51 Comments - anon - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 10:39 am: The millions Mariano’s has received to build grovery stores all over the City could better be put towards paying into the pension fund. Going to avoid shopping at the TIF welfare queen store. - North Shore Joe - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 10:42 am: Good unskilled jobs just frankly don’t exist anymore. Mariano’s doesn’t treat its people like Dominick’s or Jewel did back in the day. Working people were sold out in this country a long time ago. Guess we just have to get used to it. - VanillaMan - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 10:43 am: Can’t bring back the past - we can’t even keep the future from happening even with all the subsidies propping up the legacy companies suckling through their lobbyist connections. It is Willis Tower now. Chicago showcase real estate isn’t being owned by Chicagoans. Chicago banking isn’t being dominated by Chicagoans. For a supposed world class city, Chicago seems more similar to Kansas City, than to a real world class city like London. Yes. But it is only sad to those still living who remember it, right? - OneMan - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 10:44 am: At least my local one in Aurora is a union shop. - Levois - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 10:44 am: Are you saying this news isn’t worth jumping up and down with joy? Is this about the state money used to bring a Mariano’s store to this site? I think this is good news but the last sentence confused me. - Belle - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 10:46 am: It’s all beyond pathetic. It seems like we’re creating a worse version of halves/halves nots everyday. - anon - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 10:48 am: Mariano’s received $7 million in TIF funds from the City to build a grocery store in “blighted” Greektown across the street from a Dominicks which of course has now been driven out of the market. The Ravenswood project also received millions. Go cry to the courts about how the City and State are too broke to pay for pensions but can hand out these subsidies like candy. - Fed up - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 10:50 am: The vacant land that is being redeveloped is more than just the old US steel plant it goes from 79th st to 92nd from the lake to shouts shore dr. It is massive. This retail development on 87th st is small in the overall scheme. Those manufacturing and other high paying low skill jobs are gone. Education and developing a skill are the only paths to the middle class now. - wordslinger - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 10:52 am: At the end of WWII, the United States had half of the world’s manufacturing capacity. Japan, Russia and Europe were in rubble, most of the rest of the world was non-industrialized. That was the high point of heavy manufacturing. There was no place to go but down, unless you wanted to permanently keep your boot on the neck of humanity. It was quite a run, though. Iron ore from The Range shipped down to Chicago and Northern Indiana, steel to Detroit, Dearborn and Flint, and some way cool cars. Now, not so much steel in cars. The Gary Works still have their blast furnaces humming, as anyone who drives the Skyway knows. Not what it was, but it is what it is. Chicago steelworkers took a big hit for the rights of labor back in the day, too. http://www.illinoislaborhistory.org/memorial-day-massacre.html - Upon Further Review - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 10:52 am: Food deserts is a popular term, but does anyone remember what caused the major grocery store chains to pull out of these same areas years ago? If the taxpayers must subsidize these new grocery stores, what assurances do we have that the money will be repaid later on? What happens if the stores fail? Would a private bank have approved these risky investments? - OneMan - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 10:57 am: Mariano’s received $7 million in TIF funds from the City to build a grocery store in “blighted” Greektown across the street from a Dominicks which of course has now been driven out of the market. Ummm, no… All of the Dominicks went away, not just the one on Madison and Halstead. Also before that Dominics closed, a small WallMart went into PT just a couple of blocks away. Also the space that Dominics was ‘driven away’ from is going to become a Whole Foods… But thanks for driving by…. - Wensicia - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 11:00 am: The type of family once supported by a steel worker’s wages will be shopping at the new Mariano’s using a LINK card. It is sad… - wordslinger - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 11:02 am: – a Dominicks which of course has now been driven out of the market– Driven out of the market? By whom? They went out of business because of much more competition — Walmart, Target, Meijers, Whole Foods, Trader Joes…… - Bogey Golfer - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 11:11 am: ==I’m just not feeling like jumping up and down with joy, though.