Today’s quote
Monday, Jul 8, 2013 - Posted by Rich Miller
* Sun-Times…
Glenn Keefer, managing partner of Keefer’s Restaurant at 20 W. Kinzie in the River North neighborhood, said a provision in the current law for restaurants to post signs that guns are unwelcome won’t work.
The existing bill’s language, which Quinn said comes straight from the National Rifle Association-endorsed concealed carry law in Texas, allows concealed-carry weapons in bars and restaurants whose alcohol sales are less than 50 percent of their gross receipts. The existing bill lets those restaurants put up signs saying guns are unwelcome, while establishments with greater than 50-percent alcohol sales are required to post such signs.
“After more than 40 years in the bar and restaurant business, I can tell you that signs do not work,” Keefer said, noting that he took down his own restaurant’s sign asking men to take off their hats while dining because it was ignored.
Umm, OK. A sign asking people to remove their hats, without the force of any sort of law, is ignored. No surprise. The concealed carry law would have penalties attached to it, so it would be ignored at a permit-holder’s peril. Big difference.
Keefer’s, by the way, is one of Gov. Pat Quinn’s favorite restaurants. As subscribers know, Quinn had the restaurant opened for a breakfast meeting recently, the timing of which just “happened” to coincide with a Lisa Madigan fundraiser across the street.
- OneMan - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 12:31 pm:
The gun signs are all over the place in AZ, not sure if they work, but I did see a guy putting his gun in his trunk at a Fry’s (electronics not grocery) down there.
- Mason born - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 12:49 pm:
Make no mistake the only reason this is a concern is for the restaurants who want to ban the guns but don’t want to lose business.
- RonOglesby - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 1:01 pm:
—
Make no mistake the only reason this is a concern is for the restaurants who want to ban the guns but don’t want to lose business.
—
Ding ding ding. we have a winner!
- VonKlutzenplatz - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 1:09 pm:
Keefer’s the same guy who was outraged over the existence of food trucks.
Stuff that is routine elsewhere upsets this guy tremendously.
- Anonymous - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 1:17 pm:
Once they catch the guys who shot the 72 people this holiday, revoke their FOID cards and their caps. Simple solution eh?
- OneMan - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 1:18 pm:
Yeah not a big fan of the food trucks…
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20120511/NEWS07/120519958/why-glenn-keefer-is-wrong-about-food-trucks
- John Boch - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 1:25 pm:
If other states are a guide, and there’s no reason to think they won’t be, there will be some businesses post “no guns” right out of the gate.
This will be either through ignorance or through well-meaning but misinformed managers and/or owners.
Oftentimes, through education by civil rights advocates to educate them about carry license holders being literally card-carrying good guys, those signs will come down.
Other times, it takes the sting of lost revenues before financial considerations trump personal bigotry against law-abiding gun carriers.
In either event, if Mr. Keefer wants to post his restaurant “no guns”, he will guarantee himself that some portion of his former clientele, as well as newcomers such as myself, will never grace his establishment.
And at the same time, his “no guns” signage will let bad guys know that people at his establishment are pretty much guaranteed to be unarmed and as such, easy pickings for criminal victimization.
Kudos to you also, Rich, for noting the lame comparison between “remove your hat” signage and “no guns” signage.
John
- steve schnorf - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 1:28 pm:
It’s a fine restaurant
- Skeeter - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 1:33 pm:
It is a pretty average steakhouse. Fish is a bit better than typical for a steakhouse but not worth making it a destination. They don’t do anything there that I can’t do just as well at home.
The fact that it is a Quinn favorite is interesting: “Keefer’s: A Mundane Steakhouse for an Mundane Governor”
- Demoralized - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 1:35 pm:
== trump personal bigotry==
==his “no guns” signage will let bad guys know that people at his establishment are pretty much guaranteed to be unarmed and as such, easy pickings for criminal victimization.==
Can you be any more ridiculous?
