Rep. Hays’ blistering denunciation
Wednesday, Jul 24, 2013 - Posted by Rich Miller
* Rep. Chad Hays (R-Catlin) recently penned a magnificently blistering op-ed on Gov. Pat Quinn’s veto of legislative salaries due to the General Assembly’s inaction on pension reform. Let’s take it in pieces. First, the consequences…
Today the issue is pension reform. What will the issue be tomorrow in terms of threatening the people’s duly elected representatives? Will it be bullying them into accepting the temporary tax increase as permanent because the governor declares that to be the new “crisis”?
What would downstate voters think if the governor had decided to hold hostage your legislator until he/she came around to his way of thinking on the right to carry issue? The truth is that one can insert any issue here, from any political point of view, and the conclusion is still the same.
The precedent that this type of blackmail represents is reprehensible and has no place in the governance model held up as the gold standard around the world. […]
Even a fledgling third world republic would not allow a governor to shake down the people’s elected representatives. This type of heavy-handed thuggery might pass for democracy in some parts of the world (generally identifiable by the marching in the streets to overthrow the leadership), but not in the 104th District. The vote is not for sale, even when car payments begin to be missed. This is a Blagojevich-style circus stunt.
* The alternative bill…
There was absolutely no need for the Legislature to adjourn the spring session without a pension reform bill in place. Senate Bill 2404 would have passed the House with a veto-proof majority had the speaker called the bill. It had previously passed with 40 of the 59 votes in the Senate. […]
The notion that it is acceptable to hold legislators for ransom because they have serious concerns about the approach in Senate Bill 1 favored by the speaker and others is outrageous on its face. Scholars who have looked at that plan found it blatantly unconstitutional at worst and at best extraordinarily punitive toward retirees who did their part and played by the rules.
Regardless of the constitutional debate, the bill only received 16 of the 30 necessary votes in the Senate. Not a close call. Please do not confuse the speaker’s unwillingness to call a vote on SB 2404 with some newly discovered fiscal conscious. He presided over $2 billion in supplemental spending over and above the FY 2012/2013 budget this spring alone.
Critics suggested that SB 2404 would not save enough money. That is primarily because only one-third of the savings are sent back into stabilizing the system, largely due to the majority party favoring spending the rest on other initiatives. I suggest an amendment that rolls ALL of the savings from this concept back into the pension system.
* Media coverage of the governor’s veto…
How is it possible that the Midwest’s largest newspaper is silent on the matter of the bill favored by the majority of the House not being called for a vote, but issues an endorsement of a gubernatorial tactic that can reasonably be termed grandstanding by a desperate politician? I think I just heard Thomas Jefferson gasp.
That a publication as prominent as the Chicago Tribune would state on its front page that this tactic is appropriate is mind-boggling. The editorial board must be meeting at Mike Royko’s old table at the Billy Goat Tavern making decisions such as these in the early afternoon between refrains of “It’s Five O’Clock Somewhere.” I direct you to the Constitution and the concept of co-equal branches of government.
Sometimes political theater needs interpretation. There was a day when the media employed excellent investigative reporters who helped the public sift through the talking points and blather. Some still do (including The News-Gazette, with Tom Kacich), but many now have their own political agendas, or simply can no longer afford the veteran reporter who can decode the Springfield nonsense. In light of this painful reality, let me help.
The governor has established a pattern of sitting out the discussion on a myriad of issues, only to issue grandiose statements after the fact. He is remarkably unskilled in terms of navigating the legislative process and has few identifiable allies in the General Assembly; a strange and crippling combination for a chief executive.
He is, however, populist enough to understand that most media outlets will follow any shiny object without digging beneath the surface. He conjures up “they are not doing their job … don’t pay them.” No culpability for him as a leader, no call for even a single idea or creative thought. The media goes into a frenzy.
* Conclusion…
Leaders lead. Pretenders hide in the shadows and hold press conferences hundreds of miles from the Capitol. Unilaterally declaring in the fashion of a barfly on his ninth beer “don’t pay the bums” sounds great at the corner tap. Don’t confuse this with governing, governor. It more readily defines a grifter.
We are not for sale in the 104th District and have no earthly intention of being intimidated. The people themselves will retain 100 percent of the responsibility of deciding who will be paid to represent them at our Capitol. Not you.
Discuss.
- Spliff - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 9:54 am:
Hays should replace Cross. He is clearly more articulate and undestands the issue.
