CTU to Lightfoot: Nope
Monday, Oct 21, 2019 - Posted by Rich Miller
* Mayor Lori Lightfoot’s office released her letter to the CTU asking for an end to the strike while bargaining continues. An excerpt…
What we’ve seen is that our students and families are sacrificing a great deal that cannot be recovered. While we have made progress at the bargaining table, it is unclear that we can reach an agreement today given the current pace. The students and families of Chicago cannot afford to be out of school for any longer, which is why we are asking you to end the strike and encourage your members to return to work while bargaining continues. As someone who is concerned about the success of our students, we hope you see how necessary it is to reopen schools at this time.
In recent days, parents have told us how they are struggling to arrange childcare or face missing work. The economic hardships to families will be difficult to ever calculate.
Seniors applying to college told us they are worried about their applications and letters of recommendation. In fact, a college fair at Whitney Young scheduled over the weekend had to be canceled.
The Simeon football team, one of the top programs in Illinois, will be ineligible for the state playoffs if the strike is not resolved by Tuesday. Our girls tennis teams were forced to forfeit every match in the state tournament this weekend. Our boys soccer teams, including Solorio High School, looking for its second championship in three years, were unable to participate in the state playoffs.
And perhaps most importantly, with school not in session, it is much more challenging to ensure the health and well-being of our students. Even with school buildings — as well as partner and delegate agencies — remaining open and providing meals and snacks, the fact remains that our students’ safety and access to healthy food are far more at risk without the structure of a full school day.
* The CTU’s response…
- Anon E Moose - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:24 pm:
Cool meme, CTU. Where were you during the investigations into sexual assault at CPS by some of your members?
- Fact Check - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:26 pm:
Is it true that a CPS teacher average salary is currently
$81K?
Is it true that a teachers average salary in NY city is $72K
Is it true that under the Mayor’s current proposal, a teacher with over 5 years of service will make over $100K a year?
- Dybalaton - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:31 pm:
The median household income in Chicago is $52k. A starting teacher makes more than that. Why would we expect taxpayers to pay so significantly more than the median household income for a first year teacher?
I think your figures are more less correct Fact Check.
- Montrose - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:31 pm:
-Fact Check-
Is it true that you have not been paying attention to what the CTU has been focusing on in the negotiations?
Yes. Yes it is.
- lake county democrat - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:35 pm:
Montrose: Yes, after securing a decent pay raise, they’ve been focused adding more school nurses and librarians than most suburban schools have so that come next negotiation they have some fat to cut that won’t affect teachers.
- Rich Miller - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:36 pm:
===Why would we expect taxpayers to pay so significantly more than the median household income for a first year teacher? ===
You cannot truly believe that.
- Montrose - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:39 pm:
“Montrose: Yes, after securing a decent pay raise, they’ve been focused adding more school nurses and librarians than most suburban schools have so that come next negotiation they have some fat to cut that won’t affect teachers.”
Please both:
1) cite data that shows that what CTU is asking for in terms of support staff out paces most suburban school districts and
2) anything that back up your cynical view of why CTU is fighting for more resources for CPS students.
- Enviro - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:43 pm:
The Chicago teachers are asking for smaller class sizes, librarians, nurses, and social workers in every school. Schools in the suburbs have these advantages.
Chicago students deserve to have the schools that will meet their needs. They deserve this just as much as suburban students.
This strike is not about teacher pay.
- consmom - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:44 pm:
At this point, I don’t even care why they are striking. I am heartbroken for those kids who are missing state tournaments - that’s a huge accomplishment to get there and perhaps a once in a lifetime thing - and for the kids who are concerned, and very rightly so, about getting college recs in on time. CTU keeps saying how much they all care about the kids, this is all about the kids …. Then get back to work. CTU can negotiate while the teachers work. Happens all the time.
- 17% Solution - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:44 pm:
“Where were you during the investigations into sexual assault at CPS by some of your members?”
I’m guessing an accused teacher would be hiring a lawyer. What do you think?
- Father Ted - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:49 pm:
CTU: We’re fighting for the students.
LL: Let’s keep schools open so kids can eat and pursue extracurriculars.
CTU: [meme]
I’m trying really hard to see things from CTU’s perspective but they’re not making it easy.
- Chris - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:51 pm:
As a CPS parent, I have truly mixed feelings here.
One thing that CPS cannot afford is to both provide the requested support staff AND keep desperately underenrolled schools open. Because a shared (Eg) nurse doesn’t work.
