146 Comments - Killroy - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 7:06 am: The nightmare is finally over. - ihatepoliticalcorrectness - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 7:10 am: Rich, “so many consider racist”? check your damn facts buddy, its pretty obvious you didn’t go to school there, and aren’t very close to the situation at all. This whole movement was started by an ultra-liberal biology professor named Stephen Kaufmann who has no relation at all to any American-Indians, and over 95% of the protesters, students, etc who have talked, written, complained about this have NO relation to American-Indians. The point is not just the Chief, who is NOT a mascot. Does he roam the sidelines, do stupid cheers, appear at pep rallies or appear as some cartoon? No. This group not only wants the Chief retired, they want the name Illini retired because it’s offensive. So what’s next after that? The name Illinois? The name Illini is derived from our state’s name. I’m sorry, but who is Emil Jones to strongarm the University of Illinois by saying he will cut their funding if they don’t retire the Chief? Does he think he is Tony Soprano or something? He is using this issue as nothing but for political gain. Maybe you should do some more research yourself, spend some time on the U of I campus, talk to more alumni, and then maybe you can grasp this situtation instead of trying to trivialize it from your assumed “moral high-ground”. - Leroy - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 7:11 am: Yet another indian driven from the state…what is this, 1820? These intolerant people won’t be happy until even the memory of indians is dead and buried. - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 7:24 am: “ihatepoliticalcorrectness” you trivialize the issue by claiming the opposition is the result of one person’s work. You want to support this racist mascot, fine. But don’t obfuscate the issue. - ihatepoliticalcorrectness - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 7:37 am: Racist? Are you serious? Do you know that the students who portray chief Illiniwek are taught by Indians all of the customs, culture, as well as the dance? I trivialize nothing. I give you the facts, and you hide behind a veil of political correctness in your cozy office away from the whole situation, and it is painfully obvious you know extremely little about the entire situation, and refuse to take the time to learn about it. The Chief performs to honor our state & the indians who once lived here. There have been more American Indians on record saying the are NOT offended than the ones who have. And by the way, the ones who have testified on behalf of the anti-Chief group were flown in by Prof. Kaufmann from Idaho & Arizona. Several Reservation Chiefs have gone on record saying they don’t care about the Chief and that there are more important & serious issues that American Indians face which this anti-chief protest group does nothing about. Rich, if you don’t know the facts, and care not to do any real research on the situation, then you don’t deserve an opinion. Because your current one reeks of ignorance. Not because you disagree with me, but because you don’t know anything about Chief Illiniwek, the tradition, the situation, nor the aims of the anti-Chief group and the things they have done to make the climate at the University of Illinois a hostile one. I’m also guessing you haven’t talked to anyone with any American-Indian decent. I challenge you to take some actual time doing some research, instead of making a blanket “racist” stereotype of the tradition. it’s easy to play that card when you are miles awya from what’s actually going on. - Arthur Andersen - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 7:40 am: Rich, set aside the racist symbol issue for a moment. A big part of the Pro-Chief group’s beef has been that they represent generations of loyal alums, faculty, and financial supporters of the UI with the majority point of view on the issue. Their views are being sublimated to those of a smaller group whose ties to the UI send to be much more transient than the pro-chiefers. The “consensus conclusion” set forth by Larry Eppley, a very good guy and a very patient Board chair, had a chance at working until the new Board member shows up, and in violation of all Board policies on this matter, says to a reporter, “Emil told me he’s got to go.” If this is happening when it’s happening because “Emil told me he’s got to go,” there are bigger problems at the UI than the Chief even after he’s danced his last. - oechmd - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 7:45 am: Rich I didn’t go to U of I, but do actively support their athletic programs. I am neither a Chief lover or hater. Your “…support this racist mascot…” comment is inflammatory and simply suggestive of what aggravates so many people these days: if someone else does, says, believes, or supports, anything that might be remotely offensive to someone else, then parade your hurt feelings out to the media, expound upon the great harm you have endured, wait for the usual bandwagon jumpers to show up in support of you, and then cry until you get your way. Sometimes I just wish more people would grow up, shut up, and spend their emotion on truly significant issues. - Honest Abe - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 7:47 am: Where does the politically correct insanity stop? Whatever became of history and tradition? In Berwyn, not noted for its Native American population, a public school was renamed because George Armstrong Custer had fought against Indians on the frontier and this was viewed as objectionable (he also fought in the Civil War for the Union Army which helped to free the slaves, but this was forgotten). Too many of the politically correct mavens engage in “presentism” deriding past figures for failing to engage in conduct in conformity to present day orthodoxy. What’s next? Renaming every city, county and state that has an Indian derived name? - Anonymous - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 8:12 am: I love this issue - there is no quicker, easier litmus test for idiocy. Anybody other than the handful of students who portrary the chief who gives half a damn about this is an idiot, no further questions necessary. Grow up, people! - Bill - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 8:17 am: Dudes, It is an NCAA rule. Why should UofI watse time and resources fighting this inconsequential, meaningless regulation. UIUC is a mediocre school, with poor graduation rates for athletes and other students, lousy sports teams, in the middle of a corn field, that sucks up tax dollars. Close the place and the issue will go away. - 105th Blues - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 8:18 am: The most annoying thing about Native mascots in American sports is that non-Native people expect Native people to be honored by the fact that they are represented (or misrepresented) by these symbols. Chief Illiniwek is a prime example of honoring gone awry. Chief Illiniwek’s supporters point to the long history of their mascot as a valid argument for retention of the mascot. Amos and Andy were also popular, but we no longer put up with that type of representation either. If Native American were respected as members of our country then perhaps we wouldn’t have these issues to debate. - anon - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 8:19 am: “Sometimes I just wish more people would grow up, shut up, and spend their emotion on truly significant issues.” Maybe Emil should too; schools, pension deficit, budget deficit, debt, poverty in IL etc, etc. - Larry Mulholland - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 8:27 am: The issue should not be decided by emil or the courts! - ihatepoliticalcorrectness makes a point I had not thought of…. What about the name of our great state of Illnois? It too is named for an Indian tribe or sioux city. Where does it stop? And why is it stopping? Who is truly offended? It is certainly not the descendant tribes who train the chiefs to honor the fighting Illini - Truthful James - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 8:28 am: Maybe he could be replaced by a Chief Emil, all decked out in regalia with the insignia of Excelon and the NEA - Truthful James - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 8:29 am: With a sign on his derriere “This Space For Rent, Inquire Within” - ihatepoliticalcorrectness - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 8:29 am: to Bill & 105th Blues. the university had the support from the descendants of the Illini tribes when the tradition started, and even were supplied the regalia & teachings