38 Comments - ZC - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 11:41 am: OK, but if the story here is “University lowers admission standards for friends / offspring of big financial donors,” then this is the tip of a very large iceberg. News flash! Baseball player discovered using steroids! - Macbeth - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 11:43 am: Maybe it’s just me, but as appalling and as weird is this is — I’m confused. I assumed (from many, many years at various institutions of higher learning across the country) that clout — political and atheletic especially — *always* played a role in admissions. I mean, am I supposed to suddenly realize that, well, school admissions are supposed to be fair. Again — maybe I’m naive, but I never (even when I was hoping to be admitted to various places) assumed that the process was “fair”. I assumed that because I had no connections — either institutional or political — that I was at an immediate disadvantage for wherever I applied. I did what most applicants do — had my “dream” schools, had several “second-tier” schools, and had a 99% fall-back school. Fortunately, I had no problems — but I figured, well, I don’t play football and don’t know any senators or governors, so cripes, I hope the sun, stars, and moon all align because my standardized test scores were okay but not stellar and my admissions essays were pretty much like all admissions essays: a mix of misplaced passion, evidence of a lack of aged wisdom, but generally okay. So what gives? Are we supposed to be “shocked, shocked” that clout exists? Or are we supposed to say, hey, man — I was the dude that got blocked by clout? I mean, try being an eager grad student and teaching a class with a couple of football players at a Big 10 school and you’ll quickly learn how “clout” really works. - Shore - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 11:46 am: I’ve said from the outset that the impotence of the state gop is nowhere better seen than in their failure to tie the local democrats in the north suburbs to this scandal. college is THE biggest thing in the north shore which our state party chair should know since he’s from there, and this scandal is the best way to tie springfield dem failures to these jeff shoenbergs, karen mays, susan garretts, terry links, julie hamoss, ect. It’s noteworthy that the dem recruit for hamos’s seat was a blago appointee at the state department of higher education, right smack in the middle of this, and he doesn’t seem to have been hit for it. All it takes is a press release in the local pioneer press outfits or a mailer letting parents know that their johnny or jane was denied admission to u of I because of what their local state rep failed to stop. Then again mark kirk is coming to save the state gop so grassroots political communications doesn’t matter and the team can go back to working on his messaging. - George - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 11:48 am: The fact that this was a situation of rich kids getting in supports my contention that this wasn’t seen simply as constituent service by the parents or the politicians. They know they had money. They know what that money does when they call up their legislator. It is unclear at this point if they were donors, but it is likely. May not have been illegal, but I doubt the motives of most people doing this were pure. - Bill - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 11:51 am: What never ceases to amaze me is that these students and their parents even want to go to U of I where they will be sitting in lecture halls with 299 other students trying to listen to and learn from an underpaid, limited English proficient teaching assistant. Why don’t they go somewhere else where excellence in undergraduate education is emphasized? These parents have the means to send their children to any number of Illinois private and public institutions that would love to have them. Besides what does it teach the student when Mom and Dad have to clout them in somewhere where they really don’t belong? - George - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 11:55 am: Agree with Bill - what does it mean that you have to be clouted into U of I? - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 11:57 am: Rich, I apologize if you mentioned this already, but the U of I law school faculty have weighed-in. Apparently they are outraged that the Tribune is outraged. In classic lawyerly fashion, it’s a 3,000 word op-ed. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi -open-letter-college-clout-story,0,2114931,full.story - Fire Ron Guenther - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 11:57 am: Chancellor Herman looked like a beaten man yesterday before the Commission. Hopefully he and White get sacked. - lake county democrat - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 11:57 am: I dare any of the U of I law professors who signed that pathetic defense of the school to stand in front of a rejected applicant and spew that “everybody does it so don’t blame us” crap (this from people who supposedly follow the legal ethics code — hold the jokes). - silly, silly, just silly - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 12:05 pm: This reminds me of all the parents I encounterd as my kids played sports growing up. Some parents whet as far as going to the school board to get their kid on the “A” team. Obvioulsy the kid wasn’t good enough but it was a status thing. - DuPage Moderate - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 12:07 pm: So what’s the solution here? How do you balance the admissions