- Small Town Liberal - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 1:42 pm:
- Can you be any more ridiculous? -
In a recent column John referred to the Newtown shooting as the “Connecticut glory killing massacre”. So yeah, I’d say there are plenty more ridiculous thoughts thumping around that one track mind of his.
- OneMan - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 1:46 pm:
The sign comment is interesting…
I suspect at least in the City Of Chicago putting up a no gun sign isn’t going to cost someone much business IMHO (might be different in different parts of the state) I also suspect it will be norm in Chicago to have one of those signs up.
- wordslinger - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 1:51 pm:
–Make no mistake the only reason this is a concern is for the restaurants who want to ban the guns but don’t want to lose business. –
I think they don’t want to be in the business of policing for guns in their business.
Besides, by your logic, wouldn’t all the restaurants that welcome guns be served by big old signs in the window saying so?
Seriously, how many people do you think will feel the need to pack a gun to go out to eat?
- Don - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 1:52 pm:
Chicago Magazine rates it as a top 20 steakhouse in Chicago and it easily is. I’m sure you do just as well at home. Now turn over and go back to sleep.
- VonKlutzenplatz - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 1:58 pm:
Yes Don,I can cook a steak. Mine will actually be better because I use grass fed beef (and unless they’ve changed, Keefers does not).
It is not exactly Alinea. It is not Moto. It is not one of GEB’s places. It is a steak. Big deal.
- Loop Lady - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 2:00 pm:
So are the restaurant/tavern gun police going to be paid by the owner of the establishment that doesn’t want guns, or will the folks that want CCW hire people to insure that there is no hassle for folks who want to pack a gun along with their martini and aged steak?
- RonOglesby - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 2:01 pm:
@Word
I travel a bit. Around the state and mid-west in my car. I walk in and out of everything from McD’s to small business diners or steak houses for customer diners. Do it all the time. I carry when legal… I dont carry BECAUSE I am going to eat. I am already carrying and stopping for a bite to eat.
I have now talked to 4 managers (1 was the owner) of a small restaurants here in Illinois. 2 could care less if someone carries. and 2 didnt “like” guns but didn’t want to put up a sign either because they may lose $. 1 Specifically said I was the 3rd or 4th person to ask what their policy would be (small place in Will county) and she said she wouldn’t put up a sign and risk us not coming even though she didn’t “like guns”.
That is what is going on.
- wordslinger - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 2:08 pm:
Ron, what’s going on is that the Illinois Restaurant Association wants the change. Like was said before, your anecdotes don’t add up to data.
- Anonymous - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 2:09 pm:
I spend time in and around the San Antonio Texas area, and signs against CCW are posted in a variety of establishments. The wording usually includes something along the lines of violators will be arrested for criminal trespass.
- Keyser Soze - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 2:14 pm:
Keefer’s is a very good steak house but the owner should probably stay away from politics, little p or big P.
- wordslinger - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 2:22 pm:
JB, what’s a “glory killing massacre” and what does it have to do with “civil rights?”
- Demoralized - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 2:22 pm:
@Ron:
Would you specifically avoid an establishment if they told you that you couldn’t carry your gun inside? I would like to know from people who carry why it is such a big deal if you can’t pack heat while you are inside eating a cheeseburger. Maybe you wouldn’t care. I don’t know.
- Mason born - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 2:24 pm:
Word
I think you miss the point. On this issue, as with most, the only people who will pay attention will be those who have strong feelings either way. Now if Keiffers puts a sign up for no guns then those for it will move on down the road. If a sign is required to allow guns then Keiffers can safely blend into the crowd and doesn’t ruffle any feathers. Kind of like the whole smoking ban thing. Prior to the statewide ban the fastest way for a bar to lose money was to post no smoking signs after the ban there was no impact.
As for myself i don’t stop at restaurants that have no carry signs. In my mind you are making your stand clear and i am choosing not to support you. Just as i choose not to donate to Politicians i don’t agree with, or buy music from groups i don’t like.
