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Dueling arguments

Friday, Mar 22, 2019

* Catholic Conference of Illinois’ statement on a Senate committee vote to repeal the state’s parental notification of abortion law

Since this law went into effect, the incidence of abortions among minors has dropped 57 percent in Illinois.

Why would anybody vote for legislation that effectively removes parents and guardians of minors from a major decision that is known to have significant physical and mental after effects?

Current law makes it illegal for minors in Illinois to use an indoor tanning bed; buy cigarettes, alcohol or lottery tickets; or vote in an election. Are we to believe abortion is somehow less consequential than getting a tan?

* Zorn on Illinois’ parental notification law

Supporters of the law often point out that parental consent is required for most major medical procedures performed on minors, from appendectomies to nose jobs. And that abortion is a more profound procedure than routine surgeries.

But childbirth is also profound, and it’s about 14 times riskier than abortion. Yet minors aren’t required to inform their parents when receiving obstetric care.

Sexual activity is also profound. Yet, as I’ve noted, minors aren’t required to inform their parents when obtaining birth control.

Supporters also point out that when girls with unwanted pregnancies come from dysfunctional or abusive families, the law allows them to petition a judge to waive the notification requirement. […]

What’s particularly telling is that of the 400 pregnant girls who have petitioned for the waiver in Illinois since 2013, only one has been denied, according to the ACLU, which cited attorney-client confidentiality in declining to disclose details of that case.

Discuss, but be respectful of others or you’ll be banned for life or worse. I’m not gonna tolerate any over the top nonsense today like we had earlier this week.

- Posted by Rich Miller        

57 Comments
  1. - Concerned Parent - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 9:23 am:

    What I find conflicting is that I have to sign a release form for the school nurse to provide my child Tylenol but this bill would allow my child to have a medical procedure without my knowledge.


  2. - Last Bull Moose - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 9:30 am:

    Those parents who have a good relationship with their daughters don’t need them a parental notification law. They will know.

    If you think you need a parental notification law, work harder to build the relationship with your daughters. It may not be easy. But it pays.


  3. - TNR - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 9:33 am:

    == What’s particularly telling is that of the 400 pregnant girls who have petitioned for the waiver in Illinois since 2013, only one has been denied ==

    Can’t that just as easily be used as an argument for the other side — indicating the current law is not an impediment to an abortion? It might be more useful to survey teen moms and ask how many would have had an abortion if they didn’t have to notify their parents.


  4. - wordslinger - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 9:34 am:

    –Since this law went into effect, the incidence of abortions among minors has dropped 57 percent in Illinois.–

    If that’s implying causality, please show your work.

    Across the country, both teen pregnancies and abortions have been declining for years and are at record lows.

    https://www.womenshealth.gov/30-achievements/09

    http://time.com/5461616/abortions-lowest-rate-cdc/


  5. - Silas Murdock - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 9:35 am:

    Not to sound overly flippant, but the Catholics’ moral authority is sounding hollow these days.
    And yes, skin cancer is more consequential than not having a baby. Lots of teens don’t have babies everyday - most of them, last I heard.


  6. - Here we go again - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 9:40 am:

    Abortion rates have significantly gone down for several reasons, the parental notification law is not one of those prim reasons. Those reasons include more access to contraception, a better comprehensive sexual and health education, information easily available online, and of course the exodus of low income families.

    I completely understand how difficult and emotional this issue is. And I know we try to personalize issues in order to best understand them and be able to relate to them. But this isn’t just about our own daughters or the young women in our immediate lives, who probably have a decent understanding of things and have the support of their families.

    This is for the young girls who live in families and communities not as supportive, at the brink of violence, etc. For families already living under stress the new layer of an unwanted pregnancy by a teenager/minor, can lead to worse conditions for everyone.

    I’m coming at this from someone who was actively involved in the Catholic Church and on the anti-abortion camp. I’ve come to learn just how much more complicated this issue is, and quite frankly, an issue I shouldn’t have a say in someone else’s decision/life/family.


  7. - Anon - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 9:44 am:

    Parents do not own their children.

