39 Comments - JJJJJJJJJJ - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 1:26 pm: To be clear DSA is a membership-based organization. Membership (or democratically elected leadership on the policy team, I don’t remember which) voted to make that budget vote a litmus test for endorsement and membership for elected officials. They communicated this to Vazquez and he voted for it anyways. He was then removed. Agree with it or not, I’d imagine this is a considerably more organized process than whatever the Eastern Bloc has in place. - pragmatist - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 1:26 pm: Go far enough to the left, and you end up on the right, and vice versa, and the antisemitism we see on the extremes reflects my point. Interestingly, neither the far left nor far right knows how to govern or hire good people. Trump could never land good people and, in many cases, didn’t want to hire anyone. And Johnson can’t find good people to say yes to joining his senior team. - Rich Miller - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 1:27 pm: A more organized purity process is not exactly something that argues in its favor. - Rich Miller - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 1:27 pm: === And Johnson can’t find good people to say yes to joining his senior team.=== He’s the one who can’t say yes. Yet. - JS Mill - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 1:36 pm: Yes Rich, your comparison is apt and fair. Organized or disorganized the purity test is the same. It is also what keeps these groups from winning higher offices. - Gravitas - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 1:41 pm: Following redistricting, Alderman Vasquez (40th) managed to rid himself of a number of precincts in which single family homeowners resided. Some of these voters were critical of Vasquez in terms of providing routine constituent services in a timely and effective manner. Alders Nugent (39th) and Silverstein (50th) picked up most of these precincts. - Rudy’s teeth - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 1:43 pm: Darren Bailey’s hobby is running for office. As soon as he was elected as State Rep and then State Senate, he decided on a race for governor of Illinois. Bailey accomplished very little in terms of legislation while in Illinois government and embarrassed himself during the debate with JB Pritzker. Now, Bailey targets his opponent with terms like “special interest cash from lobbyists” and “establishment elites” while he gladly accepts government subsidies for his farming complex. Hypocrite, anyone, anyone. - DisappointedVoter - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 1:43 pm: DSA has a problem. What they supposedly kicked Alderman Vasquez out for, increasing CPD budget, is what other DSA aldermen and the mayor they pushed for are now doing and championing. CTU and UWF have failed to hold mayor Johnson accountable for worse things than what Lori or Rahm did. Can you imagine if LL or RE tried to place migrants on toxic tent camps? The left not only has a purity issue but its purity for some and excuses for others. Inconsistency is going to push members and public to lose trust in the “leaders” of these “movements”. - Chintelligentsia - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 1:45 pm: The Vasquez/DSA thing was more about hyperlocal political drama than anything else. CDSA endorsed a different, more-DSA-than-thou member candidate over Vasquez back during the primary to oust O’Connor in the 40th Ward. The same folks who were sore about losing in that round came back and pressed for a “censure” vote the year after. If it were some sort of leftist purity test you’d have continued to see censure votes as various other DSAlders voted for larger cop-funding-increase budgets in the years since. - Drury's Missing Clock - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 1:47 pm: The far-right will be a problem in ten years like they were ten years ago because of the constant stream of cash from billionaires of below-average intelligence, but I think the far-left might be back in the powerless position they were in a decade ago if they keep-up their current tactics. - Donnie Elgin - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 1:47 pm: “I would not want to elect a socialist who, just like at the end of ‘Animal Farm,’ starts to look like all the others. … They have to stay radical. They can’t become a normie.” When you quote “Animal Farm” you are clearly about dorm room politics rather than reality. - Drury's Missing Clock - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 1:50 pm: ==CDSA endorsed a different, more-DSA-than-thou member candidate over Vasquez back during the primary to oust O’Connor in the 40th Ward.== It was about race, another thing CDSA has a huge problem with (see: Nick Ward’s aldermanic campaign) - The Captain - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 1:51 pm: I keep coming back to the quote from the former DSA co-chair and his “starts to look like all the others” standard and “stay radical”. The horrible problem with that standard is that he defines success as a failure. What’s the point of all that energy then, just to perpetually shout at the wind? - 47th Ward - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 1:55 pm: I think your take is spot-on Rich. DSA and the Eastern Bloc/Trumpers are two sides of the same coin. Neither side can do well in general elections, but both can be influential in primaries. Both have trouble attracting voters in the middle, which has got to be the largest voting bloc in America, by far. Let’s just hope it stays that way and the far left and far right continue to eat themselves until none are left. Purity politics is worse than a trap. It’s killing our Republic. - Homebody - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 1:56 pm: I like DSA in theory, but I can’t take them seriously when their leadership uses terms like “normie.” Radicalism for the sake of radicalism is meaningless if you can’t get concrete policy wins. - wowie - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 2:00 pm: Grown adult using the word “normie” expects to be taken seriously politically. Good luck. - Hannibal Lecter - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 2:04 pm: The DSA and the Eastern-bloc represent the most extreme parts of their respective political ideologies. The DSA consists of progressives on steroids and have no concept of how to act within an established framework. Members of the Eastern-bloc (and their supporters) are the most right-wing, MAGA supporting people around. The biggest difference