Today, the Thomas More Society filed a taxpayer lawsuit against State of Illinois officials in a counterattack against House Bill 40, which requires public funding of tens of thousands of elective abortions. The taxpayer lawsuit, filed in the Sangamon County Circuit Court, is brought on behalf of hundreds of thousands of Illinois taxpayers, represented by county and statewide pro-life organizations, the Springfield Catholic Diocese, and a group of Illinois legislators from across the state.
“The people of Illinois totally reject taxpayer-funded abortions,” stated Thomas More Society Special Counsel Peter Breen, who drafted the lawsuit. “Under HB 40, Illinoisans will be forced to pay for 20,000 to 30,000 abortions per year with their tax dollars. Even apart from the sincere moral objections that many folks have to paying for abortions, there is no money in this year’s Illinois state budget to pay for them. And, because of games played by Senate Democrats, in holding HB 40 until late September, after the May 31 cutoff for legislative action, this bill can’t be effective until June 1, not January 1.” Breen also serves as state representative for Illinois’ 48th District.
The complaint levels two challenges against HB 40. First, the General Assembly has not set aside funds to pay for HB 40’s tens of thousands of elective abortions, and there’s no money available to pay for those abortions and still be within the Balanced Budget requirements of the Illinois Constitution. Second, despite efforts to make HB 40 effective January 1, 2018, it cannot come into effect until June 1, because it did not pass out of the Senate until September 25, 2017. The Illinois Constitution imposes a May 31 cut-off date for General Assembly action for bills to go into effect faster.
If implemented, despite its illegality, HB 40 would force every Illinoisan to pay for free abortions for those on Medicaid and state employee health insurance. This would apply through the full nine months of pregnancy and for any reason, even when the latest scientific research has shown that the unborn child can feel pain and survive outside the womb.
There is no cap on the number of abortions that could be covered under Medicaid and no cap on the amount of taxpayer dollars spent on these procedures. Based on recent figures from the Department of Healthcare and Family Services showing a cost of up to $1000 per Medicaid abortion, state government spending on abortions could range anywhere from $15 million to $30 million.
The State of Illinois is unique in having a tradition of allowing taxpayer lawsuits, which are brought by private individuals to protect the public treasury. Illinois law requires such a suit to be brought by a petition for leave to file a complaint. The petition in this case has been set for hearing before Associate Judge Brian T. Otwell, on Thursday, December 7, at 10:30 a.m., at the Sangamon County Courthouse.
“Regardless of your feelings about abortion, it is incredibly fiscally irresponsible to enact a law designed to spend millions of dollars that Illinois does not have,” said Breen. “The state legislative process has steps that must be correctly followed in order to prevent budget-busting laws like this from being ramrodded through. It is part of our civic process of checks and balances.”
The Illinois legislators bringing the lawsuit include:
● Representative Barbara Wheeler, District 64
● Representative Mark Batinick, District 97
● Representative Steve Reick, District 63
● Representative Keith Wheeler, District 50
● Senator Dale Fowler, District 59
● Senator Kyle McCarter, District 54
● Senator Dan McConchie, District 26
● Senator Paul Schimpf, District 58
The pro-life groups listed on the complaint include:
● Pro-Life Action League, Inc.
● Springfield Right to Life
● Clinton County Citizens For Life
● Henry County Right to Life, Inc.
● Knox County Right to Life, NFP
● Lake County Right to Life Committee, Inc.
● Morgan County Right to Life, Inc., NFP
● Pro-Life Action League, Inc.
● Illinois Right to Life Action
● Illinois Federation for Right to Life
The above listed legislators and groups are joined in this action by:
● Diocese of Springfield In Illinois
Read the Petition for Leave to File a Taxpayer Action to Restrain and Enjoin the Disbursement of Public Funds and the Taxpayer Complaint to Restrain and Enjoin the Disbursement of Public Funds here.
Seems like a long shot at best, but you never know with the courts.
Passing HB 40 was an important milestone in the protection of a woman’s right to choose. Now a far-right-wing organization wants to undo the progress made by the Illinois General Assembly and throw out this vital law. They must be stopped.
This lawsuit demonstrates how critical it is that we elect an Attorney General who will fight for a woman’s right to make her own reproductive choices. As your Attorney General, I will be a champion for women’s rights, including the right to access contraception and safe, legal abortion.