–Ron, what’s going on is that the Illinois Restaurant Association wants the change. Like was said before, your anecdotes don’t add up to data.–
So what is your data to support? Surely you have some proof that a restaurant is a death trap if someone with a CCW liscense comes in right?
- Mason born - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 2:26 pm:
Demo
I avoid places with No Guns signs even when not carrying for the reasons above. Just like when an artist takes a stand on an issue i have the right to not purchase music or materials with my cash. It isn’t fear for my life so much as my way of disagreeing with the statement. My cash my choice.
- Demoralized - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 2:28 pm:
@Mason:
It’s a free country. I think it’s a ridiculous reaction but it’s your money.
- steve schnorf - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 2:30 pm:
Many,many years ago I used to go to a dance hall out on the edge of San Antonio where there was a very clear sign at the entrance “Please check all guns and knives”: I had never seen anything like it before.
- wordslinger - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 2:34 pm:
–Ron, what’s going on is that the Illinois Restaurant Association wants the change. Like was said before, your anecdotes don’t add up to data.–
So what is your data to support? Surely you have some proof that a restaurant is a death trap i–=f someone with a CCW liscense comes in right?-
Data to support what? The Illinois Restaurant Association is on record as wanting the change. Ron talked to a couple of guys who “didn’t care” and said “that’s what’s going on.”
I know I didn’t write anything about “death trap.”
- Chicago Bars - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 2:53 pm:
To almost all customers & and CCW aficionados, there is no discernible difference between a Chicago tavern license with retail food license and a traditional incidental (restaurant) liquor license with retail food.
The silly 50% of sales from alcohol language is a needlessly complicated standard for operators and customers of all persuasions. From talking to fellow bar & restaurant people in Chicago, almost all are dreading dealing with people confused about the minutiae of local liquor laws & the concealed carry passions that flare up in the comments here & whenever reasonable adults discuss the issue.
But a ‘No weapons allowed’ sign will sure look nice next to those highly effective, and Chicago required, “Please depart quietly…” signs that taverns are already required to post.
- wordslinger - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 2:56 pm:
What Chicago Bars said.
No one’s ever seen anyone getting hammered at a restaurant table, or a restaurant bar?
What’s the 50% distinction supposed to prove, anyway?
- Just Me - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 2:57 pm:
This scene from Unforgiven is perfect for this issue this weekend.
(Gene Hackman plays a sheriff in a town that doesn’t allow guns, and Richard Harris plays an Englishman who is visiting town to kill Clint Eastwood and Morgan Freeman.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU2tCNUqxCY
- Mason born - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 3:01 pm:
Demo
I suspect that is because you are either ambivalent or disagree. Think of it this way if you walked into a restaurant that said we support Traditional Marriage would you feel comfortable giving them your money. If you aren’t that interested in the Gay Marriage debate pick your issue.
I believe law abiding citizens deserve the right to defend themselves and choose to spend my money with people that agree. I suspect you do similar with your money.
- Anonymous - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 3:01 pm:
@Word
=Seriously, how many people do you think will feel the need to pack a gun to go out to eat?=
You implied that people will choose to carry for the sole purpose bringing it into a restaurant. What you fail to understand is that people do not only travel to restaurants directly from their home. Some are already out and about doing business in their daily lives, and want to eat. You attempt to undermine argument by painting firearm owners as paranoid. It highlights your lack of any genuine argument.
- Anonymous - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 3:02 pm:
@word
=What’s the 50% distinction supposed to prove, anyway?=
There is a big distinction between going to the club, and going to Olive Garden. But you know this already.
- wordslinger - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 3:02 pm:
–..and Richard Harris plays an Englishman who is visiting town to kill Clint Eastwood and Morgan Freeman.)–
For shame! Sacrilege!
English Bob is there to kill, for money, the cowboys who cut up the girl.