    If someone is old enough to become pregnant they’re old enough to decide for themselves whether or not they want to continue to pregnancy, especially when considering the terrible outcomes that follow teen mother statistics.

    An additional factor (which folks against this law seem happy to ignore) is that parents do not always have the best interest for their children in mind and at no point should someone be allowed or able to force someone to continue an unwanted pregnancy.

    You do not own your children. They are not your property. You do not own their bodies and should not be able to force them to make reproductive choices.


  8. - DuPage Saint - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 9:45 am:

    How many pregnant you teens have any idea how to petition a Juvenile Court judge to allow for an abortion? Ideally parental notification would be good but we do not live in an ideal world


  9. - Uncle Ernie - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 9:50 am:

    If a child is 12-17 the parents should know if the child is considering an abortion. =Concerned Parent= is correct, children cannot get a Tylenol, but they can have an abortion without parental consent, that is just not sensible. I can see cases of parental abuse, incest, no active parent, where the child would need counselling, and a judges permission to have an abortion, without parental consent.


  10. - Perrid - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 9:50 am:

    So Zorn wants more laws demanding parents be notified of things? /snark

    Really though, I wouldn’t be opposed to that idea. It’s hard for me to understand how the state facilitating children keeping secrets from their parents is a good thing.

    And guys, I get beating up the Catholics is easy and fun, but you do know that’s an ad hominem fallacy, right? You’re ignoring the argument and saying that since the Catholics are making it, it must be wrong.


  11. - My view - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 9:55 am:

    This is the kind of issue where parents often focus on how they would react or what they would want to know if it was their daughter. But the reality is the typical parent who has a relationship with their child probably doesn’t have to worry about their daughter having an abortion without talking to them. But wha about the teen who doesn’t have a relationship with a parent, or God forbid was raped or abused by a parent or relative? The repeal of this law is for that child. So that child doesn’t have to go to a parent or guardian who may be involved or who may be abusive.


  12. - NoGifts - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 10:03 am:

    On the tylenol parallel, children of any age can purchase tylenol or other OTC medications from the store and use them. So this argument doesn’t really hold up.


  13. - Captain Obvious - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 10:14 am:

    Since waivers are granted when justified it appears that the current paradigm is working well. Why change it? Pure partisan politics of course.


  14. - Demoralized - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 10:14 am:

    I’m torn by this one because as a parent I would certainly want to know if my child was having a medical procedure. But, I understand the reasons for allowing for abortions without parental consent. Not everyone comes from a loving family and some families would banish girls who had gotten pregnant at a young age.


  15. - RNUG - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 10:15 am:

    I’m just going to repeat what I said a week or two ago. If the parents have a financial responsibility to support and pay for the health care of the child, then the parents need to be notified prior to any procedure that may impact that financial liability. Until the State takes over that support 100%, both financially and emotionally including any future complications and impacts, the parents need to be included in the decision process.


  16. - Not a Billionaire - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 10:20 am:

    We should add vaccinations too


  17. - Bryan - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 10:20 am:

    Actually, Captain Obvious, it’s not necessarily the case that the current paradigm is working well. It is working. However, we have no idea how many girls are unable to obtain a judicial waiver because they either don’t know how to access the judicial system or they can’t access the judicial system without their parents knowing about it. If a girl has to appear in front of a judge to seek a waiver, how does she get to the courthouse? When does she go? If she goes during school, then her parents definitely know that something is up because her absence is reported. The fact that some people are able to navigate the judicial bypass system in no way means that it is working well. Quite simply, we don’t have the data to determine whether it is working or not.


  18. - Responsa - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 10:21 am:

    I would have a concern that very young pregnant girls might be coerced or forced into a non-parental notification abortion by the sexual partner who got them pregnant. The sexual “partner” could even be a relative or close friend of the parent(s) that the girl was a victim of. That this abortion could occur without any support or guidance by her parent or parents who may not even know she is sexually active or that she has been molested is a problem. I support an abortion in this circumstance as would most people–including a parent– I think, but I believe that parents need to be involved for several reasons. This is only one of the factors which should go into crafting this law, but not an aspect that should be ignored.