- LincolnLounger - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 9:59 am:
My God, it’s astonishing that came from the House GOP and the likes of Bill Mitchell and Adam Brown. It should be required reading by voters.
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:00 am:
Representative,
I owe you Cannoli. Well said.
Oswego Willy
- shore - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:00 am:
How happy are democratic legislators especially those whose only paycheck comes from their springfield gig going to be about supporting Quinn 2014 when they don’t get one in a month?
- Just Observing - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:02 am:
Well said Rep. Hays.
- AFSCME Steward - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:05 am:
Bravo, Bravo. Rep. Hays, please run for Governor.
- Been There - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:06 am:
Wow, that was great reading. This part also hits it on the head.
===That is primarily because only one-third of the savings are sent back into stabilizing the system, largely due to the majority party favoring spending the rest on other initiatives. I suggest an amendment that rolls ALL of the savings from this concept back into the pension system.====
This was exactly my thought while listening the debate in the senate on SB2404. I was just a casual observer to this whole debate but when Cullerton started talking about how to spend the savings it made me wonder why they didnt apply the savings to the problem.
- dang - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:06 am:
“We are the General Assembly, by gosh, argument nobody is going to tell us what to do, by gosh, because we were elected by the people!, by gosh, and our campaigns and seats are bought and paid for by corporations and unions, so don’t try to make us do anything!” the argument that he will use this tactic to raise the income tax is hilarious, not to mention the fact he didn’t use it for concealed carry. Hey, if pq is going to run against the GA, then he will have to expect some of these attacks, like rauol is making on him now, but fortunately for the governor the “people” of this state know the GA has no leg to stand on.
- Will Caskey - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:06 am:
Oh no not the 104th District
- Responsa - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:08 am:
Impressive commentary. But how many in IL will ever see Hays’ rant outlining some very important truths? Will a larger paper or blog pick it up, I hope?
- Carlos Danger F/K/A Chicago Cynic - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:08 am:
O U C H. Well said, and ouch.
- siriusly - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:09 am:
Very well written.
The first paycheck they will miss is due next Thursday, not next month.
- dang - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:09 am:
I know! Maybe the Governor could just snap his fingers and make the Speaker act!
- Formerly Known As... - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:10 am:
=== Please do not confuse the speaker’s unwillingness to call a vote on SB 2404 with some newly discovered fiscal conscious. He presided over $2 billion in supplemental spending over and above the FY 2012/2013 budget this spring alone. ===
A devastating couple of lines there.
Btw, it appears we just discovered where a solid $2 billion of the tax increase revenue just went for this year. Thanks for clearing that up, Rep. Hays.
In all, 10/10. Would read again.
Hopefully this is the first of many more to come.
- Cassandra - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:11 am:
Well done. I’ve never heard of this legislator before now, but the Republicans should build on this articulate editorial, which makes several important points, as they try to recapture the governor’s seat. Not that it won’t be a heavy slog, of course.
And AFSCME, which represents state employees across Illinois, should maybe reconsider their extreme Democratic bias. The ideas presented in this editorial are far more sympathetic to the pensioners’ position than what we’ve been hearing from many Democrats, including Quinn, lately. And, to be fair, from many Republicans.
- Nickypiii - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:11 am:
OMG! A Republican getting the truth out there. This is a great, well written synopsis of this completely manufactured issue. Keep it up! This guy makes Dan Biss look like a conservative Tea Party member.
- Yossarian Lives - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:11 am:
He is correct about the outrageousness of the governor’s stunt, of course.
I did find the tip of the hat to his local paper, the News-Gazette, amusing though…
- Just Observing - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:11 am:
=== Will a larger paper or blog pick it up, I hope? ===
Are you saying CapFax isn’t a large blog? Them’s fighting words.
- Anon - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:13 am:
Agreed…very well written
He would have my vote for Governor…
- Nuance - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:14 am:
I might be more sympathetic to Quinn’s action if he also stopped his own paycheck until the crisis is resolved. Now that would be populist!
- Norseman - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:18 am:
When I saw Rich’s phrase, “let’s take it in pieces,” I read the remainder expecting a typical goofy extremist comment to pop out. To my amazement, it didn’t. It was an excellent piece by the Representative. I’m unfamiliar with him and can’t judge his entire work on this one piece, but this shows promise.
- Abe the Babe - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:18 am:
“Coequal branch of government” cuts both ways, Chad. The gov has a constitutional right to line item veto appropriations which is only the end all-be-all IF the GA does not override.