I know that Attorney General Madigan will stand up strongly to this wrongheaded lawsuit, and I feel confident that our courts will overturn this extreme attempt to endanger women’s health in Illinois.
- Montrose - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:06 pm:
If I am thinking about right, a court finding in favor of the first argument regarding the balanced budget amendment would have a huge impact on the legislative process. I don’t think they will, but that decision would be much bigger than HB40.
- The Captain - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:07 pm:
If the lawsuit was successful on this item would that not apply to all unfunded mandates? I’d be interested to read/hear the thoughts on that from other attorneys or those who have experience in this issue.
- hisgirlfriday - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:12 pm:
Seems to me the logic behind the argument that the legislation violates IL’s balanced budget provisions as there’s no money to pay for it could be used to invalidate every law we have on the books that requires taxpayer funds where Rauner refuses to spend money in an amount that funds have actually been appropriated.
- Flip357 - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:13 pm:
It’s pretty obvious that the suit is going to have HUGE standing issues.
Plaintiff’s lawyers response? Name everyone, maybe one will stick.
- Anonymous - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:14 pm:
I would choose not to pay for abortions or birth control for others. Do not like my tax dollars paying for these items (and many others actually).
- A guy - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:19 pm:
A bill never designed to pass that reached the Governor’s desk…
Maybe the cuteness will end.
The argument is valid.
- CoozieSusie - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:21 pm:
This bill helps the less fortunate. Wealthy women can go to their doctor in secret and move on. Why punish the less fortunate? Why do men even have a say what happens to a woman’s body? What gives them the right to tell a woman what to do? You don’t know why the woman is seeking to terminate her pregnancy. Could be financial reasons, could be that its none of your business. No uterus, no say.
- hisgirlfriday - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:21 pm:
Also how does the Diocese of Springfield and all these pro-life non-profits even have standing?
The statute says these lawsuits may be filed by either 1. attorney general or 2. any citizen AND taxpayer of IL.
These non-profits should be dismissed as plaintiffs.
- RNUG - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:22 pm:
I don’t expect the balanced budget argument would prevail … but at the same time, I hope it does because of it’s wide ranging implications on all ungudgeted / unfunded mandates.
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:22 pm:
No uterus, no say.
THIS
- RNUG - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:25 pm:
== Also how does the Diocese of Springfield and all these pro-life non-profits even have standing? ==
Thanks to Citizens United, any corporate entity is a “citizen”.
And even if they didn’t have standing, the Bishop as a private citizen would.
- hisgirlfriday - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:28 pm:
RNUG - The first amendment and SCOTUS’s post-Citizens United rulings deals with the rights of corporations as persons.
The word citizen has a different meaning than person.
- Sillinois - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:29 pm:
- No uterus, no say -
Agreed, until you ask me to pay for it, then it is 100% my say.
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:31 pm:
“Agreed, until you ask me to pay for it, then it is 100% my say.”
Get over it. I don’t want to pay outrageous benefits and pensions to state workers. Where’s my say?
- cdog - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:35 pm:
One of the most significant things, to me, in this argument is, “This would apply through the full nine months of pregnancy and for any reason, even when the latest scientific research has shown that the unborn child can feel pain and survive outside the womb.”
If we made a rule and called it the “Extermination of all Marginal Case Humans,” it would not be accepted by most people.
But that is what abortion is, especially after viability.
This will be very interesting.
- NeverPoliticallyCorrect - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:36 pm:
It’s not what is happening to a woman’s body, it’s what’s happening to the human that is living there. The woman isn’t being killed, it’s the baby that is being killed.
- A guy - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:37 pm:
==Get over it. I don’t want to pay outrageous benefits and pensions to state workers. Where’s my say?===
Do you want to terminate their lives, or just the benefits?
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:40 pm:
More anti abortion non sense. The fetus can’t live without the mother’s body.
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:41 pm:
All the pro lifers need to come up with and fund massive test tube farms for unwanted fetuses. Or keep quiet.
- Gooner - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:42 pm:
You would think that a religious group would care about honesty.
Abortion through nine months? That’s not accurate, and they know it.
How disappointing.
- Anonymous - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:43 pm:
== The word citizen has a different meaning than person. ==
It’s the eventually conclusion. We’ll see how far the courts go with this one …
- RNUG - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:45 pm:
== I don’t want to pay outrageous benefits and pensions to state workers. ==
Different situation. You benefit from the work state employees do.
