Capitol Fax.com - Your Illinois News Radar » During House prayer, minister asks God to “judge Illinois for the sanctioned destruction of the innocent unborn”
* Pastor Corey Musgrave of the New Beginnings church in Fairfield led the House in its daily prayer today at the invite of Rep. Darren Bailey (R-Xenia), an Eastern Bloc member. Musgrave began by thanking his maker for the “abundance of natural resources you have entrusted us with in the south,” and the “industrial capacity in the north.”
And then he pivoted to the House’s passage of the Reproductive Health Act this week, saying Illinois “has decided to go its own way apart from You.”
So, God, we have made our appeals to the leaders of Illinois this week on behalf of those innocent babies who do not yet have a voice. We have been a voice for those who cannot speak for themselves as You have commanded us. Those appeals were denied, but we have one final appeal left and that is to the courts of Heaven.
God Almighty, I make an appeal to Heaven today, to You the perfect judge, the One who presides over Heaven’s court.
I ask you to rise up, oh God, and judge Illinois for the sanctioned destruction of the innocent unborn. For when Your judgements are in this state, the inhabitants of Illinois learn righteousness. In this House I pray for justice to roll down like water and righteousness like a mighty river. In Your judgement I pray that You would remember mercy for we know that You, oh God, do not want anyone to be destroyed.
I ask this in the name of Your son, the one who died for a sinner like me, the one who was appointed to judge the living and the dead. In the name of Jesus Christ I pray. Amen.
Absolutely inexcusable. He should never be allowed back and his sponsor should be censored and fully rebuked.
Same people would have completely flipped out if the satanists were allowed to preach to the house, as it was they couldn’t handle their display at the capital.
Let’s bring this session on to a close, shall we? The eastern bloc needs some time to gather themselves. See if they can rejoin us by the time veto rolls around.
On its face this offends me… but I’d be a hypocrite if I said it wasn’t appropriate for him to use that opportunity to convey a message like that. If this was someone pleading for social justice or something I agreed with personally then I’d stand by their side and defend their right to speaking their mind in the “people’s” house so I should do the same for those I disagree with.
- Just another Anon - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:04 pm:
That’s the thorny issue with invocations after Town of Greece. You should invite all comers, but you can’t control or limit the content of their invocation.
I moved away from Clay County 39 years ago, but my mother still lives there, and I visit regularly.
Meth is a huge problem in that area. My sister divorced when her husband became opioid addicted and violent. He slid into meth addiction and died from an OD.
I have not been able to find where Rep. Bailey has ever discussed the meth problem in his district. Maybe he should worry about that first.
I know of a preacher who got to speak before the US House and give a prayer there. He had been really upset about many of the Republicans’ actions and Trump’s as well. He, however, decided that it would be improper for him to put politics within his prayer to God.
I think this preacher had every right to say his piece about protecting the unborn but asking for judgement on the General assembly is going beyond prayer into a curse.
- Just another Anon - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:09 pm:
JS Mill, should we read your request as seeking to impose a sanction based upon a citizen’s use of protected speech?
I’m pretty sure God knows the job, and doesn’t need the direction and supervision of sanctimonious, showboating politicians/ministers.
Matthew 6:5.
- Pot calling kettle - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:13 pm:
====I pray for justice to roll down like water and righteousness like a mighty river. ====
If we are going down that road, we might look at which districts in our state (and which states in our union) have seen the greatest impact from recent floods and tornadoes. Perhaps Pastor Musgrave needs to take some time and read the signs…
==You, oh God, do not want anyone to be destroyed==
Last I checked, there are children who are stillborn or born with congenital defects that shorten their life. How does Pastor Musgrave square the circle?
- Just another Anon - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:17 pm:
Undefinedable_Variable & Stark.
Considering that amongst the first things the founding fathers did, after approving the 1st Amendment, was hire paid chaplins for Congress to provide invocations, I and the Supreme Court both would view an argument that the tradition violates that particular amendment with great skepticism (as they did in Town of Greece vs. Galloway). Hell during the 1st Continental Congress there was debate over that very thing wherein Samuel Adams convinced his colleagues by saying “[he] was no bigot, and could hear a prayer from a gentleman of piety and virtue, who was at the same time a friend to his country.”
Sometimes people say things you disagree with. Sometimes people hold firmly held religious views that you disagree with. Sometimes those views and beliefs intersect with pieces of legislation and you get criticized for it. That’s the beauty of the First Amendment and the ability of persons to speak their minds and convictions, in this case, directly to people in power.
Last I checked, he doesn’t have a vote, nor is the content of the invocation pre-screened. Relax.
If you listen closely, there have been thinly veiled political comments many times. This one wasn’t veiled at all, of course. Still, not the first time, won’t be the last.
- Bruce( no not him) - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:28 pm:
I didn’t know daily prayers were a thing in the capitol. Can members extend invites to anyone to give a prayer?
I have no problems with someone using the opportunity given to them to express support for their beliefs. I do wonder why pastors are given said opportunity, though I don’t know that I am opposed as long as others are granted the same opportunity.
I see no need for an invocation at all, given that many citizens are either nonreligious or non-Christian. Problem solved. Traditions change as attitudes change. He can pray for the wrath of God all he wants elsewhere.
