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Rare agreement on guns?

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013

* Details matter, but this sure looks like a practical idea on guns

Both sides of the gun-control debate could be headed for a rare agreement at the Statehouse on a push by Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart to get guns out of the hands of felons and the seriously mentally ill.

His plan would require gun owners to surrender their state-issued Firearm Owners Identification Cards within 48 hours of being notified they were ineligible to possess a gun because of being convicted of a felony or domestic violence or being judged mentally ill.

A top gun-rights advocate told the Chicago Sun-Times late Tuesday that his “intuition” was an agreement could be reached on the issue with gun-control supporters.

In Cook County, about 5,000 people have had their state gun permits revoked by the Illinois State Police, making them ineligible to buy weapons. But only about 1,000 have actually turned in the cards, leaving them able to buy ammunition at will, Dart’s office said.

Under the sheriff’s measure, those who had their permits taken away also would have to account for where their weapons would be maintained during the period of time their FOID cards were revoked.

* Meanwhile, John Schmidt defends onetime foe Attorney General Lisa Madigan on her refusal to say whether she’s appealing the appellate court ruling that declares Illinois’ public carry ban unconstitutional

In December I wrote in these pages on why Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan should not appeal the federal appellate court decision throwing out Illinois’ total ban on concealed carry. The Supreme Court decision in the New York case strongly reinforces that conclusion.

The question is one of judicial tactics, not a test of commitment to gun control. A total ban is the least defensible concealed carry law. In his December decision, 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals Judge Richard Posner said the Illinois ban failed any test of constitutional scrutiny. That conclusion is almost inescapable now that the Illinois total ban is unique in the nation and Illinois crime rates give no support to the argument that the ban has a positive impact in reducing violence.

The positive side of the Supreme Court’s New York decision is that limits on concealed carry may pass constitutional muster. New York’s law requires any gun applicant to show a “special need” for a concealed carry permit and gives the permitting authority to local officials who can respond to differing statewide needs and interests. We don’t know how the appellate court would come out on such a law. In his decision, Posner expressed some reservation about the New York court’s analysis, but he reached no conclusion on whether a New York-type law would be upheld here.

Illinois can now follow New York’s lead and come up with a new law that the General Assembly believes meets Illinois’ particular needs and circumstances. After the New York decision, any reasonably drafted law, short of a total ban, has a real chance of withstanding constitutional challenge.

* And the Tribune editorial board concurs with that last point

So, let’s go. Illinois could live with a concealed-carry law that recognizes local needs and interests. Gov. Pat Quinn and other Democratic leaders have signaled support for that option. The gun lobby doesn’t like the New York template, but it would be interesting to watch pro-gun lawmakers defend a vote to defeat a bill that for the first time establishes concealed carry in Illinois.

The Illinois Legislature is scheduled to adjourn on May 31, nine days before the clock runs out on the appellate court’s grace period. That court could stay its ruling if Illinois appeals to the U.S. Supreme Court. Attorney General Lisa Madigan is wise to delay a decision on whether to appeal until the Legislature acts or doesn’t act.

Bottom line, the wisest course for the Legislature is to act: Pass a “may-issue” concealed carry law that provides local control.

The NRA won’t see the irony. To them, “may carry” might as well be “no carry.” From an ISRA action alert…

URGENT ALERT – YOUR IMMEDIATE ACTION REQUIRED

GUN GRABBERS TRY TO HIJACK CONCEALED CARRY

YOU MUST MAKE PHONE CALLS IMMEDIATELY

Rabid gun grabber Rep. Kelly Cassidy has introduced amendments to HB0831 which hijack the court’s requirement to enact concealed carry and transform concealed carry into gun control.

IT’S IMPORTANT THAT YOU ACT IMMEDIATELY TO HALT CASSIDY’S SCHEME.

Kelly’s vision of concealed carry is absolutely unacceptable to law-abiding citizens. Her proposal contains all sorts of impediments to self defense – the worst of which is that carry licenses would be issues on a “may issue” basis.

UNDER KELLY’S PROPOSAL, YOU WOULD HAVE TO CONVINCE SOME POLITICAL HACK THAT YOUR LIFE IS WORTH DEFENDING.

