* From Red State Secession…
Brown County and Hardin County will vote November this year on splitting Illinois into two states, according to a map released by organizers today. The referendums are non-binding. Two townships in the northeastern corner of Madison County will also vote on such referendums. County clerks had verified earlier this month that the organizers had submitted enough valid signatures to force the questions onto the ballot.
If these areas vote in favor of the referendums, they will join 24 conservative counties in southern and central Illinois that have voted in favor of this idea in the last couple of years. The referendums ask voters “Shall the board of your county correspond with the boards of the other counties of Illinois outside of Cook County about the possibility of separating from Cook County to form a new state, and to seek admission to the Union as such, subject to the approval of the people?”
Illinois state legislators introduced legislation regarding the idea, and were granted a hearing, but the bill failed to clear the legislative committee. There would be financial benefits to northern Illinois to allow downstate Illinois to go, because these counties are a drain on the state budget. Yet, a financial comparison of rural Illinois counties to rural Indiana counties shows that incomes are the same. Apparently the beneficial effect of state spending that Illinois bestows on these counties is canceled out by the negative effect of Illinois taxes and regulation.
State legislators in Kentucky and Missouri have expressed interest to the organizers about acquiring downstate Illinois by moving a state border, but have not taken action. The most recent relocation of a state border was in 1999 when the Nebraska/Missouri border was adjusted slightly to accommodate changes in the course of a river, but two whole counties switched states after West Virginia became a state in 1863.
Brown County has a population of not quite 7,000. Hardin County’s population is less than 4,000.
I’ve asked Darren Bailey’s campaign for comment.
…Adding… Can’t help but wonder how long it will now take him to double down on his original take…
Also, there are plenty of nice Chicago neighborhoods outside of the lakefront and downtown.
*** UPDATE 1 *** From Joe DeBose at the Bailey campaign…
“Many people across Illinois are struggling under JB Pritzker’s negligent watch. Darren Bailey will fight to make Illinois safe and affordable for everyone, not just the elites.”
Not sure how that answers my question, but whatevs.
*** UPDATE 2 *** Natalie Edelstein at the Pritzker campaign…
For someone who has only passed two bills throughout his entire tenure in office, you’d think Darren Bailey would be more proud of his only legislative proposal to ever make the news. Bailey introduced serious legislation to separate Chicago from the rest of Illinois and even claimed he would put his Lieutenant Governor in charge of the region. His latest watered down walk back of his offensive comments should be seen for exactly what they are: yet another lie to get elected.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 11:00 am:
They should just move to Indiana, Kentucky, Missouri, Iowa, or Wisconsin.
Why won’t they?
This is comically sad. It’s like folks want to be the caricature that mocks them… for real.
- High Socks - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 11:03 am:
I don’t have the chops, but I wish someone with a strong understanding of economics would explain to these folks that they are asking to create the poorest state in the nation.
- Ron Burgundy - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 11:07 am:
To the folks pushing these meaningless and nonsensical votes - I am laughing at you. This is pointless, and you would be voting to cut your noses off to spite your face. How about actually helping your people instead of chest thumping?
- vern - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 11:08 am:
I’m pretty surprised “Red State Secession” acknowledges the fiscal reality on this one. Usually it’s like pulling teeth trying to convince secessionists that the money actually flows north-to-south.
I also wonder why they think the collar counties would be on board with this. They’re proposing to cut off Metra service, eliminate state contributions to schools, and blow up the University of Illinois system. Doesn’t sound like a winning message in DuPage, Lake or Will to me.
- Jibba - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 11:08 am:
There aren’t enough people to fill out a congressional district in those counties, never mind a state.
- West Side the Best Side - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 11:09 am:
That would be a big “Yes” vote for me. Sadly, I don’t think it will appear on my ballot in Cook County.And
- West Side the Best Side - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 11:11 am:
Forget the “And.” Have no idea how that appeared .
- Chicago Cynic - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 11:15 am:
Please let these tax money leaches go. Go create a state to make Mississippi look rich. Go with God. Don’t let the door hit you on the backside.