Also: imo, CTU is misplaying (or misreading) the response to the Mayor’s letter. She’s setting up the CTU to look bad, and they’re going along with it.
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 12:53 pm:
- Fact Check -
We are all not Google.
The reality is CTU only has the leverage of the parents and the polling until they decide that their pride and purpose finally polls poor enough for CTU to back down.
The letter, meh.
It’s only effective if the polling can sway the 49% to to 38% side.
- lake county democrat - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 1:01 pm:
Montrose - I know 9 suburban school districts personally or w/ family/friends w/ kids there (including a school nurse, who is emphatic that teacher unions never refuse to cross a picket line for support staff) 7 of which are not high schools. I know at least 4 of them share a school nurse across schools between the district and haven’t had a chance to ask the rest. Your demand cuts both ways and I suspect if CTU had some evidence they were just asking for what the suburbs we’d have seen it.
How do I know the teachers are in it for the money? Maybe when they show contempt for follow-up experimentation on the Chicago Heights “advance merit pay” study even after dramatically positive results. Maybe because I’ve seen suburban school teachers tell support staff they will cross their picket lines if THEY go on strike. Maybe because they want out of the city residency requirement (great for them, for the city notsomuch).
- Wensicia - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 1:02 pm:
I expect the Tribune will quote this letter, in its entirety, in their next editorial.
- Grandson of Man - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 1:04 pm:
Many who are angry that money would go to hire school nurses, librarians, counselors, etc., that would benefit many kids from low-income families, don’t say a peep about the trillion dollar-plus Trump tax cuts that benefit the richest the most.
Notice the deafening silence of the Tea Party types these days about exploding debt and deficit—unless the money benefits low-income communities.
- Thomas Paine - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 1:07 pm:
@Fact Check -
The fact that teachers in New York City are grossly underpaid is irrelevant. CPS is not competing with NYC to attract and retain teachers. It is competing with Oak Park, Evanston, the North Shore and DuPage County.
Those school districts have nurses, librarians and social workers in all their schools. They have smaller class sizes.
Wanting Chicago students to have what every child deserves is not greedy, it is a demand for fairness.
Wanting to get paid for the hours you put in preparing lessons and grading papers and having meetings required by law is not greedy, it is a demand for fairness.
An offer of 16% raise over five years is not “generous” either, BTW, it merely follows recommendation of independent arbitrator, which is “fair” but should not be mischaracterized. CTU wants a smaller raise over a shorter time frame, which is doable.
re: Extracurriculars. Sharkey pointed out this am that his own son is one of those student athletes who is in jeopardy of missing tournament play this week. CPS new itvwas creating this situation when they dragged their feet until the 11th hour, they own it now.
- Dybalaton - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 1:09 pm:
Grandson of Man, the problem with your argument is that the strike is Chicago specific and has little to nothing to do with Trump and his policies.
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 1:12 pm:
===I know===
Anecdotal thoughts packaged as “facts to” aren’t strong arguments.
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 1:14 pm:
Following up on my “I Know” thoughts;
=== How do I know the teachers are in it for the money? Maybe when they show contempt for follow-up experimentation on the Chicago Heights “advance merit pay” study even after dramatically positive results. Maybe because I’ve seen suburban school teachers tell support staff they will cross their picket lines if THEY go on strike. Maybe because they want out of the city residency requirement (great for them, for the city notsomuch).===
I’m confused, can you cite where CTU discusses these as you say, as a bargaining union?
- Real - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 1:17 pm:
CTU: We’re fighting for the students.
LL: Let’s keep schools open so kids can eat and pursue extracurriculars.
CTU: [meme]
I’m trying really hard to see things from CTU’s perspective but they’re not making it easy.
Lol @ you thinking twitter is the bargaining table.
- Dybalaton - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 1:19 pm:
Thomas Paine, the problem is that CPS budget is barely in the black. All the added demands of the CTU will blow the budget. The teachers would likely need to agree to a pay freeze in order to hire all the librarians and nurses.
Also, it’s annoying that Sharkey can barely find time to be at the negotiations. He’s too busy hanging out in Rosemont.
- Wensicia - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 1:36 pm:
==Those school districts have nurses, librarians and social workers in all their schools. They have smaller class sizes.==
No, not in high poverty/lower salary districts like mine.
- njt - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 1:36 pm:
https://www.ctulocal1.org/posts/chicago-academy-math-teacher-pulls-back-the-curtain-on-cps-salary-offer/
For those asking for compensation statistics.
