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It’s time to start taking this threat seriously
Tuesday, Dec 6, 2016 - Posted by Rich Miller * Sun-Times…
We already know about these two demands in exchange for a stopgap, but have people really internalized them yet? All we’ve seen so far is straight reportage on his demands, but we are heading for a serious meltdown here and more people need to speak up. So far, I’m getting a lot of private feedback that people are still holding out beyond all hope for a deal. Does this sound like a deal is imminent? * No stopgap could mean very real problems. Social service agencies are already crumbling. You can kiss many of them goodbye if they don’t get any more cash. Same for some of our universities. And when a prison is about to close is he really gonna say “We’ll be glad to keep it open if we get term limits”? I went over some of the scenarios with subscribers last week. Suffice it to say here that the administration thinks it can tough it out, move money around and confine most of the damage to Democratic areas. But more people need to be demanding answers about what, exactly the future holds.
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- Thoughts Matter - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:03 am:
Rich. I’m represented by two Republicans who didn’t have opponents this fall. They both vote in lockstep with the governor. Neither seems interested in my opinion- at least they can’t seem to be bothered to even respond.
What exactly is it you would like us to do?
- RNUG - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:05 am:
Governors have an ability to move money around to some extent, but not to the extent that Rauner is implying. It used to be that about 10% of the budget could be moved at his discretion without the approval of the GA.
Not only are we headed for a fiscal meltdown, but there may be a constitutional one also.
- Dr X - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:06 am:
This came up in another post and there was no answer. Maybe it can be found here - what part of property tax gets frozen? Assessment? Taxin’ rate? Multiplier?
- Conn Smythe - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:06 am:
Also, to your second to last graph, Rich, that strategy becomes a heckuva lot more difficult with Mendoza in charge of the checkbook instead of Munger.
- wordslinger - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:07 am:
The Rauner administration believes that they can “confine most of the damage to Democratic areas.”
Is everyone OK with that?
Based on that confident and candid assessment from the Superstars, can we get a look at the Rauner plan for the damage to Democratic areas?
- OkComputer - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:07 am:
“confine most of the damage to Democratic areas”
Which election map are they using to allocate tax dollars? 2014 or 2016?
- OkComputer - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:09 am:
Just to be clear, it will be helpful for next election to know that if I vote for Rauner, and I turn my precinct from Blue to Red, that we may be in good enough graces to get our schools funded.
- Casual observer - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:09 am:
Is he going to try to raid the road fund before the lockbox amendment kicks in?
- Scamp640 - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:09 am:
The operation was a success, but the patient died.
- The Captain - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:10 am:
My expectation is that a prison riot will ultimately be the impetus for a budget deal.
Last summer when the six month stopgap budget was passed one key element that was well noted but often overshadowed by other spending issues was just how close corrections was to running out of necessary operating funds. I don’t know what kind of wizardry the budget and fiscal staffers have been performing to keep the state running but it has been no small miracle. Whatever miracles they have been able to perform happened while the Comptroller was an appointee of the Governor, it stands to reason that the budget office and the Comptroller’s office were able to work together to solve various crisis from time to time.
Now that the the Comptroller’s office has changed hands that relationship isn’t likely to be as accommodating. At some point the state will run into the same operating funds issue as before and the least flexible part of the operation is at corrections. Prisoners aren’t going to take it well if the prisons have no food or power, and it’s not like they can run to the store and go out of pocket for their own costs, they’re locked in prison.
As the absence of a budget once again deteriorates the state’s fiscal position keep an eye on corrections, it may end up being the pressure point that leads to progress.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:11 am:
===“I will insist that those be part of any stopgap plan, Rauner said. “Be ready, because that’s where we’re going.”===
Governor Rauner, Raunerites…
Let’s be very, very crystal clear. No ambiguity.
This is Gov. Rauner holding a state hostage, knowing full well… the cliff is there, and Rauner doesn’t care.
That’s the ball game now.
Fold, or I’ll destroy all YOU hold dear, this state of Illinois, and the safety and welfare of her, and the meltdown “is up to you” caving to my demands that can’t get 60 and 30 like other governors got before me.
Rauner is making clear, I will force pain, and Rauner will say, “Had you caved, it woulda been different”
No, Governor, the 2012 quote makes it clear, this isn’t a “happening of circumstance” it a “plan of cohersion and random”… no matter who gets hurt… for an un-passable agenda, that only an angered governor can’t see or “count”.
The Governor made a line. Rauner doesn’t mind if he “fails”.
If this fails, Rauner still wins. That’s the ball game too.
- Nick Name - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:11 am:
“Not only are we headed for a fiscal meltdown, but there may be a constitutional one also.”
“Suffice it to say here that the administration thinks it can tough it out, move money around and confine most of the damage to Democratic areas.”
I have to ask, and I hope I am not being alarmist or premature, but how much longer can Rauner continue to flout his duty, while using his office to bully and coerce the legislative branch of government, before people start seriously thinking of removing him from office?
Can we take two (and possibly six) more years of this?
- Chicago 20 - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:12 am:
The majority of us don’t have conversations with the Governor.
It’s the members of the media who collectively need to ask the Governor questions and demand real answers.
- Arsenal - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:15 am:
== confine most of the damage to Democratic areas==
Isn’t that where most of the state’s people live?
I want some more info about the property tax freeze. Does he still insist on the anti-prevailing wage language?
- Last Bull Moose - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:15 am:
RNUG is right on the limited ability to move money and on the Constitutional Crisis we face.
We learned with President Clinton that it is foolish to impeach without the votes to convict. With the new GA, getting a conviction will be difficult.It would take all the Democrats and 3 Republicans in the Senate. I don’t see that happening till services are stopped for some time.