Little Bill beats English Bob for violating the town’s check-your-guns ordinance.
Will Munny, Ned Logan and The Schofield Kid arrive after English Bob has been run out of town to kill the cowboys.
A lot more happens, lol.
The Last Great Western.
- zatoichi - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 3:14 pm:
Worked in bars for a long time. Regularly had customers with concealed weapons of all types. Almost never had a problem with that group. Can’t say the same with some other customers once the beer started talking. A sign will make little difference.
- Precinct Captain - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 3:14 pm:
==carry license holders being literally card-carrying good guys==
These killers were “card-carrying good guys”? Doubt it. Even challenged the numbers are sobering for CCW killers. Please drop the the CCW=choir boy schtick. A pure gun rights perspective is much more honest.
- steve schnorf - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 3:14 pm:
word, I hope only the “most recent”
- wordslinger - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 3:16 pm:
–Some are already out and about doing business in their daily lives, and want to eat.–
And in the course of doing their business, there will be plenty of places they can’t carry.
- steve schnorf - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 3:18 pm:
For instance, if there was no “Shane” for “Pale Rider” to be a remake of, the latter would be a pretty good western on its own, though I admit its pretty tough for anyone to try to fill Palance’s shoes
- steve schnorf - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 3:18 pm:
Wait-there would be no shoes to fill if there had been no Shane
- wordslinger - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 3:23 pm:
–word, I hope only the “most recent” –
Steve, I know Clint has said he’s done with the genre, sadly.
I’ve been meaning to see the Coen Bros’ “True Grit” but haven’t queued it up yet.
- wordslinger - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 3:28 pm:
–Wait-there would be no shoes to fill if there had been no Shane–
On the other hand, Shane’s shoes were filled with four-inch lifts. Or he stood on a box. Alan Ladd was about 5′6″.
- Just Observing - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 3:38 pm:
So, are there no other signs in Keefers (e.g., please wait to be seated, no smoking, you must be 21 to purchase alcohol, coat check, etc.)?
- RonOglesby - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 3:39 pm:
@Word
—
And in the course of doing their business, there will be plenty of places they can’t carry.
—
Actually, when I am out of Illinois (Ohio, Wisconsin, Indiana, etc) there are very few places that I CAN’T carry. I dont go to .GOV buildings much. I have visited a couple of customers that have no firearms signs, so I leave it in the car. But beyond that… Anywhere I eat, fill up with gas, stop at the hardware store or pickup truck parts…
You seem to think we run into gov buildings or bars daily. Not really.
- wordslinger - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 3:48 pm:
–You seem to think we run into gov buildings or bars daily. Not really.–
No, I was just pointing out that under the Illinois bill there are plenty of places you can’t carry when going about your daily business.
No need to wonder what I’m thinking. I put it in writing.
- wndycty - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 4:05 pm:
So essentially folks will be able to bring their guns to Chuck E. Cheese? Is that really necessary?
- Anonymous - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 4:07 pm:
=I spend time in and around the San Antonio Texas area, and signs against CCW are posted in a variety of establishments.=
Hmmmm…never been to Texas. How does the state define “criminal trespass” and how could that apply to a restaurant?
- Anonymous - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 4:09 pm:
=pretty tough for anyone to try to fill Palance’s shoes=
Loved Palance. What an amazing actor.
- VonKlutzenplatz - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 4:12 pm:
W,
1) Do you think nobody has one in there now?
2) Until they hurt somebody, why is it any of your business?
- wordslinger - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 4:20 pm:
–So essentially folks will be able to bring their guns to Chuck E. Cheese?–
Thankfully, I’m a few years removed from the Chuck E. Cheese scene, but the old one on North Avenue in Melrose Park was no stranger to guns, I’m sure, lol.
No one ever left a Chuck E. Cheese happy. The kids are crying because they’re wound up and don’t want to go and the parents are angry because they can’t believe they spent all that money on lousy pizza, watered-down beer and pop and brain-splitting noise.