That’s right, under Kelly Cassidy’s version of “concealed carry,” you would have to go down to your village hall and beg some civil servant for the right to defend yourself and your family from vicious street thugs. Of course, your chances of success will depend greatly on what you look like and how many checks you had written to your local sheriff’s reelection campaign committee.

* From the preamble in Rep. Cassidy’s bill

The Seventh Circuit’s opinion in Moore favorably cited Kachalsky v. County of Westchester, 701 F.3d 81 (2d Cir. N.Y. 2012), a recent opinion of the Second Circuit Court of Appeals, which upheld New York’s law restricting the carrying of firearms in public. New York’s law gives the local issuing authority considerable discretion in deciding whether to issue a license, and has been interpreted to require an applicant for an unrestricted license to demonstrate “a special need for self-protection distinguishable from that of the general community”. By favorably citing the Second Circuit’s opinion in Kachalsky, the Seventh Circuit in Moore indicated that it agreed that New York’s requirements are consistent with the Second Amendment.

* From the bill

A sheriff or the [Chicago police superintendent] may submit a recommendation for approval of an application to the Department, if the applicant is an eligible individual under Section 20 who has sufficiently demonstrated, in the judgment of the sheriff or Superintendent, that:

    (1) he or she has a particularized need for the license;
    (2) he or she is a responsible person; and
    (3) the issuance of a license is in the public’s interest.

“Particularized need” is defined in the proposal as meaning that the applicant is “exposed to unusual personal danger, distinct from other members of the community.”

Discuss.

- Posted by Rich Miller        


68 Comments
  1. - Skeeter - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 11:04 am:

    One quick clarification. The post seems to equate the NRA with the ISRA.

    In my experience, Todd V is a tough negotiator but he’s not prone to making the kind of paranoid press releases that the ISRA does as a matter of routine.

    Those two seem to have very different tactics.

    The ISRA seems intent on scaring off moderates. In contrast, I know Todd has been working hard to pull in moderates and in particular, he’s been working on some Chicago Dems.


  2. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 11:05 am:

    ===The post seems to equate the NRA with the ISRA.===

    It may not be clear enough, but make no mistake that they are on the same page on this Cassidy bill.


  3. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 11:07 am:

    But you’re right about Todd. He’s not the sort of guy that folks normally expect of NRA leadership.


  4. - How Ironic - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 11:07 am:

    I don’t like it. It seems to be a rather onerous method, and one that requires someone to determine ‘if’ your particular situation ‘needs’ to be addressed with a CCW.

    And what happens if the ‘need’ expires…do they come back for your permit? How is that enforced?

    It should be:

    1. Has a valid FOID
    2. Is a responsible person
    3. Attended and passed all required training courses.

    Then issue the permit.

    Otherwise it just seems like a legislative manuver to eliminate citizens from CCW under the guise of ‘may issue’.


  5. - Skeeter - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 11:09 am:

    One additional point — I’m a huge fan of Kelly Cassidy. Overall, she’s done some great work during her short time in Springfield. She’s been a great voice for freedom and equality.

    But I’m disappointed that she doesn’t seem to value freedom for reasonable people to own guns. Freedom has to have meaning, even if it means freedom to do things that others may not like, as long as nobody else is being harmed.

    I wish she would take a step back and look at whether her position on guns is consistent with her philosophical views on other issues.


  6. - Ghost - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 11:10 am:

    It makes me uncomfortable when any law has broad discretionary language that is vaguely defined. This “exposed to unusual personal danger” seems like a good way to approve friends and family, so to speak, but not the people you disfavor. it also seems a good way to enocurage “gifts” and political contributions to locals by people hopiong to have there permit approved.

    as we look to move away from corruption a discretionary law like this creates troublesome opportunity for those who give donations to be found to have provided unusual personal danger explanations while those who do not contribute will have their explanation denied.

    We already have problems in small counties with Local officials agreeing to give foid cards back to people convicted of domestic battery (even though they cant have guns under federal law); lack of oversight and uniform application is not empowering, it is unwatched opportunties for abuse and corruption.

    If we want to take this seriously it needs to be a deifned standard with bright and clear definitions applicable to all.