As a private citizen, I see no legal way to effect change.
- Anon221 - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:15 am:
“We already know about these two demands in exchange for a stopgap, but have people really internalized them yet?”
Answer… No. I think it was the Simon Institute’s poll that showed 62% of the people in Illinois aren’t feeling the effect of the budget issues, but freeze property taxes, for instance, and they will. Again, it sounds good to let local people control their local tax rates, but what are the possible repercussions??? K-12 schools have had to go to the ballot box for years with different ways to try and make up for the large hole left by the state in funding, and many times are shot down by the voters. Just wait until the Transportation Lockbox kicks in with cries of what’s legal and what’s not. Local control is just another “squirrel” set loose by Rauner as part of his TA. Madigan and Unions- detach, denounce, destroy. THOSE are the ultimate goals. Chaos Crisis in the meantime is the gameplan.
- Commonsense in Illinois - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:17 am:
It seems to me there is little focus on the state’s budget, revenue shortfalls or substantive reforms in favor of laser-like focus by Governor Rauner and (primarily) Speaker Madigan to destroy the other. Does either even have a six-month budget document prepared?
I’m finally at the point where I think each has decided to grasp each other in a death grip and hurtle themselves off a cliff - survivor takes all.
- RNUG - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:17 am:
I’m beginning to think the only solution before 2018 is for the GA to either start a R word or start impeachment proceedings.
- Give Me A Break - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:18 am:
I’m not sure what more human service providers can at this point. How many more times can you explain to your lawmakers the number of jobs that are being lost in their districts and the harm program cuts and eliminations are causing and driving up costs to local governments like jails?
I’m sorry, but if a member of the General Assembly is not motivated to change their approach by seeing jobs lost in their districts and watching human services cuts impact their voters, that member is simply nothing more than a warm body who should evaluate why they are a member of a legislative body charged with representing their area of the state.
- cdog - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:18 am:
Dr. X, I had read previously that all taxing bodies’ rates would be frozen, and the only way available to increase a rate was via voter referendum.
This center-right independent likes this idea just fine.
- a priori - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:22 am:
We have term limits, they are called elections.
Moreover, a good argument can be made that state legislative term limits violate voting rights of citizens. At least four State Supreme Courts have overturned such term limits: Oregon, Massachusetts, Washington, and Wyoming. I wonder if the Illinois Supreme Court would have similar views on the issue. Does anyone know?
We don’t have term limits on Governors in Illinois either, FYI.
- Stumpy's bunker - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:22 am:
The Vichy Republicans have been readying their Pandora’s box for some time…and its now pulsing and ready to fly open.
I’d advise social services, Chicago State and Eastern to take evasive action…tough to do when you’re a stationary target.
Interesting that the new Republican elite wants term limits, which is merely a subversion of the democratic process.
- estubborn - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:27 am:
Democrats should pass term limits on the Office of the Governor and call it reform
- Unsolicited Advice - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:29 am:
We haven’t really gone without some form of “stopgap.” If they don’t at least to keep Fed dollars flowing, I’m not sure how they avoid having to send a bunch of state workers with federally funded positions home or loosing millions in fed dollars. I hope the superstars have that all worked out.
- Nick Name - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:30 am:
Meanwhile, both chambers in the GA have scheduled two days of session, Jan. 9 & 10, prior to the opening of the 100th GA on Jan. 11.
- DuPage - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:30 am:
So Rauner is raising the stakes, he now demands Turnaround Agenda items be included even in a stopgap budget. If they start giving Rauner TA items for a stopgap in January, what will he demand in July? As the saying goes, once you start paying blackmail, they will be back for more.
- Skeptic - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:31 am:
“I’m beginning to think the only solution before 2018 is for the GA to either start a R word or start impeachment proceedings.” Or the R’s could just turn their back on him. His money is no good if no one will take it.
- Honeybear - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:33 am:
Look I don’t know what it’s like to live in a failed state but I do know what it’s like to work in a failed city. East St. Louis is literally a ruin. Minimal services ei buildings just burn down regularly. There was a dead body in the street a month ago. People are insulated from poverty and want right now. If the state melts down it will be just like a nuclear meltdown only with economics. It will literally make parts of the state uninhabitable. Other parts you can go only for short times. Look most people on this blog have NO idea what would happen if we melt down. Poverty doesn’t get solved in good times. When you become poor studies show you stay that way.
- train111 - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:34 am:
Que up a year of negotiating the size and shape of the table they will meet around.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:39 am:
“once you start paying blackmail, they will be back for more.”
If you dont believe this, just ask Sandack
- DuPage Moderate - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:40 am:
Good. Light a fire to this cesspool. This isn’t a new problem. The Democrats and complicit Republicans have known that this day was coming for 20 years - and they’ve done nothing to prevent it. Fundamental change is and has been needed. If nobody is going to do anything to effect it, maybe this is necessary.
- Higher Ed - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:46 am:
=the administration thinks it can tough it out, move money around and confine most of the damage to Democratic areas.=
Well, with the help of IBHE, EIU and WIU got emergency funding recently and they are both in Republican areas. CSU got a little and the rest of the universities were left out.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:48 am:
===If nobody is going to do anything to effect it, maybe this is necessary.===
Once Eastern and Chicago State close, that’s it.
Did Rauner run on closing state universities?
Once social service groups fold, less The Ounce, they don’t come back.
Did Rauner run on the purposeful deception of signing contracts to dismantle social service groups?
Once Western loses accreditation and UIUC crosses the line of losing a billion (with a b) dollars in funding (they’re at $750 million), will they come back?
I don’t remember Rauner running on the de-accreditation of Western and chocking UIUC by a billion dollars.
When prisons find they can’t function even more now, by the funding drying up and safety concerns mounting, how will that recover.