- Kippax Blue - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 11:16 am:
Sounds like a great idea, as long as the citizens of DC and Puerto Rico have a equal chance for statehood. Allow California to become 3-5 new states as well. And let’s build a wall— and Make Dixienois pay for it.
- MisterJayEm - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 11:20 am:
Pretty sure the collar counties would have zero interest in subsidizing a downstate Confederacy all by themselves.
– MrJM
- H-W - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 11:21 am:
Here is an interesting perspective on downstate severing ties with Chicagoland. The picture tells it all.
https://www.farmweeknow.com/policy/state/state-tax-dollars-benefit-downstate-region-more-than-others/article_9207435a-ef0f-11eb-8280-ab69354d438c.html
- DuPage Dad - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 11:22 am:
I’m in favor of this purely so we don’t continue to send more tax dollars downstate than they generate. If they want to pay for everything themselves, so be it, let the wealth stay where it is generated (or not generated).
An utterly ridiculous endeavor, though, to say the least.
- don the legend - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 11:25 am:
==I’ve asked Darren Bailey’s campaign for comment.==
IF he comments it can’t help but be classic.
- Michelle Flaherty - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 11:27 am:
The party of Lincoln and Reagan has become the party of secession and building walls. Sad.
- Montrose - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 11:27 am:
“State legislators in Kentucky and Missouri have expressed interest to the organizers about acquiring downstate Illinois by moving a state border, but have not taken action.”
And what action would they take? Planting a Kentucky/Missouri flag in Naperville?
- 48th Ward Heel - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 11:33 am:
So it’s a “kick out Cook County” week and not a “save our prisons from liberal layoffs” week down there, huh
- Stix Hix - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 11:38 am:
Will someone please tell the folks in Brown County that for every dollar they send to the state they receive $4.52 back? Hardin County $3.52?
Source:
https://opensiuc.lib.siu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1059&context=ppi_papers
- DuPage - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 11:39 am:
===The most recent relocation of a state border was in 1999 when the Nebraska/Missouri border was adjusted slightly to accommodate changes in the course of a river…===
A few weeks ago, I was surprised to learn that a small part of southern Illinois is west of the Mississippi. The river changed course, but the border was deemed to be along the old route of the river.
- Lefty Lefty - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 11:43 am:
One of the most annoying aspects of the “New Right” (trying to be civil here) is their abandonment of any concern/acknowledgement for their fellow citizens in the same jurisdiction who don’t agree with them politically.
What happens to the other side, whether it’s 49% or 4.9%, in this scenario where the state of Redillinois is created? Purity tests? Banishment? Red and blue schools, separate but equal?
- MisterJayEm - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 11:46 am:
“Some parts of the largest city in the state may not be hellholes.” — The GOP nominee for governor, tacking to the center.
- Demoralized - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 11:47 am:
These sorts of things have got to be one of the stupidest endeavors around. Somebody always has a grievance and they think solving their grievance means taking their ball and going home. These people complain about not being represented, failing to understand that representation involves representing the people. Illinois’ representation in the General Assembly is representation of the majority of the people. These people want the minority to overrule the majority.
Though part of me says let them go and see how their “state” looks with the income they would generate to run a government.
- Baloneymous - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 11:52 am:
Word salad to still basically say the same thing. He’s an oddball.
- vern - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 11:58 am:
To the update, I wonder how many Chicago neighborhoods Bailey has actually been to. It’s gotta be less than half of the 77 right? Maybe even less than 10?
- StateEmployeeThatIsNotInAFSCME - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 12:02 pm:
==Brown County and Hardin County ==
From the Western and Southern Blocs respectively.
- Lurker - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 12:02 pm:
I can’t believe I’m saying this but….
The real downside is that the GOP would have the majority in the US senate. And that scares me because this GOP nationally is off the rails.
But otherwise, meh, enjoy being the worse state in the union.
- StateEmployeeThatIsNotInAFSCME - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 12:03 pm:
==A few weeks ago, I was surprised to learn that a small part of southern Illinois is west of the Mississippi.==
And it’s an important part of southern Illinois–Kaskaskia, that is. The territorial and original state capitol.
