish you would review your missives after Rauner’s November victory. Graciousness was not part of your tone. Glad to hear you’ve reacquired your balanced, civil, center.


  85. - Casual observer - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:58 pm:

    In this day and age it’s silly to have to sit in your “cubicle” to do your job. He should be able to vote remotely.


  86. - BeenThereB4 - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:59 pm:

    Governor Rauner consistently states that he is “bargaining in good faith.”

    He also consistently tries to slip language into legislation and even contract proposals with AFSCME that would strip the unions right to negotiate on behalf of it’s members.

    The two positions are not compatible.

    His actions speak louder than his words.


  87. - Been There - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:59 pm:

    === but he waits until this week when one of his members is gone===
    There were some missing last week also. Most with real excuses.


  88. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:59 pm:

    @$&:! Maybe Poe or Franks will still defy Durkin and Rauner and face expulsion if they call it.


  89. - Kathryn - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:59 pm:

    Meant Dunkin not Durkin although Dunkin is sitting on Durkins side of the aisle now with his no show


  90. - NewWestSuburbanGOP'er - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:00 pm:

    The sad thing about all of this is, it is not a win for Rauner or a loss for Madigan. This will be a loss for the residents of Illinois who rely on state services, plain and simple.

    Governor Rauner and his puppets, Durkin, Sandack and Dunkin will be in for a rude awakening come the next election cycle.


  91. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:01 pm:

    I guessing;

    Madigan knew all along he wasn’t going to have 71 and just bluffed…

    Heather Steans was in charge of the head count and counted Dunkin and Schoenberg in the Speaker’s 71…

    Dunkin is just a different kind of cat, a cat that won’t be herded…

    AFSCME is just too easy to lead on…


  92. - NewWestSuburbanGOP'er - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:02 pm:

    If I were Poe or Franks, I would tell the Minority Leader and the Governor to pound sand and vote for the override.


  93. - MykeD - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:02 pm:

    Rep. Dunkin’s fb page shows a pic of him in ny on Monday.


  94. - MurMan - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:03 pm:

    Franks is a Democrat. lol


  95. - 35/Shields - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:03 pm:

    Anyone remember when Dunkin pulled a similar trick re: the vote on Blago’s impeachment? Just sayin’


  96. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:03 pm:

    Franks is a Dem…


  97. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:04 pm:

    Smart move force the GOP to pick sides or sideline I wonder how my union firefighter rep will vote?call the vote


  98. - Formerly Known As... - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:06 pm:

    If the override fails, Madigan loses another round to Rauner, as he did on the pay increase issue.

    If the override wins, Rauner finally gets a radioactive example of the ==corrupt bargain== he can point to and hammer on for years.

    The juice may not have been worth the squeeze for Madigan on this.

    https://capitolfax.com/2015/09/02/afscme-bill-override-roundup/#comment-12304474


  99. - Lincoln Lad - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:06 pm:

    Pssssst
    Jack Franks is a democrat.


  100. - Mouthy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:06 pm:

    Could be the Speaker is giving the Governor 24 hours or so to hash out a deal..


  101. - Arizona Bob - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:07 pm:

    So Darth Madigan’s “Death Star” blows up and the dark side of his force is vanquished. Now AFCSME will have to declare themselves as the enemy of the people if they strike over “more” when the state can’t even afford the status quo….

    Perhaps the 15% no longer controls 100% of Springfield anymore…and THAT’S what the last election was about.

    Don’t ignore the fact that quite a few union members understand the situation and weren’t selfish and greedy enough to demand more than the state can afford. Not a majority, but a substantial minority..


  102. - Mason born - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:07 pm:

    Ok. If your an AFSCME member and convinced the Gov. Will declare impasse and attempt a horid contract or do a lockout you still have till October 1st. at least. Thanks to the tolling agreement you have some time to prepare. This was always a hail mary before the end of the first half.


  103. - Formerly Known As... - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:07 pm:

    ==This will be a loss for the residents of Illinois who rely on state services, plain and simple.==

    Only if AFSCME strikes. Rauner has already taken a lockout off the table.


  104. - jlt - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:07 pm:

    I just called Dunkins Chicago office. A staff member said she couldn’t tell me why he wasn’t in Springfield today. But she would pass on my information. Whether you vote yes or no at least show up. Worthless


  105. - Austin Blvd - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:09 pm:

    A guy,
    Bipolar is the operative word. Where’s Henry when you need him (or don’t?)


  106. - nixit71 - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:09 pm:

    == He shirked his responsibility & should be voted out.==

    By whom? Dunkin often runs unopposed. In 2012, only 20% voted for his competitor in the primary, Dori Collins, who received zero support from the public sector unions. And the heavily gerry-mandered 5th District doesn’t lend itself well to Republican opponents.


  107. - SteveMart - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:09 pm:

    See, those Rauner vacation homes come in handy after all. Kind of curious they were only available the week before Labor Day, bu have fun Rep. Dunkin!


  108. - Allen D - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:09 pm:

    @Kathryn … you mean Dem Ken Dunkin right? Dirkin is there.


  109. - Slick Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:09 pm:

    ***When I have my tin foil hat on, I wonder if this was not orchestrated and a major olive branch to Rauner.***

    If the vote is not called, I would think that this line of thinking would have legs.


  110. - Union Man - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:10 pm:

    @ Team Sleep. No, it is not. When it comes to Civic Duty self gets put aside. That’s why it’s called Public Servant. When you or I have to appear in court, they don’t care where we are or what we are doing. Military same way. It’s the duty of a servant and Dunkin is derelict in his.


  111. - Quiet Sage - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:10 pm:

    1) If this was a legitimate family emergency, Dunkin would have said so. He said he had a trip previously planned.

    2) Dunkin’s absence was a terrific personal blow against Madigan, as doubt has now arisen about Madigan’s real intentions (as comments here show).


  112. - MurMan - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:11 pm:

    Takes less than 6 hours to get from NYC to Sfield, and you gain an hour in flight.


  113. - Tone - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:11 pm:

    Fantastic!


  114. - the Cardinal - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:11 pm:

    kenny d gotta do what he gotta do baby


  115. - Honeybear - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:11 pm:

    For those gleeful about this, please remember that these are public servants and their families we are talking about. My family, my spouse, my two teen daughters. I don’t want to strike but mark my word, Rauner will force terrible revenge on us. At what point will you realize that he is going to ruin lives?


  116. - CrazyHorse - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:11 pm:

    ==Dunkin is just a different kind of cat, a cat that won’t be herded…==

    If that were true he’d have been present and cast a NO vote. The only cat he resembles in my eyes is the cowardly lion.


  117. - COPN - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:11 pm:

    ==Override on 8/19, House Calendar 8/20, AV deadline 9/4==

    Actually, Madigan was stuck with the clock starting on 8/19 and apparently the velvet hammer doesn’t work on someone as silky smooth as Dunkin


  118. - A guy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:12 pm:

    ===Caldwell - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 2:58 pm:===

    If you thought I was ungracious on this board after the Governor won, post them Caldwell. I actually dare you.

    Didn’t spike then. Not spiking today. There’s always been a heck of a lot more to it than that to me.

    So, show me smartie pants.


  119. - Allen D - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:12 pm:

    With all this happening, do we see an AFSCME strike on the horizon since the extension runs out this month too?


  120. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:12 pm:

    Dunkin will be fine. Probably be unopposed;

    Oh, I’m sure Labor will make an example of him…


  121. - Formerly Known As... - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:14 pm:

    ==Unless you have personal knowledge why Rep. Dunkin is absent, back off.==

    Well said.

    It was also a mistake to push such ==extreme== legislation on such razor-thin support to begin with.


  122. - Stones - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:14 pm:

    Is there a possibility the vote could be called either Thurs or Fri?


  123. - anonlurker - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:14 pm:

    Deplorable. Blown chance to move forward.


  124. - Lincoln Lad - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:14 pm:

    The Speaker forced a lot of votes for his pension reform last year - votes contrary to district wishes and constituency in the city. Now he’s a champion of labor.

    Blame Dunkin all you want - but in truth the Speaker of last year is really who he is. He wanted pension reform, forced it, and couldn’t have cared less about labor then.

    He only wanted this to fight the Gov while the state is held hostage. That’s why it contained sunset language too.


  125. - Buster - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:15 pm:

    Does this mean Dunkin won’t be in the next edition of “Profiles in Courage?”


  126. - Jake From Elwood - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:15 pm:

    America runs on, I mean, like Dunkin.


  127. - crazybleedingheart - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:15 pm:

    If Madigan wants Dunkin there, he will figure out how to make it happen.

    If not, not.


  128. - WizzardOfOzzie - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:15 pm:

    Maze Jackson on the Facebook. Certainly a defense of Rauner, but not sure if it’s aimed at Labor or the Dems:

    Maze Jackson
    32 mins · Chicago, IL ·

    If someone disrespected you for years, took you for granted, relocated your job, tried to get you fired, and just pain old disrespected you in a racial way, then asked you to cancel your family trip to help them out, how would you respond?
    ‪#‎mazesaid‬


  129. - Snucka - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:16 pm:

    Don’t count the Speaker out just yet.


  130. - Politix - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:16 pm:

    I’m assuming the dens were in the dark about this as many chose today to try for an override of their bills. A couple of them failed by a single vote.


  131. - Mason born - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:16 pm:

    Allen D.

    I suspect a strike will be contingent on whether the gov decides to negotiate.


  132. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:17 pm:

    Again, all an AFSCME strike does now, is quicken the demise of AFSCME.

    Labor chose Rauner at a 40% clip, if AFSCME strikes, Rauner’s numbers will only rise.


  133. - lake county democrat - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:18 pm:

    This is good for the Dems despite the gnashing of teeth - they did not need to own such an admission of union control and then no excuse for not using supermajority power on everything.


  134. - Facts are Stubborn Things - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:18 pm:

    think Poe


  135. - Lincoln Lad - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:19 pm:

    Ken Dunkin helped himself by standing up to the Speaker today. Maze is exactly right.


  136. - Chicagonk - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:21 pm:

    Reminiscent of 2011, when Coli and the Teamsters got behind Emanuel, negotiated their contract, and were able to avoid many of the layoffs that CTU wasn’t able to avoid. AFSCME 31 is the new CTU, probably with similar consequences.


  137. - A guy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:21 pm:

    I think there’s more than meets the eyes here today. May take a little time to get all the dots connected.


  138. - Mouthy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:22 pm:

    Maybe Dunkin’s hiding out in Bulpitt, ready to strike yes on the Veto attempt at a moments notice in what will surely be called the Bulpitt Bull Rush..


  139. - railrat - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:22 pm:

    should be VERY interesting at Boones and Brown’s tonight !!!


  140. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:22 pm:

    Call the vote and let’s see how many are yellow


  141. - Formerly Known As... - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:22 pm:

    ==The loser here is Cullerton and the Senate==

    Madigan leaves the Senate out in the cold yet again.


  142. - Just Saying .... - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:22 pm:

    Here’s hoping someone drops JFK’s “Profiles in Courage” book on our beloved Raymond Poe’s desk!!!!


  143. - CrazyHorse - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:23 pm:

    ==Dunkin will be fine. Probably be unopposed;

    Oh, I’m sure Labor will make an example of him… ==

    Very true. The blame is truly on the union people who voted for Rauner. I personally told many of my friends if Osama Bin Laden was running against Rauner, I’d vote for Bin Laden. They laughed. I told them I wasn’t joking. They’re not laughing now. Quinn would be about as popular as JFK if the election was tomorrow.


  144. - Red eft - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:23 pm:

    So, other than the DCFS coverage for kids 18-21, what overrides were attempted and failed?


  145. - Illinoisvoter - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:26 pm:

    Probably is a complex word. The session is it closed? How many days is it before labor day
    weekend? Mouthy at 3:06 could have hit the nail.


  146. - AC - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:27 pm:

    ==Again, all an AFSCME strike does now, is quicken the demise of AFSCME.==

    OW, you keep repeating this, you may be correct. In light of the fact that the only other alternative is accepting the best and final offer from management that also decimates the union, what practical alternative do you suggest for AFSCME. Sure, elections have consequences, but I don’t consider time travel to the last election to be practical.


  147. - the Cardinal - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:28 pm:

    Speaker doesn’t want KD in the Patch, this way he can hang a couple of HGOP votes onto the bill. Thus save money running someone against them in 2016. It will be ASFCME ground zero This ain’t rocket science folks, its politics at its base level. Addition by subtraction.


  148. - Austin Blvd - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:28 pm:

    You whiners and complainers should get off Dunkin’s back and call Poe and the rest of the courageous GOP.


  149. - Fed up with Rauner - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:28 pm:

    What a weasel. Unbelievable.


  150. - sonny chiss - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:28 pm:

    Somebody update Dunkin’s Wikipedia page.


  151. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:29 pm:

    I think Raymond should vote for the override, let his caucus thro him out, caucus with the Democrats for the rest of this GA, and run for reelection as a Republican. He would be unbeatable in a primary due to the gratefulness of his constituents and the unions.


  152. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:29 pm:

    Profiles in Courage? You can put Ken Dunkin on the cover after standing up to Madigan like this. Thank you for having the courage to do so, sir.


  153. - Chicagonk - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:29 pm:

    @Formally Known As

    Sam McCann probably feels pretty good about his vote right now.


  154. - Not it - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:30 pm:

    Not sure if this is relevant, but doesn’t Dunkin represent downtown Chicago, which was the only part of Chicagk that Rauner won in the election?


  155. - Loop Lady - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:30 pm:

    It ain’t over yet…


  156. - Honeybear - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:31 pm:

    Oswego Willy, please answer me. Respectfully, please answer. Am I to just accept whatever Rauner gives to me and my family? If it were your spouse and two teen daughters affected. Would you simply fold and take what is offered?


  157. - Challengerrt - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:31 pm:

    Wonder how much Rauner paid Dunkin?


  158. - Check - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:32 pm:

    Willy you keep talking about the demise of afscme if they strike. But without this bill Raurner can give a last offer of something so horrible that it doesn’t give them a choice but to strike. The last best offer can strip everything away including vacation, overtime, raises, healthcare, bumping, cola, etc.


  159. - Amalia - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:32 pm:

    how are we to tell what really went down?


  160. - Mama - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:33 pm:

    Why all the fuss about Dunkin? Is Dunkin the 71st vote?


  161. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:34 pm:

    ===…what practical alternative do you suggest for AFSCME. Sure, elections have consequences, but I don’t consider time travel to the last election to be practical.===

    Unless the entire Labor Movement understands that Rauner is trying to dismantle unions by ending collective bargaining, it won’t matter what I suggest or what unions try.

    I also said a strike quickens the demise…

    Nothing seen from Labor seems to want to stop the demise. Nothing learned.


  162. - TROOPER - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:34 pm:

    Oswego, been watching you for a while now…You are a thoughtful poster here most of the time.

    Can you explain to me why you feel a strike will lead to the downfall of afscme? I have tried to read between the lines, but I am not getting your angle.
    Are you saying Rauner will fire them( ala Reagan), or the public backlash would be so severe?????…..


  163. - Norseman - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:35 pm:

    I was hoping that an override would serve as Rauner’s “Joshua” learning experience.