I don’t recall Rauner running to make our prisons more dangerous for inmates and prison workers by drying up funding.
I have no idea what amount of monies Rauner even wants spent on ANY of the above if they can even exist.
What is the cost of being held hostage?
Dunno.
- Formerpol - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:54 am:
Have the Dems made any effort at all to compromise on the ‘turnaround agenda’ to get a budget. As Rahm has said, ‘elections have consequences’. My neighbors all blame Madigan for the problem, and many are Dems.
- Lincoln Clay - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 10:55 am:
=the administration thinks it can tough it out, move money around and confine most of the damage to Democratic areas.=
Maybe some of this “damage” will finally convince those that live in Democratic areas to finally get off their keisters and vote in a non-presidential election. Color me skeptical, but maybe.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:02 am:
That so many citizens of this state are being damaged by this governor is and has been alarming. Has any state ever had a “leader” inflict so much devastation on the state he/she was elected to run? And the better question is, why is this just proceeding as business as usual? People should be mad as hell and demanding that we get our state back. For our governor to be the face of what is happening and own it and that it’s a-ok is just insanity to me. It isn’t unreasonable to question this man’s mental state.
- Piece of Work - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:03 am:
Rauner has shown he is willing to negotiate, MJM wants EVERYTHING his way.
Those are just the facts boys and girls.
- Norseman - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:04 am:
I’ve wondered for some time if Rauner has been playing fast and loose with the ambiguity of the pay court order. There has been a lot of hiring and how do you give pay raises without an approp. My understanding of the court order was that existing employees would continue to get paid. This would not be carte blanche to give raises and hire new staff.
Now that his wing man is gone, perhaps we’ll see more questions raised about how Rauner is “managing” without a budget. Mendoza’s election can mean more than the loss of a few GOP jobs and a blow to Rauner’s ego.
- m - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:07 am:
-Rauner still thinks he can coerce change out of Dems by letting services wither in their areas.
-But the reality has been that Dems (leadership at least or especially) is more than willing to let the damage go on because they have someone (Rauner and R’s) to blame it on politically.
That’s the impasse.
Madigan has called a lot of bluffs in his time and refused to work with Gov’s (from both parties) until they came along to his way of doing things. That hasn’t worked with Rauner, at least not yet.
Until either Rauner changes his strategy or Madigan becomes willing to give on anything, we’ll be right where we are.
So you figure out how to change on of those two things, or you figure out how to live with it.
- walker - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:08 am:
Maybe a Griffin or Pritzker can jump in to feed inmates and pay guards before that system erupts. /s
- Stuart Shiffman - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:08 am:
I believe I have posted this before, but the real problem here is the continued approval by the courts of spending without an actual budget. Everybody gets the benefit of keeping the government operating without consequence. No budget should mean that not one penny of state money is spent. If that happened then the public would immediately demand accountability from both sides.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:09 am:
- Piece of Work-
All hostage-takers want to negotiate.
That’s why they take hostages.
Keep up.
- LessAnon? - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:10 am:
Downstate public transportation is hanging by a thread - some have already closed. They’re somewhere around $200 million owed to downstate transit. Imagine what will happen if bus service across downstate Illinois has to shut down. Doctors appointments, dialysis, job losses. It’s VERY close.
- PoW - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:16 am:
Actually Willy, all hostage takers don’t want to negotiate.
You should know better.
Keep up.
- Rufus - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:16 am:
Term limits makes no help in boosting the economy.
Property Tax freeze will hurt every public school (Springfield 186 approved a 2.5% increase - to rise $95 million, say the State owes them $10 mil)
- Arsenal - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:16 am:
==Have the Dems made any effort at all to compromise on the ‘turnaround agenda’ to get a budget.==
Haven’t they voted multiple times for a property tax freeze?
Madigan’s talked up worker’s comp reform, and Cullerton’s pension reform bill has Rauner’s stamp of approval.
- Annonin' - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:17 am:
have Ds made an effort to compromise?
Yup
You might remember both houses passed WC is ‘15 but BigBrain needed to bring down media incomes to achieve the 1%er victory
They also bought into the secret P3 econ development scheme
Next question
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:18 am:
- Piece of Work -
===“I will insist that those be part of any stopgap plan, Rauner said. “Be ready, because that’s where we’re going.”===
Read. Learn.
This IS a hostage taker asking for a plane to Ecuador and $7 million in unmarked $10 bills not in sequential order.
Read.
- NeverPoliticallyCorrect - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:19 am:
I have said this before but it bears repeating. Rauner didn’t create this mess. 20 years of political ineptitude created this mess. You may not like some of his solutions but the Dems have completely abandoned our state over the last few years. Mr. Madigans unwillingness to negotiate is bringing the state down. If he only wants things as they have been then ya’ll better start praying or packing because things are going to get far, far worse before the whole edifice collapses.
- Lech W - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:19 am:
HB 6630 - the Gov’s freeze bill. The levy dollars that all taxing bodies would be permanently frozen at the 2016 levy year rate …”Amends the Property Tax Code. Provides that, beginning with the 2016 levy year, the Property Tax Extension Limitation Law applies to all taxing districts, including home rule units. Provides that, beginning with the 2016 levy year, the extension limitation under the Property Tax Extension Limitation Law is 0% or the rate of increase approved by the voters.”
- David - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:20 am:
Rnug is right it’s time to end the vandalism
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:21 am:
- m -
===So you figure out how to change on of those two things, or you figure out how to live with it.===
Hmm…
===“I will insist that those be part of any stopgap plan, Rauner said. “Be ready, because that’s where we’re going.”===
Rauner has made it clear, he’s holding hostages, comply.
