40 Comments - New Slang - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 9:31 am: #RollTide So happy to send my kid to out of state college. #RollingMyButt outta here later this year. - Downstater - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 9:33 am: The state should not allow students to apply for MAP grants if there is no funding provided for the program. - Dublin - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 9:37 am: Why are we using public money for private universities in the first place? Just another reason our public universities struggle. What’s next? Vouchers? - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 9:46 am: ===Why are we using public money for private universities in the first place? Just another reason our public universities struggle.=== If our state universities are fully funded, there would be no worry about “competing” against private universities, and further, seats are seats, they’re finite. Having students stay in Illinois for college, be it DePaul, Dominican University, whatever, it allows Illinois to keep talent in the state and allowing qualified students to attend school with monetary awards helping the schools and students. It’s April, and right now, senior students are looking forward to college, and Illinois right now sends the 2nd most students “elsewhere” for higher education. Illinois might face a third year with Rauner refusing to fully fund higher education. I hear that Rauner Library at Dartmouth is something to see, rare books and all. The Rauner Dormitory gives you a “rare” look how Ivy League schools have donors put their names on buildings. Illinois governors use to build buildings on state universities. Bruce Rauner, I guess wants his name, in spray paint, on the boarded up windows of Illinois universities closed by him? - Markus - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 9:47 am: The State should not be allowed to execute any contract or at least prohibit authorizing the start of work under the contract without an appropriation covering the contract. - Earnest - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 9:47 am: Sorry, students and colleges, but know that your suffering keeps the pressure on for, I don’t know, some kind of reason really important to someone. I suggest you branch out by moving out of state and providing overpriced IT services. - cannon649 - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 9:51 am: All education is a world of pain currently (unless you are on private school waiting list) However As a credit person, actual cash is required. Government continues to spend without funds in place. The “kick the can” funding has “worked” somewhat but at what long term cost? We are going to find out soon. - Nick - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 9:52 am: My kids will not be attending any il public or private university So sad - 47th Ward - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 9:54 am: ===What’s next? Vouchers?=== You’re as sharp as a marble there Dublin. MAP is a voucher program Einstein. And unless Illinois wants to build 10-12 more public universities, which would cost billions, then the state better keep funding the MAP program or there will be almost no college students left in Illinois. Look at it this way: before Rauner, the state spent about $1.6 billion to support all of the public universities and community colleges. Then it spent about $400 million on MAP. MAP goes to students of public universities and community colleges too. In return for that investment, these public colleges produce about 50,000 graduates per year. Community colleges produce about 56,000 degrees/credentials per year. The private non-profit schools split about $200 million in MAP funds, but produce more graduates each year, roughly 64,000. In other words, the state spends roughly $1.8 billion on public universities and community colleges. For $200 million more, the state increases the number of graduates by nearly 50%. That’s the best money the state spends. And yes, it’s a voucher. The money follows the student. It encourages competition for students and provides them with choice in the marketplace. Those use to be good things, things Republicans valued. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 9:55 am: Part of the plan, in action. The lunacy is, some buy the whopper that all these malignant actions are being undertaken to “grow the economy.” Don’t pay billions in bills, resulting in thousands of layoffs; neglect infrastructure for lack of a capital plan; reduce post-high-school continuing education opportunities. That’s an economic plan if the model is 1930s Mississippi. Downstate is getting beaten like a rented mule. - illini - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 10:00 am: @47th - facts are hard to argue with. Well stated. - Puddintaine - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 10:15 am: First they financially strangled the ivory safe space towers, but I said nothing, because… - Dublin - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 10:35 am: 47th: I’m sure your explanation is outstanding, but you lose when you start it with this ===You’re as sharp as a marble there Dublin. MAP is a voucher program Einstein.=== - 47th Ward - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 10:39 am: If you spent five minutes doing some homework before you leave a comment, you’d save me some time and yourself some embarrassment. - Precinct Captain - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 10:40 am: Bruce Rauner, the education governor! - siriusly - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 10:44 am: Rauner’s “tear it down agenda” includes closing 1-2 regional public universities, bleeding them to death, not via statute or deliberate public policy. So I’m sure he’s fine with a few small privates folding too - local jobs and educational opportunities be-dammed! - Texas Red - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 10:58 am: Look North my friends, the universities in Wisconsin(outside of UW Madison) are putting out the red carpet to Illinois students. - Interim Retiree - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 11:11 am: Everyone complains how we are losing people, including students, to other states. So what are we doing about it? Make things worse so more will move out. UGGH. Also, I understand I’m not the sharpest person out here, but can we do without the arrogance from both sides? Thanks. - Dublin - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 11:18 am: ===The private non-profit schools split about $200 million in MAP funds, but produce more graduates each year, roughly 64,000. In other words, the state spends roughly $1.8 billion on public universities and community colleges. For $200 million more, the state increases the number of graduates by nearly 50%. That’s the best money the state spends.