    === Stephen Falken: The whole point was to find a way to practice nuclear war without destroying ourselves. To get the computers to learn from mistakes we couldn’t afford to make. Except, I never could get Joshua to learn the most important lesson.
    David Lightman: What’s that?
    Stephen Falken: Futility. That there’s a time when you should just give up.
    Jennifer: What kind of a lesson is that?
    Stephen Falken: Did you ever play tic-tac-toe?
    Jennifer: Yeah, of course.
    Stephen Falken: But you don’t anymore.
    Jennifer: No.
    Stephen Falken: Why?
    Jennifer: Because it’s a boring game. It’s always a tie.
    Stephen Falken: Exactly. There’s no way to win. The game itself is pointless! But back at the war room, they believe you can win a nuclear war. That there can be ‘acceptable losses.’”


  164. - The Dude Abides - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:35 pm:

    “I think there’s more than meets the eyes here today.”

    @A Guy, I have suspicions that you are right. For 15 days, Madigan couldn’t get all his members present to vote? If he couldn’t it was because he didn’t want to very bad. Madigan knows how badly the Governor wanted his veto to stand. I think they are working on something.
    Now the Union is disappointed in the Dems for not delivering the 71. What are they going to do, vote GOP next time, I think not.


  165. - Mama - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:35 pm:

    ++- Check - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:32 pm: ++
    If you strike, you will not get paid, and you can be fired. As long as you continue working, you can get paid & have a better chance of not getting fired.


  166. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:38 pm:

    - Honeybear -,

    Respectfully,

    Unless Madigan finds that 71st vote, it’s really now about hoping AFSCME gets a deal they can live with. Rauner doesn’t fear AFSCME, I can’t image why he would.

    This is “the dark time” for Labor in Illinois.

    I wish all AFSCME members good luck, and best wishes, but as a Labor force, a Union…

    I wish I had better news.


  167. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:39 pm:

    The crack in the GOP house caucus will mirror the senate


  168. - Mouthy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:41 pm:

    In all seriousness I’m thinking that whatever transposes it’s the Speakers doing and not Dunkin’s. The Speaker wouldn’t be this sloppy in a million years. Whacking Dunking here is pointless because, IMO, he’s on ice for a reason..


  169. - ihpsdm - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:41 pm:

    I hope Dunkin is enjoying the US Open.


  170. - Just saying - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:41 pm:

    Dunkin had to go to Neiman Marcus to get a new suit


  171. - ihpsdm - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:43 pm:

    Can someone tell me how Dunkin was counted as Present in the roll call when he’s not in Springfield?


  172. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:43 pm:

    Finally common sense!


  173. - CharlieKratos - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:43 pm:

    Rauner will lighten the insurance rate increases and double down on the union busting language, then present that as a final offer. Union members, just happy to have silver or gold insurance packages will vote to accept, despite signing the union death warrant.


  174. - Dirty Red - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:45 pm:

    DONE-kin?


  175. - Soccermom - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:46 pm:

    At least he’s consistent. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/13/ken-dunkin-state-rep-who_n_157461.html


  176. - ihpsdm - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:46 pm:

    As a state Worker, I’m already preparing for the worst. Thank God I never got married or had any kids. I can move wherever I want to, but I can’t say the same for a lot of my coworkers. There just aren’t many other opportunities for jobs here in Springfield.


  177. - Team Sleep - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:46 pm:

    Chicagonk - he still has a primary opponent who was likely recruited by Senate GOP leadership and the Governor’s staff. He has a lot to keep him up at night.


  178. - Mama - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:46 pm:

    ++Would you simply fold and take what is offered?++
    Honeybear, I do not believe you have a choice, because Rauner will not change his mind about ending collective bargaining. He wants total control of the State.


  179. - Team Sleep - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:48 pm:

    I also think that McCann will eventually get kicked out of the Senate GOP Caucus. Just a hunch.


  180. - A guy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:48 pm:

    ===Unless Madigan finds that 71st vote,===

    Willy, serious question to you. Is it possible that he was looking for a few more than the 71st? Having a guy suddenly awol takes the focus off of what the number might have really been. May be that he was only at 67?


  181. - nixit71 - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:49 pm:

    ==this dunkin jerk was paid off to do this is the word around the state.==

    AFSCME IL Council 31
    $2,000.00
    6/26/2015
    Transfer In
    Friends of Ken Dunkin


  182. - Mouthy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:50 pm:

    It’s over when they adjourn for the week without a vote. Until that time anythings possible. I can’t believe that Durkin would do something like this and leave his district and state office workers to take the verbal shellacking they are no doubt taking at the hour. Nobody could be that cowardly..


  183. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:51 pm:

    If Poe stays against Afscme, he just lost my vote.


  184. - Terp - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:51 pm:

    Good new 1%’s, more money coming your way!


  185. - Just Saying .... - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:51 pm:

    Ducking a vote by leaving the state is not Profiles in Courage. Standing among your peers and voting for your beliefs and your district is. The last time a House Goper was truly deserving of such an award was when a young Rep. Lee Daniels stood up and voted for Redman for Speaker. Poe’s vote tomorrow would be equally deserving in fighting the good fight for All State workers! Go for it Raymond!


  186. - Honeybear - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:52 pm:

    Thank you for responding OW, I appreciate it. But you didn’t answer my question. Would you just accept what Rauner offers instead of striking if it were your family?


  187. - Team Sleep - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:53 pm:

    Nixit - how many pocket squares could be purchased with that donation?!


  188. - @MisterJayEm - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:54 pm:

    Is it possible that he was looking for a few more than the 71st? Having a guy suddenly awol takes the focus off of what the number might have really been. May be that he was only at 67?

    I can’t decide if this is baseless conspiracy-mongering or Occam’s Razor.

    – MrJM


  189. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:55 pm:

    - A Guy -,

    You’d have to ask the 4 Dems that were missing on the first vote.

    I was first in the “camp” the Speaker might even be “heavy” one, if Poe decided to vote to override, or another one or two I will keep to myself that could’ve flipped.

    By the time the Opening Prayer was over, tough to say where the noses were to 71.

    Strange day, to say the least.


  190. - Formerly Known As... - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:55 pm:

    ==Sam McCann probably feels pretty good about his vote right now.==

    @Chicagonk +1


  191. - U-Turn Agenda Victim - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:56 pm:

    Duncan the fake Democrat has always been for sale and needs to be slated for demise in the next primary. And I’ve never seen a leg leader become such an owned and operated gubernatorial puppet as Durkin. It’s embarrassing to watch.


  192. - ihpsdm - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:56 pm:

    Sorry if this was answered in one of the hundreds of comments above, but does anyone know why Dunkin was counted as Present during the roll call? Was Ben Stein conducting roll call?

    Buehler? Buehler? Buehler? Buehler?


  193. - Mama - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:57 pm:

    ++- ihpsdm - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:43 pm:

    Can someone tell me how Dunkin was counted as Present in the roll call when he’s not in Springfield?++
    Rich, this is a great question. Is this normal?


  194. - CharlieKratos - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:58 pm:

    Honeybear, I think you’re focusing on the wrong aspect of the contract to be so upset about. Insurance going up like that would suck bad. However, giving away bumping rights and other union bargaining rights is the big picture. The union can always negotiate a better insurance plan in 4 years, but with some of those protections taken away, tier 1 employees are going to be gone and anyone who doesn’t tow the Raunerite line will be gone as well. Everton might as well be “merit comp”. Ask merit comp workers how well that’s been working out for them for the last 10 years.


  195. - The Historian - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:59 pm:

    I too was struck by A Guy’s description of “the bi-polar nature of AFSCME”….That echoes….


  196. - Stones - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:00 pm:

    For those who say Dunkin was courageous to defy the Speaker I respectfully disagree. Courageous would have been to show up and vote - not hide out in NY.

    And I would also like to know who pushed his button “present” if he’s posting on social media from his kid’s tennis event.


  197. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:00 pm:

    - Honeybear -

    I try to answer your question in the abstract.

    Why?

    It’s your family, not mine. With a great deal of respect and humility to your own personal situation, I can’t in good conscious tell you life decisions with a keyboard and a computer screen.

    Every family is different. Not breaking any news there. My options and my family options can be very different than yours, in the both good or bad for me.

    All I would do; I’d see with eyes open. Tangible, real facts sway me more than deciding on a glass and the liquid’s “half” status.


  198. - Team Sleep - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:00 pm:

    JayEm - maybe it’s a little bit of both. Since we never really “know” what the Speaker’s thinking or what happened leading up to such a situation, we may never find out.

    This should’ve been done last week. Waiting until the last minute is inefficient and it’s burned our state in the past.


  199. - crazybleedingheart - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:01 pm:

    MrJM, I think Madigan has as many votes on this as he wants to have. The question is whether or not he tailored the jacket Dunkin is wearing.

    If he wants to (further) punish Dunkin, yes.

    If he wants to court him badly enough, no, and Dunkin will return.

    Does anyone feel confident that Madigan actually wants to put all of his people on this to override the veto?

    Bueller??


  200. - dnr for two - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:02 pm:

    Think of it like a casino: the House always wins.


  201. - Union Man - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:03 pm:

    I refer to Dunkin as derelict in his duty and it gets deleted, but someone calls the Rep “No balls Dunkin” and it stays? I get it’s Rich’s blog. Just wish I knew what offends and what doesn’t.


  202. - nixit71 - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:03 pm:

    ==how many pocket squares could be purchased with that donation?!==

    You need to use the AFSCME currency conversion table: 83 convention bags.


  203. - Anon - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:04 pm:

    I doubt it’s fair to Blame Dunkin. Lets’ be honest: there’s 8-10 Dems relieved this thing isn’t happening. Madigan wouldn’t let one guy blow this up - If Dunkin were the only holdout, Madigan would have offered him a deal. Most likely, Madigan only has 65 votes… maybe fewer.


  204. - Mouthy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:05 pm:

    ==- Just Saying …. - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 3:51 pm:

    Ducking a vote by leaving the state is not Profiles in Courage. Standing among your peers and voting for your beliefs and your district is. The last time a House Goper was truly deserving of such an award was when a young Rep. Lee Daniels stood up and voted for Redman for Speaker. Poe’s vote tomorrow would be equally deserving in fighting the good fight for All State workers! Go for it Raymond!==

    I was a page at the time and even though Daniels was in the same district at Redmond (3 members at the time) many said he would be finished. It took (memory is weak on the number) about 79 votes for that to happen after Clyde Choate was abandoned by Chicago in that Speakership fight. Clyde’s group, the embattled 17, never gave up..


  205. - Rod - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:05 pm:

    For the vote on overriding HB 3507 - the DCFS bill Ken Dunkin was listed in the roll call as absent, for the override of HB1 he was listed in the roll call as absent. Which roll call shows him as voting present?


  206. - Team Sleep - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:06 pm:

    Honeybear - if I were in your shoes, I wouldn’t vote to strike.

    My dad’s company went through a huge strike 15 years ago. It was a mess. And, worst of all, they struck through the holiday season. This would be along a similar timeframe.

    I think Charlie Kratos is right. I think the healthcare offer won’t be as bad as expected. He will likely not be as “kind” on issues such as OT, vacation payouts, state days off, etc.

    I wonder if the offers were floated because of SB 1229. Perhaps the Governor wanted a shot across the bow and copped an attitude because of his disagreement with the bill and the perceived slight.

    If this does indeed fail, then maybe the offer will soften a bit and maybe both sides will get down to business.


  207. - TROOPER - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:07 pm:

    OSWEGO WILLY, been watching you for a while now…You are a thoughtful poster here most of the time.

    Can you explain to me why you feel a strike will lead to the downfall of afscme? I have tried to read between the lines, but I am not getting your angle.
    Are you saying Rauner will fire them( ala Reagan), or the public backlash would be so severe?????…..


  208. - Formerly Known As... - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:08 pm:

    ==but does anyone know why Dunkin was counted as Present during the roll call?==

    Fraud? An intentional mis-tally by the Speaker while working on another vote or two?

    ==We have the votes. Everyone is here. Why don’t you join us, Mr Poe? The result is a given. Make it bipartisan.==


  209. - OneMan - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:09 pm:

    It still cracks me up the title of the bill is INTERSTATE MEDICAL LICENSURE

    Also love how his district is drawn.


  210. - Union Man - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:09 pm:

    Well, now the earlier posts are back. I stand corrected.


  211. - MurMan - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:11 pm:

    $2000 campaign contribution means nothing if you plan on taking a high paying private sector gig instead of running again. I’m not saying that is what happened. But that is the speculation alluded to when people say Dunkin was paid off


  212. - Mouthy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:12 pm:

    It used to be if they’d leave their key in the voting machine a seatmate would turn it on and vote present for an absent member. I can remember times when the board indicated a full house with only a half dozen members in the
    chamber. They do it so they’ll get their per diem. Imagine what it was like before they had keys..


  213. - downstate commissioner - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:13 pm:

    Been away from the computer all day-tuned in here to see what happened-Surprise!! NOTHING.
    Will be interesting to see what tomorrow brings- but I will say that if Madigan doesn’t call the bill, he will be the big loser;he might as well lock the door and hand the keys to Rauner….


  214. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:13 pm:

    At the end of the day, the bottom line is… if you can be out of town while knowing the importance of this session, you have chosen the consequences of your actions.
    There is absolutely NO WAY that person would ever get another vote from me.


  215. - burbanite - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:14 pm:

    Not happy about the DCFS vote either. Anyone know how I can find who voted what? Thanks


  216. - Stones - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:15 pm:

    Mouthy -

    They always had keys. The old machines (prior to electronic voting) had a cover that locked over the switch to insure it wouldn’t be tampered with.


  217. - Formerly Known As... - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:16 pm:

    Maybe Dunkin should ==lose== his mobile phone and adopt the Madigan approach to communications?


  218. - DuPage Bard - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:17 pm:

    There is still tomorrow correct?


  219. - NewWestSuburbanGOP'er - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:19 pm:

    Representative Ives voice makes me think of fingernails on a chalkboard.


  220. - 47th Ward - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:20 pm:

    ===May be that he was only at 67?===

    Maybe. Without Dunkin, assuming he’d be 71, AFSCME gets a few more hours to scour the building and press a few HGOPs very hard to vote against Rauner. Those are going to be some very unpleasant meetings for several HGOPs.

    Maybe that’s Madigan’s way of making lemonade from the huge lemon Dunkin gave him.


  221. - Enviro - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:20 pm:

    Yes. There is still tomorrow, so there is still hope.


  222. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:20 pm:

    Dunkin isn’t coming back in the window.

    If he was, someone by 4 pm today would’ve said so.

    Leader Durkin “…and the Owls he controls…” aren’t going to go against their Leader *cough* Rauner *cough*, so that’s that, and there’s nothin’ AFSCME can do about it.


  223. - COPN - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:20 pm:

    burbanite,

    If by DCFS vote you’re referring to the failed veto ovverride vote today on HB3507, then:

    http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/votehistory/99/house/09900HB3507_09022015_005000M.pdf


  224. - OneMan - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:21 pm:

    Honeybear –

    Well my dad did strike, 3 times when I was a kid. The thing was at the time (and to some degree folks who do what he did at the time still do) car mechanics at car dealerships had some leverage.

    Cars needed to be fixed and there were not enough non-union qualified guys to do the job.

    The bottom line is, if you think you have the leverage, strike. If you don’t then do so at your own risk.

    How will people react when you are striking to keep benefits lots of people don’t have anymore. I honestly don’t know the answer to that anymore.

    My dad always said when Regan fired the PATCO strikers and there wasn’t a national strike the next day was the begging of the end for labor unions in this country.


  225. - Mama - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:21 pm:

    I’m betting Madigan can pull a rabbit out of his hat for the 71st vote before the sunsets tomorrow.