Same as 2012, same as Rauner has been since taking the oath.
But, you already know that.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:25 am:
When Rauner finds 60 and 30…
Until then, Rauner hostage, the state of Illinois will be hurt by the RaunerS until Bruce’s demands are met.
Bruce Rauner says so… read above.
- walker - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:29 am:
Some hostage takers always planned to kill the hostages anyway.
- Just Because - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:30 am:
Federal labor law’s might come into play with no court order/ budget….
- illinifan - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:30 am:
I hate to say this but I agree with Mitch McConnell on the issue of term limits, this is called an election. So it is time to move that off the agenda and property tax reform should be part of a discussion on general tax reform in Illinois. Let’s get the budget done, then look at reforming the tax system. I know R does not want to give up this little leverage, but toddlers learned a long time ago that holding your breathe and throwing a tantrum does not accomplish much. If he can’t figure out how to negotiate with a tough cookie like Madigan then what good is he.
- m - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:31 am:
=But, you already know that.=
So you’re agreeing with me?
=That’s why they take hostages.=
That’s why they often get paid.
Whether you are disgusted by the approach or not, hostage taking isn’t new to Illinois government.
“You want your member initiative money?”
“Sorry your bridge didn’t fit into our capital plan.”
“You want same sex marriage? I want concealed carry.”
etc.
You generally get two choices in a hostage situation.
-Pay up and get what you want back.
-Watch the hostage die while you take solace in the moral victory of “not giving in.”
If its your loved one being held, or the program you need that’s being held, which choice do you want your lawmaker to make?
Of course there is the third option, but whether in Hollywood or real life, storming the hostage taker is very likely to spill a lot of blood, including what you’re wanting to save.
Right now were’ seeing the results of the “moral victory” approach. So find another way or be part of the mess.
- Norseman - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:36 am:
=== Federal labor law’s might come into play with no court order/ budget…. ===
Only if you expect people to work with no pay. That’s why it’s called a shutdown.
- PoW - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:41 am:
Willy, really, you are sharper than you are showing.
MJM had held the middle class hostage thru all of this and doesn’t miss a minute of sleep. It’s all about the power man. The guy shows up when he wants, names someone as a “negotiator” and tries to discard anything and everything Rauner wants to do.
A junior high kid knows if just the budget got negotiated NOTHING from Rauner would ever be touched.
- AlfondoGonz - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:44 am:
I hope some of you people defending the Governor’s actions don’t actually believe the nonsense you’re offering.
“Do as I say or watch your state burn” isn’t much of an offer.
The guy has gone from dopey poser to affirmatively evil.
- Arsenal - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:47 am:
==A junior high kid knows if just the budget got negotiated NOTHING from Rauner would ever be touched.==
We’re missing the step where that makes shutting down charities, schools, etc. OK.
Like, Rauner couldn’t get his ideas passed without holding the budget hostage. OK, granted.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:48 am:
===A junior high kid knows if just the budget got negotiated NOTHING from Rauner would ever be touched.===
So that’s why…
===“I will insist that those be part of any stopgap plan, Rauner said. “Be ready, because that’s where we’re going.”===
Rauner is holding the hostage of this state and more than willing to hurt this state, as you say, because Rauner believes, as you do, that Rauner “gets nothing”
Rauner should get 60 and 30.
That’s what this is about. Rauner can’t get 60 and 30 with his Agenda, so hold the state hostage.
I’m only have as smart as you think, and since your mocking says your respect is low, rest assured, your mocked “pandering” is noted. Ugh.
When Rauner can get 60 and 30 on the steps with microphones and cameras, like all hostage takers, demands can be met.
This is leveraging by Rauner, who lacks 60 and 30.
- Arsenal - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:49 am:
==A junior high kid knows if just the budget got negotiated NOTHING from Rauner would ever be touched.==
Yes. And?
Rauner’s ideas aren’t so singularly and self-evidently brilliant that they deserve to be passed at whatever the cost. In fact, a lot of us think they’re at best useless, at worst actually harmful to the state. That he can’t get them passed on their own merits is true, but it doesn’t justify shutting down charities, schools, etc.
- Ebenezer - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:57 am:
So no budget before a complete shutdown then? (schools & prisons, etc.)
- m - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 11:57 am:
=This is leveraging by Rauner, who lacks 60 and 30.=
And when Madigan gets 71, then he doesn’t need a gov’s sig and his demands can be met, i.e. tax hike and status quo.
How man vetoes did the House override? Did they even touch CPS?
So maybe since he can’t do anything without a gov’s sig, he might want to consider actually negotiating.
Right now, either term limits and prop tax freeze are so needed that they trump or a budget…
Or term limits and prop tax freeze are so bad that stopping them trumps a budget.
Accept the reality of it or not, those are the two sides.
You want to go in the district and tell everyone you couldn’t have a budget because we need two items so bad?
Or do you want to tell them that those two items are so bad that stopping them means no budget?
Pick your poison. But you know going in that one side of that polls a lot better…
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 12:02 pm:
- m -
Governors own. They always do.
That’s why it’s Rauner with the ultimatums in hopes of getting something, when he has nothing.
Also note “71″ never ever existed, Ken Dunkin did
Rauner runs statewide, is under water, and you wavy to talk about messaging?
There’s no poison, Rauner wants what Rauner can’t have.
The rest of your drivel is the phony, “the other side can’t too”.
The other side isn’t holding hostages.
Capiche?
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 12:04 pm:
- m -
You should be happy then. When Rauner blows up the state like the CPS Veto, you can blame Madigan for not compromising…
When Eastern and Chicago State closes, odds are, Governors get the bland for that.
Same as it ever was.
“Pat Quinn failed”.
