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Southern Illinois mother pulls her son out of public school after LGBTQ history lesson

Thursday, Feb 13, 2020

* WFIL

A Williamson County mother has removed her son from school after learning he was being taught LGBTQ (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer) history before the new law takes effect.

Shelly Murphy says she removed her son, Eli, from school after learning he was being taught LGBTQ history before HB 02-46, which mandates LGBTQ history be taught in Illinois schools, takes effect.

“I do not support the idea of LGBTQ being taught to my son at all. However, when I learned that it is being taught ahead of time, I was dumbfounded,” Murphy said over the phone. […]

“I support the first amendment. I just don’t think Greek mythology, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, LGBTQ, and politics should be taught in public schools. It is ridiculous what our country is coming to,” Murphy said.

As I recall, some Greek mythology history was taught in my school back in the day, as was “politics.”

* HB246 takes effect this July 1

Provides that in public schools only, the teaching of history of the United States shall include a study of the roles and contributions of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people in the history of this country and this State.

- Posted by Rich Miller        

62 Comments
  1. - efudd - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 9:33 am:

    One of the examples of how southern Illinois has become as red as Alabama.


  2. - lakeside - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 9:36 am:

    What a fascinating melange of complaints. Good luck in homeschool, Eli.


  3. - Wensicia - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 9:36 am:

    The history of various religions was/is taught as well.


  4. - define irony - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 9:36 am:

    stop being triggered, snowflake


  5. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 9:40 am:

    What’s comically sad and quite pathetic in this 21st century is this is a parental fail in so far as ignoring the world in which their family lives, and sheltering them from what an actual society is… is no different than denying truth to your children.

    “He that troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind: and the fool shall be servant to the wise in heart.”

    - Proverbs 11:29


  6. - HelpUd - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 9:41 am:

    How dare we teach history or have an understanding of other religions


  7. - Ron Burgundy - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 9:42 am:

    -Good luck in homeschool, Eli.-

    Good luck period, kid.


  8. - Bertrum Cates - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 9:43 am:

    = Greek mythology, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, LGBTQ, and politics =

    These are the cultures and values Chicago should not be forcing on everyone else, right, Rep. Bailey?


  9. - Jocko - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 9:43 am:

    As Jeanne Ives would say “The homo-activists are at it again.”


  10. - Moe Berg - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 9:47 am:

    If she herself had learned more about the Greeks and “politics” she might better understand how policy decisions are made in a democratic republic.

    But, it’s her right to not have her child attend public schools.

    And, it’s her right to embrace know-nothingness, reject learning about the complex, modern world, and wish the dominance of 1950s white, Christian, heterosexual, and partriarchal Americans might return. There’s a whole political party that supports such an agenda, in fact.

    I do feel sorry for Eli. He doesn’t get to choose.


  11. - lakeside - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 9:59 am:

    To give Shelly her due, she also doesn’t want Christianity taught in schools, so this doesn’t seem like the… usual suspects in terms of worldview.

    Zoroastrianism or bust?

    This is all kind of weird and amusing, but feel like maybe this isn’t the best test case for “I can’t believe they’re teaching about *the gays* in schools.” She seems like she’s got some other stuff going on.


  12. - don the legend - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 9:59 am:

    This Williamson County mother must have not studied her generation’s history either. Because apparently she missed hearing about FDR’s famous quote, “The only thing we have to fear is fear itself,”


  13. - Cubs in '16 - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 10:07 am:

    As the parent of a school-age child, I don’t have a problem with those things being taught. I do take issue when the teacher(s) go on to pick a side on whatever issue is being discussed and suggest to the students it’s wrong to believe differently. It has happened more than once to all three of my kids during their public school experiences.


  14. - h'okay - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 10:13 am:

    lol, I feel like somewhere Willa Cather, James Baldwin, Oscar Wilde, and Truman Capote are having good long laugh, whilst sipping martinis


  15. - Montrose - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 10:19 am:

    I agree with Lakeside. I don’t know if we can point to this case and say there is and out and out rebellion in southern IL against the new LGBTQ requirements. Here’s hoping this case is just an ice cube and not the tip of the iceberg.