is that your run of the mill progressives are not yet afraid of the DSA folks because their numbers are so small. Conservative Republicans, on the other hand, are so afraid of Trumpists and Eastern-bloc types because the Republican electorate has moved so far to the right that it is usually the most right-wing candidate will win the primary. Neither side is good for governing the City, State or Country. - Roman - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 2:05 pm: Ideological purity tests remind me of what the late political pundit Mark Shields often said: “There are two kinds of people in politics — those who search for converts and those who hunt for heretics.” Both the DSA and MAGA types seem to revel in the latter. - Pundent - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 2:09 pm: =Bailey accomplished very little in terms of legislation while in Illinois government= The MAGA and Eastern Bloc crowd is all about grievances not governing. They don’t seem to care if the rhetoric doesn’t square with reality. - no use for a (nick)name - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 2:13 pm: I think this is a very apt comparison. I think the only difference is that there is a robust counterweight to such extremism within liberal and Democratic politics, where as Republican politics has sadly become nothing but a purity contest and, in the era of Trump, not even a very ideologically coherent one at that. Smart people on the left like Vazquez can make compromises to advance their overall cause and can possibly even gain some voters from that other bloc within their broader coalition. No such incentive exists on the right. ==Go far enough to the left, and you end up on the right, and vice versa== This comment made me want to share this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory - H-W - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 2:15 pm: At a basic level I would agree that there is a similarity here. We see more and more people and candidates adhering to party platforms with less wavering these days. Party platforms or planks used to be ideological (e.g., “fiscal conservatism”) which allowed some variance, and some modification and negotiation. Today, people seem less focused on the complexity of ideas and the difficulty of understanding the nexus between theory and practice. Too many have become armchair theorist capable of judging the character of others by the content of their platitudes. But I am sure this too shall pass, one way or another. We cannot remain shills forever. - Dotnonymous x - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 2:17 pm: Humans appear to seek conflict…as a constant…regardless of any specific ideology. - Amalia - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 2:20 pm: yeah, equal opportunity idiot behavior at both ends. the MAGA end ridiculous is obvious, locally the Catanzara types. the left end is getting out on the branch particularly with the inability to call out terrorists and that’s happening lots here. - Moe Berg - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 2:30 pm: A commonality shared by the far left/right is that they see things strictly in black and white (color, not race) terms, when the complexity of the world and the people who make it up is various shades of gray. So committed are they to the righteousness of their views, any compromise or recognition that others have different, but legitimate, perspectives/ experiences/values is a betrayal of the “one true way.” Compromise is bad because it means not getting everything they want. So, no loaf, rather than half for the sake of basking in the vanity of their purity. Also, a way to portray and think of themselves as martyrs for the cause. Compromise undercuts the holier-than-thou persona they’ve created for themselves and so they remaine rigid in their views to avoid the pain of a self-inflicted wound to their ego (narcissistic injury). - vern - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 2:40 pm: It’s generally an apt comparison, but there’s one key difference that I think is important. Most DSA types I’ve encountered understand at some level that they’re a minority. They acknowledge the existence of various opponents in both parties and do their best to understand those opponents. They also concede that the electorate isn’t on their side yet and there’s more persuasion work to do. , and concede that they need to change the hearts and minds of voters to win elections. Their theory of change might be wrong, but they are genuinely trying to understand how to make change. I don’t see that with the MAGA types. They’re locked into the idea that the Republican Party should be smaller. They don’t want to understand either their ideological opponents or the voters they can’t win. I think a lot are skeptical that those voters even exist. There’s a lot I don’t like about the DSA. But I do think that they’re trying understand the world as it is, and then change it through democratic means. I don’t see either of those fundamental qualities from MAGA. - Norseman - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 2:41 pm: === God willing, we will prevail, in peace and freedom from fear, and in true health, through the purity and essence of our natural… === God save us from all extremists. The only difference is that the MAGAts have taken control of one party. The left extremes make it harder for Dems to win. - ArchPundit - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 2:43 pm: They are both examples of what happens when partisanship is very strong and parties are weak. What are usually outside pressure groups are able to gather strength, but the party doesn’t have tools to push back when it goes too far. Our campaign finance is largely individual based and not party based meaning the party’s biggest tool is taken away from it–obviously in Illinois this isn’t as extreme as with federal races, but that might also show the difference in the level of strength of Miller & Bailey and the alder people. - LastModDemStanding - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 3:08 pm: - Hannibal Lecter @ 2:04 - Fully agree with this statement. Progressives and Dems don’t see DSA as a serious threat, as their wins are too few, locally and and nationally. The type of polarization DSA/Eastern Bloc represents are bad for Government. - Telly - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 3:16 pm: Totally fair and accurate comparison. Not only do both extremes share an affinity for purity tests, they also share an inability to actually govern. The we-can’t-become-normie mentality is an implied admission