  226. - Formerly Known As... - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:25 pm:

    Jack Franks and others send their regards, Mr Dunkin.


  227. - Mouthy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:25 pm:

    - Stones - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:15 pm:

    I remember a member or two putting together bill book posts long enough to reach over several rows to hit present buttons on roll call votes. It might have been that they were able to turn the machine on and take out the key leaving the machine in the on position. I also remember anger at someone voting yes on a bill for someone else and getting in trouble because it was something they didn’t want to vote on. Those were the days the’d stop the clock at midnight on June 30th..


  228. - Johnnie F. - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:25 pm:

    Well, I hope it least gets called for a vote at some point before it expires.


  229. - anon - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:26 pm:

    dusts off his resume


  230. - David Starrett - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:28 pm:

    I don’t think this is over yet. Im not sure what too-clever-by-half game Dunkin is playing with the Speaker and Governor, but I’m guessing that we’ll see either a budget deal or SB1229 on postponed consideration with 70 votes by the end of the evening.


  231. - 47th Ward - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:28 pm:

    ===Well, I hope it least gets called for a vote at some point before it expires.===

    Me too!


  232. - Team Sleep - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:28 pm:

    FKA - or perhaps Rep. Dunkin should just buy an Apple?!


  233. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:30 pm:

    Am I correct that the vote could still be called tomorrow /not that there’s much chance now


  234. - the Cardinal - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:31 pm:

    The sun will still rise in the East and set in the West with or without KD in the Capitol (or anyone else for that matter). The winds of change are begining to blow. All the side shows are not doing anything to get on with the peoples business. Pass a State budget and lets move on.


  235. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:33 pm:

    - 1 term bruce -,

    Thanks for adding to the discussion, lol


  236. - Formerly Known As... - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:34 pm:

    From Tribune @ 4:00

    ==Despite predictions from Madigan that he had enough support for an override, at least two Democrats said they remained undecided as late as Tuesday. Supporters had hoped to pick up votes from among a handful of Republicans who represent districts with a strong labor presence, but Rauner and House Republican leader Jim Durkin of Western Springs have pushed for a united front against an override.==

    I suspect Rep Dunkin would have returned if Speaker Madigan actually had the votes.


  237. - Rhino Slider - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:35 pm:

    I don’t really have anything new to add to the conversation, but the comments are now over 200 (100 w/o the nutcase from Oswego). It is interesting to see the anger for and against AFSCME.


  238. - Strangerthings - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:37 pm:

    The house had 15 days from the time the Senate voted for the override. So if my math is right that puts it as being either tomorrow or friday. Pretty sure it is tomorrow


  239. - nona - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:38 pm:

    There is a reason Dunkin is the only rep to get tbe Century Club trophy at least three times. Could be more by now.


  240. - Spi Spy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:39 pm:

    The story here in town is that Poe is going to retire. He will file for Rep this Fall. Then, after filing closes and there is a vacancy in nomination, the local GOP will put in a replacement on the ballot. Who that replacement will be has a lot to do with Poe’s voting stance today…


  241. - Formerly Known As... - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:42 pm:

    Also from the Trib

    ==Dunkin’s absence was a reminder of one of the most awkward moments in the state legislative career of President Barack Obama. == As a battle over the legislation stalemated, Obama and his family flew to Hawaii for Christmas. When lawmakers were called back into session Dec. 29 to vote on a compromise proposed by then-Gov. George Ryan, Obama remained in Hawaii. Ryan thought he had the votes to pass it, including Obama’s. But when Ryan offered to send a state plane to get him for the vote, Obama’s staff refused to say where he was. The deal narrowly failed, and Obama later said his young daughter was ill and he couldn’t leave her to travel to Springfield.==

    Dunkin 4 Prez? /s


  242. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:42 pm:

    - Rhino Slider -

    Saying you have nothing to add really says it all.


  243. - Keyser Soze - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:43 pm:

    Rep. Dunkin’s is a safe Democrat seat. He wouldn’t have been hurt either way.


  244. - Honeybear - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:45 pm:

    Thank you Oswego Willy, thank you team sleep for responding. I wasn’t trying to play gotcha. I was honestly soliciting opinion from those I respect. I appreciate the offering of personal experience with your father over the holidays. My spouse and I are highly educated (at top 10 universities although, you can’t tell with me because of the spelling mistakes) but we barely survived the great recession. We finally found safety in employment with the state. This is so traumatic because it revives the fear of lean times again. The helplessness that it creates. As for as striking, I only have a single vote. If the vote approves a strike, then I go. I am a steward. I am a picket captain. I am a trained labor activist. I have also been a US Navy officer and I accept the responsibility and sacrifice that duty demands. I already chose to go down fighting if called to do so. I will not cross the picket. But I am despondant about my fellow public servants who will suffer. Rauner will not be reasonable. He only modified because of SB 1229. He will go back to 500% more on healthcare. The choice for public servants is this, stand together and fight with a strike, shut down state government, and most likely look for another job, or work a difficult job for less and less, helpless, losing more and more only to be layed off because of privatization, then looking for a job. I choose to fight back rather than to be a helpless victim. I would still appreciate your prayers for me, my family, and all those who about to be thrown into the maw.


  245. - Wensicia - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:45 pm:

    ==I suspect Rep Dunkin would have returned if Speaker Madigan actually had the votes.==

    He’s the sole reason Madigan doesn’t have the votes. Per ABC7 news, he’s hiding out in NYC and says he has problems with the bill and won’t be coming back in time. My question, is Rauner funding this out of state trip?


  246. - Mason born - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:46 pm:

    Rhino

    Oswego Willy is far from a nutcase. He is telling you how ge sees it. As far as I know willy was more inclined to support the override than the Gov.

    Let me put his point in a diferent perspective to paraphrase if labor doesn’t hang together they will surely hang seperately. Leading up to this they did not hang together. The only chance to get this is for you as a AFSCME member to go and round up some R votes. Meanwhile Durkin and Rauner are going to publicly be hammering those same votes.

    Cuss willy all you like but he is correct. Today’s loss is bad as it will embolden Rauner that he is winning.

    Rich

    Could you add the year to the month on rhe QoD at this point I think October ‘16.


  247. - tired of politics - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:51 pm:

    Honeybear,
    I admire our courage. I will go down fighting with you if we vote to strike.


  248. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:52 pm:

    I started to make this comment by saying with all due respect to Rep. Dunkin, but that’s not really appropriate because at this point I don’t believe he deserves respect. I’ve hounded the Republicans during this session for lacking guts to vote anything but present on most things. I’ll now hound Rep. Dunkin on his cowardly act of failing to even show up and have the courage to vote one way or the other. I have a preference but I would at least respect the man if he actually showed up to vote. The Representative acted a little disgracefully today in my opinion.


  249. - burbanite - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:52 pm:

    Thanks COPN!


  250. - NewWestSuburbanGOP'er - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:52 pm:

    SB570

    70 yea 8 nay 30 present

    What the heck? What is with the “present” votes?


  251. - AC - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:54 pm:

    OW, thanks for the response, a lot of union folks are in a tough spot.

    Honeybear, hang in there, this isn’t done, and you’re not alone in this struggle.


  252. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:54 pm:

    - Honeybear -,

    It’s the members like you and your wife I worry about the most. You have tried to be thoughtful and passionate and that mix is tough to reconcile when talking about families.

    I wish you well, and hope for you too.

    (Tips cap to - Mason born -)


  253. - tired of politics - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:59 pm:

    Honeybear,
    Sorry, that should have said your courage.


  254. - Mason born - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 4:59 pm:

    Honeybear

    There are some things I think the union can do that will help. Negotiate as long as you can even if it’s 2 week tolling agreements. Don’t take a strike vote until Rauner has declared impasse and imposed last offer. If you take a preemptive vote and it fails you will give the Gov. carte blanch. Finally If It goes to a strike the real battle will be In public opinion make yourself look as reasonable as possibke. Personally I’d have the comittee prepare something as close as possible to the Teamsters deal as a final offer. If you offer what appears to be the deal he took with everone else you look more reasonable.

    If as we expect Rauner wants a strike then every paycheck you all receive before hand is a win.


  255. - NewWestSuburbanGOP'er - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:00 pm:

    Here we go….. SB 1229


  256. - burbanite - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:00 pm:

    Childcare lost by one vote too.


  257. - yo - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:00 pm:

    SB 1229 up on board now fyi


  258. - Anon - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:01 pm:

    its being called now!!!


  259. - Politix - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:05 pm:

    I have a hard time understanding how this could have happened. What an incredible lack of respect, integrity and honor by Rep. Durkin. Has this not been discussed ad nauseum for the past two weeks? Did he not anticipate this? Was his absence on purpose? Is this payback for the black caucus’s complaints about minority hiring? Did Madigan not know he wouldn’t be in town? Why did Steve say this week that they expected to have the numbers?

    I know the week’s not over but I do find it curious.


  260. - Formerly Known As... - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:06 pm:

    ==He’s the sole reason Madigan doesn’t have the votes.==

    That is what I also thought, but Madigan usually would find a way to get Dunkin back if he had the other 70 votes. With at least two Dems still undecided late yesterday, perhaps Dunkin offered to return if they had 70 votes and Madigan told him to stay?

    Whether this was a deal with Rauner, Madigan not having the votes, or Dunkin settling a score with Madigan, we will see.


  261. - efudd - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:07 pm:

    I don’t have a horse in this race, but it appears Dunkin was the only Dem who didn’t possess the giblets to show up to vote, yea or nay.
    And there is concern over the voter turn-out in this nation?
    This is why pols have the reps they do, they earned them.


  262. - NewWestSuburbanGOP'er - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:07 pm:

    Are you kidding me Leader Durkin?


  263. - Formerly Known As... - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:11 pm:

    Fire up the live feed! The SB1229 circus is back for round 2.


  264. - Snucka - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:14 pm:

    Very strange. Madigan usually doesn’t allow votes that he knows he will lose. I haven’t yet figured out why he wants to publicly lose a huge showdown with the Governor.


  265. - NewWestSuburbanGOP'er - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:14 pm:

    Yes, Leader Durkin, I can answer that question.

    The GOP in Congress have been doing this to President Obama for both of his terms


  266. - Snucka - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:15 pm:

    Then again, there hasn’t been a vote yet. Could be pulled at any time.


  267. - nixit71 - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:16 pm:

    Live feed here: http://www.ilga.gov/house/audvid.asp#


  268. - Wensicia - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:16 pm:

    ==Very strange. Madigan usually doesn’t allow votes that he knows he will lose.==

    Why not get every Rauner Republican on record as anti-labor?


  269. - Michelle Flaherty - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:16 pm:

    Snucka, if you’re gonna lose the battle you want the roll call for the war.


  270. - CB - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:17 pm:

    they could have found a more informed sponsor


  271. - ??? - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:17 pm:

    The sponsor of the bill sure doesn’t sound very prepared for Rep. Durkin’s questions. Every time Durkin asks a question, there is a long pause as the sponsor has to turn to his staff to feed him an answer. Sheesh.


  272. - ??? - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:18 pm:

    CB, my thoughts exactly, you beat me to it.


  273. - Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:19 pm:

    I thought 71 Democratic votes was a real tough climb but would be profoundly disappointed if there will be no Republican votes by tomorrow. If there will be none, does that mean it’s the end of the relationship between the ILGOP and labor in Illinois, or will this cause severe damage?


  274. - the Cardinal - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:21 pm:

    Ken DUNKIN not Jim DURKIN …Put down your beer glass and put on your on your reading glasses. This ought to be good political theater with or with out Ken Dunkin.


  275. - Theo's Houseboy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:22 pm:

    This back and forth is a massive eyeroll.


  276. - Formerpol - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:22 pm:

    Rep. Dunkin is a very bright and creative legislator.. I suspect that his absence was arranged so Madigan would not have to call the bill.
    Too many of his caucus did not want a vote. And he can say to labor, “I tried”. Madigan now will not call the override.


  277. - ihpsdm - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:23 pm:

    Honeybear, I will pray for you and I will join you on the picket line, if it comes to that. I would sooner find another job than cross a picket line.


  278. - sal-says - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:25 pm:

    A 1%’ers win?
    Maybe.

    More likely a big loss for all IL citizens.
    IL will rue this day, sooner or later. As paychecks deteriorate. Remember who brought this to us.

    And all because the last one was a doofus.


  279. - LINK - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:25 pm:

    Oswego at 4:54′

    To me, that’s what is lost in all of this - is the human aspect.

    Most here talk about Rainer wins, Madigans wins, Republicans, Democrats, AFSCME losses, Union losses, or the like but when it come down to it, it’s about the individuals and not the organizations.

    It is said the “Unions” caused this to happen when 40% of the “individuals” voted against Quinn and for Rauner, so they are now reaping what they sowed.

    That only matters to those who like it Black or White, he wins or he losses. Seldom do many here and elsewhere talk about the impact on the individuals but focus on the organization that they are a member of by virtue of the position they are employed - and try to understand that there are individuals who are currently working in their position not because it’s a Union or Non-Union position but because they either needed a job OR are in this type of employment because they chose that line of work and the State of Illinois offered that type of employment.

    Again, I would venture a guess that not everyone who is an AFSCME member NOW chose their position solely based on that aspect. I am having a difficult time articulating my thoughts, especially when all I can think of to compare it to is that scene in American Graffitee where the one boy is on all fours and the elderly couple stand to the side saying someone ought to do something but not offering assistance…

    Anyway, Oswego, I’m not trying to point a finger at you or anyone else here, but in my quaint way trying to make sure people don’t forget about the thousands of people employed by the State of Illinois who will suffer under this one term Governor who might have been working the position - Union or not - that will suffer from Rauners overt attacks on the individuals by virtue of their affiliation.


  280. - gruntled employee - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:26 pm:

    time for retirement papers to be filed


  281. - Snucka - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:26 pm:

    Good point, Michelle. Listening to Durkin, maybe MJM is hoping that just ONE Republican will have the courage to defy Leader Rauner’s orders.


  282. - NewWestSuburbanGOP'er - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:27 pm:

    @Grandson of Man 5:19pm

    I think it will be the end of ILGOP and Labor’s relationship.


  283. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:27 pm:

    ===I suspect that his absence was arranged so Madigan would not have to call the bill.
    Too many of his caucus did not want a vote. And he can say to labor, “I tried”. Madigan now will not call the override.===

    Except they are going to vote…

    Please, pretend to keep up.

    ===…if you’re gonna lose the battle you want the roll call for the war.===

    Yep.


  284. - ??? - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:27 pm:

    Formerpol, it has been called. They are debating it now and have been for at least the last 15 minutes.


  285. - Skirmisher - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:28 pm:

    So if some Republicans don’t cave to union pressure we can quit with the theatre and get on with coming up with a realistic contract. Rauner’s record indicates he is a bit more open to compromise than his rhetoric suggests. We will now see if that is indeed the case and if AFSCME is also in a compromising frame of mind.


  286. - Anon - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:31 pm:

    I heard the Republicans Caucused so their members can’t support the override. This deprives Poe and others of a chance to vote for their constituents - Union Members. Round goes to the Governor


  287. - Archiesmom - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:32 pm:

    Guess this is just to put Republicans on record for next year. Terrific.


  288. - Michelle Flaherty - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:33 pm:

    I love it when Jim Durkin asks a question when he knows the answer all along. Wow! He is inspiring. No wonder he’s a super minority leader.