from those descendants. The problem arises now is that those descendants have past away, and there are no living members or relatives of the Illini tribe. And when Sports Illustrated did a pole a few years ago on this issue, more than 85% of American Indians wh participated had no problem with Chief Illiniwek, their beef was with cartoons such as Chief Wahoo of the Cleveland Indians, and uses of the name Redskins because it is defamating. Like I said otherwise, the protesters who are making an issue of Chief Illiniwek being racist are in fact NOT AMERICAN INDIAN. And Bill, by the way, that NCAA rule is a crock of S***. They say that Chief Illiniwek is racist, but that the Seminole Mascot at Florida State is not. There is no difference, except that the Seminole Tribe verbally supports Florida State’s use of their symbol. The University of Illinois does not have anymore living Illini Tribe membesr to vouch for their support because they are no surviving members. The current costume was donated to the Unversity of Illinois, though they insisted upon paying Chief Fools Crow anyway. You two are just like Rich, you base your opinions on headlines & hearsay, instead of seeking the true facts of the case. - frustrated GOP - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 8:31 am: as an Alum I don’t have a problem ending the chief, but not like this. It’s smacks of the colts leaving Baltimore in the night, the Firing of Archabald Cox. Come on, vote to complete and at the begininig of the first home football game next year do it in a way that represents what this has meant to the University for the last 80 years. And last I checked it isn’t a mascot but a person doing a symoblic dance. - Fire Ron Guenther - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 8:43 am: Getting rid of the Chief is one thing. To do it on such short notice is quite another. It could have been announced in the fall and Chief Illiniwek would have been given a proper farewell. - Jacques Strappe - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 8:46 am: This may be a small point, but you can’t confirm a story enough to go to print with “off the record” sources. You can, however, go on the air/blog/print with “on background” sources. - Pat Collins - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 8:51 am: s a mascot that so many consider racist Because, Rich, it means that some people’s opinions count more. I (and many others) consider “La Raza” to be quite racist. Will they change their name now? I won’t hold my breath. And I won’t mention MEChA’s “Por La Raza todo, Fuera de La Raza nada”. Is Sen. Jones making sure there are no chapters at IL’s public schools? Does he ask the U Chicago’s chapter to renounce that phrase? - Ali Bin Haddin - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 8:55 am: Let the Chief rest in peace. The only suitable replacement would be Al Capone. - Robbie - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 8:56 am: IHPC - you need a reality check. It’s just a mascot man. If it offends 1 person shouldn’t that be enough? I personally didn’t go to UofI so you cna use that as a reason to discard my opinion, but I personally don’t see the need to keep Illiniwek around. It is also my recolleciton that a major reason for getting rid of the chief was because he is a misrepresentation of local indian tribes. How cna the chief be honoring local traditions when his regalia is from the Lacota Sioux tribe? IHPC, you also try to trivialize this into a few crazies that are pushing the agenda. You might be suprised to know that the National Congress of American Indians and the National Indian Education Association both support ending the chief. But I guess since you have 1 indian friend who kinda likes the idea, that makes it ok. Rich - Don’t know if you have seen this, but one of the current chief guys is from Galesburg. The Register Mail posted an article late yesterday about the 2 guys that play the chief starting a lawsuit to keep the chief from being eliminated. http://www.register-mail.com/stories/021507/MAI_BCD6QR1I.GID.shtml - Mad Conservative Crimefighter - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 9:03 am: Rich…you got SQUASHED bad. BTW, did you ever ask the Florida Seminoles if their indian mascot is racist? - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 9:08 am: Go ahead, bash away. Just remember this: If I believe something or someone to be racist, I will speak out. Some of the same people who defended that twit Limbaugh for his bigoted remarks are on here defending the Chief today. At least you’re consistent. But it shows me a lot. - 105th Blues - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 9:09 am: IHPC, now I get it, I need to take an opinion poll of Native Americans to determine if the Chief mascot is really inappropriate rather than the implications or interpretation. I guess using your logic if you’re not Native American, you really shouldn’t have an opinion one way or the other on this issue? Maybe we could’ve taken opinion polls of African Americans in the South in 1950 to determine if some of the rules or practices they were subjected to were ok too? I’m glad to see Sports Illustrated involved in this and taken seriously as they are clearly an objective measurement of popular sports culture and their word is final. Did it ever occur to you that maybe allot of folks don’t want to start trouble or be caught up in controversy so they might say they are “ok” with something when they really are not? - Retire the Chief - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 9:10 am: As an alum, I hope the University follows through and retires the Chief. There is no honor or respect in having a white student dressed up as a fake Indian doing a silly dance routine. Moreover, this activity takes place at sporting events that have nothing to do with Native American culture or traditions. - Robbie - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 9:11 am: MCC - there is a big difference between Illinois and Florida State. FSU is supported by the seminole tribe while the closest tribe to the Illini heritage does not support UIUC. - Drew - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 9:15 am: Bill, the web browser you used to post your comment was developed at the UIUC campus. They have also produced Nobel Prize winners, a little something called the MRI, and countless other break throughs. Any objective, informed person would agree that UIUC and the broader U of I is one of the country’s great public universities. Your comment speaks more to your understanding of the campus than the institution’s integrity. I may not agree with the Anti-Chief point of view, but it is clearly a debatable siutation. The institution’s academic integrity is not. Get a clue, “dude.” - I love the Chief - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 9:21 am: But I am deeply offended by the Fighting Irish. - HoosierDaddy - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 9:22 am: I’m just waiting for someone to be offended by the term “Hoosier.” As a side issue, what troubles me is that an unelected bunch of politically correct autocrats can push around the elected trustees of a governmental organization. What’s wrong with this picture? On that issue alone, race-baiting hype aside, I hope the students win their lawsuit. It’s time for the NCAA to be taken down a few pegs. - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 9:24 am: HoosierDaddy, the trustees aren’t elected, they’re appointed by the governor and confirmed by the Senate. Have been for quite some time now. So much for your argument. - irishpirate - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 9:26 am: Phil Kadner in the Daily Southtown had a great column on this a few years back. He called da chief “Silly White man who dances”. I find the whole controversy silly. But then I find may U of I alums who take this seriously silly also. Watch Joel Weisman on Chicago Tonight the Week in Review for an example. He almost seems likes he wants to cry when he talks about this issue. I went to a funeral a few years back for a classmate of mine and another classmates main topic of conversation was the Chief “controversy”. Not the untimely death. Not the upcoming elections. Not the war in Iraq………nope the only conversation worth having………….Chief Illinwek. Of course he was in a fraternity at U of I and still talks about his “brothers”. - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 9:28 am: And to those of you who keep comparing the Chief to the Fighting Irish, please show me one major (even minor) Irish or Irish-American group that opposes Notre Dame’s mascot or nickname. I realize some of it is snark, but others appear to