* Finke…
Rep. Mike Murphy, R-Springfield, a former restaurant owner, said during a briefing with state health officials Thursday that lawmakers were told private gatherings and universities pose a bigger transmission problem than bars and restaurants. He, too, wants to see the data Pritzker is using to determine the mitigations.
Pritzker has said that information will be made available early next week. He said it’s taken time to compile records from nearly 100 separate local health agencies.
Murphy said if “it proved to be that restaurants and bars were the reason why we cannot control the spread of this, yes I would (support the mitigations). But I haven’t seen that proved, and I’m not sure they have it.”
“There has been no data that says there has been an outbreak linked to bars and restaurants,” Bourne added.
* I told subscribers about this earlier today, but it’s important enough that I think we should go over it here now. This IDPH data is for Region 3 (which includes Springfield) through a couple weeks ago. Expect an update very soon…
“Other”…
‘Other’ means locations not selected from the 37 standard locations available to the contact tracing workers. These locations include vacation, frat house, library, fire department and a variety of other venues and may include non- responses.
As you may recall, Rep. Tim Butler, who was also at yesterday’s HGOP press conference, said he had no idea how he caught the COVID. He’s therefore an “other.”
* Dr. Ezike yesterday…
There’s exposure data, and then there’s outbreak data. Those are two different pieces of data that are collected.
As the governor explained, the outbreak data will be where all of these individuals in the same space and time were diagnosed as cases and they’re connected to one another clearly. There’s a connection like ‘I was with you. And I developed symptoms, we were in this space,’ and these people were all connected. So that could be at a fraternity party, that could be at a wedding. Those were clearly identified outbreaks.
Most people who end up contracting the infection don’t know exactly who they got it from. They don’t say, ‘Oh, I was with so and so who was positive, that’s where I got it’. If they don’t have any idea of who they got it from, then that’s when you go into the contact tracing, in terms of identifying places that they were in the time that you would have contracted the virus.
And so from that data that you collect from all these people who were just like, ‘Well, I was here, I was there,’ it is consistent that where those people recollect that they were in the time, were bars and restaurants. Obviously, if people were in school, they will say school people who were at work will say work.
So, we already told you we’re not the ones who are going to be closing school, we’re not going to tell people not to go to work. We have to operate in the place that we can operate. And there you have, sitting there, bars and restaurants coming up time after time in the exposure sites that people were before they contracted the virus.
…Adding… IDPH Region 3…
And from Sangamon County…
But, yeah. Go hang out in a crowded indoor tavern.
- Chatham Resident - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 10:28 am:
Are State Buildings included in the “Other” or in the “Office” category? Or even “Workplace other than office”?
- NotRich - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 10:34 am:
The Governor and his staff act like they rule a monarchy, and have refused to share with other elected officials valuable info. they have brought this criticism on themselves.. he sure does seem to have a vendetta against the restaurants and their association. Yes, they are high on the list, but, add up other retail establishments and ‘workplace” and offices and they equal dining and bars.. why not go after those places and order them closed?
- Flyin' Elvis'-Utah Chapter - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 10:35 am:
Nothing short of mass casualites will get a large number of the populace to take this seriously.
Then, they will be screaming the loudest for government to “do something”.
- Manchester - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 10:37 am:
People seem only too willing to reject facts when it doesn’t align with their beliefs. Have people just become more selfish or am I imagining it?
- Just Me 2 - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 10:37 am:
NotRich - do you seriously believe the Governor has a personal vendetta against bars and restaurants? Just think about that for a minute.
- Candy Dogood - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 10:40 am:
===- NotRich - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 10:34 am:===
LOL. Okay. A state representative making an ignorant claim in public doesn’t mean the information to avoid their ignorant statement hasn’t been repeatedly made available to them.
Rep. Murphy is cherry picking data. He got that data from somewhere.
I am just shocked at how many proprietors of food in drink in this state are comfortable with their patrons dying from a deadly pandemic that they caught in their establishment.
