Capitol Fax.com - Your Illinois News Radar » *** UPDATED x1 *** Pritzker says state will resist deployment of Federal Protective Service agents, “And if they do come, we’re going to do everything we can from a legal perspective to get them out”
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*** UPDATED x1 *** Pritzker says state will resist deployment of Federal Protective Service agents, “And if they do come, we’re going to do everything we can from a legal perspective to get them out”

Tuesday, Jul 21, 2020

* CBS

Claiming sending secret militarized federal agents to Chicago “would spell disaster,” Mayor Lori Lightfoot on Monday sent President Donald Trump a letter instead urging him to support new laws to help get illegal guns off the streets.

CBS News has learned the Trump Administration will be sending 175 federal agents to Chicago this week to assist police in curbing violent crime. The agents will come from Chicago, Detroit, St. Paul, Nashville, and likely Atlanta.

The agents will focus on illegal gun sales, gun violence, and outstanding warrants, according to one of the sources.

* CBS sources aside, there’s a growing worry in Chicago that the White House will try to repeat its Portland approach. From the Washington Post

The Oregon attorney general filed a lawsuit late Friday night alleging that the federal government had violated Oregonians’ civil rights by seizing and detaining them without probable cause during protests against police brutality in the past week.

The legal action comes after days of intensifying clashes between the Trump administration and Portland officials, who have accused federal agencies of heavy-handed tactics that inflame unrest and threaten citizens.

Department of Homeland Security agents have swarmed the city in recent days, arguing that they are needed to restore order after nearly two months of demonstrations. But local officials, including Oregon Gov. Kate Brown (D) and Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler (D), have implored the agency to step down, with the mayor calling the police force President Trump’s “personal army” and suggesting its tactics are only making things worse.

* Tribune

At an unrelated news conference Monday morning, Mayor Lori Lightfoot said she has great concerns about the general possibility of President Donald Trump sending feds to Chicago based on what has happened in Portland. […]

“We don’t need federal agents without any insignia taking people off the streets and holding them, I think, unlawfully,” Lightfoot said.

* From Lightfoot’s letter to the president

“…What is needed more than anything in an operation to protect lives is a clear mission, a detailed operations plan, and a chain of command. Secret, federal agents who do not know Chicago, are unfamiliar with the unique circumstances of our neighborhoods and who would operate outside the established infrastructure of local law enforcement would not be effective, regardless of the number, and worse will foment a massive wave of opposition.”

“Deploying resources like we have seen in Portland,” she wrote, “does not make residents safer, particularly when gun violence plays a significant role in Chicago’s loss of life.”

In a statement, a Lightfoot spokesman said, “Should the Trump Administration foolishly try to usurp our local authority, (Lightfoot) will not hesitate to take decisive action to stop this unwanted and dangerous intrusion.”

* The governor was asked about the White House plan today at a Metro East press conference…

My job is to protect the civil liberties of the people of Illinois. This is a wrongheaded move on the part of Donald Trump, on the part of the Department of Homeland Security.

I have put a call into the Acting Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security. He’s refused to call me back telling us that he couldn’t possibly get back to me until about 48 hours from now. That’s ridiculous.

They’re thinking about sending agents in, Federal Protective Service agents into the state of Illinois. They need to answer to the governor of the state to the mayor of the City of Chicago, to the attorney general of the State of Illinois.

We’re going to do everything we can to prevent them from coming. And if they do come, we’re going to do everything we can from a legal perspective to get them out.

Take a very deep breath before commenting.

…Adding… Two things are going over peoples’ heads in comments. 1) The Federal Protective Service is not a police unit. It guards buildings. It’s not capable of police work. 2) The governor has said he doesn’t want that unit deployed in Illinois. He and Mayor Lightfoot never said they wouldn’t welcome other sorts of help from the feds. So, stop reading what you want to read and instead read the actual words in front of your face.

*** UPDATE *** Like I said, some of y’all were getting all huffy for no good reason

President Donald Trump will be sending federal law enforcement agents to help police and the U.S. attorney’s office fight Chicago violence and the city intends to cooperate, Mayor Lori Lightfoot said. […]

Still, she was careful to say her understanding of the situation “at this point” is that the Trump administration won’t be “foolishly” deploying unidentified troops but will be sending additional agents with the FBI, Drug Enforcement Administration and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to Chicago.

Unlike what happened in Portland recently, Lightfoot said, the city will get resources that will plug into “existing federal agencies” that already work with Chicago.

“We welcome actual partnership, but we do not welcome dictatorship, we do not welcome authoritarianism, and we do not welcome unconstitutional arrest and detainment of our residents,” Lightfoot said.

- Posted by Rich Miller        

149 Comments
  1. - Siriusly - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:15 pm:

    Thank you Governor, this is wrong on so many levels.

    I find it sad and strange that none of the so called “freedom fighters” in the Republican party are screaming about federal government over reach today.

    Once again, a vocal segment of the Republican party claims a strong belief in the name of “morality, ethics, freedom,” but is totally silent and turns a blind eye of consent when their guy violates those principles.

    If that is you, please don’t ever again pretend you are anything but a pure partisan.


  2. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:16 pm:

    Republicans speak of “states rights”

    Tough to see how that works with these federal “deployments”


  3. - Blue Dog Dem - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:17 pm:

    your job is to protect the civil liberties of the people living in Illinois? No. Your job has has a couple other priorities as well. How about being able to sit on your front porch without fear of being gunned down.


  4. - Siriusly - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:17 pm:

    ok sorry Rich, I forgot to breathe. You can delete my comment if you think it was too knee jerk.


  5. - Ray Gun - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:18 pm:

    My question for the Honorable Mayor and Governor is, why would you not want their assistance? It’s obvious the City has been out of control for many years. Children are dying here, recently a 7 year old. This has to change, and playing politics with it won’t save any lives. The Governor wants to talk about Civil Liberties…tough to exercise those civil liberties from the grave yard.


  6. - Cool Papa Bell - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:19 pm:

    Help me understand the difference here when the right was outraged about clearly identified federal officials showing up to try and clear out Ammon Bundy and crew and the other instances of outrage over the federales arriving to a number of other places.

    Actual secret police here.. Man what a year.


  7. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:20 pm:

    ===Children are dying here===

    True. Now explain what the Federal Protective Service is gonna do about that.


  8. - Bob Loblaw - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:22 pm:

    It’s wild to see people cite crime rates as a reason why we need a violent occupying federal force on our streets. You can simply google crime stats to see that we are in no way living in a period of high crime relative to other periods of American history.