be serious. Until you can come up with an answer, your arguments hold absolutely no water. And it’s not about the word Illinois or Illini. It’s about the racist mascot. So, please, stop bringing up that red herring. It’s disingenuous and makes you look silly. - IlliniPundit - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 9:32 am: Thanks, Rich, for the link and acknowledgement. - Morrow Plotting - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 9:38 am: I am a lifelong resident of Illinois and a double-degree alumnus of the University of Illinois. However, because I oppose the Chief, some people say my opinion doesn’t count — I’m just some outside agitator or blind devotee of Stephen Kaufman. (As an aside, I think Native American alumn Charlene Teters is generally credited with starting the anti-Chief movement, not Prof. Kaufman. But why interject historical accuracy into this debate now?) I know many, many alumni who oppose the Chief. Anyone who says all alumns buy into that “honored tradition” B.S. is either lying or ignorant. Same goes for anyone who pretends Native Americans as a group don’t mind the Chief. Every major Native American organization that’s taken a stand on the Chief has come out in opposition. The Peoria Tribe, the closest descendants of the Illini, have come out in opposition. The Sioux tribe that gave us the Chief’s outfit just recently came out in opposition. It’s fine to say you support the Chief. Just please, don’t try to speak on my behalf as an alumn. And please, please don’t try to speak on behalf of the Native Americans you claim to want to honor. Instead of honoring them by ignoring their concerns, maybe you could instead honor them by hearing them when they tell you the Chief is an insult not an honor? The redface minsterel show my tax-supported Alma Mater continues to use as its mascot is an embarrassment, and the sooner it ends, the better. - Telluride - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 9:41 am: Rich– Please follow up on what becomes of the “asset” of the Chief. If there is profit making potential for the trademark and image of the Chief on sportswear, coffee mugs etc…, the UI baord should not just give that away. - Fan of the Game - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 9:42 am: Rich, The whole concept of banning American Indian mascots and team names began with the calls to remove the caricatures like Cleveland’s Chief Wahoo and demeaning names. The tide has now moved to ban any symbol and/or name. In the slippery slope that is political correctness, it is not a stretch that some will call for the abolishment of the Illini name. Robbie, You write, “If it offends 1 person shouldn’t that be enough?” In regard to Rich’s comment about the Fighting Irish, I am sure there is at least one person of Irish descent who finds the caricature demeaning and deplores the implication that Irish folk are hot-headed and prone to violence. Is that one person enough to change the name and mascot? - 105th Blues - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 9:43 am: Isn’t it a licensed logo through the University? If the University gives that up I’d imagine somebody could race out and get it trademarked for themselves and make a ton ‘o money over time? - 105th Blues - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 9:45 am: The UIUC website sez: “Prior written approval is needed for campus groups, registered student organizations, or sports clubs from the Trademark and Licensing Office and the Collegiate Licensing Company (the university’s licensing agent) for use of the university name or marks for anything other than official university business. This also applies to student groups and organizations who wish to make use of the university name in conjunction with their group or activities, or those groups desiring use of the university’s identifying marks.” So it is a trademark owned by the U of I. If they retire the Chief and quit using the logo, does that mean they give up the trademark? That’s where the real money is folks and it would be interesting to see if they put their money where their mouth is on this issue. - I love the Chief - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 9:51 am: I am Irish….and I am now offended. That’s enough isn’t it? And at what point to we begin to judge the validity of the offense. Wasn’t it the decendants of the various tribes that adorned the chief with his regala and dress in the first place? Didn’t these very tribes once support the chief? Why don’t we look at those facts of support instead of some 5th generation American born citizen for what is truly offensive. But I guess since I’m a 5th generation born American citizen of Irish decent, I am free to be offended as well…and let my offense dictate history and NCAA policy. What a joke….offended by a mascot….what is this country coming to? - 105th Blues - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 9:55 am: A joke? Are you offended by somebody displaying a middle finger? Are some people of different cultures offended if you don’t bow? Is giving a clock as a gift to a business associate in China considered to be offensive? (the answer is yes in all of these cases) These are hardly jokes, but perhaps to you it is a “joke”. - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 9:55 am: Have you written to Notre Dame about this offense to your heritage? But, as I said, unless you can find an Irish group that finds offense, your argument holds no water. - Morrow Plotting - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 9:59 am: If the University dumps the Chief, I doubt there will be much economic value in the symbol “over time”. There will be a new mascot (or “symbol” for those of you in the PC crowd). In five years, there won’t be an undergrad on campus who favors the old, outdated, logo to the new, more modern one. Soon, the Chief will be talked about the same way we talk about the “Pekin Chinks” — an example of how amazingly insensitive people used to be. Some alumni will stop giving to the University, but others who never have will start. Those who truly matter always did and always will support their school, regardless of the halftime show. If the rumors are true, this is a great thing for the University. - Drew - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 10:04 am: It will be interesting to see how the newly elected State Senator from the district home to the UIUC campus reacts to this matter. Frerichs won by less than 600 votes for a seat previously occupied by a Republican. Will Frerichs stand with the people of his district, who are overhwelmingly are Pro-Chief, or will he be a stooge to his boss from Chicago? It is time to prove just whose team you play on, Senator. Silence can speak volumes. - UI grad - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 10:05 am: A lot of the people here probably have a black friend, too! Did anyone notice how the one of the former “chiefs” quoted in the Trib this morning is from Naperville, and how the two students who filed suit yesterday are named Logan and Dan? - I love the Chief - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 10:07 am: Rich: with all due respect, why does offense only become actionable or legitimate if paired with a collective group? 105th: my joke comment is not directed at the offense. My joke is directed at the fact that this “offense” is a relatively newly created objection. Like I said above, for decades the chief was established and proceeded with the full support of many tribes. Now, decades later the grandkids of these tribal leaders are all of a sudden offended? Give me a break? What next, slavery reparations? - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 10:11 am: “why does offense only become actionable or legitimate if paired with a collective group” Because until I see some legit action then I can only assume that the Leprechaun arguments are a red herring and not intellectually serious. And, again, have you written Notre Dame about your supposed “offense” at the mascot? - Dieter - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 10:12 am: The Chief should not be retired until Notre Dame is forced to retire the leprechaun of the Fighting Irish. While the Chief shows respect, the leprechaun characterizes Irish people as short, drunk brawlers. This is offensive and I’m not even Irish. - I love the Chief - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 10:15 am: I have not, nor do I plan to. But I have seen several letters written to the NCAA re: the offense…of course, without response. But let me get this straght, if I pen a letter, my offense becomes legitimate? - John Lee Pettimore - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 