- cermak_rd - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 10:42 am:
I don’t think people have become more selfish, human nature is human nature. I think we’ve lost the society pressures that used to keep people from being publicly selfish.
- Pundent - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 10:44 am:
= he sure does seem to have a vendetta against the restaurants and their association.=
If there’s a vendetta against restaurants and bars it’s shared by the CDC and numerous other doctors and scientists.
I do agree that the Governor can do more to be transparent with this data. I also believe that being transparent will do nothing to convince his opponents that he’s following the science. They aren’t lacking facts, they’re denying reality (and science). And I’ve yet to hear one of them advance an alternative plan to control the spread of the virus.
- tea_and_honey - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 10:44 am:
I hope that people don’t use that low college number to argue for bringing more students back to campus. I have to think the large % of online classes this fall has helped keep that number down.
- Pass the Butter - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 10:45 am:
Expecting people to know when and where they came in contact with an invisible danger is not how you stop said danger. I really do not know what the House Republicans are expecting from a gutted government workforce that is trying to save lives AND cater to these political demands.
The Legislature has an obligation to hold the Executive accountable, but this is distrust based on partisan bickering.
This is not the time to play to the base. Your constituents are harming their long-term health or dying. If there is a problem, identify it instead of just responding with, “I don’t believe you,” without anything to support that distrust. All you’re doing is fueling panic by expanding distrust in our front-line workers.
Good government is still good politics. Please do better.
- Jocko - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 10:46 am:
==he had no idea how he caught the COVID==
No idea? Is he Guy Pearce from ‘Memento’?
- Mr. Smith - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 10:46 am:
== add up other retail establishments and ‘workplace” and offices and they equal dining and bars.. why not go after those places and order them closed?==
Hmm. Can you see the most important words in that? ADD UP. And what is it that, almost by definition, that you can’t do when you are eating and drinking? WEAR A MASK.
In most other setting, you can wear a mask and do what you need to do there - shop, work, etc.
Do you find it impossible to believe that other elected officials can get information that is freely available from the CDC and other scientific and medical sources? Or is it that you (perhaps correctly) believe that some legislators are incapable of thinking their way out of a paper bag, much less obtaining commonly available information and adapting it to local circumstances?
- B Tuchman - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 10:47 am:
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face— forever. ”
George Orwell, 1984.
- Thomas Paine - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 10:51 am:
=== The Governor and his staff act like they rule a monarchy, and have refused to share with other elected officials valuable info. they have brought this criticism on themselves.. ===
The governor’s office should answer this question. its possible they are cocerned making the data avaiable will reduce cotact tracing candidness. But that concern seems secondary to compliance
=== why not go after those places and order them closed? ===
That is in the mitigation plan if we go backward even further, but the short answer seems to be “science.” People Must take their masks off at some poimt in a bar or rstaurant.
That said, given what Dr. Langdon admitted about the aerosol spread in AC indoors, we ought to be requiring masks at all times in offices. Right now, people are only masking within six feet of each other. That means someone who is infected and asymptomatic might be spewing virus into the air all day long, for days. That is a big problem.
- Arock - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 10:51 am:
I don’t like the fact that bars and restaurants are combined as they can in many cases be two totally different scenarios on how people interact. While a understand the higher risk associated with places where mask are not worn all the time I would think that places that are more bar oriented would push up the numbers in the bar/restaurant category.
- PK - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 10:51 am:
So the metric with the most labeled “Other” would be better described as “unknown.” And “bar/restaurant” equates fine dining with karaoke and alcohol. Since the metric mania is not shown here by county/region, “other” appears willfully ignorant of differences between “bar” and “restaurant.”
- ESR - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 10:52 am:
“we’re not going to tell people not to go to work. “
Meanwhile, the masses of waiters and bartenders filing for unemployment again (comprising many of the newly reported skyrocketing claims in IL, while most states’ claims are declining) read this and scratch their heads after being told not to go to work.
- Montrose - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 10:59 am:
I have to take a mask off to either eat or drink, so folks that seem to think we would see some huge gap between bars and restaurants if that data is disaggregated would be, I think, very disappointed.