== Where’s my say? ==
At the ballot box through the legislators you help elect.
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:45 pm:
Gooner, the religious right has never been honest. Nor are conservatives.
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:47 pm:
Different situation
Wrong, I benefit from not having unwanted people in society. I hardly get any benefit from the vast majority of state workers. Certainly at the cost for the service.
An abortion is like $200.
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:49 pm:
I love that the so called liberals love to bleed us dry to pay outrageous amounts to support a coddled workforce, yet paying for a $200 simple medical procedure for a poor women is terrible.
- Actual Red - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:51 pm:
Cdog –
Abortion after viability is already banned except in cases where the mother’s life is in danger. This statute is not affected by HB40. While HB40 does not explicitly exclude funding for late term abortions, it’s irrelevant because they are illegal anyway.
- A guy - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:52 pm:
==Wrong, I benefit from not having unwanted people in society.==
And yet, you’re here.
Were your roads navigable this morning? Traffic Lights work? Did thousands of people providing every day services show up to work today? You’re dismissive of quite a bit today.
- A guy - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 12:55 pm:
==- No uterus, no say -==
Roughly half the victims have one.
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 1:03 pm:
Most of those services could be provided at much lower cost than our current system provides for.
A guy should start a test tube farm and harvest unwanted fetuses.
- Amalia - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 1:05 pm:
woman’s choice. women’s lives. real life women matter.
- TominChicago - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 1:07 pm:
How can the Archdiocese have standing to bring a taxpayer suit when it pays no taxes?
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 1:09 pm:
TominChicago, Churches are ridiculous institutions that should be taxed just like the rest of us.
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 1:17 pm:
those southern baptist preachers are the worst
- cdog - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 1:20 pm:
Ron, how do you feel about Catholics, Lutherans, Muslims, and Buddhists?
Just Christophobia, or all of the above too?
- Perrid - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 1:21 pm:
@ Actual Red -”Abortion after viability is already banned except in cases where the mother’s life is in danger.”
Federally yes that’s true, but now the state can pay for elective abortions under HB40. Medicaid can already, right now and today, pay for medically necessary abortions and get federal match for it, if they have all the paper work in order. This expands it. If I remember correctly Rich had an article about when the law can go into effect, because Durkin asked AG madigan to wiegh in on it, and I thought that since the bill that was finally passed, with the veto, was the same bill that passed earlier the it technically passed before the May 31 deadline. Am I remembering that right?
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 1:29 pm:
All religious institutions in the US should be taxed. Of course some are worse than others.
- VanillaMan - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 1:36 pm:
Abortions target minorities and women. White women aborted mixed race babies far more often than white babies. All women abort female babies more than male babies. Unrestricted abortions permit race and gender discrimination in deciding who lives and who dies.
Abortions are often used to cover up rapes and child abuse. Unrestricted abortions cover up crimes and permits continued victimization of girls and young women.
That’s wrong and immoral.
It is time to stop unrestricted abortions.
Rauner raised our taxes and makes up pay for these life-ending procedures.
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 1:39 pm:
It’s far cheaper to pay $200 than to have a lifetime of an unwanted person around.
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 1:39 pm:
It’s criminal and immoral to force women to give birth.
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 1:40 pm:
The GA raised taxes. Rauner vetoed it.
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 1:40 pm:
More lies from the religious right.
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 1:42 pm:
I’m not sure why I must be forced to take serious the morality of those that think a god came to earth to commit suicide in order to save mankind.
- Shark Sandwich - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 1:43 pm:
Noone probably wants to say it out loud until they have to, but this is probably budget neutral if not a large savings when balanced against the cost of 1-18 years of care for the unborn child.
- Joe Bidenopolous - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 1:44 pm:
Aside from the simple morality that poor women should be able to make the same health care choices as rich women, there’s this:
There is an offset. Even if “tens of thousands” of Medicaid abortions happened (a ridiculous notion), you know what that means? Tens of thousands fewer infants on Medicaid.
Can any parents out there tell us whether an abortion or an infant is more expensive? Oh wait, I’m a parent. Health care for the birth and the infant is infinitely more expensive.
- Chris Widger - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 1:55 pm:
The best argument for abortion was never the silly viability argument. It’s a self-defense and bodily autonomy argument, simple as that. If you’re a pro-life person who believes it’s okay to have a speed limit on any road above 20 MPH, you’re also complicit in death.
