28 Comments - Thoughts - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 12:54 pm: For reference, during conversations and negotiations these associations supported full day K but asked the language remain “subject to approp” and that the language waited to implemented after the taskforce study was finalized. There were so many opinions on what schools offered full day K and who did not but there was never an accurate number presented. But there has been many districts who have gone to referendum to afford this but have failed. Additionally, grade bans pushed by advocacy groups pushed grade bans on educators making hiring Kindergarten teachers nearly impossible. - NotRich - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 12:55 pm: Yes.. if that issue has lost at referendum vote, or parent groups are opposed at a qualified level, then it’s an automatic waiver. - Just Me 2 - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 1:15 pm: Reinforces. Springfield pols love unfunded mandates. We have locally elected boards of local governments for a reason: to make local governance decisions. - Give Us Barabbas - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 1:27 pm: You are going to spend money either way, private daycares or offloading some of that function to schools. The schools offer a fairer way to do it, and if it’s funded right, the outcome is better for society as a whole. I also like the idea of municipally funded day care, again it’s a public good. - Jocko - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 1:30 pm: I’m not opposed to it in principle, but it further removes the parents of any responsibility to educate their children. Will Mary Beth Canty be proposing a bill making parents accountable for their child’s poor attendance? - TheInvisibleMan - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 1:31 pm: “not only will some districts need additional space, they will need additional teachers” Name them. Which districts will require additional space, and how can this guy know details this specific about every district in the state without looking at the attendance maps and if borders have been redrawn to properly allocate attendance within the district. There are also districts with ‘full’ schools, and nearly half full schools, because administration often puts off redrawing attendance zones to avoid the local pushback. I’ll give a specific example. Plainfield School district had a peak enrollment of almost 30k in the 09-10 school year. Enrollment has declined every year since, for over a decade. At first the school district blamed the 08 financial crisis, but the decline continued for years, even accelerating in the 14-15 years. http://www.psd202.org/documents/charts/enrollment.php The district at the same time tried using ’space’ as a reason they had refused to implement all day K. Despite the very clear drop in enrollment. It became even worse when the district did an end-run around a building referendum in order to build a NEW school in a specific neighborhood where a lot of the town politicos lived. They shuffled the budget, and actually set up this single new school construction as a LEASE to avoid the requirement of holding a referendum. As mentioned above, the district also refused to do any sort of attendance boundary study to justify this, or to justify their claims of lack of space prior to this. As of today, the district is down to about 25k students. That’s an almost 15% drop in student population, yet somehow ’space’ is still a concern parroted by the administration any time expanded educational services are asked for. And that is now WITH all day K in this same district. This is mirrored to varying degrees everywhere in the state, because the decline in enrollment is a widescale demographic shift happening all over the country, not just a localized change. I have a very hard time listening to district administrators. They are often at odds with the teachers, and the function of education institutions. Does this latest story change my opinion? Nope. It’s a school. Offer educational and developmental programs. End of story. - TheInvisibleMan - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 1:50 pm: correction: I misidentified the person I was quoting in my comment as schools ‘needing more space’. It wasn’t some guy. It was some woman, Alison Maley. - Leslie K - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 1:54 pm: Half-day K never made sense to me. Either offer kindergarten or don’t. Forcing parents to shuffle kids between kindergarten and day care mid-day just penalizes the parents who can’t do it (mostly forcing them to choose day care and possibly letting their kids miss out on more structured early education). 