When the good preacher intervened with God, to forgive us for our collective sin, for a specific legislative vote we took yesterday— I couldn’t take it anymore and had to turn away from him. First time ever any clergy forced me to lose all respect on the House floor. Bad way to start our last day this session.
The Senate had a similar invocation a few weeks ago.
- Graduated College Student - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:40 pm:
And that’s the end for opening invocations for each daily session. No loss really.
- Just Another Anon - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:49 pm:
JS mill. Way off base. Check out Town of Greece v Galloway. SCOTUS says you are wrong.
The 1A was designed to inhibit fascist tendencies such as those you just expressed. Your concept that a citizen should be sanctioned based upon protected speech (either by himself or his guest) classes the legislature in the same light as countless petty dictators and regimes. The answer to speech you don’t like isn’t censure, it’s more speech.
All 4 sides of my family came to these shores to get away from governments giving a platform to “people” like this. To atone, next time Rep. Bailey can invite the Dali Lama.
Genesis 9:11 (KJV) And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
But did he also pray for those who are born to receive adequate education, food, medical care, and a living wage? I thought not.
- Just Another Anon - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 2:13 pm:
Demoralized
Is there a clause in 1A law that exempts speech inappropriate to the speaker’s capacity or the venue? I seem to recall some speech related to civil rights that was in some inappropriate capacities and venues.
It’s simple, either you support the rights of individuals to say things you disagree with, in ways and places you don’t like, or you don’t. If you do, you support the first amendment and individual rights. If you don’t, you oppose free speech and ideas, which is sad and a hallmark of every authoritarian regime on the face of the Earth. Sanctioning the speaker simply because you disagree with him or his ideas made you uncomfortable is a violation of the bedrock principle upon which America was founded.
You operate under the false assumption that people can say whatever they want to say whenever they want to say it without repurcussions. Sometimes speech comes with consequences.
I happen to think what he did was inappropriate. It doesn’t mean I’m an authoritarian. That’s your ridiculous spin on it.
This is not a First Amendment issue. No one has the right to come and address the GA at will. Because of that, they have every right to prevent anyone from speaking or limit their remarks. But who would be that crass to do so? Better to not invoke at all.
It is a bit of the Old Testament thought process asking for the wrath of God. But must admit when we destroy innocent life and abort babies at will it is not a good scene. Politics and religion will always go together because they touch upon the same issues. These would be governance in general and moral order of some kind, along with freedom. Separating religion and politics is not possible and it seems many want freedom from religion. God hears and he gives us the complete freedom to totally ignore Him.
We are pretty close to eugenics it is coming pretty fast.
Let’s just do away with prayer in the GA.
Completely serious.
Let’s fully 100% execute that separation between church and state thing.
Then, problem solved. No arguments about my religion is better than yours, limiting free speech, religious freedom, etc.
Time to do away with some old “traditions”.
=JS mill. Way off base. Check out Town of Greece v Galloway. SCOTUS says you are wrong.=
Go back and look at the plain language. In this case government was, by sanctioning his religious expression (if giving him the floor of the house isn’t sanctioning then I don’t know what is), establishing a preference of religion above others.
The bill of rights are protections of people from government. Speaking as he was he was acting as government and I am protected from government establishing a religion.
So I’ve told this story here before.
Day 1 of Navy Chaplain School, Newport,RI.
Rabbi Kaprow: “Let us bow our heads for an invocation before class.”
( In a booming voice )
OH MIGHTY ZEUS BE WITH US NOW
SMIGHT THINE ENEMIES
IN THE NAME OF ZEUS WE PRAY
I thought several of the more non denominational chaplains might faint. Seriously
Rabbi Kaprow: ” That shipmates, is why you don’t pray in a specific name. Not in Jesus’s name or Buddha’s name and you keep your prayer neutral and for the most part uplifting.
Because if you can pray in Jesus’s name
Someone else can pray in Zeus’s name.
If you can pray in a specific religions/sectarian way, someone else can.
Now let us bow our heads for a proper invocation,
Almight,
Be with our legislators this day as they carry out the work of our people.
May they….
….
….
In Your Holy Name we pray
Amen
Nobody offended
Everyone who wants to be, uplifted
Someone earlier said this, but if you are going to have a prayer (and legislators like to be able to have clergy from their district come and participate in session), then you have to take all comers. You are going to have situations like this. The visiting clergy are asked to avoid inflammatory language etc….and some of them ignore that advice. There have been at least a couple of invocations this year that were similarly over the top. Most do a great job at praying for the body and framing the day’s work as an act of service.
- Just another Anon - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 3:12 pm:
Demoralized. If you are asking the government to sanction him or his sponsor, then you are asking the government to suppress his protected speech. That is authoritarian.
-We do what we do for His Glory, not man’s. Amen.-
Uh…because each persons conception and understanding of God is different, I’ll just go with what I think my Loving and Gracious God would maybe think of such an exclusionary divisive prayer.
“Ewwww” says my God
Please stow your sanctimoniousness in its upright and locked position ma’am, it’s going to be a rough day bringing this flight in for a landing.