- Grandson of Man - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 1:38 pm:
“strike is Chicago specific and has little to nothing to do with Trump and his policies”
The Trump tax cuts affect all of us. Shall we tell all non-Chicagoans to not publicly voice an opinion about CPS and CTU?
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 1:42 pm:
=== The teachers would likely need to agree to a pay freeze in order to hire all the librarians and nurses.===
You base this on… what exactly.
- Eyeball - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 1:46 pm:
Average class size: 18 for CPS, 23 for Naperville 203, 20 for IL, per Illinoisreportcard.com
- Joe Bidenopolous - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 1:46 pm:
===Shall we tell all non-Chicagoans to not publicly voice an opinion about CPS and CTU?===
As a CPS parent and CTU supporter, I would wholeheartedly endorse a ban on comments on this topic from anyone outside the city. Because y’all have no clue what you’re talking about - Tuesday is just too inconvenient for my daughter to get sick, the nurse is only there Wednesday.
- DuPage Saint - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 1:46 pm:
I don’t believe all schools in DuPage have school nurses. I know where my kids went they did not. They got rid of them years ago. They also busted janitorial unions and hire a nonunion cleaning service. Not sure of librarians they may share schools.
- Rich Miller - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 1:49 pm:
===I would wholeheartedly endorse a ban on comments on this topic from anyone outside the city===
While the strike itself is a local issue, anything that happens in the city has an enormous impact on the state. And, remember, the mayor is currently asking for state help to balance her own budget.
- Father Ted - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 1:51 pm:
“Lol @ you thinking twitter is the bargaining table.”
You must want to be taken as seriously as CTU does.
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 1:52 pm:
=== I would wholeheartedly endorse a ban on comments on this topic from anyone outside the city. Because y’all have no clue what you’re talking about .===
Your blog must be a hoot, lol
Ok, then I’ll agree even more strongly that any legislator supporting CPS’s requests should vote Red, as they are voting on things they know nothing about, lol
- consmom - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 1:53 pm:
Enviro - Not all suburban schools have those resources. Until very recently (last year or two), the Catholic grade school that my kids attended had neither a full-time nurse nor a counselor. At one point, it was maybe one day a week, then half-days for the nurse, then three days. They may now have a full-time nurse but not counselor. And the teachers get paid a fraction of what the local public school teachers get paid.
- ChiLaborGuy - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 2:04 pm:
Mayor Lightfoot has been griping about the process for days now and it makes me wonder if your lawyers did not inform her how labor bargaining usually works. There is almost always a large bargaining committee of workers that reviews all proposals. It may slow down the process as the Mayor has pointed out but it was a knowable element that should have been accounted for by the Mayor’s team. There is nothing out of the ordinary about the size of the CTU bargaining committee nor anything unusual in the way it functions. It seems to me that the main problem is that the Mayor’s team didn’t get serious about bargaining until the teachers went out on strike.
- Dybalaton - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 2:05 pm:
Grandson of Man, the Trump tax cuts did not do anything to CPS budget. Not seeing the relevance to this issue at all.
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 2:10 pm:
- Dybalaton -
You think the Trump tax cuts are helpful?
Just curious.
- From the 'Dale to HP - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 2:18 pm:
I think the problem is CTU doesn’t know what it wants. So therefore they can’t agree to a deal, even a good deal, because they’re unsure about what they want. They’re chasing dollars that aren’t there and want things that require Springfield’s approval. So here we are, everyone kind of going, “Are you done yet and you know Rahm isn’t the Mayor right?”
- Groucho - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 2:23 pm:
Issue vouchers and you won’t need to compete with Oak Park, Evanston, North Shore and DuPage County for as many teachers.
- City Zen - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 2:25 pm:
==This strike is not about teacher pay.==
It’s not? Shall CPS rescind the pay hikes then? Perhaps a 3-5 year salary freeze? I suppose that would pay for the nurses, social workers, smaller class sizes.
- spot on - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 2:28 pm:
city zen
well said- a freeze would end the strike
- Joe Bidenopolous - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 2:31 pm:
===While the strike itself is a local issue, anything that happens in the city has an enormous impact on the state. ===
It was said in jest, knowing that it has the *potential* to impact other areas of the state. My apologies for not adding /s to the end.
I’m just more than a little sick and tired of the willful ignorance and/or blatant disinformation spewed out about the strike across all forms of media. Funny, they all seem to come from the same side of the political spectrum.