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 1:56 pm:
Giving birth alone costs over $10K. An abortion is $200.
- Demoralized - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 1:57 pm:
==I benefit from not having unwanted people in society==
Did you just flippantly dismiss abortion because you somehow believe you’re better off financially because of an abortion? Are you serious? Unbelievable.
==I hardly get any benefit from the vast majority of state workers. ==
Dude, you really need to get past this hatred.
- Demoralized - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 1:57 pm:
Ron
You’re being pretty disgusting on this post with your ignorant comments.
- Ajjacksson - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 1:58 pm:
Ron, I have many disagreements with your politics. But for your own sake, please stop your caustic comments about Christ. It’s not really appropriate here, and it certainly won’t do you any spiritual good.
- Gooner - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 2:06 pm:
Ajackson,
You need to understand that many of us do not believe in your invisible friend and are not wild about arguments that boil down to “my friend who lives in the sky said so.”
A few of us here are trying to be respectful but comments like those you have made cause us to cringe.
If those of you who support Rep Breen could do so without relying on religion some of us might take your argument seems b
- People Over Parties - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 2:12 pm:
===Unrestricted abortions permit race and gender discrimination in deciding who lives and who dies.===
What an absurd argument.
- Robert the 1st - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 2:12 pm:
The Bible never mentions abortion. People who don’t like usually consider it murder.
- cdog - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 2:13 pm:
Ron, your hate speech directed towards Christians is “off the chain.”
Do you have a one-liner with that type of hateful venom queued up for Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists?
Back to the HB40 arguments. There is secular argument against abortion because it deprives future value, from Don Marquis “Why Abortion Is Immoral.”
- Gooner - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 2:18 pm:
Cdog,
How is that “hate speech”? By disagreeing with your religious views, it means Ron hates based on religion?
- Downstate Rube - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 2:18 pm:
If the argument is this saves the state money in the long run, maybe we should reinstate the death penalty. Lot’s of money to be saved.
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 2:23 pm:
Most religions I have encountered are silly. I’m just continually exposed to the christian variety, as I live in the US so it gets to me more.
I don’t hate christians, the vast majority of my family is christian. I love all of my family. I do think the religion is beyond silly though as I explained in one simple statement that encapsulates how bizarre the religion is.
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 2:24 pm:
“maybe we should reinstate the death penalty”
maybe? of course we should
- VanillaMan - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 2:26 pm:
The reason the 20th century was so deadly and violent compared to other centuries was because Nazi Germany, Soviet Union and China had made atheism official government rule.
So it’s no surprise to read it used to justify the ending of unborn human life in this blog now.
Nothing dehumanizes quite like atheism.
And we have had a century filled with death over the past 100 years, thanks to it.
It’s about as modern as Ghengis Khan.
- Ajjacksson - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 2:28 pm:
Gooner, I wasn’t asking you or anyone else to believe anything that I believe. My point is that nasty comments about God are not necessary here, or for that matter, anywhere. I’ll respect your right to not believe as long as you’ll respect my right to believe.
- VanillaMan - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 2:28 pm:
Ron.
Stop.
Now.
- cdog - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 2:29 pm:
Gooner, I don’t believe I’ve said anything religious.
I rarely say my religious views, anywhere.
Ethics and morality exist independently of religion. (Gosh, I hope that’s still true, but maybe I’m assuming something here.)
I am actually searching for what a balance might be between all Illinoisan’s viewpoints on this.
Ron’s comment, “I’m not sure why I must be forced to take serious the morality of those that think a god came to earth to commit suicide in order to save mankind,” sounds rather intolerant and hateful of anything a person of faith might say.
Fair?
- Ajjacksson - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 2:29 pm:
Actually, I’ll respect your right to not believe independent of what you think of me and my beliefs.
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 2:31 pm:
Stop what? Stating facts?
- Gooner - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 2:34 pm:
The legal arguments are interesting.
Apparently, unless an Act lists a specific source of funding, the Act fails to pass muster.
How about Acts that list a specific source and the overall budget still is in the red? Take education funding. Does that mean that if the state runs a deficit, all education funding is contrary to the IL Constitution?
While creative, the argument does not seem to have much merit.
- Gooner - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 2:39 pm:
Good point, Vanilla Man.
Historically, we have very little record of people being killed in the name of religion.
Good point!
Again though, can we get back to the legal arguments raised?
