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Today’s quotable

Friday, Feb 21, 2020

* Setup

Illinois’ [red flag law] works like this: A family or household member can bring a complaint to a local court, alleging that a person has threatened to use his or her firearm illegally. If the court is convinced of a potential danger, it orders the person to appear in court and their weapons to be seized by the state, generally for six months up to a year, when the weapons then must be returned to the owner.

A person’s Firearm Owner’s Identification (FOID) card can also be revoked in Illinois, if they threaten or commit serious physical violence. In fact, there’s a mandatory-reporting requirement for law enforcement officials, school administrators, and physicians, who must make a report to authorities, within 24 hours of learning of any kind of threat.

Illinois’ law can also be used to keep firearms away from someone who does not yet possess them

* Mary Miller, Republican candidate in the 15th Congressional District

I oppose red flag laws, or any laws that take away our God-given constitutional rights without due process. When my children were growing up, we read several biographies of people that lived in Nazi Germany or communist Russia. And they were controlled by fear. And one of the things the government did is they set up a system where the citizens could tattle on each other. And I’m highly opposed to anything that would promote that.

So, Crime Stoppers is bad?

- Posted by Rich Miller        

35 Comments
  1. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:10 pm:

    === And they were controlled by fear. And one of the things the government did is they set up a system where the citizens could tattle on each other. And I’m highly opposed to anything that would promote that.===

    Ms. Miller,

    Do you believe in “see something, say something” when it comes to national security?

    Thanks.


  2. - So_Ill - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:11 pm:

    The fact that someone this crazy can win elected office in Illinois (or anywhere) is really scary and sad.


  3. - MSIX - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:12 pm:

    Yeah, those blasted tattling whistle blowers. Can’t have them running around ruining the game. And where in the Bible does God give us our Constitutional rights? I must have missed that part.


  4. - JS Mill - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:14 pm:

    =I oppose red flag laws, or any laws that take away our God-given constitutional rights without due process. =

    Whelp, the USSC disagrees with you and has for decades. Many of our “god-given rights” are limited by the court (and common sense). For instance, the patriot act allows surveillance without probable cause, same with DUI “safety checks” and the list goes on.

    =And they were controlled by fear=

    Says the fear monger…..


  5. - 47th Ward - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:16 pm:

    Which biographies, I wonder?

    The Diary of Anne Frank? The Gulag Archipelago?


  6. - Anon E Moose - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:18 pm:

    One person’s “tattler” is another person’s “whistleblower.”


  7. - Skeptic - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:18 pm:

    She hit all the right wingnut high points: God, Guns and Family.


  8. - Fixer - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:19 pm:

    I wonder if she’s spoken to Darren Bailey about HB 5415? I thought her party believed there shouldn’t be any limitations on purchasing firearms. If someone gets TANF though, their right to the second amendment should be limited?


  9. - Bigtwich - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:21 pm:

    When I was growing up I read several biographies of people that lived in Southern Illinois, Carl Shelton, Charlie Birger. And they were controlled by fear. And one of the things the government did is they set up a system where the citizens could tattle on people who drove down the street firing machine guns. And I’m highly in favor to anything that would promote that. As Charlie said, “It truly is a beautiful world.”


  10. - DuPage Saint - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:21 pm:

    If there is a complaint filed there is a judicial ruling so I would suggest that is due process. I am unclear if once you are ordered to court to turn your weapon in if you have a right to argue your case then. And there must be some right of appeal so I would think you have constitutional protections


  11. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:21 pm:

    From Ms. Miller’s “issues” page;

    === It is time to get serious about border security. Mary Miller OPPOSES sanctuary cities and she SUPPORTS building a wall on our southern border and she SUPPORTS the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency.===

    Does Ms. Miller support unannounced raids to round up “illegals”, and how should ICE get that information from, let’s say, the public, or public entities?