  7. - downstate commissioner - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 11:18 am:

    Actually, I would probably qualify for the permit, based on what I know about our local sheriff feelings about concealed carry.But if I were a pro-gun legislator, I would probably vote against a may-issue bill AT THIS TIME, in hopes that it would fail, and a shall-issue bill would be offered. The clock is still clicking…


  8. - Mason born - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 11:21 am:

    First of all the Dart legislation is a very good step read about it in the Trib. I could see a couple tweeks but they are primarily procedural. Such as the amount of time the individual has to transfer the firearms to someone else, what leeway he as a convicted felon is now going to have to transfer, can he sell them, etc. These should be easy to work out. I hope it passes.

    As for the May-issue thing. The problem, and why it won’t be hard for downstate legislators to vote against, is that it will be seen as the Chicago way right now. If you are an Alderman you can carry. If you are a shop owner like Luis Quizhpe then you don’t. If someone really want’s a May-issue then i suggest you junk the Special need language. I think most of us could live with a reasonable may-issue as a fall back position but the NY style is a de facto ban. Don’t forget a vote against this isn’t a vote against CCW since CCW still happens June 9th. If a May-Issue NY style bill was what Chicago wanted they should have attempted to pass it prior to December.


  9. - Ken_in_Aurora - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 11:30 am:

    ===To them, “may carry” might as well be “no carry.” ===

    I have no doubt that “may carry” legislation will result in SoCal-style CCW here in IL - i.e. no carry in Cook and certain other counties unless you are one of the political elite. I have emphatically requested my legislators vote against any such bill.


  10. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 11:35 am:

    The NRA called the New York law a de facto ban. I don’t see them changing their minds here.


  11. - Colossus - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 11:42 am:

    If Mason Born is signing on to this, then I think we’re starting to find a way to move forward on this one.


  12. - AFSCME Steward - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 11:43 am:

    That should be how


  13. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 11:46 am:

    Also, aren’ we already practicing local control in some areas of the state? Haven’t some state’s attorneys announced they will not enforce the state’s conceal carry ban? Isn’t that de facto conceal carry?


  14. - Ucster - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 11:52 am:

    “How Ironic” nails it in his post.


  15. - Amalia - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 11:55 am:

    glad to hear something hopeful on narrowing the ability of those who are dangerous from having guns.

    good luck Kelly.


  16. - low level - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 12:02 pm:

    @ wordslinger: exactly. The ‘checks to the sheriff’s reelection campaign committees’ or state’s attorneys reelection campaign committees in those areas must be flowing! (directly cited from the “Action Alert”)

    LOL- just when I thought it was safe, the ISRA outdoes itself once again with the hyperbole. Somebody protect me from the press release/action alert writers!


  17. - ronoglesby - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 12:05 pm:

    May issue will be no issue unless tou are hooked up. Rahm’s brother would get a permit but my brother would be said to not have enough ‘need’.

    Sorry any more areas for favors and corruption in this state is Not a good thing.


  18. - Steve - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 12:18 pm:

    What will be interesting is if the final Illinois bill allows significant local control. We could have a situation where suburbanites get the green light to carry from a suburban police chief and these suburbanites work in the Loop. While Chicago residents are denied the right to carry by and large because they haven’t made a campaign contribution.


  19. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 12:22 pm:

    –get the green light to carry from a suburban police chief and these suburbanites work in the Loop. –

    How many businesses and office buildings in the Loop are going to allow conceal carry within their walls? My guess is somewhere close to zero.


  20. - Happy Returns - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 12:25 pm:

    Unconstitutional. Violates 14th Amendment.

    (’What? That’s not what they mean by ‘equal protection’?! )


  21. - Mongo - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 12:31 pm:

    Rono…you have no faith in the guy near you that you voted for or against, in your own community? The whole point of local government is that it is local. The cynicism without any evidence does not help.

    After the NY decision, everyone should have seen this coming.

    Stop blasting, start compromising.

    And ditto to Low Level…I just about sprayed my coffee when I read the ISRA alert. Gee that really helps get the moderates on your side.