Can you read and comprehend? Because your responses don’t appear to indicate that you can.
Enough with your authoritarian nonsense. I’ve said that I believe it was inappropriate for him to do what he did. That doesn’t make me an “authoritarian” so buzz off with your nonsense.
That should be what the invocation is for. Not to walk into the Illinois General Assembly and use it as a platform to “pray” for “judgment” on the state by God. I don’t know what God he believes in but it certainly isn’t the same one I believe in if he believes his God is in the business of reigning judgment down on people. He must be reading a different New Testament than I am.
Pastor Musgrave sounds like those nuts who insisted that Hurricane Katrina was God’s punishment of New Orleans for all the sinning going on there. Best just to ignore them. They seem to be mighty quiet about how God is allowing New Orleans to be rebuilt and they’ll be mighty quiet when God doesn’t send a flood that puts Illinois underwater.
The pastor did a great job. It’s bad enough the leftists here have to force post-viability abortion for any reason to be legal, you can’t even deal with people expressing their sincere concern from a religious viewpoint. Everything has to go through your secular lens. Give it a break. You got your extreme bill passed.
@Chris Iverson “expressing … sincere concern from a religious viewpoint” does not include praying for God to rain down destruction on Illinois and hedging your bets that the Almighty may not agree so you ask Him for mercy. Just sayin’.
===“abundance of natural resources you have entrusted us with in the south,” and the “industrial capacity in the north.”===
Lets just ignore the theology of what he said, because that’s certainly not settled.
Did this guy stop receiving formal education after his 9th grade history class and think that Illinois represents an allegory between ‘the South’ and ‘the North’ as defined by the American Civil War?
Because by Zeus the Father he started his statements with a load of ignorance that can’t be hidden behind faith.
- btowntruth from forgottonia - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 4:35 pm:
Drama queen.Attention seeker.Phony.
Trying to play to what he thinks his base is.
I wonder where his pearl clutching dramatic tones were when Rauner signed HB40 back in 2017.
Oh and “I pray for justice to roll down like water and righteousness like a mighty river”?
Looks like a certain preacher is mighty tone deaf and hasn’t watched the teevee or read the newspapers lately.
Smoothness,thy names are Bailey and Musgrave.
–Did this guy stop receiving formal education after his 9th grade history class and think that Illinois represents an allegory between ‘the South’ and ‘the North’ as defined by the American Civil War?–
Not even allegory. He’s describing the South’s view of the antebellum economic division (of course, there were massive natural resources in the North).
The Eastern Bloc doesn’t hide its light under a bushel when it invokes The Lost Cause.
So, “Love thy neighbor as thyself” — that’s optional?
- btowntruth from forgottonia - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 4:43 pm:
Mary and Chris:
Was “I pray for justice to roll down like water and righteousness like a mighty river” a bit of overkill to you considering the flooding around our state?
And did you get all over Rauner for signing HB40 back in 21017 or did you vote for him again last year?
==folks who support legalizing abortion in the 9th month for any reason==
Was that in the bill, or on Hannity?
- Trying to reach the unreachable - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 4:50 pm:
I praise the man of God that isn’t afraid to pray or preach the truth.At the rate Illinois is going, in twenty years it’s going to be another Los Angeles.
@Harvest SB25 allows post-viability abortion for the woman’s health, which is defined so broadly that when asked, Sen Democrats could not name a single situation when an abortion would not be permitted post-viability. If leftists want that, let’s at least be honest about what the bill allows. Post-viable unborn humans are the developmental equivalent of newborns. If someone does this to a prematurely born newborn at 7 months, they go to jail for a very long time. If they do this to a human that is older and more developed in the 9th month in the womb, it will be legal under SB25 (RHA).
- Graduated College Student - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 5:10 pm:
@Chris
What do we call it and do when the preemie dies in the hospital because of a lack of quality medical care?
@Chris. I have no quarrel with sincere debate about proposed (or enacted) legislation. I do have a problem with those who pray for death and destruction. Moreover, Pastor Musgrave’s prayer included harming those who have nothing to do with what is happening in Springfield. Floods kill people, make people ill, destroy property (including farmland that is used to help feed us all), and ruin businesses and jobs. My complaint is not about “decorum”; it’s about the use of prayer to ask for harm unto others.
@Graduated - Lack of medical care for any class or group of people is not a justification for the intentional unjustified taking of innocent human life, including unborn humans in the 9th month.
@Bourbon - I’m less concerned about prayer requesting justice and more concerned about legislation allowing the intentional taking of a babies life (I hope we can agree that a fully formed unborn human at 9 months is a baby).
- Graduated College Student - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 5:58 pm:
@Chris
Granted it depends on the faith, but I was always taught growing up that you are born sinful and by extension not innocent.
@Graduated - We’re talking about legalization of killing a baby that is the developmental equivalent of a newborn. There’s no need to quibble about definitions of innocent. If you want to discuss the substance of the bill, go for it. Otherwise, have a nice weekend.
@Chris. “Justice” is not a flood that kills and destroys because of the decisions of a legislature.
Also, the propaganda that asserts that women who are in the last trimester of their pregnancies are deciding to abort because they’ve decided they simply don’t want a baby is ridiculous at best and slanderous at worst. Talk to any woman who had a late-term abortion and she will tell you a heart-breaking story about a necessary medical decision. These women are grieving.