Separately, the relatively low infection rates in homes seems to go against Lightfoot’s narrative that those spaces are the driver. I know this isn’t Chicago data, but I doubt you are going to see different patterns between the two geographies.
- walker - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 11:02 am:
Please tell me how you eat and drink while wearing a mask.
All the rest, including “other”. allow us to take that proven protective measure.
- TheInvisibleMan - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 11:05 am:
===if that data is disaggregated===
This is just a rehash of the mindset that started when the regions were defined. No matter what, those who oppose doing anything are going to jump to the next lower delineation and use that as how things should be done.
When the state stay at home order was issued in March, the rural areas complained they didn’t want to be included with chicago. When counties were grouped into regions, people in one county didn’t want to be grouped with the others.
These aren’t people looking for more data, they are looking for a way to complain about something they will always disagree with no matter where the delineation is placed.
This behavior is about as close to being a textbook example of moving the goalposts as is possible - with the only exception being actually moving goalposts in a game that uses goalposts to keep score.
- Jibba - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 11:09 am:
Let’s be honest. The only reason these people want to “see the data” is to find some loophole. If you give them some data, they will only want more data. That said, I have no problem making his entire list of outbreaks public.
For those who wonder why other types of places like retail haven’t been closed, they will be eventually. Bars and restaurants are the first phase of mitigation because they are not essential and are high on the exposure list.
- cermak_rd - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 11:10 am:
Curiously most of the din about the restaurants is coming from the owner class and not from the waitstaff, buss crew, cooks, bartenders etc. It might be interesting to hear from those folks.
- Club J - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 11:25 am:
I just finished watching the press conference with the Republican leaders and the Restaurant and Bar owners in Springfield. Just a few things I took away from all that and there was a lot said.
Mike Murphy suggests the Governor isn’t releasing information because he needs time to massage it to fit his political science.
Steve McClure feels Dr. Ezike couldn’t handle his softball questions yesterday because she’s not even sure what science the Governor is using.
All the Bars and Restaurants are 100% in compliance with the guidelines of Phase 4. Nothing was said about those who DeVore has told to open and do has they please.
Lastly it was said this isn’t political. It’s not Republicans vs. Democrats at all. The last speaker was Alderman Chuck Redpath who said the City of Springfield isn’t doing anything to back the Governor, but there are some people on the other side of the Council who think differently. Hmmm. Sounds political to me.
- cermak_rd - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 11:30 am:
Montrose,
I would wager in the city of Chicago you have more multi-generation households as well as apartments with sharing of common areas (e.g. laundry, foyers, mailarea). That would tend to facilitate household spread. Household spread is also a main driver of infection in Germany (acc article up today on dw.com).
- Publius - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 11:31 am:
If I am doing the right thing and I find out that I got it because someone was eating inside against IDPH guidelines. I would be left with no other choice to sue the owner for not following the order. They have a choice and they can be held responsible in court. I would also sue anyone who has publically said they won’t enforce it.
- TinyDancer(FKASue) - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 11:31 am:
I just don’t get it.
Ethics aside……How is facilitating the death of your own voters a winning strategy?
- truthteller - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 11:38 am:
when COVID was turned into a political weapon, this outcome was predictable. On one hand we have the republican party morphed into the DEATH PARTY and will no issues of killing americans vs the democratic party trying to get thru pandemic with fewer deaths. In the end, this situation has been made out of control by the republicans, in Illinois and in DC.
- Jibba - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 11:50 am:
But I haven’t seen that proved…to my satisfaction.
Fixed it for you.
“There has been no data that says there has been an outbreak linked to bars and restaurants,” Bourne added.
Why aren’t politicians ashamed to say such clearly untrue things?
- Ducky LaMoore - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 11:55 am:
I can just see the daytime commercials that will be running in like 3 years, “Are you a resident of Illinois? Did you or someone you know become ill from dining out during the Covid 19 pandemic? You may be entitled to compensation…”
- Leigh John-Ella - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 12:03 pm:
Maybe the IL GOP lawmakers simply have never been given the link to the IDPH website. Maybe they don’t know how to use the internet.