  22. - Mason born - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 12:38 pm:

    Colossus

    Didn’t know i was the sounding board here but okay. I think if you read the trib article that the NRA is on board for the Dart proposal. This is the kind of thing that should have been done when the FOID was first established.


  23. - Steve - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 12:43 pm:

    Wordslinger:

    Police officers carry handguns in many of those buildings , so what’s the big deal??? Does that mean the police can’t go into those buildings? I don’t feel unsafe when I eat in a Chicago restaurant and see Chicago police officers carrying guns. But, you are right: any property owner has a basic right to deny someone on their property. So if XWZ company doesn’t want gun owners on their property : that’s their right.


  24. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 12:47 pm:

    –Police officers carry handguns in many of those buildings , so what’s the big deal–

    That’s not a serious question, is it? I’m pretty sure, under the law, you can’t prevent a police officer from carrying their service weapon. They’re delegated all sorts of responsibilities, under the law.

    I believe the legislation under consideration allows property owners to prevent guns on their property.


  25. - ronoglesby - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 12:53 pm:

    @word

    Actually you are thinking big buildings, hundreds of smaller offices like my old ome would allow it. Talk about cramming everyone into one size fits all. He had a valid point you failed to address.


  26. - Realist - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 12:59 pm:

    Word, officers are not allowed to carry their service weapons into capitol buildings (even Stratton), security guards in private buildings might be able to prevent them in non-emergency cases.


  27. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 1:00 pm:

    –He had a valid point you failed to address.–

    What am I missing? The police are delegated all sorts of authority under the law the average person does not have.


  28. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 1:03 pm:

    –Word, officers are not allowed to carry their service weapons into capitol buildings (even Stratton)–

    I did not know that, thanks. I have seen baliffs requiring police officers to check their weapons before entering courtrooms.

    – security guards in private buildings might be able to prevent them in non-emergency cases. –

    I don’t know about that, but if I were a security guard, I probably wouldn’t try it.


  29. - John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 1:13 pm:

    Skeeter:
    This is why I hold my nose when voting.

    Cassidy holds civil rights dear and close to her heart, whether they are real or contrived, as long as they are the civil rights that she likes.

    To Cassidy, people have no right to self-defense with firearms. She willingly supports people outside of her district who feel the same way.

    http://new.livestream.com/blueroomstream/events/2019771/videos/16080680


  30. - Amalia - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 1:25 pm:

    “It’s easy to get around background checks. All you gotta do is tell immigration you’re a gun.”

    Jon Stewart on The Daily Show about immigration and gun issues.


  31. - Ggal - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 1:34 pm:

    this may be an insignificant question to the discussion, but who is the authority that judges who is mentally ill? This is about the Dart proposal.


  32. - 332bill - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 1:39 pm:

    Anybody else notice that the live fire portion of Cassidy’s bill doesn’t require you hit anything.


  33. - Mason born - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 1:42 pm:

    ggal

    I think that that is an action taken by a court. I may be incorrect.


  34. - Todd - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 1:45 pm:

    Couple of things, it is not just a may issue but may issue squared.so you have to get permission from the locals, then the state police have MAY issue on top of it.

    Add that there is no preemption,so on top of may issue, Oak Park makes it illegal to do anything more than step off the sidewalk.

    This isnt a carry law its a no carry law


  35. - Mason born - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 1:52 pm:

    Todd

    Question how does the landscape look, are we going to see anything before end of session? I am assume that the Cassidy bill is DOA?

    I started reading that thing looks like she had VPC write it. Talk about going to the extremes.


  36. - Amalia - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 1:54 pm:

    todd defines Kelly’s bill as may issue squared. how does he define the NY bill just refused review by the US Supremes?


  37. - John Boch - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 1:56 pm:

    This is nothing more than just the latest effort to saddle Illinoisans with an ineffective “may issue” bill.

    History has proven that “May Issue” firearms carry permit laws are widely subject to abuse, corruption, racial bigotry, and un-equal application based upon the whims of government officials

    Supporters of gun control don’t have the votes to pass “may issue”. If the votes were there, Speaker Madigan would have already gotten it through the House and on to the Senate.