  9. - Ducky LaMoore - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:23 pm:

    I’m confused as to what the goal would be here other than politics. Constitutional and jurisdictional issues aplenty. Seems like this is the course of action that should have been taken with Cliven Bundy, not the Wall of Moms.


  10. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:25 pm:

    Why all the secrecy?

    If these federal authorities feel this need to be here, identify themselves.

    If having a secret police, a “dark law enforcement” force is a necessity to seem to be a “law and order presidency” who exactly then decides when and where these secret police go?

    No name tags or badges?

    We’re looking at military tactical uniforms and assault weapons “stationed” in neighborhoods…

    … all secret, “law and order”… for the “silent majority”

    Libertarians and Republicans should outraged.

    Why aren’t they?


  11. - Annonin' - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:27 pm:

    And there are still folks who cluck about Biden gaffes. I laugh out loud every when reading about the nutty S* the raunchy pig says and does 20 times a day.
    Guessing the federal forces will run into tactical issues and need local back up ala Portland


  12. - Former Downstater - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:27 pm:

    ==True. Now explain what the Federal Protective Service is gonna do about that.==

    Exactly. Aren’t these the troops being deployed to “protect” monuments and statues? Expect a group to show up at the Columbus statue, which I’m sure will defuse tensions there. /s


  13. - Ducky LaMoore - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:28 pm:

    Ray Gun, how could more armed government officials not working in coordination with anyone be helpful? This is not an offer of assistance. This is a military action against the state, city, citizens, and police.


  14. - Donnie Elgin - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:31 pm:

    “This is military action against the state, city, citizens, and police”

    Chicago Fraternal Order of Police President John Catanzaro seems to disagree with you.

    https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2020/07/18/fop-president-john-catanzara-jr-issues-letter-to-president-trump-asking-for-help-from-federal-government-in-fighting-chaos/


  15. - Former Downstater - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:31 pm:

    ==Libertarians and Republicans should outraged.

    Why aren’t they?==

    Because the masked thugs aren’t grabbing people off their streets, so they don’t care. It’s okay when it’s “those people” in the big cities.


  16. - cermak_rd - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:34 pm:

    the murder situation in Chicago would only be helped if those federal officers contain forensic experts, lab techs, and other investigative experts to actually help to solve the backlog of homicide cases. Chicago’s murder wave is not largely a matter of large organized gangs, it’s a matter of street crews and rough justice. If someone’s friend is killed, then they kill the perp (well they try and maybe miss and kill a 7 year old instead) because the CPD is only gonna solve maybe 1/3 of the actual homicides if that. Add to that the fact that with such a low close ratio, the penalty for killing the guy who did something you didn’t like is a paper tiger since odds are you won’t get caught.

    You wanna lower the murder rate in Chicago? You solve cases (correctly solve, not just frame the nearest moron without a solid alibi).

    A federal force is just going to attract protestors just like it did in Portland without having any other discernible effect.


  17. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:34 pm:

    - Donnie Elgin -

    John Catanzaro‘s personnel record indicates Mr. Catanzaro’s thoughts on policing seem to be, well, not one who sees the community as an ally.

    I dunno if that’s what you think is a good counter, but the FOP’s new leader is the what one would call “community centered”


  18. - JS Mill - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:34 pm:

    I think increasing ATF and FBI support to get guns off of the street and decrease shootings makes a lot of sense, these are agencies that are already in place and have a clear mission, and already have liaison protocols with local, country, and state law enforcement.

    I could even understand if more federal marshals were brought in to help with warrant enforcement.

    Federal agents of any kind to do crowd control or riot duty etc is not their mandate. We have local capacity for that and the national guard if needed.

    What the feds did in Portland is/was wrong. No place for that here, probably illegal.


  19. - Morningstar - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:34 pm:

    I suppose Chicago’s the emergency travel rules wouldn’t apply to this team, but wouldn’t that be fun if they could be detained for 14 days? /s


  20. - Union Dues - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:35 pm:

    Try to cooperate, guide then, and with them as much as possible. Try to put extra the extra resources to work for the city. Fighting against it will likely lead to less control over the outcome.


  21. - Jibba - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:36 pm:

    Unidentified agencies, unmarked cars, whisking “suspects” off to undisclosed locations, and masking detainees are not the methods of policing, but of secret police and dictatorship.


  22. - lake county democrat - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:36 pm:

    If he really wanted to help, he’d send them in with instructions to guard the entrances to the Lakefront, direct traffic, and do paperwork so that more CPD officers were freed to patrol the streets.


  23. - notsosure - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:36 pm:

    Sadly, almost every day I find myself thinking that we are so lucky to have political leaders in our state who understand their role and how government is supposed to function. The fact that they are simply competent (flawed and occasionally wrong, perhaps) puts them head and shoulders above what we see in DC and in many other states. I find this whole thing appalling.


  24. - JS Mill - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:38 pm:

    =Chicago Fraternal Order of Police President John Catanzaro seems to disagree with you.=

    So what?

    He ain’t the chief of police.


  25. - Nagidam - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:40 pm:

    There certainly is a fair amount of the hypocrisy coming out of certain segments of the Republican party. Many have suggested the 2nd amendment s to protect against government over reach. We need our AR’s as a check against the Federal Government. But now they are fine with a covert Federal Force running loose in an American city. If they want to be invited to knock on the doors of those that have had their FOIDs revoked I am all for it.


  26. - Pat - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:40 pm:

    How about instead of complaining
    Blocking
    Ignoring the extra help Offered

    Maybe work with them and see if they can come up with some kind of workable methods to make it safer for the
    Residents


  27. - bluesman2383 - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:40 pm:

    =Libertarians and Republicans should outraged.=

    Libertarians have been outraged since folks allowed the Patriot Act and other similar pieces of legislation were allowed to pass with a whimper from the major parties. Welcome to the party.

    My best solution is to active the entire IL National Guard and meet the DHS folks at the border and turn them around or put them in the streets in Chicago to protect people from the illegal seizures.


  28. - Lake County Guy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:42 pm:

    My two cents……..It’s the Mayor and Governor playing politics. They obviously can’t keep law and order. They should be thanking the federal government for assistance. Until there is some order, I’ll keep my spending out in the suburbs. Why should I give food and beverage taxes to the city when the local police cannot keep the peace? All the Mayor and Governor want is more money from the federal government without any accountability.


  29. - Dotnonymous - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:42 pm:

    When I warned of StormTrumpers on the way,I was accused of hyperbole and of being an alarmist…instead of being correctly prescient…just sayin’ to myself.


  30. - Pearly - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:43 pm:

    - If he really wanted to help, he’d send them in with instructions -

    He doesn’t have any control over them. That’s the “Trump’s personal army” part. The Feds in Portland are an amalgam of random Federal agents with no insignia who don’t take orders from state or local officials.

