|
*** UPDATED x2 *** Let’s hope the National Guard rumors aren’t true
Wednesday, Aug 8, 2018 - Posted by Rich Miller * Unless he wants to activate our relative small number of National Guard military police, this could turn out to be a disaster…
That rumor was everywhere yesterday, but an administration official told me the idea sounded “crazy.” Even so, there is some support within GOP leadership. * I briefly embedded with the 233rd Military Police Company of the Illinois National Guard in Iraq back in 2003. Many of the soldiers were cops back in the real world. They were also incredibly well trained and some of the lessons they taught me have stayed with me ever since. From my story back then…
Activating the National Guard to deal with Chicago violence is an old idea. Some Democrats demanded it back when Rod Blagojevich was governor. Blagojevich was eventually convinced not to do it. The Guard can be useful for things like protecting a certain piece of property, or controlling large crowds or distributing food and other aid. But if we send them out on neighborhood patrols, some bad things could happen. *** UPDATE 1 *** The Rauner administration just reiterated to me that these rumors are not true and the governor is not calling out the National Guard. *** UPDATE 2 *** Mary Ann is sticking by her story…
But Gov. Rauner was asked today whether a poll was commissioned about calling out the National Guard. “Absolutely not,” he said.
|
- California Guy - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:05 am:
On the one hand, I think bringing in the NG to patrol the street would be kinda creepy. On the other hand, you might have less shootings. No other really action on this issue at this point.
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:08 am:
California Guy, you didn’t read a single word I wrote, did you?
- Wait what - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:11 am:
Looking into crystal ball : *bad things*
This concept there’s not enough police presence is misguided. These neighborhoods are run by gangs. The violence, while sometimes domestic, isn’t going anywhere until the underlying issues are confronted.
- GOPgal - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:14 am:
“some bad things could happen.”
As opposed to the carnage going on now.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:14 am:
This brought me back to the “ck” days of the Superstars… seems like a 1,000 years ago.
To the Post,
The idea that the governor calls up the ILNG, be it to take the place of locked out or striking state workers, to this very dangerous and foolish idea militia in the streets, a heightened alert by a move like this would damage the relationship necessary for communities and it’s government in a free society.
An occupational force, even if it’s in a role of MPs, is not the policing role. Even security after natural disasters dictate that the Guard there isn’t occupying a devastated area, the role is to allow citizens, some first responders themselves, to regroup and let civilian law enforcement to take control as soon as possible. An occupying force superseding civilian law enforcement is not how to regain the trust of citizens with government.
We need think better… of ways to be answers… outside military occupation.
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:17 am:
===As opposed to the carnage going on now===
Never assume that your allegedly good intentions can’t make things worse. Things can always get worse.
- lake county democrat - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:17 am:
Don’t put them out on the street - offer them to do traffic work/paper work/whatever to free up more CPD members for the streets. And yes, that might not be the most efficient thing, but at least it speaks to crisis and not shrugging.
- 47th Ward - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:17 am:
What would the National Guard do? Set up road blocks? Go house to house, searching for, what exactly? Enforce teen curfew laws?
Deploying the National Guard is a terrible idea, for all of the reasons Rich mentioned and more. It would basically create a sense of martial law, but only in low income neighborhoods. If you wanted to turn all of Englewood into a giant prison, this is how you’d do it.
Really bad idea.
- Downstate - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:19 am:
This was tried in the favellas of Rio. The guard presence eliminated violence overnight. It remained that way as long as the police force was there. The minute they departed, hell returned.
- Mason born - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:21 am:
California guy,
I’ll bite, what exactly do you think the National Guard will do to reduce shootings?
& what mission parameters are you going to set?
Will they be armed w their standard issue weapons? M16/M4/SAW (all full auto or burst) etc?
What Rules Of Engagement are they to use? Can they fire if they see a gun, if it’s pointed at them, or if they’re fired upon? Can they use Suppresive fire against an assailant?
What is a mission success?
FYI I was Marine Infantry & while I think the MP’s exaggerated a bit it wasn’t that much.
For the love we have police wrongfully killing citizens, you think it’d be better with Infantry armed with Automatic weapons.
- lake county democrat - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:21 am:
While National Guard street patrols may be a bad idea, I wonder how many suburbanites would be clamoring for it if they suddenly found themselves living in these neighborhoods. As Rich points out, some Dems were demanding it of Blago. At some point the answer to “what do you have to lose” becomes “not that much” - once you’re a prisoner in your own home, you’re effectively “occupied.”
- Saluki - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:23 am:
If properly directed from the outset, and given very specific rules of engagement, it COULD have a positive impact.