  16. - Cheryl44 - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 10:21 am:

    Well, there’s a whole lot of debate about which Christianity is the only right one.


  17. - Steve - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 10:24 am:

    Shelly Murphy has every right to decide what her child is being taught. Some people view America as a Christian nation. Some do not. Government schools aren’t for everyone. Some people take the U.S. Supreme Court case of Holy Trinity Church vs. United States, 143 U. S. 471 pretty seriously. After all, it was a unanimous opinion. When you can get everyone on the U.S. Supreme Court to call America a Christian nation some people take that to heart.


  18. - Da Big Bad Wolf - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 10:24 am:

    All kinds of acts of homicide occur in history. Sexual behavior or religious beliefs are mild by comparison.


  19. - njt - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 10:34 am:

    ===Holy Trinity Church vs. United States, 143 U. S. 471===

    HB 246 seems like a great idea to help folks educate themselves if they’re using a >100 year old decision to support their homophobia


  20. - Ron Burgundy - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 10:36 am:

    –HB 246 seems like a great idea to help folks educate themselves if they’re using a >100 year old decision to support their homophobia–

    128 years old, by many of the same justices who gave us Plessy v Ferguson. Also see the definition of obiter dictum.


  21. - 47th Ward - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 10:37 am:

    ===When you can get everyone on the U.S. Supreme Court to call America a Christian nation===

    One Justice said that. One. Sort of like corporate person hood if you ask me, but you be you and hang your whole argument on one guy’s opinion in 1892.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_Holy_Trinity_v._United_States


  22. - Huh? - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 10:48 am:

    Hope she stops using her smart phone and computer. Because without the breakthroughs made by Alan Turing, the computer wouldn’t have been possible.

    Who is Alan Turning? Just a British gay man who broke the Enigma codes during WW2 using a rudimentary hand built computer.


  23. - Interim Retiree - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 11:05 am:

    I believe that ALL students should be treated as we want ourselves to be treated, including LGBTQ kids. I guess that’s anti-Christian these days?
    When I taught Government classes, I would put a list of issues up for students to look at & decide for themselves where they stood, just telling them what MIGHT be considered liberal or conservative, Republican or Democrat sides. Never told them what to think, but great discussions. I would always get a parent complaining that I was indoctrinating their 17-18 year old child into being a (sigh) … a Republican or a Democrat.


  24. - dbk - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 11:10 am:

    –I support the first amendment. I just don’t think Greek mythology, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, LGBTQ, and politics should be taught in public schools.–

    Somewhere between Sentence 1 and Sentence 2 I’m sensing a some cognitive dissonance.

    What the lady is decrying would largely eliminate the teaching of history, or at least eviscerate much of history of its ideological underpinnings and belief structures.

    Uh,what’s up with that?


  25. - Demoralized - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 11:12 am:

    ==It is ridiculous what our country is coming to,==

    I agree. And she is a perfect example of the ridiculousness.


  26. - Glengarry - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 11:13 am:

    Eli, good luck to you kid. You’re gonna need it with a mom like that.


  27. - ajjacksson - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 11:17 am:

    I think accomplishments in history should be celebrated, period. What difference does race, gender, or sexual orientation make?

    The guy from South Bend–is he the best candidate for President, or not? Isn’t that the real question?

    Call me hopelessly idealistic if you want….


  28. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 11:23 am:

    === What difference does race, gender, or sexual orientation make?===

    Since we fought a civil war based on one race in slavery while another race held them as slaves…

    … or that civil rights in one state seemed to differ from another state, due to race, religion, orientation….

    … or that hatred for differences in society makes those different scared to be themselves in fear of any and all types of retribution or harm…

    … ya think not pointing out that differences exist, but are combined humanity makes us a better country?

    Differences are pointed out to cause those bigoted to think, and those being oppressed to know they are not alone and will succeed too.

    Being “blind” to differences *can* be as bigoted as actual bigotry.