- Grandson of Man - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 2:31 pm:
“Trump tax cuts did not do anything to CPS budget. Not seeing the relevance to this issue at all“
Everyone is affected by the trillion-plus dollar Trump tax cuts, and that includes everyone who says nothing in protest to those but rips CTU for trying to get more nurses, librarians and other staff that should help lower-income communities.
Not trying to justify debt, just pointing out selective outrage.
- Dybalaton - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 2:34 pm:
Grandson of Man, yet the Trump tax cuts have nothing to do with CPS budget and the CTU strike. Why do you keep bringing it up in this conversation?
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 2:35 pm:
- Dybalaton -
Do you support the Trump tax cuts?
For perspective.
- Dybalaton - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 2:39 pm:
Oswego Willie, do you get an Illinois State government pension?
This question and yours are irrelevant to CPS situation.
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 2:41 pm:
=== do you get an Illinois State government pension===
No. I don’t.
Do you support the Trump tax cuts?
- Dybalaton - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 2:53 pm:
No I don’t. Both answers furthered this discussion how?
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 2:58 pm:
=== Both answers furthered this discussion how?===
Yours was utter ignorance to seem snarky smart.
My asking pertains to the Trump Tax cuts and property taxes and the write off, and how in blue states that stipulation is hurting, and further, Illinois, including Chicago, rely on property taxes, and that lil snippet in the tax code.
So, knowing where ya stand makes me rethink that part.
W-I-L-L-Y
lol
- Three Brothers - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 3:04 pm:
Shockingly the troll makes another thread all about himself just like every other thread.
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 3:11 pm:
Narrator: that was - Three Brothers - lone comment today.
To the post,
The playing of meme cards will only exacerbate. Twitter rarely helps.
- Skeptic - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 3:12 pm:
“Shall CPS rescind the pay hikes then?” I’ll take Unfair Labor Practices for $400 please, Alex.
- Thomas Paine - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 3:32 pm:
https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2019/03/29/grissom-elementary-school-overcrowded/
Students At Overcrowded Grissom Elementary School Forced To Study On Hallway Floors; Library Doubles As Lunchroom
CHICAGO (CBS) — Packed classrooms, students studying in hallways; more than 30 Chicago Public Schools buildings are considered overcrowded, according to school district data.
At Virgil Grissom Elementary School in the southeast corner of the city, teachers have to be creative to accommodate all the students. Parents said they’ve pushed for years to relieve the overcrowding at Grissom, in the Hegewisch neighborhood.
….
Districtwide averages on the school report card are irrelevant. Teachers, parents, students have complained of overcrowding, with some classes exceeding 40 kids enrolled per class. CPS has not refuted any of i, and in fact their own numbers support the overcrowding claim.
- G'Kar - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 3:38 pm:
I wonder if the “agree to a one year deal, go back to work, and we will then negotiate additional years” is the new mantra of management. This is the exact same demand that the Board of Mendota District #289 is making during the strike by its grade school teachers. Yes, it is only 76 strikers and only 1,100 students, but it is just as important to the people of that community as the CTU strike.
I’m sure CPS and the Mendota board realize that the strength of the strike is the willingness of the teachers to stay on the picket line. If a one year agreement is signed, what incentive is there for CPS or the Mendota board to continue serious negotiations? They can once again ignore the situation for months and months and force the teachers to once again go out on strike.
It makes absolutely no sense for either union to accept a one year deal.
- Grandson of Man - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 3:42 pm:
The letter is another rookie mistake by Lightfoot. But negotiators on both sides should keep pressing ahead and try to block out the “noise.” Seeing in Twitter that more progress is being reported and hoping for a quick resolution.
- Dybalaton - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 4:02 pm:
Thanks Willy, in other words, it added nothing to the discussion. Trump’s tax cuts have nothing to do with CPS and CTU.
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 4:03 pm:
- Dybalaton -
CPS gets money from property taxes.
Keep up.
- Skeptic - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 4:11 pm:
“CPS gets money from property taxes.” Since property taxes are no longer deductible, that effectively makes them even higher. If you’re in the “we can’t raise taxes for schools because we’re already taxed to death” camp, then your buddy just made it all worse.
- Grandson of Man - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 4:26 pm:
The SALT cap repeal was meant to punish blue states like Illinois—this from the so-called party of fiscal responsibility, who’s running up massive deficits and adding to debt. Of course the Trump tax cuts are relevant. They speak to the gist of the CTU strike and give the message that we have billions of free dollars in handouts for billionaire right wing donors. It’s very relevant that some who turn a blind eye to and even rabidly support the trillion-plus dollar tax giveaway attack the CTU for demanding support staff for schools.