What’s frightening is you are now seeing Republicans in places, Utah for example, who have done a 180 and are now begging the community for compliance as their hospitals fill up and they have to plan for how to prioritize who will and won’t get care.
And before you say it can’t happen here, look at the Region 3 ICU bed space and the ongoing infection rate.
https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/10/25/with-coronavirus-cases/
https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/10/20/21525077/utah-coronavirus-new-cases-pandemic-deaths-hospitalizations-cases-over-1000
- Stritz - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 12:07 pm:
Explanation please…does this graph say the entire restaurant industry will be closed because of 84 exposures?
- Three Dimensional Checkers - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 12:09 pm:
Our contact tracing is horrible in the State, City, and I suspect everywhere in the country. There could be many more outbreaks from restaurants than we know because people just don’t answer public health employees after they get the coronavirus. There have been great public information campaigns about mask wearing and hand washing. I think there should be the same campaign for answering contact tracers if you test positive
- thoughts matter - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 12:10 pm:
I believe the charts and the numbers. My problem is that I’m not going to be able to name every single place I’ve been in 14 days if I ever test positive. So I will never know where I would have gotten it. Because of some family members medical issues, I’ve been places the last few weeks I don’t normally go. Been around people I’m not normally around. As have these family members. Those family members are tested fairly regularly and they continue to be negative, so that’s a good sign.
A different relative - that I haven’t around for a couple months - was tested before an outpatient procedure. She’s positive, no symptoms and has no idea where she may have been exposed.
Truthfully we all need to be tested. My workplace should arrange for every single employee to be tested weekly rather than rely on temp checks. But they won’t and since they continue to throw up roadblocks to going to get tested without symptoms ( required time off until results) we will all end up getting it and exposing others.
- Huh? - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 12:16 pm:
Is eating out at a bar and/or restaurant a necessity? Or a luxury?
If you consider dining out a necessity, why is it so? What is it that requires you to dine indoors? Why can’t you pick up the food and go home?
To me, going to a bar or restaurant is a luxury that I can do with out.
- Publius - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 12:33 pm:
Maybe Sarah Palin was right about the death panels after all.
- Chatham Resident - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 12:35 pm:
==Truthfully we all need to be tested. My workplace should arrange for every single employee to be tested weekly rather than rely on temp checks. ==
I agree. There needs to be a way to provide weekly testing (in addition to the daily temp checks) to all State employees back in the offices, regardless of whether or not you have symptoms.
- Chatham Resident - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 12:39 pm:
==I do agree that the Governor can do more to be transparent with this data. I also believe that being transparent will do nothing to convince his opponents that he’s following the science.==
I wonder if things like attorney-client privilege, work product, proprietary info, etc. was playing a role in keeping the outbreak data confidential.
Although I don’t patronize bars and restaurants during this time (and I don’t patronize bars as I have an aversion to alcohol and its glorification for personal reasons), I would like to know what outbreaks have occurred in my community, and if so what businesses were affected. So my shopping dollars can temporarily go elsewhere.
- Give Us Barabbas - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 12:41 pm:
I’m expecting (and hoping) the hammer comes out after the election, regarding pulling liquor licenses for the scofflaw establishments. The mask deniers and defiers are solipsists; they can’t be made to care about the health and safety of “others”. You only reach them by making it personal. That means protecting the good, rule-following business from the unfair competition of scofflaw businesses. And that means praising and celebrating staff and clerks who deny service to maskless customers. As long as they can bully their way into a business and threaten a minimum-wage low level staffer who doesn’t have a manager back-stopping them, you are not going to get the level of compliance enforcement you need.
- Jibba - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 12:54 pm:
===does this graph say the entire restaurant industry will be closed because of 84 exposures?==
No, because they can stay open for carry out. And no, because this is not a comprehensive list of all cases. Consider this as a sample of known exposure locations, kinda like an opinion poll. Schools and restaurants make up nearly half the potential exposure locations. The first step is go to on-line learning and close indoor seating. If that doesn’t work, more steps are needed.