  29. - Maryjane - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 11:57 am:

    I believe Ms Murphy is nothing short of an exemplar of why lgbt issues need to be taught. She is yet again another atavistic fool afraid of something hidden within herself whilst announcing to all those fears she has concealed. And she’s ultimately helping the cause of those she opposes and that makes me smile, because I am one of those lgbt people (who haunt her every thought) who lived through Prop 8 in California; we do not forget.


  30. - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 12:05 pm:

    This shows why LGBTQ history is important to teach, because many think LGBTQ is like a religion, or something taught. It is also so relevant, because of the recent SCOTUS marriage victory and adoption discrimination, like just happened in Tennessee (a state anti-tax, anti-union people hold up as superior and a model for Illinois).


  31. - ILLannoyed - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 12:12 pm:

    I thought all of these “groups” have contributed to the idea of western civilization as a whole. Hmm it’s as if history and the future aren’t allwhite and cis. Trigger warning needed to live in 21st America apparently


  32. - ike - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 12:33 pm:

    Huh? - good example. We also lost a brillant mind in Alan Turning because he committed suicide because of Britain’s harsh anti-gay laws that made homosexuality a criminal offence, punishable with imprisonment or forced chemical castration. (Watch the movie The Imitation Game to learn more)


  33. - Nick Name - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 12:38 pm:

    ===I just don’t think Greek mythology, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, LGBTQ, and politics should be taught in public schools===

    Neglect of the humanities is one of the things that got us Trump.

    Oh wait, now I see your logic…


  34. - Ron Burgundy - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 12:46 pm:

    Teaching children about these issues is important. It’s important for the whole class to receive the message that even though people are different in many ways, we all contribute to society. And the message is especially important for the particular kids in the class who may identify closely with these historical figures to know they are not weird, not outcasts, and most importantly not alone.


  35. - OpentoDiscusssion - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 12:50 pm:

    So exactly what is in the curriculum that will be taught?

    Need more details as to how this will be presented.


  36. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 12:57 pm:

    === So exactly what is in the curriculum that will be taught?

    Need more details as to how this will be presented.===

    LOL… “so exactly” what’s going to deemed by you as unacceptable…

    I’m curious to your hand wringing here


  37. - Last Bull Moose - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 1:18 pm:

    I am curious as to what will be taught and how. History has examples of LGBT people with behaviors that we may praise or condemn. Julius Caesar was bisexual. He was a great military leader who committed genocide against the Germans and turned a Republic into an Empire. Do we judge him by the standards of his time or ours?
    Our culture now generally accepts homosexuality. What about cultures where homosexual behavior is punishable by death? How do we teach about that?


  38. - @misterjayem - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 1:22 pm:

    Holy Trinity Church vs. United States, 143 U. S. 471

    Yes. In 1892, one justice, Justice David Josiah Brewer, said “this is a Christian nation.”

    But what did he mean by that?

    Fortunately, we can find some guidance from the Brewer’s short book, titled “The United States: A Christian Nation” (1905), in which he asked the relevant question:

    But in what sense can [the United States] be called a Christian nation? Not in the sense that Christianity is the established religion or that people are in any matter compelled to support it. On the contrary, the Constitution specifically provides that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” Neither is it Christian in the sense that all of its citizens are either in fact or name Christian. On the contrary, all religions have free scope within our borders. Numbers of our people profess other religions, and many reject all. Nor is it Christian in the sense that a profession of Christianity is a condition of holding office or otherwise engaging in public service, or essential to recognition either politically or socially. In fact, the government as a legal organization is independent of all religions.

    Brewer than went on to explain that the United States is “Christian” in the sense that, at the turn of the last century, many of its people belonged to Christian denominations and that many of the country’s customs and traditions have roots in Christianity.

    Brewer’s is a run-of-the-mill view that not only isn’t theologically or politically significant, it isn’t even interesting.

    In light of his clarification, Brewer’s statement that “this is a Christian nation” is a classic example of obiter dictum. (It’s certainly been treated as such by the Supreme Court ever since — including by Brewer himself in L’Hote v. New Orleans (1900).)

    But it is also a timely reminder that sometimes one must take Supreme Court rulings to mind as well as to heart.

    – MrJM


  39. - Hal - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 1:36 pm:

    If someone does something that is historically significant, it should be taught in schools. But why should it be taught simply because that person was LGBTQ?


