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Today’s quotable
Thursday, May 8, 2014 - Posted by Rich Miller * Greg Baise from the Illinois Manufacturers Association….
Baise has told me this more than once and he’s pretty darned adamant about it. Whether he’s right or wrong is beside the point. The guy who runs one of the most influential biz groups in the state truly believes an exodus is coming. And Baise is not someone who regularly engages in hyperbole.
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- Befuddled - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 9:50 am:
Cue the boo birds.
- PublicServant - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 9:50 am:
Baise - We want to see a change, or we’re moving!
Us - Care to elaborate?
- RonOglesby - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 9:51 am:
its hard to start and do business here. Rules are setup with Allstate, ADM, Caterpillar in mind. Not Joe’s painting, Ron’s Auto Body, Kate’s accounting, Dina’s remodeling…
We want growth we have to keep smaller business people, and allow them an environment to grow and do business. ADM, Cat and Allstate types sure aren’t growing our working population.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 9:58 am:
“You know, we became the nominee not too long ago, and we’re working through a lot of homework and a lot of detail — but it won’t be too long” - Bruce Rauner, from the cited article above.
Ah! The “Royal ‘We’…” has returned. Make no mistake, this is Rauner’s Ego run amok. The plan will arrive when “We” say it will arrive. The more Rauner talks, the creeping in of his flaws come back.
To the Post,
The IMA is a group that points at spilled milk, screams about the milk, and it being spilled, but really adds very little to this in cleaning the milk up.
Choosing to complain about wanting something to change, is not being an instrument OF change, it just makes ya lazy whiners.
- in absentia - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 9:58 am:
Last week’s survey suggested people wanted to move away, now business leaders want to do the same thing. Dangerous territory for the state if you have both a business and a workforce ready and willing to go somewhere else.
- Obamas Puppy - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 9:59 am:
Yeah record profits and a recovering economy means we must strive for right to work and an assault on workers rights that is the way we “solve things”.
- Walker - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:00 am:
Ron O is right. The Chamber and other powerful business lobbyists favor giant companies over small businesses. And therefore so does the legislature. They get both the regulatory and tax breaks, and most fees and legal hurdles don’t bother them as much.
It’s bad in many ways, not the least of which is that small businesses are the growth and job creators. We’re making some progress on the entrepreneurial front, but established small businesses aren’t being helped much.
- Liberty First - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:00 am:
Wolf, wolf, wolf — what other state has a flat tax where 2/3rds of corps pay no state tax?
- Anonymous - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:03 am:
There are a number of medium sized business that are trying to grow and prefer to stay here, but feel the State is putting hurdles in front of them that are getting too high. The huge ones get breaks, but those trying to grow many times get the shaft because they don’t have the clout the biggest ones do. Many of these companies do a lot of business out of State, and own a lot of land out of State, so it’s not always an empty threat.
- dupage dan - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:05 am:
I read one response to the poll saying folks want to leave the state. The woman said she wanted to leave but her job, friends, family, hobbies, home, roots, plans, hopes and dreams made that difficult. But she was ready to go - right now….except for all that other stuff.
- Walker - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:06 am:
In Baise’s defense, the IMA is one of the better groups defining what would help, from infrastructure improvements, to Workers’ Comp reform, to support for trade, to Community College training in manufacturing skills.
Just because it doesn’t make the story, doesn’t mean they aren’t working the problems.
I often fall into the same trap.
- Mighty M. Mouse - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:07 am:
===And Baise is not someone who regularly engages in hyperbole.===
Probably only about every four years
- Secret Square - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:08 am:
“small businesses are the growth and job creators”
And they are the ones being overlooked — though this is likely a problem not unique to IL. When big companies move, or threaten to move, or decide to stay it makes headlines. If the state wins over a big company with 1,000 workers but loses 10 small companies with 100 workers, or 20 companies with 50 workers, what is gained?
- RonOglesby - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:08 am:
@dupage
I think all people, in all states have those types of stakes in the ground keeping them anywhere. And generally, friends, family, hobbies make it so even though you want nicer weather you wouldnt really want to live anywhere else.
I really believe that the place we are in with corruption, bad budgets, politicians that run this place like their own private toy, make them willing to say “Yes I want to leave” but am held back with that.
- Norseman - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:13 am:
The Indiana-based Illinois Manufacturers Association sounds interesting. Greg from Gary calling Mr. Legislator.