    If you don’t look at this and see creeping fascism, woo boy.


  31. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:45 pm:

    ===Welcome to the party.===

    Where is this *party* at the moment?

    Seems like a silent resignation *here*, you’d think your (they the Libertarian party) party would make hay here while doing a service to the constitution.

    My “Republican” thought was sadly… rhetorical.

    Trumpkins ceded on many things, *this* included


  32. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:45 pm:

    ===Maybe work with them===

    Again, what can the Federal Protection Service do? They guard buildings, for the most part. That’s not police work. It’s security guard work.


  33. - pool boy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:46 pm:

    Funny how he has picked another state with a democratic Governor and a city with a democratic Mayor. Where was his help when we were asking for help?


  34. - Pearly - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:47 pm:

    - They should be thanking the federal government for assistance. -

    Assistance with what? Do you have any idea what their mission will be? If they make arrests, under what authority will they do so? Do you envision squads of Border Patrol agents roaming the streets?

    If you think this is a good thing, please first ask yourself what you would have said if the Obama admin had sent in the same forces to southern Illinois and Republican strongholds to quell “unrest”.


  35. - Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:48 pm:

    The way Trump is handling the pandemic, we don’t want him here.

    It’s just campaign fodder for Trump, who’s always on campaign. If Trump really cared about high-crime urban areas he wouldn’t have slashed taxes and regulations, pushed by the GOP’s super-rich funders, but would have instead put together a big national plan to fund jobs and education, gun reform, anti-violence programs, etc.


  36. - Donnie Elgin - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:49 pm:

    The Dem leadership of Illinois should not have taken the bait Trump offered. Nationally they will be cast as defending the status quo and rejecting “law and order”. With the escalating gun violence in Chicago that is a precarious spot.

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/criminal-justice/ct-chicago-police-six-month-crime-stats-20200626-wqsf3rebavaldex7v54ozqsnxe-story.html


  37. - DuPage Saint - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:52 pm:

    If Feds really wanted to help they would enforce federal law banning felons from owning a firearm. Carries a 5 year minimum federal sentence
    Otherwise stay away and also don’t threaten education funding. Nothing used to be more Republican than local control especially of police, education and elections


  38. - Pat - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:52 pm:

    I’m sure they could do something
    They could do the security guard work
    So the actual police could be freeD up to do other duties


  39. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:52 pm:

    ===They could do the security guard work===

    On what?


  40. - The Dust - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:54 pm:

    It is the Wild West in Chicago right now. The Governor and the Mayor refuse to do anything but sit on their hands. It is time for something to be done. It seems to me either they need to get tough on the lawlessness or the President is. Please Mayor its time to take our city back from the unlawful.


  41. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:55 pm:

    === The Dem leadership of Illinois should not have taken the bait Trump offered. Nationally they will be cast as defending the status quo and rejecting “law and order”. With the escalating gun violence in Chicago that is a precarious spot.===

    You think…

    Occupying United States’ cities with a “dark law enforcement” force is a necessity… and a “law and order presidency” that decides when and where these secret police… go… No name tags or badges… military tactical uniforms and assault weapons “stationed” in neighborhoods…

    Is a good… political move?

    Have you ever lived in a country with a fascist regime at the helm… that’s where these tactics are used. You’re in one when this happens.


  42. - Nicky - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:56 pm:

    Bottom line

    What the mayor and the governor are doing
    Isn’t working

    If they really wanted to help the people of Chicago
    They would be open to working with fed govt

    The fact that they want to completely dismiss the offer
    Speaks volumes


  43. - Put the fun in unfunded - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 1:58 pm:

    I think bringing in federal law enforcement in this way is a terrible idea and won’t work. However, for years we’ve been hearing how state/local law enforcement will not enforce federal immigration law because that is the federal government’s job. Under that line of argument, federal agents might start showing up to enforce federal laws - and virtually anything can be charged as a federal crime of some sort…


  44. - JSS - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:00 pm:

    If this is a move to address street violence and there is cooperation with local law enforcement, I applaud the move.

    I don’t actually believe that will happen though, instead the federal troops are going to be there to antagonize protesters so Trump can have more footage for his campaign ads. Trump is basically running on law and order so why try to fix the actual crime problem in Chicago when you can use the problem as a dog whistle to his base.


  45. - SAP - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:04 pm:

    If Illinois State Police came across a bunch of heavily-armed (open carry) guys waltzing down Michigan Avenue and refusing to identify themselves, would not ISP be within their rights to arrest them for firearm violations?


  46. - Thomas Paine - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:05 pm:

    This doesn’t end well.

    Lightfoot is baiting him.


  47. - nua - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:05 pm:

    How many buildings in the loop/city are federal property? If these ‘helpers’ leave those grounds, they are overstepping their authority. I think this will hinder and effort to quell the protests. Reason for coming to Chicago should be completely unrelated to attempting to police to address the current surge in gun violence.


  48. - Almost the weekend - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:05 pm:

    I don’t know if this is the right answer, probably not, but the status quo is not working especially with the Cpd and Lightfoot supporting just kicking people off the corners.

    This feels like season 6 of the Wire.


  49. - Dave W - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:08 pm:

    I’m guessing that none of the “outraged” commenters live in these neighborhoods overrun by violence.


  50. - Friend of the Family - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:08 pm:

    What Federal help ‘would’ the city be willing to accept to protect lives in Chicago? From what I read it seems like the the state and city are more concerned about not giving the Donald anything that would remotely look like cooperation, let alone something he may be able to point to as a win. So if there is federal assistance that can help, what would it be, and have they asked for it?


  51. - Bob Loblaw - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:09 pm:

    After several deep breaths, my calm comment is to simply note that many defenders of this action seem to think that the feds can just occupy your city for “reasons,” even if that state and city expressly don’t want them there. I guess my approach is that this is a state issue inherently, and for good reason.


  52. - Pundent - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:09 pm:

    Violent street crime has unfortunately been an issue that Chicago has grappled with for decades and is rooted in many issues. It won’t be solved through more boots on the street or federal intervention. But that’s not what this is about.

    This is simply a move intended to incite conflict between law enforcement and protesters in democratic run cities. Having failed in his handling of a devastating illness that’s now claimed the lives of over 140K it’s the President’s attempt to change the subject.


  53. - Boog Alou - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:09 pm:

    Some of ya’ll clearly couldn’t pick Chicago out of a map of Cook County.


  54. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:10 pm:

    So you folks defending this, which by my count is the second recent example of President Trump sending armed federal officers to intimidate state and local elected officials who disagree with him. That is what you’re defending. Wake up. This is not normal.