  40. - Da Big Bad Wolf - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 1:52 pm:

    == What about cultures where homosexual behavior is punishable by death? How do we teach about that?==
    Simple. If it’s history we teach it.

    History isn’t about nice people having nice events with nice outcomes. It’s usually pretty brutal.


  41. - JS Mill - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 3:29 pm:

    Curriculum? The star does not prescribe curriculum for schools in Illinois aside from drivers education. That is a local decision.

    So, what will be taught with regard to LGBTQ history or historical figures will be decided locally. That should be a lot of fun.

    Public schools (not government schools) in Illinois are presented with new required subjects for instruction by the legislature on an annual basis. The school day and year isn’t longer but the list or requires topics has grown consistently. Not that any of these legislators knows thing one about instruction much less running a school or district.

    The variation between districts will be broad. Some schools will likely develop an elective course on the subject while others will barely utter the term LGBTQ. And, other than an annual report that we submit to the ROE, no one will check.

    So the crazy mom from the post is overreacting, but school isn’t for everyone. As Judge Smails said, “the world needs ditch diggers too”.


  42. - OpentoDiscusssion - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 3:32 pm:

    @Oswego Willy

    LOL… “so exactly” what’s going to deemed by you as unacceptable…

    Not certain what you find that is so funny. To answer your question, I as the parent would decide what is acceptable.

    Don’t like that? I could care less.


  43. - Ron Burgundy - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 3:41 pm:

    -To answer your question, I as the parent would decide what is acceptable.-

    Actually the school district and authorities decide what is acceptable. You as a parent then get to decide what to do with that information.


  44. - Demoralized - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 3:48 pm:

    ==I as the parent would decide what is acceptable.==

    Do you decide that for every subject that is taught to your littly Jenny or Johnny or just on this?

    You aren’t doing your children any favors by “protecting” them. You’re doing the opposite. You’re harming them.


  45. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 3:55 pm:

    === Not certain what you find that is so funny.===

    Its quite comical to the rationale;

    You wanna “see” to deem, but you can’t come up with a criteria you object to teaching?

    Huh?

    But…

    === I as the parent would decide what is acceptable.

    Don’t like that? I could care less===

    Can ya put that in a lesson plan format for me?

    You want to decide what “offends” you, not what is historically accurate. That’s what your answers says.

    With respect.


  46. - OpentoDiscusssion - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 4:18 pm:

    @Oswego Willy

    Why don’t you put your lesson plan format forward on this subject? I will review it.

    “Historically accurate.”? Give me a break.

    But I will go back to my original statement. What is the “lesson plan” being discussed?
    Do you have a problem with that being put forward? Obviously so. Some of us question rather than just act as a bobble head. Again, if you can’t handle that, I could care less.


  47. - Last Bull Moose - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 4:20 pm:

    Accurate histories can be presented in different ways. The facts of the Crusades look different to a Muslim in Gaza than to a Christian in London.


  48. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 4:22 pm:

    === “Historically accurate.”? Give me a break.===

    If someone identifies as LGBTQ… they do.

    Your criteria, like you told me, is if you’re offended. You don’t care what my thought is to your offense.

    === Some of us ===

    Speak for yourself, please. Thank you.

    === What is the “lesson plan” being discussed?===

    “If it offends me, it’s bad”

    That’s not a position, it’s dictating values and mores on others, and if I don’t like your demand, too bad.

    Friend, stop digging.


  49. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 4:25 pm:

    === The facts of the Crusades look different to a Muslim in Gaza than to a Christian in London.===

    With respect,

    A historical context should and would include this, how both sides saw the crusades.

    “Alternate facts” seemingly choose any one side and make that “truth” absolute to refute context or reality.

    Again, if one, for example, identifies as LGBTQ, how is that bad to teach students?


  50. - Charlie Brown - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 4:31 pm:

    @Last Bull Moose -

    I am not sure how or why Julius Ceasar’s sexual behavior would come up in a history lesson, unless it was a discussion on the sexual culture and practices of ancient Rome as a whole.