- Chavez-respecting Obamist - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 4:22 pm:
I’m rapidly approaching the conclusion we need to send everyone who wants to carry for a psych evaluation before they are allowed to do so.
- Anonymous - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 4:37 pm:
What Chavez just said is probably the most frightening “conclusion” one could draw in this entire debate.
How little respect some of us seem to have for each other’s rights–unless it’s something obvious like a mass sweep of 18,000 people.
A shame we can’t see how the two “proposals” are similar in so many ways.
- Knome Sane - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 4:38 pm:
@John Boch = he will guarantee himself that some portion of his former clientele, as well as newcomers such as myself, will never grace his establishment==
Please, restaurant owners and managers, put up the “no guns allowed on premises” signs for the single reason that I don’t want to dine in the same establishment as John Boch.
- Knome Sane - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 4:39 pm:
=2) Until they hurt somebody, why is it any of your business?=
It becomes my business if my wife, son, daughter or self gets shot by some nudnick.
- wordslinger - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 4:42 pm:
=2) Until they hurt somebody, why is it any of your business?=
Kind of late then, isn’t it?
Prohibited places are recognized everywhere. It’s a matter of where you draw the line.
- wndycty - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 4:44 pm:
I would think twice before taking kids to an establishment in which people are allowed to carry concealed weapons.
- Precinct Captain - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 4:48 pm:
What Chavez/Anonymous talked about may lead to the next great legislative compromise. How about gunners get psych checks and all the social assistance people get drug tests? It’ll be quite a grand compromise, just like the founders intended!
- RonOglesby - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 4:48 pm:
@wndycty
—
I would think twice before taking kids to an establishment in which people are allowed to carry concealed weapons
—
Do you travel? even to Wisconsin or Indiana? Or hell Iowa, Mo, Minn. Michigan, Florida? if you have you have sat in plenty of restaurants where people could carry. Yet somehow you didnt freak out there.
- RonOglesby - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 4:50 pm:
@ Word
and what you put in writing makes little sense. Again, not many places off limits by law. Force of law for most property only comes into play when the owner or those controlling it post a sign.
- VonKlutzenplatz - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 4:51 pm:
Come on Word and Knome.
What the two of you do if your kid got hit by a car? “THERE MAY BE AN INCIDENT! IT MUST BE OUTLAWED!”
Are there stats showing a great increase in shootings with CC?
If not, you two are just as irrational as the guy who thinks he must have a gun when he crosses the border into Chicago.
Where did all the sane people go on this issue?
On one side, we have the people yelling “WE MUST HAVE GUNS OR TERRIBLE CRIMINALS WILL KILL US ALL!”
And on the other side we have people yelling: “IF GUNS ARE ALLOWED, WE WILL HAVE CC PERMIT HOLDERS ENGAGED IN MASS SHOOTINGS”
Calm down, people.
You probably don’t need a gun to come into Chicago.
And the guy from Westmont who brings his gun into Gibsons or The Chop House is really no danger to anybody.
Relax everybody.
- wndycty - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 4:52 pm:
Ron, you make a good point, but here is the deal: You guys won, you can carry you guns anywhere you please, and I am entitled to not like it and name the very places I would prefer guns not be carried, right?
- RonOglesby - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 4:53 pm:
@ Anon
—
I spend time in and around the San Antonio Texas area, and signs against CCW are posted in a variety of establishments. The wording usually includes something along the lines of violators will be arrested for criminal trespass.
—
Oh yeah? where? Because if actually read most of the signs they say “The UNLICENSED CARRY OF A HANDGUN…” I have property in San Antonio and Boerne. I am there 6-10 times a year and probably spend almost 2 total months a year there now.
Beyond certain gov buildings, there are few establishments banning handguns. Most will though, post the “No unlicensed handgun” signs which most non-gun people mistake for no-gun signs.