  19. - A guy - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 10:23 am:

    ==But childbirth is also profound, and it’s about 14 times riskier than abortion. Yet minors aren’t required to inform their parents when receiving obstetric care.==

    The pregnancy has already occurred and the notification becomes more and more obvious with each passing day. (I’m sure there are cases where a person gets to delivery day without people knowing or noticing- but not very often)

    I have not been aware that minors don’t need parental consent for obstetric care, but I’m not certain this comparison is relevant.


  20. - burden - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 10:27 am:

    RNUG, your position doesn’t make legal or moral sense to me because a parent of a pregnant minor will only incur a serious financial cost if the grandchild is born.

    From a legal/financial perspective, a pregnant minor’s decision to have an abortion relieves her parents of a financial burden, so there’s no reason to give the parents a veto over a minor’s decision to go through with the abortion. From a coldblooded legal perspective, perhaps the parents should be given a veto over a pregnant minor’s decision to carry the pregnancy to term since that decision could impose a serious financial burden on the parents.

    But from a moral perspective, I think all would agree that giving a parent the right to force a pregnant minor to have an abortion she does not want is monstrous. And indeed there’s no law that requires a pregnant minor to inform her parents that she is pregnant and intends to carry the pregnancy to term.


  21. - Rich Miller - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 10:29 am:

    ===but I believe that parents need to be involved for several reasons===

    So do I. But this isn’t about ideal situations.


  22. - A State Employee Guy - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 10:31 am:

    RNUG, I have to strongly disagree with you. The parents’ financial responsibility will ultimately end. The minor child, however, will bear the responsibility for the decision long after that. Including parents in the decision process—which is essentially the same as giving them a say in the matter—just because they’re currently spending money on the kid now, ignores that reality.


  23. - Purple Dog - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 10:33 am:

    ==How many pregnant you teens have any idea how to petition a Juvenile Court judge to allow for an abortion?==
    Hundreds do

    ==If someone is old enough to become pregnant they’re old enough to decide for themselves whether or not they want to continue to pregnancy==
    But they aren’t mature enough to go tanning, get a piercing?

    Anon, are you a parent? I force my kids to do a lot of things. It’s called parenting.

    ==So that child doesn’t have to go to a parent or guardian who may be involved or who may be abusive.==
    That is why the waiver is in current law

    ==Catholic Church==
    Yes, it’s easy to bash them. But the failings of the Church do not change the reality that the murder of a defenseless baby is wrong. Science is clear on this. Unique human DNA, i.e., human life, is formed at conception. I think we all have failed at some point in our lives. Does that mean we have to be quiet on other issues because of our past failings?


  24. - A guy - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 10:42 am:

    I keep reading that “not all families are loving families”, etc.
    In our most candid moments, I think many or even most people would say that their own families had some dysfunction or idiosyncrasies to them. Just reading CF daily, you see that these are things we comfort, tease, chuckle and ruminate about; without rushing to the judgement there is a lack of love or caring.

    Most families are loving. Most parents are very devoted to their children regardless of the circumstances they may find themselves in. Of course there are exceptions and very bad people. We need to reach out to child victims and make sure someone is in their corner (kids may resent it at times- but they do need someone stable around them) Aunts, Grandparents, Teachers, Neighbors, Friend’s parents, a lot of people can fill this role.

    If a minor goes to a PP Clinic, you can bet that they’ll get the legal advice they need to go before a judge. While you can’t get many of the tests people believe you can get at PP Clinics, you can absolutely get the legal advice and aid you need to get a waiver. They have a financial interest in seeing that they do. They may likely even be sincere in that they feel they’re helping the minor. Is that a person who’s really looking out 100% for the minor’s interests? They likely just met. The Abortion Physician is the other (between her and her doctor) is the other person looking out for the best interests?

    Parental Notice is not some Draconian provision. It’s reminding a scared and confused minor what they should do in all but the most dire of circumstances. And in those cases, there’s a remedy that can be and has been used.