    “Homosexual” was not a term that existed prior to the mid-1800’s and Romans defined gender based not on your birth sex but rather whether you were active/dominant (masculine) or passive/submissive (feminine).

    Ceasar’s sexual behavior was the norm of his time, and also had nothing to do with his romantic behavior or his military or political leadership.


  51. - OpentoDiscusssion - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 4:46 pm:

    @Osewgo Willy

    First, I am NOT your friend.

    And the only one digging a hole for themselves is you.

    I am only asking a this point for a review of such a curriculum before I can make an intelligent comment about this matter and, in addition, making a decision as to whether I would want MY child in that class. It is my understanding that present sex education law allows for a parent to withdraw their child from such instruction. If this has been changed and now all students must attend then I am not aware of this.

    If that parental right still remains that it should also be extended to this new law. Got a problem with that?


  52. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 4:58 pm:

    === First, I am NOT your friend===

    Welp, with that attitude we won’t be friends…

    === I am only asking a this point for a review of such a curriculum before I can make an intelligent comment about this matter and, in addition, making a decision as to whether I would want MY child in that class. ===

    Historically accurate or not, if it offends me, I don’t want it taught.

    What’s gonna offend you?

    === Got a problem with that?===

    Friend, Proverbs 11:29


  53. - OpentoDiscusssion - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 5:02 pm:

    @Oswego Willy

    What made you think that we would ever be friends? I have never even met you.

    You comment is so typically silly. Just like you LOL comment on soemthing that has nothing to do with humor.


  54. - Jocko - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 5:02 pm:

    Anyone else see the irony in the poster calling himself OpentoDiscusssion?

    I’m with you if you’re expressing outrage about unfunded mandates. To pull your child from public school for discussing LGBTQ in history class (or any class) is a bridge too far


  55. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 5:04 pm:

    === What made you think that we would ever be friends? I have never even met you.===

    Whew. Wow. Whew.

    === You comment is so typically silly. Just like you LOL comment on soemthing that has nothing to do with humor.===

    Translation: yeah, i can’t refute your logic, I’ll go after you.

    Be well. Good luck with an open to discussion moment


  56. - MyTwoCents - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 5:11 pm:

    LGBTQ history is certainly relevant today. Think about how much LGBTQ rights are discussed in everyday life now, marriage, adoption rights, bathroom access, etc. Understanding how those rights struggles have come to forefront of American life is important for being well-informed citizens, just like learning about any other topic in American history that has shaped our culture.


  57. - All This - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 5:17 pm:

    “ in addition, making a decision as to whether I would want MY child in that class.”
    Of course you have the right to do what you want but this helicopter parenting is really bad for your kid. Let her fall off her bike, get disappointed, flunk a test, find out about gays.
    She’s going to find out about gays anyways, from her friends if not from you.


  58. - JS Mill - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 6:41 pm:

    =I as the parent would decide what is acceptable.=

    Well, you can pull your kid out of school. Or they can do an alternative assignment, just not in this case since it is a state mandate. So your option is pulling them out of school.

    The Board of Ed approves the curriculum. If you want input get off the couch and run for the Board of ed. I hoe you don’t, you clearly have issues with the truth.

    BTW- In the land of Lincoln just after Lincoln’s bday, their is some evidence that puts into question Lincoln’s sexuality.


  59. - @misterjayem - Thursday, Feb 13, 20 @ 10:27 pm:

    “I as the parent would decide what is acceptable.”

    “Well, the world needs ditch diggers, too.”
    – Judge Smails


  60. - Da Big Bad Wolf - Friday, Feb 14, 20 @ 8:29 am:

    === I am not sure how or why Julius Ceasar’s sexual behavior would come up in a history lesson, unless it was a discussion on the sexual culture and practices of ancient Rome as a whole.===
    Or because he was a significant person in history. Why wouldn’t his personal life be discussed? A person’s relationships isn’t non-historical.


  61. - Candy Dogood - Friday, Feb 14, 20 @ 8:56 am:

    ===I do not support the idea of LGBTQ being taught to my son at all. ===

    You can tell this is a blanket sentiment of bigotry and nothing else because this sentence doesn’t make any grammatical sense. Especially if you break down the acronym.