- Graduated College Student - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 8:47 pm:
Chris the substance of the bill is this.
We recognize that all American women everywhere have a right to choose what happens with their bodies. We also understand that logistical, chronological, and financial burdens, as well as the timing of certain tests preclude women from following through with abortions if they so desire in large chunks of the country. In recognition of those burdens, we wish to place as few hurdles as possible on them beyond actually coming to a safe clinic in Illinois’ borders.
You want to prune back third trimester abortions? Make first and second trimester abortions more accessible in the rest of the country.
- Union Thug Gramma - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 9:16 pm:
So, if he’s so worried about the fetus, why isn’t he also advocating for prenatal health care? Oh, again, it’s just chain the woman, who cares if the baby actually is healthy when born.
Word - As an atheist born into a long line of bible thumping evangelical preachers, prayer was taught at the grandmother’s knee and meant to be strongly worded and to the point, fervently asking god for what you want. So if Musgrave is calling for god’s judgment, he may as well ask for the whole nine yards. Because from experience, I have yet to ever have a prayer answered. So Musgrave’s prayer was a waste of breath.
He didn’t pray his own words and ideas. Those words are directly from scripture, and there is nothing more powerful on earth. I wouldn’t want to be a resident of Illinois for anything.
To the atheists, liberals, progressives, do you not not see what destructive consequences could come upon you. Abortions has nothing to do with Life. Do you want life or death, blessings or curses? You’re shaking your hand at God in a defiant,stubborn and prideful way. Do you really want to test God this way? God is a God of His word. I pray God will open your eyes and ears of your heart. Humble yourself and ask for His mercy and forgiveness, before He humbles you.
- JS Mill - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:00 pm:
Absolutely inexcusable. He should never be allowed back and his sponsor should be censored and fully rebuked.
Same people would have completely flipped out if the satanists were allowed to preach to the house, as it was they couldn’t handle their display at the capital.
- lakeside - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:03 pm:
Let’s bring this session on to a close, shall we? The eastern bloc needs some time to gather themselves. See if they can rejoin us by the time veto rolls around.
- Concerned Dem - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:03 pm:
On its face this offends me… but I’d be a hypocrite if I said it wasn’t appropriate for him to use that opportunity to convey a message like that. If this was someone pleading for social justice or something I agreed with personally then I’d stand by their side and defend their right to speaking their mind in the “people’s” house so I should do the same for those I disagree with.
- Melido Perez - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:04 pm:
so, he’s not getting invited back?
- Just another Anon - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:04 pm:
That’s the thorny issue with invocations after Town of Greece. You should invite all comers, but you can’t control or limit the content of their invocation.
- Fixer - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:05 pm:
Stay classy, Bailey…
- @misterjayem - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:05 pm:
Notice how much nicer the weather’s been this week?
She has judged Illinois.
– MrJM
- Undefinedable_Variable - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:07 pm:
Whatever happened to separation of church and state? Why is this holy man invited?
- RIJ - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:08 pm:
I moved away from Clay County 39 years ago, but my mother still lives there, and I visit regularly.
Meth is a huge problem in that area. My sister divorced when her husband became opioid addicted and violent. He slid into meth addiction and died from an OD.
I have not been able to find where Rep. Bailey has ever discussed the meth problem in his district. Maybe he should worry about that first.
- Stark - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:08 pm:
Something something religion is supposed to have no place in government.
- Just Lurking - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:08 pm:
“I pray for justice to roll down like water and righteousness like a mighty river”
That’s an interesting metaphor when so much of the state is dealing with flooding. Is it supposed to be the wrath of the Almighty?
This is an example of why separation of church and state is a good thing.
- Happy Dude - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:09 pm:
I know of a preacher who got to speak before the US House and give a prayer there. He had been really upset about many of the Republicans’ actions and Trump’s as well. He, however, decided that it would be improper for him to put politics within his prayer to God.
I think this preacher had every right to say his piece about protecting the unborn but asking for judgement on the General assembly is going beyond prayer into a curse.
- Just another Anon - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:09 pm:
JS Mill, should we read your request as seeking to impose a sanction based upon a citizen’s use of protected speech?
- Just Observing - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:09 pm:
I’m pro-choice, but not really offended by this. It’s a risk the legislature takes when inviting prayer into the capitol.
- Huh? - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:11 pm:
“I pray for justice to roll down like water and righteousness like a mighty river”
Enough with praying for rain. We’ve had the wettest spring on record. Pretty soon we will have to build a ark and start collecting the animals 2 by 2.
- wordslinger - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:11 pm:
I’m pretty sure God knows the job, and doesn’t need the direction and supervision of sanctimonious, showboating politicians/ministers.
Matthew 6:5.
- Pot calling kettle - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:13 pm:
====I pray for justice to roll down like water and righteousness like a mighty river. ====
If we are going down that road, we might look at which districts in our state (and which states in our union) have seen the greatest impact from recent floods and tornadoes. Perhaps Pastor Musgrave needs to take some time and read the signs…
- 47th Ward - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:13 pm:
Matthew 7:1-5
- Jocko - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:15 pm:
==You, oh God, do not want anyone to be destroyed==
Last I checked, there are children who are stillborn or born with congenital defects that shorten their life. How does Pastor Musgrave square the circle?