  25. - prop - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 10:42 am:

    I don’t mean this as snark, but why doesn’t the law mandate the young man who caused the pregnancy to notify his parents? If those of child bearing years under 18 can’t be trusted to make decisions about their future, shouldn’t there be some responsibility placed on the boy in this situation as well? If she decides to keep the child he will likely have responsibilities as well, at least financial ones. I realize he does not legally have a voice in whether she chooses to have an abortion, but those arguing this is about parental responsibility seem to have a very gender-specific view.

    If a young girl wants to get an abortion and can’t tell her parents, she is forced to go before a judge. The young man is not.


  26. - two to tango - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 10:43 am:

    This isn’t snark. Why doesn’t the law mandate the young man who caused the pregnancy to notify his parents? If those of child bearing years under 18 can’t be trusted to make decisions about their future, shouldn’t there be some responsibility placed on the boy in this situation as well? If she decides to keep the child he will likely have responsibilities as well, at least financial ones. I realize he does not legally have a voice in whether she chooses to have an abortion, but those arguing this is about parental responsibility seem to have a very gender-specific view.

    If a young girl wants to get an abortion and can’t tell her parents, she is forced to go before a judge. The young man is not.


  27. - Anonymous - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 10:43 am:

    As we’ve heard frequently of late, emerging adults have diminished capacity as their brains develop until they reach 25. They can’t be trusted to decide not to smoke, and they aren’t fully responsible for their actions resulting in criminal activity. And yet they are capable of making THIS life altering decision. However we’ll intentioned, the dichotomy seems hypocritical to me. They either can or cannot make important decisions affecting their lives.


  28. - Jocko - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 10:44 am:

    Let’s not forget there is a double-standard with regard to young men and women engaging in sex…favoring the former.

    Like others have said, comprehensive sex education is key…in addition to disabusing people of the notion that girls are nonchalant when coming to the decision to terminate a pregnancy.


  29. - fedup - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 10:48 am:

    I’d argue that if there is not safe space in that child’s life to talk about pregnancy with her parents, there probably was not much space to talk to the kid about safe sex either. Many of us are just repeating the mistake of our own parents and are pretty emotionally illiterate. And lots of us have tons of crazy ideas of how to deal with this situation, and many of those responses are flat out wrong.

    I trust my kid. Its her life. She can choose how to deal with it. If she includes me, I’ve done something right. If not then that says more about me than her.


  30. - @misterjayem - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 11:06 am:

    “How many pregnant you teens have any idea how to petition a Juvenile Court judge to allow for an abortion?”

    For that matter, how many of the adults commenting on this website have any idea how to petition a Juvenile Court judge to allow for an abortion?

    – MrJM


  31. - BothSidesofHisMouth - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 11:06 am:

