Yeah, I’m really wondering what happens if she uses that sort of framing during a legislative committee hearing.
Mark Maxwell:
“Last week we heard from John Bouman, the head of the — formerly with the Shriver Center on Poverty Law — who now heads up a ballot initiative committee trying to persuade voters to ‘Vote Yes for the Fair Tax.’ That’s what their ballot initiative is called. Of course, it refers to the graduated income tax rate structure that would require Illinois to abolish the flat tax we have in place embedded in our Constitution right now. This week, we hear the counter argument from Cindy Neal, who was the chair of the Leadership Council for the NFIB, the National Federation of Independent Business and a business owner in Peoria helping recruit employees and find them jobs in that area. Cindy, it’s good to have you with us.”
Cindy Neal 3:03
Thank you. Thank you, Mark.
Mark Maxwell 3:05
You were at that big press conference that coordinated statewide push a week ago trying to persuade voters of the downside of this. From your vantage point, is there something fundamentally unfair with a graduated income tax rate structure? For example, should the federal government change from where they are now to a flat income tax?
Cindy Neal 3:31
I would love to see the federal government change to a flat income tax. I think that that is what a fair tax is all about. If you pay, if everybody pays the same percentage on your income, I don’t know what could be more fair than that. So if you’re a multimillionaire versus someone who’s at entry level, I think that’s fair and it mathematically is beautiful and perfect.
Mark Maxwell 3:53
It’s a round number. It’s a clean number, but there’s also the reality that the supporters of this graduated income tax — one that has been, you know, in our federal system for decades now — they point out that the people who only make 20 or $30,000 a year, once they pay their taxes and their mortgage and their rent and all that, they live paycheck to paycheck, and they have very little left over. Someone who makes $250,000 a year or a million dollars a year pays their taxes and their mortgage and they have this much bigger chunk of the pie leftover. They have more disposable income. Is that not fair for people who are doing quite well for themselves in this system to kick in a little more to the systems that they take advantage of?
Cindy Neal 4:36
You know, I think that the people that are in those higher income brackets tend to be who I call the makers, and the folks that are in the lower income brackets tend to be what I call the takers. And I do believe that as somebody starting out in life and trying to raise your family, sometimes you need help from different programs and agencies and that’s why we all pay into our tax system to help those folks. But I don’t want to take away from the makers or make them pay more because those are the folks technically, that are reinvesting in businesses, providing employment opportunities for those people that are working their way up the career ladder and are trying to support their families locally.
Mark Maxwell 5:16
I don’t know if Abraham Lincoln would have used some of that same phrase, he often referred to a labor of being worthy of their of the spoils of their labor. You’re calling them takers. These are people who work their way through life.
Cindy Neal 5:29
No, I no… I wouldn’t necessarily I… Takers because they are still needing assistance. So, maybe that’s not the greatest terminology, but it rhymes with makers. So, there are people that make opportunities for others as far as in their business. And normally the folks that are in the higher income brackets, turn around and reinvest that money in new capital equipment, hiring more workers in
Mark Maxwell 5:51
Or their bigger house or their yacht, or a boat.
Cindy Neal 5:56
Sure. As you alluded to Lincoln, why not enjoy the spoils of your labors?
Discuss.
“The so-called low income ‘takers’ are the 97% of Illinoisans, many of whom are our nurses, teachers, grocery store clerks and other essential workers, who have been unfairly carrying the tax burden in our state for far too long. The Fair Tax is our chance to finally set things right,” said Quentin Fulks, Chairman of Vote Yes For Fairness. “Cindy Neal and opponents of the Fair Tax are only out to protect the millionaires and billionaires who benefit from our current broken system: one that enables the wealthy, so-called ‘makers’ to get away without paying their fair share. This attack on low-income Illinoisans coming from someone who two weeks ago claimed to be part of a ‘grassroots’ organization opposing the Fair Tax is not only despicable, it’s pure hypocrisy.”
- Fan - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 9:37 am:
That takers comment is unbelievable. What a bad thought and goofy expression of that thought.
- All this - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 9:39 am:
It must be an interesting experience to be one of those Peoria “takers” being “helped” by Miss Cindy, with her nose all wrinkled in disgust like that.
- Lt Guv - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 9:42 am:
I encourage NFIB to continue to have Ms. Neal serve as their spokesperson. So warm and relatable for the average person. /s
- Elijah Snow - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 9:42 am:
“I think that the people that are in those higher income brackets tend to be who I call the makers, and the folks that are in the lower income brackets tend to be what I call the takers…”
Sounds like someone went on an Ayn Rand binge recently.
- AD - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 9:44 am:
Yeah, not a good look. Their objective this week should’ve been to stay out of the news and let the Madigan story run rampant. Even taking away 2% of the news coverage from that story with this ill advised statement was an unforced error.
- twowaystreet - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 9:44 am:
Cindy’s tone deaf comments show why the flat tax people are going to have a lot trouble gaining support. The 97% of “takers” are not going to care about having the “makers” spend more money for services used by us “takers.”
