With all due respect, Senator Raoul has used this line in the minimum wage debate in committee and the WC arena. Quite frankly its tiring, disrespectful, and below him.
Well, perhaps it was inelegantly put, but Kwame’s not wrong in that Rauner is offering the dems: “you can pick which of your limbs we cut off; that’s fair.”
I think the stalemate is fomenting a strong anti-incumbency feeling in the electorate. But with the maps wired to protect the district’s owning parties, I’d guess we’d just be trading newer state reps of the same party for the old ones.
As Rich showed an example of earlier, Rauner’s demands are radical. Senator Raoul was simply pointing out that compromise, while possible with reasonable proposals, Rauner’s proposals to strip unions of the right to bargain over wages, work hours, promotions and benefits, are not reasonable by any stretch of imagination, and therefore, non-starters. They’re not budget-related either. If they were, he’d have put a dollar amount on them long ago.
Thought Kwame was a better statesman than that. However, look at what the Gov wants to do to teachers and janitors etc. and you can see, but not justify, these statements
1) Wordslinger, Sen. Raoul didn’t tweet that, it was an excerpt from Bill Cameron, not a Tweet from the senator.
2) I would love to know what the context was and what the senator said before and after the excerpt.
3) The outrage over a Black man using a slavery analogy without fully understanding the context and what he said before and after it is absolutely laughable.
Oh, right: Compromise is not a virtue in and of itself.
Here is an idea:
Can we pass a law that says that prevailing wages and collective bargaining rights shall not apply to anyone who votes in Republican primaries? Seems that would both meet Rauner halfway and eliminate any objections since Republicans all support those reforms.
Not the Senator’s usual tone…
but then we don’t normally work in an environment where Katrina is a solution or the Governor cites bills that cause strikes and are found unconstitutional as his rational for action….TeamBungle might be too tame
Rich notes that Sen. Raoul is not known for such outbursts. Agreed, it was in poor taste but, maybe he’s had it with Rauner making the same demands over and over and over…while at the same time saying that he has compromised!
I think Sen Raoul was just trying to make a point… albeit taking it to the extreme. That is how frustrating the entire situation is. You have one guy holding the state hostage and won’t let it go until all of his demands are met. I would call his demands buffoonery at best. Why should anyone meet the gov half way?
Bill Cameron sure has a knack for giving his audience exactly what they want to hear.
He could give them balanced information so they could better understand complicated issues, or he could distract them with incendiary and off-topic sound bytes. Cameron has gone over to the dark side: cynicism.
Not excusing Raoul, who was wrong to compare anything to slavery. I’ve just lost a lot of respect for Cameron over the years and this is one example of why.
I’m with ’slow down’ and others: The items on Rauner’s agenda are intentionally extreme - even more extreme than he probably wants - so that halfway ends up being exactly what he wants, hence a “compromise” on the part of Democrats really means him getting exactly the agenda he desires. Sen. Raoul may have not chosen the best words, but his sentiment is an important one.
- Almost the Weekend - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 1:46 pm:
Why can’t you compare anything to slavery? Says who? Comparing does not equal equating. Raoul didn’t say “the turnaround agenda is the equivalent of slavery”, he said, in essence, “meeting someone halfway is not a good idea when one person is starting at an extreme”.
If he had said “he could say he wants to shoot me in the face! Should I meet him halfway?”, he would not be equating murder with the turnaround agenda, he would be making a point about reasonableness.
I expected better out of Kwame. Instead of taking the high road, as he has in the past, he took the low road. Senator, you’re not helping here by saying these radical and extreme things.
Let’s all slow down a bit. No one said there’s no compromise if one side starts at an extreme position. Just that a compromise would not be meeting “half way.”
Any movement toward the other party is worthwhile in this situation, regardless of starting points. What is not worthwhile is a refusal to move at all.
Both sides seem to be suffering from slippery slope fears, with all-or-nothing footholds.