10:15 am: The Tribune is reporting that the Chief is history after this year. Good riddance, and I am a UofI alum. - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 10:18 am: Your alleged “offense” would be more legit if you had done something about it. I find it to be unserious since you only choose to speak out here and in this context. The Chief is gone. Get over it. - Dollar USA - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 10:23 am: I’m offended by the use of Native American in place of American Indian. I was born in the USA which made me a Native American. Oh yes, native American is more PC than American Indian. What could be more disgraceful than the Chief standing in front of a casino or on a billboard? I suggest that both strong supporters and anti Chief backers get a hobby. - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 10:24 am: Dollar USA, try to stick to the subject at hand, please. Thanks - I love the Chief - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 10:25 am: I’m over it. It’s just sad reflection on our political process that this can be forced upon an unwilling institution and unwilling populace. - John Lee Pettimore - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 10:29 am: The leprechaun is a mythical character, unlike the Chief, who is a parody of a real Native American leader. If the Leprechaun was falling down drunk, as a stereotype Irishman, you can bet your bippy that good, old Notre Dame would yank him off the field with a noose. - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 10:29 am: That institution is supported by taxpayers and ultimately governed by the General Assembly and the governor. It’s not a private, separate entity, no matter what the alumni association thinks. But, I’m glad you’re over it. - whatever - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 10:35 am: Isn’t Lawrence Eppley also a lawyer/partner at one of the big Chicago law firms, and doesn’t he practice government law? So if he caves to pressure from Emil Jones, is he doing it over real concern for the issue and the school, or is Eppley just worried his law practice might suffer? Just asking. - Archpundit - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 10:35 am: ===#It is certainly not the descendant tribes who train the chiefs to honor the fighting Illini No, they don’t. This is an absolute fabrication. In the 1990s the Peoria tribe asked the university to stop using the chief. The chief isn’t really based upon the Illini tribe either–the dance is a dance created in the 1920s to entertain white people and the headdress comes from the Oglala Sioux which has asked for the return of the headdress. The regala comes from a tribe that was based in Minnesota and the Dakotas primarily and was essentially a competitor to the Illini tribes. IOW, the notion that anyone is being honored is based on profound historical ignorance. - VanillaMan - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 10:38 am: I heard the Chief will be buried next to that other great American mascot, Mr. Bojangles. Remember Mr. Bojangles? He was a delightful character who brought African American culture to white audiences. The man who donned the blackface and white lips, dressed in the zoot suit and rolled his eyes was an artist. These guys studied black history and loved black music, gospel and spirituals. When they performed, they loved what they were doing, and audiences were moved. Well, the Chief will find his home along next to his alter ego, Mr. Bojangles. - leigh - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 10:39 am: What do you think will replace the Chief? Who will decide? Will it be something that will go along with their nickname “Illini” or will they change their nickname as well. Would it be easier to just let Emil Jones tell them since he seems to be in charge? Or does Michael Madigan get a vote? - UI Grad '06 - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 10:39 am: Finally! I don’t know what took them so long. - ZC - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 10:45 am: I am glad because maybe, finally, I will stop having to hear about Chief Illiniwek. I just want this debate to go away, forever. - Ding Dong... - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 10:51 am: …the chief is dead. What ArchPundit said is totally true. Around the time the Chief first marched in the homecoming parade, the U of I also had an actual KKK club at the school (1920s). Makes it hard to really argue (without any actual evidence) that the people who started it were honoring a minority culture. I really think there is a lesson here that people should take the time to understand the other argument before going nuts to defend something. Makes it a lot easier to move on afterwards. - Ding Dong... - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 10:52 am: PS - I also liked the part in the Trib story where the U of I is worried about the postseason NIT tournament. Wa wa. Go Demons! - Truthful James - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 10:55 am: I think we have elicited more posts, heard from more new posters on this matter than on any previous one. When I was in college, he school nickname was the Indians and there was a cartoon logo of an Indian brave’s head. P.C. brought us many moons ago to drop the nickname and the logo and our mascot, perhaps in reaction became — are you ready for this — “The Tree.” (There was a redwood tree at the center of the university seal and this was a wonderful tongue in cheek idea.) Now we are the Stanford Cardinal — note the singular. Not the bird, nor the church official, just the color. There of us oldsters who remember the Indian with his bright eye, single feather and smile. But the University is never a symbol, two or three dimensional. At the most basic level, it is the sum of the experiences we had while we were there — the cameraderie, the professors and even, for some, the learning experience both in the classroom and elsewhere. Those who appreciated the Chief can remember him and what he added. Those who do not must remember as well. When we go back for reunions, we find that the campus we knew changes, new buuildings, old ones torn down, professors retired, classmates no longer among us — even brands of beer no longe sold. We drive down an interstate, not the two lane road next to the railroad tracks passing through small villages. The University has changed…and so (willingly or unwillingly) have we. - Archpundit - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 11:20 am: A couple things about the ongoing discussion– First, actually American Indian is generally the preferred term these days by the population being referred to. It isn’t universal, but Native American isn’t actually the PC term. Second, no one wants to get rid of the name Illini. Maybe I’m wrong and we can find some exception, but the tribes and activists are not against the name as they feel it is a tribute to them. The only names that are problematic are ones like Redskins which should be pretty self-evident as to why it is a problem. There’s also an opportunity to work with the Peoria tribe and see if there is an appropriate mascot that can be developed. - Juice - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 11:22 am: And to quote another great Illinoisan, “It’s the silliest thing I’ve ever heard in my life. It really is silly. It’s silly, silly, silly. It is just silly. Silliness. It is silly. Completely silly. . . . It’s silly” - Bubs - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 11:33 am: While I couldn’t care less if the Chief goes or stays, I’m not sure that the “outrage” isn’t confined to a few Native American activists and hand wringing PC types. If in fact this action was taken by Effley and two Trustees, then it reinforces my concern, as the end hardly justified the means. I recall the poll of NAs a few years ago when some 80%+ said that the name “Washington Redskins” did not offend them. The “Cleveland Indians” were renamed from the Cleveland Spiders to honor their Captain and best player who was part NA. I guess the point is that it is not hard to be offended and insulted . . . if you are looking to be such. - Rayne of Terror - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 11:34 am: I’m a UIUC student and am glad the Chief is being retired. It’s too bad the non football and basketball sports had to suffer the NCAA restrictions for this cringe inducing tradition. - Just Observing - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 11:35 am: Those that support the Chief or think this is political correctness going too far believe this because they were raised to believe that Native Americans are