The GA can have their “constitutionally” protected salaraies but they are going to have to vote to get them.
- Anon. - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:21 am:
==but fortunately for the governor the “people” of this state know the GA has no leg to stand on.==
Other than the constitution, you mean?
- Robert the Bruce - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:21 am:
==Will a larger paper or blog pick it up, I hope?==
Cap Fax certainly counts. And I believe a lot of the mainstream media follow it; how else would they get story ideas?
- Snucka - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:23 am:
I mean, I really don’t think that he heard Thomas Jefferson gasp.
- CircularFiringSquad - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:24 am:
We know “Five O’clock Somewhere” In fact we have seen Rep Hays yodel it more than a few times.
Please don’t insult the song by suggesting the Tribune is associated with it.
And please don’t suggest anyone at the CNG is an investigator
Other than that Capt Fax is correct Chad is a genius
- wordslinger - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:28 am:
It’s a Banana Republic stunt. The rabid howling of approval for it has been sad.
- Rando - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:30 am:
I’ll take it no one else a little creeped out by “my middle son and his lovely wife conceived and birthed a child in less time”?
- dupage dan - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:32 am:
I kept reading thinking I was gonna get to the part where the stereotypical extreme right wing rant bit would be revealed that would paint this guy as too far out there like so many other GOP screeds we have been exposed to - veering into the social/moral issues as sometimes happens. Or, something about killing puppies would pop up - that kind of thing. How positively stunning and appropos this piece is! It skewers all the power players in just the right way. Where has he been all our lives? Howsabout a “draft Hays for governor” petition?
- Formerly Known As... - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:34 am:
@wordslinger - which is the Banana Republic stunt in your eyes?
The Governor cutting off pay to legislators or the Representative penning the op-ed letter?
It’s not clear from your comment.
- Living in Machiaville - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:35 am:
‘Run him for Governor’ is a stretch but Rep. Hayes displays right-headed thinking on this topic and on the disfunction of the GA leadership in general. Tom Cross should step aside and allow new Republican leadership take hold.
- John Bambenek - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:35 am:
Nuance-
If I recall from the press conference Quinn said directly that he asked (or will ask) the Comptroller not to give him a paycheck until pensions are dealt with.
- Diogenes in DuPage - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:36 am:
Well said, Rep. Hays! Where has this type of Republican been when I look at my local ballot? (And it almost makes me want to move to Vermillion County.)
- Arthur Andersen - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:37 am:
Nicely done, Rep. Hays.
- Mason born - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:37 am:
Well said Mr. Hays. This should be litigated to prevent a future occurence. If PQ wins then it would be a good place for an amendment to the Constitution to prevent. The fact that the Speaker is using Quinn’s populist stunt in order to ram through his personal bill is chilling.
@dang
You seem to agree with Pq on this so a question. If it was Brady doing the same to the legislator with a Repub speaker in order to force through a bill you’re are not fond of would you think the same??
- Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:38 am:
This is a great op-ed piece. I like that Rep. Hays supports SB 2404 and acknowledges that retirees earned their pensions. The governor wants to punish legislators who have been more than willing to fix the pension mess. That’s childish, punishing the whole class for the misbehavior of one or a few students. My state rep signed onto SB 2404 after voting for SB 1, and Quinn wants to punish her also? That’s terrible.
- Endangered Moderate Species - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:39 am:
Finally, some common sense articulation from the GOP. Pols like Hays are a good sign the ILGOP still has a heartbeat.
- Centennial - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:44 am:
Amen Hays. A breath of fresh air.
- downstate hack - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:47 am:
This is a truly cognitive and articulate piece of thoughtful writing. Rep. Hays deserves credos and here’s hoping the Governor reads this.
- wordslinger - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:52 am:
DH, “credos?” Are you going for “kudos” or “croutons” there?
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:56 am:
===The GA can have their “constitutionally” protected salaraies but they are going to have to vote to get them. ===
And therein lies the rub. Lawyers I’ve talked with say this is an individual, constitutionally guaranteed right and you can’t force legislators to come up with three-fifths majorities to obtain those rights.
Of course, pensions are supposed to be an individual, contractually guaranteed right. Ironic, no?
- dupage dan - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 11:01 am:
=== - wordslinger - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 10:28 am:
It’s a Banana Republic stunt. The rabid howling of approval for it has been sad ===
I believe the level of support re the rabid howling of approval is reflective of a large portion, if not majority, of folks who were polled. What do you think that says about the electorate in Illinois, word? How does that bode for the future if such a sad stunt can garner such support?