  55. - Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:10 pm:

    Trump doesn’t care about Chicago or any Democratic-led city. He constantly attacks them. Pritzker and Lightfoot know that. Trump is using the city as a campaign prop for “law and order.”


  56. - Watcher of the Skies - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:10 pm:

    ==It is the Wild West in Chicago right now.==

    It’s always easy to spot the ones who don’t live here.


  57. - Humboldt - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:11 pm:

    Are these 175 agents going to self-quarantine when they arrive if they’re coming from a hotspot?

    We don’t want nobody trump sent


  58. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:12 pm:

    ===I’m guessing that none of the “outraged” commenters live in these neighborhoods overrun by violence.===

    So end constitutional rights and norms?

    Huh. That’s an odd take.


  59. - Downstate - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:13 pm:

    Here’s the dirty little secret…..

    The problem can be solved overnight with the deployment of armed “peacekeepers”.

    But, unless that force can remain indefinitely, no one has a viable solution for what happens after those individuals are withdrawn. What’s to prevent it from returning back to


  60. - Downstate - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:14 pm:

    sorry….

    “returning back to the past.”


  61. - walker - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:18 pm:

    My experience with various public protests, tells me that this Federal action will create more violent confrontations, if the approach is like that used in Portland, and actually lessen public and police safety.

    My fear is that this is politically deliberate, and these Federal tactics could become self-justifying as violence increases and more people are harmed.


  62. - Dave W - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:18 pm:

    == So end constitutional rights and norms?==

    What constitutional rights are they ending? You have no idea what role they will be playing. The article says they will be focusing on illegal gun sales, gun violence and outstanding warrants. How do you know they won’t be directly coordinating with the US Atty’s office, the US Marshals, ISP or CPD? And how do you know they’re not focusing on federal gun crimes and federal warrants? No, instead we should all hyperventilate and pretend that Trump is bringing in the SS troops to lock up all innocent dissenters, right? Or, we should spend all of our time virtue signaling, and ignoring the habitual violent crime that local officials have no answers for?


  63. - @misterjayem - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:18 pm:

    “your job is to protect the civil liberties of the people living in Illinois? No. Your job has has a couple other priorities as well. How about being able to sit on your front porch without fear of being gunned down.”

    It’s a little late in your CapFax commenting career for you to start pretending that you give a damn about anybody other than yourself, much less Chicagoans.

    – MrJM


  64. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:20 pm:

    Dave W., this is a gross abuse of presidential power. If there was any legitimacy to this, why Chicago and not Gary? Why not St. Louis or Baltimore?

    This is another outrageous act to further divide and distract this country. Wake up.


  65. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:21 pm:

    - Dave W -

    Tenth Amendment;

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

    Keep up.


  66. - Cheryl44 - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:27 pm:

    Arrest all of them. Lock them up, no bail. Whats Trump going to do then?


  67. - nua - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:29 pm:

    Will the federal actors be playing the same role here as they have in Portland? If so, why would it work out better in Chicago?

    Is this just an attempt ‘Own the Libs’?


  68. - FormerParatrooper - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:30 pm:

    Where I understand they are only supposed to be interfering with destruction of Federal property, there is a such thing called mission creep. If I could believe they would only arrest and detain the ones targeting federal properly I would be ok and supportive of it. However, I do have a distrust of the federal government and not just under the current POTUS but the previous ones as well.

    We have a fire that is feeding on itself. There are peaceful protestors and they seem to outnumber the rioters. The rioters are causing destruction and to have let them carry on for so long has people wanting to sacrifice freedom for security. Protest all day everyday, it is one of our greatest rights as Americans, but we do not have a right to destroy in protest.


  69. - Politix - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:31 pm:

    One of the talking heads last night suggested our governors could call in the national guard to protect us. Do we have any other barriers?


  70. - "Doc" Adams - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:36 pm:

    The U.S. Marshal Service has the broadest jurisdiction of any law enforcement entity in the country. They are also the oldest having been established by President George Washington in 1789. They do not just “guard buildings”. There is also nothing secret about their operations. However, they don’t hold pressers before and after everything they do. SOG units have clearly identified “POLICE” markings front and back and they are identifying themselves to the people they are taking into custody. This “secret police” shrillness is laughable.


  71. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:39 pm:

    === The U.S. Marshal Service===

    Are they US Marshals?

    Haven’t heard.

    === This “secret police” shrillness is laughable.===

    Then why the secrecy as to their origin, who is leading them, and their “mission”?

    “Law and Order”, amirite?


  72. - "Doc" Adams - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:41 pm:

    …and as a reminder. Lightfoot uses former U.S. Marshals for her personal security detail.


  73. - Tynie - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:41 pm:

    I’ve looked into it, and YES POTUS can send federal agents into a city. It’s covered by 40 U.S. Code § 1315.

    I googled that law and there was so much legalese in it, I had to find a layperson’s translation to understand the scope.
    Btw: here’s one such article:

    https://jonathanturley.org/2020/07/21/can-president-trump-really-send-in-the-troops-to-chicago-and-other-cities/amp/?__twitter_impression=true


  74. - Fixer - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:41 pm:

    Does FPS have insignia of some sort or are they the same folks as in Portland running around the streets with no ID and arresting folks? If they are, then I understand why the mayor and governor are so adamantly against them being here.


  75. - Friend of the Family - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:42 pm:

    @Humboldt, the officers will be outside wearing masks, so like with protesters, there is no risk to anyone.


  76. - DownstateR - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:43 pm:

    OW, with respect, libertarians have been yelling about the “drug war” (*wink*) and militarization of the police for at least 20 years. As an organized party, there’s not much to be said. Reason.com and others have mapped it out.


  77. - Pundent - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:43 pm:

    =1) The Federal Protective Service is not a police unit. It guards buildings. It’s not capable of police work.=

    It’s like sending in the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to guard the Chicago River.


  78. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:44 pm:

    === …and as a reminder. Lightfoot uses former U.S. Marshals for her personal security detail.===

    That may say more about the “officers” on CPD than the “greatness” of the Marshals.

    As far as a side note goes, it didn’t add much.


  79. - DownstateR - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:47 pm:

    Maybe my 51 years are showing, but… WHAT is a “conservative” and WHAT is a “liberal” nowadays? Seems it’s S&M. Not good.


  80. - DownstateR - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:48 pm:

    To the post, the Feds aren’t necessary, at least not their current mission.


  81. - Mongo - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 2:58 pm:

    Two things.

    Catanzaro is a bad actor with a lot of lucky breaks in his personnel folder. Discard anything he says, quickly.