that the hard left doesn’t really want to govern and Alderwomen Taylor made an explicit admission that the DSA is not yet capable of governing. As for the MAGA folks, they believe government is the problem and proved they can’t operate it during the Speaker of the House debacle. - Shytown - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 3:17 pm: Fundamentally the problem here for the far left and right is a complete inability, a rigidity, to compromise. I feel like that is fundamental to a functioning democracy and that is almost non-existant right now. And in that sense, there’s not much of a difference between the far left and right. There must be a willingness to find common ground and those in the middle, sadly, have had their voices constantly drowned out or they’re too intimidated to raise their voice. - Blue Bayou - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 3:18 pm: I live in Andre’s ward in Chicago. I voted for him and will do so again, happily. He works his butt off to serve his constituents. He’s transparent and open about process and planning. Our previous alderman did none of these things. Tossing around labels is what we often do when discussing people and politicians, and that’s fine (OK, not always). But look at what this alderman has done, and what he’s doing. Go to his web page. It’s all there. Compared to his peers he’s miles ahead in doing actual public service. - lake county democrat - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 3:20 pm: Absolutely fair comparison. You see similar divisions within DSA regarding Israel/Gaza, with some denouncing Bernie Sanders and even AOC for being too soft on Israel, and within MAGA over the battle for speaker. The “extreme of the extreme” won’t find complexity or nuance in anything - they’d rather be in the minority (especially if their home districts are safe) than a winning coallition. - Three Dimensional Checkers - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 3:39 pm: I would say the DSA will have an aneurysm when the Shotspotter contract is extended, but they would have had to care genuinely about it to begin with. - Candy Dogood - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 3:48 pm: I think this is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison — however the notions are similar enough because they’re both fruit. The DSA is an organization more so than a political ideology. A local organization booted an elected official for voting against their organization’s policy positions. While technically a purity test, it is the DSA being the DSA. They’re their own organization. They don’t really exist to cater to elected officials and they’re pretty bad at getting their members elected. ===Darren is MAGA to his core=== The DSA can point to a specific policy position/vote, but I don’t know what this means. What does it mean to be “MAGA?” Is there a MAGA organization out there creating platforms and bylaws or is it just some kind of meaningless buzzword is thrown around because it has no meaning so it means whatever they want or need it to be when they’re trying to “out MAGA” each other. They haven’t even bothered defining what would make America great — or when it was last great. ===America First movement=== Again, what exactly is this America first movement? ===Mike Bost […] liberal voting record=== Is this even remotely close to being true? What “liberal” votes has Mike Bost taken? He has a liberal voting record? What makes Darren Bailey a “true conservative” and Mike Bost a “false conservative?” So if these are the same thing because they’re a purity test, okay, I’ll agree. They’re both a purity test. But the DSA at least created a framework that defines what their actual positions are and why they booted Vasquez. They did the work and they showed their work. The right wing is just throwing nonsense at each other. Mary Miller’s endorsement doesn’t have any real meaning behind it either. They’re not principled people and they’re not actually advocating for a real platform or real policy positions. The whole argument seems to be that Darren Bailey will be more loyal to a would be dictator — and of course he would be, because Darren Bailey is a man who lacks substance. - Candy Dogood - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 3:56 pm: ===neither the far left nor far right knows how to govern or hire good people=== The false equivalencies in this statement are pretty glaring. We live in a country where the “far left” is anyone who advocates for universal healthcare. Our Democratic political party is the equivalent of a conservative political party in most of Europe. The Republican Party is literally the party of Trump. He was twice their national nominee and their 2020 platform was nothing more than a loyalty pledge to Trump. The person endorsing Darren Bailey is literally a member of congress. The far right in this country is literally in control of the Republican Party. You can stop speaking of it as an abstract concept and you can stop being so lazy as to avoid defining what it is to be “far left.” And lordy, before making Johnson the poster boy for all of the left wing in this Country consider how terrible of a candidate Vallas was and what a terrible job that poorly closeted Republican would be doing right now. Who exactly do you think would be rushing to put that turd on their resume? He didn’t exactly attract an all star campaign team, did he? - Chintelligentsia - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 4:14 pm: ===The DSA can point to a specific policy position/vote=== The problem with this narrative is that other DSA members who are sitting Alderpersons have taken similar or more egregious votes, by the standards set by DSA in their censure, and not even been considered for anything similar. There is no purity test. It was literally just payback for a candidate who was a DSA member but happened to beat out the org’s preferred candidate in a primary. - Henry - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 7:24 pm: They said it could never happen here….they were wrong. - Biker - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 7:38 pm: Hopefully the radical left can focus on infrastructure and access to bikes, buses and trains - Just Me 2 - Monday, Dec 11, 23 @ 10:20 pm: I live in Vasquez’s ward. I asked his office what I thought was a perfectly reasonable question and his staff said the Alderman doesn’t represent people “like you” and is committed to “changing the way business is done” yadda yadda. If I ever see him in person I plan to show him the email thread. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.