1st through 12th grade also cost money. Public school is one of those things we choose to fund as a society because we should. - cermak_rd - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 1:57 pm: No. It seems to me that if other similar situationed (socio-economically) districts have FD Kindergarten, then the ones who don’t made that choice and they often made that choice based on the concept that taxes of and by themselves are bad. Sometimes cheapskates just have to pay the bill. - Donnie Elgin - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 1:58 pm: “This is a mandate that we think will require volunteer, elected school boards to force this on taxpayers who have stated they don’t want it” Springfield knows best. - Candy Dogood - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 2:01 pm: None of their arguments have anything to do with education. I support increasing income taxes in order for the state to better fund K-12 education, but unfortunately a lot of people voted against an amendment that would have allowed a progressive income tax. Those people should be thrilled to support K-12 education with their property taxes. Everyone knows this policy will both improve education outcomes and improve situations for working class parents. - Jibba - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 2:11 pm: If Center Square is against it… - Lurker - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 2:21 pm: When kids are involved I always ask one simple question. What’s best for the kids? Thus, I’m for the full-day mandate. - JS Mill - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 2:50 pm: =“subject to approp”= Which is their little trick to try and force things on schools but not pay for them. I have parents calling daily to make sure we have free lunch for all since a bill was passed. But that bill was “subject to appropriation” which the news conveniently fails to report. Now I have to deal with the angry parents not kim lightford. @TheInvisibleMan, with respect, you stated “Name them” and then you provide a anecdotal evidence of exactly one district to refute something that affects hundreds. IIRC, Batavia only has half-day K. Their assessment scores are just fine. I would like to see how many “working and low income” parents are being hurt by this. This legislation was “ready, shoot, aim”. Public schools are not day care. You put them on this earth, you take care of them. We did with our kids, and there was a significant financial sacrifice involved. Alison’s comments were spot on and I fully agree with her. Schools are here for teaching and learning, we are not babysitters. Everyone needs to come to terms with that. If the ILGA was really interested in solutions, they would fund childcare infrastructure after determining where it was needed and then build that out. That would be a great investment of public dollars. But that, like a single common data system for all schools (which would save districts tens of thousands of dollars and more), would make too much sense. - Captain Obvious - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 2:51 pm: Candy -,Defeat of the unfair tax does not preclude the legislature from raising income taxes to better fund education. In fact it has nothing to do with it. The legislature can vote to raise income taxes at any time. They just don’t have the will to do it. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 2:58 pm: ===The legislature can vote to raise income taxes at any time. They just don’t have the will to do it.=== And? I don’t see *your* point here. You want better schools, use property taxes. You don’t like your schools? Move. That’s the system, for bad, or even worse. The Fair Tax Flop, while cheered, lots of *intended* problems, because that’s what happens, “elections matter” - Jimmy Hart's Megaphone - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 3:08 pm: ==It was some woman== Well, aren’t you a charmer? - Demoralized - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 3:18 pm: ==Everyone needs to come to terms with that== You’re also a lifeline for some kids. You need to come to terms with that instead of flippantly dismissing things as “not your problem.” Life isn’t black and white. - Demoralized - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 3:21 pm: I’m kind of agnostic about the whole full day vs. half day kindergarten debate. So I guess this only reinforces my opinion. I don’t think you can simply say full must always be better than half. It depends on what is being done during that half day. If we are going to full simply for the sake of it then there is absolutely no benefit to doing so. I went to half day kindergarten when I was a kid. I don’t feel that I suffered educationally because of it. As long as that half day is filled with content then I think a half day is more than sufficient. - Rich Miller - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 3:32 pm: ===They just don’t have the will to do it=== They just don’t have the will to raise taxes on the poor and working class instead of just on upper-income folks. Fixed it for you. - TheInvisibleMan - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 3:33 pm: @JS Mill I’m assuming you either work for or are closely associate with Batavia D101. You failed to provide a single data point to refute why one of the largest districts in the state I used as an example, was somehow incorrect or misleading. So, lets look at Batavia D101 *specifically* as well. It should be fairly easy, seeing as how they have a specific page on their website titled “The Enrollment Decline Explained” https://www.bps101.net/news/referendum-the-enrollment-decline-explained “The District’s student enrollment has decreased by 15% in the last 10 years, **following the nationwide trend of declining birth rates.