    I knew a young woman who committed suicide rather than disappoint her parents by telling them she was pregnant. I also know a young woman who took a dangerous concoction of pills in hopes of ending her own pregnancy for similar reasons. She lived and now has a child but she (the mother) now has reduced cognitive abilities.
    It is also entirely ridiculous to pretend that the only hurdle for a young woman to overcome in these situations is that of telling her family and then trying to finish school.
    For young women, pregnancy means wearing the fact that you had sex on your sleeve. Pregnant girls are viewed as immoral, sinful, stupid, promiscuous, easy, etc. (young men are high-fived for their conquests). Pregnancy means frequent (sometimes weekly or more) doctor appointments for which the young woman has to miss school or work (which, if hourly - she won’t get paid for, if in school she will miss instruction). Pregnancy can mean bedrest or hospitalization due to complications. Childbirth can be life threatening for both child and mother (and the US is strangely less safe than many other countries in this respect). Most daycares won’t take babies until they are at least 6-8 weeks old even though few young women are offered maternity leaves that long. Breastfeeding is unanimously best but employers in hourly situations are not going to pay women to pump for 20 minutes every 2-3 hours during their shifts. One can of formula costs two hours worth of earnings. Daycares won’t allow babies or children to attend when sick, but hourly working moms or students don’t get paid or get course credit for staying home with a sick kid. And sometimes moms actually get sick themselves too - often caught from baby who brought home new germs from daycare/school. Employers (not just those in hourly industries, but actually even moreso in salaried positions) routinely view working moms through these lenses - that they will need more time off for doctors appointments and to care for sick kids… because YES, somebody has to do these things and more often it falls on the moms. So women are not offered higher paying positions that they might otherwise have been considered for because they probably won’t be willing to stay late, come in early, travel…. they will be bound by the daycare drop off and pick up times. And many, many young women do not have family close enough to help or willing to help. So while none of these may seem to come even close to being valid reasons to consider abortion - I wish people would stop acting like young women are making these decisions because they consider pregnancy or parenthood “inconvenient.” That is such a minimizing way to view young women’s lives. Young women in these situations, and existing mothers in these situations, are facing much more than inconvenience. Having a child young or having more children than one can handle, can impact a mothers ability to provide for her future or existing children for the rest of her/their life/lives. While often teen fathers simply move along as if nothing has happened… they never have to wear the pregnancy on their sleeves… nobody scoffs at them that maybe they should have kept their legs closed. They never have to miss work to attend weekly doctor appointments or be hospitalized for days or weeks or pump their breasts for 20 minutes every 2-3 hours for a year while trying to hold down a job, racing out at the stroke of 5:00 to beat the daycare’s late pick-up penalties which if incurred will mean dipping into the grocery envelope in her purse. I am so tired of people characterizing these young women’s decisions as being based on “inconvenience.” Legal and rare remains the best goal.
    And if my daughter is so afraid of telling me she’s sexually active that she’d rather go get BC pills at Planned Parenthood.. .well shame on me for making her feel that scared, but thank goodness she has somewhere she can get birth control so that hopefully she won’t be faced with an unintended teen pregnancy. Because she has dreams of being a professional and a mother in her own right, but more often than not those dual goals are only realistically possible when achieved in the “traditional” order. Some manage to be the exceptions to the rule, but many others are not so lucky.


  32. - Honeybear - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 11:11 am:

    Well stated A Guy
    excellent job.
    My experience however is not framed by “loving” or not in terms of family.
    I affirm that most families are “loving”
    but the quality and nature of what that is is very very different especially when we factor in socio-economic, racial, and other factors.
    For me it comes down to
    Which side do I want to bias in favor of
    for me, it’s the individual young woman.
    I feel the control must most often reside with her.
    All things being even
    I’m going to come down on her side.
    But you’re right.
    The current law is not draconian.
    Yet…..
    I’m going to side with a young womans decision to tell her parents or not.
    I don’t feel she should have too.


  33. - Captain Obvious - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 11:12 am:

    Bryan - wouldn’t a responsible abortion provider be helping the child get a waiver?


  34. - @misterjayem - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 11:24 am:

    “If a minor goes to a PP Clinic, you can bet that they’ll get the legal advice they need to go before a judge. While you can’t get many of the tests people believe you can get at PP Clinics, you can absolutely get the legal advice and aid you need to get a waiver.”

    Please tell us more about the legal advice that you imagine is provided at Planned Parenthood clinics…

    – MrJM


  35. - JS Mill - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 11:26 am:

    =What I find conflicting is that I have to sign a release form for the school nurse to provide my child Tylenol but this bill would allow my child to have a medical procedure without my knowledge.=

    Schools require that for liability issues not legal ones. School code does not require it.


  36. - A guy - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 11:27 am:

    ==I’m going to side with a young womans decision to tell her parents or not.==

    Always thoughtful HoneyB.

    In those cases where she would be in harm’s way, I’m 100% with you.
    I hate to say “forced”, but in the course of steering children into adulthood, we encouraged strongly healthy food, healthy work habits, healthy approaches to reasoning, etc. We were the adults with greater experience. That said, we weren’t always right. But we were always most concerned with the best interests of the child. I do recall consulting siblings of ours and grandparents to get advice on our approach. It was helpful. Peers sometimes too.