== Former facility employed 20,000 (families). New facility will employ 400 or so. And to get this, Mariano’s was given a subsidy. Yes, Rich while it’s something, it woefully short of what it needs in terms of job creation. - anon - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 11:12 am: If the neighborhood is sufficiently lucrative for a Whole Foods to open a store, why was Mariano’s given a TIF to build there? The only justification should be that, but for the TIF, no development would take place. Hardly a food desert when there was already a Dominick’s across the street. Do you think this is free money? Broach the idea of raising taxes to pay pensions and there is copious gnashing of teeth but a large wealthy corporation gets millions in subsidies and people think it is a grand idea? - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 11:17 am: It’s nice down in the East Side neighborood. Yes the neighborhood went down because of the closing of the steel plant, and there are gang problems (not as bad as other areas), but Calumet Park nearby is pretty nice, on the lakefront. I surely hope that area down there gets developed. There’s been talk of developing it for some time now. Someone told me that there are unacceptable levels of pollution in the ground at the former steel plant, but I haven’t verified or checked this out. - Arizona Bob - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 11:20 am: Rich, you’ll never be able to develop the most of the Southworks Sites because of the environmental problems there. For decades USS dumped some really nasty stuff right on the ground at that site,and the cost of remediation is prohibitive. The same goes for most of the old industrial sites on the SE side. I remember I once drove by the old Sherwin Williams site on 115th St some years ago, and a prairie fire had started. The field burned for weeks with some of the most interesting colored flames you’ve ever seen from all the different VOCs that were dumped there. Just part of legacy of USS and other manufacturing jobs being driven out of the steel business through a variety of union, industry, environmental and “cost of business in Illinois” issues back in the late 1960s and 1970s. Really sad. It could have been renovated and saved with a little bit of cooperation and mutual respect. - VanillaMan - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 11:24 am: Lets not forget that we had to find the ability to fight world wars during that time. I can’t imagine many people believing during 1943 that we ought to focus more on protecting any possible environmental impact than protecting America, as directed and demanded by the US government. - Arizona Bob - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 11:30 am: Word, my Dad was member of the USWA back then, and I remember those six month strikes by the unions who demanded a LOT more than fair raises and benefits, and couldn’t care less if the businesses were profitable of not for investors. The last laugh was on them. First the manufacturers left Illinois for the South, then left the South for overseas when the US EPA made the cost of manufacturing here prohibitive and overseas they’d let pollution and safety run wild. Compromise could’ve found ways for the industries to stay here, but the unions and the regulators took the approach of “do it our way or LEAVE!”..and they did. The same mindset carried over to Illinois gvernment after the industries left…and the same outcomes industry saw regarding excessive operating costs in their industries carried over to heavily unionized Illinois governments…financial insolvency and disaster. Those who refuse to learn from the crises of history are doomed to repeat them… - Beenthereseenthat - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 11:33 am: Just like Springfield with the new HyVee,. Nothing wrong with groceries stores, we need them. But the stores are not the solution to long term employment and economic development needs. Good point Rich. - Nonplussed - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 11:35 am: To quote Mike Ditka: the past is for cowards and losers. - 47th Ward - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 11:41 am: ===I can’t imagine many people believing during 1943 that we ought to focus more on protecting any possible environmental impact than protecting America=== Damn straight VMan. Of course, in 1943 few people realized the damage being done to our air and water because of common industrial activity. Now we know that things like lead and mercury and thorium are poisons and their use should be controlled. It’s called progress. - 47th Ward - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 11:42 am: ===Mariano’s doesn’t treat its people like Dominick’s=== The guy behind Mariano’s was the same guy who started Dominick’s. - North Shore Joe - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 11:43 am: It’s also very confusing as to why they are encouraging residents of impoverished areas to shop at overpriced grocery stores like WF and Mariano’s. I’ve heard rumblings of discounts only offered at those stores, which just makes me