    Wonder if he will send these troops to Maryland or Missouri, where there are Republican governors? Nope, I thought not.

    Pure politics.


  82. - The Dust - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 3:08 pm:

    @watcher if the skies just are everyone else can spot people with their head in the sand if they believe the status quo means about the lives of black people.


  83. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 3:16 pm:

    JB and mayor - do us a favor and cooperate. You’re record shows you need help.


  84. - A Guy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 3:16 pm:

    ==Take a very deep breath before commenting.==

    Maybe using bolder type and capital letters might have helped.


  85. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 3:18 pm:

    To the update;

    === Unlike what happened in Portland recently, Lightfoot said, the city will get resources that will plug into “existing federal agencies” that already work with Chicago.

    “We welcome actual partnership, but we do not welcome dictatorship, we do not welcome authoritarianism, and we do not welcome unconstitutional arrest and detainment of our residents,” Lightfoot said.===

    This is a good way to let all of government and law enforcement be seen as partners to even the community.

    Far different than Portland.

    Like, “the complete opposite of Portland” different.


  86. - Quibbler - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 3:19 pm:

    == Like I said, some of y’all were getting all huffy for no good reason… ==

    The story in the update….isn’t reassuring. It’s very thin on details. And the Trump admin line all along has been that federal forces in Portland and elsewhere are “fighting violence,” which is exactly what the story claims they’ll be doing in Chicago. It’s no surprise Lori caved because she’s terrible as far as standing up to law enforcement locally or federally, but it’s not at all clear why anyone else should feel any relief.


  87. - Louis G Atsaves - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 3:25 pm:

    I have two cousins who are Chicago Police Department. One tactic of aggressive protesters is to take a picture of their name ID and then Google them. He claims several officers have received anonymous telephone calls to their homes threatening their families and that their personal information is easily accessible including their mail addresses. They all are required to live in the City. I noticed that during the Columbus Statue Riot last weekend, CPD were using their flashlights and shining them into phones of protesters trying to photo or video their ID badges. I now understand why they do that.

    I work downtown Chicago surrounded by Federal Buildings including the new U.S. Post Office Building about a block away. At times there are groups of CPD Officers in front of those buildings. If bringing in those Feds frees up the Police to stop the continued looting in the Loop area alone, then bring them in.

    This weekend, 50 cops injured, 18 sent to hospitals, one with a fractured eye socket who got hit by a can or rock thrown by the so called disorganized, leaderless rioters dressed all in black and all protecting themselves with black helmets and black umbrellas from the missiles being pelted over their heads. None of the initial cops guarding the statue or patrolling that protest that turned ugly were wearing helmets, had shields or other means to defend themselves, which is a pretty astonishing failure of leadership in the CPD.

    Lightfoot needs to wake up and start securing and safeguarding her City. If the Feds are offering help, she should either consider taking it instead of the usual knee jerk reaction of screaming Trump, or take the leash off the police department she controls and let them finally restore some semblance of order.

    In my section of the Loop where I work, many of the buildings are still decorated by plywood following massive looting. The Federal Reserve Building, Federal Courthouse, Federal Offices and Federal Jail facilities are two blocks away. Two blocks south is the new U.S. Chicago Post Office Building. Three blocks north is the Social Security Building. My office building did not get any mail or mail packages for 10 days after the Floyd murder. It took the post office a full week to pick up the outgoing mail. If the Feds that are sent in guard those facilities and others and free up the CPD Officers who now often are posted in front of them, then go for it.

    Enough already.


  88. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 3:31 pm:

    === Enough already.===

    So you moving your office - Louis G Atsaves -… or not … “that” enough..

    LOL

    You ready to admit you support Trump yet… or not?

    Counselor?


  89. - Rita - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 3:31 pm:

    Thank God for Donald Trump. Finally a politician who actually cares about the lives of black children.


  90. - Franklin - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 3:33 pm:

    A big public fight with the President sure takes attention away from school opening and Springfield corruption questions.


  91. - Friend of the Family - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 3:33 pm:

    @Louis G Atsaves, very well stated.


  92. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 3:36 pm:

    === They all are required to live in the City. I noticed that during the Columbus Statue Riot last weekend, CPD were using their flashlights and shining them into phones of protesters trying to photo or video their ID badges. I now understand why they do that.===

    Bad apples need protection?


  93. - 44th - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 3:37 pm:

    well stated Louis.


  94. - 44th - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 3:43 pm:

    Feds explains that the doxxing is why no names on their uniforms. As LA stated, CPD gets doxxed, families threatened. Get the violence under control Gov and Mayor and no need for feds.


  95. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 3:43 pm:

    === take the leash off the police department she controls and let them finally restore some semblance of order.===

    Let loose the bad apples to hurt people… in the name of law and order…

    Hmm… that’s a take.


  96. - Gene Gene - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 3:46 pm:

    * Bad apples need protection? *

    How do you know they are bad apples?


  97. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 3:48 pm:

    === How do you know they are bad apples?===

    Hiding badge numbers and names is a *good* thing?

    Isn’t doing so… against policy?


  98. - dbk - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 3:51 pm:

    Hmm, the Update makes it clear that there was some negotiation behind the scenes, and that the Feds will be coming to help with what Lightfoot actually had requested their help with (ATF, DEA, FBI - a whole different ball game than in Portland).

    Somebody did some pretty nifty triangulation.

    The situation in Portland (not only FPS, but BORTAC, US Marshalls Special Ops, ICE agents) won’t be repeated in Chicago, and that’s a very good thing; Chicago protestors are not Portland protestors, and Pritzker-Lightfoot (who united, again, on a significant issue) are not the Portland Mayor-Oregon Governor.


  99. - Huh? - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 3:51 pm:

    Rita - we’ll take your comment as snark. The tramp only cares about himself.


  100. - Ducky LaMoore - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 3:57 pm:

    Very telling how many are willing to conflate peaceful protests with the dopes throwing bottles. Not the same thing. Nobody is saying those who commit violence against police shouldn’t be caught and held accountable for their actions. What we are saying is, peaceful protesters shouldn’t get tear-gassed and hit with batons by unidentified employees of the federal government.


  101. - illinifan - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 4:03 pm:

    The authority to place them in Federal sites is under Federal code 40 US 1315. The language of that code is specific on what they can and cannot do. As to local police actions it says “This is the exact language for Authority Outside of Federal Property “For the protection of property owned or occupied by the Federal Government and persons on the property, the Secretary may enter into agreements with Federal agencies and with State and local governments to obtain authority for officers and agents designated under this section to enforce Federal laws and State and local laws concurrently with other Federal law enforcement officers and with State and local law enforcement officers.” The mayor has clearly said in the letter she wants to establish some type of cooperation and chain of command. But you need DHS to return phone calls to get this agreement. If they do not want to talk about how to get this done then they need to stay in the Federal buildings and not extend actions outside of them.