- Marty Meh-lan - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 9:44 am:
I expect that makers/takers argument from 12 year old edge lords on reddit. This is just wow.
- Cable Line Beer Gardener - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 9:45 am:
Do you suppose Ms. Neal is a recent grad of trump university? I have never in my life heard anyone refer to taxes as beautiful and perfect.
- Contrarian - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 9:49 am:
Hey it ‘rhymes with makers’…why not? This is exactly why repubs can’t win seats.
- That which is understood... - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 9:50 am:
She considered “the greedy and the needy,” but decided to go with makers and takers. As she notes, it is important that they rhyme.
- Grandson of Man - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 9:50 am:
The “takers” are those who make more than others and refuse to pay their fair share in state income tax. Some of these people—the “taxation is theft” crowd—they’d be glad to use public goods and services at no cost to themselves. The IPI is literally telling state workers that if they stop paying union dues they can get the benefits of the union for free.
- JJJJJJJJJJ - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 9:50 am:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t most small businesses in Illinois filing their taxes as pass-throughs? And thus would see a tax cut in the fair tax?
- @misterjayem - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 9:51 am:
Homer Simpson whispering to Cindy Neal: “This is going great…”
– MrJM
- Oswego Willy - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 9:51 am:
To the wealthy and ignorant 3%…
It’s all they got.
Ms. Neal is sad, like Leona Helmsley sad… and pathetic.
The reason Todd Maisch went “Millionaire Tax” too, the 3%ers think people… are thinking… that saving the rich is important.
I’m truly embarrassed for Ms. Neal.
- Candy Dogood - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 9:58 am:
Can we have more of Cindy Neal please?
- Huh? - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 10:01 am:
“turn around and reinvest that money in new capital equipment, hiring more workers”
Um. No. This was basis of the republican’ts 2017 tax cut for high income households.
Studies of the 2017 tax cut have shown that the majority of the wealthy and corporations did not hire new staff or invest in new equipment. Instead, they paid higher dividends, salaries to upper management, bought back stock, and other activities that padded their own incomes. The wealthy got richer.
The trickle down economic theory has shown the stream runs dry long before it reaches those in the lower economic classes.
- Not a Billionaire - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 10:03 am:
If I were the Govs. group I would put her in my ads…..
- MakePoliticsCoolAgain - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 10:03 am:
Every time I think the Governor has an uphill battle on the graduated income tax, the other sides says something so ridiculously ignorant, I’m reminded greedy, rich people just can’t help but show us who they really are.
- Live Wire - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 10:07 am:
Owner of a staffing company. A real maker.
- Big Jer - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 10:11 am:
—–it mathematically is beautiful and perfect—-
It seems Cindy Nelson has been taking rhetoric and discourse lessons from Donald Trump, he who uses the word “beautiful” in all most all his sentences.
- Friendly Bob Adams - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 10:12 am:
This doesn’t reflect well no the company that Neal works for. They have lots of customers that fall into the takers category. Let’s see what happens.
- Rudy’s teeth - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 10:12 am:
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.
—A. Lincoln or Mark Twain
Because they rhyme? Really.
- Lucky Pierre - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 10:12 am:
How on earth can you claim studies show majority of corporations did not hire new staff with a 50 year low in unemployment pre Covid?
https://abcnews.go.com/Business/unemployment-rate-falls-lowest-level-50-years/story?id=66058946
But that doesn’t mean companies aren’t spending on job-creating investments, like new equipment, research projects and factories. Business spending is up 19% — it’s just that buybacks are growing much faster.
- Fly like an eagle - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 10:14 am:
“ I think that’s fair and it mathematically is beautiful and perfect.”
Someone needs to save this. If the graduated tax fails and we need to raise the flat tax just put Neal saying this on TV over and over.
- Really - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 10:20 am:
OK. How about this one? Until you learn to live within your means and properly spend the funds you already receive you don’t deserve new funds. They haven’t had a truly balance budget in 20 years. The new proposed tax doesn’t impact my family and yet we are still all no votes. Not even a Madigan resignation could flip my vote on this. If the state needs more money maybe they could just continue to extort large companies for the monies they need.
- Anonymous - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 10:27 am:
== If the state needs more money maybe they could just continue to extort large companies for the monies they need.==
Or raise the flat tax
- Fly like an eagle - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 10:28 am:
Sorry anonymous was me.
- Norseman - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 10:30 am:
At least she didn’t say, “let them eat cake.”
- Heath - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 10:35 am:
New York’s legislature is poised to tax its 119 billionaires to fund social equity programs.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/16/nyregion/aoc-billionaires-tax.html
- @misterjayem - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 10:36 am:
That doesn’t rhyme, does it?
– MrJM
- Duke of Normandy - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 10:44 am:
Seems like a whole lot of people on the right are saying the quiet part out loud recently. Here’s another example.