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:26 am:
===given very specific rules of engagement===
Again, read what the MPs told me about this topic.
- Honeybear - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:27 am:
One of my coworkers is a IL National Guard officer. Fine person and consummate professional. But honestly, there are too many dangers about this. This could go bad so fast.
Just out of curiosity, are the sources of the rumors ususlly credible?
I trust that Rich being a credible journalist would assess this.
I just wonder where this is coming from.
And why
- A Jack - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:33 am:
So you have the typical southern Illinois National Guard member sitting in a humvee surrounded by a group of protesters and tell him not to fire his weapon unless he feels like his life is in danger.
Someone is likely to get killed and then you will have riots like you haven’t seen in Chicago since the sixties.
- Actual Red - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:35 am:
This is the most disgusting, fascistic “solution” to violence in Chicago available. It shows an utter lack of concern for the rights and well being of poor people and people of color. Subjecting black and Latino neighborhoods to military occupation would send a clear message that people in those neighborhoods are unwanted and not protected by the same rules as white people in other parts of the city and state. Further, it would not stem the violence in the long term.
If you think the solution to systemic poverty. discrimination, and violence is to create a mini-Gaza strip on the South Side, I think we are living in different moral universes.
If you think I’m being hyperbolic, fine, but I truly believe this would be an unmitigated disaster and a gross violation of the basic principals this country is supposed to aspire to.
- Precinct Captain - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:35 am:
Let’s test run this in Winnetka and Western Springs.
- AnonymousOne - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:35 am:
The solution to this problem is so complex that using the National Guard to get this under control is tempting. However, when would this end? Seems like the shootings could slow down some, but when the Guard leaves, it starts up again. Too “surface” of a fix. But then again, some action has to be taken. Every single life saved is progress.
- A Jack - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:36 am:
What were the rules of engagement at Kent State? The National Guard does not have a good history for this sort of thing.
- mark - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:38 am:
I hope this doesn’t happen. I’m in impacted communities quite a bit and adding another level of armed militarized authority isn’t the answer when there is already a us vs. them mentality(on both law enforcement & community sides). We that live in those communities also understand that it is a tale of 2 cities. Until that’s honestly addressed the violence continues.
- d.p.gumby - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:39 am:
Can’t fathom how NG presence would benefit anyone in anyway.
- Real - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:40 am:
As a active duty Army veteran I think it’s a bad idea because sending them in is kinda like sending civilians in. Most active duty Army soldiers aren’t even trained properly to deal with patrolling Chicago much less National Guard. Part of the problem already is that members of the neighborhood should be police. Having people that grew up else where and are of different races is a big part of the policing problem already.
- wordslinger - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:46 am:
You don’t ask combat soldiers to be cops. It’s not the same mission, at all.
Google the experience of the National Guard troops during the 1967 riots in Newark and Detroit.
- dbk - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:49 am:
I can’t really fathom the immediate, short-term approach - maybe diverting CPD personnel from wealthy, low-crime districts to the four most affected districts during the remainder of summer.
And earmarking x-sum of $$ ($1 million, say) immediately to bolster the CAPS program substantially - this seems to result in cooperative, long-term relationships of trust between the PD and communities.
Sending in the NG seems like sending in an occupation force to me, and one not trained in dealing with residential neighborhood violence / gangs, which require iiuc particular strategies.
- BlueDogDem - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:51 am:
I trust our military to step up to the task if called upon. What happened to that drone Bill floating around awhile back? Is that an option for late night surveillance in the troubled areas? I would think the vast majority of residences would not mind this.
- 47th Ward - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:55 am:
===Is that an option for late night surveillance in the troubled areas? I would think the vast majority of residences would not mind this.===
Maybe we could test it in your neighborhood first. You know, proof of concept, to see if any of your neighbors mind a drone peeking into their windows at night.
- Cheryl44 - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:55 am:
Maybe our police need the same training the MPs got while we see what can be done about the underlying issues.
- BlueDogDem - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 11:57 am:
47th. Since you asked. Sure wouldn’t bother me if it keeps my family safer.
- Todd - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 12:03 pm:
This has all kinds of problems with it.
Rich has some good insights. Having been an MP and done a lot of grunt work, the two worlds are different. Infantry are on the front lines taking and holding ground. They don’t get a lot of time to make decisions, as that’s how you get dead. They are also walking point, looking for trip wires, taking sniper fire, booby traps the list goes on.
MPs have some law enforcement responsibilities, POW, entertainment, convoy and route security.