  102. - Aldyth - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 4:15 pm:

    What actually happened in Portland? A 53 year old retired Naval officer, graduate of the Naval Academy, wearing a hat and shirt that identified him as a veteran, decided to talk to some of those “secret police” to learn why they were there. What happened? The veteran who was not engaged in any aggressive behavior was beaten with a baton, breaking his arm in two places and leaving him with cuts and bruises.
    That veteran went to talk. That veteran says that the secret police were there to fight.
    Last night, downtown Portland was filled with thousands of nonviolent protectors singing “We Shall Overcome” and holding candles.
    The real Americans will not bow to secret police and Trumpian intimidation.


  103. - Jibba - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 4:19 pm:

    ===and they are identifying themselves to the people they are taking into custody===

    Not according to interviews with detainees I’ve seen. And a generic “police” label is not adequate. A “US Marshall” jacket will not lead to doxxing, but it will lead to transparency.


  104. - NothsideNoMore - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 4:24 pm:

    Maybe the mayor should check in with local beat cops about support and/or the families of the hundreds of un-solved murder /shooting victims. Seems like maybe the city could use some help.


  105. - Ducky LaMoore - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 4:41 pm:

    “Seems like maybe the city could use some help.”

    Agreed. Teargassing peaceful protesters helps them how?


  106. - Angry Republican - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 4:54 pm:

    Isn’t the Post Office considered a Federal Building? How will ballots be delivered without the US Postal Service?


  107. - Anon - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 4:55 pm:

    The right to feel secure and safe is being ignored. Why? People living in the city shouldn’t have to cower in fear. One solution, since laws can’t seem to be enforced, is to move out of the city ( for those that can). Is that the desired outcome in mind for Mayor Lightfoot and Governor Pritzker? Because losing law abiding good residents would be a logical consequence. Someone needs to do something about terrorizing law abiders if they’d like them to stay


  108. - Motambe - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 5:00 pm:

    If nothing else President Trump stimulates discussion regarding Federalism, the limitations that the Constitution and Bill of Rights places on the national government and the powers reserved to the states. For several months the media and politicians have debated whether the President should impose national COVID virus restrictions, or if he has the power to do so. Now the Acting Secretary for Homeland Security states he will send Federal Protective Service personnel to guard federal buildings and mayors and governors resist those efforts as “occupations.” In our Illinois situation, if the Chicago Mayor and Illinois Governor prevent Federal authorities from protecting federal buildings, then their police forces assume that responsibility and their taxpayers are liable for all costs of damages caused by protesters.


  109. - Nagidam - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 5:04 pm:

    ===Hiding badge numbers and names is a *good* thing?===

    OW,

    The point here is that the badge numbers and names allow for easily finding out personal information on these officers to the point where they and their families are at risk. There needs to be a better way to protect their identities while still allowing for identification should the need arise.


  110. - Excitable Boy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 5:06 pm:

    Yeah Louis, it’s a real war zone in the Loop, you must be terrified every time you waddle into your office.

    Not one word in your post about any of the systemic problems in the neighborhoods with actual violence and police brutality, your only answer is more aggressive policing and force.

    You’re a coward and a hack.


  111. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 5:16 pm:

    - Nagidam -

    With respect.

    I do understand the fear and angst upon police officers.

    I also understand that it’s policy that neither the badge nor the name tags should be hidden, and further, discipline has been called upon those who do such things.

    If it’s against policy to hide badge numbers and names, and “cheering” that officers are not following policy… and trying this by - Louis G Atsaves -…

    ===They all are required to live in the City. I noticed that during the Columbus Statue Riot last weekend, CPD were using their flashlights and shining them into phones of protesters trying to photo or video their ID badges. I now understand why they do that.===

    … but ignoring the need for police accountability… while also typing this, also - Louis G Atsaves -;

    === take the leash off the police department she controls and let them finally restore some semblance of order.===

    … are we *really* talking about protecting “good apples”… or more promoting Trumpian ideals to hurt people “to teach”, laws ignored and policies ignored too… to protect “bad” apples?

    I didn’t type it. - Louis G Atsaves - did.

    So who exactly is he looking to protect?

    With respect, bud


  112. - Morty - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 5:24 pm:

    ‘ your job is to protect the civil liberties of the people living in Illinois’

    Actually, isn’t that in their oath of office?


  113. - illlinifan - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 6:15 pm:

    The mayor and CPD have announced that this will be a cooperative effort with the Feds. Exactly as it should be done https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/07/21/trump-sends-feds-chicago-lightfoot-portland/5480104002/


  114. - A - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 6:52 pm:

    However it happens and who actually does it…….don’t care. I have to wonder how many folks commenting live or work in Chicago. If they dont then they don’t know. Hard to leave your high rise for even groceries when there’s a mob on your street, anarchy graffiti spray painted on your building This is an acceptable way to live? Any return to calm respectful life however it gets done should be desired by any human being


  115. - 1st Ward - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 6:59 pm:

    The ATF/FBI not FPS should have been obvious based on CBS’ article “The agents will focus on illegal gun sales, gun violence, and outstanding warrants, according to one of the sources.”

    FPS is in Portland due to:

    https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/16/acting-secretary-wolf-condemns-rampant-long-lasting-violence-portland


  116. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 7:05 pm:

    - Excitable Boy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 5:06 pm:

    Yeah Louis, it’s a real war zone in the Loop, you must be terrified every time you waddle into your office.

    Not one word in your post about any of the systemic problems in the neighborhoods with actual violence and police brutality, your only answer is more aggressive policing and force.

    You’re a coward and a hack.
    ______________________________________________

    EB, thank you. You win the CapFax post of the day, imo. That is EXACTLY what I was thinking. Well done.


  117. - 1st Ward - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 7:16 pm:

    More recent press release with updated event timeline. They are protecting a federal courthouse.

    https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/21/portland-riots-read-out-july-21


  118. - Abby normal - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 7:31 pm:

    They’re jerks in Portland but they’re gonna be nice and cooperative with us. Anyone else have a problem with this?


  119. - Blue Dog Dem - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 7:31 pm:

    I recommend chicagoans follow the lead of the Portland moms. Get out front and protect from violence and such.


  120. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 7:38 pm:

    - 1st Ward -

    “Because we don’t have that local support, that local law enforcement support, we are having to go out and proactively arrest individuals, and we need to do that because we need to hold them accountable,”

    - Acting DHS Secretary Chad Wolf, Fox News

    You think … “proactive arrests”… sounds at all… constitutional?