‘Nember? I do, lol
- AlfondoGonz - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 12:10 pm:
OW, if you don’t mind, I’m going to quote you here.
“There’s no poison, Rauner wants what Rauner can’t have.
The rest of your drivel is the phony, “the other side can’t too”.
The other side isn’t holding hostages.”
Everyone who does not already understand this, please read this very, very closely and do your best to understand it. OW made it as clear as I think it can be made. To borrow his term of endearment, “restaurant quality.”
That’s where we stand. Neither man has what he needs to get what he wants. One man is threatening to drop the gallows on innocent bystanders. In that scenario, the greater of 2 evils should be apparent.
- Rabid - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 12:13 pm:
Getting desperate just strapped a timer on the hostages
- m - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 12:14 pm:
=Also note “71″ never ever existed, Ken Dunkin did=
I never said it did.
=Governors own. They always do.=
And your vague platitudes change what?
Rauner needs to get 60 and 30 to pass bills so he can sign them.
Madigan needs 71 to get around the gov sig and pass his own.
Neither one has that. No matter how many times you run the same diatribe about 60 and 30 or Raunerites, it doesn’t change the simple facts.
Neither side has complete control. So you’ve made it clear that you support the Madigan plan of “say no to everything”, but where is that leading us?
So you either wait it out until 2018 in hopes that Madigan can get 71 then, or that Rauner can get 60 and 30. Is that what you’re endorsing? You want to support the damage that will take place until then?
If term limits, prop tax freeze, workers comp reform, redistricting reform were all on the ballot, they pass with wild margins. I doubt anyone here would argue that.
So then the thing that is stopping us from having a budget is either a guy who is holding everything hostage until he gets passage of very popular ideas…
Or the issue is one side that is holding everything up to stop the people from getting from what they clearly want and support.
You can make a case that people don’t care about the collective bargaining stuff in Rauner’s prop tax idea. But you can satisfy the man and his supporters with those other bills and forget prop tax reform.
Both sides can easily end this now, but they outright refuse to do it. Put it on one guy all you want out of your personal hatred for him, but the other side isn’t really offering anything to help.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 12:20 pm:
(Tips cap, humbly, - AlfondoGonz -)
Take Rauner at his word, and remember that hostage-takers get more desperate as the clock gets to zeroes
- m - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 12:39 pm:
=Take Rauner at his word, and remember that hostage-takers get more desperate as the clock gets to zeroes=
So you’ve chosen your preferred route. Call the bluff, encourage the damage and a shut down. Maybe call it a moral victory? Maybe you and Madigan can smile as you watch.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 12:39 pm:
- m -
Rauner wants what he can’t have, his agenda. That’s the ball game.
Rauner attaching these ridiculous hostage-taking demands, THEN a budget, that’s all on Rauner and exactly why…
===“I will insist that those be part of any stopgap plan, Rauner said. “Be ready, because that’s where we’re going.”===
You are willfully ignorant that attaching things isn’t new, but like the sad “State House Chick”, you both fail that governors found 60 and 30, and Rauner can’t. There’s your difference.
I’m not choosing Madigan and “No”, I am saying “Rauner, find 60 and 30 like other governors, get on those steps and force the issue
Constantly repeating back what I type and by happenstance ignoring that… and trying to make it about Madigan?
Do better, that’s not even … funny bad.
Pay attention;
===“I will insist that those be part of any stopgap plan, Rauner said. “Be ready, because that’s where we’re going.”===
That’s Rauner realizing no 60 and 30 and taking hostages.
Madigan wants a budget, that Rauner won’t discuss.
Rauner gives that quote.
Madigan? No hostages. Never hostages.
Rauner needs 60 and 30, not hostages…
… A governor would own state universities closing. “Pat Quinn failed” tells me so.
=== Put it on one guy all you want out of your personal hatred for him, but the other side isn’t really offering anything to help.===
Making it about me isn’t making an argument.
I made my case “60 and 30″. Rauner can find it, why has g he?
Hostages. Rauner’s way.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 12:44 pm:
===So you’ve chosen your preferred route. Call the bluff, encourage the damage and a shut down. Maybe call it a moral victory? Maybe you and Madigan can smile as you watch.===
…as you cheer that Madigan hopefully gets the blame and Rauner’s 2012 plan hits “turbo” on the XBox?
You’re readily admitting Rauner is holding hostages, and that’s cool, and Rauner not seeking 60 and 30 isn’t the option, but blowing up the state is?
What other governor said “give me or the state ‘gets it’!”?
Speaks volumes about ya.
Not the same. It’s not even remotely honorable.
- Anon221 - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 12:48 pm:
-m- -”You generally get two choices in a hostage situation.
-Pay up and get what you want back.
-Watch the hostage die while you take solace in the moral victory of “not giving in.”
***
There is another outcome. See walker’s posting at 11:29. And, your second one above could easily apply to Rauner.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 12:51 pm:
===And, your second one above could easily apply to Rauner.===
No, it actually can’t.
How do I know?
Madigan sent Aprops to Rauner, Rauner vetoed every one but K-12.
Not “theory”, actual history.
I read - walker -, and I understand.
Where is the 60 and 30?
Do I find it at “BossMadigan.Com”?
See my point?
- walker - may be on the path, Rauner is burning the bridges along the way.
- Anon221 - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 12:56 pm:
OW- Agree, but take away K-12 (his “gift” to Dr. Rauner), and Rauner will start to feel the pain. Unfortunately, so will every legislator who tries to deny him that (those) line items. Rauner would rather indirectly inflict that pain under the guise of local control and the property tax freeze.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:00 pm:
===Unfortunately, so will every legislator who tries to deny him that (those) line items.===
… and that’s where the Democrats fail.