cartoonish, backwards people here our pleasure and entertainment. They watched tv shows and cartoons where all Indians were the same (regardless or tribe or region) — they all wore feathers and they all said “how” when they greet you. For those that argue that the Chief honors the Illinwek or that the Illini tribe “teaches” the dance and customs to the mascot — really? Is that why the Chief wears a costume emblamatic of the Sioux tribe and not the Illiniwek? Is that why there was no such person as Chief Illiniwek? Is that why the dance the Chief performs has not historical accuracy whatsoever. The Chief is pure, simple racism. Europeans destroyed an entire civilization — this is not a bleeding heart liberal viewpoint — this is fact — keeping the Chief around further destroys the Native American culture by continuing the farce that all Native Americans danced around with feathers in their heads. I’m so happy the Chief is gone! - HoosierDaddy - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 11:35 am: Rich: Well, that would explain why I haven’t voted on them for a while Nevertheless, they are a government entity, accountable to the people through two legitimate branches of government. To whom is the NCAA accountable? It’d be one thing if the trustees saw fit to change the mascot, but it’s quite another to have some non-governmental organization exceeding their mandate and telling everybody they have to kow-tow to said organization’s version of political correctness. BTW, as an honorary Asian-American I am entitled to use “kow-tow” without racist PC repercussions. - Mad Conservative Crimefighter - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 11:39 am: Oh really Rich, so lets get this straight, ANY mascot based on Europeons is OKAY, but any other skin color is offensive. Heck I remember an occasion that the “Minutemen” were offensive. The Minutemen? So Paul Revere was a racist too? It seems to me you didn’t read a SINGLE THING “ihatepoliticalcorrectness” wrote, he put a lot of facts that completely and throughly debunked EVERYTHING you said about it. BTW, the photos you posted, yes they ARE okay with me, they’re honoring Indian heritage, they are dignified. Anyone who says otherwise is extreme ignorant. You need to quit being so thin skinned and listening to left-wing hacks. The NCAA needs to be stripped of their tax exempt status. - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 11:39 am: HoosierDaddy, I assume the U of I could simply withdraw from the NCAA, but that would mean withdrawing from the tournaments, schedules, etc. They’re in the group, they gotta follow the group’s rules. - Papa Legba - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 11:41 am: I always knew U of I Alums were a different breed. Sporting University colors, logos, bumper stickers and license plate frames all proclaiming they went to the U of I. Big friggin’ deal!!! Look in the mirror sometime. At 50+ years old you people look really stupid wearing the same sweat pants you wore in college. Besides, not many people, except for fellow Alums, give a crap that you went to the U of I. Which BTW has probably the ugliest campus of any Big Ten school. - Papa Legba - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 11:44 am: BTW. It’s about time they did away with the stupid looking white boy prancing about in a costume. - Philosophe Forum - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 11:47 am: FINALLY!!! This is a relief. Yes, it’s definitely a racist, 100 percent INaccurate characterization used as a sales gimmick. You want reality? Attend one of the MANY powwows held in the US & Canada each year (ladies, don’t forget your shawl to enter the circle!). - Bubs - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 11:48 am: “They watched tv shows and cartoons where all Indians were the same (regardless or tribe or region) — they all wore feathers and they all said “how” when they greet you.” Hey Snooty Just Observing, how do you know that? Were you, in your intellectual omnipotence, monitoring TV viewing over the last decades, or is this some psychic insight? The point is that in a modern society, if we eliminate everything that offends even one person, the culture will suffer as it reduces to the lowest common denominator. Being offended, somewhere, somehow, by something is a price of modern living. After all, I have to be offended by reading a pompous poster not only tell me what I was watching on TV as a kid, but also how it is controlling my view of Native Americans today. - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 11:49 am: Mad Conservative Crimefighter, you misunderstood what I wrote. Go back and read it again because I have no time for your inanities. Also, if it’s OK for people to criticize me, then it ought to be OK for me to fire right back. Fair is fair. So, if you come in here looking for a fight, I’ll most surely give you one, pardner. Just remember that the next time your fingers start itching. - Boa - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 12:00 pm: The chief gone….POW! - wow. - Expatriate - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 12:02 pm: Whatever @ 10:35- Larry Eppley is a partner at a large Chicago firm, but he’s a transactional corporate lawyer, not a government lawyer. Regardless of what else you may think of the decision, I’m certain Eppley’s firm had nothing to do with it. - I love the Chief - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 12:11 pm: Eppley’s politics/law firm affiliation had nothing to do with it. The mandate was delivered by our political leader, get rid of the chief or the University would suffer. He made the right choice. I don’t like it but it was the right choice for the University as a whole. It is too bad they way this happened though. But that’s politics I guess. Such politics keep bringing us back to this site!!! - Bubs - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 12:12 pm: Mad Conservative - He’s not kidding. Just ask me. - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 12:14 pm: LOL. I just want people to know that I give as much as I take. Take your shot, but it’s at your own peril. - Chitownguy - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 12:19 pm: Rich - I know you keep referring to the Chief as a mascot.. But just to correct you…. He is not a mascot. - Pat Hickey - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 12:21 pm: As a left of center regular Organization Democrat, I to will miss the quiet dignity and haunting lyricism of the Univeristy of Illinois’ now vanishing (ed) Native American Tribute. As dignified and soberingly reflective of ethnic pride as the Mick Mascot doing push-ups for each point. Sorry . . . I need some time alone . . .’tis touching. - Fire Ron Guenther - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 12:23 pm: If Burt Natarus wins re-election, I am going to mail a “Chief” t-shirt to him so he can wear it at a City Council meeting when he rips on Rich Miller. - Papa Legba - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 12:24 pm: Chitownguy - Any goof in a costume is a mascot. What would you call the Chief? - Capt. Obvious - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 12:27 pm: Two quick questions When will Chumpin Rose come prancing out to call for a law suit, waste millions and drag this out for years and years? Who wants to join me in a campaign to replace the Chief with the vision of Anna Nicole Smith as the new mascot? or better ! The line starts here. - OneManBlog - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 12:27 pm: Wow, I don’t know a single NIU alum that has this much emotion invested in Victor E. Huskie. Then again when your football program isn’t in the tubes it is easy not to get to upset. - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 12:30 pm: “Fire Ron Guenther” now that would be a hoot. I’m just worried I may not be able to dine at Gene’s without first making sure my back is to the wall. Of course, I try to do that already. But still… - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 12:33 pm: Chitownguy, you’re right. After next week, he won’t be a mascot. - LINK - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 12:35 pm: Chitownguy, Thank for saying the above as I was about to after dwelling on it for the last hour. Plus, I love how so many here today like to tell others how they think or how they believe. I support an individuals right to disagree but I reject someoone else telling me how I think. Finally, Rich, you stated “Seriously, does this white boy in goofy makeup look dignified to you?” How do you feel about Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts and other groups like them that utilize