    “We think you might break the law so we’re rounding you up”

    Hmm.


  121. - Ducky LaMoore - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 8:19 pm:

    “We think you might break the law so we’re rounding you up”

    Sounds like China with Muslims.


  122. - Nico - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 8:40 pm:

    Another shooting

    Take the help


  123. - Cadillac - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 8:41 pm:

    === Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 ===

    1. If having a secret police, a “dark law enforcement” force is a necessity to seem to be a “law and order presidency” who exactly then decides when and where these secret police go?

    2. Occupying United States’ cities with a “dark law enforcement” force is a necessity… and a “law and order presidency” that decides when and where these secret police… go… No name tags or badges… military tactical uniforms and assault weapons “stationed” in neighborhoods…

    3. Then why the secrecy as to their origin, who is leading them, and their “mission”?

    And finally, the end of another day on CapFax (Maybe?):

    This is a good way to let all of government and law enforcement be seen as partners to even the community.

    LOL


  124. - 1st Ward - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 8:46 pm:

    @OW I would have to hear the full interview to understand the context of what he means by “pro-actively arrest” to answer your question.

    According to the NYT all they need is probable cause but “whether they stretched the law would be up to a judge”.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/17/us/politics/federal-agents-portland-arrests.html

    This law was passed and has continued under both R and D administrations and congress.

    You and other D media outlets wanted the federal government to do stay at home orders on the entire country and control who and what can re-open and when with Covid. Would that be constitutional?

    The FPS is protecting Federal Property since state/local are standing down. Is the answer we wait until 3 or 4 people are shot like CHOP/CHAZ?


  125. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 8:46 pm:

    - Cadillac -

    Seriously, if I occupy any more of your cranial space, you are going to have to pay *me* to pay attention, lol

    === This is a good way to let all of government and law enforcement be seen as partners to even the community.===

    Tell that to … John Catanzaro?


  126. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 8:53 pm:

    - 1st Ward -

    Is that like “what the definition of is… is”?

    === You and other D media===

    Yeah, I’m stopping ya there.

    I’m a Republican, not a Trumpkin.

    === wanted the federal government to do stay at home orders on the entire country and control who and what can re-open and when with Covid. Would that be constitutional?===

    Tell that to the 140,000 dead, the 60,000 just yesterday infected.

    “Freedom”… what a crock. You’re infecting and killing people, because selfish people can’t wear a mask for 8 weeks.

    === According to the NYT all they need is probable cause but “whether they stretched the law would be up to a judge”.===

    So… proactively “pre-arrest”… hope for a judge to see its cool?

    You want *all* these freedoms to infect everyone, but lock up anyone that look at someone funny and hope for judge that agrees?


  127. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 8:55 pm:

    === defend your comments===

    There nothing to defend. They stand on their merits.

    If you want, knock them down… all you’re doing is repeating them, no wonder there’s so much room in your head… it’s empty

    LOL


  128. - Cadillac - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 9:05 pm:

    Funny.

    Either defend your comments, or apologize to the Big Bad Orange Man. You were wrong, amirite?


  129. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 9:08 pm:

    === Either defend your comments===

    I stand by them.

    Ok, what don’t you like about them. Where are they wrong.

    Are you too dense to argue the merits?

    You have to *explain* why you disagree.

    That’s how arguing points… works.

    Cut and paste again… this time, argue the point where you find fault.

    Yikes, man, don’t work heavy machinery, for your own sake.


  130. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 9:25 pm:

    === Have a good night===

    You couldn’t come up with ONE item to make a critical argument on?

    Next time, instead of thinking that copying and pasting is an argument, have one.

    Stay safe, stay well.


  131. - 1st Ward - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 9:35 pm:

    “You want *all* these freedoms to infect everyone, but lock up anyone that look at someone funny and hope for judge that agrees?”\

    I don’t know who the you is. I never said that. I never said lock anyone up. You asked about constitutionality. Neither of us are constitutional scholars. The NYT article states DHS has extremely broad powers citing people with constitutional expertise when it comes to federal law enforcement.


  132. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 9:39 pm:

    === media outlets wanted a federal stay-at-home order at the beginning and didn’t care about constitutionality but this suddenly gets brought up in Portland. There’s no consistency.===

    A global pandemic needs a national response.

    Other countries, 3rd world countries, are doing this better.

    The constitutionality isn’t that everyone is jailed in their house, as a country, as a government, we work to make a stay at home order possible for workers, businesses, business owners, and safe for front line workers.

    That’s how 1st world countries tackle real world pandemic problems.

    We are now so far from acting like a first world nation, taking care of people, businesses, states, that arguing that *any* attempt to save lives is “unconstitutional” is arguing that “meh, I’m willing to have…‘You’re infecting and killing people’… as an argument to not shut it down.

    === Again i asked for context based on the question he was responding to and his full answer. I can’t answer. Feel free to post the video.===

    (Sigh)

    https://twitter.com/josh_wingrove/status/1285714470250086402?s=21


  133. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 9:42 pm:

    === You asked about constitutionality.===

    Asked and answered above, as is your other thoughts


  134. - 1st Ward - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 10:45 pm:

    OW Do better. Watch the whole video. the next sentence explains the “pro-active” arrest “this idea that they can attack federal property and law enforcement officers and go to the other side of the street and say you can’t touch us is ridiculous. we don’t do that in law enforcement.”

    The context is state/local would handle the arrest if the criminal runs across the street. There is no support thus FPS “pro-actively” arrests said criminal when they run across the street after the criminal committed a crime.


  135. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 10:53 pm:

    === Do better===

    I’m good, thanks.

    That doesn’t explain away grabbing people, throwing then in unmarked vans, or picking people up away from those situations.

    Ignoring the whole picture is looking for excuses when he readily admits what’s going on, but choosing one instance that may fly.

    You know that, but you want the narrow.

    I appreciate you trying to pigeon hole it, but deciding the narrow explanation to the broad things happening still makes this “harrowing” if it wasn’t so… dark.


  136. - Louis G Atsaves - Tuesday, Jul 21, 20 @ 11:29 pm:

    ===Not one word in your post about any of the systemic problems in the neighborhoods with actual violence and police brutality, your only answer is more aggressive policing and force.===

    Tell that to the 14 attendees shot in Gresham while attending a funeral this evening. At least 60 shots fired. One recorded death so far. The vehicle doing the shooting circled the block and funeral attendees were shooting back.

    Got an award for that one?

    Enough is enough.


  137. - 1st Ward - Wednesday, Jul 22, 20 @ 12:44 am:

    @OW this goes back to legality vs. ethics/morals. The latter does not exist in the WH and Portland occurs to distract from the failure of the pandemic.