- dupage dan - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:15 am:
RO, exactly - I agree.
- VanillaMan - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:17 am:
There has been a divorce between those with a business capitalist mind and a liberal arts mind set. For a long time, we’ve entertained “objective” evaluations on the benefits of capitalism and business in our universities which have resulted in generations of college educated people who couldn’t run a lemonade stand, but could tell you about a thesis they wrote on the history of lemons.
Businesspeople are doers. People who regulate what businesspeople do are thinkers. We have reached a point where the thinkers think they know more than the doers.
Then there is a basic problem between greed and jealousy. The doers see the thinkers as jealous and the thinkers see the doers as greedy.
“I mean, I do think at a certain point you’ve made enough money.” says one of today’s popular thinkers. That statement was applauded by people who also value what thinkers contribute to society.
Doers don’t see profit as bad and thinkers have been told that profit can sometimes be bad and have college degrees to prove that they know this.
We have a lot of thinkers on CapFax. A lot of them see Illinois’ businesspeople as greedy whiners. They believe they don’t pay their fair share in taxes. They drink coffee so they think they know how to run a coffee roasting company. To them, the doers complaining about the business climate in Illinois just want more money to chase after the illusory “American dream”.
The thinkers are disconnected from the doers and don’t have enough respect or humility to listen to what the doers are suggesting that the thinkers do to help them grow their businesses. Worse, the thinkers are the regulators and the taxers - so they like being in control as much as they are, over the doers. The idea of relinquishing a bit of that control is a bad idea to them. The thinkers believe that the doers will poison their roasted coffee in order to make a larger profit, so those doers need the thinkers to prevent that from happening. The thinkers believe that they are the most important part of our society today and that there are many more doers that need to be taxed and regulated to make our society safer.
So read all the comments about how the thinkers believe Baise is just being silly. They believe they know more about what Baise knows, because they have a framed degree making them an expert thinker in something more important than running a business.
- RonOglesby - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:22 am:
This “saving Cleveland” vid talks a lot about red tape, unfriendly bus climates, etc. Its very informative. (See the sign controversy part) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xSesnJlFr0
- Wally - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:25 am:
Very well said VMan. Very well said!!!!
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:27 am:
===We have a lot of thinkers on CapFax. A lot of them see Illinois’ businesspeople as greedy whiners.===
I said lazy whiners. If your mantra continues to be about an exodus, no matter how successful, or hard working or being a. “Doer” they are, the arguments of the “Exodus” leading to “change must happen ” is being a lazy whiner.
I am excited that - VanillaMan - complains about a broad brush painting business people one way…while painting with a broad brush, those he claims are misunderstanding how smart everyone in business is.
Your complaining about characterization while characterizing the group you are slamming… is being a lazy whiner too.
Unless you have more broad brushes you want yo complain about others using a broad brush?
- Throwing Stones - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:28 am:
so based on your logic vm, rauner is a doer and deserves tax breaks and we need to lower the minimum wage to entry level jobs to create a better business climate to make him richer or what, he will go to mexico or Texas where the thinkers dont have as good education. yeah, that makes since.
- Todd - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:31 am:
A. Ouple of weeks ago i got to witness the Gov of mississippi trying to lure Illinois business to his state with free buildings, tax breaks anda better legislative climate.
Those are some hard things to simply turn down and the poaching of illinois biz continues
- RonOglesby - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:36 am:
The other thing of note is that we talk “Business Friendly” policies as if MJM or some gov can simply pass one law and everything will be fine.
The reality is that its the totality of the laws and mindsets that need to change. These are long term changes. The state could ENCOURAGE local, and county changes but the reality is that Joliet is easier to do bus that Chicago. Move west in the state and it would be easier than Joliet.
I think the state has a leadership role here, but cannot fix all the ills for business. But setting the tone would help as we know most of the pols (state and local) are all part of the same club.
- Demoralized - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:38 am:
==trying to lure Illinois business to his state with free buildings, tax breaks==
Businesses blackmail states all the time. If you give us free stuff we’ll be glad to locate to your state. I’m not in favor of the “highest bidder” scenarios.
- iaintcoonsey - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:43 am:
VM hits it on the head. The sad reality is that people with easily moveable assets will leave this state as it continues down the present path. This movement is already noticeable in the center of the state where business owners have moved to Florida. Contrary to what many espouse about the “great” benefits of Chicago, CEOs do not have to live in this state to direct their corporations.