    In teen years, any level of embarrassment can devastate kids up to and including suicidal thoughts…it’s a fragile time to be sure. Their first impulses are often the worst case. That can be true for adults too. We should treat the “exception” with the waiver. As for the “rule?”, it should remain. Anything less is taking responsibility and rights away from the parent who continues to be responsible for them while they’re minors. If the state is going to hold them accountable, they shouldn’t be in the position to undermine parental authority and responsibility.

    To those suggesting the male be identified?
    Unless there’s some very good reason the minor female needs to not do so…You betcha he should be identified. At minimum, he’s half of the equation and should be accountable.


  37. - Adm Stockd'l - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 11:30 am:

    seems like the premise for no notice is based upon the woman not wanting to engage unsupportive parents; such that minor pregnancies must only be by women with bad parents - this generalization is not the case….


  38. - A guy - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 11:31 am:

    ==Please tell us more about the legal advice that you imagine is provided at Planned Parenthood clinics…

    – MrJM==

    Ask them yourself. I already have. Go to their site. Snag a brochure. Speak to a young woman or girl who’s been there. Ask a juvenile judge. You’re into research. Do you own and prove me wrong.


  39. - A guy - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 11:31 am:

    And JM,

    List all those tests that are available right there in the clinic too. Like the Mammograms they don’t do. Among many others.


  40. - lakeside - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 11:44 am:

    A guy, are you mad at your doctor when they send you out for blood work or an MRI? For some people PP is their primary care provider because they see people without insurance on a sliding scale. Getting an assessment from a doctor or NP and then going to a mammogram facility is how medicine works.


  41. - FrenchBread - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 12:13 pm:

    Under the age of 18, there needs to be a way for the kid to get the assistance they require. Being 15 and pregnant should not be a life long sentence and keep the religion out of it.


  42. - Anonymous - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 12:26 pm:

    Seeking court approval to override the parental permission, when you’re maybe not old enough to drive yet, don’t have a bank account or credit cards yet, and don’t make any significant income, and live in a more rural area, make me concerned regarding equal protection under the law. Technically, the girl has the option to petition the court, but if she can’t exercise it at will, or only at great difficulty, or with an attached public record and social stigma, with no privayc, does she -really- have it? Rich kids have always had more options in such cases, usually involving “going abroad on a holiday”. I can’t see that happening for a poor kid from a broken home with problematic parenting, in the Metro East.


  43. - wondering wendy - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 12:38 pm:

    Can’t buy cigarettes, but can have an abortion? Ridiculous. This isn’t about religion, this is about the responsibility of a parent/guardian.


  44. - A guy - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 12:52 pm:

    ==For some people PP is their primary care provider ==

    And yet they don’t provide the care or testing. It may be their primary visit, but not their care provider…they exist primarily for but one procedure; abortions.


  45. - A Jack - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 12:54 pm:

    If CCI is advocating for parental notification, isn’t that an admittance that abstinence teaching does not work?

    And if abstinence does not work, shouldn’t the CCI be advocating for teenagers to have better access to birth control to prevent unwanted pregnancies?


  46. - A guy - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 12:58 pm:

    Lakeside, I don’t know your gender, but if you are a woman, you will know you’re entitled to a free mammogram every year.


  47. - lakeside - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 1:02 pm:

    ==yet they don’t provide the care or testing.==

    As someone who has had multiple tests and procedures at PP over the years, let me give you the relief of being incorrect about that.

    To me, it’s a wacky argument that no doctor is a care provider unless they provide every test and procedure themselves, immediately, in their own office, but we all choose our own hills.


  48. - NorthsideNoMore - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 1:02 pm:

    Whats the Doctors creed ? something like “first do no harm” Whats the harm in having parental/adult family member notification in most cases? The scared kid argument falls short for me. The kid is already scared, but they made one adult decision already, so having conversation with adult might actually be of benefit. Not the local PP counselor that they are not likely to see again. Being pregnant and having a child or an abortion are life altering, not for the average teen to make without support.


  49. - wordslinger - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 1:10 pm:

    And JM,

    –List all those tests that are available right there in the (PP) clinic too. Like the Mammograms they don’t do. Among many others.–

    Guy, your willful ignorance, and willingness to wallow in it, know no bounds.