    The bottom line: The National Rifle Association, the Illinois State Rifle Association and Guns Save Life have the votes to pass a shall-issue bill through the House if it were called by the Speaker and given an up or down vote.

    We also have the votes to stop “may issue” bills.

    Absent a true “shall issue” bill being signed into law before June 9th, we’ll be practicing unregulated “Constitutional Carry”. All the caterwauling in the world isn’t going to change that.

    John


  38. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 1:59 pm:

    @John:

    Actually John you’ll be subject to all sorts of varied local ordinances regarding carry and it will once again get mired in the courts. If you think you’ll just be able to strap on a gun and walk around you are wrong. It will be messy so I suggest everybody work something out. Enough with the arrogance from people.


  39. - Mason born - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 2:00 pm:

    John

    Same questions i asked Todd. Any hope for a bill prior to end of session? Seems like the closer they get to the deadline the less the do. Oh wait i forgot for a second what state i was in.


  40. - Mason born - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 2:03 pm:

    Demo

    Does that apply to MJM? That seems to be the holdup and the source of arrogance.


  41. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 2:07 pm:

    MB, if Brandon truly had the votes he’d have run his bill by now. Stop whining.


  42. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 2:10 pm:

    @Mason:

    It applies to everybody. All of you need to stop with the finger pointing. And if you don’t think your side is just as arrogant then you have blinders on. And I hate to tell you but things like that ISRA garbage don’t endear those of us who are reasonable and rational to the cause. Both sides need to get a handle on this kind of nonsense.


  43. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 2:10 pm:

    That was me above


  44. - Mason born - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 2:17 pm:

    Demo

    I agree with you on the stupidity of the little alerts. I usually Trash can them as soon as i see them. I can agree that a reasonable bill is preferable to no bill. However the reasonable bill is being ignored while we go through a political dog and pony show. There is room in the Phelps bill for negotiation yet only one side “appears” to be at the table. Now it could be that there are talks i am not aware of. On the outside here this looks more like a political bomb throwing match then an attempt to reach an agreement. Of course maybe this is par for the course here in IL.


  45. - Todd - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 2:21 pm:

    Amila– i consider the new york law a bad law.

    The court decision from the second doesn’t really impact the rulling of the 7th

    The Suprems didnt issue an opinion, they just didnt take the case. We are still under the order to pass a bill.


  46. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 2:24 pm:

    @Mason:

    I have no illusions as far as the process. And I honestly couldn’t tell you what the sausage will look like once it comes out of the grinder (if it ever gets out). All I can say is that the loudest talkers are the extremists and those groups aren’t going to agree on anything. I would hope that there are discussions by people who have their heads on straight going on behind the scenes. All I know is that it’s going to be really messy if there isn’t a bill in June because you are going to have some people who think they can sling a gun on their belt and go on their way and I guarantee you there will be others waiting to arrest those people. It will be nasty.


  47. - Downstate Illinois - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 2:36 pm:

    The Cassidy bill says my right to self-defense is limited to what the sheriff will allow. That would likely violate the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution guaranteeing equal protection under the law. Take someone like Sheriff Dart in Chicago who has flagrantly ignored laws he doesn’t like if he thinks it will help his re-election chances.

    From an ethical standpoint it creates an opportunity for corruption that less than ethical policitians will exploit. Considering that Gallatin County just sent its last sheriff to jail for selling drugs out of the evidence room, it’s a legitimate concern.

    I don’t need a license for the First Amendment and I certainly don’t need a permission slip for the Second.


  48. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 2:45 pm:

    ==I don’t need a license for the First Amendment and I certainly don’t need a permission slip for the Second. ==

    Actually sometimes you do need a license for the 1st Amendment (permits to gather, press credentials, etc.). And you actually do need permission for the 2nd (in the form of background checks, FOID card, etc.). Don’t get me wrong, I think the bill is dumb. But I don’t like these arguments about absolutes. There are no absolute rights. I don’t know of one that doesn’t have a caveat associated with it.


  49. - FormerParatrooper - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 3:17 pm:

    With what Scalia said in the McDonald case, Chicago residents could cite as a “special need”. He spoke of the crime rate, the call for National Hairs troops to patrol city from Alderman, seems that a cut paste of the decision should be suffice. Yes, a bit tongue in cheek on my part, but worth thinking about in the context of the proposal.