of a kid from Carlinville with a great GPA but okay SATs, vs. a kid from Wilmette with a great SAT but okay GPA, vs. a kid whose dad gave 100,000,000 to the school with grades and scores within the range of 25-75% of the student body, vs. an athlete who brings fame and recognition to the university, vs. a world renowned actress with average scores, vs. the mayor of Chicago’s nephew, vs. an affirmative action candidate below the 25% but who can keep up with the studies if given a chance. Each bring a unique perspective to the student body and serve the University at large. Each, should have their background taken into account when admitting students…even if that background is political. There’s no way to splice it any other way. - 618er - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 12:08 pm: “Little ol’ SIU could resist but the U of I couldn’t? ” Go Soutern Go! That’s all the words I know…. - Phineas J. Whoopee - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 12:11 pm: I knew this was going on ever since Thornton Mellon tried to straighten out his Longfellow by buying his way into College. I guess it’s wrong to play favorites but it sure shouldn’t surprise anyone. - Brennan - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 12:13 pm: The law school letter is astounding. These are lawyers complaining about intimidation? When intimidated, intimidate back. What the heck? Get on with it. Resign en mass. Do it. Put together a strategy to deal with it. Instead they wait for the Tribune to cover a story they already knew about to write a 3000 word response? And these clouted candidates probably weren’t apply to UofC or Northwestern or Loyola for good reason. They probably lacked the grades to even hope clout could cover the rest. The UofI FOIA website is a dynamite idea for more sunlight. I’d like to know more as to how it was created and why. - David Ormsby - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 12:16 pm: I wonder if the “Tribune Company” reference in Krueger’s FOIA request also covers the Chicago Cubs and its employees. Just askin’ - Quinn T. Sential - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 12:21 pm: {The Sun-Times asked for any Barack Obama correspondence to the university, including recommendations. The university then asked the paper to narrow its search.} Unless the administration retained Sandy Berger to be its advance man on records review, I have it on; what I believe to be pretty credible authority, that such documentation should be found, and the relationship and connections of the applicant could be quite problematic for the administration. Stay tuned. - Shore - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 12:28 pm: There are 2 issues. That the state GOP is incompetent and can’t start a political fire with a box of matches and wood handed to it. That the state democrats are corrupt and haven’t changed a thing despite their promises 7 years ago. As I said, go to www.wttw.com click on obama, click on election recap 2002 and watch the footage of queen lisa, blago and the rest promise a new day and then read capitol fax like I do. Nothings changed so time to throw the bums out. @Bill, the school says no letters of reccomendation. That means donors, that means means ballet coaches (even if you go on to be obama’s white house chief of staff) period. All this does is further diminish our flagship school which is already in the 2nd tier of top public schools beneath the UVA, UNC, Michigan, UCLA tier, all so that some democrat leeches can win re-election they don’t deserve. - fed up - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 12:37 pm: Rich when this was a Trib story you made it out to be overblown and something about nothing. Now the sun times is jumping on board and it real news. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 12:39 pm: fed up, you missed my point. What I said was that the CS-T got right to the heart of the matter. I don’t believe the Trib ever really has. - zatoichi - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 12:47 pm: Of course no other organization uses clout in any situation. No decision is ever based on race, money, sports, who you know, access, religion, or history/legacy. All decisions in every company, in every situation is based only on the merits of the situation. For a group of law professors, the Trib letter reads like someone trying to twist out a rationalization. Reads like standard corporate BS to me. After reading all these articles, what actually happens to the students clouted in? Do they actually get a degree? Are they employed later in the field they studied? The highly recruited athlete who is ‘assisted’ through school, often never finishes, and is later working in a factory is an old story. Do the other clouted students do any better or does daddy’s money keep paving the way. I keep coming back to the basic concept of 10 years after college does it really matter where you went? I have met just as many successful people who did go to college or went through the ‘lowly state university/community college’ process as I have people who attended a U of I. Met just as many yahoos both ways too. If you want to get it done, you’ll find a way. Unless you are in a very specialized, regulated field, I remain amazed at the huge number of people who actually drift into a career they never planned and just developed by circumstance. They were prepped well somewhere and often not at the big name schools. - Pat collins - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 12:55 pm: SIU could resist Maybe because their law school is not so good? U