- SAP - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 12:07 pm:
==Will someone please tell the folks in Brown County that for every dollar they send to the state they receive $4.52 back? Hardin County $3.52?==
I don’t think it’s about the money for these rocket surgeons.
- In 630 - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 12:08 pm:
==Doesn’t sound like a winning message in DuPage, Lake or Will to me.==
Or any of the more populated counties outside the northeast part.
I’m sure eventually somewhere someone smarter than I am will figure out how to give these rural areas the autonomy they say they want- to have their weird, infrastructure-less, culturally isolated space.
- Rudy’s teeth - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 12:13 pm:
Does Candidate Bailey have time to grow a mullet—business in the front and party in the back?
- Amalia - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 12:16 pm:
You know how people complain that xyz candidate has not been to a county? well clearly Darren Bailey has no idea what Chicago neighborhoods are like because as a lifelong Cook County resident, that description of Chicago ain’t it.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 12:16 pm:
I think Bailey just both sides his take on the city.
“There’s good people on both sides” immediately comes to mind, which is terribly odd when saying a city is awful, so who/where/what exactly is the good and bad… and why.
Then again, a guy who wanted She-Caw-Go as it’s own state AND… AND… felt an ambassador type person is needed for She-Caw-Go if he were elected.
Put it all together, it makes sense. It’s ugly, but…
- Amalia - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 12:21 pm:
people in Chicago should start posting photos, postcard from Hellhole.
- Amalia - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 12:22 pm:
I forgot to add on Facebook, as I’ve not see that there. showing my age.
- Da big bad wolf - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 12:25 pm:
A split might work if the border went through Chicago and both new states got a piece of the rich area that funds everyone else. I’m not sure why the geniuses decided the border should be Cook County.
- TheInvisibleMan - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 12:27 pm:
–figure out how to give these rural areas the autonomy they say they want–
You are taking them literally.
You will never be able to give them what they want. People like that *want* to be able to blame someone else for all of their problems. There will always be something outside of themselves preventing them from being what they want to be.
To solve the issue, we have to address, teach and reinforce the concept of ‘locus of control’ from early childhood to early adulthood. We are very bad at doing that right now.
- Big Dipper - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 12:37 pm:
So if you live in a relatively safe area Bailey thinks you are per se privileged?
- G'Kar - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 12:39 pm:
==A few weeks ago, I was surprised to learn that a small part of southern Illinois is west of the Mississippi.==
My wife’s family still owns Illinois farmland West of the Mississippi River.
To the post:
==a financial comparison of rural Illinois counties to rural Indiana counties shows that incomes are the same.==
Evidence for this? Also, what is the definition of “rural counties?” Do the founders of this movement include DuPage county as “rural?”
- SpfldWestsider - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 12:47 pm:
Oh, we’re back to this topic eh?
Even IF this were to “pass”, I HIGHLY doubt that Kane, Will, DuPage, Lake and Kendall volunteer to stick around to REALLY pay for Illinois. They’d probably want to leave with Chicago/Cook.
So, yeah. You THINK you’re “sticking it to the man”, when in actuality it’s the inverse.
Stay classy, downstate!
BTW: IL would still be on the hook for all pensions owed (even to Chicago residents!) up to the date of separation, as well as all other expenses so just guess what that tax rate is going to have to be?
- ZC - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 12:50 pm:
I think a subtext of this is these voters look everywhere around them - Iowa, Kentucky, Indiana, Wisconsin - and they see “their people” in charge. So they’re kind of bitter; “why not us?” People are funny. They’ll trade a lot of standard of living for perceived superior social status.
But really if political-ideological descriptive representation matters *that* much, respectfully, they should vote with their feet and just leave.
- Vote Quimby - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 12:50 pm:
Has there been a CapFax question of the day for the name of the new state? I would have to think of some new ones to avoid violating Rich’s terms of service.
- Our Joe - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 12:51 pm:
The new state of Dixienois will probably need to tax retirement and pension income to stay afloat. Maybe that will give a moment’s pause to these rural, white and old counties. But likely not.