  12. - Norseman - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:22 pm:

    Mary, god-given? I must’ve missed that commandment in my confirmation class. I did note that there was one about not killing. Red flag laws help prevent murders as proscribed by that commandment. Also, the party that is now going nuts trying to coverup the intelligence community’s finding that Russia is still giving Trump a helping hand.

    It would be laughable if not so absurd and dangerous to our democracy when a GOP pol attempts to use false analogies of Russia and Nazi Germany. That party has embraced hatred and fear to justify whatever action is necessary to maintain power.


  13. - Huh? - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:24 pm:

    “I oppose red flag laws, or any laws that take away our God-given constitutional rights without due process.”

    She better not vacation in or retire to Florida. The Baker Act is a real lulu. People can be involuntarily committed to a mental hospital if a qualified professional thinks the person is a danger to themselves or others. Nearly happened to my dad.


  14. - Donnie Elgin - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:26 pm:

    Ex parte hearing is the problem. No notice hearing where the “dangerous” individual is not required to be present to defend themselves from the FOID /weapon revocation. There is a provision for criminalizing a false report - but still very weak Due process.


  15. - Pundent - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:27 pm:

    That’s some pretty interesting reading going on in the Miller household.

    I’d be interested in knowing what her definition of due process is since she doesn’t seem to acknowledge the current role of the court system in any of this.


  16. - Demoralized - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:32 pm:

    First of all, I’ve looked in the Bible and I’ve not seen anywhere in it where God guaranteed me the right to have a gun. I believe that right is located in the Constitution.

    Second, a court is adjudicting this.

    Third, you’ve lost the argument when you go down the road of this being anything like Nazi Germany or communism. You’ve now entered the “loon” category.

    I wonder what she would suggest we do in circumstances where someone is proved to be a danger to themselves or others? It seems her answer is “Sorry, God says I can have a gun.”


  17. - miso - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:33 pm:

    Ex parte hearing is the problem. No notice hearing where the “dangerous” individual is not required to be present to defend themselves from the FOID /weapon revocation. There is a provision for criminalizing a false report - but still very weak Due process.

    Only for the two week emergency order, chum. The plenary (multi month order) requires the respondent to be present. Just like DV and stalking orders.


  18. - Cheryl44 - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:35 pm:

    My God disagrees with hers.


  19. - Just Me 2 - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:41 pm:

    God did not give the right to own a gun. Someone is confusing bible study with 5th-grade civics class.


  20. - Jocko - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:41 pm:

    Using her logic, I guess the only way to stop a ‘bad’ family member with a gun should be a ‘good’ family member with a gun.

    Should we do twenty paces or a staredown at high noon?


  21. - Nagidam - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:42 pm:

    The penalty for filing a false complaint for a restraining order is not weak: Class 3 Felony

    (c) Every person who files a petition for an emergency firearms restraining order, knowing the information provided to the court at any hearing or in the affidavit or verified pleading to be false, is guilty of perjury under Section 32-2 of the Criminal Code of 2012.


  22. - FormerParatrooper - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:43 pm:

    Ms. Miller, please don’t argue against red flag laws, you are damaging a legitimate argument against them.


  23. - CharlieKratos - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:43 pm:

    I had to turn in my FOID card years ago because my ex-wife filed a false order of protection on me (no guns to turn in). After hearing the case, the judge estopped her filing again and it was thrown out, but I still haven’t been able to get my FOID card again. By now, it’s expired, but I can’t get a new one either. So there’s that.


  24. - Donnie Elgin - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:49 pm:

    ” knowing the information provided to the court at any hearing or in the affidavit or verified pleading to be false”

    Here is the weakness in the supposed protection against false claims. Disgruntled ex -spouse says ex-husband is crazy - judge takes guns/ FOID - later found to be fine. His rights have been denied and his property seized and the wife isn’t subject to penalty because how can you prove her claim was false.


  25. - Nagidam - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:50 pm:

    The ex parte orders are for immediate danger. And in the court proceeding you have to bring evidence to prove such. This immediate danger can be against someone else or immediate danger to themselves. Think Suicide. The last thing you want to do is push a suicidal person over the edge before you force them to get ride of their guns.