    We have done this multiple times.. “Federal law enforcement is not a by-invitation-only exercise, said Jonathan Turley, a constitutional expert and criminal defense attorney who represented journalists and legal observers arrested as part of a mass roundup during demonstrations in D.C. in 2002.”

    “Some of the DHS officers’ recent tactics have generated controversy, including their wearing of uniforms that sometimes do not clearly note their identity or which agency they work for, and their use of unmarked vans. Legal analysts, though, said such tactics — while possibly objectionable — are legal and commonplace”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/facing-unrest-on-american-streets-trump-turns-homeland-security-powers-inward/2020/07/21/655e7822-cb71-11ea-89ce-ac7d5e4a5a38_story.html


  138. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jul 22, 20 @ 5:36 am:

    One cite does not make the legality at all legal.

    A Supreme Court decision makes their decisions… a matter of legal distinction, and you don’t have that.

    If ethically you agree with “the gray”, then you do.


  139. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jul 22, 20 @ 5:48 am:

    === Enough is enough.===

    This is - Louis G Atsaves -

    This is who he is;

    === take the leash off the police department she controls and let them finally restore some semblance of order.===

    How so very Trumpian…


  140. - 17% Solution - Wednesday, Jul 22, 20 @ 6:44 am:

    This is 100% God’s fault. God gave people free will. No mayor or governor or president can go inside a person’s head and make them be good.

    The good thing about free will is people can be persuaded. This group is doing just that. They are preventing harm. https://www.npr.org/local/309/2020/07/02/886542072/chicago-shootings-are-called-senseless-but-anti-violence-workers-say-that-s-too-easy

    The problem with bringing in more people to stop violence with police action is police action is always reactive. Louis G. Atsaves how would any officer prevent the funeral shooting that you describe? How would they know which funeral to go to?

    You can’t stop violence by being reactive. It can only stop by being proactive. Because people have free will.


  141. - Louis G Atsaves - Wednesday, Jul 22, 20 @ 7:25 am:

    @17%, police presence at funerals of shooting victims in Chicago is nearly routine. News articles on this latest shooting are unclear if squad cars were present. This isn’t the first time a funeral was shot up in the city and in past attendees pulled out guns and shot back. The block parties that get shot up usually are memorial celebrations for shooting victims. It’s time someone talks to the average beat cop to get an idea of what they face.

    And not all violence interrupters are trusted by cops. The young lady who lost a few teeth and everyone initially rallied to her cause following the Columbus statue melee? She was dumb enough to post on her Facebook page a few videos bragging about breaking windows and looting and on the day she got punched she was doing her best to incite the crowd around her. The video now appears on multiple sites and no longer appears on hers.

    Enough already.


  142. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jul 22, 20 @ 7:30 am:

    - Louis G Atsaves -

    Supporting police violence?

    Suppressing name tags and badges?

    This…

    === take the leash off the police department she controls and let them finally restore some semblance of order.===

    … written *by* - Louis G Atsaves -?

    When you moving *your work* out of such a dangerous city?


  143. - Pundent - Wednesday, Jul 22, 20 @ 8:31 am:

    =And not all violence interrupters are trusted by cops.=

    So bust people up and sort out the good interrupters from the bad ones later?


  144. - 17% Solution - Wednesday, Jul 22, 20 @ 9:31 am:

    Even if the police know funerals might cause violence what can they do? They can only react to violence. They can monitor these things and get victims to the hospital faster I guess. They have the new shot spotter gun shot detection system which can help them get to the scene faster. But it only works if the gun is already shot. How about getting the gun to not shoot in the first place?
    People are working hard to proactively stop violence. That is my point. A murder that never happens is the best outcome. The money spent on the 175 federal agencies should be spent on preventing violence instead. To the groups already doing this.


  145. - 17% Solution - Wednesday, Jul 22, 20 @ 9:32 am:

    Even if the police know funerals might cause violence what can they do? They can only react to violence. They can monitor these things and get victims to the hospital faster I guess. They have the new shot spotter sonar which can help them get to the scene faster. But it only works if the gun is already shot.
    People are working hard to proactively stop violence. That is my point. A murder that never happens is the best outcome. The money spent on the 175 federal agencies should be spent on preventing violence instead. To the groups already doing this.


  146. - Louis G Atsaves - Wednesday, Jul 22, 20 @ 10:11 am:

    @Pundent, sorry for the delay in responding. I checked with a couple of clients who are police officers about the question you posed about violence interrupters. They both stated that a good violence interrupter will instruct the person being arrested to let them put the handcuffs on and they will deal with it at the station. Rather than inflame the situation, they defuse it. They both were adamant that one of the most dangerous situations police officers face on the street is trying to arrest someone while an angry crowd tries to stop it, grab the cop, hit the cop (some use skateboards) etc. all the while fighting the arrestee to get him/her into handcuffs. According to one of them, always an ugly situation.

    Most wear identifying T-shirts or shirts and are known by the local cops.

    With the young lady in question whose story is now being questioned, she filmed herself charging the police arresting a friend of hers on several occasions, yelling, swearing, screaming and ignored multiple requests or orders to step back. You can Google her name and find the video. One member of the media posted a tweet claiming she swung and punched the cop who then responded in kind. I guess we will get more info on that one down the road. She did brag on another video and posted several messages on her facebook page bragging about smashing windows and looting in earlier events, which isn’t the brightest thing to do.

    Should she have been hit at that moment? Was it justified? Time will tell I guess.

    In the heat of the moment when split decisions need to be made, not all decisions under those circumstances are the best ones.


  147. - Muddy trail - Wednesday, Jul 22, 20 @ 5:22 pm:

    == She did brag on another video and posted several messages on her facebook page bragging about smashing windows and looting in earlier events, which isn’t the brightest thing to do.==
    There is a video going around right wing Facebook sites that has a barely coherent woman talking about looting and they claim the woman is Miracle Boyd. Some people say it’s her and some say it isn’t. It sure doesn’t look anything like her.
    Some legal advice. Maybe don’t use your own name to say bad things about someone in a blog that aren’t necessarily true. You don’t want to be sued.


  148. - logic not emotion - Thursday, Jul 23, 20 @ 4:33 pm:

    Louis G Atsaves makes a lot of sense. Sad to see so many now lack common sense.


  149. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jul 23, 20 @ 4:41 pm:

    - logic not emotion -

    ===Louis G Atsaves makes a lot of sense. Sad to see so many now lack common sense.===

    LOL

    === take the leash off the police department she controls and let them finally restore some semblance of order.===

    Yeah, go with “that”


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