  50. - FormerParatrooper - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 3:19 pm:

    Gaurd not hairs….on my mobile here.


  51. - titan - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 3:21 pm:

    ===(1) he or she has a particularized need for the license;===

    In other words, he is a politically connected person. That’s just dandy. I suspect I could probably wrangle one out of my locals…but if one is subject to a patchwork maze of local control restrictions, it would be a complete cluster****


  52. - Amalia - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 3:26 pm:

    @Todd, you say the NY law is bad, but I wonder is it not as bad as Kelly’s bill?


  53. - Todd - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 3:56 pm:

    Hb831 failed with only 31 votes.

    I told you they didn’t have the votes


  54. - reelpro - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 4:02 pm:

    Outstanding, what is next?


  55. - Mason born - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 4:04 pm:

    Todd

    well done. Maybe now we can actually try to accomplish something.


  56. - Precinct Captain - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 4:08 pm:

    Downstate Illinois: “From an ethical standpoint it creates an opportunity for corruption that less than ethical policitians will exploit.”

    Like secret-money PACs?


  57. - Precinct Captain - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 4:14 pm:

    ronoglesby: “May issue will be no issue unless tou are hooked up. Rahm’s brother would get a permit but my brother would be said to not have enough ‘need’.”

    Except for the fact that Rahm’s brothers are not citizens of the state of Illinois. However, had Toomey-Manchin passed the US Senate & then the House & then been signed into law by President Obama, Zeke & Ari could’ve gotten permits in other states and used them in Illinois.


  58. - Mr. Wonderful - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 4:22 pm:

    Toddster - good to see that Cassidy bill go down so bad. Senate rejects background check red herring. A great day for the good guys!


  59. - Ken_in_Aurora - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 4:49 pm:

    === Hb831 failed with only 31 votes. ===

    A good end to a bad bill.


  60. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 5:00 pm:

    Is that an act from Rep. Bost or the real deal? He’s going to give his you tube record a run.


  61. - Mental Health Practitioner - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 5:05 pm:

    It is not practical to expect someone who has been adjudicated mentally ill to turn over their weapons and FOID card. Someone who is that seriously mentally ill is either already in the hospital or taken from the court room to the hospital. The law should be written giving the authorities the ability to go to their homes and take the weapons and card. Otherwise the onus is placed upon family members (if there are any) who may or may not have a FOID card much less the education or comfort level to deal with this problem.


  62. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 5:29 pm:

    @Mr. Wonderful:

    So everybody that disagrees with you is a bad guy? I think the Senate thing is ridiculous. The fact that the gun supporters (I don’t classify myself as either a supporter or an opponent) cannot even support background checks makes me shake my head in disgust. Reason has once again gone right out the door. You can give me all of the malarky you want about the “list” but its bull. Bottom line - the extremists won on this one.


  63. - Norseman - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 5:34 pm:

    Word, I’d say one part “act,” one part “real deal” and two parts “minority party frustration.” Designated floor spokesmen feel they have to be animated for effect. Bill Black gave us some great tirades. If you were watching the floor or on the web, he provided extra colors to enhance your viewing experience.


  64. - Amalia - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 5:48 pm:

    God bless Mark Kirk for voting for the background check bill. How that mild background check bill was not palatable to Senators is beyond me. and it got a majority of the U.S. Senate, just not 60 votes, so the majority of people in this country don’t get what they want.


  65. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 5:57 pm:

    Norseman, thanks. In this case, his side won big and he was still howling. I thought that was a bit odd.


  66. - Precinct Captain - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 5:59 pm:

    @MHP
    But the ISRA will scream “CONFISCATION!#$@%^&*”


  67. - RNUG - Wednesday, Apr 17, 13 @ 9:34 pm:

    Mental Health Practitioner @ 5:05 pm:

    While I agrere with the thought and purpose, I would prefer the law require either the next of kin or the person with power of attorney for the health and well being of the “mentally ill” person be the one required to properly deal with it. I have no problem with law enforcement visiting that person to be sure the law is complied with. If there is no designated responsible person, I would prefer a court assign a relative to be the responsible person for that purpose.