    I think it might do well for Illinois to lean into the unusually close relationship that Abe Lincoln enjoyed with Joshua Fry Speed in these classes to help Ms. Murphy understand that ignorance does not erase the impact that people have had throughout history.

    I think it is important that we teach to our next generation that not very long ago our grandparents or great grandparents signed off on horrific things and that paying them no mind is how we become complicit in those terrible things.

    Mass murder and genocide are topics are squeemy topics too, but those need to be discussed. The fact that many of our ancestors, and some of our current friends and neighbors advocated for and attempted to advance human bondage — complete with the lawfulness of torturing, raping, and murdering other people simply because of the color of their skin need to be discussed.

    Ms. Murphy pretends to evoke some sense of moral outrage while intentionally or unintentionally preserving the cycle which leads to the horrific crimes against humanity that have persisted in our society.

    While she may not think she is paving a path to hell, she is certainly helping pave the path to a return to a not very distant past when our friends, neighbors, brothers, sisters, and fellow country people were denied their rights by people just like Ms. Murphy.

    I hope for her sake one day she will wake up and realize she is the worst. But till then I am certain the worst parts of our society will appeal to her “concerns” in order to bolster the constant threat they pose to all of us.

    We need to stop pretending this element of our society went away. We need to stop pretending these elements weren’t there.

    I’ve always thought a decent litmus test for our society would be when there is near universal agreement that if someone raped a person kept in bondage that they probably didn’t go to heaven.


  62. - Candy Dogood - Friday, Feb 14, 20 @ 9:16 am:

    ===Ceasar’s sexual behavior was the norm of his time, and also had nothing to do with his romantic behavior or his military or political leadership.===

    For starters — if we’re teaching kids history it’s pretty important to teach them that for thousands of years of human history that same sex relationships were not only permitted, but encourage, expected, and commanded by ritual and superstition.

    Imagine — Just imagine — what would happen to all of those folks hero worshiping the Spartans if they were forced to recognize that their heroes were a bunch of adult men that lived almost exclusively with adult men until late in their life that were encouraged to have relationships with teenaged boys several decades their junior while gallivanting around naked and celebrating their athleticism, being known for both fabulous hair and incredibly poor tactical decisions.

    Only to have their hegemony crushed by the Thebans — who deployed their own elite unit called the Sacred Band which was 150 pairs of male lovers.

    Imagine what a society we’d have if these toxic men had to recognize that they’re worshiping a culture were men weren’t afraid to love each other.

    “Come and take them” indeed.

    In terms of the actual relevance of Caesar’s relationships with other people — you don’t think Caesar’s relationships with other people are relevant to his contribution of history?

    Yikes.

    At the very least there should be a discussion of the fact that Caesar was kidnapped, probably raped by pirates, held for ransom, convinced the pirates to release him, and then returned with a sizeable force a had them all killed.

    Julius Caesar — Counsel — Dictator — Trauma Victim.

    Regardless, it’s neat when conservatives think sexual behavior is relevant.

    Denny Hassert was a pedophile — Relevant? No.

    Newt Gingrich was banging his staffers while married and overseeing Clinton’s impeachment — Relevant? No.

    Jim Jordan aided a sexual predator preying on athletes he was responsible for coaching — Relevant? No.

    Donald Trump has confessed and bragged about sexually assaulting numerous people — Relevant? No.

    Donald Trump boasted about walking through changing rooms filled with underage women to get a peek — Relevant? No.

    Julius Caesar didn’t mind the company of men — Relevant? No.

    Alexander the Great definitely didn’t mind the company of men — Relevant? No.

    Abe Lincoln had a complicated relationship with at least one guy — Relevant? No.

    This list can go on.

    But.

    Bill Clinton lies under oath about receiving oral sex — Relevant? Heck yes! So relevant it gets brought up in every Facebook threat about politics.

    What a fantasy these loons believe, if only we lived in a world where these loons didn’t pose a constant threat to us because of their inability to recognize when they are signing on to a dictatorship because uh, “LGBTQ is being taught.”


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