The State Rep. raised specific legal arguments and they have broad ranging budget implications.
It would be nice to discuss those implications rather than getting sidetracked about the merits of any particular faith.
- ste_with_a_v_en - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 2:40 pm:
I love they just made up numbers. If it’s 15 million for abortions, how much is birth costing us?
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 2:48 pm:
“If it’s 15 million for abortions, how much is birth costing us?”
At least $750,000,000.00. That’s a very nice pension payment.
- Mr Hooper - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 2:48 pm:
No one should accept at face value the “scientific” assertions made in this lawsuit. The Thomas More Society is a fringe group and Breen is a fanatic. He has taken up the cause of the Planned Parenthood “baby parts” video makers who are currently under indictment. Those videos have been shown to have been heavily edited and skewed for an anti-abortion agenda.
The real benefit to the signing of HB40 was not that Medicaid would cover abortion - but rather that we removed a trigger law that would have made abortion illegal in Illinois should Roe v Wade be reversed. The actual number of tax-payer funded abortions will not bankrupt this state. Fortunately, we also have tax-payer funded birth control. But, yes, all women should have the right to make the choice regardless.
- Demoralized - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 2:51 pm:
Ron, I gotta tell you this financial argument you are making is disgusting.
- Tominchicago - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 3:03 pm:
“The reason the 20th century was so deadly and violent compared to other centuries was because Nazi Germany, Soviet Union and China had made atheism official government rule.”
Atheism was not the official government rule of Nazi Germany. Germany was too deeply rooted in its Christian faith. Yes there were some members of the party who wanted to take religion out of its societal centrality, even Hitler recognized that it wasn’t doable. Instead he proposed a national protestant faith, akin to the Anglican Church.
- Swift - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 3:04 pm:
In a attempt to steer the discussion back to what the lawsuit is actually alleging, the non-profits are suing on behalf of their members and the legislators are claiming to be taxpayers, so if the non-profits get excluded, there still is a chance of going forward.
I am surprised to not see Ives as a Plaintiff, the suit is clearly political and Ives is going to have to answer questions as to why she isn’t a plaintiff.
- DuPage Bard - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 3:06 pm:
Why worry about it? In the next two years Trump will appoint another SCOTUS and overturn Roe v. Wade anyway. Much ado about nothing for now.
This will paint suburban R’s as being anti women. If you think it won’t you don’t understand at all why Rauner signed the bill. His signing was for the general election not the primary.
- Gooner - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 3:13 pm:
Demoralized,
Ron’s financial argument is disgusting?
Do you feel that way about the lawsuit itself?
The financial consideration is the basis for the suit.
- Demoralized - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 3:19 pm:
Gooner:
I’m speaking to his argument that he believes he is personally financially better off because of abortions. Yes, that argument is disgusting.
- Demoralized - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 3:20 pm:
For some reason every comment is held. I’ll try this again.
Gooner:
I’m speaking of Ron’s comments about his personal financial well being as it involves abortions in which he argues he’s financially better off with abortions.
- Amalia - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 3:34 pm:
women should be supported in their choices. to control pregnancy with birth control. to create children through infertility treatments. to adopt children. to raise healthy children. and to have an abortion if desired or necessary.
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 3:35 pm:
Financial argument is a side benefit. The main reason is that women should not be forced to give birth against their wishes.
- Gooner - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 3:40 pm:
That’s true, Demoralized, and the lawsuit claims that IL is better off financially without them.
Does that argument bother you, or just Ron’s?
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 3:48 pm:
“My office has not yet been served in this lawsuit. But, perhaps before coming to me, the anti-choice groups and Republican representatives bringing this suit should first have a conversation with the Office of Governor Bruce Rauner, who signed HB40 into law.”
They don’t like the governor because of this. What would they talk about? Frerichs isn’t the brightest.
- Rational - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 3:48 pm:
- Why do men even have a say what happens to a woman’s body? -
Now I feel bad that I stand up for women that are being beat if the husband believes in a religion where women are lesser beings and that action is acceptable. Or, am I still the man that thinks killing and assault are worth fighting against even if I do not have a uterus?
- Chris Widger - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 4:09 pm:
==“My office has not yet been served in this lawsuit. But, perhaps before coming to me, the anti-choice groups and Republican representatives bringing this suit should first have a conversation with the Office of Governor Bruce Rauner, who signed HB40 into law.”==
This is a weird and bad press release.
