The consequences of reopening too soon
Tuesday, May 5, 2020 - Posted by Rich Miller
* WSIL TV…
West Frankfort business owners now have the option of re-opening stores and restaurants. Mayor Tom Jordan says city officials will not fine businesses if they decide to reopen. […]
West Frankfort businesses will have to continue following safety measures, such as social distancing, hand washing, and wearing a facial covering or mask.
Mayor Jordan says several businesses have told him that, although they welcome the choice to reopen, they’re nervous about going through with it.
“The governor has some authority. I mean, the beauty shops are worried about their licenses. The liquor stores are worried they’ll be fined and have their liquor licenses taken.”
As we discussed yesterday, all state licensed businesses better think twice about this.
Also, how do you cut someone’s hair from six feet away?
* The governor talked yesterday about businesses that reopen in defiance of the EO….
Well, I was a businessman before I became governor, and I have to tell you that I would not want to defy the executive order because I believe that I would be taking on liability if I did that. […]
It would not surprise me if insurance companies are found to not be required to cover you when you are defying essentially state law or state executive order.
And, remember, the executive order derives from state law.
* The businesses also need to think about local public health enforcement. I called the Franklin-Williamson Bi-County Health Department today and asked them what they were going to do…
We’ve put in a call to the Illinois Department of Public Health about what they want us to do as far as enforcement and we’re just waiting on a response from them.
I’ve asked the governor’s office for a response. I’ll let you know when I hear back.
- fs - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 11:44 am:
Aren’t liquor stores already allowed to be open? Why would they be concerned about their license?
- Downstate Illinois - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 11:46 am:
It doesn’t matter if it derives from state law if it’s unconstitutional. The governor is picking favorites and not treating businesses to a single standard. If you can social distance at Walmart you’re capable of doing it at an antique store. Declaring entire classes of businesses and professions as non essential violates the equal protection guarantee under the 14th Amendment.
- Skeptic - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 11:47 am:
“Aren’t liquor stores already allowed to be open?” You don’t sit down in a liquor store.
- fs - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 11:49 am:
== “Aren’t liquor stores already allowed to be open?” You don’t sit down in a liquor store.==
I think you missed my reference. From the post/story:
== “The governor has some authority. I mean, the beauty shops are worried about their licenses. The liquor stores are worried they’ll be fined and have their liquor licenses taken.”==
- PJ - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 11:51 am:
==If you can social distance at Walmart you’re capable of doing it at an antique store==
The obvious difference is that social distancing at Wal-Mart is a risk, but one worth allowing because people can buy essential items like food and cleaning supplies. Social distancing at an antique store is obviously not worth the risk, because antiques are a purely luxury good.
I’m sure you understand this. How many Americans need to die of this for you not to resort to patently ridiculous applications of the constitution? Is it 100,000? If so, good news - we’ll be there before June.
If not, maybe at least noodle on why the state can, for example, require some types of businesses to obtain a license while others don’t. Shockingly, the equal protection clause does not read “all businesses must be treated the same at all times”.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 11:52 am:
=== The governor is picking favorites and not treating businesses to a single standard. If you can social distance at Walmart you’re capable of doing it at an antique store.===
Same square feet?…. as an example…
Open that antique store… right now, WaPo/U of Maryland poll in the last day;
67% uncomfortable going to a retail clothing store.
78% uncomfortable eating in a restaurant.
You open too early, folks will still be spooked, won’t come back at all.
Oh. Cite? Here.
shorturl.at/fnuT9
- SaulGoodman - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 11:52 am:
**Declaring entire classes of businesses and professions as non essential violates the equal protection guarantee under the 14th Amendment.**
Good luck with that.
But if antique stores want to start selling groceries, they could probably open.
- Dotnonymous - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 11:52 am:
Declaring entire classes of businesses and professions as non essential violates the equal protection guarantee under the 14th Amendment.
No,it doesn’t.
- SaulGoodman - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 11:53 am:
Also… different businesses are held to different standards. All. The. Time.
Antique stores, to use your example, don’t have to follow any of the food handling laws that grocery stores do.
- Excitable Boy - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 11:54 am:
- violates the equal protection guarantee under the 14th Amendment -
Oh really counselor? Well, next let’s just go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor.
- Rich Hill - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 11:54 am:
==Also, how do you cut someone’s hair from six feet away?==
Saw this a few weeks ago as one attempt to use stylists’ skills while maintaining social distancing. Have not attempted it.
https://www.youprobablyneedahaircut.com/
- Live Wire - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 11:56 am:
At the Wal-Mart in my area, the have a limit on the number of customers allowed in the building. There are workers at each door tracking the number entering and exiting. I would guess their tablets are linked or sharing an app.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 11:56 am:
===Declaring entire classes of businesses and professions as non essential violates the equal protection guarantee under the 14th Amendment.===
Yeah.
Ok.
If people are scared to shop because of the virus, will the 14th Amendment be the vaccine to ease their worries.
Take your time.
- dbk - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 11:59 am:
–“The governor has some authority. I mean, the beauty shops are worried about their licenses. The liquor stores are worried they’ll be fined and have their liquor licenses taken.”–
Yeah, the governor has authority, and it’s not theoretical. These businesses should be worried.
Re: liquor stores, probably makes more sense if the mayor actually meant “bars.”
But who knows what he actually meant.
- Jocko - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 11:59 am:
==The liquor stores are worried they’ll be fined and have their liquor licenses taken.==
I think he’s talking about the retailer license at restaurants that serve alcohol.
- Demoralized - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 12:08 pm:
==It doesn’t matter if it derives from state law if it’s unconstitutional.==
So I’m assuming if the Supreme Court says it is you’ll be just fine following the Executive Order then, right?