  289. - Louis G. Atsaves - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:35 pm:

    Masterful questioning by Minority Leader Durkin. All of the current certified Arbitrators were so appointed by Blagojevich and Quinn. No definition of “impass” under the vetoed statute. Clearly setting up a legislative record so that the case can be taken to Court if the override is successful. Durkin so much as said so.

    If overridden, effective immediately. Poor Rep. Smiddy is taking a beating right now. I hope his side of the aisle appreciates the beating he is taking on their behalf.


  290. - Michelle Flaherty - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:35 pm:

    So Jim Durkin’s going to let unelected editorial boards set state policy. C’mon man.


  291. - steve schnorf - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:35 pm:

    AFSCME put all their eggs in this basket. Let’s see if the sponsor ends up putting it on postponed consideration to let the unions go vote hunting with a roll call in hand. I have learned this year that I’m not a master strategist, so I have no idea. I do suspect this bill and its votes may be looked back on like the Paul Powell speakership, a poly sci case study for the books.


  292. - Formerly Known As... - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:36 pm:

    ==Am I to just accept whatever Rauner gives to me and my family?==

    @Honeybear - You should not, just as Rauner should not just accept any bad deal Madigan tries forcing on him.

    As long as your family is fine, then you should not just accept any bad deal. This should be a negotiation, not an arbitration, between both sides until compromising on a fair deal.


  293. - wow - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:38 pm:

    yes, - Michelle Flaherty
    we might as well let the editorial boards decide our state budget /s


  294. - Kathryn - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:38 pm:

    Couldn’t the members wanting to override it get someone better to speak on their behalf. This guy Smiddy is embarrassing. doesn’t know any of the answers to Durkins questions.


  295. - Mama - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:39 pm:

    Will there be a vote on SB1229 tonight?


  296. - Frank Ambrose - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:41 pm:

    I don’t see why arbitration is seen as a bad thing. As a former cop in Illinois we were mandated to have binding arbitration if negotiations failed. If it got to binding arbitration both sides submitted their last best offer. The most reasonable, realistic submission is what the arbitrator chose. Those out in left field stayed there. Just one more way to bring reality to negotiations.


  297. - burbanite - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:45 pm:

    Sit down and be quiet owlman.


  298. - GlimmerGirl - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:47 pm:

    Dunkin DoNUTS.


  299. - Formerly Known As... - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:48 pm:

    ==Guess this is just to put Republicans on record for next year.==

    It also gives Rauner and the public a chance to find out how strong the alleged ==corrupt bargain== really is.

    With so much of the media and public opposing SB1229, some Dems may not want a roll call either.


  300. - SoILL - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:49 pm:

    Why does this guy support a bill if he isn’t able to answer the questions about it. We should have found a better legislator to sponsor SB 1229


  301. - Anon - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:49 pm:

    Strike strike strike. Here it comes. Rauner will force it by cont just ridiculous demands.


  302. - Formerly Known As... - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:50 pm:

    As others have commented, Smiddy is not doing well.

    Ugh.


  303. - Alskid - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:50 pm:

    Not sure what all the fuss is about. In the private sector I fight for every dollar myself. If I dont think its fair, I leave. I keep my skills sharp so that I have leverage. Rauner will probably lowball the union. Thats just how the world works.


  304. - Fr. Murphy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:50 pm:

    Kathryn - my feelings, too. He seems so in over his head - can’t someone bail him out who is more knowledgeable about the ins and outs of the Bill?


  305. - Anon - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:52 pm:

    Lowballing is not even in the ballpark Alskid. Rauner wants 500 percent increase in insurance


  306. - Rahm's Parking Meter - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:55 pm:

    It is time to primary and beat Ken Dunkin. I don’t care if he is the guy of a few pols. I am not even a union guy but this man is a disgrace to the Democratic Party and the State of Illinois.
    PRIMARY! PRIMARY!


  307. - Archiesmom - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 5:58 pm:

    Just looked at Dunkin’s D-2 filings. Loads of union donations. At least there used to be….


  308. - Peoria Guy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:00 pm:

    Common sense prevails


  309. - Alskid - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:03 pm:

    500%…Ok, than walk. Its just business. If Jewel started charging 500% more for milk, than Id drive to Marianos. If my employer dropped my health coverage, I would go to LinkedIn and talk with some connections that I maintain in my industry.


  310. - Pot calling kettle - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:04 pm:

    Dunkin’s absence has also hurt his own caucus (the failure to override SB 570). I wonder how that will play…


  311. - Norseman - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:04 pm:

    === natasha korecki
    @natashakorecki
    Rep. Sente says if Illinois Policy Institute is non-partisan then we need a new definition of the phrase in dictionary. Gets applause ===

    Talking about an understatement!!!


  312. - The Dude Abides - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:04 pm:

    It says on his website that Dunkin focuses on legislation that raises the quality of life for working families. He definitely has some misplaced priorities unless this is all a game and Madigan told him not to worry about being present.

    http://www.repkendunkin.com/about_ken.htm


  313. - GraduatedCollegeStudent - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:05 pm:

    ===As long as your family is fine, then you should not just accept any bad deal. This should be a negotiation, not an arbitration, between both sides until compromising on a fair deal. ===

    And that is excellent in theory. Now let’s come to the practice of what Rauner is demanding. Of course, Rauner also doesn’t want a deal.


  314. - burbanite - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:08 pm:

    - Pot calling kettle - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:04 pm:

    Dunkin’s absence has also hurt his own caucus (the failure to override SB 570). I wonder how that will play… I am thinking not so well.


  315. - Mama - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:09 pm:

    ++ He definitely has some misplaced priorities unless this is all a game and Madigan told him not to worry about being present.++
    There is no way Madigan would tell Dunkin that.


  316. - AC - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:09 pm:

    Deliberately misunderstanding the issues seems to be the agreed upon strategy for the legislators Rauner controls and their line of questioning on SB1229.


  317. - dupage progressive - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:10 pm:

    Confused… If they dont have votes, why would they call it? Did they find a vote on R side??


  318. - Sue - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:11 pm:

    Blah,blah,blah–so AFCSME now has to live with the same public bargaining law every other Illinois public sector has had to live with since Thompson signed the bill into existence. This whole situation should never have been allowed to get started in the first place. Passing the law was proof positive of the hold Unions have on the State Democratic Party which is one of the main reasons 53 % of us voted for Rauner


  319. - Mac - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:11 pm:

    Dupage, they want a record of those who never want labor support again.


  320. - tired of politics - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:12 pm:

    It’s not going to be about healthcare. Seniority and layoff language is what Rauner wants.


  321. - Mama - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:13 pm:

    ++public opposing SB1229++
    I find this hard to believe.


  322. - Mac - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:14 pm:

    Sue… except for every other Union that is allowed to live under different rules. But let’s forget about fire and police.


  323. - Norseman - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:14 pm:

    This vote will sour the atmosphere. Harris, where the heck have you been. Rauner and his minions have been souring the atmosphere since the beginning of his term.


  324. - anonlurker - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:17 pm:

    ==which is one of the main reasons 53 % of us voted for Rauner== I seriously doubt that you speak for that entire 53%
    ==Blah,blah,blah== To this, I will agree.


  325. - Alskid - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:19 pm:

    Cmon. Again, private sector guy here. My “layoff langugae” is essentially “you could be fired for just about anything that federal law doesnt prohibit”. I have to prove my worth every single day or Im gone.


  326. - Illinoisvoter - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:19 pm:

    Anyone know if they can close for the day without
    taking a vote and keep the bill open for tomorrow?


  327. - Fed up with Rauner - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:20 pm:

    Thanks for helping to throw state workers under Brucie’s bus Dunkin!


  328. - A Jack - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:23 pm:

    Breen, how much did Rauner give you?


  329. - tired of politics - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:24 pm:

    Sue,
    I’m glad you know the main reason why Illinois residents voted for Rauner. Why did Illinois residents vote for House and Senate Democrats?


  330. - Shanks - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:24 pm:

    Typical Illinois politician. A “business trip” is that what he calls it?! I thought his job was a representative for Illinois.


  331. - Mac - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:25 pm:

    Tired of politics, don’t call them on their failed logic. It upsets them.


  332. - CrazyHorse - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:25 pm:

    To LINK @4:54

    One of the bests posts I have ever read on this site. I am among the many you are describing. I am a Teamster so I guess as of yesterday we have an agreement but we work hand in hand with AFSCME members and a strike will cripple our effectiveness at doing our jobs as well.

    Everyone can think back to a time when they didn’t know how they’d pay the mortgage and get the car fixed. Some are still in that position. I’m praying for those people.


  333. - A Jack - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:26 pm:

    Thank you Rep Bradley


  334. - the Cardinal - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:26 pm:

    Call the Vote …. It will get 68 or so so that some Ds can get cover….Then it will be.put on Postponed Consideration Then KD will ride in on his stallion and save the day. resounding tone I voted against it before I voted against it.


  335. - Blah - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:27 pm:

    Sandack just spilled a drink on his lap top. Karma is already striking him


  336. - AC - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:28 pm:

    It’s amazing hearing all the Republican support for collective bargaining, the right to strike and unions overall. I wonder if this means reductions to union rights for all public employees are off the table? After all, we wouldn’t want to change the process mid stream for local governments.


  337. - A guy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:29 pm:

    === A Jack - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:23 pm:

    Breen, how much did Rauner give you?===

    It’s sure a lot south of $300K+
    Looked it up. Looks like $4K. Nothing prior to this year that I can see.
    He’s very good on the floor.


  338. - Mason born - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:29 pm:

    Oswego Willy

    After reading Sandak’s Twitter posts calling him an owl is an insult to a fine animal. To call him what he is insults the noble donkey.


  339. - A guy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:30 pm:

    Tryon did a very effective job too.


  340. - wow - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:30 pm:

    again, if it has been written in a news-rag…it must be true /s


  341. - A Jack - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:30 pm:

    Rep Kay, the Teamsters agreement has nothing to do with continued negotiations.


  342. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:31 pm:

    Boy, Smiddy is not doing well with this.


  343. - Michelle Flaherty - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:32 pm:

    If this keeps going, Dunkin will be able to take a train back to Springfield and still make the vote


  344. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:32 pm:

    Sandack just continues to disappoint.

    I had high hopes for him.


  345. - Ian - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:33 pm:

    McAuliffe should vote with Madigan who has protected him for two decades.


  346. - AC - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:33 pm:

    Michelle, he’ll be able to walk back at this rate


  347. - A Jack - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:35 pm:

    Why do Republican’s want us to strike so badly?


  348. - burbanite - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:36 pm:

    Was that a threat? WTH? the valley of the shadow of death?


  349. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:37 pm:

    ===Why do Republican’s want us to strike so badly?===

    Because it will help in destroying collective bargaining beyond AFSCME…


  350. - Norseman - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:38 pm:

    After hearing the ludicrous arguments being presented by the likes of Kay, I’m so unhappy that this thing will fail. Oh great, another great oratory from Ives.


  351. - Norseman - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:41 pm:

    Mapes is sending Sandack a bill for making a mess at his desk. Plus, how much will my taxes increase because his sloppy drinking habits spilled all over a State computer?


  352. - Mac - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:44 pm:

    10 bucks says Dunkin is on I55 right now somewhere between Bloomington and Lincoln.


  353. - wow - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:45 pm:

    to: - Norseman -@ 6:41

    LOL, with this debate, I really needed that


  354. - DonaldTrump - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:46 pm:

    Madigans wants Rauner to take the heat and get the State in fiscal order so Lisa won’t have too. If he wanted Dunkin here for the vote he would have flown him in.
    As a union AFSCME is a joke. They look out for their honchos and not the rank and file. They will not strike - they will cave and keep collecting that dues money.


  355. - Union Man - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:46 pm:

    Madigan walked in and as the GOP who kept saying “Valley of the Shadow ” was ending his speech Madigan sat down, bored. He left a few minutes later…,


  356. - The Way I See It - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:47 pm:

    On the plus side, fewer tweets from Sandack. Very little in govt that can be handled credibly in 140 characters or less.


  357. - AC - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:47 pm:

    “Unelected arbitrators” “mid stream” ugh….save us!


  358. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:48 pm:

    We have a new comment record


  359. - Mama - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:48 pm:

    ++- Michelle Flaherty - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:32 pm:

    If this keeps going, Dunkin will be able to take a train back to Springfield and still make the vote.++ Thanks for the laugh.


  360. - A Jack - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:49 pm:

    Thank you Rep Welch.


  361. - Will - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:49 pm:

    The thing that irritates me the most is that in this state no senator or representative can vote for their constituents interests. You’re either for Madigan or for Rauner. The party leadership makes it clear as day that you will be run out of town if you don’t vote what the boss wants. I wish we could pass a law banning all political parties. This is ridiculous.


  362. - Mama - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:50 pm:

    Are the H-Rep. conducting an all night filibuster over SB1229?


  363. - ??? - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:51 pm:

    And…it fails.


  364. - CrazyHorse - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:52 pm:

    ==We have a new comment record ==

    Does that include deletions? LOL


  365. - Wensicia - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:53 pm:

    “Unelected arbitrators”

    Considering most of the budget problems are related to action or non-action by elected officials, is an unelected arbitrator a bad thing?


  366. - the Cardinal - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:53 pm:

    Who jumped ship ?


  367. - Formerpol - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:53 pm:

    Overide just failed with only 68 votes.


  368. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:54 pm:

    Huge win for Rauner


  369. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:56 pm:

    Franks was Present


  370. - Jack Straw - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:57 pm:

    MJM isn’t at all displeased.


  371. - anonlurker - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:57 pm:

    Fie on the present votes!
    OW…huge? For Rauner, personally, maybe.


  372. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:58 pm:

    Anthony and Bourne … Present?


  373. - Mouthy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:59 pm:

    Sad day for ASFCME and labor. Speaker said he had the votes. Who knows what will happen know.


  374. - metro east transplant - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:59 pm:

    Anyone surprised by Poe’s Present ?


  375. - David Starrett - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:59 pm:

    Now watch what happens to HB4104.


  376. - Theo's House Boy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 6:59 pm:

    Huge loss for the employees of this state. I’m already in Tier two and will not work the required 39 years to collect a pension, so no reason for me or any other young worker to stick around and pay 40% of my health insurance, something that doesnt compare with similar jobs with similar education levels. As soon as I can find a better job without political posturing involved, I’m out of this sinkhole.


  377. - AC - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:00 pm:

    Poe’s present vote will be a disappointment to the folks he represents.


  378. - Stones - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:00 pm:

    Have to call it like I see it - Madigan shouldn’t have guaranteed the override without having the votes. Once Rauner lowballs the Union in negotiations the AFSCME better be prepared for a potentially long and protracted strike. They also better be prepared to articulate their positions. This is shaping up as a very ugly battle.


  379. - metro east transplant - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:00 pm:

    Had I known that Kay was going to go off his rocker with the “walk through the valley…”
    I would have started a drinking game….geesh.


  380. - Formerly Known As... - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:00 pm:

    As said when the Tribune story went up reporting two Democrats remained undecided yesterday,

    ==I suspect Rep Dunkin would have returned if Speaker Madigan actually had the votes.==

    It appears Madigan was wrong when he claimed he had the votes.


  381. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:00 pm:

    Yep, huge.

    1) it failed.

    2) Rauner owns Durkin and the Caucus, not one defector.

    Huge.


  382. - Centennial - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:01 pm:

    This whole thing was… odd.


  383. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:01 pm:

    We need to remove the ability to vote present. We pay these clowns to represent us and have an opinion.


  384. - Mason born - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:01 pm:

    Willy

    See Sen McCann who chose constituents over party/gov. Of course he is now a target for a vote that had no future.