- Anotheretiree - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 10:58 am:
Paul Krugman analyzed this mindset a few years back…….” Remember that there are two books that can greatly influence teenagers : Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is about a fantasy world whose unrealism can seriously warp your personality and outlook. The other has orcs in it.”
- Mr. Smith - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 11:00 am:
The Fair Tax folks must be salivating about this. I can’t image a more tone-deaf approach to this than Cindy Nelson has gifted them with. The response to this HAS to include the “Let them eat cake” attitude.
You have to give them (the NFIB) props for knowing their audience, though, with the Trumpian language choices…
- Highland, Il - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 11:15 am:
When the teachers in our local school district went on strike the Chamber members wrote “Letters to the Editor” quoting this same weak Ayn Rynd makers versus takers argument. Guess what they called the teachers?
- 1st Ward - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 11:35 am:
I’m assuming this was taped last week prior to the ComEd DPA? If not, that’s an even worse blunder (if possible).
Further, does she not remember how well Romney’s 47% comment went during the 2012 election.
- Cool Papa Bell - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 11:46 am:
Wow. The anti-fair tax people need to avoid talking to Maxwell until November.
Two massive step in it moments.
“Makers and takers” should galvanize the public on how many of those those with the most, view the rest.
But this group exists to protect the 3% and I bet plenty of the 3% agrees with everything that has been said so far.
- Bigtwich - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 11:49 am:
Is Cindy Neal a nominee for Poet Laureate?
- Huh? - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 11:58 am:
Oh Lucky, bless your heart.
According to the chart in your linked article, by the time the 2017 tax cut was passed, the employment rate was at or below 4%.
Another chart shows the average monthly job growth in the retail industry as -7000 to -13,000.
So, just how exactly did the 2017 republican’t tax benefit the working class? The rich got richer and the poor got poorer.
- Responsa - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 12:02 pm:
Cindy might be a Trojan Horse planted by the Fair Tax people. That didn’t end well for the Trojans if memory serves.
- thoughts matter - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 12:16 pm:
Cindy is a business owner. Does she pay her employees. enough so that they are makers rather than takers? Or is she one of those that accepts that she will have a continual glut of new employees who are there only until they can find something better? Maybe with an employer that respects them instead of looking down at them?
- Glenn - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 12:26 pm:
Here is the full list of Yale Law’s top 10 quotes for 2012:
1. Mitt Romney, “47 percent,” May 17
“There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what … who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims. … These are people who pay no income tax. … and so my job is not to worry about those people. I’ll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.”
- Glenn - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 12:30 pm:
Amazon pays no income tax.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/03/why-amazon-paid-no-federal-income-tax.html
- Siualum - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 12:37 pm:
Lest anyone forget, it’s the “takers” that have made the “makers” successful, in most cases.
- Grandson of Man - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 1:03 pm:
“So, just how exactly did the 2017 republican’t tax benefit the working class?“
As expected, it didn’t. It’s monstrously large free giveaway that greatly benefits those who are already wealthy, which is its intention. The richest don’t spend billions in politics for tax cuts, weakening unions, regulations, etc, to benefit working stiffs.
Some who are already rich and benefit all the more from the Trump tax cuts have real audacity to call low income people takers, especially in Illinois, where low and middle income people have been paying the wealthiest’s tax share for decades.
- Pelonski - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 1:13 pm:
My experience is that almost everyone underestimates the amount they “take” from the government. The most vocal about it, though, are the “makers”. The always fail to grasp that their ability to “make” comes from the fact that they live in a stable society that comes at a cost. If they disagree, I invite them to open business in Somalia, Yemen, or one of the other countries with essentially no central government. Think of all the money they could make! There are effectively no taxes!
- Chichi55 - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 1:19 pm:
The whole problem for voters and the progressive tax is do you believe what the supporters are saying.
- Pundent - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 1:31 pm:
=The whole problem for voters and the progressive tax is do you believe what the supporters are saying.=
I believe that the alternative to the progressive tax is an increase in the flat tax. And if this is the choice that’s presented to the voters I think they’ll believe it too.
- KSDinCU - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 5:23 pm:
I just want to say, I hope people also watched the fascinating interview with Graham Peck about Stephen Douglas. He gives a much more skillful interview than Ms. Neal, and Mark Maxwell really did his homework. Great stuff.
- Harvest76 - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 7:29 pm:
I’ve seen a lot of takers out busting their backs to put food on the family table, but I cant say I’ve seen very many makers doing the labor required to keep society fed, housed, and clothed. But what do I know, I’m just a dumb ol taker.
- TinyDancer(FKASue) - Monday, Jul 20, 20 @ 7:29 pm:
=Or their bigger house or their yacht, or a boat.=
Bingo
- Lynn S. - Wednesday, Jul 22, 20 @ 12:37 am:
a MrJayM,
“Let them eat cake” was originally (allegedly) said in French.
Perhaps it rhymes in some language other than English?