Candidate Rauner didn’t fail reminding everyone “governors own”
Democrats are just not wanting to enter any year of the 21st Century to make the obvious case Candidate Rauner made.
It’s easy because it’s true, but easy doesn’t mean lazy, so they need to work.
- ArchPundit - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:03 pm:
===A junior high kid knows if just the budget got negotiated NOTHING from Rauner would ever be touched.
Then he can spend his millions on legislative races and see if he can win majority support for his non-budget issues. That’s how government works.
- ArchPundit - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:14 pm:
===\My expectation is that a prison riot will ultimately be the impetus for a budget deal.
Literally they are going to burn it down.
- Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:43 pm:
Good for Mendoza to say Rauner’s non-budget items should be separated from the budget. Work on the budget. Part of economic health is tied directly to the budget, when we have enough money to pay those who do business with the state.
“they pass with wild margins”
So would the millionaire surcharge and minimum wage increase. We don’t see any hostage-taking over this.
As OW keeps saying, Rauner needs the votes. The votes aren’t there. Until he gets the votes, Let.It.Go.
- Steve Polite - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 1:57 pm:
Change is only good if it makes things better.
- m - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:22 pm:
=So would the millionaire surcharge and minimum wage increase. We don’t see any hostage-taking over this.=
Madigan isn’t running those bills either. He wants the issues to remain alive so they can keep using them in elections without dealing with any of the consequences of actually passing them. Different agenda, different goal. But yes, there are plenty of lawmakers on his side of the aisle who would like to see them on the board. He’s holding those bills hostage until he’s done using them.
Rauner wants to pass things he believes in.
- m - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:26 pm:
=So would the millionaire surcharge and minimum wage increase. We don’t see any hostage-taking over this.=
I should add, Madigan won’t run those for the same reason he won’t run TA bills. They might actually pass.
So who’s holding hostages again?
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:34 pm:
===I should add, Madigan won’t run those for the same reason he won’t run TA bills. They might actually pass===
LOL!
The TA…
Get 60 on those stairs, show those 60…
… like every single governor before him.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:36 pm:
===Rauner wants to pass things he believes in.===
Then Rauner can find the votes. Hostages? Rauner has that down cold.
60? 30? Where o where are the votes, I mean, Rauner believes, why the hostages if they’re such great ideas?
Get on those stairs! lol
- Honeybear - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 2:52 pm:
You don’t have to feed dead hostages. That’s a feature not bug. Darth Arduins epiphany
- PoW - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 3:02 pm:
Willy just wants Rauner to fold and do whatever MJM wants. Biggest RINO I’ve experienced.
Illinois citizens have seen this game before and know how it plays out. The train can only go off the tracks so many times……..
- Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 3:09 pm:
“He’s holding those bills hostage until he’s done using them.”
Not for budget negotiations. Madigan and Democrats are not using a millionaire surcharge and minimum wage increase as preconditions for a budget agreement.
The ramifications of Madigan’s hostage-taking of progressive legislation are nothing like holding an entire budget hostage.
“So who’s holding hostages again?”
Rauner is. Progressive income tax bills have been voted on as stand-alone legislation.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 3:15 pm:
Oh - Piece of Work -
Rauner isn’t a Republican, Rauner is a Raunerite.
I’m a Republican, making it about me isn’t making an argument, lol.
===Biggest RINO I’ve experienced.===
You shouldn’t be so hard on Rauner, Diana, Uihlein and Griffin are Raunerites too, LOL
I’m an Edgar Republican. All day, every day.
===Illinois citizens have seen this game before and know how it plays out. The train can only go off the tracks so many times…….===
I am excited you didn’t say taxpayers, so you pass, pathetically, but…
- m - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 3:16 pm:
=Get 60 on those stairs, show those 60…
… like every single governor before him. =
I tell you what, I’ll call you when Rauner gets 60 and 30, you call me when Madigan has 71. You dialing yet? Neither am I.
Or maybe better yet, you call me when Madigan releases his hostages and lets Rauner’s bills up on the board for a vote. I’ll call you when Rauner agrees to sign Madigan’s budget.
Still not dialing?
Ok, I’ll call when Rauner proposes a tax hike, you can call me when Madigan files one and calls it for a vote.
Still not dialing?
I don’t think either side has interest in releasing their hostages. Maybe we should do what grownups do in those situations and propose a hostage swap, you know, make a deal.
But heavens no, that would make too much sense.
- wordslinger - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 3:26 pm:
–Suffice it to say here that the administration thinks it can tough it out, move money around and confine most of the damage to Democratic areas. –
Would anyone in the Illinois media like to ask the governor or his peeps about that rather damning statement?
Get what they say, and follow up on what they do?
Seems like it could be a story, what with the plan for inflicting damage on certain areas based on voting patterns.
Don’t forget to ask what the good reason for it is.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 3:32 pm:
===Or maybe better yet, you call me when Madigan releases his hostages and lets Rauner’s bills up on the board for a vote. I’ll call you when Rauner agrees to sign Madigan’s budget===
LOL!
“Release the bills or the state gets it… Then pass a tax increase!”
Pure comedy! Vote against yourself, then pass a tax increase.
Why am I going there?
Easy, Rauner already vetoed a Madigan budget, less K-12 funding. Again, not fantasy, history.
===Ok, I’ll call when Rauner proposes a tax hike, you can call me when Madigan files one and calls it for a vote.===
Any budget requires revenue and Rauner’s signature.
Again, you keep going back to “… or the state gets it”… when those are realities.
The Rauner Tax will happen. It’s up to Rauner to get in front of his signature.
===I don’t think either side has interest in releasing their hostages.===
Madigan doesn’t have a hostage.
Rauner is holding up the budget on his own, the TA Bills don’t have 60 and 30.