- Anonymous - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 4:53 pm:
=It’ll be quite a grand compromise, just like the founders intended! =
Captain, you should probably clarify that your comment was intended as snark. When it comes to rights, it seems that consistent application of same is a difficult concept for many.
- RonOglesby - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 4:54 pm:
@wndycty
sure, but I am just pointing out that those on the anti-gun (I assume you are one by your comments) make these remarks about how you would be fearful to take your kids into a place that allows guns. Forgetting that you have been to plenty of places that do, yet ignore those experiences for imagined bad things that will happen…
- wordslinger - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 4:55 pm:
Von, you wrote:
=2) Until they hurt somebody, why is it any of your business?=
I wrote:
Prohibited places are recognized everywhere.
The other conversation you’re having is in your own mind.
- wordslinger - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 4:59 pm:
–Again, not many places off limits by law. Force of law for most property only comes into play when the owner or those controlling it post a sign. –
Then no worries for you, lol.
- VonKlutzenplatz - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 5:04 pm:
Word,
How very precise of you.
Yes, I should have added “unless the establishment is on a list of banned places, in which case we have some precedent to suggest that lists of banned places do in fact pass constitutional muster in which case, as a citizen who seeks enforcement of all Illinois laws and perhaps benefits from same, it is your business.”
But since I wasn’t suggesting that we shouldn’t abolish the list of banned places, and instead was simply responding to the paranoia that guns anywhere will lead to chaos, I didn’t think it was necessary.
Good catch though! Since so many here are arguing that we should abolish completely the list of banned places, you raised an important point!
I stand corrected!
No, no, no. I SIT corrected.
No, that’s wrong too.
I sort of slouch, with feet up, corrected.
OK, that’s better. And now we can go back to discussing the irrational fear of people who do not want to see a gun at some steakhouse.
- wordslinger - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 5:17 pm:
Von, I’m glad you worked it out amongst yourselves.
But I think the issue is that the Illinois Restaurant Association wants to change the bill.
- Anonymous - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 5:23 pm:
=What Chavez/Anonymous talked about may lead to the next great legislative compromise. How about gunners get psych checks and all the social assistance people get drug tests? It’ll be quite a grand compromise, just like the founders intended!=
Not to beat a dead horse, but think about that next time your heart goes aflutter over the beauty of “bipartisanship.”
- VonKlutzenplatz - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 5:23 pm:
Interesting, Word.
Are you suggesting that each post should include a direct reference to the IRA?
Perhaps you can clarify that last comment because it sure seems like 1) Nearly all of my comments were directed at those who claimed there would be chaos if guns are allowed into restaurants, while it seems that you’ve gone down a few different paths in this thread.
Have you tried reading your own words, Word?
Here’s a hint — read your own stuff, and THEN post snide comments about others.
- Anonymous - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 8:24 pm:
RonOglesby - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 4:53 pm:
==Oh yeah? where? Because if actually read most of the signs they say “The UNLICENSED CARRY OF A HANDGUN…”==
I saw them posted at the market, restaurants, and shops and they included language “PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06, PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN)A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUB-CHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN.” And, usually included a statement about prosecuting as criminal trespass with fines, etc….
- Just The Way It Is One - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 8:26 pm:
Just like the old song, there just are too many “Signs, signs–everywhere are Signs!!!”
- RonOglesby - Monday, Jul 8, 13 @ 10:44 pm:
@Anon,
yes and yet you still did not invalidate my point. I own property there. I am there constantly. a vast majority of the signs, should you choose to read them, say “unlicensed carry”.
Yes a sign forbidding carry will carry the force of law… but to state to folks here in illinois that these are common is simply a lie.
- wordslinger - Tuesday, Jul 9, 13 @ 8:09 am:
Ron, what is the purpose of your Texas “unlicensed carry” sign? By definition, “unlicensed carry” would be illegal everywhere.