- 47th Ward - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:44 am:
Please spare me the self-righteous lecture VanillaMan. Are you still a state employee? Does that make you a thinker or a businessperson?
My guess is you’re neither.
- Michelle Flaherty - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:45 am:
I haven’t seen Baise engage in this kind of hyperbole since he oversaw Gov. Thompson’s doomsday campaign to justify Big Jim’s income tax increase.
- Downstate - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:45 am:
Ron O at 10:36
You are absolutely correct. It’s not the regulations that are burdensome, as much as the regulators!
I’m involved in two different businesses (each more than 25 years old) that are battling with state regulators right now. In each case, state regulators have suddenly changed their interpretation of rules that we’ve been complying with since inception. (Even when national regulating agencies are disagreeing with them)
The last board room discussion for one firm was on moving to another state - not to avoid Illinois regulations, but to avoid Illinois regulators.
- Pete - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:48 am:
Choosing to complain about wanting something to change, is not being an instrument OF change, it just makes ya lazy whiners.
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“if we don’t make a drastic change of some sort, a lot of my members who can will move”
That sounds like a change. Manufactures don’t go into business to change government, pay taxes, or whine. They go into business to make great products that people need and to profit off of that expertise. Not every business owner wants to play politics. That’s Ron Oglesby’s point.
Sorry, Oswego Willy, but the statement that the Manufacturers have to be an instrument of change is way off the mark. Our elected politicians have to be the ones that reach out and talk to the businesses in the state and listen to their concerns. Otherwise, when that neighboring state picks up the phone or takes out that radio ad to start the conversation… that business owner will be more likely to call back.
Just because unions in this state are willing to be instruments of change, that doesn’t mean that businesses want to spend all of their profits hiring lawyers and lobbyists when there are greener pastures not that far away.
- Walker - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:50 am:
Oh, lay down the brush. Take a breather.
There are thinking doers, and doing thinkers.
And there are the terminally stupid no matter their education or career.
To buy into popular myths, especially on economics and business, is harmful.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:50 am:
===…that doesn’t mean that businesses want to spend all of their profits hiring lawyers and lobbyists when there are greener pastures not that far away.===
So, the IMA is a “social club”? lol
- VanillaMan - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:54 am:
This thinker has learned to respect the doers enough to let them continue doing, so I don’t have to. That means listening and believing them when they say they want out of our state and doing what little I can.
I’m not attempting to be self-righteous, just attempting to get the thinkers to think a little more modesty about how limited their expertise really is regarding business and how to run them in a state like Illinois.
- RonOglesby - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:55 am:
@Downstate
I have seen that also w/ the State EPA types. My family has been in the car business (autobody mostly) for year. Small shops. Watching how they interpret a rule/ change its meaning on the fly is hard. A big shop (dealer type) or franchise may be able to buy the more expensive equipment or pay lawyers to fight. But not the small guys.
And if the change costs 200K… well too bad. Go out of business. They literally dont care.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 10:56 am:
===Sorry, Oswego Willy, but the statement that the Manufacturers have to be an instrument of change is way off the mark…===
So these companies are willing to sit back and be “victims”? I keep hearing about all this business money being thrown around in campaigns, from groups like the IMA, to even hedge funders, to the US Chamber, so these participating, they are Dopes because you feel that they don’t need to be involved in change?
- Pete - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 11:02 am:
The IMA has been around since 1893.
It’s voluntary membership. It’s not a mandatory organization. If they didn’t exist, we would have no insight into the mindset of the manufacturers. Let’s put this simply. It’s an organization that pools it’s resources to protect their interests.
Are they active in pushing legislation?
I don’t sense that IMA wants to be an instrument of change. I don’t believe any such organization comes together to put legislation for… that’s the role of politicians.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 11:10 am:
===Are they active in pushing legislation?===
You may want to ask that of their Government Affairs arm. lol
===I don’t believe any such organization comes together to put legislation for… that’s the role of politicians.===
Really? Do these groups just get together to take tours of the State House?
You’re a bit naive. Good hearted, but very naive to what these groups are, and what they do in this process.