  385. - Norseman - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:03 pm:

    Madigan must be confident that he can protect all his yes votes. Otherwise, I don’t see why he would allow a vote where everyone who can read knew it was going to fail. Was it to show labor how gutless their alleged GOP supporters are? I don’t think a vote was needed to figure that out either.


  386. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:04 pm:

    Yeah,

    The McCann vote was never intended to be about the override.

    It’s intent is to try to embrace his district as others will walk away from him.


  387. - Troy Bien - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:04 pm:

    Honeybear, lots of people in Illinois suffered through harsh economic times during the recession and did not find their way into the life raft of a secure state job.
    If after all this you do not get automatic pay increases every year and have to pay what private sector workers have to pay for health insurance for you and your family, welcome to the world of the private sector employed taxpayers that fund state government.


  388. - nixit71 - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:04 pm:

    == Rauner wants 500 percent increase in insurance==

    CPS wants a 450% increase in what CTU teachers contribute to their own pensions, which only gets them to pay their full amount of their own retirement.

    Without any context, a 500% increase means nothing to the taxpayers asking to fund this. If 500% increase still gets you decent coverage (I haven’t seen the before/after analysis), be thankful you had that 500% advantage for decades to begin with.


  389. - Mama - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:05 pm:

    • Override failed 68-34. Here is vote. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CN77E_-WEAAhaS_.jpg


  390. - Mason born - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:05 pm:

    Will

    Please see the post on mccann.

    Willy

    Sorry force of habit.


  391. - anonlurker - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:05 pm:

    OW. Agree on point 2 only. With total respect always. no snark


  392. - Mama - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:06 pm:

    “Rep. Jack Franks, who had said he was undecided on #SB1229 , votes present.”
    Oh please…..


  393. - Wading in - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:07 pm:

    Reassessing my opinion of Raymond Poe this evening. Disappointing.


  394. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:07 pm:

    - Norseman -

    The only thing I can glean is that Madigan anticipates Rauner to gut AFSCME, and only that type of real pain will bring their members in line to vote against Rauner Republicans.

    Tonight?

    Rauner won, just like he won on Election Night.

    How that helps with no budget, and no contract yet, I dunno…


  395. - walker - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:08 pm:

    Maybe with this win Rauner will discuss settling on a budget. They were never that far apart on the numbers.


  396. - ihpsdm - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:08 pm:

    Not surprising, but disappointing. I hope they start negotiating.


  397. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:09 pm:

    The line in the sand has been drawn


  398. - ihpsdm - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:10 pm:

    I’m glad my letter to Poe made a difference. Can I have my 44 cents back?


  399. - anonlurker - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:10 pm:

    OW @7:07 agree. 2016 is up now.


  400. - CrazyHorse - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:12 pm:

    Besides Franks who was the other Dem that voted No or Present?


  401. - Mason born - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:15 pm:

    Nixit

    It is roughly paying more for a healthcare plan that will be a bronze plan or the legal minimum under aca. In other words an engineer, accoutant, phd etc. will get the same healthcare insurance as walmart greeters and McDonald’s employees at higher cost than those individuals.

    The lowest state plan nationwide is a gold and only one state offers that. Private sector employers of similar size typically offer gold level.

    My boss Is already expecting to poach at least 2 engineers from the state on benefits alone even offering the states low salary.


  402. - tired of politics - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:15 pm:

    Troy Bien,
    Thanks for supporting the race to the bottom. How much do you pay per month for healthcare? Most of my friends in the “private sector pay less than I do.


  403. - West Side Willie - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:16 pm:

    I intimidate in business. I intimidate in politics.Go ahead and cross me and I will destroy you. Play ball and I will make you rich.


  404. - Norseman - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:16 pm:

    Somebody send a designated driver to the Governor’s office. The frat boys are absolutely giddy and will likely celebrate a little too hard.


  405. - Pot calling kettle - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:17 pm:

    ==Rauner won==

    That remains to be seen. IF AFSCME strikes, it will become a media battle. However, there are now a boatload of Republican defenders on the record explaining how reasonable the Gov is going to be.

    IF (and this is a very big IF) the unions &/or Dems can get those statements out in the media, the Gov will undercut his support if there is a strike. A big IF, but there was also a danger to binding arbitration; you never know what the arbitrator will do…


  406. - dupage dan - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:18 pm:

    Who was it said it’s all about the math? Election math?

    Some votes aren’t for elections.

    Now if the union could just hold off on a strike vote for a few weeks, I simply won’t care. There are no statesmen in sight who can make the children play nice in the sandbox. I’m outta here.


  407. - Anon - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:18 pm:

    This makes me sick. Rauner gets to force a strike now. He will not fairly negotiate w the union.


  408. - Just C - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:19 pm:

    As a caveat, I have not read all of the above comments because I was at work, heading home, and making dinner for my family. Regardless, I suggest that everyone consider an all encompassing view of this situation. First, why would Rep. Dunkin, who has never been identified on record as against an override, authorize a subordinate to click him in as present in today’s session, while nearly simultaneously stating that he is not and will not be in Springfield to vote.

    Something does not appear quite right with his absence being identified as the causative factor for the override not being called for a vote.

    If any good leader felt strongly that a vote was the best course for this state, what would she/or he do? Hopefully, she/or he would call the vote and not blame a well entrenched representative who more than likely would have been there in support.

    At some point we citizens must have faith in our government. Faith that our government is of the people and for the people. Not the belief that everything that occurs in the Statehouse is a political charade or an attack on the working class by the Governor.

    Unfortunately, today’s actions appear to cement the popular belief in both. Rep. Durkin’s reported ultimatum to his cohort cements Governor Rauner’s desire (and more than likely threatens the adverse use of Governor Rauner’s money) to pressure all Republicans to vote against the override. On the other hand, Speaker Madigan (intentionally or not) was unable or unwilling to ensure that all of the Democrats who signed in as present for session, were actually present. On a side note, if I sign in for work as present but am not actually at work, there will be heck to pay.

    Regardless of the ultimate outcome, the override deserves a vote. If a vote was/is not called because a Representatve who officially signed in to work but was not physically present, then so be it. However, no other employee of this state would be granted the leeway to sign in to work, but not actually be present.


  409. - Pot calling kettle - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:19 pm:

    About Smiddy and the “debate”…the Republicans gave soooooo many openings. Did he not pounce on because he doesn’t know how or is he super polite?


  410. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:20 pm:

    - Pot calling kettle -

    With respect,

    AFSCME will lose if it goes to a strike in hopes of public support. Rauner wants AFSCME to strike, and picketers, and chanting, and singing…

    … and Rauner will run ads about how ungrateful state workers are, and how state workers make too much money.

    Rauner won tonight, it’s that simple.


  411. - Anon - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:21 pm:

    I cannot comprehend going to the ER and having to pay a $1500 co pay plus 80% of the bill


  412. - Fr. Murphy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:23 pm:

    I wish Henry Bayer was still running things. He was Rounder’s match.


  413. - Formerpol - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:24 pm:

    So Dunkin, Franks, and Drury were the only Dems to buck Madigan. Some of his suburban members took a real bad Yes vote that will hurt them at the next election. They better hope the rigged Districts save them!
    If AFSCME strikes, they will get killed in the public perception battle. They have wages, security, and benefits far beyond most of the private sector. It will be the effective end of public employee unions in Illinois.


  414. - kimocat - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:24 pm:

    So what is Madigan saying about all this? He counted wrong? I don’t think so. Raymond Poe — you are a disgrace.


  415. - Pot calling kettle - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:24 pm:

    OW: I don’t disagree, but I don’t agree…yet. I have serious doubts about AFSCME’s ability to rally support. However, I had similar doubts about the CTU vs Rahm, and I was surprised.


  416. - Check - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:25 pm:

    The question is will Rauner put for such a horrible deal as to cause the union to strike or will he put forth a Teamsters-like proposal.


  417. - nadia - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:27 pm:

    Drury voted “no” he was the other Dem


  418. - Give Me A Break - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:28 pm:

    So how are all you AFSCME members feeling about right now? Remember when you shut down Gov’s Day two years ago screaming at PQ? Karma says hello.


  419. - O.W.L. - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:28 pm:

    Capfax: where state union workers go to complain and freak out.

    Just wanted to add to the comment record ;)


  420. - State employees - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:28 pm:

    Poe just lost my vote. Good luck in next election.


  421. - Troy Bien - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:30 pm:

    tired of politics–
    Maybe you haven’t heard, the race to the bottom already happened and Illinois won.


  422. - Blackcaesar - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:30 pm:

    Reply Oswego, an elitist mindset has never and never will solve the problems of this state. I’m so sick and tired of conversatives pumping the rhetoric that Kang “Koopa” Rauner will save the state of Illinois. A strike will mean some blood for both sides…tomorrow the final battle will be determined
    in Springfield. let’s get ready to rumble!!!!!!


  423. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:31 pm:

    No GOP will be harmed by there own party,just voter consequence


  424. - Phil King - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:31 pm:

    This is a good thing.

    This bill would have a set a horrible precedent. This would be the GA taking away a core power of the Governor, who is elected state wide, to carry out the public will.

    It’s not as if they were trying to change the way bargaining works forever. Nope. Just for Rauner’s term.

    Bad public policy regardless of how you feel about unions. Anyone who says differently likely has something to gain personally.


  425. - Mac - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:32 pm:

    State employees, Poe will do fine, because Springfield never votes it’s needs, and AFSCME won’t do what it needs to do to pick change that.


  426. - Check - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:35 pm:

    Dunkin will probably not run for re-election and retire a rich man oversees in two years.


  427. - Anon - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:35 pm:

    Never voting for Poe again. I will support any non-Raunerite opponent he gets with my time and money.


  428. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:35 pm:

    Troy bien, go to church more often. You are mean and cruel and as a clergyman I’m concerned for your soul.


  429. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:36 pm:

    - Blackcaesar -

    What did you say exactly? Rauner won tonight. He did.

    Poe will be fine, as will Franks, even Dunkin.

    Rauner isn’t afraid, he has the cash, and Labor just isn’t ready to unite. They talk about it, but if we’re honest, this AFSCME battle is also about fear, and no one is fearing AFSCME.


  430. - Quiet Sage - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:37 pm:

    ==Rauner won tonight==
    The State did not win. The legislative atmosphere is now poisoned as badly or even worse than in the Blago years. Duncan’s AWOL was a dire personal attack against Madigan’s integrity and competence. Ironic that Madigan, the master of legislative machinations, was almost certainly playing it straight today.


  431. - present - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:37 pm:

    I’m a laid off state worker. I have plenty of time to strike and ill get paid for it. Thanks afscme for all your help btw. You snoozed.


  432. - markg8 - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:40 pm:

    Rauner negotiated that benign deal with all 270 teamster members who work for the state just so his minions could blab about how reasonable he is. You ASFCME guys don’t get it. He wants you to strike and then he’s going to fire you like Reagan fired the air traffic controllers. He’ll shut down the govt and blame you for it. Where do you get the impression that Mr Ruthless, now that he’s won the ability to do what he wants, which is destroy collective bargaining in IL, is going to pull back? Sheesh


  433. - Union Man - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:40 pm:

    I called Poe. I wrote Poe. My 78 year old mother called Poe, my GF called Poe, my Retiree friend called Poe, my neighbor called Poe all after listening to me. Then Poe votes present under duress from the Gov. Respect, like the Autumn sun is fading.


  434. - Mason born - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:40 pm:

    It seems to me labor needs to study the NRA for politics. You can hate them all you want but they are organized and manage to get the majority of their members to exert the right poliritical pressure.


  435. - nadia - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:41 pm:

    Like last year’s fair will AFSCME “boo” Madigan again? Doubt he forgot about that while all this took place. Dinner at Saputo’s, glass of wine, off for a good night’s sleep. Tomorrow adds the GOP votes on this to his campaign strategy for next year.

    Similar to Pate years; I passed it, I called it, but those bad GOPer’s killed it. Another dinner, another wine another day being his districts rep, maintaining a Dem majority, being Speaker, and keeping his daughter out of these nasty fights.


  436. - Will - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:44 pm:

    This is a win/win for Rauner. Strike makes him look reasonable and it hurts people he doesn’t give two…hoots about anyway.


  437. - The Dude Abides - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:44 pm:

    Rauner has the opportunity to make himself look reasonable and make the Union look disingenuous if he offers a reasonable compromise that can be accepted. He can then say that the Union said that I would force a strike but we were able to work things out. I said all along that we would negotiate in good faith and we did.
    The hard earned lesson is that the Union has no friends in the GOP that will stand up for them. Guys like Brauer and Poe deep down never were fans of Unions. I’ve known this for a long time. The AFSCME leadership has made some strategic errors that have come home to roost tonight. Once they bailed on Quinn they waited too long before throwing support to Dillard. If they can get a deal like the Teamsters they’d better take it.


  438. - Apple Picker - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:45 pm:

    AFSCME didn’t do the rest of organized labor any favors with this play.


  439. - foster brooks - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:45 pm:

    when this bill was first introduced i believe smiddy was dumbfounded why afscme would take this route.


  440. - PublicServant - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:45 pm:

    I guess we’ll see how big of a chunk Rauner extracts from public employees. In the end, I’d like to see a dollar figure on his savings. Now, we’ve proven that Madigan, and the legislators he doesn’t control, could not override Bruce and the legislators he bought. Can we talk about a budget now?

    Bruce, you’ve been given a green light to stick it to public employees as much as you want. Let’s see how much you can get away with. I think it’s going to be a bloodbath. I’m truly sorry for current public employees now. This is the darkest. I’m not sure dawn is coming anymore.


  441. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:46 pm:

    L’homme armé doibt on doubter.
    On a fait partout crier
    Que chascun se viegne armer
    D’un haubregon de fer.
    L’homme armé doibt on doubter.


  442. - nadia - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:47 pm:

    GOP will always choose big $ over working people and unions; anyone who thinks differently should just examine this vote.


  443. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:52 pm:

    - Pot calling kettle -

    People sympathize with teachers, not…

    “Greedy overpaid state workers and their guaranteed pension and state paid for healthcare…”

    … which is how Rauner will hammer the striking AFSCME workers, making them look so bad people will sympathize with Rauner.

    Rahm never had this…. luxury


  444. - Mason born - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:53 pm:

    Public Servant

    My bet is everything that was taken off the table is back on.


  445. - Omega Man - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:55 pm:

    Legislators have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind.


  446. - Tom K. - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 7:58 pm:

    ==Not sure what all the fuss is about== Alskid@5:50, it is because for many AFSCME members, the current deal they have with the state is IRREPLACEABLE in the private sector, primarily those without degrees or marketable technical skills. For many other people in the state workforce, they would likely be very competitive in the private sector. Then again, the private sector (at least my company) has been hammered so hard (lack of raises, health insurance cost increases, layoffs, etc.), in the past eight years, who would want to enter that fishbowl if they didn’t have to? I don’t begrudge AFSCME their above-market compensation and pensions out of “jealousy”, I simply resent having to pay ever more for it while I’m being clobbered in the private sector myself. The whole country, not just the state, has slid backwards since 2007, AFSCME hasn’t noticed because they’ve been insulated from it - and this override was intended to keep as much of that insulation as possible.


  447. - nadia - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:05 pm:

    Where’s King Rauner’s budget? He wins this round (I guess he did) maybe forces a strike, do things get better or worse for the State?