- Dotnonymous - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 1:17 pm:
“It might be interesting to hear from those folks.”
Capitalism is not listening…on purpose.
- Liandro - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 1:49 pm:
So, let’s talk about those numbers for a bit.
1. Equating bars and restaurants is distortion. Rich uses “packed tavern” as his example for a reason: it’s considerably more dangerous in a “packed tavern” than a spaced-out restaurant…as anyone who has visited both could tell you. But, they are lumped together for pursuasive effect. The reality is they are different environments, and patrons (especially inebriated ones) widely differ in their willingness to follow precautions.
2. Active people–who are more likely to get COVID in the first place–are also more likely to eat out. Correlation is not causation. People attending rallies, people attending events they are more likely to lie about (lying during contact tracing is a well known problem), people just out generally–all of them can and do catch the virus during those activities.
Again, a vast number of people who leave the house eat out are likely to have eaten out over a two week period. It is a unifying theme among active American people in general.
3. If restaurants were such a blazing hotspot of recirculating virus air, then employees would be getting it more. But no, employees are bringing it INTO restaurants from elsewhere, forcing mass quarantines, often without even spreading it to those other employees.
I’ve had three employees test positive (all attend high school or college) since March. All of them left without spreading it to any other employees (and we work inches from each other). I had to shut down due to how many were on quarantine, yet none of those exposed individuals (including myself) ever caught it–with much testing to verify.
That experience is also what I’m hearing from other restaurateurs (I won’t speak for bar owners, btw; wildly different environment).
4. Which brings me to my last point, one that many others have pointed out: the resurgence doesn’t match up with restaurant openings. It matches up with the school year, flu season, and now with cooler temps. Putting the brunt of mitigation on restaurants has only made numbers go higher–one almost suspects the tactic of targeting restaurants isn’t working?
So, as numbers keep going up, and people keep dying, at some point we should all realize that correlation does not necessarily equal causation. It seems logical that some small percentage of spread is actually being mitigated, sure; it’s also becoming clear that restaurants are not anywhere close to a primary cause of spread that this correlation chart is being used to suggest.
Put another way: we’ve tried closing down restaurants, and that doesn’t solve the problem. Hasn’t come close. Let’s acknowledge our solution isn’t working.
Note: my companies don’t rely on indoor dining, so whatever bias I may have isn’t financially driven.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 2:01 pm:
===Put another way: we’ve tried closing down restaurants, and that doesn’t solve the problem===
It got the Metro East and Will/K3 counties out of mitigation, genius.
- Liandro - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 2:12 pm:
Did it? I’ve read a bit on that, and also some of studies IDPH refers to in their recent briefings, and they all remind us of something: correlation does not equal causation. If it was so incredibly effective, why is it suddenly not? You seem so certain, yet even the relevant studies aren’t certain.
Mitigation comes with a number of things: more active public health awareness and information, more active regional agencies, more careful citizens, more awareness around large events.
You’ve decided restaurant mitigations are part of the key…but that success isn’t being replicated in the slightest, anywhere. So even if your right, even if we’re both right, we’re also both in the same position: our solutions aren’t working. Doesn’t take a “genius” to see that.
My dad currently has the virus. He’s definitely high risk and is in a medical facility. I’m pretty deeply invested in solutions that work. This ain’t it.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 2:14 pm:
===You’ve decided===
I haven’t decided anything. And let’s hear your solutions, Einstein.
- Rasselas - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 2:19 pm:
Keep in mind that these data are totals, not rates. Since most people are avoiding restaurants, but almost everyone is going to something retail (groceries, etc.), the bar/restaurant numbers really pop out at you.
- Jocko - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 2:22 pm:
==our solutions aren’t working.==
translation: I would prefer to not follow CDC recommendations and take no responsibility for the failed outcome.