- Obama's Puppy - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 11:07 am:
He has been on top of his game for a long time, count me as a big Rep. Hays fan from day one.
- wordslinger - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 11:12 am:
–@wordslinger - which is the Banana Republic stunt in your eyes?–
Generalissimo Quinn’s action.
Thanks, FKA, I can see now that I wasn’t clear.
- A guy... - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 11:12 am:
Nice first salvo Chad. It earns a substantial “well done”. Now follow it up with a solution to the crisis that caused this crisis. The reason this populist act of docking your salaries is so popular with the electorate (constitutional or not) is that people really do feel their legislators are short changing them on this. I thought it was a dangerous precedent when PQ did this. As time has gone on, I’ve become convinced he wouldn’t just substitute any issue and take this action. This one is unique, alone and separate. Chad’s remarks are spot on, no doubt. But there’s also no doubt “the people” are ready to hold everyone accountable to solve this one. A few legislators are blowing the bugle hard at the top of the hill, but there is no army behind them responding. Get this issue behind you now and get down to business.
- DanL60 - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 11:14 am:
I still prefer the GOPers who sit in the sideline and decry current events while not adding materially to any potential solutions. Some of them even have the bold audacity to hold teletownhalls, to express their deep concerns and disappointments in Quinn and Democrats, all while still offering nothing substantive themselves.
PS- this same rabid group supports SSM.
/sarcasm
- wordslinger - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 11:15 am:
DD, the voters are not always a bargain, either. Witness Blago’s re-election. That was beyond the pale.
- Joan P. - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 11:19 am:
@ siriusly - “The first paycheck they will miss is due next Thursday, not next month.”
Next Thursday IS next month. August 1, hard as that is to believe. Where did summer go?
- DoubleD - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 11:28 am:
This shows why I am proud to have Representative Hays as my legislator. He outlined exactly the views I have on this issue…how can we take any cry that the sky is falling seriously when the leadership spends more than it takes in and does not devote all of the potential savings to shoring up the pension system. The solution to eliminating my pension is not about fiscal solvency as much as it is a huge pot of money to divert to buy more votes.
I wholeheartedly agree it is time for the IL GOP look for new leadership…Tom Cross has not had the toughness to stand up the Commercial Club who uses ethically questionable tactics to manipulate public policy. In my opinion their objective is a business objective…to hell with everyone else as long as there is more money in their deep pockets.
Meanwhile, the Speaker seems to merely be concerned with keeping his grip on power…His actions and disdain for downstate Illinois just emphasize the argument for term-limits and the Illinois Democrats will not stand up to him. How else does a bill that would pass not even get called for a vote?
Maybe…just maybe…there is still a possibility for Illinois to work collectively to right this ship.
- Friedman - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 11:30 am:
At last a voice from the wilderness
- Abe the Babe - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 11:42 am:
==And therein lies the rub. Lawyers I’ve talked with say this is an individual, constitutionally guaranteed right and you can’t force legislators to come up with three-fifths majorities to obtain those rights.==
Ok, so why do they have to vote at all on their salaries if they are a constituional right? Would they get them if they hadnt passed any bill containing the salaries?
The reason they have to vote at all is because all expenditures must be appropriated for. And the Governor has an inherent constitutional right (responsibility really) to review each appropriation.
Allowing the Governor to exercise his constitutional right (the veto) while maintaining a legislative remedy (the override) is the only way to protect both branches’ rights. Not allowing a gubernatorial veto would deny one right over another.
- Cassiopeia - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 11:42 am:
I think there will be more similar denunciations of Quinn as time moves on. He is truly a phony and must go.
- Susiejones - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 11:45 am:
excellent op-ed piece that needs to be repeated in every newspaper in the state. Well said, Rep. Hays!
- Hyperbolic Chamber - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 11:51 am:
@ Cassandra –
You think AFSCME has “an extreme Democratic bias”?? Why do you think Madigan has had them in his sights for the past 3 years? Because they haven’t been on the program. Ask any suburban House target how much help they’ve gotten from AFSCME lately and you will find the answer to be “Zero.”
- Todd - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 11:57 am:
Good for Chad.
Next budget, i bet they lump the legislative salaries in the same line as staff.
But I could see this being the nuke option in Illinois politics. I am amazed Blago never pulled this one, given all of his stunts. The fact is the lone has been crossed. and once crossed, it is easy to go back and cross it again.