    Why does everyone assume AFSCME looks bad if they strike? These are labor negotiations, with concessionary bargaining, why wouldn’t a strike be a possibility just as much as a lock out? How much will AFSCME members take? A Union and an employer enter this arena and just about any thing can happen, it’s just the way it is. Why is it bad if either side uses their economic tool to better their position at the bargaining table?


  448. - Jorge - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:05 pm:

    AFSCME shot themselves in the foot. Rauner won and now gets to continue his right wing crusade to turn Illinois into Raunerstan one middle class member and an additional trailer park at a time.


  449. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:05 pm:

    ===…above-market compensation…===

    Attention AFSCME members;

    It’s the “intelligent” people out in the “real world” like - Tom K - that will ensure your strike fails.

    I’ve yet to hear a Republican say wages are too high in a campaign. I’ve yet to see the Republican platform say people make too much money.

    - Tom K - and his fake “understanding” while harping on your bloated salaries and pensions will sink you in a strike.


  450. - Mason born - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:06 pm:

    This may be the time for AFSCME to do a tactical retreat. Yield some on the work rules, yield on collecting fair share dues etc. in exchange for sparing economic pain to mmembers. As much as feasible assuming Rauner negotiates after this.

    I know it’s a step back but those are the very things a Dem governor Is likely to restore reasonably painlessly in ‘19. Goal #1 is surviving Rauners term. Goal #2 is ensuring only one term.


  451. - @MisterJayEm - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:06 pm:

    Dear AFSCME,

    Do you think Pat Quinn has learned his lesson?

    Sincerly,
    – MrJM


  452. - Challengerrt - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:07 pm:

    Legislators what ye reap so shall ye sow!


  453. - @MisterJayEm - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:07 pm:

    Dear AFSCME,

    Do you think Pat Quinn has learned his lesson?

    Sincerely,
    – MrJM


  454. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:08 pm:

    “Greedy overpaid state workers and their guaranteed pension and state paid for healthcare…”

    Does this include the bologna sandwich slappers in prisons downstate? Did they vote for Bruce?


  455. - A Jack - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:09 pm:

    Well the good news is that we have a majority of the GA supporting labor, just not a super majority. Those 34 Republicans can Nay all the way to the horse farm, and it still won’t get any of Rauner’s agenda passed.


  456. - DuPage Don - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:10 pm:

    The enormity of this loss for The Speaker cannot be overstated! It is a moment of high drama and the fledgling administration in the executive branch won big….not gloatin’; just sayin’.


  457. - Jack Stephens - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:11 pm:

    It’s a shame he doesn’t have the balls to take on the police union. He’s an effeminate chicken like his bf Scott up north!


  458. - the old man - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:12 pm:

    AFSCME: wake up and smell the odor, Madigan did not want this override because Lisa will be governor someday soon. Madigan hid Dunkin somewhere. All the drama and AFSCME were just the players on a stage. I am not paying my dues any more.


  459. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:17 pm:

    - the old man -,

    That’s what got AFSCME in this problem to begin with…


  460. - Almost the Weekend - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:23 pm:

    AFSCME the last five years have become complacent. They took legislators for granted, assumed they had enough political power to have a large influence whether it was with money or boots on the ground.

    Creating enemies in every area of government and in political circles. Making threats instead of working to compromise. Not working to grow a more diverse and educated union, but standing pat with the status quo in an economy where technical skills are essential to be efficient and successful, whether in the public or private sector. The only reason this was even close is because Rauner has burned every bridge with public and private sector unions, and the relationship with Rauner and Madigan has continued to deteriorate. If those factors weren’t at play this vote would have never been this close. AFSCME has done nothing to promote the overall union cause they were only it for themselves. The private and public sector unions back this up.

    People have discussed that if this bill passed it might save Rauner from himself. This bill is saving AFSCME from themselves. Showing that for the next four years they actually have to work, something they have never had to do. And by work I mean starting from the ground floor. Meeting with all legislators, informing County and municipal officials too. And talking with business owners so they realize who their customers are.

    But if history is any indicator AFSCME will send out a press release scolding the governor and burning bridges with every legislator who voted no instead of working to build a relationship in the future. Let’s see how it plays out in 2016, if they can actually have an impact instead of just talking about it.


  461. - present - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:23 pm:

    Yes ow and old man. It was getting harder and harder to distinguish stewards from management. But hey I was told they were “effective” when I brought it to their attention.


  462. - Pot calling kettle - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:24 pm:

    ==I know it’s a step back but those are the very things a Dem governor Is likely to restore reasonably painlessly in ‘19. ==

    Don’t hold your breath. When you give up something in a contract it is very difficult to get it back in. Who ever is Gov. is not likely to just give it back with no concessions from the union.


  463. - nadia - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:29 pm:

    A Jack - Right on, Labor got 68 votes, hard to pass anything anti-labor with that total.


  464. - CharlieKratos - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:31 pm:

    Time to update your LinkedIn profiles, state workers.


  465. - Lincoln Lad - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:32 pm:

    Another miscalculation by MJM. The massive failure on pension reform was bigger than this, but all the same, he is making mistake after mistake. Don’t forget the pay raise snafu, the Metra debacle, etc.
    So much for dealing with Gov Rauner, pendulum swung tonight. 68 votes???? After saying he had the votes? Wow.


  466. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:39 pm:

    Gov. Rauner’s staff was on the floor. They stood behind Poe to make sure he voted present on the bill. Makes you wonder doesn’t it?


  467. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:42 pm:

    The speaker wants to give the governor all the rope he needs


  468. - Big Muddy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:43 pm:

    Anon @ 8:42,
    They always stand there.


  469. - Wensicia - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:44 pm:

    “We protect your right to strike, so we can hold you up as greedy, selfish, overpaid government workers if you take that step.”

    “No need to thank us!” House Republicans


  470. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:47 pm:

    Smart move now you can put speaker and the votes he controls to bed it had to lose


  471. - DuPage Don - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:47 pm:

    Anonymous @ 8:39 pm - Stop, you’re embarrassing yourself!


  472. - jknell - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:50 pm:

    Oswego Willy wrote “Tom K - and his fake “understanding” while harping on your bloated salaries and pensions will sink you in a strike.”

    Sadly, that is EXACTLY what happened in Wisconsin. Republicans found a divide and conquer cleavage and the unions and Democrats cracked like gemstone in the jewel cutter’s workroom.


  473. - Mason born - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:52 pm:

    Pot calling kettle

    Note i said relatively painlessly. To me Rauner and his bought caucus have stated they have no desire for AFSCME to support them. AFSCME needs to make themselves indispensable to the dems. Making strengthening AFSCME strengthening their base.


  474. - Robert the 1st - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:52 pm:

    “I cannot comprehend going to the ER and having to pay a $1500 co pay plus 80% of the bill”

    Welcome to the real world champ.


  475. - Groundhog Day - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:53 pm:

    Well, certainly not the outcome I was hoping for, but a big THANK YOU to Rich Miller for hosting this forum, and to all the commentators who provide so much enlightenment. It was a real cliffhanger


  476. - Union boss - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:54 pm:

    Afscme has no strike fund…strike not likely.


  477. - Robert the 1st - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:54 pm:

    Oops, no. You’d pay a 1500 deductible, like the rest of us. After that you’d pay the remaining 80%. Believe it or not, that’s considered good insurance for college educated private sector.


  478. - Foolish Sophist - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:57 pm:

    Robert the 1st: State benefits are a huge reason that people otherwise too talented to stay stick around for the abuse from hacks and politicians.

    Please show some respect.


  479. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:57 pm:

    Robert the 1st -
    What kind of lousy insurance do you have that you think that those ER cop-pay rate are what people are paying in the “real world.” Get a grip.


  480. - DonaldTrump - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:03 pm:

    =- Jack Stephens - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 8:11 pm:

    It’s a shame he doesn’t have the balls to take on the police union. He’s an effeminate chicken like his bf Scott up north!=

    WOW! You union Dems are so clever and thoughtful with the words! You really know how to turn a phrase. AFSCME must be so proud. Are all Madigan supporters police hating homophobes like you?


  481. - Robert the 1st - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:05 pm:

    “State benefits are a huge reason that people otherwise too talented to stay stick around”

    I guess then we might see the exodus of state workers if the contract is too harsh? So what’s the concern then? Unless of course, the early retirement and compounded 3% raise life-time pensions not available anywhere else play a part? Let’s see what the free market decides I suppose.


  482. - Oh Yeah - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:07 pm:

    I’m typically a fan of MJM, but this was a major blow to him, his legacy and his prestige. He and his staff have been touting he had the votes for an override and when it was time for him to put up or shut up he was shut up. Major win for the Gov!
    And a win for Cullerton. Without making a fuss he did what his super-majority should have done and vote to override. MJM couldn’t replicate so he looks weaker and more ineffectual. MJM’s clearly not what he used to be or what he still gets billed as being.
    And if I was AFSCME, the AFL or others in labor I’d be mad at the vacationing rep, but even madder at MJM and DPI to whom I have given so much money in the past. The money is given to produce results and MJM and his staff failed to deliver the results all because they couldn’t convince a vacationing rep–who is in a leadership position given to him by MJM–to fly back for one day.


  483. - Former Merit Comp Slave - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:11 pm:

    No need to voice my opinion except to ask Rich if the number of comments is a new record?


  484. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:12 pm:

    This makes the governor’s mailers about the speaker silly


  485. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:16 pm:

    - Oh Yeah -

    Labor blew this on their own.

    It wasn’t MJM or Cullerton or wasted donations.

    If Labor can’t convince Union members voting for Rauner will hurt them, that’s on Labor.

    Teaching Quinn a lesson, that was the goal.

    Rauner doesn’t fear Labor, not because of his money, it’s because Labor can’t organize and beat him. Rauner shouldn’t fear Labor, there’s no proof that Labor will be any more effective in the future.


  486. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:16 pm:

    @Robert the 1st
    Quit emailing and threatening other members of this board already. I’ve gotten so much hate mail from you it’s not even funny.


  487. - jknell - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:17 pm:

    Yeah, so much for the Great Puppet Master, B.S.


  488. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:17 pm:

    This only happened because madigan


  489. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:18 pm:

    “an effeminate chicken” Wouldn’t it have to be an effeminate rooster to be homophobic? ;D


  490. - illini - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:20 pm:

    WOW this has to be a record number of comments to any posting. Many great comments, lots to think about but I have not had a real chance to sort out my feelings. The comments I have read do give me some points to ponder.


  491. - À guy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:22 pm:

    This has been thoroughly tossed about by now, but seeing that comments are so close to 500,I’d like to help get there.


  492. - Anon - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:22 pm:

    Union boss. We are not going to have a choice. Rauner will not fairly negotiate. He will give a ludacris final offer and say accept or strike. It will be a forced strike just like he wants.


  493. - Mouthy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:23 pm:

    Why the GOP don’t fear ASFCME - Because next year at this time they figure they will be toast.
    Will ASFCME strike - They will have to because the alternative is destruction.
    Will this be called up again - Nope.
    Did the Speaker lose - Nope, all the blame and ire will be on the GOP and a couple of Dems.
    What should ASFCME members do - Watch your spending, save, and support your union. It’s your only hope.
    Will this hurt businesses in the Springfield area - Bigtime.
    Anything else ASFCME members can do - set up the organizational backbone for a food bank.
    Is Illinois about to change for the worse - You betcha..
    Is the above my opinion and not my hope - Yup.


  494. - Practikal - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:25 pm:

    I honestly don’t see Rauner’s end game here. Even he has to understand he can’t win a public relations battle while raising insurance five-fold on state troopers and prison guards who put their lives on the line every day.


  495. - Now What? - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:27 pm:

    Anybody else here think this whole veto override scenario was a ruse? A ruse to check the pulse of labor? A victory for Rauner that was allowed to happen courtesy of MJM? Perhaps MJM is slipping, but I find it hard to believe that he would allow this to occur without knowing how the vote would turnout 15 days ago. Not his MO, but perhaps things are changing.


  496. - Adam98 - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:27 pm:

    There is a whole laundry list of things that have to happen before a strike is even close. There has to be investigations, mediation, strike votes, who is deemed essential and not essential. The best thing is to stay calm and take one day at a time. It’s going to be hard to get rid of people and conduct business as an agency when you don’t have a budget or the authority to spend money to begin with.


  497. - Crispy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:28 pm:

    Galactic display of cowardice on the part of many. Too bad Poe wimped out. And Dunkin? There are no words.

    I agree with Mason born on the “tactical retreat” idea; survive and regroup. This is a big loss, but long-term, maybe it can have good results for Labor if it provides union leadership with a strong enough wake-up call to get its act together politically. (Hey, I can dream.)

    Also, the worst thing AFSCME could do at this point is to go on strike, thereby enabling Rauner to deliver the coup de grace. I hope cooler heads prevail.


  498. - From the 'Dale to HP - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:32 pm:

    Rauner didn’t win by not losing.

    This is a blow for the unions, but not a death blow by any means.

    This is not a win for Rauner. He just didn’t lose. If he and his supporters wanna have a party, go ahead, but that’s setting the bar really really really really low.


  499. - Jeep - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:34 pm:

    Actually I had fears about the over-ride if it had succeeded. I could see, in that case, Rauner being so pressured to prove his relavancy he’d go to extremes like giving up entirely on the budget and striking at state employees with layoffs.

    The failure of the over-ride is equally scary, but there are no good paths out of this situation except that the gov and GA get a budget passed and a new union contract is negotiated in good faith.

    The failure of the overide is just as scary, but there are no good


  500. - jknell - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:34 pm:

    Oswego Willy, you are very well informed and I couldn’t agree more with you about the anti-Quinn left / labor types and the likely effects of a strike. But remember, the unions don’t hire people. If you are going to call out some of the leadership, do it. But active members and leaders didn’t hire the 40% Republicans. I have had to work with such politically suicidal people. I’ve had to resort to academic literature about party identification being more about “honoring your parents” or staying in good standing with your peer group than defending your self-interest. It’s not logical, but it how some people work.


  501. - Adam98 - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:37 pm:

    Thank you to all the legislators who stood up for public employees. Also, there are people in the legislature on both sides that are great to talk and share ideas with. No one should not be afraid to get involved. Remember, anyone who refuses to vote, complains, and expects change will find it difficult to do so. Nothing will change unless you choose get involved.

    By the way, judges can order parties into interest arbitration—the battle isn’t over yet.


  502. - Mouthy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:38 pm:

    - Adam98 - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:27 pm:

    There is a whole laundry list of things that have to happen before a strike is even close. There has to be investigations, mediation, strike votes, who is deemed essential and not essential. The best thing is to stay calm and take one day at a time. It’s going to be hard to get rid of people and conduct business as an agency when you don’t have a budget or the authority to spend money to begin with.

    Hate to disagree but you’re in a war and you’ve just been nuked. It’s time to stiffen up and use your one day at a time to prepare to do battle.


  503. - nixit71 - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:39 pm:

    Folks will say this is a battle between private vs public sectors. But this is really more of a generational battle than anything.

    For decades, our elected officials have over-promised and under-funded. Never once did they conduct any meaningful analysis and forecasting to see if those promises were reasonable or scalable over the long-term. They hid the true cost of these promises from the voting public by attempting to borrow their way to prosperity. And failed miserably.

    Has our Legislature ever considered a conservative fiscal approach to anything? Did any of them ever account for the risk of a decreasing state population earning less money? Record number of folks on food stamps? Because both of those things are happening right now.