- VanillaMan - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 4:18 pm:
- Why do men even have a say what happens to a woman’s body? -
Because we’re all human beings discussing human life with the human qualities of empathic intelligence.
Except you.
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 4:22 pm:
When will the pro lifers set up the fetus farms they so dearly want?
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 4:26 pm:
“This is a weird and bad press release.”
Chris, Illinois has really dumb politicians.
- Gooner - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 4:27 pm:
Vanilla Man,
We are not only discussing human life.
We are discussing how humans can control fetuses living inside them.
Again though, you lost your argument in 1973.
This argument is about funding for a perfectly legal medical procedure
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 4:29 pm:
“Why do men even have a say what happens to a woman’s body?”
They should have no say. But many men have control issues. Just pick up the paper and read about Roy Moore or John Conyers. Let alone Donnie Trump.
- cdog - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 4:36 pm:
I think Ron has some magic cookie that gets him through the moderation filters. /s
- A guy - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 4:55 pm:
==This argument is about funding for a perfectly legal medical procedure==
You forgot to add “publicly” funding. But somehow it’s “perfectly” legal.
It’s only medical when it’s performed. There’s few “medical” needs for it.
As for Fetus Farms, let’s just say there are plenty of people willing to adopt these children and raise them outside of the Medicaid system, so the Advanced Fetus Farm, where live children are adopted, loved and cared for is ready and willing.
Why don’t you fund these procedures with your pals in agreement with you, since it doesn’t offend you morally in any way and even (CRINGE) benefits you per your odd argument today?
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 4:57 pm:
Because it only costs $200 and poor women should have the same right that my wife does.
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 4:58 pm:
Why should your desire to force birth people be more important than the pregnant woman?
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 5:01 pm:
I don’t want to pay for a lot of government things, but I have to as you do.
I’d much rather have abortion for poor women be covered by medicaid than pay for a coddled public employee’s pension that can never be changed due to an unfair Constitutional protection.
- Anonymous - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 5:02 pm:
I’ll listen to the anti-abortion crowd when they figure out a way for alleged baby to exist somewhere else for nine months.
- cdog - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 5:08 pm:
All women, regardless of socio-economic class, have the right to not conceive children with men who are not worthy of being fathers.
I am adopted, as I have said before. I’m glad my future value was not denied.
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 5:26 pm:
Do I have the right not pay for a nuclear weapons? Get over it.
- Ron - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 5:27 pm:
Not sure why your wishes are more important than the womans.
- Gooner - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 5:36 pm:
A Guy,
There are few medical needs for it?
Tell that to the woman forced to carry something she doesn’t want.
Any idea what she goes through?
Do you even care?
Too bad you care more about something that may become life than actual life.
- Gooner - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 5:38 pm:
A guy, you wrote:
“As for Fetus Farms, let’s just say there are plenty of people willing to adopt these children and raise them outside of the Medicaid system.”
What about the first nine months? Give some thought to the actual human, for whom you seem to have no regard at all.
- Demoralized - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 6:27 pm:
Gooner
I’m not playing this game you are playing. If you don’t understand why what Ron is saying is wrong then I can’t help you
- Gooner - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 6:30 pm:
Demoralized,
I will say the same to you.
His financial argument is offensive.
Breen’s is not.
That makes sense to you? There is no point in further discussion.
Your religious bias prevents you from stepping back and seeing this as other see it.
- wordslinger - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 6:41 pm:
–A bill never designed to pass that reached the Governor’s desk…
Maybe the cuteness will end.
The argument is valid.–
The bill was passed by the GA and signed by the governor, the standard way of becoming law.
What argument is valid, by the way? The balanced budget one? You can’t really believe that.
The Thomas More Society has plenty-o-lawyers. They were bound to file something, just to show the troops that they’re doing something.
- Just wow - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 6:58 pm:
Ron is all over the map here. Hard to keep up with his positions here. Someone got the double shot of espresso T Starbucks this morning
- Demoralized - Thursday, Nov 30, 17 @ 8:34 pm:
Gooner
I didn’t mention religion. Don’t make stuff up
- Ron - Friday, Dec 1, 17 @ 10:25 am:
Just wow, you must be slow. Coffee won’t help.
- Ron - Friday, Dec 1, 17 @ 10:26 am:
anti abortionists and Roy Moore are happy together oppressing women