think people from Hyde Park and downtown will jump on LSD or the Ryan to take advantage of them, not the people from the neighborhood. - train111 - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 11:44 am: I wonder how the store will do. That area of the city almost has an eerie cut off from the world feeling with 1 or 2 blocks of streets west of South Lake Shore Drive with no buildings. - vise77 - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 11:54 am: “Lets not forget that we had to find the ability to fight world wars during that time. ” I doubt World War III would be as massively industrial as was World War II. - train111 - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 11:55 am: Also, a bit to consider–at it speak, there were 70+ integrated steel mills the size of the South Works operating in the United States. Today there ar 12. Mergers, shutdowns, foreign competition, domestic competition from mini-mills and so forth have cut into the industry immensely. None remain in Chicago. Arcellor-Mittal at Indiana Harbor and Burns Harbor, and US Steel at Gary still operate. - wordslinger - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 12:20 pm: – I can’t imagine many people believing during 1943 that we ought to focus more on protecting any possible environmental impact than protecting America, as directed and demanded by the US government.– I have no idea what that means. AB, you never cease to entertain in your own way. The link I provided was about unarmed steelworkers and their families seeking union recognition being fired upon by Chicago police as they approached the Republic Steel gates on Memorial Day in 1937. Ten were killed. How that sets you off on an ahistorical rant is perplexing. I’m pretty sure “doing business in Illinois” had very little to do with the decrease in U.S. steel production over the decades. - Fan of Cap Fax - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 12:24 pm: I love hearing you all talk about the Wisconsin Steel site. I have fond memories of that site. My company was on-site conducting asbestos/lead inspections for many months. I’m happy to hear that development is taking place. Back then we all thought there would be a casino built on the property. Before they tore the last structure down, I stood on the roof which provided a great view of Lake Michigan and the surrounding area. Spent a lot of time also in the underground tunnels where I swear to this day I turned a corner and there stood a steel worker in full gear. The locker rooms also felt alive with the past. I loved that place and felt privileged to be able to work out there. - train111 - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 12:36 pm: Fan of Cap Fax–This is the old US Steel South Works site along the lake that is discussed here. Wisconsin Steel was at 104th and Torrence. Much of that site remains vacant, however BP has constructed an asphalt distribution terminal over part of it. Wisconsin Steel’s dumping by IH to Envirodyne for no money–except that they had to pick up all the pensions, and Wisconsin Steel’s sudden closure with no notice and all the employees last paychecks bouncing are all stuff of legend however. - The Prince - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 12:37 pm: Never saw a post where everybody is right at the same time but articulating it in different ways. It will be interesting to see how long the store lasts. On TV last night there were promises of new schools, etc. We’ll see what actually happens. - Precinct Captain - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 12:41 pm: ==- VanillaMan - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 11:24 am:== What’s funny is that some people did realize that protecting the environment was important and they advocated for it. Why? They had just seen large swaths of American farmland rendered useless because of extremely poor environmental policy for years. One famous person who wrote about a book with a title suggesting a quiet vernal equinox even began their research into pesticides during these years. Besides that, what are some of you waxing poetic about the past advocating for, a massive government intervention in the economy to promote industrialization? That’s what WW2 and it’s post-war world was. It was also an ‘era of prosperity’ that locked out of millions of people from the spoils. - North Shore Joe - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 12:42 pm: ===The guy behind Mariano’s was the same guy who started Dominick’s.