    But who really pays? The next generation. Time and time again. From the Tier 2 state employees with drastically reduced benefits than their Tier 1 co-workers to the “Tier 2″ taxpayers who will have to deal with reduced services and ever increasing debt.

    Make no mistake, one generation will make out like bandits…the Boomers. They managed to get public sector benefits on what evolved into private sector salaries. Created well-paying admin levels that never existed before. Managed to spike their already generous end of career salaries by as much as 40% to boost their already generous pensions. All while they and their private sector counterparts were under-taxed (or at least over-consumed). And now the others are left to clean up their mess.


  504. - Oh Yeah - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:40 pm:

    And I agree with OW and others: this was a MAJOR blow to AFSCME and the AFL. They are being shown to be the paper tigers many of us were starting to think/fear they were.
    AFSCME needs to look in the mirror and have a real “post-mortem.” They are in a corner now and all their donations to MJM and DPI were for naught. And AFSCME leadership…well, they leave a lot to be desired.
    OW estimates about 40% of AFSCME members voted for Rauner. I bet that’s way conservative and was actually much more. I know many AFSCME members and NOT ONE voted for Quinn. Not one. Well, you get what you voted for. The chickens have come home to roost.


  505. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:40 pm:

    Hinz pointed out that if they wanted, they could just pass the bill again, let BVR veto it, and vote on the override again when Dunkin is back from NYC. Seems unlikely though.


  506. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:40 pm:

    ===But active members and leaders didn’t hire the 40% Republicans. I have had to work with such… people.===

    I hear ya, and in any and every walk of life we see people, in this case voters, more than willing to cut off their nose to spite their face.

    I get it, I understand it too.

    As a collective, when 2 of 5 see it wise to cut off their nose… lots being lost at all levels of any movemeng with that kind of leakage.


  507. - Toots - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:42 pm:

    Wow! My first time on here. Harsh! Like many blogs, though, there are a lot of people on here who like to spout off without knowing the facts. All the negative comments about State Employees and the rich benefits we have compared to the private sector are based on opinion and not fact and lies do not help anyone.


  508. - Adam98 - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:44 pm:

    @Mouthy
    Do you even know how public sector labor relations work? Have you read the Public Labor Relations Act? Court opinions, etc? You just can’t suddenly say we are going on strike!! There is a whole process you have to go through, including a waiting period, investigations, etc. This is where the judicial branch is going to get involved. Rauner doesn’t own this state. Three branches of government exist for a reason.


  509. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:44 pm:

    ===OW estimates about 40% of AFSCME members voted for Rauner.===

    No. That’s not what I said

    Labor, according to Exit Polling indicated that 40% of voters identified coming from Union households voted Rauner.

    Not a guess or estimate, not AFSCME alone either.

    It’s a severe Labor problem, and why would Rauner fear them? He wouldn’t. He doesn’t.


  510. - Go Huskies - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:44 pm:

    I see the R legislators’ unity as a bigger deal than the failure to override. Labor tried to pass a law to benefit themselves, it was vetoed. Union workers are no worse off than they were before labor developed this idea.


  511. - Mouthy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:44 pm:

    - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:40 pm:

    Remember OW, “Elections have Consequences”


  512. - Troy Bien - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:45 pm:

    Gee whiz, pick a narrative here folks.
    Did AFSCME workers vote for Dillard in droves during the primary in an attempt to defeat Rauner?
    Or did AFSCME vote for Rauner over Quinn in the general to teach Quinn a lesson?


  513. - jknell - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:46 pm:

    OW… kinda makes makes me admire CTU even more… what % did they have to get to go on strike a few years back? Was it 70%? I guess there is something about people that go in to teaching that makes them more politically sophisticated than state employees or university staffers.


  514. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:47 pm:

    - Mouthy -

    So true…

    So true.

    (Tips cap to - jknell -)


  515. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:49 pm:

    Nixit71 you should seek help for your gerontophobia


  516. - the Other Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:50 pm:

    So Dunk in wins the Century Club Trophy for bills that get 100+ no votes. What does he get for generating 500+ comments on CapFax?


  517. - Toots - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:50 pm:

    If you want to look at who is making the big bucks in the state, look at the Political Appointees in the SPSA and PSA positions. It took me 10 years to get up to the salary I was making when I left the private sector working in the Insurance Industry. I stuck with it because I am passionate about my job and the work I do to make the lives of our citizens better.


  518. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:51 pm:

    Will be printing my resume and sending it out. The turmoil is too much. I have enough problems and stress without the added stress of state politics.


  519. - RNUG - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:52 pm:

    There was only one way that Raymond Poe could lose his district in the next election … and he just chose it.


  520. - one of three puppets - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 9:58 pm:

    Jknell…..
    Wisconsin labor had no GOP friends. When they lost the majority they had no one to work with to stop Walker. Sorry, the Wisconsin hyperbole doesn’t work here. Not scared.


  521. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:00 pm:

    - Troy Bien -

    Both are true… and why Labor and AFSCME find themselves in this situation.

    AFSCME went into the GOP primary, to have an option to defear Quinn, got Rauner.

    Daily, you could read here;

    “I’m an AFSCME member but I’m going to vote for Rauner anyway to teach Quinn a lesson”

    It was daily, and no matter what, they wanted that lesson taught.


  522. - kimocat - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:02 pm:

    Amen RNUG.


  523. - Old Timer - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:04 pm:

    If the Teamsters reached a fair deal, why can’t AFSCME?


  524. - one of three puppets - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:05 pm:

    Rnug, poe lose? Let’s bet please! I wanna sure thing. Please let’s bet. Poe destroys any faux labor Republican! Madigan didn’t want to give Rauner the corrupt bargain angle. Simple as that. Passing this would have given Rauner the issue to destroy his caucus since he would have money behind the message.


  525. - jknell - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:06 pm:

    Troy Bien… probably both. Many of the active members probably voted for Dillard. Many of the contrarians who think they will be rewarded in their imagined Raunerite meritocracy voted to punish Quinn. Unions don’t choose those they represent. They can always hope for unofficial patronage to make up for their across-the-board losses. Plenty went that route in Wisconsin. Some are realizing that Walker and his friends care a lot more about small reductions in taxes than providing merit pay increases. But they can always hope the next Republican governor will recognize their “merit”. Admitting one has been dupped is very very hard.


  526. - one of three puppets - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:07 pm:

    Amen old timer


  527. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:08 pm:

    - Old Timer -

    What was the Teamsters deal, how is it similar to the AFSCME deal offered by Rauner.

    Ugh.


  528. - RNUG - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:08 pm:

    Poe won’t lose to another GOPer, he will lose to whoever the D’s run if they get a halfway decent candidate.


  529. - A Jack - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:08 pm:

    AFSCME should start taking the possibility of a strike more seriously and start setting aside money for a strike fund. They also better figure out how to energize their members for a strike if they want it to be successful.

    Granted a strike is the nuclear option, but that doesn’t mean it can’t have some preparation. I suspect most state workers don’t have a clue how a strike works since we have never had one.


  530. - Adam98 - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:10 pm:

    (5 ILCS 315/18) (from Ch. 48, par. 1618)
    Sec. 18. (a) If a strike, which may constitute a clear and present danger to the health and safety of the public is about to occur or is in progress, the public employer concerned may petition the board to make an investigation and conduct a hearing. Unfair labor practices committed by the employer shall be a defense to such petition. If the board finds that within 72 hours there is a clear and present danger to the health and safety of the public the employer shall petition the circuit court where the strike is about to occur or is in progress for appropriate judicial relief to stop the strike or to set conditions and requirements which must be complied with by the exclusive representative, to avoid or remove any such clear and present danger. No injunctive relief shall be granted except upon a showing that the strike constitutes a clear and present danger to the health and safety of the public. The court may allow the strike to occur or continue under conditions which it finds will avoid or remove any such clear and present danger. The court shall designate the essential employees within the affected unit whose services are necessary to avoid or remove any such clear and present danger. Such employees may be ordered to return to work under conditions and requirements which the court finds to be appropriate and such order may be only for a limited duration, and may be extended only upon demonstration that such extension is necessary to protect the public health and safety from a clear and present danger.
    If the court orders any of the employees in the affected unit to return to work it shall require the employer and exclusive representative to participate in the impasse arbitration procedures set forth in Section 14 of this Act. The Court shall determine for which employees such procedures in Section 14 shall apply.
    (b) Equitable defenses such as unclean hands and any unfair labor practices committed by the employer shall be considered as defenses by the court. Failure to agree to a proposal or to make a concession is not per se a violation of the unclean hands doctrine.
    (c) If any employee or employee organization fails to comply with any order of the Court issued pursuant to this Section, the employer may institute judicial proceedings to enforce the order of the court.
    (Source: P.A. 83-1012.)


  531. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:10 pm:

    Many of those AFSCME members who wanted to “teach Quinn a lesson” were likely still relying on Mike Madigan and the supermajority they helped deliver him to protect their interests.


  532. - Jorge - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:12 pm:

    RNUG, the only other way our is retirement for Poe. Methinks change is nigh.


  533. - Mason born - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:16 pm:

    Actually I think every citizen of il including the gov lost. I thought when this first passed it was a bargaining chip. Something Rauner wanted that MJM could give him to get things moving. After the Senate this became a more valuable chip and increased in value right up until Dunkin was found to be awol. Rauner gambled on holding his caucus and (as far as we know) not negotiating on this. Now that the gamble has payed off the Gov. will most likely see this as his path to go forward against a perceived weakened MJM. Meanwhile MJM knows even with Dunkins treachery/stupidity he still has 68 votes.

    The end results both sides are even farther apart than they were July 1st and more emboldened. We will continue the court ordered defecit loosing any opportunity to spread out necessary cuts as time flitters away while not increasing one dime of revenue. Rauner still needs to pony up his mindless henchmen in both houses to get anything. At this rate we will be lucky to see a budget before the 2nd tuesday of November ‘16.

    AFSCME lost but they weren’t the only ones.


  534. - Mouthy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:16 pm:

    - Adam98 - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:10 pm:

    The board this statute refers to I’m assuming is the Labor board which I’d also assume is already stacked with the Governor’s appointees. So if the Governor wants a strike he’ll get it..


  535. - Amazing - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:19 pm:

    I know this seems like a big w for the repub’s and Bruce, but it really forces them to start being the bad guy, layoffs, less $ for employees, raise taxes, “start owning”, my guess is by October of next year they’re going to wish this had passed with pretend opposition, sadly our employees and needy are going to have to suffer in the meantime.
    This is a huge loss for all of labor, teamsters, Seiu, ifop, etc.. They better come up with a survival plan, (I.e. Slash dues, prove their worth) because they’re about to start having people opt out and away from them.
    The Bruce is going to get draconian on these contracts and get the war he wants, pretty sure he will then realize this isn’t Wisconsin or Kansas, but our economy may look like it for a while. My guess is Bruce finds an exit strategy before deciding not to run again, then we get Willy’s real dream, Evelyn! Also, look out plaintiffs & defense attorneys, Bruce will be coming for you next.


  536. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:19 pm:

    AFSCME already gave Rauner the “corrupt bargain angle”. Then Madigan went and gave him a roll call with the names of 68 beneficiaries.


  537. - Spinning - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:19 pm:

    I am not sure if our system is working if a elected official goes against the wishes of his constituents. I think party politics wins the day. A sad day for a person we counted on in Mr. Poe and a sad day for others that were supposed to be on our side I suppose courage was tested and when threaten some have none and choose to give in.


  538. - one of three puppets - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:20 pm:

    Ok. Rnug, poe will not lose an election between now and Nov 2016. I would bet the house, but what do I know? I could just be a blog troll shooting off my mouth…….


  539. - jknell - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:24 pm:

    one of three puppets… if I were a strategic genius, I would be a high paid consultant and not posting on Capitol Fax at 10:21pm. There were a few moderates in both parties in Wisconsin but they got squashed. You don’t know how much I hope you are correct. Plenty of people in Wisconsin are happy as clams. The value menu isn’t so bad, you can always get cheap clothes at Kohl’s even if they don’t fit our overweight frames very well, and who needs a retirement nest egg? That’s why people have kids right? Eventually, creditors write debts off. Why worry? Be Happy!


  540. - AC - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:24 pm:

    Oswego Willy, I’d like to tell you that you’re wrong, that labor will wake up, that this will be the turning point for unions like AFSCME. Sadly, that isn’t the case, I don’t think even now, that most of the union households that voted for Rauner really, truly understand what they did. Most of them think that their union is crying wolf, things will be just fine, and others believe they are superstars too, and would do just fine under whatever system they’re under. They look confused when I ask them how things are working out for merit comp employees, even under Rauner the great rewarder of performance. I suspect most won’t truly grasp what happened until it’s too late. It’s probably too late now.


  541. - one of three puppets - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:24 pm:

    Anon 10:19. Yep. I agree.


  542. - blue dog dem - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:24 pm:

    Which word doesnt belong:a)present b)bankruptcy c)lockout d)stike or e)all of the above


  543. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:26 pm:

    - AC -,

    It’s like watching a slo-mo train wreck, and the people watching are oblivious.


  544. - one of three puppets - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:29 pm:

    Jknell, had to take a break from the highly paid consultant work and vent on here….


  545. - A Jack - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:30 pm:

    The big problem in central Illinois is that most Republicans run unopposed. So to find a Democrat that has the funding to run against Poe is the challenge. And I would think the Democrats would try to find challengers for all central Illinois Republican reps. Perhaps I will contact them, but I was kind of waiting for my state retirement to be available before I would contemplate such action.


  546. - Adam98 - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:33 pm:

    I hate to say it, but taxes are going to have to get raised. You don’t pass a budget, judges can order the legislature to do things. All is not lost yet. Also, just because your appointed by a sitting governor, doesn’t mean they will go along with them.


  547. - Amazing - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:34 pm:

    @old timer
    I can’t wait to find the fine print in the teamster deal, something doesn’t add up there with the healthcare, there’s no way they’re cheaper to ensure than anyone else, had anyone seen the teamsters reps! Also, they should probably get kicked out of the cfl, afl, etc.., but Afscme/Seiu can’t afford the infighting now. So Rahm used the teamsters, Bruce used the teamsters, what do the teamsters get except contracts that they can’t ratify or are based on some funny stuff.


  548. - A Jack - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:34 pm:

    I had one union member ask me for who she should vote. She thought they were both equally bad. I tried to convince her that Rauner was the worse of two evils, but I am not sure she got it. In fact I am still not sure she gets it.


  549. - Jorge - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:37 pm:

    One of three puppets. Why not go with master of puppets? Oh and I’ll take that bet, deed for deed.


  550. - Magnet45 - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:38 pm:

    Also, do you know how many people are eligible to retire right now? What is Rauner going to do? Buy more newspaper ads and scare more people into retiring without a state budget? Many people are already going on leaves. More layoff notices are also scheduled to go out which doesn’t include a hiring freeze being in place.


  551. - Gregor Samsa - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:39 pm:

    Ya know, Oswego Willy keeps beating this drum about how AFSCME members (redacted) themselves over by not sticking with Quinn. I disagree: Quinn was no great help to labor; indeed, he exploited his position with labor over and over, using the frog in a slow-boiling pot analogy of “I’ll cheat you out of promised raises and fight you on promised benefits, and you’ll give up, time and again, because this alternative Republican bogey-man over there (Brady, et al) would be MUCH worse for you.” Quinn put Labor into the position of a battered spouse given the hopeless alternatives of staying with the abuser, or picking someone ostensibly MORE evil. At some point, any animal will gnaw off it’s own leg to get out of a trap, and that’s why labor finally broke with Quinn. He battered them one time too often, without giving effective results.