- Shark Sandwich - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 11:13 am:
I dunno, when I think “Doers”, I imagine people who don’t spend a lot of time complaining about why they can’t “Do”. They just “Do”. “Do” will either be ‘make things work in the existing framework & location’ or ‘move someplace else if it makes sense from cost/benefit’.
Of course the state could always do better to make the business climate more friendly to small businesses.
- JMA - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 11:19 am:
VM Freaking nails it!!! I’m a doer with more than one business in Illinois. The thing about doers is, they are also planners. I am planning my escape from this state. It won’t happen today, tomorrow or even next year. But, it will happen.
- JMA - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 11:19 am:
VM Freaking nails it!!! I’m a doer with more than one business in Illinois. The thing about doers is, they are also planners. I am planning my escape from this state. It won’t happen today, tomorrow or even next year. But, it will happen.
- VanillaMan - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 11:20 am:
You’re a bit naive. Good hearted, but very naive to what these groups are, and what they do in this process.
Do you even know Pete? How could you even write that?
- Walter Mitty - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 11:22 am:
I think this does give us pause. It’s not about us moving a business. It’s talking about many of the business owners on the south side industrial parks that are contacted weekly to move just across to Indiana. The owners do not have to concern themselves about an extra 20 minute commute to make their business more profitable. Unlike many of us, they don’t have the burden of roots. We’re stuck. The data we have and these comments should be noted. The big boys that get the tax breaks downtown are not the issue. It’s the medium and small businesses that would be devastating.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 11:25 am:
===Do you even know Pete? How could you even write that?===
I do not. Commenting as - Pete - did, and taking it as not a snarky Comment, I am very comfortable with my response;
If you comment as you honestly believe, then on how - Pete -, responded, yeah, I am find with my response.
- PublicServant - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 11:26 am:
If they weren’t making money, they wouldn’t be here, and if they move, that money to be made, will be made by someone else moving in.
- Small Town Liberal - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 11:27 am:
- Gov of mississippi trying to lure Illinois business to his state with free buildings, tax breaks anda better legislative climate. -
And every year I get the pleasure of witnessing Mississippi taking in 3 times as much federal money as they collect in taxes, while Illinois gets back half. Maybe a thanks is in order from Gov. Bryant for our assistance in paying for those freebies.
- VanillaMan - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 11:32 am:
I grew up on the South Side. The food and gas I grew up eating and being driven around on, were found two miles in Indiana, where those costs were cheaper.
When Section 8 housing began filling the 30-40 year old housing I grew up in, our old neighbors moved those two miles and became Indianans. Our church moved to Indiana. The jobs that my siblings had in Illinois - moved to Indiana.
I saw this happen. We need to respect and listen to what Illinois businesses are saying here. Illinois may have reached a point where when considered with other 49 states - we end up at the bottom. We can’t keep doing that.
- Downstate - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 11:49 am:
Ron O at 10:55
Exactly right. I’m seeing it play out across two industries in the very same way.
The one play by state regulators is literally shutting down the sole proprietor starting out as a sub contractor. These small businesses are the future large companies tomorrow. But the state REUGLATORS are doing their best to squash them.
- 4 percent - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 11:52 am:
I can tell there are a lot of deep thinkers today and I’d guess that a good majority have NEVER hired employees and met a payroll.
Let’s just take a quick look at a small number of items that employers are facing this year.
Minimum wage hike
paid family leave
soda tax
gas tax
unpaid family leave
numerous health care mandates
The IMA and other business groups submit ideas every year introduced as legislation. So they don’t simply whine - they try to improve the system.
- Keyser Soze - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 11:54 am:
Vanilla’s observations are spot on, and verified by the responses in this thread. Not mentioned is the basis for the gulf that divides the thinkers and the doers…..cognitive dissonance.
- Formerly Known As... - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 11:57 am:
== The IMA is a group that points at spilled milk, screams about the milk, and it being spilled, but really adds very little to this in cleaning the milk up. ==
A great description, but it seems slightly misdirected.
IMA represents over 4,000 manufacturers and hundreds of thousands of jobs. Those businesses and jobs generate a great deal of tax revenue for the state while operating within the law. Our legislators make the law and then divide that tax revenue as they wish.
IMA isn’t the Salvation Army, and we shouldn’t expect them to be. Nor did the IMA create these problems. If our state has problems or if the rules of the game need improving, it is the responsibility of legislators of both parties to address those problems and improve those rules.