similar actions to instill what we can only assume are honorable intentions/beliefs? For almost 40 years I have witnessed the Chief and I have to say I felt something positive each and every time - and I am not an American Indian but I can still feel a sense of pride and honor for what they have lived and died for… - I love the Chief - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 12:37 pm: If the Indians want to be forgotten, let’s forget them. I’m done with it. [Maybe ] - Utility Infielder - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 12:41 pm: Both sides bring up some good points. As an Italian American I’m wondering how I would feel if Illinois changed their name to the fighting Dons and the mascot was dressed like a wise guy and wore a pinky ring. I may not be offended but I know plenty of people that would be. Of course I was not so much offended by the Soprano’s as I am of Everyone loves Raymond. - I love the Chief - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 12:43 pm: UtilityInfielder: What, you live across the street from your parents? - Just Observing - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 12:44 pm: Bubs: Its not being snooty or psychic discussing how Native Americans were portrayed on TV — its called observation and fact. According to your logic, nobody can make casual or studied obserations without being psychic — yeah, that makes a lot of sense. While I can’t account for every tv show you watched as a kid, I can account for how Native Americans were portrayed on tv. And by mentioning this doesn’t mean I want to eliminate every “offensive” thing from tv. I would hardly be considered “snooty” and before you go there… I could hardly be considered a left-winger — I am quite centrist… but wrong is wrong. I just happen to be more enlightened than you on this issue. - HoosierDaddy - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 12:47 pm: Rich, good point, but I guess that just goes to the question of whether the group is really a voluntary association anymore. More like a monopoly now. - wrigs - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 12:54 pm: can anyone say DYSFUNCTIONAL?? The State is messed up from the top to the bottom. As a former Marine, I am offended by the WIU “leatherneck” As a business man who always wears black socks with my suit I am offended by the MLB team on the Southside,my dad once drove a piece of *^#t Rambler, so watch out loyola U. - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 1:02 pm: wrigs, have you ever sent WIU a letter or called them or e-mailed them protesting the leatherneck name? Have the United States Marines taken a position against the name? - wrigs - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 1:07 pm: No, because I really am not that offended. I am more worried about getting paid from the state for a service i provided over 160 days ago. My ex is a retired teacher, and I am more worried that Emil and Rod will steal her pension money again this year. Those things seem much more important. - Tom - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 1:07 pm: I attended Illinois and watched the chief perform at halftime a couple times. It never sent chills up my spine. At most football and basketball games I used halftime for the restrooms or getting something to drink. I’m indifferent about the chief so I don’t care that he’s gone. - Bubs - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 1:12 pm: JO - make any observation you want about old TV shows, or even new ones for that matter. I totally agree with you that the historical truth about Native Americans is far, far different than those ridiculous TV portrayals. It’s “wrong” to extrapolate your observations to people you don’t even know. - Objective Dem - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 1:31 pm: A quick question for all you anti-PC bloggers, was it wrong for Pekin High School to change its team name from the “Chinks” to the “Dragons”? - Chicago Jason - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 1:32 pm: There don’t actually seem to be many alums commenting here, so allow me. I earned my graduate degree from UIUC in 2001, and I have refused to donate a penny to the school until the Chief was retired. I am hugely relieved that this enormous embarrassment and distraction from the University’s educational mission is finally disappearing. I e-mailed the development office first thing this morning and told them how pleased I was, since I’m sure they’re being bombarded with all sorts of ugly threats from Chief proponents today. - YNM - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 1:36 pm: I had something to say, but now I’m scared … Okay, I had nothing to say, and I’m not scared, but I was feeling left out. Sorry. - Frank Booth - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 1:43 pm: So what’s the new mascot going to be? The fighting leaving the scene of an accidents. Or better yet, change the team name to the BLAZERS in honor of Deon Thomas. - East Peoria Fan - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 1:45 pm: Pekin should have changed their Nickname to the “Knees.” You work it out. - Anon. - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 1:48 pm: My father was half Indian. His nickname was Chief. My family are big Illini fans. We never considered Chief Illiniwek a disgrace to American Indians. My father loved watching him perform. - capitol view - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 1:51 pm: now that “The Chief” is gone, watch for the next assault to be on that obscene statue of Lt. Gov. Menard on the Second St. side of the State House. Menard is sculpted as teaching a fully grown Native American “the white man’s ways.” Actually, Menard was a missionary when he wasn’t busy (sic) as the first Lt. Gov. - Chitownguy - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 1:57 pm: Wrigs - Actually WIU is the only school in the nation that has permission from the United States Navy to use the mascot thanks to Ray “Rock” Hanson.. There is alot of history behind it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Hanson - vole - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 1:57 pm: All the tattooed players do probably look more like the real Illini now, so why mimic the Plains tribes? - amy - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 1:59 pm: rich is correct, many people do consider the Chief to be racist. I have been to Illinois basketball games, sitting with a person who is native american, and who is hurt and angry when the Chief appears. Native Americans suffer incredible poverty after years of murder and degradation by our government. The Chief did absolutely nothing to honor them. If you want to honor Native Americans, buy something at the museum in Uptown, visit the Museum of the Native American in D.C., volunteer to work in South Dakota. But don’t even think that the Chief has anything to do with honor. This is a good day. - Skirmisher - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 2:03 pm: I always thought the ‘embarrassment” in this was that anyone in their right minds would want to be represented by an Illini Indian. If I remember my history (and I beleive I am well versed in it), the Illini were a tribe much given to pedophilia, drunkenness, and sadistic torture. In wars with their fellow Indians they tended to get clobbered, but on at least one occasion they managed to win one against the Fox with a little hel;p from their French allies. Then they horrified even the French when they paused in their pursuit of the beaten Fox to spend a week of festivities slowly roasting captured women and children on spits. A despicable and cowardly people, from my point of view, and perhaps now the University of Illinois will get a worthy “mascot”. - Arthur Andersen - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 2:04 pm: So anyway Bill, pray tell where did you go to school? Harvard? Yale? - vole - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 2:11 pm: Skirmisher: How about the Kickapoo? Seems like I remember reading that they were the true fighters. But in an ironic kind of way, I’d nominate an ear of corn as the symbol — a gift of native americans which contributed to the sacrificial landscape that is Illinois. - smartypants - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 2:16 pm: There is a sunny side to today’s events. The Pro-Chief people can drink away their sorrows and the Anti-Chief people can drink to their victory. Any way you look at the issue, it’s a win for all. Drink up bloggers. - Philosophe Forum - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 2:19 pm: Plains Indians never inhabited IL. The Kaskaskia, Maroa, Cahokia, Peoria, Tamaroa, Tapouaro, Coiracoentanon, Espeminka, Moingwena, Chinkoa, Chepoussa, and Michigamea were Algonquin-speaking. The Kickapoo signed a treaty in Edwardsville ceding their lands to the US in on July 13, 1819. UIUC sits on that land. REAL respect would be attending powwows & any of the following: 1. Work with the REAL descendents of the IL tribes and not their historical enemies to dance, dress, and speak authentically. 