The next time Quinn or another Governor think they have a popular mandate or gong to ring and they want to throw their tantrum.
Most would not if they value their relationship with the legislature, but this guy doesn’t have one to begin with.
- Formerly Known As... - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 11:57 am:
=== Generalissimo Quinn’s action. ===
lol! I thought that’s what you meant but did not want to presume (or project) too much.
And thanks for that mental image. You know, the one now permanently seared into my brain.
- cod - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 12:01 pm:
Well stated, and principled, but before you cast a vote for Hays as governor, you might want to look at his past positions on issues. The best place to find data is not the incredibly convoluted State of Illinois site, it is at the independent group VoteSmart.org. It includes clearly presented information on voting records for individual bills, and ratings by various interest groups. Here is Chad Hays pages:
http://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/116699/chad-hays#.UfAEbeBIhC4
- Nuance - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 12:02 pm:
@John Bambenek. Thanks, now I must clean this egg off of my face:)
- Observing - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 1:19 pm:
I may have made this point before; we frequently bash public officials for constantly pushing their own self interests; now Quinn has pushed them into a corner to force them to solve the issue of the decade, so that their own self interests will be fulfilled. Wrong call, Gov.
- Precinct Captain - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 1:37 pm:
==How is it possible that the Midwest’s largest newspaper is silent on the matter of the bill favored by the majority of the House not being called for a vote, but issues an endorsement of a gubernatorial tactic that can reasonably be termed grandstanding by a desperate politician? I think I just heard Thomas Jefferson gasp.==
Does Clueless Chad know newspaper aren’t influential anymore? Heck, one only needs to read CapFax to know the Tribbies are as reactionary and factually wrong in their editorials as ever, in the best imitation of Robert McCormack.
Outside of the bizarre thinking that being “the Midwest’s largest newspaper” substantively means much these days, Hays’ editorial is aces.
- 47th Ward - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 1:56 pm:
If all it took was a salary cut to get some strong “truth to power” commentary from Reps like Chad Hays, Quinn should have done this years ago.
- CharlieKratos - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 3:04 pm:
For those of you saying, “this needs to be on more news sites”, MAKE IT SO! Share the article on any social media you have (Facebook, Reddit, Twitter, heck Myspace!), email links to any paper source you know. Saying that something should be seen is one thing, acting on that belief is another.
- facts are stubborn things - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 3:14 pm:
Where is MJM in defending the house as a co equal member of our republic? Where is MJM defending the constituion? He is in the same place he was when he pushed through SB 1. I beleive all memebers of the house should demand a vote on SB2404. SB2404 is the compromise bill.
- facts are stubborn things - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 4:11 pm:
@ Observing - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 1:19 pm:
I like the logic flow. He has almost made it more difficult. Now the legislature does not want it to appear that the Gov. move to cut saleries has magicaly made a compromise appear. I beleive the Gov. made it more difficult for the committee to come to an agreement.
- thechampaignlife - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 4:16 pm:
I’m surprised by all the praise for this commentary. There are several logical fallacies in his argument, however. Let’s take it in pieces.
“The tactic, however, has far-reaching and dramatic implications for the very foundation of our democracy.” This is a hasty generalization fallacy. Uncompensated representation does not deny representation nor does it substantially alter our democracy.
“The voters alone decide whether or not I am paid to be their representative, not the governor.” This is an incomplete comparison fallacy. Voters decide *who* gets paid. They don’t get to decided *if* they get paid.
“Today the issue is pension reform. What will the issue be tomorrow in terms of threatening the people’s duly elected representatives?” Classic slippery slope fallacy. And, again, uncompensated representation does not deny representation.
“The precedent that this type of blackmail represents is reprehensible and has no place in the governance model held up as the gold standard around the world.” This is a naturalistic fallacy. It appeals to populist sentiments that our democracy is the best and that quid pro quo (I vote for your bill if you vote for mine) is bad when it is what I call blackmail.
“Senate Bill 2404 would have passed the House with a veto-proof majority had the speaker called the bill. It had previously passed with 40 of the 59 votes in the Senate.” This is another incomplete comparison fallacy. Look to the same sex marriage passage in the Senate and failure in the House for why passage wasn’t guaranteed.