The best thing the IMA can do for Illinois right now is be the IMA and keep driving jobs and growth as they have been. Meanwhile, legislators need to do their jobs and get their act together by keeping the IMA, Chamber of Commerce and everyone else in law and by addressing tax reform.
- Formerly Known As... - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 11:58 am:
“in law” should be “in line”. Scusi.
- Leave a Light on George - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 1:53 pm:
“There are thinking doers, and doing thinkers.
And there are the terminally stupid….”
Gee whiz. I don’t know which category I want to be labeled as.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 2:15 pm:
Willy:
unless i am mistaken, Mr Baise ran against
Mr. Quinn in 1990 for Treasurer.
In which case, any citation of Mr Quinn outta lrad
with “Mr Baise, a Republican who ran against Quinn in 1990 and got whipped like taters….”
- Ahoy! - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 2:29 pm:
Baise is absolutely right on this one and it’s not just business, it’s going to be people as well, they will have to move for the jobs.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 2:30 pm:
- YDD -,
Noted!
Too funny. Baise made it to the Finals, at least. Between Gidwitz and Pat Brady, Baise knows a General Election “feel”, which can be quite exciting…
- Wally - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 2:33 pm:
PublicServant———Have you always been on the public dole? Ever worked in the private sector? Ever owned or ran a business?
- VanillaMan - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 2:49 pm:
Ad hominem attacks against Baise is pointless. What he is quoted as saying is what we are discussing - not him.
Make your points count, do not waste them on the messenger.
- Norseman - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 2:52 pm:
=== Have you always been on the public dole? ===
Wally, have you always been a dope? Instead of denigrating someone’s profession, why don’t you try using rational arguments.
- Demoralized - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 2:59 pm:
==Have you always been on the public dole? Ever worked in the private sector? Ever owned or ran a business?==
Grow. Up.
- Oswego Willy - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 3:06 pm:
===Make your points count, do not waste them on the messenger.===
Says the guy who commented that those “Thinkers” …
- VanillaMan -, I was having fun on the Baise/Quinn history.
Mr. Baise, in the political, has earned his seat. Some dopey/comic comments here don’t detract from him. They don’t.
- Skeptic - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 3:08 pm:
“The thinkers believe that the doers will poison their roasted coffee in order to make a larger profit, so those doers need the thinkers to prevent that from happening”
Considering the current controversy over fracking, that seems an apt analogy, if counter to your point.
- Buzzie - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 3:31 pm:
Doers vs Thinkers? I look at people like Warren Buffet and Bill Gates and see individuals who are both.
- wordslinger - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 5:06 pm:
–“I think business owners in this state have really gotten to the point that they want to see a change. … I think the business community’s perception of this state (is) if we don’t make a drastic change of some sort,–
Don’t hide your light under a bushel, Greg. What are you talking about? Specifically? Take us back to the good ol’ days and how you ran things differently with the Jims.
Ron and others are right about the state tilt towards the multi-nationals and the Civvies. Read their annual reports. Those guys don’t pay state corporate income taxes. The only time they ever get involved in state matters is when they’re shaking DCEO down to “create jobs.”
Small business, that does its business in Illinois, pays the full freight.
By the way, is anyone paying attention to Sears? They’re liquidating, quite openly. Now you know why Schaumburg didn’t want to give them that tax break.
VMan, you’re not even in the ballgame. Save it for the dorm room. The day you take a risk rather than whiling away your day opining on the taxpayer dime, let us know.
- Cod - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 5:31 pm:
So CEOs hate Illinois, New York, California, Massachusetts, Connecticut, and even Hawaii, according to the CEO survey mentioned in another post. So where they move to, as they continually threaten?
I hear Kokomo, Indiana wants them, and will give them a real deal on taxes.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Thursday, May 8, 14 @ 11:15 pm:
VMan - there is nothing ad hominem about noting Baise has a political history with Quinn.
As for the statement: a recent report found nearly half of all US jobs are likely to be replaced by technology within the next couple decades. Manufacturing jobs, in fact, are disappearing with increased robotics. Ironic, eh?
Lots of people are complaining to Baise, could be true. But folks rarely call their association prez to say “I am awesomely happy, please do not lobby for any changes.”
That is not to say we do not have problems. Complex, serious and longstanding problems. It is a good time to be skeptical of those offering easy solutions.