- Just another Anon - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:17 pm:
Undefinedable_Variable & Stark.
Considering that amongst the first things the founding fathers did, after approving the 1st Amendment, was hire paid chaplins for Congress to provide invocations, I and the Supreme Court both would view an argument that the tradition violates that particular amendment with great skepticism (as they did in Town of Greece vs. Galloway). Hell during the 1st Continental Congress there was debate over that very thing wherein Samuel Adams convinced his colleagues by saying “[he] was no bigot, and could hear a prayer from a gentleman of piety and virtue, who was at the same time a friend to his country.”
Sometimes people say things you disagree with. Sometimes people hold firmly held religious views that you disagree with. Sometimes those views and beliefs intersect with pieces of legislation and you get criticized for it. That’s the beauty of the First Amendment and the ability of persons to speak their minds and convictions, in this case, directly to people in power.
- JS Mill - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:18 pm:
=JS Mill, should we read your request as seeking to impose a sanction based upon a citizen’s use of protected speech?=
Sure.
But that wasn’t the time or the place to ask for God’s wrath.
And, many in the state are not christians.
Totally inappropriate and a violation of the establishment clause of the constitution.
Since you are talking speech and rights.
- Politix - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:18 pm:
Absolutely ridiculous. There most definitely should be consequences for this.
- Henry Francis - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:19 pm:
Jeeze. In addition to what others here have said about his judgy, wrathy stuff, what about this language:
“Natural resources in the south” industrial capacity in the North” “Illinois decided to go its own way apart”
He ain’t just whistling Dixie.
- Huh? - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:20 pm:
“I pray for justice to roll down like water and righteousness like a mighty river”
What, no conflagration to go with the inundation?
Pestilence?
Famine?
Disease?
Smiting your foe on the head?
4 horsemen of the apocalypse?
Come on, pray for what you really want.
- Suburban Mom - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:24 pm:
This is why we can’t have nice things
- Truthseeker - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:27 pm:
Last I checked, he doesn’t have a vote, nor is the content of the invocation pre-screened. Relax.
If you listen closely, there have been thinly veiled political comments many times. This one wasn’t veiled at all, of course. Still, not the first time, won’t be the last.
- Bruce( no not him) - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:28 pm:
Someone actually listened to the prayer?
- Perrid - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:29 pm:
I didn’t know daily prayers were a thing in the capitol. Can members extend invites to anyone to give a prayer?
I have no problems with someone using the opportunity given to them to express support for their beliefs. I do wonder why pastors are given said opportunity, though I don’t know that I am opposed as long as others are granted the same opportunity.
- Token Conservative - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:30 pm:
You liberals are so predictable. You love free speech until you disagree with it.
- Brendan - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:32 pm:
Someone should have audibly said. “that’s enough of that”
- Jibba - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:32 pm:
I see no need for an invocation at all, given that many citizens are either nonreligious or non-Christian. Problem solved. Traditions change as attitudes change. He can pray for the wrath of God all he wants elsewhere.
- TheInvisibleMan - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:33 pm:
Let me guess where this guy is from. I’ll only need one guess.
- walker - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:33 pm:
When the good preacher intervened with God, to forgive us for our collective sin, for a specific legislative vote we took yesterday— I couldn’t take it anymore and had to turn away from him. First time ever any clergy forced me to lose all respect on the House floor. Bad way to start our last day this session.
- May 31 - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:34 pm:
The Senate had a similar invocation a few weeks ago.
- Graduated College Student - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:40 pm:
And that’s the end for opening invocations for each daily session. No loss really.
- Just Another Anon - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:49 pm:
JS mill. Way off base. Check out Town of Greece v Galloway. SCOTUS says you are wrong.
The 1A was designed to inhibit fascist tendencies such as those you just expressed. Your concept that a citizen should be sanctioned based upon protected speech (either by himself or his guest) classes the legislature in the same light as countless petty dictators and regimes. The answer to speech you don’t like isn’t censure, it’s more speech.
- Smitty Irving - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:55 pm:
All 4 sides of my family came to these shores to get away from governments giving a platform to “people” like this. To atone, next time Rep. Bailey can invite the Dali Lama.
- Wensicia - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:56 pm:
Genesis 9:11 (KJV) And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
- Demoralized - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 2:01 pm:
Praying for Illinois to be “judged.” But hoping no one is “destroyed.”
This is exactly the kind of thing that turns people off of organized religion. Those that believe they are holier than thou.
- Demoralized - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 2:03 pm:
==Your concept that a citizen should be sanctioned based upon protected speech ==
It was inappropriate to do that in the capacity in which he was serving. If you can’t see that then I don’t know what to tell you.
- Domer 84 - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 2:08 pm:
But did he also pray for those who are born to receive adequate education, food, medical care, and a living wage? I thought not.
- Just Another Anon - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 2:13 pm:
Demoralized
Is there a clause in 1A law that exempts speech inappropriate to the speaker’s capacity or the venue? I seem to recall some speech related to civil rights that was in some inappropriate capacities and venues.