Get on those stairs! Show me, lol.
===Maybe we should do what grownups do in those situations and propose a hostage swap, you know, make a deal.===
You can read right?
Rauner said, do what I say or the hostages get it.
You talk to him.
Anything else?
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 3:40 pm:
- Piece of Work -
Raunerites count Ken Dunkin as one of their own.
You’re welcome, lol
- Skeptic - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 3:49 pm:
“confine most of the damage to Democratic areas” Seems to me that He-Who-Is-Sitting-In-Prison tried to move a division out of an area represented by someone who voted unfavorably on an action, and the net result was an Abuse of Powers count . . or am I remembering that wrong? Or is that a horse of different color?
- Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 3:59 pm:
“make a deal”
We should just pass a budget and leave the rest as stand-alone bills. Let’s make a deal on spending and revenue.
- siriusly - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 4:21 pm:
The Democrats should not fall into the trap either. They should pass budget after budget and put them on his desk and make him veto them.
if they just sit there and do nothing and don’t even put a budget on his desk - he will win the message war - he controls the biased crooked media
- PoW - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 4:22 pm:
Grandson—-gives us an idea what the deal would be on spending and “revenue.”
Want to see what your position would be.
- A Jack - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 4:30 pm:
Rauner won’t call the stopgap a temporary budget because then he would have to admit he signed an 8 billion dollar hole into law. He thinks the electorate won’t be able to figure it out.
- m - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 5:08 pm:
=Easy, Rauner already vetoed a Madigan budget, less K-12 funding. Again, not fantasy, history.= And your point with that? Madigan didn’t pass the revenue, agreed to nothing else, and then that’s what happened.
I wasn’t putting ii in an order, sorry if you read it that way. I think there’s always an assumption it’s all agreed to before the fact, i.e. agreed process.
Doesn’t matter if you release the bills, or run the budget or tax hike first.
Madigan has already blocked the bills though, as he has does with all kinds of other good bills for decades. As you say, History, not fantasy. He’s had his hostages for a long time.
Remember pension reform? Cullerton had the guts and ability to call and defeat Madigan’s bill. Madigan simply refused to run Cullerton’s, leading us to the conference committee. That whole process was Madigan’s hostage, when he was able to get what he wanted, a bill passed.
=Get on those stairs! Show me, lol.=
That’s one of the worst ideas I’ve ever heard. Madigan still doesn’t call the bill, but now you have 60 and 30 bullseyes for him to hit. This isn’t polisci 100.
=Rauner said, do what I say or the hostages get it.=
And Madigan said “ok.” So you’re good with this situation and response plan?
How many bills did Rauner want to pass last year? How many did he whittle down to? Unfortunately for him, Madigan has him negotiating against himself, but at least he’s negotiating.
In all honesty, I think Rauner should cut his losses and look forward to 2018. Call Madigan’s bluff, give him a revenue and spending number, tell him he’ll sign that, but it’s on Madigan to lure R’s for votes. Let Madigan refuse to move a budget or taxes. Use it all in 2018. “This is what Mike Madigan forced us into.” But I don’t think he’ll do that. Most likely, Madigan will be more than happy to let the destruction continue until Rauner capitulates (so enjoy that process until Madigan wins), he’ll retain majorities (though slimmer), and nothing will ever get done unless the R’s get a map.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 5:33 pm:
===And your point with that?===
I’ve seen that movie.
No revenue? #TaxHikeMike. Rauner made sure, no revenue. K?
===Doesn’t matter if you release the bills, or run the budget or tax hike first.===
Not according to Rauner, that’s all that matters. Rauner is holding up the budget because of it.
===Madigan has already blocked the bills though, as he has does with all kinds of other good bills for decades. As you say, History, not fantasy. He’s had his hostages for a long time.===
They can discharge it if they had the votes. Get on those stairs, lol. Rauner says he has ALL these Dems, show him.
===That’s one of the worst ideas I’ve ever heard. Madigan still doesn’t call the bill, but now you have 60 and 30 bullseyes for him to hit. This isn’t polisci 100.===
Leverage creates opportunity. That’s Rauner 101, lol.
Rauner already has done the stairs bit, but you already know that.
===And Madigan said “ok.” So you’re good with this situation and response plan?===
Crisis creates leverage. Ok, let Rauner use that leverage. He’ll learn, as Quinn, Governors own. So… Rauner wants to hold hostages, that’s on him, not me.
===How many bills did Rauner want to pass last year? How many did he whittle down to? Unfortunately for him, Madigan has him negotiating against himself, but at least he’s negotiating===
No. Rauner realizes, all his fantasy… No 60, no 30… so negotiate against yourself. That Rauner, caving…
===Call Madigan’s bluff, give him a revenue and spending number, tell him he’ll sign that, but it’s on Madigan to lure R’s for votes.===
… That’s where Rauner has the $20 million, and why Madigan would tell Rauner to use it. Comical. You have a knack to make me laugh. Why?
===But I don’t think he’ll do that.===
Because it makes no sense.
===Madigan will be more than happy to let the destruction continue until Rauner capitulates===
These are Rauner hostages, Rauner even said so, LOL!
Seriously, you typed that. Rauner made clear, they are HIS hostages.
- Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 5:55 pm:
“Want to see what your position would be.”
I don’t know what it would be, beside a mix of increased revenue and spending reductions. I know we’re beyond broke, but I also know that the 2011 income tax increase helped us a lot while not being the job killer that certain interests keep threatening.
All I’m saying is let’s no longer hold up the budget over non-budgetary items like term limits. Because if we continue to do this, it just opens the entire can of worms. I’d like to start demanding marijuana legalization, minimum wage increase, worker protection laws, millionaire surcharge and other stuff that shouldn’t gum up one of our basic requirements–passing a budget.