- Formerly Known As... - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 4:34 pm:
==a comparison between two things, typically on the basis of their structure and for the purpose of explanation or clarification==
Yet when others compare Illinois to Detroit or a bankrupt organization, typically because of their useful similarity for the purposes of rhetorical structure and explanation or clarification, many here ridicule them for fear mongering and correctly point out all the differences between Illinois and those examples.
Sen Raoul’s vitriol does not help and is no more reasonable.
Senator Raoul has been given tons of latitude because he replaced President Obama. Let’s be clear, despite lots of opportunities Raoul has proven himself a really poor imitation of the man he followed. Today’s comment is just another example of this.
Would you guys like it better if he said “what if he wanted me to jump off a bridge should I meet him half way”. Meaning is the same. You shouldn’t have to totally abandon your principals just because the Governor is holding the annual budget process hostage to get his extreme agenda passed. If he wants his agenda passed he needs to win more elections. $20 mil+20 districts+20 radical lap dogs= Utopia (Wisconsin)
- Wordslinger - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 12:42 pm:
Dumb thing to say on the level of Godwin’s law.
Twitter has its uses, but elevating the debate is not one of them.
- the old man - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 12:44 pm:
PLEASE don’t go there, Raoul
- Phenomynous - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 12:44 pm:
Cue OW fake tweets @#fakesenraoul in:
…3
…2
Don’t disappoint me Willy
…1
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 12:45 pm:
“You’re not helping”
Sinking lower only keeps the whole conversation lower.
- slow down - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 12:46 pm:
The point is provocative but not crazy. How can you meet someone halfway on something you believe you can’t possibly ever agree to?
- Louis G. Atsaves - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 12:47 pm:
Raoul also used the “slavery” pitch to decry Workers’ Compensation reform when his committee held a hearing on that subject.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 12:49 pm:
- Phenomynous -
With respect, I guessing you like(?) the fake Twitter gag, I cant recall a time I used that “bit” that under “slavery” or racial comments made.
Again, with respect.
- Keyrock - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 12:52 pm:
For a while, Sen. Raoul seemed to be getting along with the Governor better than most Democrats. I guess that’s no longer true.
- Wordslinger - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 12:54 pm:
SD, the point is, you can make your point just fine on the actual issues, without the offensive and hysterical slave master metaphor.
The object of the exercise is to convince others that you and your position are the most reasonable.
Stupid Twitter drive bys don’t advance the ball, and give the other guys a club to whale on you.
- 4 percent - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 12:55 pm:
With all due respect, Senator Raoul has used this line in the minimum wage debate in committee and the WC arena. Quite frankly its tiring, disrespectful, and below him.
He should apologize.
- Newsclown - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 12:56 pm:
Well, perhaps it was inelegantly put, but Kwame’s not wrong in that Rauner is offering the dems: “you can pick which of your limbs we cut off; that’s fair.”
I think the stalemate is fomenting a strong anti-incumbency feeling in the electorate. But with the maps wired to protect the district’s owning parties, I’d guess we’d just be trading newer state reps of the same party for the old ones.
- Tom S. - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 12:57 pm:
I would put this in the same category as McQueary’s Katrina column.
We get your point, but please find a more reasonable way of making it.
- OneMan - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 1:00 pm:
Looking forward to the multiple day twitter outrage like followed that column, not expecting to see it however.
- PublicServant - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 1:10 pm:
As Rich showed an example of earlier, Rauner’s demands are radical. Senator Raoul was simply pointing out that compromise, while possible with reasonable proposals, Rauner’s proposals to strip unions of the right to bargain over wages, work hours, promotions and benefits, are not reasonable by any stretch of imagination, and therefore, non-starters. They’re not budget-related either. If they were, he’d have put a dollar amount on them long ago.
- Chicago 20 - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 1:12 pm:
There are a lot of parallels on the subject.
There has to be a reason why the original base of “right to work” States were all slave states.