=== Old man Dominick started Dominick’s, not Bob Mariano. Bob was a protege/apprentice, yes. It’s a different day n age, I get it. I’m pointing out a fact that those 400 jobs don’t provide the standard of living that a similar job at Dominick’s in the 70’s, 80’s, and even 90’s did. - The Prince - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 12:48 pm: No jobs do anymore, Joe. We are doomed. OT: Will Bruce Rauner put all his assets in a blind trust if elected? Haven’t heard any discussion on said issue. - OneMan - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 12:51 pm: If the neighborhood is sufficiently lucrative for a Whole Foods to open a store, why was Mariano’s given a TIF to build there? The only justification should be that, but for the TIF, no development would take place. Hardly a food desert when there was already a Dominick’s across the street. Do you think this is free money? Broach the idea of raising taxes to pay pensions and there is copious gnashing of teeth but a large wealthy corporation gets millions in subsidies and people think it is a grand idea? Let’s take this one at a time… Well it doesn’t look like it went to them, it looks like it went to their landlord http://www.chicagojournal.com/news/07-13-2011/Chicago_approves_$7_million_subsidy_for_Mariano’s The building has other retail space in it as well and I think it is all occupied now. So if you are asking why the developer took tif money? I suspect because someone was willing to give it to them? But lets address the unhappy rant a bit a at a time… ===If the neighborhood is sufficiently lucrative for a Whole Foods to open a store, why was Mariano’s given a TIF to build there? == See above, they weren’t given a TIF the developers were. Big difference… Also the Whole Foods is replacing the Dominics, taking over the same space. ==The only justification should be that, but for the TIF, no development would take place. == Read the Trib article I linked to, that will explain why someone thought it was necessary to do the development. ==Hardly a food desert when there was already a Dominick’s across the street== Nor with WallMart just a couple of blocks away, don’t think anyone claimed it was a food desert. The Alderman mentions giving more grocery choices, but not that it was a food desert. == Do you think this is free money? == Guessing you are addressing this to me, no I don’t. == Broach the idea of raising taxes to pay pensions and there is copious gnashing of teeth but a large wealthy corporation gets millions in subsidies and people think it is a grand idea? == Well, read the Trib article, it was the developer who got the money, not the grocery store. Apparently at least one alderman thought it was a ‘grand idea’. So I am going to guess based off this comment that you have some sort of interest in a state pension program (full disclosure I have a small amount of service credit in the SURS system, about $100 worth or so now). I would suggest your question is better directed at the Alderman. - A guy... - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 1:26 pm: Before the economic collapse, the South Loop was growing by leaps and bounds. New development from the loop all the way past Cermak. It started with some lower property prices caused by a milder recession. Southworks could benefit the same way and really take off with a reasonable recovery. I am happy to hear this news about Marianos and others jumping in on a huge swath of land on the southeast side. There are some very cool opportunities there. The days of “jump up and down” projects might be over. Patience and endurance could produce some jumping though. - Fan of Cap Fax - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 1:39 pm: Thanks, Train, I should have realized that! But the memories came flooding back and the fingers took over before my brain caught up. - Going nuclear - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 1:41 pm: I have to agree with train111. The growth of mini-mills and electric-arc furnace technology were primarily responsible for the death of the integrated steel producers on the southeast side. Yes the environmental regulations played a role, but the local residents and steel workers were appreciative because they led to a cleaner community and workplace, especially at the coke ovens where workers were exposed to cancer-causing fugitive emissions. - jerry 101 - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 1:44 pm: –Good unskilled jobs just frankly don’t exist anymore. Mariano’s doesn’t treat its people like Dominick’s or Jewel did back in the day. – Every Mariano’s store I’ve been in, probably 5 or 6, have been unionized. I don’t know if the pay is where Dominick’s was at, but if I had to, I’d work for Mariano’s before Whole Foods. I’m also a recent full-time Mariano’s convert (from Whole Foods). Mariano’s is close enough to WF in terms of organics to win out over WF, especially since they’re cheaper and have a unionized workforce. Plus, I can buy a beer at my local Mariano’s when I’m shopping, which I can’t do at my local Whole Foods. Hurray Beer! - train111 - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 1:48 pm: Of the 12 reamining integrateds, US Steel’s Fairfield Alabama plant is scheduled to go to an electric arc furnace melting scrap metal–or minimill technology–dropping the list to 11 in 2017. Coke batteries are another story all together. What is left is lagacy. The environmental hurdles to start a new coke battery are enormous. When the LTV coke plant on the southeast side closed, there was a buyer–who had contracts to seel coke. Problem was that the plant was shut down, and to start up again, they would have to meet all the environmental standaards. They failed. Acme Steel also had a coke plant on the south