  26. - OpentoDiscusssion - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:52 pm:

    Obviously pandering to the far right of the anti- gun control people.

    On the other side is HB5170 which panders to the left who want de facto confiscation of virtually all guns:

    Synopsis As Introduced
    Amends the Illinois Insurance Code. Prohibits surplus line insurance producers from procuring and domestic surplus line insurers from insuring the risk of legal fees, costs, or expenses related to an investigation, indictment, or prosecution of any criminal charge arising out of the use of a firearm. Amends the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act. Provides that an applicant for a Firearm Owner’s Identification Card or for renewal of that Card must submit to the Illinois State Police that he or she has proof of liability insurance coverage of at least $1,000,000 for accidental injuries caused by a firearm. Provides that the Illinois State Police may require annual proof of the person’s liability insurance coverage and may suspend a person’s Firearm Owner’s Identification Card for failure to maintain that coverage or for failure to provide the Illinois State Police with proof of that coverage. Provides that the proof of liability insurance coverage required under these provisions is required for both an initial application for a Firearm Owner’s Identification Card and for renewal of that Card.


  27. - West Side the Best Side - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:52 pm:

    Apparently in her family snitches get stiches. However, I do agree about the wall on the southern border. I’m thinking I 80, but could be talked into south of Springfield.


  28. - Ducky LaMoore - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:52 pm:

    So if a family member is threatened, too bad. But if a gun owner makes threats, there should be no recourse. Nihilist drivel. Say what you will about the tenants of national socialism, dude, at least it’s an ethos.


  29. - Nagidam - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 2:53 pm:

    ===Disgruntled ex -spouse says ex-husband is crazy - judge takes guns/ FOID - later found to be fine.===

    In the proceeding the complainant will have to have supporting information that the person is “Crazy”. Saying they are crazy isn’t the burden of proof needed. The complainant would have to bring specific information regarding immediate danger to themselves or others. If not then the ex parte order would not be issued.


  30. - don the legend - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 3:22 pm:

    No wonder she’s against red flag laws. She is a prime candidate to be subject to them since they are intended to keep mentally unstable people from harming themselves or others.


  31. - TheInvisibleMan - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 4:02 pm:

    ==No wonder she’s against red flag laws.==

    Almost without fail(about 85-90% of the time) when I hear someone opposing any firearm restrictions, it’s because they have a DUI charge with injuries, a DV conviction, or other mental condition that would classify them in the ‘restricted’ category.

    They never admit this, of course. The opposition always focuses on ‘the constitution’ and their ‘god-given rights’.


  32. - Thomas Paine - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 4:05 pm:

    === they were controlled by fear ===

    Ha-ha, I bet she is for Trump’s wall.

    If someone threatens to shoot their spouse or shoot up a school, I want them to face the very real possibility their AR-15 is going to be taken from them. And if that separation anxiety causes them to be afraid, it’s probably a good thing they are being relieved of their rifle.


  33. - revvedup - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 4:11 pm:

    Due process is normally required BEFORE confiscation of a citizen’s property (called “pre-deprivation hearings”, with notice). Red flag laws place potentially innocent people at risk for losing their propertys BEFORE due process, which SCOTUS has frowned on repeatedly). Furthermore, such filings place the innocent in line for legal fees, court costs, time lost from work, etc. BEFORE having to prove their fitness (retaining expert witnesses, etc.). The “remedy” against false filings doesn’t begin to address the harms caused to the innocent.


  34. - 47th Ward - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 4:17 pm:

    ===uch filings place the innocent in line for legal fees, court costs, time lost from work, etc. BEFORE having to prove their fitness===

    I suppose we could just wait until AFTER a suspected mentally unstable person shoots somebody.


  35. - Dozer - Friday, Feb 21, 20 @ 4:19 pm:

    tattle, really? grow up


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