  68. - the Patriot - Thursday, Apr 18, 13 @ 8:24 am:

    It is not possible to get ISP, local law enforcement, courts, and mental health records in a searchable format without spending tens of millions and over several years.

    The reality is that all of these issues are no longer going to be dictated by what is right and reasonable, but what we can or cannot afford. If you don’t like it, vote for republican next time.


Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.


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        * Samsung Stays As The Top Smartphone Vendor For Q3, Xiaomi Rises to Third
        * Facebook Mobile Photo Updates: This Week in Social Media
        * Amazon Executive Says Fire Phone Was Overpriced
        * How to Enable On-Screen buttons on Mi 3 & Redmi 1S
        * Sprint Leases Samsung Galaxy S5 For $20 A Month
        * OnePlus One With Yellow Kevlar Back Poses For The Camera

        * From the archives: Minnie Minoso's history and Hall of Fame case
        * Fall Stars Game filled to brim with talent
        * Fall Stars Game filled to brim with talent
        * White Sox opt to decline Paulino's '15 option
        * White Sox have flexibility to pursue multiple upgrades
        * White Sox offseason plan roundup: Third base
        * Minnie Miñoso belongs in the Hall of Fame


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        * U. of Illinois building $13.3 million feed complex..
        * Inmate freed in landmark Illinois case..
        * Documentarian Recalls the 1986 World Series Cha.....
        * Tokyo Thrills the Global Stock Markets..
        * Ill. 14th District: Hultgren, Anderson emphasiz.....


        * Lake Michigan waves slam Chicago lakeshore
        * Creator of Operation couldn't afford own operation
        * Union backs county commissioner for Chicago mayor
        * Judge won't close hearing in Islamic State case
        * Lake Michigan waves slam Chicago lakeshore
        * Wallenda ready for windy Chicago tightrope walks
        * Woman charged with defrauding Illinois couple
        * Quinn, Rauner talk jobs, early voting Friday
        * Judge won't close hearing in Islamic State case
        * Cook County Jail guard faces theft charge

        * State contribution to TRS to increase by $300 million next year
        * Former Gov. Edgar to campaign with Rauner
        * Attorney general seeks clarifications from Topinka’s former nonprofit
        * Inmate freed from Jacksonville prison in landmark Illinois case
        * Cross opposes income tax hike extension
        * Gay marriage, abortion issues take back seat in governor’s race
        * Madigan’s office seeks clarifications from former Topinka nonprofit
        * Cross says no to income tax hike extension, sales tax on services
        * Gay marriage, abortion issues take backseat in governor’s race
        * Illinois inmate freed in landmark capital punishment case

        * SEC examines Caterpillar's accounting for Bucyrus
        * Cubs hire Maddon as manager, fire Renteria
        * Karen Lewis endorses Jesus Garcia for Chicago mayor
        * A stormy Lake Michigan swamps Lake Shore Drive – and sinks Chicago's mood
        * A stormy Lake Michigan swamps Lake Shore Drive — and sinks Chicago's mood


        * Garcia: I'm a serious mayoral candidate, not just a protest vote
        * Boy, 3, hit by car while trick-or-treating in Winnetka
        * On O’Hare noise, aldermen demand action, but get no satisfaction
        * A higher standard of criminal justice
        * Ex-Northwestern doctor to pay $475K to settle fraud claims
        * Sad day  when  Catholic  schools  close
        * Chicago bead merchant Ronnie Klein, whose Loop business drew stars, dead at 65
        * Chicago bead merchant Ronnie Klein, whose Loop business drew stars, dead at 65
        * Durbin, Oberweis square off for final time
        * State’s attorney investigating alderman’s prize offer to voters


        * 2 dead, 5 hurt in shootings since Friday evening
        * Police search for missing girl, 14, last seen Friday
        * Teen shot by police charged with attempted murder
        * Karen Lewis endorses Garcia for mayor in new video
        * Boy, 3, struck by car while trick-or-treating in Winnetka
        * Missing Garfield Ridge man located
        * Trial to begin for Darien man charged in 2012 killing
        * Alleged victims of ex-Wilmette teacher share memories online
        * New rules make Illinois voting easier
        * Federal judge refuses government request to close terrorism hearing