    Planned Parenthood services other than abortion.

    –STD and HIV testing and treatment

    –Birth control

    –Screening for reproductive cancers (like breast, cervical, testicular, and prostate cancers)

    –Pap tests and well woman exams

    –Vaccines

    –PrEP and PEP (medicines to help prevent HIV)

    –Pregnancy services and prenatal care

    –Transgender health services, including hormone replacement therapy (HRT)

    –Vasectomy and other sterilization services

    Condoms

    …and so much more.

    Along with nurses and doctors, many Planned Parenthood health centers have counselors, social workers, and health educators who can give you information about sexual health parenting skills — like breastfeeding and nutrition — and health insurance and government programs that help you and your family stay healthy.–

    https://www.plannedparenthood.org/about-us/facts-figures


  50. - Stan - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 1:18 pm:

    Has anyone considered that when a minor has an abortion it may be the cover-up of a crime?


  51. - lakeside - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 1:19 pm:

    ==Lakeside, I don’t know your gender, but if you are a woman, you will know you’re entitled to a free mammogram every year.==

    Wut. Do you think women of all ages just pop into the mammogramitorium annually to see how it’s all going in there?

    This has taken a strange turn, but it’s a million percent why women’s health care decisions should be between her and her doctor. And not everybody else.


  52. - Honeybear - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 2:22 pm:

    “a million percent why women’s health care decisions should be between her and her doctor. And not everybody else.”

    Agreed


  53. - A guy - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 2:29 pm:

    ==Guy, your willful ignorance, and willingness to wallow in it, know no bounds.

    Planned Parenthood services other than abortion.==

    Beautiful prose, as always Sling.
    Go to the financials and tell me again how they fund these “clinics”. Aside from the government money I object to.

    I don’t object to healthcare for any person who cannot afford it. Calling the procedure that funds the vast, vast majority of these offices healthcare…just isn’t what I understand healthcare to be.

    Most of those services, and some cases all, are available at clinics that don’t fund themselves (richly in fact) aborting.


  54. - BothSidesofHisMouth - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 2:54 pm:

    Strange to hear that services I have personally received at PP are not provided there. Do some of you realize that not all PP locations even offer abortion services? What do you think the other locations do all day? Just refer people to their abortion clinics? My parents would have kicked me out of our home if they had known I was sexually active as a teen. I was lucky enough to be able to get a ride to PP where I was given free birth control pills so that I did not have any need for their abortion services. Also, as a college student I found it was cheaper to have my annual exams done there than it was at my campus health clinic. Everyone can pretend all they want that PP is an abortion factory but they honestly are women’s health clinics that operate on sliding-income scales. They serve a significant need.


  55. - Reese's Pieces - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 3:10 pm:

    =A guy - “just isn’t what I understand healthcare to be.”=

    Your mansplaining is not helpful, especially when you wrap it up with that tidy little (privileged) comment about not “understanding.” Stop wagging your finger at people from your high horse.

    I was raised in a religious, lower-middle-class family and my parents would be SO DISAPPOINTED if they knew, even today, that I ever sought HEALTHCARE from Planned Parenthood. I went for annual gynecological exams and birth control. The care was delivered, TO ME, in person at a PP clinic for a fee that I could afford (on my “salary” as an UNPAID intern, who worked 2 additional part time jobs just to put gas in my car and try to pay my share for a tiny apartment with 3 roommates.)

    Here’s an idea - if you don’t like abortion, DON’T HAVE ONE.


  56. - A State Employee Guy - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 3:24 pm:

    Using all caps is a wonderful sieve to help determine what I should immediately ignore.


  57. - wordslinger - Friday, Mar 22, 19 @ 3:58 pm:

    Guy, as always, when shown that you’re peddling nonsense, you try a quick change of subject.

    –Go to the financials and tell me again…–

    How about you enlighten us on something with actual facts for once? I know how they’re funded, and for what, but perhaps you should try to back up your claims on your own, like a big kid.

    Some here already cleaned up your false claim that PP provides no other services but abortion. That was willful ignorance or an obvious lie, take your pick.


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