of I is in second ten, I believe. Still pretty good, and likely to get good jobs if you do well. - Legaleagle - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 1:07 pm: Merit selection is a fine idea - until you get down to defining “merit”. Can’t elected officials write letters of recommendation for applicants they know? Is this ‘clout’? Do we otherwise punish applicants who, on merit, are known to the public officals in their communities by forbidding such letters? Why can’t a University favor an applicant whose parent gives money or who is an alum? What about geographic and ethnic diversity? That’s not ‘necessarily ‘merit’. Is it ‘clout”?I once debriefed a group of scholarship Big 10 athletes for a case, and I was appalled at how inarticulate and semi-illiterate they were. But they were admitted because they could catch a football or shoot a basketball. Be careful here, and target your condemnation to the obvious “admit this unqualified kid or else” situation. - Ghost - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 1:17 pm: Just to toss out a consideration on the other side. Imagine in a world where things are grey, that large univiersities need big dollars from private sources to have fancy buildings, labs sports programs etc. it may be an ugly reality, but it is a relaity. We taxpayers do not want our taxes raised to fully fund 100% all the costs, so we invite the issue of using available resources (spots in the class room) as a method to raise money. These kids who were clouted in, in exchange for money (big donations I suspect will get you into harvard, stanford or else where) look like a tiny fration of the student body. There are 30,895 undergrad students, so we are talking what, roughly .3% of the student body at any given time? That is less then half a percent. The story is not that grades were being changed for money etc. At the end of the day, the kids have to perform. An F from the U of I is just as prestigious as one from a lower tiered school. In the unfrotunate reality of a school system which is dependent on private funds, you have the unfrotunate relaity that spots in the school are a resource to be exchanged to drive the need for funds. - Cook County Commoner - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 1:18 pm: My question is what were the sponsors capable of doing to the school officials to enforce their requests. Apparently, the officials were either intimidated by job loss or paid off or just general sleeze who always take the low road. Dennis Byrne in today’s Tribune had it right as to what it will take to reform this crowd: ” … then come up with a way to make the current cast of characters do what is right. For me, the only way to get them moving is to hear the guillotine blade start to descend on the cozy sinecure they’ve created for themselves. ” I’m starting to believe that change via education and the ballot box is no longer possible in Illinois. Perhaps, Robespierre has the solution. - Old Elephant - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 1:27 pm: Time for a minority opinion here. I keep wondering – isn’t the University of Illinois a PUBLIC university supported by taxpayer dollars? As such, doesn’t it have a responsibility to give first preference to educating students from Illinois anyway? I wonder why no one is asking if the University’s admissions policies might be too restrictive in the first place. I’ve seen stories in the past of students rejected for admission to the University who had perfect or near perfect SAT and ACT scores. There are other states with public universities that give preference to or even require admission for students who graduate from a high school in the state. One of the strange things to me is that this whole fight seems to be over the question of whether or not students should be given the opportunity to enroll at the University. Are there any allegations that instructors were pressured to give good grades or pass students who couldn’t do the work? Or, is admission to the University now tantamount to graduating? Are instructors unwilling or unable to flunk students who can’t do the work? I’ve often heard the criticism that the University of Illinois imagines itself to be an Ivy League school, rather than a public university. Perhaps if the university took its responsibility to provide an education to Illinois students more seriously, there would be less need for students to get “clouted” into the University. If the University wants to be an elite school with highly restrictive admissions policies then perhaps they need to rethink whether or not they should rely so heavily on the taxpayers to support the school. - Ghost - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 1:43 pm: === students rejected for admission to the University who had perfect or near perfect SAT and ACT scores. ==== I call shenanigans. Source please? I dont find that statement to be credible. The major schools tend to like to tout their average ACT or SAT score required for admission. To this end they will go for a high score to push up the average. Find me 20 people who scored in the 98% or higher and were rejected and I will consider withdrawing my claim of shenanigans. As for your other thoery, IL has 6 public univeristies. The universities operate in different tiers allowing access to a large spectrum of studentsl; the more diffcicult programs are offered at schools with more difficult entry requirements. - Downstate weed chewing hick - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 2:03 pm: I was wait-listed by the U of I College of Law in 1990 or so. That probably pre-dates all of this, but it burns me to think that I may have been passed over for the niavete of thinking decisions were being made on the basis of GPA and LSAT rather than, as Homer Stokes would say, “nepotism, cronyism and rascalism”. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 2:06 pm: “Little ol’ SIU could resist but the U of I couldn’t?” So says SIU…Wait til the truth comes out! - Pat collins - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 2:08 pm: I call shenanigans. Now, I understand one ought not to believe all you read in the papers, but BOTH the Sun times and the Trib have had stories about kids with 30+ ACTs and upper 10% of their class not getting into U of I. As a parent, that send shivers down my spine, and then the clouting made me boil. - I. Raymon - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 2:30 pm: Is it true the new official beer served at U of I games is going to be Red Stripe? In honor of the admissions policy. - Justice - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 2:39 pm: I am devastated to learn that clout actually exists……just devastated! All this time I thought the reason I succeeded was because of hard work, determination, dedication, good judgment, and common sense. When in fact it appears that it was simply clout? Clout exists in all walks of life and it ain’t going away. Hey, clout might give you a chance, but hard work, determination and a winning attitude will get you further in the long haul. There are many, many schools in the US that excel in providing a great education, and clout isn’t hanging on the entry to them. As far as I’m concerned, clout is used to give losers a helping hand, which ultimately results in failure. Give me and mine a direction and a goal, and our drive and motivation will run over clout every time! - Ghost - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 3:03 pm: PC, do the stories actually identify the kids and their information? I am skeptical of antecdotal tales. It may be true, ut I bet there is somthing else going on. This sounds to me like antecdotal discussions, or holding back of information. Although if it is true it is definetly very distrubing. They need an appeal/admin process to allow applicants a tribunal to challenge the decision. - Pat collins - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 4:02 pm: Yes, named kids, scores and High schools. Now, I kind also expect there is “something” else they did not mention. John Cooney, a Buffalo Grove High School parent whose son was shut out of the U. of I’s business school and the less competitive Division of General Studies despite his 4.6 grade-point average, 31 ACT score and a ranking in the top 25 percent of his class. his son, a student at Notre Dame College Prep in Niles, was denied entry to the engineering program despite a 34 on the ACT and a 4.27 grade-point average. - elginite - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 5:55 pm: We should look at privatizing the University of Illinois. They have no shortage of rich alumni who withhold donations because they know that Illinois taxpayers will always be there to pay the bills. If a University of Virginia or University of Pennsylvania (etc) can thrive as private institutions, so can the University of Illinois. As it is, we are paying more than half a billion a year just in employee benefits (including pensions) for the University of Illinois. - UofI Alum - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 6:49 pm: Penn’s private despite the name. Also, I can easily believe that the 2 students mentioned above may not have got in. While they both have great scores, that is all we see. Admissions to any University takes into account many more things than ACT, GPA, and class rank, which the Tribune article doesn’t talk about. UofI’s engineering program is is one of the best in the country, and the second student’s scores are fairly close to the engineering program average. The other student had a 31, which is slightly higher than UofI’s 28 median, but his GPA was so so (Notre Dame Prep appears to use a 5.0 grading system), and his class rank is not that high extraordinarily high. In all, these students seem to be intelligent, and have good scores, but nothing extraordinary for the programs their applying to that would make their exclusion seem egregious. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 7:02 pm: ==We should look at privatizing the University of Illinois. They have no shortage of rich alumni who withhold donations because they know that Illinois taxpayers will always be there to pay the bills.== No problem. Let’s just make sure the taxpayers get their fair price for building then supporting the institution since 1867. What’s a fair price? Beats me. But the Trib bought the Cubs and Wrigley Field in 1979 for $23 million. They just sold for $900 million. So for all those who want to take U of I private, I’ll start the bidding at, oh, I don’t know, a jillion kabillion? - The Glove - Tuesday, Jul 7, 09 @ 8:40 pm: As a State Employee, each year I take a refresher course on the Ethics Act. For those of you who have had the pleasure of seeing this material, I would suppose, that there might have been at least one teeny-tiny ethics violation in this situation. However, I guess I’d be incorrect, as I have heard no-such-mention of an ethics violation. Odd, very odd indeed… - LynnS - Wednesday, Jul 8, 09 @ 4:23 pm: What if we let the alums buy the University for $11 billion plus another $11 billion to seed a rainy day fund for the state? Do I get any takers? Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.