- Huh? - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 12:52 pm:
“So if you live in a relatively safe area Bailey thinks you are per se privileged?”
What is interesting about this map is that some of the most rural areas are not very safe.
https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/il/crime#
- TheInvisibleMan - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 1:09 pm:
–Maybe that will give a moment’s pause to these rural, white and old counties.–
Spoiler, it won’t. It will just be another thing to blame on someone else.
Then the ‘new’ state will start to fracture, and so on, and so on.
The point of the recent incarnations of these movements is to cause division and instability. It’s not a coincidence these movements often don’t know anything about finances of their proposed states, because that’s not the goal. These are coordinated events in many states, although we sometimes miss the bigger picture here by the focus on only events happening in Illinois.
Maryland, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Minnesota, Nevada, New York, Oregon, and Washington have all had recent campaigns push for similar actions. Interestingly, many of these states even have their own “[Your State Here] Policy Institute”
- Homebody - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 1:10 pm:
===Darren Bailey will fight to make Illinois safe and affordable for everyone, not just the elites.===
Every journalist is committing malpractice by printing these quotes from Republicans unless it is followed by a sentence along the lines of “When asked for specifics, the spokesperson said ________”
- thisjustinagain - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 1:44 pm:
Points to ponder:
1. People cannot afford to move from Illinois; that’s why they are still here. Some southern counties are high-poverty.
2. Make Chicago it’s own county; State laws have tacitly allowed this for decades with the famous “cities over a population amount only Chicago has’ clauses.
3. Is there even a legal mechanism for an Illinois county to de-annex from Illinois and join another State? A border adjustment along a river isn’t the same thing.
- Demoralized - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 1:46 pm:
==People cannot afford to move from Illinois; that’s why they are still here==
Don’t speak for me or anyone else. “People” could still be here because they like it here. Might want to “ponder” that.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 1:47 pm:
===Points to ponder:
1. People cannot afford to move from Illinois;===
This is absurd.
Everyplace else is Shangri-La
Better jobs, no crime, lower taxes, better housing…
Sorry. Nope. No.
It’s a free country. Vote with your feet.
- Socially DIstant watcher - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 1:50 pm:
The US Constitution, which some Republicans claim to follow when it’s convenient for them, says those county resolutions are meaningless. A state can’t be divided into a new state without approval of the legislature.
- workingfromhome - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 1:54 pm:
If only my bank account was more reflective of my “elite” status.
- OneMan - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 1:58 pm:
== 1. People cannot afford to move from Illinois; that’s why they are still here. Some southern counties are high-poverty. ==
So people can’t afford the higher cost of living in other states, is that what you are saying? Perhaps because of lower wages in other states, is that it?
== 2. Make Chicago it’s own county; State laws have tacitly allowed this for decades with the famous “cities over a population amount only Chicago has’ clauses. ==
Interesting idea. Out of curiosity, do you live in Cook County? It would seem there would be greater chunks of ‘greater Cook County’ managed by the Cook County Forest Preserve (one of the best things Cook County ever did, IMHO). Would you suggest those areas be developed?
Would the remainder of Cook County be a single county or multiple counties? That way, the nicer parts of Cook didn’t have southern Cook County (where I grew up) dragging them down with higher poverty rates.
- JS Mill - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 2:03 pm:
First and foremost, one group of counties cannot “kick” another county out of the state of Illinois.
At best they could secede, but I do not see anything in the Illinois constitution that allows this.
I would support the idea of the complainers leaving albeit they get the same treatment as Washington DC, meaning no senators. I am just sick of these pandering goobers going on about the fact that my state tax dollars prop up their communities.
If they don’t like the taxes they are free to go to their county board and school board and get them top drop their tax rates and levies. Most of the taxes are levied by schools and counties not the state. If they want illiterate children and zero county level services, who am I to stand in their way.
The bailey campaign is just not a serious operation. Bailey likes to use the “elites” dog whistle but I would like to hear him define the term or at least his usage. Me thinks he would fall into that category as a socialist millionaire.