It’s simple, either you support the rights of individuals to say things you disagree with, in ways and places you don’t like, or you don’t. If you do, you support the first amendment and individual rights. If you don’t, you oppose free speech and ideas, which is sad and a hallmark of every authoritarian regime on the face of the Earth. Sanctioning the speaker simply because you disagree with him or his ideas made you uncomfortable is a violation of the bedrock principle upon which America was founded.
- 47th Ward - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 2:20 pm:
===I ask this in the name of Your son,===
That must have been terribly inspirational to the Jewish members, staff and visitors present.
- Demoralized - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 2:27 pm:
You operate under the false assumption that people can say whatever they want to say whenever they want to say it without repurcussions. Sometimes speech comes with consequences.
I happen to think what he did was inappropriate. It doesn’t mean I’m an authoritarian. That’s your ridiculous spin on it.
- Normal Norma - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 2:28 pm:
“Speaking Truth to Power” is a 2 Way Street
- libDollaz - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 2:29 pm:
“- Token Conservative - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 1:30 pm:
You liberals are so predictable. You love free speech until you disagree with it. ”
Lol. And the same could be said about conservatives and the constitution. Separation of what? Come on selector.
- JIbba - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 2:29 pm:
This is not a First Amendment issue. No one has the right to come and address the GA at will. Because of that, they have every right to prevent anyone from speaking or limit their remarks. But who would be that crass to do so? Better to not invoke at all.
- Anonymous - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 2:41 pm:
It is a bit of the Old Testament thought process asking for the wrath of God. But must admit when we destroy innocent life and abort babies at will it is not a good scene. Politics and religion will always go together because they touch upon the same issues. These would be governance in general and moral order of some kind, along with freedom. Separating religion and politics is not possible and it seems many want freedom from religion. God hears and he gives us the complete freedom to totally ignore Him.
We are pretty close to eugenics it is coming pretty fast.
- cler dcn - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 2:42 pm:
That last post was mine on the OT thoughts forgot to hit my handle.
- Left Leaner - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 2:42 pm:
Let’s just do away with prayer in the GA.
Completely serious.
Let’s fully 100% execute that separation between church and state thing.
Then, problem solved. No arguments about my religion is better than yours, limiting free speech, religious freedom, etc.
Time to do away with some old “traditions”.
- Pundent - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 2:48 pm:
Left Leaner - amen
- wordslinger - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 2:51 pm:
–We are pretty close to eugenics it is coming pretty fast.–
Abortions in the United States are at the lowest level on record and the trend continues downward.
So, you’re crazy wrong about “eugenics.” Rejoice.
http://time.com/5461616/abortions-lowest-rate-cdc/
- Mary Margarey - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 2:55 pm:
Go ahead and mock, slander, insult. Doesn’t matter. We do what we do for His Glory, not man’s. Amen.
- JS Mill - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 2:57 pm:
=JS mill. Way off base. Check out Town of Greece v Galloway. SCOTUS says you are wrong.=
Go back and look at the plain language. In this case government was, by sanctioning his religious expression (if giving him the floor of the house isn’t sanctioning then I don’t know what is), establishing a preference of religion above others.
The bill of rights are protections of people from government. Speaking as he was he was acting as government and I am protected from government establishing a religion.
- Honeybear - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 3:02 pm:
So I’ve told this story here before.
Day 1 of Navy Chaplain School, Newport,RI.
Rabbi Kaprow: “Let us bow our heads for an invocation before class.”
( In a booming voice )
OH MIGHTY ZEUS BE WITH US NOW
SMIGHT THINE ENEMIES
IN THE NAME OF ZEUS WE PRAY
I thought several of the more non denominational chaplains might faint. Seriously
Rabbi Kaprow: ” That shipmates, is why you don’t pray in a specific name. Not in Jesus’s name or Buddha’s name and you keep your prayer neutral and for the most part uplifting.
Because if you can pray in Jesus’s name
Someone else can pray in Zeus’s name.
If you can pray in a specific religions/sectarian way, someone else can.
Now let us bow our heads for a proper invocation,
Almight,
Be with our legislators this day as they carry out the work of our people.
May they….
….
….
In Your Holy Name we pray
Amen
Nobody offended
Everyone who wants to be, uplifted
- Nova - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 3:06 pm:
Someone earlier said this, but if you are going to have a prayer (and legislators like to be able to have clergy from their district come and participate in session), then you have to take all comers. You are going to have situations like this. The visiting clergy are asked to avoid inflammatory language etc….and some of them ignore that advice. There have been at least a couple of invocations this year that were similarly over the top. Most do a great job at praying for the body and framing the day’s work as an act of service.
- Just another Anon - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 3:12 pm:
Demoralized. If you are asking the government to sanction him or his sponsor, then you are asking the government to suppress his protected speech. That is authoritarian.
- Honeybear - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 3:15 pm:
-We do what we do for His Glory, not man’s. Amen.-
Uh…because each persons conception and understanding of God is different, I’ll just go with what I think my Loving and Gracious God would maybe think of such an exclusionary divisive prayer.