side. Incredibly smelly place. Gone now. - Wumpus - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 2:12 pm: The fact that people can buy food and have jobs is good. The fact that these jobs are not as lucrative as steel mill jobs makes this news not as good. Still good though. - Shemp - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 2:44 pm: I have this suspicion most don’t understand how a TIF district works…. - VanillaMan - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 2:51 pm: Of course, in 1943 few people realized the damage being done to our air and water because of common industrial activity. By 1939, St. Louis was infamous for the days when the black coal smog was so bad you couldn’t see the sun. Folks there had already established air pollution control boards, seeking a workable solution to the air pollution. Additionally, the 1904 World’s Fair demonstrated the need for water pollution controls and St. Louis’ water had gone from dark brown to crystal clear just in time for the Fair. The Missionary generation were the first progressives and a lot of what we take for granted was set up and made possible by them over a century ago. One famous person who wrote about a book with a title suggesting a quiet vernal equinox even began their research into pesticides during these years. If you are suggesting Ms. Rachel Carson’s Silent Spring - you are off by 20 years. Americans made a number of cognizant compromises in order to fight all the wars of the 20th Century. They weren’t stupid. They were quite aware of all the toxin dangers surrounding them, as far as that information was available to them. Cynicism isn’t a recent phenomena. - VanillaMan - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 2:57 pm: OH - and the beloved Rachel Carson’s work was overwrought, poetic - but really quite flawed scientifically. She and Ralph Nader, they both meant so well. Her work is a classic on moral narcissism. She was wrong, but she felt in her heart that what she had to say was right, even though she recognized how she overdramatized it. Funny how we mock “Reefer Madness”, but not “Silent Spring”. I guess it depends on what you want to believe. - 47th Ward - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 3:00 pm: VMan, surely you see the contradiction in your comment at 11:24. On one hand, you praise massive government intervention in the economy to build the war machine, and on the other, you bemoan government intervention to regulate industrial pollution. Fighting fascism is good, fighting pollution is bad. Got it. - North Shore Joe - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 3:35 pm: ====It’s called progress.==== Uhhh… its called Outsourcing. - Wumpus - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 4:09 pm: - Shemp - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 2:44 pm: I have this suspicion most don’t understand how a TIF district works…. Not I said the Wumpus - Precinct Captain - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 4:40 pm: ==If you are suggesting Ms. Rachel Carson’s Silent Spring - you are off by 20 years.== Read what I wrote. “One famous person who wrote about a book with a title suggesting a quiet vernal equinox even began their research into pesticides during these years.” The key phrase “began their research…during these years [the WW2 years your earlier comment referred to].” And yes, I was referring to Carson. I did not say nor did I suggest she wrote the book during World War II. Again, read what I wrote. - Mama - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 7:45 pm: Big business bribe the state governments to gain whatever they want by stating they will move their company to another state or out of the country if the state or feds do not provide them with XY or Z or exclude them from XY or Z! FYI: Big business are treated well in IL. - Almost the Weekend - Thursday, Jul 10, 14 @ 10:03 pm: This article and thread is a sad reminder how decimated private blue collar workers/unions and the middle class have fallen in the past 30 years. - Arizona Bob - Friday, Jul 11, 14 @ 12:05 am: There were solutions to the environmental problems that could have been implemented in the 1970s if the unions had the government had cooperated for the greater good. Technology was developed to remove sulfur dioxides very effectively and baghouses and electrostatic precipitators could have been installed, along with electric arc furnaces for better efficiency if only the unions would agree to limiting raises and benefit increases to the cost of living and tax credits (or accelerated depreciation) would have been given for the clean air technology and modernization, That would’ve been far more effective than crooked TIF districts and special treatment on state and local taxes for politically connected companies threatening to leave. Back then policy was based more on “getting even” with the “rich” industries than nurturing them and keeping them here. Just another case of history repeating itself, as we’re doing the same things to drive the productive out of Illinois with tax policy today. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.