        * Scary Story: St. Michael And Mr. Pyles By H.W. Devlin
        * Dodging DUIs: Secretary of State Candidates Faceoff
        * Cook County posting indigent burials in 'virtual cemetery'
        * Whom do you trust when it comes to nutrition advice?
        * Zombie barge sinking in storm at Navy Pier
        * The digital afterlife
        * Making Buildings Healthier From The Inside Out
        * Scary Story: Planes By Ted Morrissey
        * Listen to State Week - October 31, 2014
        * "Monster Mash" Celebrates Halloween With Classical Music


        * E.J. Dionne: Moderate thunder out of Kansas
        * Charles Krauthammer: A referendum on competence
        * Quote of the Day: Nov. 1
        * State contribution to TRS to increase by $300 million next year
        * Former Gov. Edgar to campaign with Rauner
        * Esther Cepeda: Elizabeth Pena: Trailblazer on the big screen
        * Andy Shaw: Voter turnout instrumental to reform
        * Ty Fahner: What if the Court rejects pension reform?
        * Attorney general seeks clarifications from Topinka’s former nonprofit
        * Quote of the Day: Friday, Oct. 31


        * 40 North launches CSA for art
        * Minimum wage debate continues to rage
        * Look for a church that observes Advent
        * Presence to host open house at resource center
        * We need to eliminate the nanny government
        * Danville clinic wants to dispense medical marijuana
        * LETTER: Let the facts guide you on Election Day
        * State releases report card data for schools
        * Who lives here? Nov. 1, 2014
        * Confused about compost?


        * Naperville Central rallies for victory
        * Glen Ellyn moves forward on Lake Ellyn Park fixes
        * Glenbard West coach, others raising funds to fight Ebola
        * (No heading)
        * U-46 CEO: A few things could create $24 million deficit

        * Patrick Cannon defense strategy rare but n...
        * Feds fine Jesse Jackson Jr.'s campaign com...
        * Ex-Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. faces sen...
        * Representative Jan Schakowsky Sends Letter...
        * Rep. candidate pushes to uphold marriage b...
        * Reps. Schakowsky and Waxman Introduce Bill...
        * Statement by Representative Jan Schakowsky...
        * U.S. House Passes Resolution Condemning An...
        * FAA Rejects Call For New O'Hare Noise Stud...
        * Representatives Quigley, Duckworth, Schako...

        * Forget Halloween, members of Congress alwa......
        * Forget Halloween, members of Congress alwa......
        * Seib & Wessel: Durbin Puts Budget Deal Odd......
        * Senate Candidates On Climate Change...
        * Senate Candidates On Climate Change...

        * Boxer, Levin Warn Iran Sanctions May Derai......
        * New Sanctions Could Kill Iran Nuke Talks...
        * Tale of the tape: Obama's campaigning a fa......
        * Oberweis looking to unseat Durbin in U.S. ......
        * Sen. Mark Kirk questioned by Triton students...

        * Turn Back Time, And Enjoy An Extra Hour Of Sleep
        * ‘President Obama' runs around Chicago in Hazmat suit [video]
        * Online abortion course could endanger women's health, U of I expert says
        * Higgins: Closing argument on the Illinois election
        * Our America Fund launches series anti-Durbin ads [videos]
        * Excellent University Ideas That Can Help You
        * AFP Illinois fights 40 tax-raising referendum on Nov. 4th ballots
        * Weaponizing the Government [video]
        * IDOT Warns Drivers Of Stepped Up Halloween Weekend Enforcement
        * Facebook Conservatives lose board members over Rauner recommendation


        * Editorial: Governors, raining taxpayer $ on Illinois
        * Governor Quinn and Mayor Emanuel Thank New Safe Passage Workers - Nearly 700 Additional Workers Hired This Year to Serve 133 Schools, 69,000 Students Across the City
        * Editorial: Rauner best choice as governor to begin to reverse Illinois’ fortunes
        * Quinn to celebrate Rauner’s UI Labs accomplishment
        * Another Democrat Runs Away From Pat Quinn




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