“Ewwww” says my God
Please stow your sanctimoniousness in its upright and locked position ma’am, it’s going to be a rough day bringing this flight in for a landing.
- Pick a Name - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 3:18 pm:
This state just gets more and more liberal—sigh.
- Mittuns - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 3:28 pm:
Enough with the prayers in the legislature.
- Demoralized - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 3:36 pm:
==This state just gets more and more liberal—sigh.==
Oh please. Chastising someone for praying that the state be “judged” isn’t “liberal.” I’m a Christian and I found his prayer to be pretty despicable.
- Morty - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 3:36 pm:
Right-wingers just love the apocalyptic stuff
- Demoralized - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 3:38 pm:
Just Another Citizen
Can you read and comprehend? Because your responses don’t appear to indicate that you can.
Enough with your authoritarian nonsense. I’ve said that I believe it was inappropriate for him to do what he did. That doesn’t make me an “authoritarian” so buzz off with your nonsense.
- Demoralized - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 3:41 pm:
==Most do a great job at praying for the body==
That should be what the invocation is for. Not to walk into the Illinois General Assembly and use it as a platform to “pray” for “judgment” on the state by God. I don’t know what God he believes in but it certainly isn’t the same one I believe in if he believes his God is in the business of reigning judgment down on people. He must be reading a different New Testament than I am.
- Pick a Name - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 3:47 pm:
When the choice is callous disregard for lives, it is tough to read some of the comments here.
- Bourbon Street - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 3:51 pm:
Pastor Musgrave sounds like those nuts who insisted that Hurricane Katrina was God’s punishment of New Orleans for all the sinning going on there. Best just to ignore them. They seem to be mighty quiet about how God is allowing New Orleans to be rebuilt and they’ll be mighty quiet when God doesn’t send a flood that puts Illinois underwater.
- Chippy Dave - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 3:51 pm:
Since he was obviously engaging in lobbying the legislature, will his church lose their tax exempt status?
- Chris Iverson - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 3:59 pm:
The pastor did a great job. It’s bad enough the leftists here have to force post-viability abortion for any reason to be legal, you can’t even deal with people expressing their sincere concern from a religious viewpoint. Everything has to go through your secular lens. Give it a break. You got your extreme bill passed.
- Bourbon Street - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 4:07 pm:
@Chris Iverson “expressing … sincere concern from a religious viewpoint” does not include praying for God to rain down destruction on Illinois and hedging your bets that the Almighty may not agree so you ask Him for mercy. Just sayin’.
- Tom Gooch - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 4:07 pm:
Bet he wont get invited back. Next time invite a Wiccan
- midway gardens - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 4:08 pm:
== This state just gets more and more liberal—sigh.
Too bad we aren’t quite liberal enough to stop holding a prayer to an imaginary being.
- RIJ - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 4:22 pm:
Conservatives are so predictable. They laud free speech for themselves but whine when someone uses free speech to react.
- Candy Dogood - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 4:29 pm:
===“abundance of natural resources you have entrusted us with in the south,” and the “industrial capacity in the north.”===
Lets just ignore the theology of what he said, because that’s certainly not settled.
Did this guy stop receiving formal education after his 9th grade history class and think that Illinois represents an allegory between ‘the South’ and ‘the North’ as defined by the American Civil War?
Because by Zeus the Father he started his statements with a load of ignorance that can’t be hidden behind faith.
- btowntruth from forgottonia - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 4:35 pm:
Drama queen.Attention seeker.Phony.
Trying to play to what he thinks his base is.
I wonder where his pearl clutching dramatic tones were when Rauner signed HB40 back in 2017.
Oh and “I pray for justice to roll down like water and righteousness like a mighty river”?
Looks like a certain preacher is mighty tone deaf and hasn’t watched the teevee or read the newspapers lately.
Smoothness,thy names are Bailey and Musgrave.
- Chris Iverson - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 4:40 pm:
@Bourbon Complaints about decorum from folks who support legalizing abortion in the 9th month for any reason are not worthy of being entertained.
- wordslinger - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 4:40 pm:
–Did this guy stop receiving formal education after his 9th grade history class and think that Illinois represents an allegory between ‘the South’ and ‘the North’ as defined by the American Civil War?–
Not even allegory. He’s describing the South’s view of the antebellum economic division (of course, there were massive natural resources in the North).
The Eastern Bloc doesn’t hide its light under a bushel when it invokes The Lost Cause.
- wordslinger - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 4:43 pm:
– We do what we do for His Glory, not man’s.–
So, “Love thy neighbor as thyself” — that’s optional?
- btowntruth from forgottonia - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 4:43 pm:
Mary and Chris:
Was “I pray for justice to roll down like water and righteousness like a mighty river” a bit of overkill to you considering the flooding around our state?
And did you get all over Rauner for signing HB40 back in 21017 or did you vote for him again last year?
- Harvest76 - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 4:44 pm:
==folks who support legalizing abortion in the 9th month for any reason==
Was that in the bill, or on Hannity?
- Trying to reach the unreachable - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 4:50 pm:
I praise the man of God that isn’t afraid to pray or preach the truth.At the rate Illinois is going, in twenty years it’s going to be another Los Angeles.