    What they counted on was that Madigan could keep Rauner contained enough to not do too much damage until the next election cycle. Madigan has largely failed at that job of containment today. Overriding the veto would have taken a lot of drama off the table and turned the focus back to the budget.

    And please, let’s knock off the jealousy about state worker’s pay versus civilians. I hear complaints of 11 .5 percent raises, but those yelling about it ALWAYS act like that is eleven percent up front, each year, compounding, not an accumulated total of eleven percent over the length of the multi-year contract. That’s simply dishonest to claim. The eleven percent just keeps pace with inflation, as your civilian annual increases should. If you *don’t” get a COLA increase at YOUR job, your boss is in effect paying you LESS every year. Who thinks that makes any kind of sense? Would YOU work for a job where you get LESS each year? Never mind just staying level, but effectively LESS?

    I put in decades’ worth of work in my state job, clocking in and out and not stealing so much as a pen… and I never missed my pension payment obligations. Your governors and legislatures, on the other hand, took my pension payments and spent it on programs and services you citizens enjoyed, without needing to raise your taxes and make you sad… I paid for your services. You’re WELCOME!

    But now, I need that money I was promised, and the Supreme Court says I deserve to be paid. That is NOT greed. That is Justice. That’s law. Don’t mistake this gambit of Rauner’s: he won’t stop with trying to destroy AFSCME. He wants you private citizens powerless in the face of those you work for as well. Because his millionaire friends aren’t yet rich enough.


  552. - sonny chiss - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:41 pm:

    As a regular blog reader I kept wondering why O.W. Called sandack the owl. Watched the live feed and now I know, who, who, who…hahah. I am a former state worker who always voted R. I did not vote for Rauner though, many of my coworkers did….they do not read this blog.


  553. - anon - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:50 pm:

    “Don’t strike, that is what Rauner wants!” Yes, I am sure Rauner will shed tears when AFSCME capitulates and accepts his draconian “last best offer” in the “negotiations”. Let’s examine the options AFSCME has after Rauner extends his draconian “last best offer”

    1) Accept Rauner’s draconian cuts to their livelihoods, stay on the job, Rauner gets his vicious cuts without disruption to the State’s business. Complete capitulation.

    2) Strike and maybe prevent the most egregious cuts or strike and lose a few weeks/months pay and end up with the same deal you would have got if you had just capitulated.

    This is not Wisconsin, the general assembly is not going to pass right to work, nor is it 1980’s PATCO, that strike was illegal, a strike by AFSCME would not be so. AFSCME has to consider what is best for its members, not whether it’s a win or loss for Rauner.


  554. - Formerly Known As... - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:51 pm:

    Is everyone going to bury the lede like Rich?

    No one is excited to learn that Ken Dunkin either teleports himself or flies like Superman? He gets to Springfield from New York, signs in, then disappears and returns to New York without anyone seeing him. The guy has superpowers and all you can talk about is this vote?

    Disappointing. All of you. /s


  555. - btowntruth - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:51 pm:

    Hammond is my representative and she voted “present”.
    And I knew she didn’t have to courage to vote any other way.


  556. - Really???? - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:52 pm:

    Who got threatened with what, and why in the world did this vote happen as it did?

    I call BS.


  557. - Me nard Guy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:53 pm:

    None of it matters. We still have a $100 billion pension problem. Taxes or expand gambling. Take your pick.


  558. - in good faith - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:57 pm:

    good night AFSCME


  559. - Blago's Hare - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 10:58 pm:

    Poe folks have Poe ways.


  560. - Jorge - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 11:01 pm:

    FKA, you’re not any good at the snark angle. Stay home.


  561. - Norseman - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 11:20 pm:

    === There was only one way that Raymond Poe could lose his district in the next election … and he just chose it. ===

    RNUG, it’s all about the money. As I mentioned in comment nos. … I’m not surprised that Poe took a hike after hearing about Durkin’s position that a yes vote would get you kicked out of the Rauner caucus. Remember Poe runs a catering business that has done a good business on GOP fundraisers, now to be supplanted by fundraisers by Rauner minion wannabes. While he may not be as concerned, he is probably thinking of his kids financial position.

    Spi Spy(?) mentioned a rumor about Poe retiring. I can buy that. A little Poe may even end up getting the gig if he supplicates himself to the Rauner cause well enough.

    Even if he does run again, I really don’t see that he has a problem. He will have the support of the local subsidiary of Rauner Corp, previously known as the Sangamon GOP. Older GOP employees and retirees are unimportant anymore. There’s a new moneybags in town and they want to grab what they can.


  562. - RNUG - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 11:24 pm:

    - one of three puppets -

    I think the D’s will find someone to run. heck, it may just be an out of work / retired state employee.

    Based on the comments, a lot of us who thought we knew Poe on both a political and personal basis are every disappointed in his “Present” vote. I can’t speak for the rest of the posters, but I will contribute to his opponent if it is someone halfway reputable …


  563. - Mouthy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 11:26 pm:

    How late do I have to stay up to be the last post on the record setting day?


  564. - btowntruth - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 11:27 pm:

    Oswego Willy has been right and continues to be right about all of this.

    The 40% of union households who voted for Rauner were so mad at what they thought Quinn was doing to them that they ignored what Rauner wanted to do to them.
    I have three friends who work for the state who COULDN’T wait to vote for Rauner last November.
    Almost bragging about it.
    Now they literally refuse to talk about it.

    Elections have consequences.
    Elections have consequences.
    Elections have consequences.


  565. - RNUG - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 11:28 pm:

    Adding … for those who know me personally, in the past I have generally been on the GOP side of the fence but i suspect in the next election about the only state level GOP candidate I will financially support / vote for will be Sam McCann.


  566. - anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 11:29 pm:

    Unbelievable and completely unacceptable. It defies belief that a democratic super-majority fails at getting even the most basic democratic initiatives passed, again.


  567. - Amazing - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 11:34 pm:

    Good night!


  568. - Jorge - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 11:35 pm:

    RNUG, you sound like me, minus the six pack. I’m also going with Bernie Sanders.


  569. - Formerly Known As... - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 11:38 pm:

    Jorge - after more than 500 comments, anything other than additional bitter remarks about a ==right wing crusade to turn Illinois into Raunerstan one middle class member and an additional trailer park at a time== should be welcomed.


  570. - anon - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 11:39 pm:

    . Next year I see the House going Republican,

    This has to be trolling.

    Raymond Poe now works for Rauner, not his district.


  571. - Norseman - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 11:39 pm:

    RNUG, Sept 10th is a special election for congress. I don’t know if you live in the district, but I’m going to vote against LaHood. It will not affect the outcome, but I’m hoping that a closer election result will cause some stress. Nowhere near the stress we’ve endured for the past seven or so years.


  572. - Jorge - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 11:42 pm:

    FKA, not after you made light of my grandfather’s death in the Legionnaires post. 1886.


  573. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Sep 2, 15 @ 11:46 pm:

    Who knows, it could be Sam McCann with the last laugh of all the GOP GA…


  574. - Jorge - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 12:08 am:

    What no reply, FKA?


  575. - Percival - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 12:43 am:

    It was one bill, and most of the public doesn’t even know what is in it. But they will readily understand a strike by people already getting pensions and early retirement dates. So if AFSCME wants to strike, go right ahead. Rauner will have a large majority of the public behind him about 15 seconds later.


  576. - walker - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 4:09 am:

    A little perspective after sleeping on it:

    So we’re now back to where we were before the bill was introduced.

    AFSCME took a shot at Rauner and it finally fell short. Rauner got a win in Mike’s House by not losing. Any basis to move the budget along?


  577. - lake county democrat - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 4:28 am:

    You folks are WAY over-reacting here! What, the Democrats are now going to step aside and let Rauner gut labor Scott Walker style because they couldn’t pass a crap bill that EVERY media outlet in the state seemed to despise as much as Rauner?

    In the future, Madigan will use this example to argue he doesn’t really have supermajority power to pass a budget (a lie - the Democrats can negotiate with themselves more easily than they can negotiate with Rauner, while this override vote was “take it or leave it.”). He may even use it as an excuse to put some turnaround items on the table. But the end result will be the same - SOME mix of tax hikes and labor-unfriendly reforms.

    If “elections have consequences” means “Unions couldn’t change the law to make the bargaining process more to their liking” count me as underwhelmed. And the items that enjoy 60-15% support in the polls? Still blocked by the Speaker.


  578. - foster brooks - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 5:24 am:

    the only way rauner wins is if he gets a republican GA. otherwise he is a completely useless governor.


  579. - Hugo Stevens - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 5:56 am:

    Well, this bill would have been good for only four years anyway. What if Rauner were to be elected to a second term? How would contract negotiations go next time?


  580. - Anonymous - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 6:10 am:

    Killing the bill in the valley of death thats winning big time


  581. - Lincoln Lad - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 6:39 am:

    The media is focusing on Ken Dunkin not being there, he’s in all the news coverage. The Speaker’s comments point to him as well. Yet Scott Drury voted against it, Jack Franks voted present, and nobody mentions them in the media. If Drury, Franks and Poe voted to override, there would have been 71 votes. But the Speaker points at Ken and steers the media there? Things that make you go hmmmmm .


  582. - Late to the Party - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 6:41 am:

    Question - “Who did you vote for?”
    Answer - “I voted for Present; did he win?”


  583. - Johnnie F. - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 6:41 am:

    State employees have been made the perfect sacrificial lamb by both the democrats and republicans. The dems got the ball really rolling with all the pension reform and attempted rollback of promised benefits, when they knew it was illegal. The repubs now focused on continuing that line of pension thinking, and they continue the drumbeat of workers being lazy, overpaid, unqualified, etc. If the legislators were going to hate on their workers so much, why did they create all these Programs that require manpower to accomplish…and in many cases, highly trained manpower? Sad. How do you defend a Program w/o defending the workers who make it happen?


  584. - Gibby - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 6:54 am:

    This is a huge win for Rauner, HUGE! It the basis for everything he is wanting to accomplish with the union.

    His last offer will be unacceptable to most union members and force them to strike.

    He will then offer them to cross the lines for their jobs back at reduced benefits including volentary switch to Tier 2 pension benefits.

    Brilliant! Shake Up Springfield indeed!


  585. - Anonymous - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 7:08 am:

    The symbolism of a1% wining over labor right before labor day is breathtaking


  586. - Gibby - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 7:15 am:

    Let me paint a picture…

    You strike, I fire you. Your Tier 1 pension benefits are frozen.

    I offer you a job back only if you accept Tier 2 benefits. Remember, you don’t have to take he job back. The job is contingent on you accepting Tier 2 benefits. Someone will take it if not you.

    Frozen Tier 1 benefits. Tier 2 benefits going forward.

    Mission Accomplished. Next!


  587. - OneMan - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 7:32 am:

    Let me paint a picture…

    You strike, I fire you. Your Tier 1 pension benefits are frozen.

    So the thought is they fire everyone during a legal strike (btw you can’t http://www.seiu521.org/members/rights/strike/)

    I offer you a job back only if you accept Tier 2 benefits. Remember, you don’t have to take he job back. The job is contingent on you accepting Tier 2 benefits. Someone will take it if not you.

    Would seem to me that any hiring or re-hiring would have to go through the civil service process unless the legislature approved some sort of suspension of that process.

    Frozen Tier 1 benefits. Tier 2 benefits going forward.

    Mission Accomplished. Next!

    Interesting thought if the first two were not highly problematic. Also you would likely see mass retirement putting more strain on the pension system (like has happened with various early retirement things in the past).


  588. - anon - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 7:33 am:

    And, after all this hand wringing, state employees still have a really, really good gig. Don’t live in a vacuum. compare your job duties and your compensation package to the private sector.

    You will be pleasantly surprised what you have and what you will have.


  589. - OldIllini - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 7:39 am:

    Taxpayers, meaning those not members of AFSCME, dodge a bullet, and Illinois starts to follow the historic anti-union path of Indiana, Michigan and Wisconsin. But there are lots more bullets to come before Illinois gets fiscal sanity back.


  590. - Anonymous - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 7:44 am:

    Just one thing left to say about AFSCME’s failed attempt to change the rules in the middle of the game - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A


  591. - Michelle Flaherty - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 7:58 am:

    Yea tho I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no AFSCME.
    Thy checkbook and thy balance, they comfort me.


  592. - @MisterJayEm - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 7:58 am:

    “AFSCME has to consider what is best for its members…”

    That would be a welcome change.

    – MrJM


  593. - Allen D - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 8:06 am:

    IL State Employees have no room to WHINE about being thrown under the bus when they are ridding on top of a convertible.


  594. - Allen D - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 8:08 am:

    at anon — exactly what I have been saying.
    I will be the first to say that my job title is the very over compensated for what it is and there are tons of us in all DEPT. We make more than the same in any other state or in the private sector. And this isn’t the only one, this is part of the problem with ILLINOIS being broke, so many people feeling they have an “Entitlement” to more, more, MORE…
    When is enough, enough? When do we say, “I am comfortable with what I make, I like my job, I can provide for my family, I am happy, I do not need to take more from the candy jar” EVER? I can say that… I am happy with my job, I am more than happy with my compensation, infact if I have to give some back right now to maintain my job I gladly will because I like my job and like what I do. I do not need to take more as I have enough provided by the taxpayers, I don’t need to put my hand in their pockets anymore.


  595. - Aldyth - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 8:19 am:

    I will state as I have done many times before. Why would anyone in their right mind go to work for the state of Illinois? What consequences are there down the road for not being able to hire quality people, but people who will settle for whatever job they can get?


  596. - Random State worker - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 8:34 am:

    Allen,

    Why do you assume that every State worker is just like you. Surely there are others facing different circumstances.


  597. - The Muse - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 8:34 am:

    A bit late to commenting here but anyone remember the gay marriage bill a few years ago? The Speaker didn’t have the votes at first, but miraculously, after more money came in, he did.

    How much more energized is AFSCME going to be now - and labor for that matter - that Gov. Rauner is doing what he’s doing. Should be an interesting 3 years.


  598. - Allen D - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 8:43 am:

    some people take jobs with the state because they like helping people and if your goal is to help people the best place is in State government, with that being said, many take advantage of that fact as well, and bleed the state for more than is needed. A few that I work with come in early 30-60 minutes almost every day, work through breaks if needed, and stay after for what ever time is need to finish without expecting compensation… We do because are here to help people, we are “PUBLIC SERVANTS” not workers looking to “BLEED THE STATE” to many already do.

    Help your neighbor without putting your hand in his pocket first.


  599. - anon - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 8:48 am:

    Aldyth, read my post at 7:33. That is why.


  600. - From Toi's response to Maze - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 9:21 am:

    Toi W. Hutchinson: If he had come to Springfield and voted no, I could see the principled stance. There were House members who came from hospital beds to be there. The collateral damage was that no less than 5 or 6 additional overrides and the child care billed failed by 1 vote. Many of these bills were previously supported by Republicans and were damn near unanimous the first time, failed because we are deep in a party fight. And for the record the labor bill had no contract in it. All it said was that negotiation couldn’t end in a strike or lock out. That’s it. So the what’s in it for Black people question is fair game for all of the votes we lost because a member didn’t show up. He should have come and voted no in person. We all have lives and planned trips. Many of us have sick family members and other duties besides our legislative careers.


  601. - one of three puppets - Thursday, Sep 3, 15 @ 9:38 am:

    Rnug, poe still wins with or without your support…


Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.


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