=== This argument is a false equivalence. Maybe you should do a little more homework yourself. MAP grants do not produce the 64,000 additional graduates. Those graduates would be produced with or without MAP grants. The money from MAP grants just goes to line pockets. Meanwhile, our public universities starve. - don the legend - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 11:20 am: I’m sure Rauner will address this on his non campaign-campaign. Besides it’s that invisible mean old Speaker’s fault, right LP? - NoGifts - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 11:21 am: I’m very sad that my son has to start college at an Illinois university this fall during these hard times. It is truly shameful what the governor has done to this state. - Ginhouse Tommy - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 11:23 am: When my father in law went to the U of I in the late 40’s, early 50’s the U of I had the second largest library in the country. Library of Congress was first. Harvard and Yale have since passed it. That says something about how values its library. 4th in the country isn’t bad. - 47th Ward - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 11:25 am: Dublin, MAP has an income-based eligibility, meaning only low income students receive MAP. There are currently about 128,000 MAP recipients enrolled in public, private and community colleges. Do you really think that the public universities could absorb these students if MAP was restricted to public schools? Even if they could absorb these students, do you think they want to? Do you think that’s the best policy for the state? - 47th Ward - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 11:36 am: Dublin, I can tell your explanation is a pile of biased ignorance when you conclude it with this: ===The money from MAP grants just goes to line pockets. Meanwhile, our public universities starve.=== MAP is keeping poor students enrolled in college, and it isn’t diverting a nickle from public universities. Those are facts. - blue dog dem - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 11:52 am: Now…..which college is offering scholarships for video gaming? - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 11:59 am: ===Now…..which college is offering scholarships for video gaming?=== The University of Utah. A “Red” state. Next time, use the Google yourself. - JS Mill - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 12:19 pm: =Those graduates would be produced with or without MAP grants.= Just a question for clarification.. How would they graduate if they don’t go? Just curious? - G'Kar - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 12:24 pm: Blue dog keeps trying to chew the same old bone. He somehow wants to equate MAP grants with Illinois College, a private institution, offering scholarships for competitive video gaming. His argument is a non-starter. MAP Grants are tuition and fee based. If a student has a full ride scholarship, then he/she would not be eligible for a MAP Grant. Likewise, Dublin is mistaken when he/she argues that MAP Grants just go to “line pockets.” The money is applied directly to the cost of tuition–the student never sees the actual money. - Blue dog dem - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 12:28 pm: OW I care less who offers the ‘curriculum ‘. What a joke. Next thing ya know, some bankrupt higher ed institution will be paying big fees for a commencement speech What next. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 12:30 pm: ===I care less who offers the ‘curriculum ‘.=== Then stop wasting everyone’s time by asking questions you don’t want the answer for. That’s the joke. ===Next thing ya know, some bankrupt higher ed institution will be paying big fees for a commencement speech=== Your gaming scholarship question and this drive-by aren’t the same. You need to be less “cute” in your rhetorical connections. They aren’t working. - 47th Ward - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 12:33 pm: ===‘curriculum ‘=== You’re showing your age BD. Video gaming is one of the hottest tech fields you can get into. Companies can’t hire enough of these kids, and yes, kids. They know which games are cool and why. This type of training practically guarantees them a high paying job. Not everything has to be made in China or Japan Blue Dog. But unless we train our workforce to compete, we’ll just end up consuming imported games, cars, shoes, phones, etc. - Blue dog dem - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 12:36 pm: Talk about wasting time, arent you one of the kool-ade drinkers still commenting on a budget? Why dont you help the gov,speaker and tax payers and expose some waste,fraud and abuse. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 12:39 pm: ===Talk about wasting time, arent you one of the kool-ade drinkers still commenting on a budget?