- Chris Iverson - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 4:58 pm:
@Harvest SB25 allows post-viability abortion for the woman’s health, which is defined so broadly that when asked, Sen Democrats could not name a single situation when an abortion would not be permitted post-viability. If leftists want that, let’s at least be honest about what the bill allows. Post-viable unborn humans are the developmental equivalent of newborns. If someone does this to a prematurely born newborn at 7 months, they go to jail for a very long time. If they do this to a human that is older and more developed in the 9th month in the womb, it will be legal under SB25 (RHA).
- Graduated College Student - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 5:10 pm:
@Chris
What do we call it and do when the preemie dies in the hospital because of a lack of quality medical care?
- Preacher - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 5:23 pm:
This is a written speech and not a true prayer. True prayer only comes from the heart. Biblical Christians know this. Very bad example.
- Bourbon Street - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 5:26 pm:
@Chris. I have no quarrel with sincere debate about proposed (or enacted) legislation. I do have a problem with those who pray for death and destruction. Moreover, Pastor Musgrave’s prayer included harming those who have nothing to do with what is happening in Springfield. Floods kill people, make people ill, destroy property (including farmland that is used to help feed us all), and ruin businesses and jobs. My complaint is not about “decorum”; it’s about the use of prayer to ask for harm unto others.
- Chris Iverson - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 5:42 pm:
@Graduated - Lack of medical care for any class or group of people is not a justification for the intentional unjustified taking of innocent human life, including unborn humans in the 9th month.
@Bourbon - I’m less concerned about prayer requesting justice and more concerned about legislation allowing the intentional taking of a babies life (I hope we can agree that a fully formed unborn human at 9 months is a baby).
- Graduated College Student - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 5:58 pm:
@Chris
Granted it depends on the faith, but I was always taught growing up that you are born sinful and by extension not innocent.
- Chris Iverson - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 6:05 pm:
@Graduated - We’re talking about legalization of killing a baby that is the developmental equivalent of a newborn. There’s no need to quibble about definitions of innocent. If you want to discuss the substance of the bill, go for it. Otherwise, have a nice weekend.
- Bourbon Street - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 6:10 pm:
@Chris. “Justice” is not a flood that kills and destroys because of the decisions of a legislature.
Also, the propaganda that asserts that women who are in the last trimester of their pregnancies are deciding to abort because they’ve decided they simply don’t want a baby is ridiculous at best and slanderous at worst. Talk to any woman who had a late-term abortion and she will tell you a heart-breaking story about a necessary medical decision. These women are grieving.
- Pick a Name - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 8:07 pm:
Well stated Chris
- Graduated College Student - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 8:47 pm:
Chris the substance of the bill is this.
We recognize that all American women everywhere have a right to choose what happens with their bodies. We also understand that logistical, chronological, and financial burdens, as well as the timing of certain tests preclude women from following through with abortions if they so desire in large chunks of the country. In recognition of those burdens, we wish to place as few hurdles as possible on them beyond actually coming to a safe clinic in Illinois’ borders.
You want to prune back third trimester abortions? Make first and second trimester abortions more accessible in the rest of the country.
- Union Thug Gramma - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 9:16 pm:
So, if he’s so worried about the fetus, why isn’t he also advocating for prenatal health care? Oh, again, it’s just chain the woman, who cares if the baby actually is healthy when born.
- wordslinger - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 10:42 pm:
–What, no conflagration to go with the inundation?
Pestilence?
Famine?
Disease?
Smiting your foe on the head?
4 horsemen of the apocalypse?
Come on, pray for what you really want.–
Let’s not go nuts.
It’s not like he’s on the tronc edit board.
- Huh? - Friday, May 31, 19 @ 11:52 pm:
Word - As an atheist born into a long line of bible thumping evangelical preachers, prayer was taught at the grandmother’s knee and meant to be strongly worded and to the point, fervently asking god for what you want. So if Musgrave is calling for god’s judgment, he may as well ask for the whole nine yards. Because from experience, I have yet to ever have a prayer answered. So Musgrave’s prayer was a waste of breath.
- Oldbiker - Saturday, Jun 1, 19 @ 5:22 am:
Separation of Church and State or tax the churches.
- DiRT - Saturday, Jun 1, 19 @ 9:07 am:
Cool story. Still murder.
- Sue. - Thursday, Jun 6, 19 @ 10:11 am:
He didn’t pray his own words and ideas. Those words are directly from scripture, and there is nothing more powerful on earth. I wouldn’t want to be a resident of Illinois for anything.
- Harvest76 - Thursday, Jun 6, 19 @ 10:15 am:
== I wouldn’t want to be a resident of Illinois for anything.==
Well, most of us can probably agree with you on that. Please stay where you are.
- Denner - Thursday, Jun 13, 19 @ 11:07 pm:
To the atheists, liberals, progressives, do you not not see what destructive consequences could come upon you. Abortions has nothing to do with Life. Do you want life or death, blessings or curses? You’re shaking your hand at God in a defiant,stubborn and prideful way. Do you really want to test God this way? God is a God of His word. I pray God will open your eyes and ears of your heart. Humble yourself and ask for His mercy and forgiveness, before He humbles you.