- thisjustinagain - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 2:27 pm:
Giving the Covidiots the numbers won’t change a thing; they’ll still blab about “rights” and “facts” when the science is beating them over the head. And in case they didn’t notice, our Governor is in the middle of dealing with a pandemic, and has more to deal with that Covidiots demanding numbers they won’t believe anyway.
- Norseman - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 2:43 pm:
=== And let’s hear your solutions, Einstein. ===
Yes, we hear a lot of rhetoric out of the death party, but we hear no solutions to stop or even slow the spread of Covid. We get nothing. Instead of pretending this is about data, just admit that it’s not about health. It’s about politics and money.
- Jibba - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 2:44 pm:
===Correlation is not causation===
True, but are you planning on waiting 2 years for peer-reviewed studies to determine specific causation? People are dying, so solutions are needed now. You have to use your logic in addition to the limited data you have.
===All of them left without spreading it to any other employees (and we work inches from each other).===
How do you know? Did you test everybody?
===Mitigation comes with a number of things===
Yup, and restaurants are near the top of the list. More things can join if that doesn’t work (I suggest schools too). Who do you volunteer to be on the front line instead of yourself?
- Pundent - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 3:11 pm:
If you’re going to disagree with the scientists view on how we can mitigate the spread of disease, the least you can do is identify the alternative measures that we should be taking. Otherwise it becomes quite clear that you are disagreeing with what the scientists are concluding simply because you don’t like the consequences.
- ArchPundit - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 3:20 pm:
I wouldn’t be surprised if a bar is worse than a restaurant, but they are most commonly patronized businesses where masks are not used and cannot be used for the entire visit.
I’m baffled that this basic thing is not grasped. Given aerosol spread a business where people are present for some time and maskless is going to be higher risk than others.
- Jibba - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 3:32 pm:
I’m baffled that this basic thing is not grasped. ===
Right on. You don’t have to know the exact locations to know how to fight this thing. We know how it is transmitted. Stamp out the flare ups by first tightening down on nonessential places where people are unmasked indoors. Doesn’t take a genius.
- Skeptic - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 3:38 pm:
“I’m not going to be able to name every single place I’ve been in 14 days” Well, it’s a free country, feel free to track yourself.
“Equating bars and restaurants is distortion.” Ok then, define a bar and then define a restaurant in such a way that there isn’t significant cross-over.
- Skeptic - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 3:41 pm:
Edit: “feel free to track yourself. I do.”
- Beer 30 - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 3:44 pm:
— dying from a deadly—
Maybe because they aren’t perhaps? Cases are skyrocketing while mortality remains flat.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 3:50 pm:
===while mortality remains flat===
It’s been what… 7 months? After all this time you haven’t figured out three things? 1) Deaths are a lagging indicator; 2) New treatment/mask wearing has reduced the number of deaths; 3) Getting this disease can mess you up bad with or without dying.
- CEA - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 3:54 pm:
Masks reduce COVID transmission risk. You can’t eat or drink with a mask on. That makes indoor dining and drinking a higher risk than indoor working or indoor learning or indoor shopping. As someone who went to restaurants and bars daily before the pandemic and has many friends in the service and hospitality industries, I wish this were not the case, but it is. I don’t see how you, I, the Governor, or anyone else can get around that basic reality.
- Demoralized - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 4:00 pm:
==There has been no data that says there has been an outbreak linked to bars and restaurants==
Umm, Rep. Bourne. I can give you a list of outbreaks that have occured in bars and restaurants in Springfield alone during the course of the pandemic.
- MyTwoCents - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 4:39 pm:
Beer 30, I’d give this New York Times article a read, it explains the various reasons why the mortality rates have been dropping:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/29/health/Covid-survival-rates.html
- Shytown - Friday, Oct 30, 20 @ 4:55 pm:
To the restaurant types that are coming onto this post to throw shade on Rich, the numbers and the governor need to face reality. Your places of establishment are a major contributor to the spread of this virus. This is not just a thing in Illinois. I understand it’s taking money out of your pocket and it is a really crappy situation. But this thing will get 1000 times worse if we don’t mitigate the spread right now. And that includes closing down indoor dining where this thing spreads.