But the picture is going to look like Belfast in the ’80s. And do you want to see humvees with 240G Machineguns on top at intersections? Do you want to see 113 APCs or Bradleys with guys standing in the hatch with a machinegun covering a check point? Do you want jersey barriers redirecting traffic and creating check points for locals?
And when a group of bangers wants to test out the resolve of those guardsmen and their rules of engagement, like we’ve seen done at our embassies, what is going to happen when the white Corporal from Cairo lights up a car that didn’t halt and tried to run the check point and he lights them up with his 240G and you have 2 or 3 dead black teens/young people?
having done this kinda thing I don’t see it ending well unless you want to turn parts of Chicago into an occupied territory.
- Rabid - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 12:08 pm:
Take the problem to the united nations, maybe they could help with decisions
- Nick Name - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 12:16 pm:
=== But if we send them out on neighborhood patrols, some bad things could happen.===
Not could. Will.
Also, what about posse comitatus?
- @misterjayem - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 12:26 pm:
“Let them mills themselves off.”
It’s spelled with a k, Ivan.
And “them” is a plural pronoun and, as such, calls for a plural verb, i.e. no s.
English is a tough language, isn’t it.
– MrJM
- SaulGoodman - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 12:29 pm:
**What happened to that drone Bill floating around awhile back? Is that an option for late night surveillance in the troubled areas?**
That’s not what that (terrible) drone bill did.
The drone bill would have allowed for surveillance of “large” events - not random neighborhoods late at night.
- TKMH - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 12:29 pm:
==I would think the vast majority of residences would not mind this.==
I’d think a lot of communities affected by Burge-era policing tactics may not be comfortable with expanded police surveillance powers.
- IrishPirate - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 12:45 pm:
I used to be part of the big mean ugly Green Army machine and this is a bad bad idea.
I can give you one reason it’s unlikely to happen:
You gotta pay the guardsmen.
People talk about this without mentioning the cost to the state taxpayers.
The short term answer to crime in Chicago is more proactive policing and real sentences with real consequences. Today I saw a story about some nasty gunfire the other day in my Uptown Chicago neighborhood. Cops grabbed guy who tried to run away and found him with handgun………..$500 bail. That’ll show him!
Long term answers to crime involve jobs, schools, after school programs, anti violence programs, better mental health resources, community involvement, job training and dozens of other things.
Military resources should generally only be deployed for natural disasters with some exceptions for background support for huge events.
- Cook County Commoner - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 12:46 pm:
Maybe more “boots on the ground” is part of the answer. But not in military uniform. More regular cops is a non-starter because of cost. Career MPs in CPD garb “on loan” maybe. But this would be a non-starter with FOP for fear of watering down unionized, pensioned membership. Then there’s the culture class. Sadly, the solution will be what it always has been: Wait for winter to quiet things down and pretend the predictive algorithm is working.
- BlueDogDem - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 12:49 pm:
Saul & TK. There doesn’t appear to be any good ideas out there. Even if the politicians try there usual bag of tricks(and we all know they will give it lip service at best), your generations away from changing culture. Can’t we need up security in the short term. 600 extra cops or drones. What would you want?
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 12:51 pm:
===unless you want to turn parts of Chicago into an occupied territory===
Which I think for some people, certainly not all, is why they like the idea.
- SOIL M - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 12:52 pm:
I actually remember National Guard Patrols around town when I was a kid. The large deployment of State Troopers, 76 if I remember correctly, had a much larger effect on the problems than the NG patrols. They would again. Has the City considered assistance from ILEAS?
- A guy - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 12:58 pm:
===unless you want to turn parts of Chicago into an occupied territory===
In a few areas, it already is. Just different occupiers. This task is completely ill-suited for the National Guard.
- Just Observing - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 1:06 pm:
=== Take the problem to the united nations, maybe they could help with decisions ===
The UN would just pass a resolution blaming Israel for the violence in Chicago.
- JPA - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 1:08 pm:
National guard is a silly idea. Illinois State Police is not a bad idea. You could increase ISP presence in Chicago or have them cover traffic details to allow CPD to do more of the heavy lifting.
- Freezeup - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 1:27 pm:
The residents of the high crime areas deserve safety and security but the NG is not the solution.
The only way these neighborhoods will recover and the only way the social programs and job programs can work is by the neighborhood being secured. The only way to secure the neighborhoods, to make them safe for the residents is to arrest and remove bad actors. That is the job of the police.
Step One is put police officers working their regular shifts in the problem areas. Lots of them. And not overstressed officers whose patience is worn to a nub from working overtime. These officers job will be to arrest and remove bad actors from the area, build relationships with the law abiding citizens on a personal level and gain the trust of citizens. Create trust in the public that they will be treated fairly and that bad acts will be punished. Remove the motivation for victims and victims families to engage in vigilante revenge acts against the shooters that stay out on the street with seemingly no consequence. (Judges, this is where you come in!) Make it safe again. If you do this, then flood the area with social and job programs after the area is safe, the programs will work.