It’s an unfortunate mindset that still prevails today that workers should not have the right to bargain collectively, or a voice in the workplace.
- Wow - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 1:13 pm:
Thought Kwame was a better statesman than that. However, look at what the Gov wants to do to teachers and janitors etc. and you can see, but not justify, these statements
- wndycty - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 1:14 pm:
1) Wordslinger, Sen. Raoul didn’t tweet that, it was an excerpt from Bill Cameron, not a Tweet from the senator.
2) I would love to know what the context was and what the senator said before and after the excerpt.
3) The outrage over a Black man using a slavery analogy without fully understanding the context and what he said before and after it is absolutely laughable.
- Just Me - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 1:17 pm:
Definitely over the top. The Senator should apologize at once.
- Juvenal - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 1:17 pm:
I am sorry…what was the answer to the question?
Oh, right: Compromise is not a virtue in and of itself.
Here is an idea:
Can we pass a law that says that prevailing wages and collective bargaining rights shall not apply to anyone who votes in Republican primaries? Seems that would both meet Rauner halfway and eliminate any objections since Republicans all support those reforms.
Ditto on term limits.
- context? - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 1:18 pm:
An excerpt of a radio interview? We should see the whole context of what he was responding to, please.
- Pawnee - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 1:20 pm:
4 percent,
If he has a history of taking this angle, maybe it’s not below him at all. Maybe it’s who he is.
- Anonin' - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 1:23 pm:
Not the Senator’s usual tone…
but then we don’t normally work in an environment where Katrina is a solution or the Governor cites bills that cause strikes and are found unconstitutional as his rational for action….TeamBungle might be too tame
- Anonymous - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 1:23 pm:
==If he has a history of taking this angle, maybe it’s not below him at all. Maybe it’s who he is.==
This. He is who he is, and when it comes to outbursts like this he shows himself to be a fool
- Norseman - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 1:24 pm:
=== The vitriol is really spreading fast. ===
Yes it is! Sigh.
- 10th ward - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 1:24 pm:
dumb statement, will be interesting if the Senator “clarifies” his remarks?
- Anon - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 1:29 pm:
He should not apologize, the Senator used a rhetorical device to illustrate a point in a way that common people will understand.
- Former Hoosier - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 1:29 pm:
Rich notes that Sen. Raoul is not known for such outbursts. Agreed, it was in poor taste but, maybe he’s had it with Rauner making the same demands over and over and over…while at the same time saying that he has compromised!
- Anonymous - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 1:30 pm:
Rauner is the one who should apologize, he’s not one of the people out there that are hurting currently. I don’t blame Senator Raoul for what he said.
- Ducky LaMoore - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 1:32 pm:
I think Sen Raoul was just trying to make a point… albeit taking it to the extreme. That is how frustrating the entire situation is. You have one guy holding the state hostage and won’t let it go until all of his demands are met. I would call his demands buffoonery at best. Why should anyone meet the gov half way?
- 47th Ward - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 1:33 pm:
Bill Cameron sure has a knack for giving his audience exactly what they want to hear.
He could give them balanced information so they could better understand complicated issues, or he could distract them with incendiary and off-topic sound bytes. Cameron has gone over to the dark side: cynicism.
Not excusing Raoul, who was wrong to compare anything to slavery. I’ve just lost a lot of respect for Cameron over the years and this is one example of why.
- A Jack - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 1:33 pm:
Well darn-it, if Raoul had run for governor, we might not be in this mess.
- s2qs - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 1:34 pm:
I’m with ’slow down’ and others: The items on Rauner’s agenda are intentionally extreme - even more extreme than he probably wants - so that halfway ends up being exactly what he wants, hence a “compromise” on the part of Democrats really means him getting exactly the agenda he desires. Sen. Raoul may have not chosen the best words, but his sentiment is an important one.
- Almost the Weekend - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 1:46 pm:
So about that FY 2018 budget…
- Enviro - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 1:48 pm:
Senator Raoul made a good response to the
governor’s extreme turnaround agenda demands.