==The governor is picking favorites and not treating businesses to a single standard.==
Nor should they be. It’s a public health issue. Not all businesses are equal right now in terms of following public health guidance. As others have said, you can’t be 6 feet away from someone cutting their hair, giving them a tattoo, doing their nails, etc.
==violates the equal protection guarantee under the 14th Amendment.==
Do you wear a black robe? No? Then nobody cares about your legal “opinion.”
- Leigh John-Ella - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 12:08 pm:
Looks to me like Mayor Jordan may have realized he’s walking his local businesses into a potential liability issue and trying to figure out how to wash his hands of it should things go badly.
Keep scrubbing mayor. Keep scrubbing.
- Dotnonymous - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 12:13 pm:
Liability… is much more than a nine letter word.
- Tawk - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 12:25 pm:
Any business capable of enforcing social distancing guidelines should be allowed to reopen. An antique store is a great example. Your definition of essential may differ from the employees’. If no one wants to shop there, that’s another story.
- cermak_rd - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 12:25 pm:
I saw a picture of a customer getting his hair cut in Germany (their down to each infected person only infecting .7 more people so relaxing a bit), the barber wore a full face shield (plastic like one might wear to protect your face when working with power tools), the customer had a mask on.
That seems doable but honestly with the death cult out there even protesting masks, I do not know how we can have nice things.
- Siualum - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 12:41 pm:
I was at our Wal-Mart this morning (wearing my mask), and overheard a couple clerks talking about a man refusing to wear a mask. Sounded like he was being an ass about it. That sure helps the situation.
- Norseman - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 12:42 pm:
=== I would not want to defy the executive order because I believe that I would be taking on liability if I did that. ===
See McConnell. McConnell and GOP jump for business. Business hates liability for right or wrong actions. Business says jump. McConnell says will do. McConnell refuses state/local help without protections to his masters. Workers ask for help. McConnell says jump in the lake.
- Grandson of Man - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 12:43 pm:
“If people are scared to shop because of the virus”
We should be working hard right now to get a handle on virus spread so we can feel comfortable enough to reopen. I don’t think most people are going to be convinced to reopen by the selfish screamers out in public, with their anti-science and Trump signs. Good lord, what are the ILGOP leaders thinking about this?
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 12:46 pm:
- Norseman -
You’re on it.
If it’s so safe, let the businesses face FULL liability for infections or worse.
If you wanna know truth… always look who is willing to take on liability.
- Frank talks - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 1:12 pm:
I am glad all my friends have stopped being doctors now and have gone back to their original profession of constitutional lawyers.
I was getting worried we’d run out of them.
- ANON - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 1:43 pm:
==I’m sure you understand this. How many Americans need to die of this for you not to resort to patently ridiculous applications of the constitution? Is it 100,000? If so, good news - we’ll be there before June.==
The death toll is a completely fraudulent number. The State has said that, “no matter how you have died” if you are positive for covid they are counting it as a covid death. A hospice patient that was given two weeks to live a week prior to the emergency declaration is counted as a covid death. The country is using scare tactics, cooking the books, so that Americans feel selfish asking that their constitutional rights not be violated.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 1:47 pm:
=== The death toll is a completely fraudulent number.===
Fake News, amirite?
===A hospice patient that was given two weeks to live a week prior to the emergency declaration is counted as a covid death===
Mitigating circumstances. Yikes, man.
=== The country is using scare tactics, cooking the books, so that Americans feel selfish asking that their constitutional rights not be violated.===
“Ok”
Now tell that… to the world.
I know, it’s a big conspiracy to close all the Appleby’s..
- Print Business Owner - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 1:48 pm:
Is the Governor prepared for the lawsuits to come from lost revenue from businesses? What is the states risk of liability. If PPP only lasts 8 weeks, and we are closed for 10 or 12 weeks how can businesses survive. In addition, the moment PPP ends, there will another spike of unemployment due to lost revenue.
- TheInvisibleMan - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 2:31 pm:
And there’s the big one. Insurance coverage being denied for failing to follow state laws.
- Platitudinus - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 2:48 pm:
Trolls on here today are not only dull, they are the cause of dullness in others.
- Proud Sucker - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 3:38 pm:
=== The death toll is a completely fraudulent number.===
Don’t worry, the under reporting will be corrected as time goes on. Unexplained heart attacks in 30 year-olds in January and February will be more thoroughly evaluated. That is your concern, yes? Comorbidity is not a new concept.
- Pundent - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 4:04 pm:
=The death toll is a completely fraudulent number. =
And yet doctors and scientists have said that the number of COVID-19 related deaths is likely understated by thousands. But I’m sure they have some secret desire to unnecessarily scare us.
- Candy Dogood - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 4:42 pm:
===Trolls on here today are not only dull, they are the cause of dullness in others. ===
ANON - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 1:43 pm: Might be a troll, but they are sadly representing a view some individuals I have spoken with “in person” regarding the topic — folks that find themselves on the public payroll that are trying to convince themselves that the deaths are over reported because, *ahem* if you have COVID-19 and you were hit by a car, you’re reported as a COVID-19 death.
It’s a bad argument, it’s a dumb argument, and it’s a really odd position to wind up at — but I think the position doesn’t by itself represent trolling.
These are our neighbors, co-workers, public servants, and leaders that think this too. Not just anonymous trolls.
- Platitudinus - Tuesday, May 5, 20 @ 7:19 pm:
Rep. Kam Buckner:
===COVID will not break us. It will only reveal to us what is already broken. There’s a lot.