Why would anybody think this is the job of the NG? It is clearly the bailey wick of the police! It has to be step one with solid plans to fund and execute step two, which is programs.
We keep pretending there are solutions besides hiring more cops. There are not. Hire cops. Train them well. Supervise them. Give them the tools (an example: simple, non-time consuming report writing methods) and deploy them to the geography that is out of control. It will not change until we do this.
- Freezeup - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 1:33 pm:
====National guard is a silly idea. Illinois State Police is not a bad idea. You could increase ISP presence in Chicago or have them cover traffic details to allow CPD to do more of the heavy lifting.=====
It’s a great idea. As long as you double the size of the state police and increase the size of CPD by a third.
ISP has dabbled in sending small groups of officers to the city for temporary duty but the numbers are too small to make a difference and you are removing officers from parts of the state that also need police protection. There are parts of Illinois that rely heavily on ISP for policing.
- Stuntman Bob's Brother - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 2:02 pm:
What did the Feds do in the 1930’s when criminal gangs owned Chicago at that time? Could a modern Elliot Ness make a difference toward busting up the gangs’ hold on neighborhoods? Also, unless we’re willing to get serious on punishing illegal gun possession, the rest is simply lip service.
http://oaklawnleaf.com/2018/08/06/10693/
- Robert Lincoln - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 2:21 pm:
Although the lines of the militarizing of our police(giving them tank, etc.) continue to get pushed, the job of the military and the police are very different. Anyone who suggests it should be asked what do you expect the military to do? Shoot people? Stand on corners with military rifles and try to look intimidating? What are your military rules for engagement? We do not give military cuffs, tazers, etc and we don’t train them in using different levels of force.
If you need more police, hire them. As the graphs show, this problem will not be solved by this weekend.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 2:22 pm:
“Todd @ 12:03 pm- “Having been an MP and done a lot of grunt work, the two worlds are different.” How credible are Todd Vandermyde’s opinions of military operations, considering how he has misrepresented his military record as being Special Forces (Army Green Beret) qualified?
On February 18, 2016, Todd’s sycophant John Boch published an article on his GSL website titled, “In Todd We Trust: The last of the modern Renaissance Men- Todd Vandermyde.” Read it if you want a strong barf and insight into the adolescent mentality of the gun hicks. In Boch’s article, he claimed Vandermyde was a Green Beret, which he is not. After veterans within the gun rights community spotted Boch’s lies, publisher Jeff Hinton from the Quiet Professional (real Green Berets, current and retired) board reached out to Boch, who promptly censored his own article, a John Boch specialty.
Great work as always from two of the backstabbers who cut the deal with anti-gun police unions to put Duty to Inform in Rep. Brandon Phelps’ concealed carry bill. Since Vandermyde was fired by NRA, at least he can’t do any more damage.
- Huh? - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 2:23 pm:
Having cross the NG line during the 1968 democratic convention, this is a bad idea.
- 19th ward guy - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 2:40 pm:
Because everything else has worked so well? National Guard is the only answer. Stop the cycle of violence first. But that would require political courage which neither the Guv or the mayor have shown in this issue. Kids are dying and they are taking the same jibberish we’ve all heard for decades. Such a failure of leadershop.
- JS Mill - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 2:57 pm:
This is a prime example of the reason why we need our city, county, and state leaders working together to find a solution.
Here is an idea, it won’t be easy or fast:
State provides additional financial assistance to hire more CPD and Cook County police. These officers would be specifically trained in community policing, something that has proven to be successful nationwide. It requires trained officers to be imbedded in the community and build relationships which is the key to turning things around.
Hold Chicago and CC Sheriff accountable (could include state police too) to supplement not supplant current spending, specific numbers etc.
If the governor was thinking of spending state money then this would be a proven solution using those dollars.
The NG is not he answer here, they have a different mission.
- JoanP - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 3:18 pm:
=But Gov. Rauner was asked today whether a poll was commissioned about calling out the National Guard. “Absolutely not,” he said. =
Did he laugh before he said that? Because as between Rauner and Ahern, I’m more inclined to believe Ahern.
- Last Bull Moose - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 3:33 pm:
If more police are part of the answer, then increase the lawyers to try and to defend those arrested. Add space to th hold those convicted. Increase parole officers.
You can’t just ramp up the front end of the system.