“How is it…silent on the matter of the bill favored by the majority of the House not being called for a vote, but issues an endorsement of…grandstanding by a desperate politician?” This is an ad hominem attack on both Quinn and the Tribune, changing the argument by a denying the antecedent fallacy with a little argumentum ad populum fallacy thrown in for good measure. The appeal to popular belief is that the bill would have passed. The denial of the antecedent says that if they didn’t endorse the bill they can’t endorse the pay veto but that isn’t true.
“I think I just heard Thomas Jefferson gasp.” This is a moral high ground fallacy.
“The editorial board must be meeting at Mike Royko’s old table…” Another ad hominem attack.
“I direct you to the Constitution and the concept of co-equal branches of government.” This is an argumentum verbosium fallacy. The general references to the Constitution and concepts are too broad to be evidence to support an argument.
“The notion that it is acceptable to hold legislators for ransom…” Again, a naturalistic fallacy appealing to his definition of ransom.
“Scholars who have looked at that plan…” This is an appeal to accomplishment fallacy. It does not settle the constitutionality question.
“Even a fledgling third world republic would not allow a governor to shake down the people’s elected representatives.” This is an appeal to common sense fallacy. It’s a fact that this happens in third world countries and he even says so in the next sentence.
“Then I would look right at the sergeant at arms and direct him to lock the doors until this is done.” This is a wishful thinking fallacy. It is the same grandstanding he accuses the governor of as well as a false imprisonment.
“To date, I am unaware of the governor articulating even an opinion on any plan.” This is an argument from silence fallacy. Although it helps in practice to pass legislation, the governor does not make the laws. That is the job of the “the people’s elected representatives”. His opinion only matters insofar as his ability to enforce the legislation or require a veto-proof majority.
I’ll stop there, but I could go on.
- facts are stubborn things - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 4:17 pm:
I actually beleive that SB2404 goes to far and is really quite an agreement that the house should have jumped on. You know, paying all benifits that have been legaly earned is the proper way forward period. Do all the legal changes such as change payment schedule, transfer cost to locals, tax pensions, etc. etc. Over two years ago there was a huge pension overhaul for new employees…perfectly legal and proper to do. The pensino issue is a real look into how moraly bankrupt the state of illinois is. I can not beleive we are even discusing changing retirement benifits for those already retired. For those that cheer at that idea, you will be next if the rule of law does not matter any more.
- Tom Joad - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 5:34 pm:
Calm down. When the first check isn’t in the mail, a lawsuit will be filed and the Court will order payment. Everyone relax.
- wordslinger - Wednesday, Jul 24, 13 @ 11:22 pm:
–Calm down. When the first check isn’t in the mail, a lawsuit will be filed and the Court will order payment. Everyone relax.–
Shame on you, Tom Joad.
Henry Fonda, John Carradine, Ward Bond and John Ford knew better.
What’s your problem, anyway? Taking a handle from Steinbeck’s hero to rationalize some authoritarian stunt?
I’ve defended Quinn on a lot of stuff for decades, but this stunt is ugly, stupid and selfish.
- Anon. - Thursday, Jul 25, 13 @ 8:33 am:
Abe the Babe @ 11:42 am
==And the Governor has an inherent constitutional right (responsibility really) to review each appropriation.
Allowing the Governor to exercise his constitutional right (the veto) while maintaining a legislative remedy (the override) is the only way to protect both branches’ rights. Not allowing a gubernatorial veto would deny one right over another.==
I’ve seen a number of these arguments, and they are simply nonsense. Constitutions have some procedural requirements for laws (such as Illinois’ “single subject” requirement), and failing to comply with those procedures can cause a law to be declared unconstitutional. But except for those cases, every single law that was ever declared unconstitutional was passed by a majority of the legislature and either signed by the governor or had the governor’s veto properly overridden. The fact that all the forms were respected doesn’t make the governor’s action constitutional, nor does ruling his action unconstitutional because it violates the prohibition of changing general assembly salaries in mid-term mean that he is being deprived of his power of line-item veto.
- In the know - Wednesday, Aug 7, 13 @ 3:55 pm:
In Vermillion County it does not matter if you are a Republican or a Democract, it is the most corrupt county in the US! Chad is part of the problem not a solution. Mr. Hays, you reap what you sow. It’s funny how people will rally around a politician because he said something bright. He has no action, just wants that paycheck because he has to account for the money coming in to his bank account. We the people should all watch how these legislators live after no paycheck. Betcha not much changes in their lives. They will keep their homes, cars and lifestyle. I get it though, we are all so desperate to believe in someone for a change…that is how desperate we really are.