- City Zen - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 4:36 pm:
==Since property taxes are no longer deductible, that effectively makes them even higher==
For the typical CPS student? 3 out of every 4 students in CPS are classified as economically disadvantaged. Seems unlikely those students’ parents are maxing out their SALT deductions.
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 4:37 pm:
=== Seems unlikely those students’ parents===
Students or not in school, property taxes are still collected.
- Dybalaton - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 4:41 pm:
Grandson of Man, the Trump tax cuts have nothing to do with CPS and the CTU strike. You can continue bringing it up, but it doesn’t change that fact.
- Dybalaton - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 4:42 pm:
Grandson, are you arguing that if Trump didn’t cut federal taxes that CTU wouldn’t be striking?
- TinyDancer(FKASue) - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 5:21 pm:
==Average class size: 18 for CPS==
LOL
Maybe if you add up all the kids and divide by all classroom teachers, plus ancillary teachers, principal, assistant principal, office clerks, janitors, lunch ladies, and security officers.
- TinyDancer(FKASue) - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 5:24 pm:
==Is it true that a CPS teacher average salary is currently
$81K?
Is it true that a teachers average salary in NY city is $72K
Is it true that under the Mayor’s current proposal, a teacher with over 5 years of service will make over $100K a year?==
No,
No, and
No.
- TinyDancer(FKASue) - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 5:29 pm:
@Fact Check
Fact-Check: Are Chicago Public School Teachers Among the Nation’s Highest Paid?
No:
https://www.bettergov.org/news/fact-check-are-chicago-public-school-teachers-among-the-nation-s-highest-paid/
- JP Altgeld - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 6:21 pm:
@OW:
- Dybalaton -
CPS gets money from property taxes.
Keep up
CPS gets about 1/3 of its revenue from City of Chicago property taxes. About another third from state taxes. The final third (especially Title I and IDEA funding) from the feds.
While the Trump tax cuts had no effect on this, your statement is still not entirely correct, fwiw.
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 6:58 pm:
=== CPS gets about 1/3 of its revenue from City of Chicago property taxes.===
Here’s the rub;
Folks here complain people are leaving because of “high taxes”. If you own a home and you weren’t effected by the Trump Tax change, good for you, but both being dismissed as inconsequential in a discussion, either property taxes matter, or they don’t, and in that it includes the Trump Tax change.
If people aren’t at all concerned about CTU, or taxes, this contract…
To CTU and the strike, I keep hearing there isn’t enough money and raising property taxes…
Do property taxes matter or not?
With respect
- Dybalaton - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 7:39 pm:
JP, of course it’s correct. CPS funding was not affected by Trump’s tax cuts. Trump’s tax cuts did not reduce CPS funding. Are you also arguing that CTU would not be striking if Trump didn’t cut federal taxes?
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 7:45 pm:
=== Are you also arguing that CTU would not be striking if Trump didn’t cut federal taxes?===
Nope.
I am arguing Trump’s Tax plan is hurting CPS.
You disagree? You sure?
- Grandson of Man - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 8:41 pm:
Now it’s reported that Lightfoot’s letter hurt negotiations. She blindsided the union like she did Pritzker. She needs to learn to stop doing that.
- Dybalaton - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 9:01 pm:
Of course Trump’s tax cuts didn’t hurt CPS. Federal funds to CPS weren’t cut.
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 9:06 pm:
=== Trump’s tax cuts didn’t hurt CPS===
I am arguing Trump’s Tax plan is hurting CPS.
You disagree? You sure?
At a cost of not writing off those taxes, people complain about the taxes, and yet the property tax part isn’t hurting CPS?
Hmm.
- Dybalaton - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 9:18 pm:
People complained about real estate taxes before Trump’s tax plan. Rahm raised real estate taxes for both CPS and the City during his terms in office. People complained about taxes under Daley too. Trump has absolutely nothing to do with CTU striking. CPS has not experienced a decrease in Federal funding. Are you claiming that CTU would not strike if there was no tax cut?
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Oct 21, 19 @ 9:21 pm:
=== Trump has absolutely nothing to do with CTU striking.===
I never typed that. Why do you think I typed that, LOL
=== CPS has not experienced a decrease in Federal funding.===
Keep up, the property tax exodus, lol,
===Are you claiming that CTU would not strike if there was no tax cut?===
Can you read or not? Third time, that’s not the argument.
CPS is being hurt by the property tax portion that can’t be written off.