=== Are you saying the state doesn’t need a budget. Please, nap, take your meds. We need a budget. Thinking otherwise disqualifies you from talking rationally. There’s not $7 billion, $12 billion, ANY billion in waste, fraud and abuse. Think that any budget now is completed by just ending waste, fraud, and abuse, yikes man, you might be in over your head. - Blue dog dem - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 12:56 pm: OW,.Hoppy Easter by the way. Reading and reading comprehension are different animals. As stated many times, its not if i want a budget, rather, if there will be one before the next election. Secondly, if you dont think there is a billion or so of nonessentials in the last budget…well we certainly are in disagreement. Lastly, as I’ve stated many,many times, the only real, lasting revenue increase is that of a progressive income tax. I strongly support. Knowing this gov is in full reelection mode, both a budget and progressive income tax could happen at the same time. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 1:28 pm: Happy Easter to you and yours, - blue dog dem -… === Secondly, if you dont think there is a billion or so of nonessentials in the last budget…well we certainly are in disagreement=== Budgets are online, get to that billion,l if you’d like to make your point. === Lastly, as I’ve stated many,many times, the only real, lasting revenue increase is that of a progressive income tax. I strongly support. Knowing this gov is in full reelection mode, both a budget and progressive income tax could happen at the same time.=== That is still 2 years away, even if it passes in 2018, and implemented for 2019. Help needs to occur quicker, and a budget is helpful since it is a fundamental of governing. - Because I said so..... - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 2:00 pm: MAP grants also go to students at for profit colleges and universities. That practice needs to end. - Rod - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 2:38 pm: Willy your post above discussing the correlation between being an in state college student and post-graduation residing in that state was interesting and raised some questions for me as someone who has been involved in the politics of education in Illinois and Chicago for many years. Migration rates for college-educated people are roughly twice the rate of non-college graduate regardless of the state of residency and where they received their k-12 education in the USA based on the best data available. The flows of young college graduates out of a state can often be replaced by flows of young college graduates moving into a metro area like Chicago. The problem that many non-costal states face is that young college graduates moving into the state aren’t keeping up with those that are leaving. Illinois is not one of those states losing college graduates interestingly according to an article in the NY Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/22/upshot/the-states-that-college-graduates-are-most-likely-to-leave.html ) The major reason seems to be is that the City of Chicago is a college graduate magnet of sorts. College graduates aged 25 to 34 now make up about 17% of the adult population of the City of Chicago as a whole, whereas the national average of college graduates aged 25-34 is 5.2 percent of the adult population. The data is even more intense if you look at what are called “close-in neighborhoods,” those places within a few miles of the center of each metropolitan area’s primary central business district. In Chicago we are talking about areas like Lakeview, the community around Wrigley Field, Bucktown, etc. The college attainment rate of young adults living in close-in neighborhoods in the nation’s largest metropolitan areas has increased to 55 percent from 43 percent in 2000. The Chicago metropolitan area is one of the best large metro areas in the USA for retaining their college graduates collected data on where college and university grads reside from LinkedIn’s alumni profiles, which list the most common urban locations of alumni. (see http://www.citylab.com/work/2016/03/which-metros-are-best-at-keeping-their-college-graduates/473604/ ) The better the college the student graduates from it appears the more mobile the graduate is likely to be, so just 36 percent of grads from the University of Chicago stay in the Chicago metro area. I have not been able to find any real data showing that in state college students are more likely post-graduation reside in their state of k-12 education than students educated out of state. So I really don’t know if Willy is right about that. But he did raise an interesting issue when he referred to state colleges keeping talent in Illinois. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 2:41 pm: - Rod - I will respond to your very thoughtful comment at some point, probably tomorrow morning, as I going to be “out” here in minutes. You too have made great points, but to be fair to both of us, I can’t respond now thoughtfully to your comment. Check back tomorrow. With respect, OW - DuPage - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 2:53 pm: Many, including Illinois State University and Lincoln College, fronted the money to students this academic year so they could enroll, hoping the state eventually will come through, as it did last year. Typo. they probably meant Illinois Wesleyan University which is private, (Illinois State University is public). - 47th Ward - Wednesday, Apr 12, 17 @ 3:09 pm: ===fronted the money to students this academic year so they could enroll, hoping the state eventually will come through, as it did last year.=== ISAC requires, by law, all schools to notify the student of the estimated award prior to school starting. There is a several month lag period between when ISAC makes the awards and when the General Assembly passes a budget. In recent years, that lag time has made it impossible to do anything but “cover” for the state’s default on the awards to these students. Again, the schools are required to notify the students of how much MAP money they can expect (subject to appropriation) before the money is even available to ISAC. The colleges are keeping the promises made by ISAC. The alternative is to send these students a bill, when had they known, they might not have enrolled in the first place. Some schools are better able than others to keep this charade going, but ultimately these students are being lied to. Cutting MAP simply means they’ll have to borrow more, if they can. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.