2. Create an Illinois Conferacy cultural center and sponsor visits for the descendents (Urbana has Japan House. UIUC can do this.) and activities/events during November (i.e., Native American Month). 3. Promote historical accuracy instead of selling sports. 4. Conduct fundraisers to benefit the tribes in Kansas, Texas, and Mexico. 5. ACT like they value the region’s history in the marketing materials. 6. Have the law students research federal law, file the necessary paperwork, and force Yale to repatriate Geromino’s skull. 7. Provide FULL all-expenses-paid scholarships to the members of the Algonquin tribes living on reservations. - Chitownguy - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 2:22 pm: how about the fighting idiots??? then we can offend everyone on this site including everyone that has too much free to consider whether indians are racist.. BTW. they need to stop making westerns. very racist… including any parts that have indians with tomahawks, spears, or bow and arrows.. come on.. indians did not use these things! Lets forget that indians even existed. oh wait.. better idea.. the fighting cowboys.. - the wonderboy - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 2:29 pm: I wish I had some popcorn for this show… One quick observation…the earlier comments which cited the KKK club on campus in the 1920’s and Mr. Bojangles are also red herrings. They have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand. I think it’s time for the chief to go, but as I have stated in earlier posts, the reasoning for removing the chief should be rational and on point…not simply emotional rhetoric. - Little Egypt - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 2:30 pm: I HAVE A DOG IN THIS HUNT. I am 1/8 Blackfoot Indian, my great-grandmother being full blooded Blackfoot. I have become very sensitive to the PC culture in this country and very mindful that other races seem to before the American Indian. What the U.S. government has done to all of the Indian tribes should be a crime. They have been pushed off their lucrative land/reservations, what lucrative land they could keep has been vastly reduced to enough size to accommodate a casino, or they were forced onto “free land” in the west where no one cared to settle. I NEVER CONSIDERED THE CHIEF TO BE AN INSULT to the American Indian. In fact, my opinion has always been that I was proud that U/I had such a mascot and performed such a spectacular and respectful dance at the games. I agree with a lot of other posters here regarding the PC of this whole issue. It won’t stop with the Chief. This is going to bleed over to other sports teams, college/pro/etc. It will take time to do so, but it will happen. The Pekin Knees sounds cute but the dog lovers would come out of the wood work. The day will come when the teams will be known only by their school name or town name. And perhaps that is the solution to keep EVERYONE from getting their nose out of joint. - offended - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 2:36 pm: I hope the good senator will now increase funding to the University of Illinois to offset the loss from the thousands of checkbooks that just slammed shut! - ILHandeyKing - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 2:37 pm: As a UIUC grad, one thing that has always blown me away were all the Pro-Chief people that talked about how “awe-inspiring” the Chief was. Really? I’ve seen dancing at Kam’s back then and lately at Catch 22 that I for one would consider way more awe-inspiring. If the Chief’s dance is the highlight of your life, maybe it’s time you get out once in a while. May I suggest some of the sights in sunny Southern Illinois (Garden of the Gods, Pyramid State Park, Cache River)? I’m just saying… - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 2:47 pm: “Offended,” If you were giving money to your alma mater because of the Chief, or refuse to give now because they dumped the goofy mascot, then what does that say about your priorities? - Lakeview Voter - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 2:52 pm: I went to the U of I I worked in the U of I admission office I got paid to sell the school to prospective students and their parents And I am ABSOLUTLEY THRILLED that we have finally done away with the white boy from the suburbs dancing around in war paint. Then again, I am thrilled whenever the fat white GOP men from the suburbs and downstate who claim a monopoly on loving U of I get [upset]. [Please don’t swear in comments.] - Dan Vock - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 3:32 pm: I, for one, am proud of my university today. And to celebrate, I called up the University of Illinois Foundation and made a donation. I’ve been meaning to for a long time, but today, at long last, I felt no hesitation about doing it. As an alum, I’ve always thought the University of Illinois is an amazing institution. Today it did something that was academically honest and morally correct. That it took decades of debate, political coercion and possible NCAA sanctions is disappointing. But today, U of I erased the asterisk next to my name on the list of proud alums. It feels great. - Archpundit - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 3:48 pm: What I really don’t understand is why the Chief is important? He’s not representative of any American Indians around Illinois, his dance is from the 1920s, and his regala is from the Dakotas. So what exactly is it that the Chief honors or celebrates? Ignorance? There is another way to proceed and that is to engage the tribes in what would be an appropriate mascot instead of insisting they are stupid for caring. Respecting their traditions would be the first way to honor them. Maybe there’s a really interesting way to do that. - Chitownguy - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 3:51 pm: Dan Vock - How about you do the ‘honest’ thing and return/donate any land you own back to the indians.. Afterall it is the MORAL thing to do since your ancestors stole it from the indians! You can pretend there is not but there will always be an astericks….. - Objective Dem - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 3:53 pm: I think we should replace the Chief with Mr. Right Wing Blogger. At the slightest hint of foul against the Illini, he could spring into action and assail the referee with charges of being PC, reverse discrimination, hating America, etc., until the ref calls in favor of the Illini. Mr. Right Wing blogger would create diversions to keep the ref from seeing Illini fouls. When a play is questioned, he will mobilize a mob to “monitor” the decision making. And I bet he could find ways (wink wink) to get information on the other teams playbook. His dancing may be bad, but he will turn mediocre and incompetent teams into winners. - the wonderboy - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 3:55 pm: Arch- I understand what you are saying, but I think from the other side the Chief honors and celebrates the history of the University and their athletic teams. Not saying that it is right or wrong, but in the eyes of many it honors a school in which they have a great deal of pride. From that perspective, I think it at least makes sense why people get so passionate about taking away a tradition which they feel honors there past at the school. - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 3:58 pm: It’s good to see you’re not bitter, Chitownguy. The world will not end when the goofy white boy stops dancing. Terminating this racist and ridiculous mascot is not a slippery slope to giving land back to the Indians. Our state name is not imperiled. The mascot has been terminated. That is all. In a few years, this will mostly be forgotten, and people will probably look back and wonder why the university didn’t deal with this situation decades before. They could have approached the Peoria tribe 20 years ago and tried to work out some sort of arrangement. Arrogance, racism, or just plain fear of the almuni prevented it. And now it’s too late. Good riddance. - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 4:11 pm: “ihatepoliticalcorrectness”… “defamating”? Did you even go to college? - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 4:13 pm: Also, Chitownguy, I think Vock rents. - PalosParkBob - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 4:13 pm: Rich, let me get this straight. I believe we all agree that racism is a moral issue, not a product of demos. If something is inherently racist and damaging, it is wrong regardless of the “tyrany of the majority” and should be opposed under our system of minority rights and equal protection under the law. Yet, you claim that the ND Leprechaun, a blatantly racist and religiously bigoted sterotype (leprechauns have their origins in pre-christianity), should remain unless “organizations” oppose it, yet you propose that Illiniwek should be abolished for no more of a moral offense to a cultural group. It appears your position is that because a vocal minority is organized, it should have the power to control others concerning a symbol for which they have no standing to contro, because they are not a member of the now extinct Illini confederation, yet Irish minorities who object to the ND Leper should be ignored because they’re not in a vocal and aggressive enough organization? Please explain your logic and consistency in this matter. By the way, allowing members of the Indian tribes such as the Miami to claim offense as to the way the Illini tribe was being charcterized is a racist and Eurocentrist position. The Miami were the tribe that enacted genocide on the Illini tribes before the white men settled in Illinois. American Indian cultures were at least as diverse as the European cultures of that time, and a Miami claiming any standing to abolish the Chief has about the same standing as a German controlling the way Polish Jews are depicted, or a Russian “offended” by keeping the memory alive for the millions of Ukranians they starved to death and murdered. My ancestors were Vikings and Vandals (NE Europe) and I object to the racist caricatures from Minnesota, and the inherent racism in the English language that makes “vandal” synonamous with taggers and mischief makers. Won’t you join me in calling for removal of the word “vandal” from the English lexicon because of its unfair and racist meaning? PS: I’ve never been accused of Viking-like plundering and violence or sacking civilization like may Vandal ancestors did, except, of course, by my liberal detractors. - Rich Miller - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 4:22 pm: If an Irish group rose up and demanded that Notre Dame drop the leprechaun, and Irish students attending the universilty felt insulted by the nickname, I’d be more inclined to believe this silly little argument. As is, however, I just see it as an utterly transparent, dishonest rhetorical device deployed to defend the indefensible, as is your Viking “point.” Somebody above dragged out the leatherneck argument, then admitted he didn’t really find it offensive. Again, a silly little debate ploy that holds no water except to those desperate to win an argument at all costs. My BS meter is always set pretty high in this business, as you might imagine. Politicians are always using devices like this to justify whatever positions they take or oppose. In this instance, you’re no different than they are, PalosParkBob. Get over yourselves already. It’s finished. You lost. You’re wrong. You were always wrong. - Papa Legba - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 4:32 pm: Frank Booth - How about the new mascot being a group of mascots? They could be the U of I Corruptovichs. You get about three guys in suits, Elvis wigs and they pass around over-sized piles of money. - Dollar USA - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 4:45 pm: Attack, Attack Florida Seminoles. - The Horse - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 4:46 pm: THREE THOUGHTS 1 - hoosierdaddy…. obvously u have never lived in st. louis where being called a hoosier is as bad as the N word …. 2 - good riddance to the chief. 3 - did someone in this post/blog really ask “who did emil think he was?” thats one of the most absurd comments in a while and - Capt. Obvious - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 6:03 pm: Looks like the “Anna Nicole Smith for Mascot” is really catching on. The committee is planning a rally to boost the plan outside Jamar Smith’s wrecked Lexus before the big game - the Other Anonymous - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 6:40 pm: Count me as another UIUC alum that’s glad the Board finally dumped the Chief. I’m amazed at how far the supporters of the Chief go to claim that this tradition is somehow sanctioned by Native Americans, and is intended to honor Native American Heritage. Rich asked us not to swear in comments, so let’s just say that this is bovine byproduct. The real history of the Chief — as pointed out by others — comes from the 1920s, the same era that gave us Amos ‘n Andy. It was part of a pop culture fad, not an attempt to honor Native Americans. In the movie “Back To The Future III,” the character played by Michael J. Fox is sent back to “wild west” by scientist Emmit Brown (played by Christopher Lloyd) in the 1950s. Doc Brown dresses Fox in what they considered appropriate cowboy wear, and the resulting visual was hilarious. The Chief and his dance aren’t quite as visually hilarious, but they share a common history. The mascot or symbol — it doesn’t matter — was good fun for generations of U of I students, nothing more. But it was good fun at the cost of Native Americans’ identify and heritage. There’s no justification for keeping the Chief. - JJ - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 9:14 pm: I have never understood why people find the chief offensive. When I watch the chief dance it is with the same awe & respect that I show for the national anthem (which is a huge level of respect). There is Cherokee blood in my family and I see nothing offensive about the Chief, only respect and acknowledgment of a great tradition. I’ve always refused to contribute to U of I fundraising because I had to pay my way through law school there (and do contribute to my undergrad because scholarships covered my education) but now I have an additional reason to never contribute to U of I … no chief. This is the 2nd worst decision made in this state (#1 is electing Blago). - Big Guy - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 10:02 pm: Is Emil Jones going to pull funding for Lane Tech, who has an indian mascot? I don’t think so…..Too many votes in Chicago to do that!!!! - YNM - Friday, Feb 16, 07 @ 11:17 pm: I’m not sure I even want to know what “defamating” is … Maybe chitownguy should put an “astericks” by that word for ihatepoliticalcorrectness, but I’m not sure what one of those is either In seriousness though, I think this is probably a situation where everyone needs to stop debating the whats and whys and move one … but that’s just my 2 cents. - nancy - Saturday, Feb 17, 07 @ 8:36 pm: Well I’m late to this argument but here is what I said at the SJR’s site which is getting very heated: It is not for any of us who are not American Indian(nor those of you who have a few tiny drops of American Indian blood, but have no ties to the community or culture) to say that this is a respectful representation of that culture. How would Catholics like it if a school had a non-Catholic student dressing up as the pope, swinging a rosary around like an idiot and splashing holy water on the crowd while doing a wildly exaggerated and incorrect sign of the cross? And then add insult to this injury by having a bunch of non-Catholics tell us how respectful it is, that we shouldn’t be offended because it really gets the crowd enthused. Rich is right…the fact that the Chief offends the majority of the people it is supposed to be “honoring” is enough to make it an embarrassing spectacle for the school. - pickles!! - Monday, Feb 19, 07 @ 2:01 pm: i just think there are more important issues, both statewide and nationally, then a silly mascot dancing around and making a fool of himself. Instead of going after this issue, E. Jones should be more concerned about education, crime, kids reckless driving habits, povert, and such. Maybe if Jones and our other legislators put their time into more pressing issues than The Chief, stuff would get done. - Leland Milton Goldblatt - Monday, Feb 19, 07 @ 6:30 pm: Conservative all day speaks about funding for arts and back to basic education. Why should we be funding sports and crap like this? Eliminate public sports in public colleges and we won’t have this problem. If you took all the public monies spend on sports complexes vs. arts etc. There would be no comparison. - U of I G r A d - Monday, Feb 19, 07 @ 9:43 pm: I wIlL B e g Lad wHen This IS aLL oveR so I cAn go bacK to BInge DriNKing BtWeEN FinALs. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.