The governor should apologize.
- Precinct Captain - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 1:56 pm:
Word, Raoul didn’t say it on Twitter.
Also not the first time Raoul has brought it up
http://www.wlsam.com/2015/05/27/rauners-turnaround-agenda-being-heard/
- Formerly Known As... - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 2:41 pm:
Our current bondage is caused not by a first-year Governor, but by decades of Illinois debt and bad government.
- Formerly Known As... - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 2:54 pm:
==the Senator used a rhetorical device to illustrate a point in a way that common people will understand==
Comparisons to second graders and bondage today, what comes tomorrow?
Chapa la Via parroting ==half== of Sen Raoul’s comment? Maybe someone can make a comparison to the Axis powers? Ugh.
- James Knell - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 3:02 pm:
Our current bondage is caused not only by a first-year Governor, but by decades of under-taxation. Look it up 3%.
- chi - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 3:05 pm:
Analogy-a comparison between two things, typically on the basis of their structure and for the purpose of explanation or clarification.
Raoul’s analogy clarifies the vacuity of Rauner’s “they’re not bargaining with me” trope. It’s not “unstatesman-like”. Give me a break.
- chi - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 3:12 pm:
=who was wrong to compare anything to slavery=
Why can’t you compare anything to slavery? Says who? Comparing does not equal equating. Raoul didn’t say “the turnaround agenda is the equivalent of slavery”, he said, in essence, “meeting someone halfway is not a good idea when one person is starting at an extreme”.
If he had said “he could say he wants to shoot me in the face! Should I meet him halfway?”, he would not be equating murder with the turnaround agenda, he would be making a point about reasonableness.
- Anon2U - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 3:32 pm:
I expected better out of Kwame. Instead of taking the high road, as he has in the past, he took the low road. Senator, you’re not helping here by saying these radical and extreme things.
- Chi - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 3:57 pm:
What’s radical or extreme about what he said?
- Formerly Known As... - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 4:09 pm:
==Look it up 3%==
Except for the years it was 5%, and all was not well.
And that our current increase to 3.75% is still ==not enough==.
- walker - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 4:15 pm:
Let’s all slow down a bit. No one said there’s no compromise if one side starts at an extreme position. Just that a compromise would not be meeting “half way.”
Any movement toward the other party is worthwhile in this situation, regardless of starting points. What is not worthwhile is a refusal to move at all.
Both sides seem to be suffering from slippery slope fears, with all-or-nothing footholds.
- Formerly Known As... - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 4:34 pm:
==a comparison between two things, typically on the basis of their structure and for the purpose of explanation or clarification==
Yet when others compare Illinois to Detroit or a bankrupt organization, typically because of their useful similarity for the purposes of rhetorical structure and explanation or clarification, many here ridicule them for fear mongering and correctly point out all the differences between Illinois and those examples.
Sen Raoul’s vitriol does not help and is no more reasonable.
- Mama - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 5:42 pm:
Y’all are making a mountain out of a mole hill. His comparison makes a great point. Would you compromise with someone who intends to inflict harm?
- Now What? - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 6:41 pm:
Not a fan of the Senator, but nice to see a pulse from a Democrat.
- Georg Sande - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 7:28 pm:
Senator Raoul has been given tons of latitude because he replaced President Obama. Let’s be clear, despite lots of opportunities Raoul has proven himself a really poor imitation of the man he followed. Today’s comment is just another example of this.
- GOP Extremist - Thursday, Oct 8, 15 @ 8:48 pm:
Would you guys like it better if he said “what if he wanted me to jump off a bridge should I meet him half way”. Meaning is the same. You shouldn’t have to totally abandon your principals just because the Governor is holding the annual budget process hostage to get his extreme agenda passed. If he wants his agenda passed he needs to win more elections. $20 mil+20 districts+20 radical lap dogs= Utopia (Wisconsin)