**” I’m glad you questioned my presented facts. It allows me to expand on them even more. Would you care to also refute the facts provided by the Batavia School District, as simply ‘anecdotal’? Space isn’t a problem. The numbers are perfectly clear on this. - TheInvisibleMan - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 3:36 pm: “Well, aren’t you a charmer?” Probably, but that seems irrelevant to me identifying and acknowledging my initial incorrect statement of ’some guy’, when it was not in fact a guy, but ’some woman’. - Anyone Remember - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 3:38 pm: IF Center Square printed 2+2=4, I’d reach for a calculator. A “real professional news organization” would have followed up on “additional” space. They didn’t. They’re not. - Candy Dogood - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 3:43 pm: ===Candy -,Defeat of the unfair tax does not preclude the legislature from raising income taxes to better fund education=== If you’re going to call yourself Captain Obvious I really shouldn’t be the one pointing out to you that the legislature did pass an income tax increase that was linked to that constitutional amendment passing and included specific funds allocated for K-12 education. Keep it up and command will have to bust you down to Lieutenant Oblivious. - Hannibal Lecter - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 3:55 pm: Interesting discussion, but academic performance will continue to depend on the involvement of parents in the child’s education, the socioeconomic status of the child and the community the child lives in. I don’t think full day kindergarten as opposed to half day kindergarten is going to make that much of a difference, in my opinion. - Southern Dude - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 4:09 pm: === They just don’t have the will to raise taxes on the poor and working class instead of just on upper-income folks. Fixed it for you.== When they pass unfunded mandates for schools, property taxes go up. That IS raising taxes on the poor and working class. - JS Mill - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 4:16 pm: =I’m assuming you either work for or are closely associate with Batavia D101.= Nope. As I have stated before, I am a small rural district, not near Batavia. I just know they have half day or had it. =You failed to provide a single data point to refute why one of the largest districts in the state I used as an example, was somehow incorrect or misleading.= Because I did not research Plainfield. I am not here to refute or support that district or their claims. Same goes for Batavia. My point, that you missed, is two fold. First, districts that are half day, will at the very least have to staff these additional class rooms. The current staffing environment is bleak on a good day. SOME may have to add space. =Space isn’t a problem. The numbers are perfectly clear on this.=. So you have visited all of their schools? Simply looking at enrollment numbers will not tell you about classroom space. Batavia and Plainfield are unit districts (mine is too). Enrollment may be even across the board, but that is unlikely. Were they over crowded before that? Is there excess capacity at every school or just certain levels do you want kindergarteners at the high school or middle school?). The numbers don’t tell the whole story. I know this because I am a professional, you may not respect that but it is true. This was done without much thought. =You need to come to terms with that instead of flippantly dismissing things as “not your problem.”= First, I was not flippant. Second, I never said or implied it was not my problem. Babysitting is not my responsibility, and childcare is not the mission of K-12 education. We have become psychiatric care centers, medical clinics, primary providers of nutrition and clothing, before and after school care and entertainment, in addition to trying to teach. We are not expert in most of those areas. We try to find counselors and nurses, they are not in abundance. What we spend on school nurses (we couldn’t find one so we contract out from an area hospital which we are lucky to have and very grateful for) costs about $10k more than we spend on all extracurriculars. I am just fine with that and only share that as a comparison. We spend even more on counselors and even more than that on school lunch that we are not reimbursed for. We do it gladly because we care about kids. We find people and funds for before and after school supervision. It very much is my problem but it should not be. Unlike almost everyone posting on this topic, I am at ground zero of this issue. Pandering politicians sending more our way. I get tired of complaining about funding and do not do it in front of staff or school board. And when we push back against mission creep, we get accused of being flippant or uncaring. We have full-day kindergarten. Compulsory attendance begins at 6 in Illinois, kids usually start kindergarten at 5. Kindergarten isn’t even mandated in Illinois. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Aug 4, 23 @ 4:33 pm: - CD -, appreciate your continued contributions, especially to these type of discussions while batting down “problems” The “Fair Tax Flop” context, to all angles, the thought that the GA and governor will continue to think upon what isn’t, what is going on is thinking to new options, like this in this post. Arguments to “unfunded mandates” or hand wringing to cost to any group, until funding for all of education is overhauled, the problematic issues to cost versus “service” in education highlights the have and have nots to school districts, and where the property taxes are the fuel to revenues If it were easy to fix, it woulda been done already. The Fair Tax went down. Ok. Now let’s talk about today Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.