- New Day - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 2:14 pm:
OMG, please tell me I’m not the only one to notice the unfortunate salute Bailey is inadvertently making.
And yea, DeBose. Umm, no. Not useful in the slightest.
- Skeptic - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 2:31 pm:
“There aren’t enough people to fill out a congressional district in those counties, never mind a state.” But they’d be guaranteed 2 Senators. It’s still a bad idea of course
- MisterJayEm - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 2:51 pm:
“inadvertently”
– MrJM
- Jibba - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 3:05 pm:
==rocket surgeons==
Spit take.
- Rudy’s teeth - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 3:07 pm:
Would make a considerable donation to the Chicago Food Depository to see Candidate Bailey walk the 606 trail on the Northwest side of Chicago.
The trail, 2.7 miles in length, is located between Ashland and Ridgeway. Time to lace up your walking shoes, Darren.
- Beecher - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 3:23 pm:
Brown County’s population would be less than 5000 without the state money building and maintaining the prison and funding infrastructure for the county’s major employer.
- Arsenal - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 3:24 pm:
== 1. People cannot afford to move from Illinois; that’s why they are still here. Some southern counties are high-poverty. ==
This is undeniably true, but it also undercuts the “grass is greener in (Conservative Paradise du jour)” argument.
- don the legend - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 3:50 pm:
1. People cannot afford to move from Illinois; that’s why they are still here.
Sure, only the rich move.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 4:21 pm:
You are all mad at Bailey, because he tells it like it is. Chicago is a hell hole full of 🐒 pox and libatards
- Kippax Blue - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 4:50 pm:
Mad at Bailey? Hardly. I sincerely hope he runs for governor of Dixienois. What a hoot. Secede and become a burden on Indiana. Please.
- Jibba - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 5:14 pm:
As I’ve said before, I’d rather go with Cook County than stay with the Eastern Bloc and Dixienois.
I think they’d be surprised to find themselves in the vast minority being kicked out rather than doing the kicking.
- Huh? - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 5:30 pm:
Anon @ 4:21 beetle “tells it like it is” just like tramp.
Um. Sure. If that’s what you think. Um. No.
The majority of what comes out of beetle’s mouth cannot be fact checked as truthful.
To claim Chicago is a “hell hole” ignores the vast areas of the city which are safe, sanitary, and secure. The news we see on TV and read in the papers have a maxim, “If it bleeds, it ledes”. We are lead to believe our community is crime ridden and unsafe. When the truth is more nuanced.
These referenda to secede portions of the state are useless exercises to pander to an audience of a few. The cost of breaking away from the rest of the State would bankrupt the secessionists.
- Ares - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 6:10 pm:
Don’t be surprised if you see calls in future years for the southern states to break up into pieces, to maintain an artificial Senate majority, and to force a constitutional convention. It may / may not be allowed under the law, but would still generate a lot of press.
- Proud Sucker - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 7:13 pm:
One way you can tell me that you are not from or are not truly concerned to learn about Chicago is to tell me about the lake front.
As kids we’d ride our bikes through Edgewater to Hollywood Beach then down the Lakefont Trail to Foster Avenue Beach sometimes going past North Avenue Beach all the way to Oak Street Beach. Many times we’d ride back through Lincoln Park and Lakeview on our way home to Lincoln Square. Never saw this lake front to which he refers.
Also, who lives on the loop? Semantics I suppose.
- Fivegreenleaves - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 7:56 pm:
We had one of those votes in my county (southern Illinois) that would cut the Chicagoland area out of Illinois. I voted against it. I’m sad to say I was outnumbered 2 to 1.
- Fivegreenleaves - Tuesday, Aug 23, 22 @ 7:59 pm:
Correction, I was outnumbered more than 3 to 1.
- Fishingvest - Wednesday, Aug 24, 22 @ 8:25 am:
If it wasn’t for Cook County, what would be the platform for those downstate pols who want to leave Illinois. It would be interesting question to those folks. How would they organize a new state with the basic state services? Rich have you asked? Th