Does our judicial system work when intimidation by gangs is so pervasive? The jury that convicted Al Capone could not be seated today.
- Art Student - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 3:37 pm:
As someone who lives in one of the communities (Austin) some of you seem so earger to turn into occupied territories, it would be nice if the imput of the residents were taken into account and give appropriate weight over the people who haven’t stepped foot into these neighborhoods. I lived in Austin since 1999 and I can tell you that over time it actually has gotten quieter, in fits and starts. But I can also tell you that my experiences with the CPD have been very mixed. As a child, because of my father’s work I have good interactions with the cops that would visit on patrol. It wasn’t until I left for college and came back that I started to have negative interactions one of which was when my boyfriend was dropping me off at home and a cruiser came alongside us and asked why he was there and why I was in the car with him. This has happened a few times, always near my home and the implementation has always been since he is white and I’m black in a black neighborhood I must be a prostitute. Or when we were walking to the train and a crusier pulled up in front of a two flat with a guy sitting on the porch and the offer hops out with his taser out and aimed at the guy. I hesitate to call the police because I don’t know if doing so will make a situation better or worse. It would definitely help if they actually caught the people doing the shootings in the first first place because a lot of subsequent shootings are retaliatory; because know one believes that the police will do anything to catch who did it. And you all want to bring the National Guard into this murky complicated situation. I’m already twitchy enough walking home at night from work when I see the patrol car roll past, the NG is just going to turn this into a bloody cluster***”.
- Art Student - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 3:48 pm:
Implication* sorry for the giant paragraph, typing on my phone is word.
- DuPage Bard - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 3:55 pm:
Yes they should do it. Not a military takeover but have Guard members in Humvee’s being directed by the local police jurisdiction to be an extra group patrolling street.
Wouldn’t be that tough. I imagine the streets would learn the sound of those vehicles coming and they w Ould clear before they even turned a corner.
- JS Mill - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 3:56 pm:
=Does our judicial system work when intimidation by gangs is so pervasive? The jury that convicted Al Capone could not be seated today.=
You are making an incorrect assumption. You assume (based on your comments) that more police means more arrests and convictions.
The point of community policing is not to increase arrests but to build relationships and change behaviors, reduce lawless behavior. Not put folks in the slammer.
- A guy - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 3:59 pm:
==Guard members in Humvee’s being directed by the local police jurisdiction==
The Guard follows a Chain of Command. They’re not mercenaries loaned out to be commanded by local police departments.
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 4:14 pm:
===They’re not mercenaries loaned out===
Keyboard commandos have some seriously odd fantasies.
- Lester Holt’s Mustache - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 4:18 pm:
==Yes they should do it. Not a military takeover but have Guard members in Humvee’s being directed by the local police jurisdiction to be an extra group patrolling street.==
You volunteering to pay the multi-million dollar legal settlements whenever a guardsman shoots a Chicago teen holding a cellphone? Because that isn’t going to fly with Illinoisans south of I-80, these folks already mistakenly think all our tax money goes to help Chicago.
- Precinct Captain - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 4:22 pm:
DuPage Bard, you should volunteer to test run the National Guard in your neighborhood.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 5:43 pm:
I wonder what the reaction of people in Napervile would be…if they awoke to a Military force in their city?
#What color is the problem?
- Stuntman Bob's Brother - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 6:57 pm:
I wonder what the reaction of people in Napervile would be if they awoke to a Military force in their city?
I have a feeling that deploying the NG in Naperville (or Shelbyville, for that matter) would result in an entirely different response by residents than deploying them in Austin or Roseland. If what happened in Chicago last weekend happened in Naperville, I think it would be Naperville residents themselves calling for deployment of the Guard to remove those responsible if the police were not up to the task. There is a culture in the violence-plagued neighborhoods that has to be changed before the violence will stop (”F the police” is at its core). Bottom line, Rich is correct, deploying the NG will only make things worse, and that’s partially what is wrong with those neighborhoods to begin with. Richard J. must spin in his grave every time Rahm shows up at a podium.
- cc - Wednesday, Aug 8, 18 @ 8:12 pm:
Many years ago, I remember going to large building supply companies and small groups of men would stand on nearby public space. Builders looking for day laborers would stand, talk to them and hire some or all of them.
In this day and age, would several community leaders, purchase a neighborhood vacant lot and offer young men for basic job. But they could learn more from just being around other workers with higher skills.
Guess this idea is too naive as it is; but wish it would trigger some different sort of thinking.
- Illinois - Thursday, Aug 9, 18 @ 2:39 am:
Chicago has an “Armed Blue Force” of 12,000 police.
They can’t subdue a bunch of gang-bangers?