- m - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 6:03 pm:
=Rauner is holding up the budget because of it.=
Rauner has been holding off signing budget until he gets an agreement, and you’re well aware of that. This new “pass now” business is about calling the dems out on “stopgap”. Foolish, but it is what it is.
=They can discharge it if they had the votes.=
What’s the vote to override the chair?
=These are Rauner hostages, Rauner even said so, LOL!=
Keep going with the circular logic. Madigan can call the bills. He refuses, his hostages too. Madigan has been holding budgets hostage for decades. Nothing new. Rauner holds his sig and sway over R’s, that’s it. Madigan can end it, but has no desire to. Rauner’s long-term goal is policy, whether you believe the policy is good or bad. Madigan’s longterm policy is politics and only the policy absolutely required to make the politics work.
Since you apparently haven’t followed the budget process, here’s how it goes most years:
Gov proposes one, gets ignored. During the last week of session, once Madigan has extracted whatever he wants from Cullerton, Madigan’s budget hostage is released and gets run through committees very quickly (typically in the morning), voted on before R’s (and often the gov) can even analyze it, then the gov can take it or leave it.
When govs have attempted to av or get tricky, things go downhill real quick.
Current process: Gov proposes budget, gets ignored. During the last week of session, once Madigan has extracted whatever he wants from Cullerton, Madigan’s budget hostage is released and gets run through committees very quickly (typically in the morning), voted on before R’s (and often the gov) can even analyze it, then the gov can take it or leave it.
Rauner got nothing from his TA except ignored, revenue was way short, he chose the av route, and here we are.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 6:05 pm:
1st - tip my cap to ya - GoM - for the reference…
2nd…
===All I’m saying is let’s no longer hold up the budget over non-budgetary items like term limits. Because if we continue to do this, it just opens the entire can of worms. I’d like to start demanding marijuana legalization, minimum wage increase, worker protection laws, millionaire surcharge and other stuff that shouldn’t gum up one of our basic requirements–passing a budget.===
This is really the crux of why Rauner’s leverage creates opportunity isn’t working, and you nailed it perfectly.
The budgetary ideals Rauner refuses to extol, but will continue to push non-budgetary items is the failure, let alone the left-handed failure beyond that with the refusal to count noses for these TA items that have no chance.
Well said, your response was on point. It’s about deflecting away from the hostages, and you called it out perfectly.
OW
- m - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 6:12 pm:
=All I’m saying is let’s no longer hold up the budget over non-budgetary items like term limits.=
Sounds like a great world to live in, but it hasn’t ever been Illinois in my lifetime.
But while we’re dreaming, maybe people could get to call bills even when the Speaker doesn’t agree with them. Maybe we could put policy over politics. Maybe, we wouldn’t have one person who so controlled the entire process for so long, along with most of the the money, so that maybe it wouldn’t take a billionaire to really challenge him and create all the current chaos in his inability to win against said person.
It all sounds good to me.
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 6:16 pm:
===This new “pass now” business is about calling the dems out on “stopgap”. Foolish, but it is what it is.===
… and that’s all on Rauner.
===Keep going with the circular logic. Madigan can call the bills. He refuses, his hostages too.===
Nope, calling the bills without 60 is wasting time and giving in to the hostage taker who… doesn’t have 60 to begin. That’s not circular, that’s “end of story”
===Madigan’s longterm policy is politics and only the policy absolutely required to make the politics work.===
Nah.
The Rauner Agenda V. The Democratic Policies.
That. That’s it.
Rauner wants Dems to vote against their constituencies and beliefs for his Agenda. That’s the ballgame. The politics is Rauner thinking he could leverage an Agenda over policies Dem believe in as Dems.
===Since you apparently haven’t followed the budget process, here’s how it goes most years:===
I have. Here’s the rub.
Unlike most years, MOUs… and lacking trust are going to be the norm. If you want to patronize, recognize what’s going on first. Ugh.
===Current process: Gov proposes budget, gets ignored. During the last week of session, once Madigan has extracted whatever he wants from Cullerton, Madigan’s budget hostage is released and gets run through committees very quickly (typically in the morning), voted on before R’s (and often the gov) can even analyze it, then the gov can take it or leave it.===
Trust.
#TaxHikeMike, letters from Goldberg, ads during session, now “BossMadigan.Com” and the ILGOP’s continued trolling.
You do those things, you get these things.
===Rauner got nothing from his TA except ignored, revenue was way short, he chose the av route, and here we are.===
… with “BossMadigan.Com”, more trolling, #TaxHikeMike and Rauner is confused why the MOUs…
Sometimes you bring upon yourself…
- Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 6:20 pm:
===Maybe, we wouldn’t have one person who so controlled the entire process for so long, along with most of the the money, so that maybe it wouldn’t take a billionaire to really challenge him and create all the current chaos in his inability to win against said person.===
LOL!
“Because… Madigan”
Oh boy.
===Sounds like a great world to live in, but it hasn’t ever been Illinois in my lifetime.===
Term Limits held up budgets in the past?
Very well, cite that.
“No, I’ll wait, thanks”
The Rauner asks don’t have 60 and 30.
Other governors moved on once they realized that. That rascal Rauner hasn’t learned that, or loves the pain he can inflict without a budget… exactly right.
- Norseman - Tuesday, Dec 6, 16 @ 7:11 pm:
=== Sounds like a great world to live in, but it hasn’t ever been Illinois in my lifetime. ===
Maybe things will get better after you graduate.
- ArchPundit - Wednesday, Dec 7, 16 @ 10:00 am:
===The Democrats should not fall into the trap either. They should pass budget after budget and put them on his desk and make him veto them.
This. Every day. Make him veto.